PC building questions...HELP!!!

[Archmage1]

I'm going to be needing a new PC soon. Why, you ask? Well, I can hear the impending shadow of Doom3 falling across the land.

The only thing in my PC worth saving is my GeForce3 and my 19" Viewsonic monitor. Keyboard, wireless mouse and game controllers also. OK, and I guess my CD RW and my DVD-ROM...

My biggest fears about building my own PC were the nightmare of jumpers on motherboards and no tech support...

Well, apparently you can now buy motherboard/processor combos that need no jumper adjustment or anything...they're ready to go..

Also, I'm not sure how much I need tech support anymore... while hardly a PC expert, I have leaqrned a lot with this PC and now fix 99% of my own problems. I have two knowledgable friends and if worst came to worst I could always take it to a local PC repair shop...

Any experienced PC builders out there?

How diificult is it the first time?

Are there any tech advances in the imminent future that would make you want to wait to build one...?

How much money am I really saving?

What are the chances I build this monster and it runs?

As I see it, I would need a case, power supply, motherboard, processor, sound card, RAM, and fans.

Any opinions out there?

[Renzatic Gear]

I'm going to be needing a new PC soon. Why, you ask? Well, I can hear the impending shadow of Doom3 falling across the land.

The only thing in my PC worth saving is my GeForce3 and my 19" Viewsonic monitor. Keyboard, wireless mouse and game controllers also. OK, and I guess my CD RW and my DVD-ROM...

My biggest fears about building my own PC were the nightmare of jumpers on motherboards and no tech support...

Well, apparently you can now buy motherboard/processor combos that need no jumper adjustment or anything...they're ready to go..

Also, I'm not sure how much I need tech support anymore... while hardly a PC expert, I have leaqrned a lot with this PC and now fix 99% of my own problems. I have two knowledgable friends and if worst came to worst I could always take it to a local PC repair shop...

Any experienced PC builders out there?

How diificult is it the first time?

Are there any tech advances in the imminent future that would make you want to wait to build one...?

How much money am I really saving?

What are the chances I build this monster and it runs?

As I see it, I would need a case, power supply, motherboard, processor, sound card, RAM, and fans.

Any opinions out there?
Jumpers are a moot point nowadays, only a few mobos actually use them anymore. Now most clock an FSB settings are done inside the bios, so the only thing you'll need to know is what speed to run your motherboard at (usually 133Mhz)

Building a comp isn't difficult at all...considering it's your first time slapping one together you'll probably go really slow and take a couple of hours doing it, but overall it's sorta like snapping Lego's together; everything goes into it's own specially made slot.

The hardest part of building a comp, at least if you're gonna get an AMD machine, is mounting a heatsink on the processor. It's a bit scary because you have to put pressure on the dead center or you risk snapping your CPU in half, then you have to apply a HUGE amount of force with a small screwdriver to get the thing to snap into place on the cradle...it's by and far the most neverwrecking part of building a comp.

[Archmage1]

Renzatic, what's your take on the AMD vs. Intel battle?

I haven't been keeping up...

Are AMDs still dramatically cheaper, sacrificing a tiny bit of performance...?

What about nVidia vs. Radeon?

What's your take there? I have been very happy with nVidia's support for their cards and I've heard bad things about Radeon but it's all hearsay anyway...

[E.T.]

<div class=\"smallfont\">I'm going to be needing a new PC soon. Why, you ask? Well, I can hear the impending shadow of Doom3 falling across the land.

The only thing in my PC worth saving is my GeForce3 and my 19" Viewsonic monitor. Keyboard, wireless mouse and game controllers also. OK, and I guess my CD RW and my DVD-ROM...


How much money am I really saving?

Any opinions out there?</div>

My $.02 on building your own:
You get control over component quality & specs.
You may save a couple hundred $.

Build it because you enjoy doing so.
Have another pc handy to get on line help during build.

Note: depending on how old your previous system & controllers are, they may not work directly w/new system. My old rig had midi port for stick/wheels, new one USB/Firewire. Adapters needed. Also XP drivers for my HP scanner barely function, as was the case for MS Sidewinder.

Archemage1, refer to this link re"system build". Just past the nonsense in the middle, tech info is available:
http://forums.videogamereview.com/showthread.php?threadid=867

Ive wanted to build my own several times, even offered to finance the build of a system here as a forum project [no takers]. I think in the end building your own for the first time will require patience more than anything else. With prices on tech being such a bargain right now, buying a prebuilt can be irresistible [& you get instant gratification]. ;)

[Aku]

<div class=\"smallfont\">
The hardest part of building a comp, at least if you're gonna get an AMD machine, is mounting a heatsink on the processor. It's a bit scary because you have to put pressure on the dead center or you risk snapping your CPU in half, then you have to apply a HUGE amount of force with a small screwdriver to get the thing to snap into place on the cradle...it's by and far the most neverwrecking part of building a comp.</div>

Isn't design great? I'm not big on conspiracy theories, but when it comes to everything from cars to plumbing, I've always believed that things are designed to be as difficult to fix and maintain as possible, to keep the service industry in business and in your wallet!

[E.T.]

Prices; compare home built to this pre built [understanding some differences in hardware ].
Shop this customized Gateway system around:
P4 2.8 mhz
512 ddr ram
160 gig HD
128mb G Force FX 5200 G w/tv out [upgrade option available]
DVD-R-RW
CD-RW
17" monitor
Boston acustics w/amped sub woofer
Audigy sc [basic]
MS optic mouse & keyboard.
XP w/Roxio CD Creator
3year warranty parts/ one year toll free tech support
Free shipping

Price:aprox $1299
I custom built a new rig not long ago, started out w/top end 700XL & trimmed the pre configured "fat" to achieve an upper end gaming rig for under $2K.


Dell has slightly better deals [by use of out sourcing assembly], mobo is integrated.

[Renzatic Gear]

Isn't design great? I'm not big on conspiracy theories, but when it comes to everything from cars to plumbing, I've always believed that things are designed to be as difficult to fix and maintain as possible, to keep the service industry in business and in your wallet!
Not to mention the hospitals. I watched a friend of mine install a heatsink once...the pressure behind the the clip was so strong that when the screwdriver slipped off it the thing actually snapped back up, went through his thumb, and shattered his fingernail on the other side. It was pretty cool, actually..wish I had a camera with me when it happened.

If hearing that doesn't scare Archmage off...nothing will.

Anyway, my take on the AMD/Intel battle...

Basically, up to the 3Ghz range AMD has Intel beat hands down. Despite being clocked slower any Athlon can kill a PIV in 3D performance up to that speed..beyond that Intel begins to take the lead. It's brute force clock speeds versus design finesse, basically...the reason why an Athlon almost a Ghz slower can still keep up to the speedier Pentiums is simply because of effcient design.

But if money isn't an issue and you want the best, even if it is by a rather small margin, I'd go with the PIV 3.02..or an Opteron if you REALLY wanna throw some cash around.

Radeon vs. Geforce? As of right now Radeon all the way. The FX 5900 is a good 100 bucks more expensive than the 9800 Pro and only barely matches it in speed, if you take that along with the fact that ATI cards have ALWAYS had better image quality in comparison to what nVidia has offered then you pretty much just have a single choice. I've been using nVidia cards since the TNT2 days, but my next graphics card purchase is definately gonna be a Radeon.

The speed and clarity offered by the Radeons is worth risking the only downside they have...driver juggling. nVidia still has ATI beat when it comes to driver quality...though with the introduction of the Catalyst drivers ATI is pulling ahead.

Edit: Oh, if you do decide to go with a Geforce FX, stay away from every card cept the 5900...the 5200, which is basically the budget card, is actually slower than my aging Geforce 3. The 5600's are middling, but you get better performance from the cheaper Radeon 9600's.

[Archmage1]

<div class=\"smallfont\">[QUOTE=E.T.]<div class=\"smallfont\"></div>
My $.02 on building your own:
You get control over component quality & specs.
You may save a couple hundred $.
/QUOTE]</div>
I'm just not sure it's worth a couple hundred to me to NOT have someone ELSE accountable for if the damned thing works.

[Archmage1]

<div class=\"smallfont\">
Basically, up to the 3Ghz range AMD has Intel beat hands down. Despite being clocked slower any Athlon can kill a PIV in 3D performance up to that speed..beyond that Intel begins to take the lead. It's brute force clock speeds versus design finesse, basically...the reason why an Athlon almost a Ghz slower can still keep up to the speedier Pentiums is simply because of effcient design.</div>


But what about the oft quoted heat issue? I'd gladly sacrifice cash AND performance for stability...

Also, where does this X64 thing come into play?

Is anything stopping me from upgrading my PC one piece at a time, starting with motherboard/processor combo? Can you drop any mb in any case? Taking into account sufficient power supply?
<div class=\"smallfont\">
I've been using nVidia cards since the TNT2 days, but my next graphics card purchase is definately gonna be a Radeon.
</div>
Does this Radeon 9800 have TV In/Out capability?

[Renzatic Gear]

Well, you have a warrenty on all the seperate parts and companies like Newegg will take back any falty hardware and replace free of charge (and usually send you a crapload of stickers and t-shirts in the process).

But if you're that worried about it then going with a prebuilt system is probably your best bet. Though I wouldn't recommend going through Gateway or Dell since they cut too many corners to save money on their hardware..I've heard that Cyber Power PC (http://www.cyperpowerpc.com) is a good place to get a prebuilt comp.

[E.T.]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\">[QUOTE=E.T.]<div class=\"smallfont\"></div>
My $.02 on building your own:
You get control over component quality & specs.
You may save a couple hundred $.
/QUOTE]</div>
I'm just not sure it's worth a couple hundred to me to NOT have someone ELSE accountable for if the damned thing works.</div>


My thoughts also. Thats why I bought a customized pre-built. I found it to be the middle ground between homebuilt & off the shelf "Big Box" store units
PC hardware is just to cut throat right now to realize subsantial savings when building your own.
Ive boutght 3 prebuilds in last four years. Up to now, I've prioritized having a reliable, ready to use system.

I still wish to build my own, just for the satisfaction. Assembly of hardware is easy enough for me, its the software issues that I need more knowledge on.
E.T.

[Renzatic Gear]

But what about the oft quoted heat issue? I'd gladly sacrifice cash AND performance for stability...

Also, where does this X64 thing come into play?

Is anything stopping me from upgrading my PC one piece at a time, starting with motherboard/processor combo? Can you drop any mb in any case? Taking into account sufficient power supply?


Does this Radeon 9800 have TV In/Out capability?Whoa, you replied while I was replying...

Well I haven't had any problems with my Athlon yet, though they do run a bit hotter than the PIV's do..not by a tremendous amount though. Any good heatsink (www.heatsinkfactory (http://www.heatsinkfactory)) will do for it..you don't have to take any extra steps in comparison to an Intel chip.

The 64 bit chips...as of right now there isn't any HUGE advantage from using one. The slower Opterons do beat the faster PIV's in 32 bit benchmarks, and that performance gap will only get bigger when true 64 bit applications come into play. Right now though I'd recommend sticking to the regular processors and wait for the newer ones to drop in price a bit before you take the plunge.

Yup, you can fit any motherboard in any newer case. If you wanna make doubly sure (for peace of mind) just see if the case is ATX compliant (every single one you buy nowadays is, only older cases from like...I dunno...'96...aren't). And you don't have to buy a new case to get a new power suppily..they're just as easily swappable as any other piece of hardware. All you do is unscrew it, slide it out of the bay and replace it..easy as that.

edit: crap..forgot one of your questions. Yeah, every card on the market usually has a rev with TV in/out on it. If you wanna go with the high end of the high end you can get an R9800 All In Wonder and have a ball with it.

[E.T.]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>


[1] But what about the oft quoted heat issue? I'd gladly sacrifice cash AND performance for stability...

[2] Is anything stopping me from upgrading my PC one piece at a time, starting with motherboard/processor combo? Can you drop any mb in any case?[3] Taking into account sufficient power supply?
<div class=\"smallfont\"></div>
[4] Does this Radeon 9800 have TV In/Out capability?</div>

"Sacrifice cash & performance for stability", therein lies your answer.

[1] Intel cost a little more , runs cooler.
Serf for practical results comparing two chip makers.
When it comes down to apps & everyday gaming, I doubt you'l be watching frame rate performance.

[2] If you upgrade one piece @ a time, plan your work as opposed to "working" your plan. Having a complete start to finish, nuts'n bolts plan will minimize harware conflicts.

[3] On PSU's, both GPU & drive manufactures suggest high wattage ratings. 350 watt [B]minimum would be my suggestion.

[4] Yes ATI 9800 has TV out, as do most all upper end cards.
I order this option on all my systems, used it but once.

[Rocketship-XM]

Building is the way to go! You save money, get only what you want(not the extra software junk that the retailers throw at you), and you get great performance! It's fun, too, but watch out, it's addicting. I spend far too much time upgrading/building pc's than I should. :D

I always use http://www.newegg.com for everything except monitors, which I like to get in person. Save money, get yourself an Athlon XP. The 2500+ is about $90 at newegg and can be overclocked easily to about a 3000+. It is a MUST to have 512 mb of ram, and you should probably get PC3200 speed or greater. For a motherboard, get an MSI. They are rock solid stable, and great performers, too. I have an MSI K7N2 Delta-L, which I got on newegg for $87. Don't forget an operating system if you are going from a prebuilt to a self-built! As for ATi-Nvidia, I'm an ATi guy myself. I got a 9600 Pro for $160 on newegg, and I am yet to find a game it can't handle. If you want max performance, the 9800 Pro is the way to go. Don't let people tell you the drivers are bad....that problem is far in the past.

[E.T.]

test 5:28 667

[stangman6816]

Alright i've got a question on the P4 vs. Athlon thing. At the moment, i am building a new budget based pc. I was planning on getting a 2.4 P4, but would i be better off spending the same amount of money and get a AMD athlon XP 2800+??? which would be better for gaming???

Here is what i'm looking at so far...

One of the above processors with MSI MB
80 GB western digital harddrive
512 MB ram, 400 mhz (maybe upgrade later)
Radeon 9600 pro video
and i've got CD burners and floppies in my old computer im going to use.

Does that sound like a decent system for gaming???

[Renzatic Gear]

the XP 2800+ by and far.

Also, get an nForce 2 board if you can and divide the 512 meg into 2 256 meg modules so it can take advantage of the dual channel memory. You'll have a nice, speedy setup.