Maybe Tomorrow, Maybe Never!

[ThaMaskedGamer]

130,000 units sold in March? Only 1 game doing well! Yet it got outsold by a PS2 port, on the market for a few days! They can toute all the European numbers they want to, but if they don't succeed here and in Japan, they are toast! When will the PS3 turn the corner? Back at launch everybody was saying PS3 was gonna be slayin' fools in March. Lair, Warhawk, Motorstorm, Heavenly Sword, VF5, this that, improved product distribution blah blah blah. Well PS3 is only slaying itself now. Unless this is part of conspiracy buy Sony to force PS3 consumers to buy Blu-ray movies, and then release great games once Blu-ray is dominant, Sony is suckin' azz right now.

Will PS3 share the same fate as the PSP? And will Blu-ray share the same fate as the UMD movie? I always want to keep saying, no, Sony will turn it around. But guess what? This is how the dominant player loses the market. Nobody sees it coming, then next thing you know, bam your outta there! The writing on the wall was easy to see with the PSP. I called immediately. I remember writing that at $250 it was only $50 away from a home console. And I remember writing that UMD would fall because those damn movies were too expensive and you are too limited with what you can do with them, plus gamers would have to choose between movies and games.

Well, that same scenario is what is killing PS3. Not too mention the dilution of the whole Sony portfolio of products. There is simply not enough money amongst Sony consumers for Sony to 'float' all of these products in the same market, yet alone compete with Nintendo and Microsoft. So what must Sony do to turn around PS3, which cannot share the same fate as PSP lest the company be in serious doo-doo:

1. Drop the PS2! As illogical as it sounds. If they want to turn around the PS3 they have got to get people to stop buying the PS2. Now think about it, cause it is really quite simple. The PS3 is the future, the PS2 is the past! When a consumer goes to Toys R Us, Sony which invested billions in B/C for PS3, does not want consumers to buy a PS2, they want you to buy a PS3. If they wanted PS2 to compete with PS3 they would never have put a PS2 chip into the PS3. They planned on people migrating to PS3.

Now, obviously, they can't just drop it. But they have to continue to support it. But they can cite manufacturing cost and discontinue it, go the MS route and say they have to devote internal resources to the PS3 and then stop making their own games for it. Then coax developers into making PS3 games. Problem is they aren't planning on any of this, and if they are it is gonna take a long time to launch this strategy.

2. Get these games out NOW! I don't give damn what the games look or play like. Take away features take away content, but get the games out. First of all I can see it now, Sony is going to drop a bunch of games all at the same time, which means a few will fall flat on their face. Next of all, spending another 6 months in development for an online feature, just so you can keep up with XBOX Live is stupid! Remember, it was a whole YEAR before MS started making games for XBOX LIVE when XBOX launched. Sony stupidly tried to do it all at once! Most consumers, especially PS consumers don't care about online that much, they would rather have the game! Sacrifice some standards and get the games out.

3. Get MORE exclusive content. At a time when they don't have the money, they desperately need to shell out money to buy exclusivity. Cause this may be needed to save their bacon. I think with the PS3 it is no longer a question of making a profit, I think now it is just a question of how much are we gonna lose and still stay in the business. The main part is staying in the business. If they lose hearts and minds to Nintendo and MS, they will be in a tough position with a PS4. If you plan on staying in, do whatever, spend whatever, to get exclusive games!

4. Drop the price. It would be stupid to do it now, it would look desperate and gamers would know it! Wait till XMAS drop the price to $479, first of all, this is essentially still $500, but gamers will think, wow they are below $500. Next claim some dramatic cost saving manufacturing process made it possible, so you don't look desperate. Sony must do this before MS does it, or else it will look like they are copying again a desperation move.

This will pull them out of their NOSE dive. Think about it. If there are no good reasons to buy a PS2, you have a bunch of killer games already on the shelves, you have exclusive content announced for the future, and then you drop the price to $479 around XMAS. This combo of moves will be unbeatable! It will cost the company a helluva lot of money, but at this point they have to double down!

[folken001]

130,000 units sold in March? Only 1 game doing well! Yet it got outsold by a PS2 port, on the market for a few days! They can toute all the European numbers they want to, but if they don't succeed here and in Japan, they are toast! When will the PS3 turn the corner? Back at launch everybody was saying PS3 was gonna be slayin' fools in March. Lair, Warhawk, Motorstorm, Heavenly Sword, VF5, this that, improved product distribution blah blah blah. Well PS3 is only slaying itself now. Unless this is part of conspiracy buy Sony to force PS3 consumers to buy Blu-ray movies, and then release great games once Blu-ray is dominant, Sony is suckin' azz right now.

Will PS3 share the same fate as the PSP? And will Blu-ray share the same fate as the UMD movie? I always want to keep saying, no, Sony will turn it around. But guess what? This is how the dominant player loses the market. Nobody sees it coming, then next thing you know, bam your outta there! The writing on the wall was easy to see with the PSP. I called immediately. I remember writing that at $250 it was only $50 away from a home console. And I remember writing that UMD would fall because those damn movies were too expensive and you are too limited with what you can do with them, plus gamers would have to choose between movies and games.

Well, that same scenario is what is killing PS3. Not too mention the dilution of the whole Sony portfolio of products. There is simply not enough money amongst Sony consumers for Sony to 'float' all of these products in the same market, yet alone compete with Nintendo and Microsoft. So what must Sony do to turn around PS3, which cannot share the same fate as PSP lest the company be in serious doo-doo:

1. Drop the PS2! As illogical as it sounds. If they want to turn around the PS3 they have got to get people to stop buying the PS2. Now think about it, cause it is really quite simple. The PS3 is the future, the PS2 is the past! When a consumer goes to Toys R Us, Sony which invested billions in B/C for PS3, does not want consumers to buy a PS2, they want you to buy a PS3. If they wanted PS2 to compete with PS3 they would never have put a PS2 chip into the PS3. They planned on people migrating to PS3.

Now, obviously, they can't just drop it. But they have to continue to support it. But they can cite manufacturing cost and discontinue it, go the MS route and say they have to devote internal resources to the PS3 and then stop making their own games for it. Then coax developers into making PS3 games. Problem is they aren't planning on any of this, and if they are it is gonna take a long time to launch this strategy.

2. Get these games out NOW! I don't give damn what the games look or play like. Take away features take away content, but get the games out. First of all I can see it now, Sony is going to drop a bunch of games all at the same time, which means a few will fall flat on their face. Next of all, spending another 6 months in development for an online feature, just so you can keep up with XBOX Live is stupid! Remember, it was a whole YEAR before MS started making games for XBOX LIVE when XBOX launched. Sony stupidly tried to do it all at once! Most consumers, especially PS consumers don't care about online that much, they would rather have the game! Sacrifice some standards and get the games out.

3. Get MORE exclusive content. At a time when they don't have the money, they desperately need to shell out money to buy exclusivity. Cause this may be needed to save their bacon. I think with the PS3 it is no longer a question of making a profit, I think now it is just a question of how much are we gonna lose and still stay in the business. The main part is staying in the business. If they lose hearts and minds to Nintendo and MS, they will be in a tough position with a PS4. If you plan on staying in, do whatever, spend whatever, to get exclusive games!

4. Drop the price. It would be stupid to do it now, it would look desperate and gamers would know it! Wait till XMAS drop the price to $479, first of all, this is essentially still $500, but gamers will think, wow they are below $500. Next claim some dramatic cost saving manufacturing process made it possible, so you don't look desperate. Sony must do this before MS does it, or else it will look like they are copying again a desperation move.

This will pull them out of their NOSE dive. Think about it. If there are no good reasons to buy a PS2, you have a bunch of killer games already on the shelves, you have exclusive content announced for the future, and then you drop the price to $479 around XMAS. This combo of moves will be unbeatable! It will cost the company a helluva lot of money, but at this point they have to double down!

sharing the same fate as PSP? That's not a bad thing is it? 20 million PSP around the world. Yeah, it's not much comparing to DS, but, let's not forget, 360 ain't no DS either.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

sharing the same fate as PSP? That's not a bad thing is it? 20 million PSP around the world. Yeah, it's not much comparing to DS, but, let's not forget, 360 ain't no DS either.

The thing is Sony seems highly dependent on the Success of the PS3 the company seems to be riding at. Will it be able to really sustain the company with just the PSP type numbers.

I think Mask is right they need to lose focus on the PS2 and incourage 3rd parties to do the same. Sony has a strong brand name but a lot of casual fans aren't neccessairly Sony fans. They may have only owned a PS2 last gen and only played GTA and Madden. It doesn't neccessairly mean they will buy a PS3 now. Sony just figured people will migrate. They won't.

[folken001]

The thing is Sony seems highly dependent on the Success of the PS3 the company seems to be riding at. Will it be able to really sustain the company with just the PSP type numbers.

I think Mask is right they need to lose focus on the PS2 and incourage 3rd parties to do the same. Sony has a strong brand name but a lot of casual fans aren't neccessairly Sony fans. They may have only owned a PS2 last gen and only played GTA and Madden. It doesn't neccessairly mean they will buy a PS3 now. Sony just figured people will migrate. They won't.
it'd make no sense to me for Sony to pull PS2's plug. It is still selling strong. Will absence of PS2 increase the sale of PS3? I seriously doubt it.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

it'd make no sense to me for Sony to pull PS2's plug. It is still selling strong. Will absence of PS2 increase the sale of PS3? I seriously doubt it.

There is really no way to know. But I can tell you this. Neither of Sonys Competitors are concentrating on more than one Home console and both of them are Handling beating Sony.

[Mochan]

The question is whether the PS3 can afford to wait for the Wii to take its course (assuming it will) and more importantly, see if developer's interest in the 360 for whatever reasons and perks MS has to offer will eventually grow stale, and devs begin developing exclusively for the PS3 again.

Abandoning the PS2 is actually the logical thing to do if you want the PS3 to sell better, but I think Sony is content to rest on the PS2 while slowly installing PS3s (and their Blueray Drives) into homes for the first two years. They are looking to make the PS3 a ten-year console so they have time to sit back and wait for things to run their course. Frankly I think in 5 years time the PS3 will be obsolete in terms of pushing out cutting edge graphics (if not sooner) but that was never a problem with the PS2 and I think Sony is really looking to take it slow here at this point.

So the smarter business strategy I believe is to keep the PS2 -- which many gamers are still interested in, especially the "mainstream" crowd that is flocking to the Wii -- and slowly crank out the PS3s in the meantime.

The thing is Sony seems highly dependent on the Success of the PS3 the company seems to be riding at. Will it be able to really sustain the company with just the PSP type numbers.

This is true, but it's not clear that Sony needs the PS3 to succeed NOW rather than later. PS3 seems to me to be a long term strategy and it is banking on the PS3 not just in the games arena but also in the home video arena and even the home entertainment hub concept. Sony can't be too happy with how things are going now, but I don't think they're that desperate or worried just yet -- this still could be in whatever business plan they have for the long term.

It's the same with MS -- the 360 and Xbox 1 have bled more money than the PS3 has but MS is staying its course. The XBox thing is a long-term strategy for MS afterall to protect its other arm - the Windows arm -- and represents more than just a gaming device, it's a hedge against other devices making it into the family living room and throwing Windows PCs out.

Sony is probably happy about the Bluray drive making more inroads than HD DVD, and they are counting on this to pay off in the long term, not necessarily this year or next year but a few years down when HD TV prices go down and HD becomes more commonplace. It's going to happen eventually unless we get some kind of worldwide financial crash, and the PS3 is an early hedge bet for this. We don't know if it will succeed but the PS3 is in the unenviable position of having to pull double or even triple duty for Sony's corporate plans.

Too bad though it seems that the PS3 is going to lose the de facto standard for game development this gaming gen to the 360, and that is something they probably hadn't counted on. But the PS3 can't be counted as a failure yet just because of that, at least the PS3 is still getting games. The PS2 mainstream gamers may not be migrating now, but there's no evidence to support that they'll be migrating to the 360 either -- they may be just waiting for price drops and the next killer app before moving to the PS3. Unfortunately, what seems to be the case is they are migrating to the Wii -- again the Wii seems to be the PS2 of this gen.

But pulling the plug on the PS2 is certainly not the solution to this, if anything that would aggravate the situation and make even more gamers turn to the Wii. So no, Sony shoudl keep the PS2.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

it'd make no sense to me for Sony to pull PS2's plug. It is still selling strong. Will absence of PS2 increase the sale of PS3? I seriously doubt it.

Why is there is a PS2 chip inside of each PS3? Which console do you think Sony would rather have selling 250,000 units? Sony knows that if a person goes out and buys a new PS2 today, the chances of that same person turning around in the same year and buying a PS3 are slim. That is probably one customer they lost for a whole year or perhaps for a whole lifecycle if that persons gets a PS2 + 360.

Anyway titles like God of War 2 are making people say "who cares about Motorstorm!" Now you might say that's good for GOW2, but that is silly. GOW2 could have been a XMAS PS3 title. MS could have made Halo3 on XBOX, it would have sold 7-10 million easy, but that would have sunk the 360! People would have continued to play XBOX and play the hell outta Halo3 instead of getting 360 and playing COD2.

It seems like Nintendo and MS understood this. You think Nintendo wanted GC to keep going strong? Hell no so they pulled the plug on Zelda, despite announcing it was supposed to be on GC also. Look at how good Wii is doing. It is one thing to compete with your own handheld, but to be so ignorant to think you can compete with your own console is just stupid. I don't think Sony is stupid they are just arrogant, they thought people would just migrate over, they thought they were the sh*t, and in truth they were. The problem is they made the PS2 too sweet a deal, they never should have remodeled it, and they never should have pimped new games on it, they never shoulda made it so damn cheap all the WHILE MAKING A $600 CONSOLE WITH LITTLE TO NO GOOD GAMES. I mean they are some fools to allow this to pass, but this is what is wrong with corporations, ran by idiots.

[Renzatic Gear]

You think Nintendo wanted GC to keep going strong? Hell no so they pulled the plug on Zelda, despite announcing it was supposed to be on GC also.

Just a little heads up, Zelda came out for both the Wii and the GC.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

The question is whether the PS3 can afford to wait for the Wii to take its course (assuming it will) and more importantly, see if developer's interest in the 360 for whatever reasons and perks MS has to offer will eventually grow stale, and devs begin developing exclusively for the PS3 again.

Abandoning the PS2 is actually the logical thing to do if you want the PS3 to sell better, but I think Sony is content to rest on the PS2 while slowly installing PS3s (and their Blueray Drives) into homes for the first two years. They are looking to make the PS3 a ten-year console so they have time to sit back and wait for things to run their course. Frankly I think in 5 years time the PS3 will be obsolete in terms of pushing out cutting edge graphics (if not sooner) but that was never a problem with the PS2 and I think Sony is really looking to take it slow here at this point.

So the smarter business strategy I believe is to keep the PS2 -- which many gamers are still interested in, especially the "mainstream" crowd that is flocking to the Wii -- and slowly crank out the PS3s in the meantime.



This is true, but it's not clear that Sony needs the PS3 to succeed NOW rather than later. PS3 seems to me to be a long term strategy and it is banking on the PS3 not just in the games arena but also in the home video arena and even the home entertainment hub concept. Sony can't be too happy with how things are going now, but I don't think they're that desperate or worried just yet -- this still could be in whatever business plan they have for the long term.

It's the same with MS -- the 360 and Xbox 1 have bled more money than the PS3 has but MS is staying its course. The XBox thing is a long-term strategy for MS afterall to protect its other arm - the Windows arm -- and represents more than just a gaming device, it's a hedge against other devices making it into the family living room and throwing Windows PCs out.

Sony is probably happy about the Bluray drive making more inroads than HD DVD, and they are counting on this to pay off in the long term, not necessarily this year or next year but a few years down when HD TV prices go down and HD becomes more commonplace. It's going to happen eventually unless we get some kind of worldwide financial crash, and the PS3 is an early hedge bet for this. We don't know if it will succeed but the PS3 is in the unenviable position of having to pull double or even triple duty for Sony's corporate plans.

Too bad though it seems that the PS3 is going to lose the de facto standard for game development this gaming gen to the 360, and that is something they probably hadn't counted on. But the PS3 can't be counted as a failure yet just because of that, at least the PS3 is still getting games. The PS2 mainstream gamers may not be migrating now, but there's no evidence to support that they'll be migrating to the 360 either -- they may be just waiting for price drops and the next killer app before moving to the PS3. Unfortunately, what seems to be the case is they are migrating to the Wii -- again the Wii seems to be the PS2 of this gen.

But pulling the plug on the PS2 is certainly not the solution to this, if anything that would aggravate the situation and make even more gamers turn to the Wii. So no, Sony shoudl keep the PS2.


They have done everything by the numbers to go down the same road as the Saturn or the Neo-Geo. First to be absurdly priced, second to be arrogant, third to ignore the threat of the competition, fourth to not make the right adjustments to turn things around quickly. Sony is acting like George Bush, just stay the course things will get better, things must get better. Next thing you know in March you are selling 130,000 units!

They are happy about Blu-ray? Why? This is how irrelevant the Bluray lead is. This past month to celebrate the anniversary or something of HD-DVD, HD-DVD buyers all decided to buy movies en masse, so this temporarily pushed them back into the sales lead. That is how ephemeral the situation is. Now Bluray owners are going to counter and do the same thing. Blu-ray is NOT doing well cause it cannot stand on its own. HD-DVD players have reach 100,000 units sold in the US, Blu-ray players have not! I said long ago, the fact that the PS3 is a blu-ray players will eventually piss off other consumer electronics companies. Hmmm Samsung is making all of these nice expensive blu-ray players and nobody is buying them. So guess what! Now Samsung is making dual HD-players, they are now supporting HD-DVD. Plus they are considering making stand-alone HD-DVD players.

There are two problems for Sony and Blu-ray! 1. When and if PS3 starts selling games that will cut down blu-ray sales, just like UMD movies 2. When other studios cave in and support HD-DVD, blu-ray would be in trouble.

So Sony really needs to light a fire under their azz, because if their batch of games this holiday season get outshined by Halo3, Mass Effect, Bioshock etc., they are toast. Sony simply MUST win this holiday season in a BIG way. There is no way they can lose 2 XMAS seasons in a row and expect to win. Plus they can forget that 10 year crap, MS will force them to upgrade again. 10 years man those days is gone the PSOne and PS2 lifecycles are unique, plus PS3 just is not gonna reach that volume. I think we are seeing the slow unseating of the champ.

[Gadfly2317]

Just a little heads up, Zelda came out for both the Wii and the GC.

Yeah, but they delayed it's release almost a year, retooled a version for the Wii, then released the GC version a whole month after the Wii version.

Imagine if Sony had done the same thing with God of War 2?

As far as Ps2 vs Ps3, I've really decided I'm just going to keep gaming on my Ps2 and Wii for awhile longer. There is a LOT of gaming I still want to do on Ps2. Hell, the Mana game hasn't even come out yet. . . and damn do I ever have high hopes this one returns the series to form.

[folken001]

Why is there is a PS2 chip inside of each PS3? Which console do you think Sony would rather have selling 250,000 units? Sony knows that if a person goes out and buys a new PS2 today, the chances of that same person turning around in the same year and buying a PS3 are slim. That is probably one customer they lost for a whole year or perhaps for a whole lifecycle if that persons gets a PS2 + 360.

1. For your information, PS3 doesn't have PS2 chips anymore.
2. I think Sony rather to have BOTH of them selling 250,000 units.
3. If Sony actually thinks that, they would've stopped selling PS2.

Anyway titles like God of War 2 are making people say "who cares about Motorstorm!" Now you might say that's good for GOW2, but that is silly. GOW2 could have been a XMAS PS3 title. MS could have made Halo3 on XBOX, it would have sold 7-10 million easy, but that would have sunk the 360! People would have continued to play XBOX and play the hell outta Halo3 instead of getting 360 and playing COD2.

Your logic is all messed up. Your argument could've worked if GoW2 on PS2 sucked or people didn't know the possibility of GoW3 on PS3. Neither is true.

Btw, I think you give Halo too much credit.

It seems like Nintendo and MS understood this. You think Nintendo wanted GC to keep going strong? Hell no so they pulled the plug on Zelda, despite announcing it was supposed to be on GC also. Look at how good Wii is doing. It is one thing to compete with your own handheld, but to be so ignorant to think you can compete with your own console is just stupid. I don't think Sony is stupid they are just arrogant, they thought people would just migrate over, they thought they were the sh*t, and in truth they were. The problem is they made the PS2 too sweet a deal, they never should have remodeled it, and they never should have pimped new games on it, they never shoulda made it so damn cheap all the WHILE MAKING A $600 CONSOLE WITH LITTLE TO NO GOOD GAMES. I mean they are some fools to allow this to pass, but this is what is wrong with corporations, ran by idiots.

Read what Renz said. And this is just a bad example. GC doesn't have 120 million userbase like PS2.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

<b>1. For your information, PS3 doesn't have PS2 chips anymore. </b> It was designed with it, which means millions wasted in R&D, the first few millions of batches and i'd bet plenty still on the shelves have the chip, millions more wasted in productions. Now they've switched over to emulation, more in R&D.<b>
2. I think Sony rather to have BOTH of them selling 250,000 units. </b>
Yeah and i'll bet MS would have loved to keep selling 250k units of the XBOX and 360. I'm sure Nintendo would have loved to keep selling 250k units of GC and Wii. But they realized they <i>couldn't</i>. Any smart company would have realized this. Plus again, you miss the point, nothing new for you, but if Sony expected to sell 250k of both, why put a PS2 chip in the PS3?



<b>
Your logic is all messed up. Your argument could've worked if GoW2 on PS2 sucked or people didn't know the possibility of GoW3 on PS3. Neither is true.

Btw, I think you give Halo too much credit. </b> I guess we will see this fall.