It didn't take long.

[slade]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153089

MS shoud have waited till the fab shrink to 65 nm before they launched the Elite. All the hardware components inside are the same and it is leading to the same old problems.

My Premium is still fine although it has frozen on me twice in the GUI. I'm beginning to think I might not have a working 360 by the time the games I want appear on the system.

[folken001]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=153089

MS shoud have waited till the fab shrink to 65 nm before they launched the Elite. All the hardware components inside are the same and it is leading to the same old problems.

My Premium is still fine although it has frozen on me twice in the GUI. I'm beginning to think I might not have a working 360 by the time the games I want appear on the system.

The suspense and anticipation are killing you I bet? The million question everyday is whether if your xbox360 will die TODAY.

Of course, M$ would not have to justify why their hardwares have been sh1ting on their users. Why? It's because PS3 is still 600 bucks. Aint that right 78?

[slade]

The suspense and anticipation are killing you I bet? The million question everyday is whether if your xbox360 will die TODAY.

LOL, I told my brother to stop playing Gears of War so that maybe the console might last longer but he said that the quicker it breaks down, the more time we'll have to trade it in. It makes sense since I only got a one year warranty with the thing and after November, I'm out of luck and have to deal with the 360 coffin scenario.

[folken001]

Just break it before the warranty wears out. That's what I used to do when I bought warranty for some of the items. Was I being cheap? Well, first of all, screw anyone who calls me cheap. 2ndly, no, I was being smart.

I've not purchase any extended warranty on anything after i found out that my 2 years ipod replacement plan was no longer good because new models replaced my model. So, I paid my warranty for nothing. I was super pissed and I am still pissed. And, you can bet your a@@ that I will stay pissed and I will never buy anymore warranties!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That and xbox.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Unless I get something at EB or Gamestop, I don't think I'm going to fool around with extended warranties. I got one for my MP3 player, but I can't go and get another one if it messes up (or in this case, if my earphones mess up). I have to call or go online, do this or that just to get a replacement. That sucks when you need the replacement by the next day.

Back on topic: I saw two Elites in Best Buy today, with one being sold within 5 minutes. I wonder how long MS will have three types of 360s on store shelves.

[Mochan]

I'm sure before this gen is through we'll have seen at least 5 different kinds of XBox 360s, though probably no more than 3 on the shelves at the same time.

[Gadfly2317]

The 360 is an unreliable piece of crap that breaks down, and Ps3 costs $600 and has pretty much no software.

I'm just gonna have to stick with the Wii this year and Mario Galaxy, No More Heros, Manhunt 2, and Metroid Corruption.

I wish like hell something would be done about the reliability of the 360--why can't MS figure out what's wrong, fix it, and make an announcement. . . it is a REAL problem. I really do want one, but damn! If they'd just get their act together and put out a reliable piece of hardware.

[folken001]

Oh, M$ is not retarded. They know what's wrong with the machine. They just don't want to fix it. It's probably what's keeping the cost down.

[thelastword]

The real question is this, how many of these 10 million consoles sold are actual replacements. I mean some people have bought in excess of 5 xbox 360's and the failure rate is close to 60%.

[thelastword]

We’ve had numerous reports coming in of users getting 3 red lights on their brand new Elite consoles this morning. While this is a daily occurrence with 360 Premium and Core systems, we thought Microsoft would have had a better handle on the situation with the Elite.

We’ve all seen the pictures of the motherboard changes. I assumed that these would protect the console better from heat and such to make sure less consoles would die. But alas, no. Microsoft has introduced another new product that is failing at a higher than normal rate.


To top it all off, the disc scratching issue is back. Seriously Microsoft, what the hell? Did you completely get rid of your QA department?


It never ends really, follow the link (http://loot-ninja.com/2007/04/29/xbox-360-elite-prone-to-same-problems-as-others/) where you can watch a video with the Elite's own version of HDAUDIO, lossless stuff really.

http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/uploads/vgr/155725/hpim0571re7.jpg





http://gallery.roadbikereview.com/uploads/vgr/155725/hpim0571re7.jpg

[slade]

The real question is this, how many of these 10 million consoles sold are actual replacements. I mean some people have bought in excess of 5 xbox 360's and the failure rate is close to 60%.

I doubt that's the case. MS's latest financial report from the Home and Entertainment Division cited repair costs and the warranty extension as things that contributed to the overall loss the Xbox division reported. In the long run, it's going to cost them more money to continue as they are instead of fixing the problem.

It really seems that this is an issue that they won't have a handle on until the contract for whichever subpar part is causing this problem expires and they can move on to a more reliable manufacturer.

[thelastword]

Yeah, no doubt, but it's an endless loop really. You have people sending up 5-6 coffins and the problem continues to exist. People bought the latest batch of consoles with the Benq drive hoping that it was over.

[ilnadmy]

I don't know whether this drives their decision, but more consoles breaking down means more people buying replacements means more numbers showing up in the "consoles sold" column.

[Mochan]

To answer that quote, MS doesn't have a QA division. Anyone who's lived with Windows for the past 10 years knows that.

[thelastword]

I don't know whether this drives their decision, but more consoles breaking down means more people buying replacements means more numbers showing up in the "consoles sold" column.Yeah, that's pretty much my point. You have consoles breaking in excess of five to six times, how many times will MS attempt to fix these consoles only to get them right back. Clearly, that repair center has no grip on the issue, so why would a customer pay 129.00 to repair a console which MS has no idea how to.

I believe many gamers knew when MS changed their drives to the Benq brand. Ms declared their previous drive brands was the cause of many 360 issues, so of course people plunged thinking that it was over, in the same way, people went out to get the new Elite thinking that all these issues were sorted out. The fact is, Ms has no idea how to fix these shoddy 360's without swallowing the price on more quality components. Plainly, this is what a lack of proper R&D will net you. That's why I appreciate what Kutaragi has done for the playstation brand and this industry, putting his neck on the line so that gamers would have a quality console, time and yet time again.

[Tappy_Tibbons]

This is why I refuse to buy a 360...PERIOD

[Gamer From '78]

The 360 is an unreliable piece of crap that breaks down, and Ps3 costs $600 and has pretty much no software.

I'm just gonna have to stick with the Wii this year and Mario Galaxy, No More Heros, Manhunt 2, and Metroid Corruption.

I wish like hell something would be done about the reliability of the 360--why can't MS figure out what's wrong, fix it, and make an announcement. . . it is a REAL problem. I really do want one, but damn! If they'd just get their act together and put out a reliable piece of hardware.


You know what is funny in this whole thing? How everyone gets all worked up about Xbox 360 failures and forgets about the PS3 shenanigans. How many PS2's crapped out in the first two years while Sony made revision after revision after revision to the damn thing?

How many Xbox 360's have actually failed? 10,000? 100,000? If it's 10,000 or so, that's a whopping .01% of the total units sold. If it's 100,000, that's still only 1% of systems sold that failed. Say by some bizarre chance that A HALF MILLION have failed. That's still only 5%of systems sold that failed. The PS2 punched out these failure rates like they were giving away candy.

Sony products are no more dependable than Microsoft products when it comes to games. And I've YET to have my 360 controller take a dump like my PSOne and PS2 analog controllers did, shutting off the analog sticks in the middle of playing.

No system is 100% flawless. There will be failures in a production run. But 360 has the games and mine is working like a charm. And I don't sit there eyeing it suspiciously waiting for it to die like I did every time I loaded a game in my PS2.

But I digress, everyone should go out RIGHT NOW and buy a PS3. Then you can have a dependable piece of hardware with no games to play on it! Don't that sound like fun? :rolleyes:

[folken001]

PS2 had early problem too. But it was fixed rather shortly after. Unlike Xbox360, it didnt' cost 400 bucks either. You are right, PS3 does have no games. But, would you rather buy a console that lasts until good games are out or pay 400 for a pos that doesnt' last for more than half year? Oh right, money is of no importance to you. 2000 dollars home theater system means nothing but 600 bucks ps3 is too much right?

But I digress, everyone should go out RIGHT NOW and buy a PS3. Then you can have a dependable piece of hardware with no games to play on it! Don't that sound like fun?

It sounds to me someone is getting mad. "why don't people get the damn 360s? I CURSE them!!" I suppose 78 finally stop flip flopping and he picks himself a side now.

[silversparrow]

Looks like another 360 is in the works. So much for the "Elite". :D

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070430-coming-this-fall-a-65nm-xbox-360.htmlComing this fall: a 65nm Xbox 360 (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070430-coming-this-fall-a-65nm-xbox-360.html)

A new report in the DigiTimes has the 65nm version of the Xbox 360's "Xenos" GPU coming out sometime in the fall. The new GPU will be made on TSMC's 65nm process, now that the foundry can make the 65nm eDRAM that goes into the product. As for the console's "Xenon" CPU, Chartered Semi will be making the 65nm version that's rumored to be slated for sometime in mid-2007. So I guess it's theoretically possible that we could see a version of the console with a 65nm CPU and a 90nm GPU before the whole thing goes to 65nm by the end of this year, but I doubt this.

Microsoft will want to start using the smaller chips as soon as it is feasible, because the smaller, cooler chips will let them redesign the console's insides for lower cost and higher reliability. But they'll only want to do this redesign once for 65nm, in order to get the full benefit of the die shrink. Some of this redesign may involve changes to the board-level layout, in addition to changes in the case's cooling apparatus. These changes will make the Xbox 360 cheaper to manufacture, and those savings will eventually (but not initially) be passed on to gamers in the form of price cuts on the console.

The upshot for those who're on the fence about getting an Elite 360, either as an upgrade or as a new console, is that you should wait until the fall if possible. The chances are virtually zero that a 65nm shrink will see a new form factor for the design, but a cooler-running version will be more stable and may last longer.

[slade]

PS2's failure rate was nothing like this and the kicker is that Sony actually had a mainstream console at the time. They had to manufacture more units then MS could even imagine at the moment. Just in their second year they shipped twenty million consoles. The 360's failure rate has been a public subject since two months after launch. Their first spring update bricked some launch consoles and even GRAW was blamed for killing some 360's because it overtaxed the GPU. I brought all this up last year but nobody here wanted to listen.

Right now, it looks more and more like I should have waited for the shift to 65 nm's. PS2 had a lot of revisions but those revisions actually fixed internal flaws with the console. What use is the Elite if it doesn't even fix the problems currently plaguing the 360? All you're getting is a pricier SKU that still can't compete tech wise with a 20 gig PS3, let alone a 60 gig unit.