Why Nintendo Can't Wii-n With Wii!! [Archive]

View Full Version : Why Nintendo Can't Wii-n With Wii!!

ThaMaskedGamer

09-10-2007, 05:49 AM

Nintendo's Wii is flying off the shelves and will soon eclipse the 360! So, the console has a discounted price, while the other consoles have premium prices.

Nintendo is drawing tons of new people into gaming! That's good but are these people going to buy a lot of software? From the looks of things no. The 360 has sold twice as much software as the PS3 and Wii COMBINED!!!

3rd Parties MUST be successful on Wii! Wrong, there have already been many many hits on 360 not published by MS. The biggest 3rd party games like NCAA football, Madden, Spiderman etc, don't do nearly as well on Wii and never will. GTA4, COD4, UT, Oblivion, and games of this ilk simply cannot be made on the Wii, ever!! So what are 3rd parties to do? Stop progressing? Must games stop achieving higher levels of quality, simply to bow to Nintendo's vision? No! Do u think the best developers in the business, such as Infinity Ward, Valve, Bungie, Bioware, Epic. Do u think Id, who is readying their new graphics engine REMOTELY cares about the Nintendo Wii? Of course not!!

The Wii is Nintendo's thing. It can be successful, but it is off on a different tangent and different arc of videogaming. An arc that will in the grand scheme of things, in the long-haul, it is an arc that will just be a flash in the pan 5 years from now.

First of all modern cutting edge games are going to continue on, Wii is not going to change Halo3, Stalker, GT5, nor is it going to change consumers perceptions and receptions of those games. These games will define this era of gaming.

Nintendo has not been successful with a console since SNES simply because SNES was the best console period of that ERA, it was current tech, not retro!!

Well the Wii-mote is a true innovation! True and let's face it, this is the only thing the Wii has going for it. So what will happen with the Wii-mote? If the Wii-mote is the future of way of controlling games, then it will simply be the standard either late in the life of PS3 and 360, or the next gen systems. Just like all control innovations that didn't prove to be gimmicks became standardized! Once that happens Wii's only reason to be will be gone!

Nintendo never has to compete directly with Microsoft or Sony. They can be successful controlling cost and selling to a dedicated side market in a huge industry! But gaming as we know will continue rolling on, with or without Nintendo. Thank's to MS we have digital video/audio in consoles, we have hdd's, we have online gaming(thanks to Sega and MS). But these things are now standard from Sony and MS, doesn't matter that XBOX did it first. The Wii-mote or something similar will find its way into consoles, it won't matter that Wii did it first. But the one thing that will not happen is that gaming will regress to Nintendo's standards, that will never happen! The Wii won't lead this generation in software sales, and once the premium prices come down, the Wii won't even lead in monthly hardware sales.

Mochan

09-10-2007, 05:53 AM

ThaMaskedGamer

09-10-2007, 08:15 AM

Well what can I say I actually agree with almost everything you said.

You might have wanted to point out that while the Wii is leading the hardware sales right now, sales have slowed down a bit if I recall correctly, and that could mean something.

I'm not sure if Wii has overtaken 360 yet. On one hand I heard it did, on the other hand I heard it will eclipse 360 by December. Either way as long as Wii's are $250 and Elite's are what $450 and Japan continue's to refuse to buy 360, then Wii will overtake 360.

Gadfly2317

09-10-2007, 08:46 AM

Part of the post goes on to describe how Nintendo is ahead, selling hugely, and on and on, and then part of the post is trying to spin this somehow as "Nintendo can't win." Pretty funny stuff.

The software sales is the only thing cited here that's a factual plus for MS, but the software sales trajectory grows exponentially over the course of a consoles life. Year two is not simply 2x the software of year one. MS has had 2 xmas's to the other consoles one, and has much more software due to entering its second year. It BETTER have a large software lead. . . it would be almost mathematically impossible for it not to.

It doesn't mean anything. 360 is now in second place and Wii has tons of software coming. Some of these "new" gamers may not buy as many games as the "hardcore" crowd, but the"new" gamers are only a part of Nintendo's demographic.

You mention 360's failure to ignite in Japan, and that's just one of the reasons it will end up in third place globally behind Wii and Ps3.

So enjoy RIGHT NOW. MS's enjoyment of 1st place (due solely to launching first) is GONE, and its a mathematical certainty that as the Wii marches FAR past it in installed bas, that it will lose the software lead too. Globally for sure, but probably even in NA. And finally, 360 fanboys won't even have "second place" harware to brag about at some point in the not to distant future. Many early 360 adopters are hardcores, and more and more of them will pick up Ps3's too. And the TON of Ps2 owners who never bought an Xbox and who haven't made the jump yet to EITHER Ps3 or 360--you know they are waiting on a price drop and for certain key Sony titles.

360 has a great xmas '08 lined up with the might of Halo 3, and that will likely be its last hurrah before beginning its decline into third place.

Aylmer

09-10-2007, 09:06 AM

Gadfly2317

09-10-2007, 09:16 AM

Here is an argument maybe some of us recognize:

The Wii is #1 in harware sales this gen--one of the fastest selling consoles in history, loved by millions of gamers. And critics and the media have raved about the hardware, from hardcores like Matt Cassamania at IGN to mainstream outlets like USA Today and TIME (which called the free pack-in game Wii Sports one of "the greatest games ever made.")

#1 in sales AND a critical smash. . . the FACTS are on MY side, I don't have to argue with your silly "opinion." The Wii is the best gaming hardware of this generation, period, and thus the best (according to retard logic.)

Yep, as TMG said in the Halo thread:

Media Praise + Sales = Objective Reality

Everything else is just subjective opinion, right? I don't have to address things like graphics, HD output, quality of online service or anything. . . those aren't "real" issues they are just your opinion wah wah wah.

Yeah I thought so. TMG. Asshat. Owned. You can't have it both ways. So, either concede here, or march your dumb ass back over to the Halo thread and address the SUBSTANCE of Zilla's post, or forever be branded

COWARD!!!!!

Ludicrum

09-10-2007, 10:20 AM

Nintendo's Wii is flying off the shelves and will soon eclipse the 360! So, the console has a discounted price, while the other consoles have premium prices.

$250, historically speaking, is the standard price rather than a discount one. New systems have traditionally sold for at or around that price, with consoles selling for over $300 being considered over-priced. Need I remind you that the $400 (or around that) price tag for a 360 was (and still is for quite a few people) considered to be over-priced

Nintendo is drawing tons of new people into gaming! That's good but are these people going to buy a lot of software? From the looks of things no. The 360 has sold twice as much software as the PS3 and Wii COMBINED!!!

If Wikipedia is to be believed then Wii has the following million-selling games (Note: I didn't include Wii Sports, as it is a pack-in)

# Wii Play (4.49 million)[53]
# The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (3.61 million)[53]
# Wario Ware: Smooth Moves (1.82 million)[53]
# Super Paper Mario (1.25 million)[53]
# Mario Party 8 (1.03 million)[53]
# Rayman Raving Rabbids (1 million)[54]
# Red Steel (1 million)[54]

It's worth noting that the sales of Wii Play on this list are higher than that of Gears of War. So yes, I'd say people are buying Wii games. It's a common assumption that new or "casual" players don't buy games, despite the fact that the some of the top selling games of all times have a primarily casual following. (see Nintendogs, Brain Age, The Sims, etc).

I've tried searching for data to confirm or disprove your statement about the 360's total software sales, but could find nothing. However, it doesn't come as a surprise. After all, the 360 did have the benefit of a year-long head start. Saying that people on the other consoles don't buy games because the 360 has more software sales is tantamount to giving a marathon runner a one hour head-start and then saying that the other runners are slow because they can't out-distance the first person in their first 30 minutes.

3rd Parties MUST be successful on Wii! Wrong, there have already been many many hits on 360 not published by MS. The biggest 3rd party games like NCAA football, Madden, Spiderman etc, don't do nearly as well on Wii and never will. GTA4, COD4, UT, Oblivion, and games of this ilk simply cannot be made on the Wii, ever!! So what are 3rd parties to do? Stop progressing? Must games stop achieving higher levels of quality, simply to bow to Nintendo's vision? No!

Define "progress" please. From what I'm reading it would appear that you define it solely as a means of graphics. So long as a game as sharper textures, bigger and brighter effects, and overall looks better then that is progress. I do not think progress, in games or in anything, can be measured in such narrow terms. The "progress" I see here is developers finding ways to make corridors in FPSes look shinier.

I am not really arguing this point, though. Here I actually agree with you, for the most part. Games such as oblivion cannot be made on the Wii, due to its limited hardware. However, I would submit to you that just because the Wii doesn't have the hardware of the PS3 and 360 doesn't mean it has nothing to offer. Clearly it does, if its sales are any indicator.

And no matter what company a developer works for, they are "bowing" to that company's vision. Microsoft and Sony have just as much control over what comes and goes on their consoles as Nintendo does. The developers, in turn, "bow" to the publishers, who control what comes and goes in the games themselves. The majority of game ideas, even those beloved by the developers, get axed if the publisher thinks the idea will not sell, or even simply because the higher-ups don't like them.

If progress is to be measured by creative freedom, then there is too much censorship in the development process for that. Nintendo does not hold a monopoly on this, it exists everywhere. If you believe game developers to be progressive minds constantly seeking to further the innovations of games then you are mistaken. Some of them are like that, true, but by the end of the day they are only out to make a buck, just like everyone else.

Do u think the best developers in the business, such as Infinity Ward, Valve, Bungie, Bioware, Epic. Do u think Id, who is readying their new graphics engine REMOTELY cares about the Nintendo Wii? Of course not!!

Valve's Gabe Newell was quoted in an interview (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6967&Itemid=2) as saying the following:

“You can’t think of it [Wii] as graphics, CPU, texture bandwith scaling, you have to think of it as more fundamentally, and I think it’s more valuable. I think it’s more interesting than just graphics chip – CPU combination. It’s the machine I have at home. The fact that we don’t have anything in development on it even though it represents big opportunities as a whole, it’s an obvious hole in our strategy.”

Bioware is primarily a PC publisher who develops for Xbox due to its windows architecture. Bungie is a subsidiary of Microsoft Games Studios and couldn't make games for other consoles even if they wanted to, Id Software has expressed some interest in the Wii (http://www.cubed3.com/news/6961/1/id_Properties_Coming_to_Wii). Perhaps not as a platform for their next-gen games, but they have talked about working on some technology which they can license to Wii developers, and perhaps even bring some of their older brands to the console. It's not much, admittedly, but it's not the "we couldn't care less" attitude you described.

Nintendo has not been successful with a console since SNES simply because SNES was the best console period of that ERA, it was current tech, not retro!!

If you're talking about total sales, then that is true. However, Nintendo made a handsome profit off the Gamecube, which was about as successful as the original Xbox in terms of sales (their final numbers aren't that far apart).

The SNES at first struggled to outdo the Genesis, despite whatever tech it had. The SNES became dominant once it started getting fun games, which had little to do with tech as SNES games didn't really start pushing the limit of the hardware until the console's latter years.

Well the Wii-mote is a true innovation! True and let's face it, this is the only thing the Wii has going for it. So what will happen with the Wii-mote? If the Wii-mote is the future of way of controlling games, then it will simply be the standard either late in the life of PS3 and 360, or the next gen systems. Just like all control innovations that didn't prove to be gimmicks became standardized! Once that happens Wii's only reason to be will be gone!

And do you think everyone will un-buy their Wiis the very moment that happens? BTW, you must be the first person I've seen (outside of Nintendo fanboys) to say outright that the Wii-mote is NOT a gimmick.

Yeah, if motion-sensing becomes the next big thing then it will become standard. Like when analog sticks, rumble, wireless controllers (all things Nintendo made popular). I would point out, though, that Wii developers have the benefit of familiarity with this technology and by the time PS3 or 360 adopt it (assuming they do) they will have a learning curve ahead of them, which could result in a software slump as developers try to come to grips with it. Developers can't even use the PS3's sixaxis controls right, at this point.

Nintendo never has to compete directly with Microsoft or Sony. They can be successful controlling cost and selling to a dedicated side market in a huge industry! But gaming as we know will continue rolling on, with or without Nintendo. Thank's to MS we have digital video/audio in consoles, we have hdd's, we have online gaming(thanks to Sega and MS). But these things are now standard from Sony and MS, doesn't matter that XBOX did it first. The Wii-mote or something similar will find its way into consoles, it won't matter that Wii did it first. But the one thing that will not happen is that gaming will regress to Nintendo's standards, that will never happen! The Wii won't lead this generation in software sales, and once the premium prices come down, the Wii won't even lead in monthly hardware sales.

First off, thanks a lot for giving credit to Sega. Most people seem to conveniently forget the Dreamcast's foray into online gaming and talk as if the Xbox invented online games.

What you say is true. New innovations eventually become standard. That is the very nature of innovation. When new things become familiar, it becomes time to look for more new things. So no argument here.

What I do find a little confusing is when you say "regress to Nintendo's standards." I honestly don't know what you mean by that, so I won't comment on that specifically. If you mean in terms of game development, few companies have higher standards than Nintendo. Nintendo's people (especially Miyamoto) are well known for their perfectionist tendancies, hence the delays in game production that are so common for them, as they typically refuse to releae a game until it's "just so".

You probably mean something else, so I won't comment further.

Gadfly2317

09-10-2007, 10:30 AM

$And do you think everyone will un-buy their Wiis the very moment that happens? BTW, you must be the first person I've seen (outside of Nintendo fanboys) to say outright that the Wii-mote is NOT a gimmick.

Ludicrum, that was a great post, start to finish.

The Wii "gimmick" thing has been pretty much dying off for awhile, even in the non-Nintendo fanboy crowd. It's so blatantly not true that anyone continuing to use it pretty much destroys their credibility. There are plenty of real weaknesses in Nintendo's console and strategy to focus on; it's been nice to see people focus their arguments on things with substance instead of making themselves look ignorant by continuing to flog the "gimmick" fallacy.

theWacoKid

09-10-2007, 10:43 AM

The Wii is Nintendo's thing. It can be successful, but it is off on a different tangent and different arc of videogaming. An arc that will in the grand scheme of things, in the long-haul, it is an arc that will just be a flash in the pan 5 years from now.

Five years from now?! Could you be anymore of a gutless wienie with your predictions? I got news for you, enistein, five years from now, the 360 will be dead and fu#$ing buried.

Gadfly2317

09-10-2007, 11:11 AM

Five years from now?! Could you be anymore of a gutless wienie with your predictions? I got news for you, enistein, five years from now, the 360 will be dead and fu#$ing buried.

The post was filled with these kind of ridiculous things, but you nailed one of the most absurd. "Flash in the pan five years from now." A console generation is 5 years, basically. . a five year "flash in the pan" is a raging, unstoppable oil fire.

The mindless metallic whirring sound of TMG's posts are the sound of 22 inch chrome wheels with spinners, shoved up his ass sideways, and powered by the force of a tremendous flatulent wind. Kind of a cross between a pinwheel and a cancer patients trache-ring to create unnatural vocal chords for the orifice from which he chooses to speak.

Ptptptbbrrraaaaaap (Phew, wave hand back and forth in front of nose), spin clatter clatter spin, whhhhhirrrrrrrrrrr. I don't care how shiny the argument; talking out of your ass is still just talking out of your ass.

ThaMaskedGamer

09-10-2007, 11:21 AM

When I bought my PSP Lite yesterday, I stood there looking at the Wii and it's game line up. In fact I do this every time I go into a video game store. I am very interested in the technology, but there isn't one Wii title that would compel me to buy. There isn't even one that has me slightly interested. I agree with you, except I am slightly interested in Zelda, I would like to play that, but not nearly enough to buy the whole system. Even my kids are beginning to sour on the idea of getting a Wii, they both have DS'. Lately they have been asking for Guitar Hero 2(since it came out on 360), now they want GH3 or RockBand, and they want DDR and 2 dance pads for 360. On top of that, when one of my daughters found out Naruto was coming to 360 she flipped! And I just found out an Avatar game is also coming to 360, another cartoon she likes.


So I have to wonder about Nintendo's decision to focus on "the casual gamer". Long term, none of us can tell what that means for real, but a clue may be found in the recent history of Apple computer.

It's no secret that Apple is a portable music/multimedia developer/producer first, and a computer manufacturer second. That is a profound change that has only occured in the last two or three years and has many Mac users, including myself, feeling a bit flustered. Its funny how u make the analogy. I'm looking at it from the complete opposite perspective. I absolutely hated Macs and was a Windoze guy, lol. I use to be a PC gamer and couldn't understand why anyone would want a MAC. Now i'm just waiting for my laptop to give me another problem so I can have an excuse to go get an Apple. I don't use my PC anymore for anything other than music/multimedia(except games)/'net/paying bills. I use to build machines and buy computer shopper mags and go to PC shows, now I couldn't care less about PC hardware. I can't see myself ever buying a Windoze PC again, as you begin to feel leftout buy MACs! But I can see where the traditionalist mac user would feel that way.


I think gamers have to face the possibility, or even the probability, that Nintendo may follow suit. If the money is in old reliable kid-friendly franchises and new games aimed at the casual gamer, then that's where they are going to go. That's a big IF though. So far the money has only been there for Nintendo and not others. I think the best case scenario for Nintendo is that they grow the gaming market and it isn't a fad.

However it will be very easy for MS and Sony to steal Nintendo's thunder, I think. The controller can be adopted and nothing precludes the PS3 or 360 from producing great casual games, except creativity. But that is also a big problem on the Wii platform too. 3rd parties don't know what to do with the Wii.


I am no fanboy for any platform, but I am a gamer, and I would sure hate to see the big N follow the road paved by Apple.When I had my SNES there were tons of games on the system, modern games, though it wasn't a Neo-geo, SNES still won. There were no constraints and the system blew away everything. It was a current gen system with everything from Mario to Street Fighter. That was the last Nintendo console worth owning imo. Perhaps the N64, but I wasn't console gaming then. GC only survived due to a major price cut. Wii is a very closed platform with limiting constraints that have shut it out of certain genres. I can't take Nintendo seriously until they release a modern platform, it doesn't have to be the very best. I just don't see why Nintendo couldn't release a normal platform and as a publisher CONSTRAIN THEMSELVES.

ilnadmy

09-10-2007, 12:31 PM

Five years from now?! Could you be anymore of a gutless wienie with your predictions? I got news for you, enistein, five years from now, the 360 will be dead and fu#$ing buried.

Ooh ooh I want to make a prediction like TMG too! In 15 years, the Wii won't be selling so much! HA! Wii sucks!

Gadfly2317

09-10-2007, 12:40 PM

"Run, coward, Run!!!!" -- Sinistar

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/a/a5/225px-Sinistar_2.png

ThaMaskedGamer

09-10-2007, 12:59 PM

$250, historically speaking, is the standard price rather than a discount one. New systems have traditionally sold for at or around that price, with consoles selling for over $300 being considered over-priced. Need I remind you that the $400 (or around that) price tag for a 360 was (and still is for quite a few people) considered to be over-priced Which I why I think I said the PS3 and 360 are selling at PREMIUM prices, while the Wii is selling at a discounted price. By discounted I mean sub $300, which had been the typical launch point here in the states for a while. So Wii is selling cheaper than that, PS3/360 are selling even twice that! So yes Wii is doing well, but if PS3 and 360 cut their prices to $300 I think the Wii would fall to 3rd in terms of monthly sales. I think if Sony or MS were concerned about losing the generation to Nintendo we'd see more agressive price cutting.

But they are only concerned about losing to each other. They are both losing to Nintendo, though, but they aren't losing the generation to Nintendo. They are losing the ability to draw in non-traditional gamers. Now i'm mainly talking about the N.A. market, I have know idea how to read the Japanese market.


If Wikipedia is to be believed then Wii has the following million-selling games (Note: I didn't include Wii Sports, as it is a pack-in)

# Wii Play (4.49 million)[53]
# The Legend of Zelda: Twilight Princess (3.61 million)[53]
# Wario Ware: Smooth Moves (1.82 million)[53]
# Super Paper Mario (1.25 million)[53]
# Mario Party 8 (1.03 million)[53]
# Rayman Raving Rabbids (1 million)[54]
# Red Steel (1 million)[54] First of all Wii Play is primarily a pack-in when u buy an extra remote, am I correct? I mean u can't buy Wii Play without buying a remote.

Other than that I don't doubt those numbers. They reflect the problem with the console. Only first party stuff sells. These games are dramatically different experiences from RFOM, GEARS, COD4, Bioshock, Mass Effect, Assassin's Creed, Forza2, GT5. There is really no way to say that these games are in the same ball park as the set of games I just mentioned. The set of games I mentioned are the future of gaming, not this list of top selling Wii games. What set would you say represents the future of gaming?


It's worth noting that the sales of Wii Play on this list are higher than that of Gears of War. So yes, I'd say people are buying Wii games. It's a common assumption that new or "casual" players don't buy games, despite the fact that the some of the top selling games of all times have a primarily casual following. (see Nintendogs, Brain Age, The Sims, etc).First of all i'm not so sure Wii Play is a game in and of itself, isn't it a package deal? Second of all, I never said Nintendo couldn't sell software. Again it is 3rd parties that have a problem doing that on Nintendo's platform. And even Nintendo experienced last generation that they could barely keep a console afloat without 3rd party support or sales. GC sold well last gen too, but it would have died, in fact, Nintendo tried to kill it by dumping it at $99, they had no idea it would ignite a spark and breathe life into the GC. Are they going to do that again with the Wii? Because if 3rd party stuff doesn't start selling well, they are going to have to.


I've tried searching for data to confirm or disprove your statement about the 360's total software sales, but could find nothing. However, it doesn't come as a surprise. After all, the 360 did have the benefit of a year-long head start. Saying that people on the other consoles don't buy games because the 360 has more software sales is tantamount to giving a marathon runner a one hour head-start and then saying that the other runners are slow because they can't out-distance the first person in their first 30 minutes.No that is just the way you interpreted what I said. I don't know the reason why Nintendo has historically had problems selling 3rd party software. Look at Capcom's games on the GC, although they didn't do poor, they didn't do nearly as well as Capcom would have liked prompting Capcom to throw their support behind 360 this generation. And obviously the PS3 has just had games that haven't lived up to people's expectations and slow penetration of its hardware. I think PS3 will solve its own problems regarding selling software, Wii, I can't see it. A lot of companies are going to be pushing a lot of games to try and cash in on the system, I just think a ton of those projects will fail. Especially if they are projects to just cash-in.


Define "progress" please. From what I'm reading it would appear that you define it solely as a means of graphics. So long as a game as sharper textures, bigger and brighter effects, and overall looks better then that is progress. I do not think progress, in games or in anything, can be measured in such narrow terms. The "progress" I see here is developers finding ways to make corridors in FPSes look shinier.Well that's your experience then. I suggest you take a look at an article in Popular Science October issue talking about the advancements in gaming. It mentions a lot of advancements and highlights certain games like Lair(for water), Mass Effect(for facial animation), Assassin's Creed(for AI). It talks about things that are happening now in gaming that just weren't possible last generation. When I first played Forza2 it was the first racing game were I actually felt like I wasn't learning to play a game, i was just driving. There have been plenty of articles written about the tire physics used in that game. Progress is what you choose to see. I know that you see a lot of progress in the Wii's controller that u feel might make it next gen. I get that, but that's not where the industry is going. There wasn't one Wii game mentioned in the article. I've seen a lot of progress in the nextgen and I know a lot more is coming. Just looking at Forza2 for example in addition to the great physics and AI in the game, there are online user options that give u an insane amount of control and flexiblity in setting up games and races. Artists can create unimaginable cars using the editor in the game. When we look at nextgen progress, I look at all of these things, I think other people are looking for PIXAR. Those are the graphic whores.


I am not really arguing this point, though. Here I actually agree with you, for the most part. Games such as oblivion cannot be made on the Wii, due to its limited hardware. However, I would submit to you that just because the Wii doesn't have the hardware of the PS3 and 360 doesn't mean it has nothing to offer. Clearly it does, if its sales are any indicator. The argument that this is early in the generation cuts both ways. First of all in terms of software sales and I think it will be real interesting to see what the total yearly sales are for 2007 when all is said and done. I think it will be really revealing to see what kind of year 360 had. But yes this is early in the nextgen still, people say that usually as a dig toward MS. Last generation GC got off to a good start, but then died in the middle of the generation. It had the same problems Wii is having now. If it doesn't solve those problems I think it is gonna run out of gas just like GC did. 360 has a lead, XBOX had to penetrate the market as a new comer, 360 has the MOST 3rd party support, XBOX started with NO 3rd party support, online gaming was new for consoles, now its status quo and 360 is the leader, XBOX had unknown franchises now that's no longer the case. From this year to last year 360's software got stronger. PS2 was the market leader and had a number of weak years after year 2. 360 is not going to have a letdown next year. And PS3 has no where to go but up.


And no matter what company a developer works for, they are "bowing" to that company's vision. Microsoft and Sony have just as much control over what comes and goes on their consoles as Nintendo does. The developers, in turn, "bow" to the publishers, who control what comes and goes in the games themselves. The majority of game ideas, even those beloved by the developers, get axed if the publisher thinks the idea will not sell, or even simply because the higher-ups don't like them.No u are getting the wrong idea. What I mean is the amount of flexibility the platform allows, not creative decisions. U can't make a Forza on Wii, u can't make Assassin's Creed on Wii, u can't make Warhawk on Wii, you can't make COD4 on Wii. For these reasons the actual gaming market is going to go on without Nintendo. All Nintendo can hope to do is cultivate this non-traditional market, but the non-traditional market is NOT going to become "THE" market. This non-traditional market is going to get bored with gaming, this is why it is a gimmick or a fad, you guys are fooling yourselves if u think grannies and women are going to be hardcore enough to support the industry. The Wii is a trend for them and will end up in the closet or at garage sales after the fad wears off.


If progress is to be measured by creative freedom, then there is too much censorship in the development process for that. Nintendo does not hold a monopoly on this, it exists everywhere. If you believe game developers to be progressive minds constantly seeking to further the innovations of games then you are mistaken. Some of them are like that, true, but by the end of the day they are only out to make a buck, just like everyone else. I'm not disagreeing with you here.


Valve's Gabe Newell was quoted in an interview (http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6967&Itemid=2) as saying the following:

“You can’t think of it [Wii] as graphics, CPU, texture bandwith scaling, you have to think of it as more fundamentally, and I think it’s more valuable. I think it’s more interesting than just graphics chip – CPU combination. It’s the machine I have at home. The fact that we don’t have anything in development on it even though it represents big opportunities as a whole, it’s an obvious hole in our strategy.” Well, last I looked they don't have any games on it. Nor do they have any visions or inspirations at the moment. But they do see the opportunities, what great business wouldn't? The problem is they will go and try and make a game without having a true creative inspiration for the Wii. And this represents the genesis for 99% of the games we are gonna now see for the Wii. And on top of all that, even if u do have a genuine inspiration for a game, u are limited by the hardware's constraints. In Valves case, they have NEVER had to work with this kind of constraint since Half-life 1.


Bioware is primarily a PC publisher who develops for Xbox due to its windows architecture. Bungie is a subsidiary of Microsoft Games Studios and couldn't make games for other consoles even if they wanted to, Id Software has expressed some interest in the Wii (http://www.cubed3.com/news/6961/1/id_Properties_Coming_to_Wii). Perhaps not as a platform for their next-gen games, but they have talked about working on some technology which they can license to Wii developers, and perhaps even bring some of their older brands to the console. It's not much, admittedly, but it's not the "we couldn't care less" attitude you described. Come on, u know what I mean. I'm not talking about who owns the IP or the license, i'm talking about the type of game. Ubisoft made Red Steel for Wii, but they are making SC5 for 360 and Assassin's Creed for PS3/360. I wonder why not the Wii, because they cannot! They can do a cheezy watered version, I think Wii is getting some form of Brothers In Arms. But it also got a Farcry too, look at how that turned out.


If you're talking about total sales, then that is true. However, Nintendo made a handsome profit off the Gamecube, which was about as successful as the original Xbox in terms of sales (their final numbers aren't that far apart). Actually Nintendo made a handsome profit despite posting losses from the Gamecube itself. Nintendo actually lost money on the Gamecube friend.


The SNES at first struggled to outdo the Genesis, despite whatever tech it had. The SNES became dominant once it started getting fun games, which had little to do with tech as SNES games didn't really start pushing the limit of the hardware until the console's latter years. Yeah I just posted something about the SNES. U think the Wii is going to be as successful as the SNES? When I was playing SNES it had the BEST games, period. U can't say that about Wii, that's the problem. It is definitely true that the Nintendo didn't have to have the most tech, but this is decidely low tech approach that they purposely chose to take. Wii simply cannot make comparable games to 360/PS3, while SNES games were the best.


Yeah, if motion-sensing becomes the next big thing then it will become standard. Like when analog sticks, rumble, wireless controllers (all things Nintendo made popular). I would point out, though, that Wii developers have the benefit of familiarity with this technology and by the time PS3 or 360 adopt it (assuming they do) they will have a learning curve ahead of them, which could result in a software slump as developers try to come to grips with it. Developers can't even use the PS3's sixaxis controls right, at this point.First of all 6axis was knee-jerk brainless attempt. Second of all, i'm not so sure the industry is sold on Wii-mote. I'm sure behind closed doors a whole bunch of companies from Microsoft to Logitech are reverse enginnering Wii-mote and looking at what it does well and what it doesn't. If that tech is righteous we will see it standardized in some way. But I think the jury is still out on that. Thirdly, u say Wii developers have the benefit of familiarity? Well certainly Nintendo does.


First off, thanks a lot for giving credit to Sega. Most people seem to conveniently forget the Dreamcast's foray into online gaming and talk as if the Xbox invented online games.

What you say is true. New innovations eventually become standard. That is the very nature of innovation. When new things become familiar, it becomes time to look for more new things. So no argument here. Yup good old lil Dreamcast.


What I do find a little confusing is when you say "regress to Nintendo's standards." I honestly don't know what you mean by that, so I won't comment on that specifically. If you mean in terms of game development, few companies have higher standards than Nintendo. Nintendo's people (especially Miyamoto) are well known for their perfectionist tendancies, hence the delays in game production that are so common for them, as they typically refuse to releae a game until it's "just so".

You probably mean something else, so I won't comment further. What I mean by regress to Nintendo's standards is that the overall industry's path has not been moved the slightest bit off of its axis by Wii's relatively early success. Id software is preparing its new engine, an engine which won't be compatiable with Wii. A ton of games are being made from the Unreal Engine. LucasArts are doing their thing with Artificial Intelligence that will be featured in the next Indiana Jone's game. Ubisoft is doing their AI thing which is gonna be seen in Assassin's Creed. Everyone is going to be pushing gaming to the limits of what the PC/PS3/360 can achieve, regardless of what the Wii does. Here is why? If the Wii goes on to sell 30 million or 50 million consoles based of Wii-mote controlled casual games, then all MS or Sony or PC developers have to do is adapt that technology nextgen and have UBER consoles and PCs with Wii-motes. Now they can make GEARS OF WAR 4 and a cute casual game too. Either way, Nintendo's vision of less complex, less graphically intense games, won't change the industry's march toward increased processing power.

Oh Nintendo hasn't cornered the market on creativity, storytelling, and definitely not originality. I mean Wii-play isn't shakespeare and Metroid and Zelda aren't really the most creative things i've seen this generation. Zelda is much moreso impressive than Metroid imo, but still. And finally technology and creativity don't have to be at odds the way Nintendo thinks.

ThaMaskedGamer

09-10-2007, 01:13 PM

The Wii is Nintendo's thing. It can be successful, but it is off on a different tangent and different arc of videogaming. An arc that will in the grand scheme of things, in the long-haul, it is an arc that will just be a flash in the pan 5 years from now.


What I mean by this is IF Wii is successful for the duration of this generation, then that is just one generation. The Wii-mote will become standardized and Nintendo, unless they innovate something else that turns out to be successful, will have lost its one advantage. Nintendo will be forced to make current hardware in the future or keep innovating its azz off! I don't think there is a doubt in anyone's mind that if it wasn't for the Wii-mote, the Wii would not be nearly as successful as it has been. What happens when that pillar is gone? Remember, that is IF, Wii is successful for the whole generation and if Wii-mote is actually not a gimmick. I'm not sold on it yet myself. I have to see someone else make successful games using it.

folken001

09-10-2007, 01:22 PM

As TMG completes ignores Trebor's thread and comes up with this BS, this thread looks completely like some kinda of retaliation. A bad one at that still. It'd be hard for anyone to try to make a case saying how Wii is going to do poorly when it's beating its competition right now. Wii has already outsold 360 in total and is pulling away seeing as how poorly 360 is doing in Japan. How is it that TMG feels that Wii is going to fail but 360 is going to succeed? I think scientists should have a look at TMG's brain. It's like an UFO, no one knows how it works.

Glockstar

09-10-2007, 01:32 PM

360 is now in second place and Wii has tons of software coming.

Oh boy, here we go. :rolleyes:

"Tons of software coming"...? Like what?! Super Smash Bros, and Mario Galaxy, and...?

Of course, that's twice as many games as the 360 is getting, right? Yep; there are no more games coming out for the 360! None! Well, not when you look at the 360 release schedule - as it was represented in Nintendo Power, anyway.

Get some perspective! Or I'm going to start calling you thelastgadfly.

-

BTW, you must be the first person I've seen (outside of Nintendo fanboys) to say outright that the Wii-mote is NOT a gimmick.

Yeah, if motion-sensing becomes the next big thing then it will become standard. Like when analog sticks, rumble, wireless controllers (all things Nintendo made popular). I would point out, though, that Wii developers have the benefit of familiarity with this technology and by the time PS3 or 360 adopt it (assuming they do) they will have a learning curve ahead of them, which could result in a software slump as developers try to come to grips with it. Developers can't even use the PS3's sixaxis controls right, at this point.

The Wii "gimmick" thing has been pretty much dying off for awhile, even in the non-Nintendo fanboy crowd. It's so blatantly not true that anyone continuing to use it pretty much destroys their credibility. There are plenty of real weaknesses in Nintendo's console and strategy to focus on; it's been nice to see people focus their arguments on things with substance instead of making themselves look ignorant by continuing to flog the "gimmick" fallacy.

The Wii-mote is a gimmick.

Tell me what it's good for?

I'll tell you what it's good for: Party games. Simple FPS's. And simple sports games. Maybe. Pretty much anything that's kept simple, or dumbed-down. In other words, it's good for gaming simpletons and/or casual gamers.

In other words, it's not good for much.

What isn't the Wii-mote good for? Squad-based FPS's; Tactical FPS's; multi-player FPS's (think you'll ever see parties at people houses, like what you used to see with Goldeneye and Halo, with Wii-mote-controlled shooters?!) Fighting games. Racing sims. Sports sims. Pretty much any game that's more... complex; pretty much any game that would appeal to the more hardcore gamer.

For these, traditional controllers with dual-analog sticks are far more useful; and far more preferred.

Take Tiger Woods golf... dual-analog sticks are still the best method of control - they're still the best for swing simulation.

So... the wii-mote, with it's limited functionality, is a gimmick.(!) Some games it's great for. Some games it's absolutely no good for. And for a lot of games, it's just neither here nor there.

So why the frack make a whole system centered around it?! Why not just release it as a peripheral?

Why indeed. I think all of us know.

folken001

09-10-2007, 01:35 PM

So what? What's ur point? Wii will be in trouble in FIVE years? Nintendo is winning but can't win? Is that what ur conclusion is?

Here is some perspective. Resident Evil Chronicles > Halo 3.

trebor

09-10-2007, 01:39 PM

The Wii-mote is a gimmick.

Tell me what it's good for?

Graphics are a gimmick.

Tell me what they're good for.

ThaMaskedGamer

09-10-2007, 01:56 PM

trebor

09-10-2007, 02:08 PM

VGCHARTZ.COM has stats on year to date sales of hardware and software.
<a href="http://vgchartz.com/ayearly.php?year=2007">YTD Sales</a>

First a few things about the hardware. Wii has sold 11.3 million worldwide/4.5 million US.
The 360 has sold 10.8 million worldwide/6.9 million US. The PS3 4.5m world/1.9m US.

So the Wii has overtaken the 360 worldwide, but is still getting smoked in the US. On top of that the Wii is getting beat in Europe too. Japan is Wii's saving grace, actually, Japan's shunning of 360. So yeah 7 million 360s and 4.5 million Wii's, 360 here in the states, they are at 3.7m to 3.4m for Europe with 360 winning.

In terms of software if u break down the U.S. charts for 2007 and 2006 360 is indeed killing both systems. If u take away Wii-play, it is much much worse for Wii. I still can't get a definitive answer about Wii-play, is that a stand-alone product or something packed in only with the Wii remote?

3rd parties are doing horribly on Wii as well. I can't wait to see the numbers after XMAS!

Wii
3.56M Japan
4.58M America
3.17M Others
11.30M
42.5%

360
0.44M Japan
6.96M America
3.42M Others
10.82M
40.6%

Um, you mean to tell me that even with a year head start, the 360 has only a 1.5 million unit lead over Wii in the States and a paltry 300k in Europe? And you're bragging about it?!

My prediction - the Wii overtakes the 360 in all 3 territories by the end of year, Halo 3 will suck, and TMG will drink lots of Mountain Dew.

theWacoKid

09-10-2007, 02:24 PM

Wii
3.56M Japan
4.58M America
3.17M Others
11.30M
42.5%

360
0.44M Japan
6.96M America
3.42M Others
10.82M
40.6%

Um, you mean to tell me that even with a year head start, the 360 has only a 1.5 million unit lead over Wii in the States and a paltry 300k in Europe? And you're bragging about it?!

My prediction - the Wii overtakes the 360 in all 3 territories by the end of year, Halo 3 will suck, and TMG will drink lots of Mountain Dew.

First off, as I've pointed out, vgchartz is not a site that I would use for accurate numbers. The wii has outsold the 360 each and every month this year and done so handily according to the npd. Yep, getting smoked allright. I don't think the wii will catch the 360 this year. It will pass the 360 in europe this year.

theWacoKid

09-10-2007, 02:44 PM

NPD sales for 2007

Month --Xbox 360 vs. Wii sales
January 294k vs. 435k
February 228k vs 335k
March 199k vs 259k
April 174k vs 360k
May 155k vs 338k
June 198k vs 382k
July 170k vs 452k

Totals and monthly average

Xbox 360
1.418million Monthly average 203k

Wii
2.561million Monthly average 366k

About the only thing smoking is TMG's brain which has obviously shortcircuited. Cal the fire department.

Aku

09-10-2007, 03:42 PM

Raw numbers are fine, but it still comes down to who's looking at them. Hardware sales are important to Nintendo. If they can outsell 360 2-1 selling a console that plays mostly party games, and mostly games published by Nintendo, that's great for them. But if the market that is buying all these consoles only buys a fraction of the games that a 360 or PS3 owner buys, then it's bad for the third party software companies.

ThaMaskedGamer

09-10-2007, 04:20 PM

Here is some data real quick from Video Game Chartz.

Software Sales YTD.............360..................WII.......... ......PS3
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.........................................18.3m.... .........15.4m...............6m

Software Sales Total
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
.......................................... 44.3m............ 20m..............7.5m

So this year, before the Fall season, 360 is going in with about a 3 million unit lead. Of course, after the fall season, this will increase. The bottom row shows that since launches, 360 is actually 10m shy of doubling up PS3 and Wii combined. The question will be will 360 YTD sell more software than PS3 and Wii combined?

Top 50 Games YTD 360 (13) WII (10) PS3(3)

Some interesting tidbits. Of Wii's 10, 2 of those games are Wii sports and Wii play! From what I can tell, those come packed in with the remote. Of the Wii's 10 top 50 games, only 3 were 3rd party, they came in at #36 EA's Tiger Woods 375k, #39 Capcom's RE 353k, and #43 Ubisoft's Rayman 327k! So no 3rd party this year even came close to 500k units on the Wii!

The 360 has 10 3rd party games in the top 50! The 2 highest are at #6 Activision's Guitar Hero 2 at 1.2million, #7 EA's Madden at 1.2million. So far MS's lowest 3rd party game is Spiderman at #37 with 372k! MS is killing Nintendo in 3rd party software. It just isn't even close. And this is before the best 3rd party games are even released.

By the end of the year(when like 75% of the software is actually sold), with all the killer apps coming, these numbers will skew even more to 360's favor.

The question will remain can Nintendo alone keep the Wii afloat for an entire generation? Gamecube couldn't, is the Wii gonna drop to $99 too? I'd really like to see a top 50 list without the handhelds! Also these software numbers are only from the US market.

folken001

09-10-2007, 04:31 PM

Yes, comparing wii to gamecube makes total sense. all bow to almighty TMG.

ilnadmy

09-10-2007, 06:41 PM

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y199/ilnadmy/cardancenin2.gif

They seem like winners to me.

Ludicrum

09-10-2007, 08:01 PM

Good God! *shields eyes*

The horror ... the horror ...

ThaMaskedGamer

09-11-2007, 05:02 AM

Yes, comparing wii to gamecube makes total sense. all bow to almighty TMG.

GC got off to a pretty good start too. If u think about, year one, Nintendo is shooting off their whole load. Zelda, Metroid, Mario Party, Smash Brothers is coming, they are firing off everything they have this first year. How fast can they reload? Without 3rd party providing good games, Nintendo is going to have a hard time keeping Wii afloat by themselves.

Plus, even when u get a good 3rd party game, like Resident Evil, it still sells like crap. RE has only moved about 300k units since release?

Mochan

09-11-2007, 05:20 AM

I don't think that Nintendo can reload fast enough. It depends on the 3rd party support from hereon in. Despite its "innovations" the Wii will go the way of the Cube if they can't get the 3rd parties to give them real support.

folken001

09-11-2007, 05:56 AM

GC got off to a pretty good start too. If u think about, year one, Nintendo is shooting off their whole load. Zelda, Metroid, Mario Party, Smash Brothers is coming, they are firing off everything they have this first year. How fast can they reload? Without 3rd party providing good games, Nintendo is going to have a hard time keeping Wii afloat by themselves.

Plus, even when u get a good 3rd party game, like Resident Evil, it still sells like crap. RE has only moved about 300k units since release?
As good as Wii? The difference of the two are so far away from each other, it's like heaven and hell. and, when it is like that, I don't see how any comparison can made between the two.

While I agree with the fact that Wiimote is somewhat a gimmick, I also have to say that a lot of people who bought one weren't hardcore either. They aren't exactly difficult to please. if anything Nitendo is having the least problem among the three and you somehow worry about them before you do with M$.

ThaMaskedGamer

09-11-2007, 08:08 AM

As good as Wii? The difference of the two are so far away from each other, it's like heaven and hell. and, when it is like that, I don't see how any comparison can made between the two.

While I agree with the fact that Wiimote is somewhat a gimmick, I also have to say that a lot of people who bought one weren't hardcore either. They aren't exactly difficult to please. if anything Nitendo is having the least problem among the three and you somehow worry about them before you do with M$.

No its not like heaven and hell. GC, PS2, and XBOX were all $300. Wii is not only cheaper than GC it is twice as cheap as the PS3, and $200 less than a 360 Elite. As we have seen with PS3's spike due to its $100 temporary price drop, consumers are very sensitive to price.

I see a tough '08 for Nintendo. Wii won't see another Zelda, Metroid, Super Smash Bros for a while. What's next year gonna bring? Luigi's Mansion 2? Nintendo is gonna have trouble reloading, do you have a Wii?

I'm not worried about 360 because if things get too slow all they have to do is cut the price. But even u know there will NOT be a lack of games on 360. For PS3 '08 is do or die for Sony. I would have never believed they could have conceded two XMASes, but it seems like at this point they can still recover. But if they don't turn it around next year, its over!

With GT5, KZ2, MGS4, UT, GTA4 PS3 can't go wrong. Even if the multiplats have serious issues compared with the 360, like Madden or something, this is still a pretty good line-up. Even i'm interested in GT5 since it is a whopping 16 players online with in-car cockpit views!!! To hell with the AI who cares if they fix that when u can race 16 players online! That's one thing Forza2 didn't provide. There is also a new wheel out that is compatiable with PC, it has force-feedback on the PC, but I don't know about the PS3 version. Hopefully Sony's deal with Immersion will result in force-feedback, and rumble on the PS3 this year. And hopefully Sony get's around to a real lasting price-cut! Add in other multiplats like DMC4 and RE5 there really is no way PS3 can have a bad '08.

Time is NOT on the Wii's side.

trebor

09-11-2007, 08:43 AM

No its not like heaven and hell. GC, PS2, and XBOX were all $300. Wii is not only cheaper than GC it is twice as cheap as the PS3, and $200 less than a 360 Elite. As we have seen with PS3's spike due to its $100 temporary price drop, consumers are very sensitive to price.

Actually, the GC started at $199.99. So, like usual, you are WRONG!

theWacoKid

09-11-2007, 09:37 AM

Actually, the GC started at $199.99. So, like usual, you are WRONG!

Is there any videogamer as clueless as TMG? What a retard.

Gamer From '78

09-11-2007, 10:06 AM

VGCHARTZ.COM has stats on year to date sales of hardware and software.
<a href="http://vgchartz.com/ayearly.php?year=2007">YTD Sales</a>

First a few things about the hardware. Wii has sold 11.3 million worldwide/4.5 million US.
The 360 has sold 10.8 million worldwide/6.9 million US. The PS3 4.5m world/1.9m US.

So the Wii has overtaken the 360 worldwide, but is still getting smoked in the US. On top of that the Wii is getting beat in Europe too. Japan is Wii's saving grace, actually, Japan's shunning of 360. So yeah 7 million 360s and 4.5 million Wii's, 360 here in the states, they are at 3.7m to 3.4m for Europe with 360 winning.

In terms of software if u break down the U.S. charts for 2007 and 2006 360 is indeed killing both systems. If u take away Wii-play, it is much much worse for Wii. I still can't get a definitive answer about Wii-play, is that a stand-alone product or something packed in only with the Wii remote?

3rd parties are doing horribly on Wii as well. I can't wait to see the numbers after XMAS!

I noticed nobody wanted to answer your question about Wii Play, so here goes.

Wii Play is bundled in a box with a Wiimote for $50. Take away the $40 for the stand-alone cost of a Wiimote, you are looking at a game for $10.00.

I don't see how somebody could count the Wii Sports and Wii Play games in software sales, given that one is bundled in with the system and the other is bundled with a controller.

That would be like Microsoft bundling in a game with an Xbox 360 Wireless Controller for $60. Oh wait...they did something like that with Windows and Internet Explorer and were sued for being anti-competitive and forming a monopoly. :eek:

Renzatic Gear

09-11-2007, 11:04 AM

What isn't the Wii-mote good for? Squad-based FPS's; Tactical FPS's; multi-player FPS's

You and TMG have both said this. So I've gotta ask WHY you think the Wiimote isn't good for any of these games?

I've played an FPS with the thing for a good solid 20 hours, which is something you and TMG have yet to do. So explain it to me. Tell me why it isn't a good controller for those types of games? Tell me why I'm wrong.

Some interesting tidbits. Of Wii's 10, 2 of those games are Wii sports and Wii play! From what I can tell, those come packed in with the remote. Of the Wii's 10 top 50 games, only 3 were 3rd party, they came in at #36 EA's Tiger Woods 375k, #39 Capcom's RE 353k, and #43 Ubisoft's Rayman 327k! So no 3rd party this year even came close to 500k units on the Wii!

I can tell you right now thats wrong. Both Red Steel and Rayman have been advertised, BY MULTIPLE SOURCES, that they've passed the million mark. RE4 has been touted by Capcom as selling "far beyond expectations" at 800,000 units. Which isn't bad for a 3rd port.

So far there is absolutely no proof that 3rd parties are doing poorly on the Wii.

theWacoKid

09-11-2007, 11:40 AM

Plus, even when u get a good 3rd party game, like Resident Evil, it still sells like crap. RE has only moved about 300k units since release?

Capcom thinks otherwise, but what the hell do they know, amirite? They just make the game, you the masked moron knows all.

Capcom stock hits five-year high, boosted by Wii
Sep 11th 2007 2:25PM
Filed under: Nintendo Wii, Business

Capcom's shares on the Tokyo Stock Exchange rose to 2,855 yen at close today, the publisher's highest close since September 26, 2002, according to Bloomberg. The stock has risen 14 percent in the last two days and 33 percent this year.

The good fortune has been attributed to sales of Resident Evil 4 for the Nintendo Wii, which is selling well worldwide, and expectations that the publisher's annual sales will rise 11 percent as it doubles the number of Wii titles it releases to six. Much of the increase, Bloomberg implies, is attributed to Capcom's vocalizing support for Nintendo's console.

Yeah, Capcom sure sounds pissed and disappointed with sales on the wii, cancellation of wii titles confirmed, sell your wii now while its still hot.

TMG, do yourself a favor and STFU already, owning your sorry ass isn't even fun anymore.

ThaMaskedGamer

09-11-2007, 01:01 PM

I noticed nobody wanted to answer your question about Wii Play, so here goes.

Wii Play is bundled in a box with a Wiimote for $50. Take away the $40 for the stand-alone cost of a Wiimote, you are looking at a game for $10.00.

I don't see how somebody could count the Wii Sports and Wii Play games in software sales, given that one is bundled in with the system and the other is bundled with a controller.

That would be like Microsoft bundling in a game with an Xbox 360 Wireless Controller for $60. Oh wait...they did something like that with Windows and Internet Explorer and were sued for being anti-competitive and forming a monopoly. :eek:

That data is counted for some reason, if u take away those titles you are talking about 4 million units sold, the Wii's top 2 selling titles and a combined 5 million of Nintendo's 15 million software units sold. So YTD Nintendo has sold 10 million units compared to 360's 18 million. And we still have XMAS to go.

ThaMaskedGamer

09-11-2007, 01:18 PM

You and TMG have both said this. So I've gotta ask WHY you think the Wiimote isn't good for any of these games?

I've played an FPS with the thing for a good solid 20 hours, which is something you and TMG have yet to do. So explain it to me. Tell me why it isn't a good controller for those types of games? Tell me why I'm wrong.

I can tell you right now thats wrong. Both Red Steel and Rayman have been advertised, BY MULTIPLE SOURCES, that they've passed the million mark. RE4 has been touted by Capcom as selling "far beyond expectations" at 800,000 units. Which isn't bad for a 3rd port.

So far there is absolutely no proof that 3rd parties are doing poorly on the Wii.

I don't think the Wii-mote is bad for FPS, i'm just not sold on the Wii-mote as being better. Nor am I sold on the Wii-mote as being a perfect fit for all the movements entailed in todays FPS which require one to do more than shooting. Metroid has been really the only FPS to utilize the Wii-mote well, let's see it in some other shooters. Oh wait, its stuck on the Wii, so that's not really gonna happen, unless u are talking about games like Sega's Ghost Squad, which i'm not.

Here are the numbers for RE4 353k in the US. Note, I believe this chart is accurate because it has early sales numbers for Bioshock and Metroid, so it appears to be up to date. If u compare RE4 on Wii at 353k to some Capcom 360 games it is just ugly!! Lost Planet has moved 755k units. In 2006 Dead Rising moved 610k units in the States, I don't know what the total numbers for Dead Rising are because it didn't make the top 50 for 2007.

As far as Red Steel goes, it didn't make the top 50 in 2006, nor did it make the top for 2007. However the lowest Wii game in the top 50 was Metroid 3, it has moved 307k thus far, so Red Steel has to be below that.

Oh I checked the Japanese charts for '07, RE4 didn't make the top 50. The lowest ranked Wii game is at #47 Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree, it moved 244k! So RE4 must be lower than that! Unless Europe went nutz and bought about 600k units of RE4, it doesn't appear to have sold a million worldwide! Far as Red Steel, it didn't make the top 50 in Japan this year or last year.

If u take away Wii Play and Wii Sports, the Wii is really not doing that well. Taking away those two, in 2006 in Japan, there was only 1 Wii game in the top 50, Zelda at #44 with 290k. This year, in Japan taking away Wii-play and Wii-sports, the Wii only has 5 games in the top 50 in Japan. Japan is dominated by the DS and PS2. I don't know why u guys love to report what is going on in Japan. I guess since 360 is doing bad over there, it makes u guys feel good. Well, aside from selling a lot of hardware, Wii isn't doing good over there either.

Sorry bud.

poppabk

09-11-2007, 01:52 PM

Here are the numbers for RE4 353k in the US. Note, I believe this chart is accurate because it has early sales numbers for Bioshock and Metroid, so it appears to be up to date. If u compare RE4 on Wii at 353k to some Capcom 360 games it is just ugly!! Lost Planet has moved 755k units. In 2006 Dead Rising moved 610k units in the States, I don't know what the total numbers for Dead Rising are because it didn't make the top 50 for 2007.

And Capcom dropped $20 million on just advertising and promotion for Lost Planet with the majority most likely being spent in the US. So $40 million total for Lost Planet. http://members.forbes.com/global/2007/0212/022.html?partner=yahoomag
How much do you think it cost them to Wii-ify RE4? Even selling at half the price they are going to be making much more profit on RE4 than Lost Planet. Its not hardware sales that are important, nor is it software sales, it is software profit that is important.

Dancer O_o

09-11-2007, 02:00 PM

I don't think the Wii-mote is bad for FPS, i'm just not sold on the Wii-mote as being better. Nor am I sold on the Wii-mote as being a perfect fit for all the movements entailed in todays FPS which require one to do more than shooting. Metroid has been really the only FPS to utilize the Wii-mote well, let's see it in some other shooters. Oh wait, its stuck on the Wii, so that's not really gonna happen, unless u are talking about games like Sega's Ghost Squad, which i'm not.

Here are the numbers for RE4 353k in the US. Note, I believe this chart is accurate because it has early sales numbers for Bioshock and Metroid, so it appears to be up to date. If u compare RE4 on Wii at 353k to some Capcom 360 games it is just ugly!! Lost Planet has moved 755k units. In 2006 Dead Rising moved 610k units in the States, I don't know what the total numbers for Dead Rising are because it didn't make the top 50 for 2007.

As far as Red Steel goes, it didn't make the top 50 in 2006, nor did it make the top for 2007. However the lowest Wii game in the top 50 was Metroid 3, it has moved 307k thus far, so Red Steel has to be below that.

Oh I checked the Japanese charts for '07, RE4 didn't make the top 50. The lowest ranked Wii game is at #47 Big Brain Academy: Wii Degree, it moved 244k! So RE4 must be lower than that! Unless Europe went nutz and bought about 600k units of RE4, it doesn't appear to have sold a million worldwide! Far as Red Steel, it didn't make the top 50 in Japan this year or last year.

If u take away Wii Play and Wii Sports, the Wii is really not doing that well. Taking away those two, in 2006 in Japan, there was only 1 Wii game in the top 50, Zelda at #44 with 290k. This year, in Japan taking away Wii-play and Wii-sports, the Wii only has 5 games in the top 50 in Japan. Japan is dominated by the DS and PS2. I don't know why u guys love to report what is going on in Japan. I guess since 360 is doing bad over there, it makes u guys feel good. Well, aside from selling a lot of hardware, Wii isn't doing good over there either.

Sorry bud.

Never give up, never surrender! (Galaxy Quest)

I think Madden has gotten some good reviews on the Wii, and playing it multiplayer with Wii controls from what I have read is a blast when you have your buddy on your team with you. Electronic Arts and UbiSoft seems to know how to make the Wii controls accessible and easy enough for the masses.

Glockstar

09-11-2007, 02:21 PM

Renzatic Gear

09-11-2007, 02:36 PM

Everything you've mentioned could be easily done with the Wii. Once you actually get off your ass and try it out instead of stomping your feet and whining "KITTY KITTY KITTY", you might realize that.

ilnadmy

09-11-2007, 02:46 PM

And Capcom dropped $20 million on just advertising and promotion for Lost Planet with the majority most likely being spent in the US. So $40 million total for Lost Planet. http://members.forbes.com/global/2007/0212/022.html?partner=yahoomag
How much do you think it cost them to Wii-ify RE4? Even selling at half the price they are going to be making much more profit on RE4 than Lost Planet. Its not hardware sales that are important, nor is it software sales, it is software profit that is important.

Good point. Most of the advertising for RE4 had already been done.

Cuddly Knife

09-11-2007, 02:56 PM

Everything you've mentioned could be easily done with the Wii. Once you actually get off your ass and try it out instead of stomping your feet and whining "KITTY KITTY KITTY", you might realize that.
True that. Sure, the Wiimote chuck only has the analog and two trigger buttons, but the Wand itself has the A button, the B(trigger) button, four directions from the d-pad, + and - buttons, and 1 and 2 buttons at the bottom. All are accessable while gaming(Zelda TP can confirm that). That's ten buttons. Hmm, if anything, it could make tactical FPS more user-friendly.

Renzatic Gear

09-11-2007, 03:07 PM

As far as Red Steel goes, it didn't make the top 50 in 2006, nor did it make the top for 2007. However the lowest Wii game in the top 50 was Metroid 3, it has moved 307k thus far, so Red Steel has to be below that.

VGCharts: Red Steel: 1.01 Million copies sold worldwide! (http://www.vgchartz.com/games/game.php?id=1872)

Glockstar

09-11-2007, 03:08 PM

BFS. You can't access jack - other than the A button and the trigger buttons - without twisting-turning-repositioning the Wii-mote in your hand... which is going to frack up your direction and aim.

Come on, CK... comparing Zelda to a tactical shooter...?! LOL You high?!

Renzatic Gear

09-11-2007, 03:15 PM

Er, I can hit the d-pad, Z, C, A, B, +, -, and 1 without any problems. Not counting the separate directions on the d-pad, that's 7 buttons I have immediate access to.

Don't blame the Wiimote because you have freakishly small carnie midget hands.

Glockstar

09-11-2007, 03:42 PM

LOL Yeah, right. Your mom loves my hands... especially my fists.

Renzatic Gear

09-11-2007, 04:21 PM

Yeah, cuz with your small hands, that's the "safe choice".

Your mom, though. Damn. It took a team of Clydesdales dragging a load of logs to satisfy that woman. The whole thing took so much effort it was like watching some documentary on oldschool coalminers. I mean hell, someone even brought a Canary in.

Gamer88

09-11-2007, 05:39 PM

"Run, coward, Run!!!!" -- Sinistar

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/a/a5/225px-Sinistar_2.png

I remember this game, this game was awesome as a kid.

and unbeatable.

Gadfly2317

09-11-2007, 07:17 PM

I remember this game, this game was awesome as a kid.

and unbeatable.

Unbeatable was definitely the underlying point. Because TMG was beaten, ran away, you noticed he never stepped up to the post that preceded me throwing down the Sinstar "Run Coward Run" gauntlet.

Wuss. Wimp. Retard. Coward.

Oh yeah. . . I'm name calling now. Name calling is weak. . . unless some dope has really earned it by running away.

King of Arcadia

09-11-2007, 11:43 PM

Hardware makes you popular and grabs attention along with investments.

Innovative, fun and great software makes you profitable and durable as a company.

If you ran a company which one would you pick?

We already know what Nintendo has chosen and they are going to be around long after this industry crashes. Again....

ThaMaskedGamer

09-12-2007, 05:06 AM

Everything you've mentioned could be easily done with the Wii. Once you actually get off your ass and try it out instead of stomping your feet and whining "KITTY KITTY KITTY", you might realize that.

Because I haven't seen any tactical squad base shooters worth a penny on the Wii. So how can u try it out when none of those kinds of games exists on Wii, yet alone online on the Wii.

Oh that link u provided for Red Steel doesn't show how many units the game has sold. Also, u might be confusing how many units shipped to retail with how many were actually sold. For example Bioshock has shipped 1.5 million units to retail, but hasn't sold that many yet. Sure it will though, Bioshock that is, not Red Steel.

ThaMaskedGamer

09-12-2007, 05:08 AM

Unbeatable was definitely the underlying point. Because TMG was beaten, ran away, you noticed he never stepped up to the post that preceded me throwing down the Sinstar "Run Coward Run" gauntlet.

Wuss. Wimp. Retard. Coward.

Oh yeah. . . I'm name calling now. Name calling is weak. . . unless some dope has really earned it by running away.

I have no idea what post u are talking about. But whatever dude, you are great, u won, you are the best, yay Gadfly!

trebor

09-12-2007, 07:15 AM

Yeah, you played a SIMPLE shooter.

Oh what's this? Glockstar saying something ignorant?! What a surprising turn of events!

You haven't played a squad-based, tactical shooter yet on your Wii, and you most likely never will. They're too complex. They're not for the casual, the Wii-supporting simpletons; they're for the hardcore.

If they're for the "hardcore" then why are YOU talking about it?

Face it, the only thing the Wii-mote does is substitute complete/whole hand movements for thumb-movements! And it does so while sacrificing comfortable access to a myriad of other, necessary buttons (with it's current design). It's a major design deficiancy for games with real gameplay depth and/or sophistication. In squad-based/tactical shooter, not only do you shoot bad guys, strafe, and throw grenades you also:
-direct squad-mates
-take cover (it's becoming the norm)
-change your stance (crouch; go prone, etc)
-swap weapons
-reload
-toggle scope/sight aiming
-zoom
-access hi-tech gadgets, like: various vision goggles; various "grenades"

#@$%, do I need to continue?!

Well, the same thing was said of the 360's gamepad, which turned out to be true - thus why all your "hardcore" tactical shooters have to be dumbed down from their PC counterparts.

The best part about your post is that not only is it even more ignorance, it easily shows how the Wiimote is FAR superior to your kiddy gamepad for the 360.

Let's see:

-direct squad-mates - hold direction up on the D-pad and visually point to where you want to direct your squad-mates, whether on a map or in the field.
-take cover (it's becoming the norm) - hold Z-button on the nunchuck.
-change your stance (crouch; go prone, etc) - hit C-button on nunchuck
-swap weapons - hit right direction on D-pad
-reload - hit down direction on D-pad
-toggle scope/sight aiming - hit A button
-zoom - the +/- buttons
-access hi-tech gadgets, like: various vision goggles; various "grenades" - hold down left direction on d-pad and point to which item you want on HUD menu

All that PLUS you get the superior aiming and sensitivity with the Wiimote that your crappy gamepad will NEVER be able to mimic. Which is why every single FPS game on your Fisher Price 360 needs some level of auto-aiming, so you "hardcore" types can actually play the frickken genre.

So yeah, you DO need to continue, because it's FUN to prove your block-headedness.

Renzatic Gear

09-12-2007, 07:16 AM

Gadfly2317

09-12-2007, 07:58 AM

I have no idea what post u are talking about. But whatever dude, you are great, u won, you are the best, yay Gadfly!

Sure, fake ignorance, coward. Pretend you missed the size=4 COWARD when you responded to the post right next to it. It was one of the first responses to your thread, and you were sitting here lurking around waiting for responses; you responded to Ludicrum. Well, here you go again. And just in case you are more stupid than I think, this post is an exact copy of the arguments you have used to avoid addressing anyones points in the Halo thread. In otherwords, this post is a parody of you. So, if you are consistent, either you agree by your own logic that the Wii is the best gaming hardware this gen, or you need to go back over to the Halo thread and come up with something better.

Here is an argument maybe some of us recognize:

The Wii is #1 in harware sales this gen; it has stomped the 360 every single month this year--one of the fastest selling consoles in history, loved by millions of gamers. And critics and the media have raved about the hardware, from hardcores like Matt Cassamania at IGN to mainstream outlets like USA Today and TIME (which called the free pack-in game Wii Sports one of "the greatest games ever made.")

#1 in sales worldwide AND a critical smash. . . the FACTS are on MY side, I don't have to argue with your silly "opinion." The Wii is the best gaming hardware of this generation, period, and thus the best (according to retard logic.)

Yep, as TMG said in the Halo thread:

Media Praise + Sales = Objective Reality

Everything else is just subjective opinion, right? I don't have to address things like graphics, HD output, quality of online service or anything. . . those aren't "real" issues they are just your opinion wah wah wah.

Yeah I thought so. TMG. Asshat. Owned. You can't have it both ways. So, either concede here, or march your dumb ass back over to the Halo thread and address the SUBSTANCE of Zilla's post, or forever be branded

COWARD!!!!!

Yeah, TMG, you are coming up with all these "arguments" against the Wii, but we don't even need to respond to those. . because THE FACTS are on our side: Media Praise and SALES. The End. Objective Win, you are just whining your opinion.

If you believe you've got strong arguments against the Wii, then you do believe in something more criticial than just popularity and good reviews, so why don't you do us a favor and actually RESPOND to the collection of REAL issues raised by MANY gamers regarding the Halo franchise. . .they are collected in summary in Zilla's post, you know where it is. You ran away from it over in that thread like the little bedwetting coward you are, making excuses, just like you pretended not to see the post here calling you out on your BS.

ThaMaskedGamer

09-12-2007, 11:06 AM

Ooh, you lucked out. For some reason, it showed yesterday that it sold 1.01 million, yet today it's showing crap all. Strange.

Oh...ok. I'm sure it is just an oversight on their part.

ThaMaskedGamer

09-12-2007, 11:18 AM

Sure, fake ignorance, coward. Pretend you missed the size=4 COWARD when you responded to the post right next to it. It was one of the first responses to your thread, and you were sitting here lurking around waiting for responses; you responded to Ludicrum. Well, here you go again. And just in case you are more stupid than I think, this post is an exact copy of the arguments you have used to avoid addressing anyones points in the Halo thread. In otherwords, this post is a parody of you. So, if you are consistent, either you agree by your own logic that the Wii is the best gaming hardware this gen, or you need to go back over to the Halo thread and come up with something better.

Yeah, TMG, you are coming up with all these "arguments" against the Wii, but we don't even need to respond to those. . because THE FACTS are on our side: Media Praise and SALES. The End. Objective Win, you are just whining your opinion.

If you believe you've got strong arguments against the Wii, then you do believe in something more criticial than just popularity and good reviews, so why don't you do us a favor and actually RESPOND to the collection of REAL issues raised by MANY gamers regarding the Halo franchise. . .they are collected in summary in Zilla's post, you know where it is. You ran away from it over in that thread like the little bedwetting coward you are, making excuses, just like you pretended not to see the post here calling you out on your BS.

I responded to Ludicrum and I responded to Aylmer. I responded to people who actually made legitimate thoughtful responses, instead of fanboy insults.

As far as responding to Halo2 in another thread, I and others have responded to criticisms of Halo2 on this site dozens of times. There isn't anything left to say. My positions are well documented and everything I have already said refutes Zilla's rather weak "Halo2 SP campaign sucks!" statements.

Gadfly2317

09-12-2007, 11:29 AM

COWARD.

You know exactly what I was saying. There was no fanboy insult:

I used your argument from the Halo thread. . the one you used to HIDE behind. . . that the "facts are on your side" and you don't need to address any criticisms of Halo because

Good reviews + huge sales= Objective Truth

So according to you, the Wii has great reviews and is smoking 360 in sales EVERY SINGLE MONTH, there fore Wii is the best console and we don't need to even addess any of your points. "Truth is on our side" because we have Objective proof," you just have your lame opinions.

RIGHT? That's the bull you gave us over in the Halo thread to avoid EVER having to rebutt ANY real point anyone made.

So either admit you are full of crappy opinions in this thread, and that the Wii is the Best Gaming Hardware this Gen, or go back to the Halo thread, and do your job.

Avoiding this is cowardly. You are simply admitting your arguments just got smoked.

There is no fanboyism. . . personally, I think the Halo criticism are valid, just as I think there are many valid criticisms of the Wii. . .that its sales aren't due solely to greatness, but hype and herd behavior, just like Halo.

ThaMaskedGamer

09-12-2007, 01:22 PM

I used your argument from the Halo thread. . the one you used to HIDE behind. . . that the "facts are on your side" and you don't need to address any criticisms of Halo because

Good reviews + huge sales= Objective Truth
First of all, you have "my argument" wrong. My argument is not that "the facts are on my side, so I don't need to address criticisms of Halo..." My argument was I have already, ad nauseum, addressed criticisms of Halo2 and no one has moved from their original positions. So I am sick of the subject and I feel all of the objective criteria are on my side, therefore I won. :thumbsup:

Furthermore, no one had come up with any new criticisms of Halo2 that had never been addressed. In fact, this board in one way or another have criticized EVERY thing about the game. So if I hear a new criticism about Halo that has never been brought up I will give my opinion if its different. Until then I will just say if anybody wants to know my opinion just flip back through the threads, they aren't that hard to find! In a nutshell I thought the single player campaign was a great achievement and one of the best games of that era, the online multiplayer I didn't like.

When Halo3 arrives I will debate that game anew! But i'm not going to sit here and state positions that I have stated over and over for no reason. So again, you have your opinion, I have my opinion, and then there is ALL of the objective criteria that agrees with my position on Halo2.


So according to you, the Wii has great reviews and is smoking 360 in sales EVERY SINGLE MONTH, there fore Wii is the best console and we don't need to even addess any of your points. "Truth is on our side" because we have Objective proof," you just have your lame opinions. That's your opinion. Trying to use the same logic about a console I think is misplaced. You judge a game machine by the number of great games. But I know you have your own criteria, something about Nintendo always being the best and MS "teh suks" as u guys like to say.

Oh and please, give us a break with "you are a coward" tough guy routine. You and Slade and some of the others crack me up with your taunts, racism, insults. I think it has gotten a little out of hand. Nobody is impressed with an Internet Tough Guy, you nerds ain't bustin' a grape!

Gadfly2317

09-12-2007, 01:40 PM

taunts, racism, insults. I think it has gotten a little out of hand. Nobody is impressed with an Internet Tough Guy, you nerds ain't bustin' a grape!

There's been no racism here. . . and hiding behind that is just more of your cowardess.

You're dismissed. Run, Coward, Run.

ilnadmy

09-12-2007, 02:06 PM

Gadfly2317

09-12-2007, 05:42 PM

TMG: HALO GOT GOOD REVIEWS AND SOLD A LOT! THAT MEANS IT'S GOOD!
Gadfly: The Wii sold a lot and got good reviews. Does that mean the Wii is better than 360?
TMG: ...umm...NO NO THIS TIME WE NEED TO USE DIFFERENT CRITERIA!!

Glad I'm not the only one who saw that blatant flip-flopping BS. And it wasn't like he had one argument one year, and a different one a different year. It was like a day apart. Coward won't face up to it. But hey, if enough of us agree he's a coward who won't face up to this, then it becomes objective reality, eh?

Any more votes?: TMG coward. Run, coward, Run.

This isn't beating a dead horse, btw. It's beating a live (though braindead) TMG. :D

Renzatic Gear

09-12-2007, 08:47 PM

Oh that link u provided for Red Steel doesn't show how many units the game has sold. Also, u might be confusing how many units shipped to retail with how many were actually sold. For example Bioshock has shipped 1.5 million units to retail, but hasn't sold that many yet. Sure it will though, Bioshock that is, not Red Steel.

Okay, apaprently VGchartz was spazzing out on me, because it's once again showing 1.01 million copies sold worldwide.

And just for the record, I looked up Bioshock to see how it was doing. Right now it's listing it at 783k sold, not the 1.5 million shipped excuse you tried pulling out of your ass to make your argument look better.

Mochan

09-12-2007, 09:34 PM

COWARD.

You know exactly what I was saying. There was no fanboy insult:

I used your argument from the Halo thread. . the one you used to HIDE behind. . . that the "facts are on your side" and you don't need to address any criticisms of Halo because

Good reviews + huge sales= Objective Truth

So according to you, the Wii has great reviews and is smoking 360 in sales EVERY SINGLE MONTH, there fore Wii is the best console and we don't need to even addess any of your points. "Truth is on our side" because we have Objective proof," you just have your lame opinions. .

I used the same argument reversal on him, except I took it one step further down humiliation road: I used the DS against the 360. The DS has sold what, 3x or 4x what the 360 has and is getting raves from everybody. Ergo DS is better than the 360. Ouch, a $99 Handheld better than a $300 nextgenc onsole. OUCH.

He had no reply for that.

Zilla Man

09-12-2007, 11:08 PM

There isn't anything left to say. My positions are well documented and everything I have already said refutes Zilla's rather weak "Halo2 SP campaign sucks!" statements.

No it doesn't. The link/quotes I posted mention a lot more things than you supposedly "refuted" earlier in the thread. Your "refuting" was just high scores and sales figures.

And it wasn't me who stated those problems with Halo 2's SP campaign, it was regular Xbox players/people who loved Halo 1! And if their statements are so "weak" than you should be able to dismiss them easily with logic of your own.

Otherwise you're merely what Gadfly, Mochan, Trebor, and Waco have proved you to be: an ignorant cowardly Xbot.:incazzato: Par for the course for TMG.

ThaMaskedGamer

09-13-2007, 08:20 AM

No it doesn't. The link/quotes I posted mention a lot more things than you supposedly "refuted" earlier in the thread. Your "refuting" was just high scores and sales figures.

And it wasn't me who stated those problems with Halo 2's SP campaign, it was regular Xbox players/people who loved Halo 1! And if their statements are so "weak" than you should be able to dismiss them easily with logic of your own.

Otherwise you're merely what Gadfly, Mochan, Trebor, and Waco have proved you to be: an ignorant cowardly Xbot.:incazzato: Par for the course for TMG.

So Zilla Man, Gadfly, and Mochan think i'm a coward....umm and what else is new? You guys have called me every name in the book, what's one more, and i'm sure it won't be the last.

First of all Mochan you know very well that we have debated Halo2 in the past. The others should know because they were around then. Also, Zilla is correct, a XBOTS had discussions about Halo2 back in the past when the game was released. So like I said my opinions on Halo2 have been well documented right here in black and white.

If you guys want my opinions again, then IF YOU HAVE PLAYED THE GAME AND CAN FORM YOUR OWN OPINIONS make a new post and write up your OWN criticisms. And since it is so important I'll easily refute them one last time. Just make sure your criticisms are coherent and talk about gameplay. I'm not gonna reply to stupid stuff like "Halo2's single player campaign sucked!!!!" Ummm okay, what sucked about it? I'm not gonna respond to stuff like "the graphics sucked" unless u can list another console game three years ago that was better. So either make a coherent argument or please STFU:thumbsup:

Like I said before, u have your opinions(or are using others), I have mine, and all the objective criteria back me up. I win yet AGAIN!

ilnadmy

09-13-2007, 08:29 AM

Like I said before, u have your opinions(or are using others), I have mine, and all the objective criteria back me up. I win yet AGAIN!

Translation: You have your opinions, I have my opinions, but you're wrong.

theWacoKid

09-13-2007, 10:19 AM

I'm not gonna reply to stupid stuff like "Halo2's single player campaign sucked!!!!" Ummm okay, what sucked about it?

Like I said before, u have your opinions(or are using others), I have mine, and all the objective criteria back me up. I win yet AGAIN!

I've already addressed the numerous campaign issues with Halo 2, or did you forget once again, Mr. Alzheimer. Wanta argue campaign, we'll argue campaign, you must really enjoy those ass reamings I give you. The only thing you're going to win is a one way trip to palookaville.

ThaMaskedGamer

09-15-2007, 08:46 AM

I've already addressed the numerous campaign issues with Halo 2, or did you forget once again, Mr. Alzheimer. Wanta argue campaign, we'll argue campaign, you must really enjoy those ass reamings I give you. The only thing you're going to win is a one way trip to palookaville.

And I've already addressed the numerous aspects of the campaign which made Halo2 one of the greatest games of last generation Mrs.Alzheimer. Wanta argue campaign, we'll argue campaign. And stop lookin' at my ass Fruitcup!

Why u guys are at it, why don't u dig up your idea of a FPS on the consoles last generation that was better than Halo2. You know just so we can have a good idea of what true greatness is, since Halo2 isn't. :rolleyes:

Glockstar

09-17-2007, 04:24 PM

Report: Nintendo Makes About $49 Per Wii Sold in U.S.

An analyst in Japan has estimated the profit that each Wii sold generates in Japan, the U.S. and Europe. With currency conversions factored in, the Wii makes the most money in Europe ($74 each), followed by the U.S. ($49) and Japan ($13).

Nintendo President Satoru Iwata promised from the very beginning that the Wii console would generate a profit on day one. While Nintendo has not disclosed exactly how much it costs them to make the Wii console, a new report in the Financial Times cites Nikko Citigroup analyst Soichiro Fukuda who estimates that Nintendo's gross profit per console is 1,500 yen in Japan, 5,600 yen in the U.S. and 8,500 yen in Europe. That equates to about $13, $49 and $74, respectively.

Fukuda says that Nintendo is able to make more money on the console in the U.S. and Europe because of a slightly higher retail price and the bundling of the Wii Sports software. While the Wii is a profitable endeavor for Nintendo, the company's rivals Microsoft and Sony have yet to make money on their new platforms. Microsoft is aiming to make a profit in its Xbox division in 2008, while Sony likely won't profit on the PS3 until the following year.

In the meantime, the Wii has surged, reportedly taking the #1 position worldwide with 9 million units sold. And following comments by Nintendo of America President Reggie Fils-Aime that Nintendo would have "unprecedented" supply this holiday season in North America, analysts in Tokyo expressed similar sentiments that the company would have little trouble ramping up production. "Nintendo's strategy has always been to have more than one supplier for the same part so there are no shortages," said one analyst in Tokyo. "This way, Nintendo always gets the best price and production is not an issue."

The Times article itself actually focuses not so much on Nintendo's supply and profit, but the profit of its component makers. The Wii has no doubt been a great boon to many of the parts makers involved. For example, Mitsumi Electric, which provides the Wii's wireless LAN module and parts for its controllers, helps assemble the machine and also supplies parts for the very popular DS, can attribute an estimated 40 percent of its profit to Nintendo, analysts said.

Additionally, Tabuchi Electric, which produces the AC adaptor for the Wii, reported a 492 percent increase in operating profit during its first quarter, and Hosiden, a parts maker in Osaka that helps assemble the Wii, saw sales rise 84 percent and operating profit rise 70 percent.

by James Brightman

http://biz.gamedaily.com/industry/feature/?id=17445

-

Only 4 in 10 think the Wii will hold it's lead.

The current poll running over at GameDaily BIZ asks:

"Do you think Nintendo will hold onto the lead with Wii for the rest of this console cycle?"

Poll results:
Yes - there's no stopping their momentum = 39%
No - Sony will overtake them in a few years with a cheaper PS3 = 34%
No - lower prices on 360 and the Halo 3 launch will put MS back on top = 27%

folken001

09-17-2007, 05:04 PM

Translation: You have your opinions, I have my opinions, but you're wrong.
haha. this made me laugh so hard....

folken001

09-17-2007, 05:05 PM

ThaMaskedGamer

09-17-2007, 06:32 PM

Even if Wii wont hold its lead over 360, its profit will. no one yet has lost as much $$ as M$.

As of the beginning of September 360 has sold some 18 million units of software, The Wii has sold only 10 million! After the holidays 360 will have sold more software than PS3 and Wii combined, easily!

The biggest selling 3rd party game YTD on the Wii is Resident Evil with only 330,000 units sold. Nintendo's Wii will probably not have 1 3rd party game sell 500,000 units let alone 1 million this entire year. The 360 has several 3rd party games over a 1 million units including Madden and Guitar Hero 2. Bioshock has already moved 700,000 units. COD4 and ME should probably also hit 1 million well before January. Hell even the horrible Two World's on the 360 has moved 250,000 units, closing in on RE4 on the Wii lol. Stranglehold for the 360 sold 174,000 this past week, more than Warhawk and Lair combined!! Hmm, I think MS will be well on the road to profitability, but I think more important for true gamers, 360 was the hottest console for games last year and now there is no longer any doubt this year also.

What Nintendo and Wii consumers are going to do after N runs out of 1st party games is anybody guess. My guess is consumers' Wii's will begin to collect dust. And next year when 360 and PS3 drop further in price and PS3 finally starts getting real good games Wii will definitely have a tough time holding on to its hardware lead. Which really is only a lead because 360 doesn't sell in Japan. Wii is still a few million units away from taking over the lead here in the U.S.

folken001

09-17-2007, 06:49 PM

As of the beginning of September 360 has sold some 18 million units of software, The Wii has sold only 10 million! After the holidays 360 will have sold more software than PS3 and Wii combined, easily!

The biggest selling 3rd party game YTD on the Wii is Resident Evil with only 330,000 units sold. Nintendo's Wii will probably not have 1 3rd party game sell 500,000 units let alone 1 million this entire year. The 360 has several 3rd party games over a 1 million units including Madden and Guitar Hero 2. Bioshock has already moved 700,000 units. COD4 and ME should probably also hit 1 million well before January. Hell even the horrible Two World's on the 360 has moved 250,000 units, closing in on RE4 on the Wii lol. Stranglehold for the 360 sold 174,000 this past week, more than Warhawk and Lair combined!! Hmm, I think MS will be well on the road to profitability, but I think more important for true gamers, 360 was the hottest console for games last year and now there is no longer any doubt this year also.

What Nintendo and Wii consumers are going to do after N runs out of 1st party games is anybody guess. My guess is consumers' Wii's will begin to collect dust. And next year when 360 and PS3 drop further in price and PS3 finally starts getting real good games Wii will definitely have a tough time holding on to its hardware lead. Which really is only a lead because 360 doesn't sell in Japan. Wii is still a few million units away from taking over the lead here in the U.S.
Your guess is as good as some random garbage i see at the side of the street, the difference that garbage won't try to feed me some nonsense that a 3 year old can see through without a 2nd thought.

The only reason why 360 has higher software attach ratio is because it's out longer (almsot 2x as long), not because it's selling better. As Wii is outselling 360 at the current rate, it will overtake that as well given the fact that Nintendo offers a more diversed and more family oriented lineup.

ThaMaskedGamer

09-17-2007, 07:47 PM

Your guess is as good as some random garbage i see at the side of the street, the difference that garbage won't try to feed me some nonsense that a 3 year old can see through without a 2nd thought.

The only reason why 360 has higher software attach ratio is because it's out longer (almsot 2x as long), not because it's selling better. As Wii is outselling 360 at the current rate, it will overtake that as well given the fact that Nintendo offers a more diversed and more family oriented lineup.

I know intelligence is not your strong suit but these are YTD numbers. Now, it is true that the 360 still has a lead of a little less than 2 million in the US, but still, Nintendo's performance in terms of software and 3rd party software is not good. There are 4.9 million users who have no problem buying Metroid and Mario Party and last year Zelda but they won't buy R.E. or Rayman? For some reason Nintendo can only sell their own software. If they are gonna be a true player for the long-haul they gotta figure out how to push software from 3rd parties, whether u realize this or not! If they don't figure it out, Wii is gonna take the same road the GC took.

folken001

09-17-2007, 08:21 PM

I know intelligence is not your strong suit but these are YTD numbers. Now, it is true that the 360 still has a lead of a little less than 2 million in the US, but still, Nintendo's performance in terms of software and 3rd party software is not good. There are 4.9 million users who have no problem buying Metroid and Mario Party and last year Zelda but they won't buy R.E. or Rayman? For some reason Nintendo can only sell their own software. If they are gonna be a true player for the long-haul they gotta figure out how to push software from 3rd parties, whether u realize this or not! If they don't figure it out, Wii is gonna take the same road the GC took.
I hope you are not trying to say that you are smarter.....with all the contradiction u have been throwing around lately.

I never argued whether the numbers were real or not. Again, read before your reply. I could teach a monkey to do that by now with all the years your dumbass has been here. Just because you have nothing to do with your life and write 10 sentences to everyone else's one doesn't make your post more validated. In fact, it just amp ur ignore by ten folds. You write as if you are afraid people dont' get the point that you are retarded. Rest asure, we know.

publishers don't need to sell 4-5 millions of their wii games to pull even. With the low development cost, they will make millions with just 1 million sold or what not. Why do you think Wii has so many more games in development comparing to 360s? Look at M$. It is squeezing its ass so tight to make sure that Halo 3 sells. It's almost as if it's fearing that it won't pull even with the cost.

Gadfly2317

09-17-2007, 08:43 PM

As of the beginning of September 360 has sold some 18 million units of software, The Wii has sold only 10 million! After the holidays 360 will have sold more software than PS3 and Wii combined, easily!

ONLY ten million software units on Wii? 360 has only sold 18 million? With all that software that the 360 has, and having been out for two years, and it can't even double the Wii in sales? That is pathetic if true.

The biggest selling 3rd party game YTD on the Wii is Resident Evil with only 330,000 units sold. That's freaking amazing considering this game was released already on Gamecube and Ps2. I know they've redone the control, and that's pretty cool, but its not a new game, so for it to sell that well is absolutely astonishing.

You've pretty much stepped in with these numbers and demonstrated just how damned well the Wii is really doing. Thanks for doing my job, guy.

ilnadmy

09-17-2007, 08:48 PM

You've pretty much stepped in with these numbers and demonstrated just how damned well the Wii is really doing. Thanks for doing my job, guy.

Ya'll didn't know I was a ventriloquist.

ThaMaskedGamer

09-18-2007, 09:54 AM

ONLY ten million software units on Wii? 360 has only sold 18 million? With all that software that the 360 has, and having been out for two years, and it can't even double the Wii in sales? That is pathetic if true.

That's freaking amazing considering this game was released already on Gamecube and Ps2. I know they've redone the control, and that's pretty cool, but its not a new game, so for it to sell that well is absolutely astonishing.

You've pretty much stepped in with these numbers and demonstrated just how damned well the Wii is really doing. Thanks for doing my job, guy.

Those were YTD numbers. The 360 has more than doubled the Wii's software sales if u want total numbers since launch of both systems. 360 has sold something like 45 million copies of software compared to about 13 million for the Wii. You have to substract Wii Play and Wii Sports to get a real reflection of what the Wii is doing. In 2006 Wii sold 4.6 million units of software in the U.S., but if u take away the 1.2 million copies of Wii-Sports included you are only looking at about 3.4 million in 2006, add that to the 10 million for 2007 and there ya go.

If you consider that impressive and the fact that the best selling 3rd party game YTD has only moved barely over 330k then u have low expectations for Wii. Also, don't forget that the last quarter is when 50% of the business is done. So 360 should move close to 38 million units of software for the year, Wii about 20 million.

Oh, you are welcome, it seems we both agree, but just have different opinions about what is good and poor performance.

Gadfly2317

09-18-2007, 10:11 AM

I got to looking back at the title of this thread, and I realized this is the dumbest thread title I've ever seen. I mean, this thread title might have made sense to post a year ago, but to post a thread titled "Why Nintendo can't win with Wii" after Nintendo HAS won with the Wii is just beyond laughable.

And you want to "not count" Wii sports or "Wii Play" when those are both system selling and hardware selling software. Just because you have the added value of getting those with the console doesn't change the fact this is popular software that is generating a profit for Nintendo (each Wii is sold at a $49 profit.)

Obviously the 360 should have sold much more than double the Wii; the software growth chart over the life span of a console is an upward curve during the growth period, not a static line.

You are looking hard for some type of "victory" but MS is losing billions, and Nintendo is making billions. Third party titles on the Wii will sell better when third parties start releasing better software. If they did not, Nintendo still wins. . .most consoles sold, and maybe less software, but its highly profitable.

See, you can argue whether or not the "gamer wins" all you want. That's a different matter. But as companies, MS and Sony have poor business models, and both are losing market share, bleeding money and LOSING. In the long run, MS isn't a charity, you can expect them to stay in this business forever if they never turn a profit. At best, this gen they'll have some end gen profit--MAYBE--but that won't come close to making back the billions lost already.

ThaMaskedGamer

09-19-2007, 04:55 AM

I got to looking back at the title of this thread, and I realized this is the dumbest thread titl