Systems falling apart

[Gadfly2317]

As the itch grows to pick up a Ps3 or 360, one more hang-up that lingers is, after laying out the dough, are these systems really as crappy as the rumors have it? How many of you guys have had systems die already?

Is there any sort of objective analysis out there someone can link to? What is this red ring of death on the 360? How is Ps3 holding up?

And for you techies, WHY is system fall-apart such an issue, and is the supposed ruggedness/reliability of the Nintendo systems a myth, and if not, why the hell can one company make systems that don't fall apart and the other companies have all these issues?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[Mochan]

Cost cutting. No matter how you spin it, a system $300-$600 system packing the alleged power of a system that should be costing $1000 or more is going to have some inferior parts in it. You could say that "you get what you pay for."

Assuming this theory is true, Nintendo is obviously more exmpt from such a scheme, since it has a far less powerful system on its hand, meaning they didn't have to cut cost as much and could select better quality parts to put its system together.

[Mochan]

That said the PS3 doesn't seem to have as much "death" issues as the 360, even taking into account the 360 being around longer. I mean, I took me a while to find stories of PS3 hardware failure online but the stories of 360 hardware failure are alarming. A quick google up shows links aplenty:

http://forums.xbox.com/11609107/ShowPost.aspx
http://digg.com/gaming_news/Xbox_360_Hardware_Failure_Survey_59_Fail
http://www.wikixbox360.com/page/Xbox+360+Freeze+due+to+hardware+failure+after+rece nt+update


And here's the clincher... I found those links while searching for PS3 failures. O_o

[Gadfly2317]

Is there something aside from cheap components wrong with the 360 design? That's definitely the system I'm leaning towards getting, but at this point I was hoping there'd be a fix, or an acknowledged working out of the bugs. If a better, less crappy system is around the corner I'd like to wait a bit, but if not, I guess I can always bite the bullet and buy the expensive product-replacement warranty.

Which I hate to do. Consumers should NOT have to shell out extra for warranties on retail products (cars on the other hand. . . .that's a different story.)

[XussG]

I found myself in your shoes just a couple of weeks ago. I wanted to pick up a system and narrowed it down to the Xbox360 and PS3 (I wanted some HD graphics)

Ultimately, the PS3 won out as the reliablity issues with the Xbox360 were just too terrible. I've heard about the red rings of doom, the overheating, the disc scratching, the disc freezing, the inability to recognize discs in the system, the inability to close the disc tray, etc... etc...

Even if I preferred the Xbox360 game library more and/or the ability to play in a highly refined online environment (Xbox Live), I just didn't want the hassle of booting up my system and praying it worked every single time.

I owned an Xbox the previous generation and while it was very reliable for most of its lifespan, it started having severe disc reading errors near the end. (Much like the ones the current Xbox360 is suffering from)

It would freeze up randomly and tell my my discs were scratched or dirty. It would sometimes refuse to boot and ask me to insert an Xbox game disc when clearly, that's what I had inside. It's just too much of a hassle to wish the system works upon bootup each time so I went with the PS3.

Admittedly, the lack of games was irritating for a while but then I got my hands on Oblivion and I've been preoccupied ever since.

If you do end up purchasing the Xbox360 (and while it wasn't for me, I won't deny it's a great system), I would definitely recommend picking up an in-store warranty. Horror stories abound with Microsoft's customer support team as well. Not to mention getting a refurbished unit in return. (If you're still interested in researching the topic, check out the Xbox360 Hardware boards on the forums.xbox.com site) Be warned though...it might turn you off from getting one!!

Best of luck with the decision

[slade]

Get an extended warranty with the system if you are that concerned.

The point here is that you still haven't made up your mind on which system to get. Do some research and then follow the advice in sentence one. In the end, it still has to come down to software and you would be better off getting something you wanted as opposed to something you did not want.

[MoNkEy MaN X]

I personally had the 3 red rings on the 360 for no appearent reason. The people at MS said it was unfixable and is a hardware failure. The system was less than 2 months old at that point.

My PS3 is still going and same with my Wii. Had them for about 5 months now. If you go with the 360 buy the extended warrenty.

[Fivespot]

When I bought my 360 it came with a 90 day warranty from MS. With all the problems people have experienced, MS changed their policy and now ships every unit with a 1 year warranty (same as the PS3).

Gamestop and EB offer warranties but they don't start until the factory warranty expires so if you sign up with 1 year through them you're basically getting 2 years worth of coverage (1 year w/MSN and 1 year w/Gamestop/EB) - a recent change to their warranty policy.

I had my 360 repaired in February, and I received a 1 year warranty on the repair so I'm covered now for awhile. It sucks that I had to go through that but I'm happy MS is standing by the repair with a 1 year warranty.

PS3 may work well but their isn't much to play on it at the moment. My fear is that by the time I start spinning that machine a bit more my 1 year will already be expired. NOTE- I returned one PS3 after I experienced Blu ray movies freezing up so it's not like PS3's are without problems.

[Mochan]

Is there something aside from cheap components wrong with the 360 design?


Well, the 360 is using a different kind of architecture (Unified) not just wiht its shaders on the GPU, but also with its memory, and it shares bandwidth on its bus between the CPU and the GPU, this is a new thing as opposed to PS3s or PCs that have a seperate bus for the CPU and GPU going to their respective "southbridges" I don't know if this is putting extra strain on the system with everything pulling double duty. I doubt it I never heard anything about such a thing putting strain but that's one thing to consider.

Also remember this is a new kind of architecture so it's untested and that may allow for bugs of the crashing kind.

This is all conjecture though and I'm pulling it all out of my ass so don't quote me on this.


Personally I just think MS got a cheap Power Supply Unit for the 360 along with a cheap harddisk and cheap memory.

[theWacoKid]

As the itch grows to pick up a Ps3 or 360, one more hang-up that lingers is, after laying out the dough, are these systems really as crappy as the rumors have it? How many of you guys have had systems die already?

Is there any sort of objective analysis out there someone can link to? What is this red ring of death on the 360? How is Ps3 holding up?

And for you techies, WHY is system fall-apart such an issue, and is the supposed ruggedness/reliability of the Nintendo systems a myth, and if not, why the hell can one company make systems that don't fall apart and the other companies have all these issues?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Go to gaf and check out the thread, "My xbox 360 died and I lived to tell about it". Over 2400 replies and is continuously updated with fresh new horror stories.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=148060

Over at teambox, another very long thread at over 1600 replies and counting is the 360 hardware console problem thread..

http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=481778

FACT. MS changed their warranty on the console and refunded back warranty repairs to numerous owners. The likely reason for this generous behavior was to stave off class action lawsuits they most certainly would have lost and to stave off the negative publicity accompanying those lawsuits.

MS is not a hardware engineering company. Typicallly with consumer electronics items, if a unit fails, it fails within the first 30 days. If a system breaks down 6, 9, 12, 18 months down the road, its not the result of some isolated defect. The systems are breaking down essentially because they're garbage. The defect is in the manufacturing processs and the components used.

The chipsets that MS uses are very complex, very dense chipsets that run hot and are very high performance. You can't stick these high powered chipsets into a chassis that is very low tech. The motherboard of the 360 is a bit of a joke. You can check out the link. Messy motherboards with cheap looking capacitors does not inspire confidence in the system's reliability.

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2005/1210/xbox56.jpg

Compare to the ps3 motherboard which is clean and neatly laid out.

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2006/1111/ps3_32.jpg

The ps3 utilzes a power supply twice the capacity of the 360. That doesnt make sense. Both chipsets are quite powerful. While the ps3 appears to have some headroom built into its power supply, I believe the 360's power supply is inadequate and of low quality.

You can check out the following paragraphs from an article on the importance of a good power supply.

Considering the Importance of the Power Supply

The power supply is not only one of the most important parts in a PC, but it is unfortunately also the most overlooked. In the words of a famous comedian, the power supply gets no respect! People spend hours discussing their processor speeds, memory capacity, disk storage capacity and speed, video adapter performance, monitor size, and so forth, but rarely even mention or consider their power supply. When a system is put together to meet the lowest possible price point, what component do you think the manufacturer will skimp on? Yes, the power supply. To most people, the power supply is a rather nondescript, unglamorous metal box that sits inside their systems, something to which they pay virtually no attention at all. The few who do pay any mind seem concerned only with how many watts of power it is rated to put out (even though no practical way exists to verify those ratings), without regard as to whether the power being produced is clean and stable, or whether it is full of noise, spikes, and surges.

I have always placed great emphasis on selecting a power supply for my system. I consider the power supply the core of the system and am willing to spend more to get a better unit. The power supply function is critical because it supplies electrical power to every other component in the system. In my experience, the power supply is also one of the most failure-prone components in any computer system, especially due to the fact that so many system assemblers use the cheapest ones they can find. A malfunctioning power supply can not only cause other components in the system to malfunction, but it also can damage the other components in your computer by delivering an improper or erratic voltage. Because of its importance to proper and reliable system operation, you should understand both the function and limitations of a power supply, as well as its potential problems and their solutions.

Gee, erratic or improper voltage damaging components due to a substandard psu being used to save costs. MS wouldn't have done that, would they to save a few pennies.

The ps3 power supply is a low profile 400watt design and from reading costs about twice what a typical pc power supply does. The 360 power supply is 200 watts and seems barely adequate to the task. Gimme the 400 watt psu, thank you very much.

The 360's mobo is a mess, its power supply doesn't pass muster and its cooling solution is gloriously low tech. Standard heat sinks, with two small fans drawing heat from the unit. The ps3 employs one single large fan that is variable speed that is thermostatically controlled. . The 360 fans are basically either on or off.

The red ring of death is visual confirmation that your system is fu#$ed! Your system doesn't need to get the red ring of death to be fu#$ed, however, as frequent system freezes, crashes and visuals anamolies like onscreen checkerboard patterns are typically a prelude to outright system failure.

Nintendo systems are durable because they're low tech, the chipsets don't run hot, they're a known quantity.

You can't stick in high powered chipsets into a poorly engineered chassis and expect the system to last. 360s break down and will continue to break down until MS re-engineers the system. The systems are basically wearing out, its not a design defect per se, just crappy assembly and cheap components stressed out beyond their limits. I seriously doubt that any 360 currently manufactured will ever last past three years.

[Gadfly2317]

Thanks for all the info. It really does sound to me like the 360 is the most problematic system, and I wish I knew if they were going to do something to improve it soon. I'd hate to buy the thing and then 3 months later they release something that fixes these issues.

It's just interesting to compare; it'll still be whichever one has the game/games I want to play the most whenever I get around to it.

[Mochan]

Me too. Tel you what MS. Come out with a new SKU of the 360 with improved parts and reliability, and I'll snarf it up and turn XBot no second thoughts. With the current game library you guys are offering, and are likely to offer in the future for this gen, it would be worth it.

[Dancer O_o]

As the itch grows to pick up a Ps3 or 360, one more hang-up that lingers is, after laying out the dough, are these systems really as crappy as the rumors have it? How many of you guys have had systems die already?

Is there any sort of objective analysis out there someone can link to? What is this red ring of death on the 360? How is Ps3 holding up?

And for you techies, WHY is system fall-apart such an issue, and is the supposed ruggedness/reliability of the Nintendo systems a myth, and if not, why the hell can one company make systems that don't fall apart and the other companies have all these issues?

Inquiring minds want to know.

My Wii has fallen over twice and once completely fallen off the ledge and did a 5 foot death dive and popped the GC controller door off when it hit the floor. I put the door back on and continued playing, the machine didn't even turn off or screw up where I was in the game, hell it didn't even have a scratch on it. I've had a few Nintendo consoles and handfelds over the years, they are tough and durable. Who hasn't thrown a Super Nes game as hard as they can at least once in their life?

The PS3 looks like a tank and purrs like a kitten, I believe it when Sony says it'll last a decade. I have a lot of hours on this machine already for movies and games.

The 360 also has been a rugged machine for me and I've had no problems with it so far, I've got a nephew that has had one since day one launch, the oldest 360 I know of and it still works fine.

It's been my experience that all 3 are good. The 360 did lock up a few times but an update and it never locked again so far on any game. The Wii simply does not lock up or hang a game ever, and the PS3 has played every single thing I've thrown in it without fail.

[Gamer From '78]

As the itch grows to pick up a Ps3 or 360, one more hang-up that lingers is, after laying out the dough, are these systems really as crappy as the rumors have it? How many of you guys have had systems die already?

Is there any sort of objective analysis out there someone can link to? What is this red ring of death on the 360? How is Ps3 holding up?

And for you techies, WHY is system fall-apart such an issue, and is the supposed ruggedness/reliability of the Nintendo systems a myth, and if not, why the hell can one company make systems that don't fall apart and the other companies have all these issues?

Inquiring minds want to know.

In all honesty Gadfly, the only systems I will buy without an extended warranty are Nintendo products and/or something that has a proven track record of reliability such as the remodeled PS2 (which is also so inexpensive, I wouldn't hesitate to buy another if mine broke down).

That being said, my dumb ass didn't take an extended warranty out on my 360 when I purchased it at Best Buy. After my 1-year MS warranty runs out, who knows? I don't turn the system on expecting it to be DOA, but the thought does cross my mind more often than I would like it to. Consumers shouldn't have to worry about their electronic device crapping out on them. I've read the horror stories of the three rings of death and personally, two co-workers who are also big 360-buffs have had system deaths. Both bought launch systems or within the first few months. Microsoft reparied their systems, no problem but it still sucks balls. PS3 on the other hand seems to be the most refined piece of hardware Sony has put out and I haven't heard of many problems with them.

But aside from all that, it comes down to the games. 360 has them, the PS3? In the words of Borat "Not so much." I look at the PS3 every single time I go into a store. While I think I would most likely have some fun with Resistance, everything else currently available looks like crap to me. I was watching a guy play the Baseball game on the PS3 (not sure which title it was, but it's the newest demo) on a high-def display and the game looked so PS2-ish it made me sick. The pitcher was nothing but a set of jaggies that looked like "Jumpman" in Donkey Kong. Horrible. Our very own Ocelot has cleary let us know how bad some PS3 games are ala Splinter Cell.

If I were you? Since I don't buy either Sony or Microsoft systems without a warranty, I would go with the Xbox 360. The system has a 1-year warranty and you can get an extended in-store warranty. And if they do come out with a improved version of the system in a few years, take yours in and say it crapped out and get a new one to replace it. Note: I have read recently that Microsoft is now shipping 360's with a quieter DVD drive that doesn't sound like a jet turbine.

To me, it all comes down to what games are availabe. Gears of War, Halo 3, Lost Planet, Dead Rising and the best versions of multiplatform fare is reason enough. And I would be a tool to forget to mention Viva Pinata to you. A game that I feel you and your wife would quickly become addicted to. Bioshock, Fable 2, Mass Effect...icing on the cake. You KNOW these will be good.

And on a different note...have you played Super Paper Mario yet? That game is a blast! And a big THANK YOU to you Gad. I've been enjoying some serious gaming on my DS. My PSP pretty much sits, unused. That is, until Castlevania Dracula X Chronicles comes out!

[ThaMaskedGamer]

I know of a lot of people on XBOX LIVE that have had problems with the 360. A lot of die-hard XBOXers that are really depressed by the problems they are having with the 360. People are sending out polls, in one a buddy of mine conducted 29/42 people who he knew on his friends list had problems.

Personally, I have had no issues. No freezing, no 3 red rings of death. I have a launch unit also. I have a friend(offline real world) who has a 360 no problems for him either. Oh also my co-worker has one, no problems.

I think the heating issue might be very relevant. My unit is in the basement it is normally very cool down there and downright cold in the winter. So I know overheating is not a problem. Plus my 360 is not on top or underneath another component, it is not enclosed like behind a glass door. I don't move it around or take it to work and stuff, it just sits there, all I do is open and close the tray. That's not to say I baby it. I use the thing, and heck during the holidays it was on practically all day long with kids playing it.

My gamer score is about 7700 which is significantly less than Five and Glock which means they have used their machines more than i've used mine but at this point I don't think my 360 has any nasty surprises in store for me. I know Glock was experiencing symptoms that clued him in, i've had no symptoms.

I would say if u get a 360 for starters keep the room it is in cool, keep it in a secure ventilated spot on your AV wall or rack, don't stack it with other components, definitely don't put it on the floor or carpet like back in the day. At least this way you eliminate as many outside variables as possible and if anything happens you know its the fault of the machine you got. But with a 1 year warranty, you really can't go wrong. If anything was wrong you'd see symptoms inside of 1 year giving you time to take advantage of the warranty.

Either way its tough. Ideally a person would want to buy a system that he feels will give him the best entertainment, I don't think settling on a different system from fear of getting a buggy unit is a good choice either.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

To me, it all comes down to what games are availabe. Gears of War, Halo 3, Lost Planet, Dead Rising and the best versions of multiplatform fare is reason enough. And I would be a tool to forget to mention Viva Pinata to you. A game that I feel you and your wife would quickly become addicted to. Bioshock, Fable 2, Mass Effect...icing on the cake. You KNOW these will be good.



And add to that XBOX LIVE Arcade, which i'm just now getting around to using, I know for a fact Gadfly would love LIVE Arcade. Its to the point where I sit down and I don't if I wanna play a Live Arcade game or a game I bought in the store. I'm playing Lost Planet now, man did I underestimate this game. I guess it didn't matter as I was too busy with other games anyway. But LP is really fun. The boss battles are tough, at least on HARD, and the game is like a perfect mix of an old school arcade game and a nextgen video game. Sure it is shallow, but the bottomline is it is FUN!

[theWacoKid]

To add to the litany of problems the 360 possesses, one often overlooked is the 360's propensity to scratch discs. A number of 360 owners have reported that their 360's scractched their discs to the point where the disc was uplayable. MS, has of course, denied this.

But, just recently, along with revamped warranty plans which include replacing scratched MS first party discs for a $20 fee comes the following report.

Microsoft Admits to Fault in 360
It seems the scratched disks weren’t caused by users after all.

”After more than a thousand complaints by Xbox-360 users, saturday night Microsoft finally admitted that there is a fault in the game console. This happened in the TV-show(?) Kassa. The fault causes damage to DVD’s and CD’s that are being played. The Xbox 360 can cause scratches according to a press release by Microsoft. The company originally denied that it was their fault. For months Microsoft maintained that the gamers were responsible for the scratches on the disks.

After some research on the Xbox 360 it was found that the scratches were caused by a missing component in the lens. According to the data from Kassa it would appear that there are about 1 to 2 million Xbox’s that do not have this component.

During the broadcasting of the TV-show, Kassa promised to aid Microsoft with customer complaints in the form of repairs. It is however not possible to receive a new console.”

Kassa is apparently a well respected tv program in the netherlands. And this would explain why certain 360 owners have wound up with the scratched disc syndrome repeatedly while others have had no issues.

MS quality control FTW.

[Mochan]

What the, 10-20% of xbox 360s out there have a missing component? OMGWTFBBQ

[ilnadmy]

And then Xbots whine and moan about how Sony's customer service sucks and MS is just peachy.

I've said time and time again that MS dropping the Xbox like a hot potato was symptomatic of a long-running trend in MS customer service, not just a once-off "business decision". Now MS refuses to admit that its consoles are causing damage to CDs until the numbers became too large to ignore. Let's also not forget how MS's add-ons suck money out of consumers who want wi-fi or a larger hard drive, and how the red rings of death plague 360s the world over.

Until MS can make a system that, like my PS2, can go from launch to the launch of its successor without breaking down once, I'll stick to my Sony consoles. Not only that, but MS has to prove to me that they don't make decisions based solely on their bottom line and with complete and utter disregard to their paying customers.

[Dancer O_o]

What the, 10-20% of xbox 360s out there have a missing component? OMGWTFBBQ

I remember seeing a photo of Mexicans putting 360s together once.

[thelastword]

Live Stats & Results

<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=0 width=20 align=right border=0><TBODY><TR><TD><SCRIPT src="http://digg.com/tools/diggthis.js" type=text/javascript></SCRIPT>


</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
There have been 3133 survey submissions so far
This represents 0.31% of the 1,007,246 Gamertags registered to date

A total of 1922 users who responded to this survey left comments

Of the 3133 submissions:
1265 (40.38%) say they have NOT had a console fail
1208 (38.56%) say they've had one console fail
660 (21.07%) say they've had more than one console fail

Overall 1868 (59.62%) of submissions claim to have experienced Xbox 360 hardware failure

1297 (41.40%) submissions purchased their first Xbox 360 before January '06

Of these 1297 submissions:
874 (67.39%) claim their Xbox 360 broke
423 (32.61%) say their Xbox 360 is still going strong

The 1868 submissions citing problems collectively claim a total of 2986 broken Xbox 360s

Link (http://www.360-gamer.com/xbox360hardwarefailureresults.asp)

[Mochan]

I remember seeing a photo of Mexicans putting 360s together once.

The poor Mexicans, they got their hands dirty!

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

And then Xbots whine and moan about how Sony's customer service sucks and MS is just peachy.

I've said time and time again that MS dropping the Xbox like a hot potato was symptomatic of a long-running trend in MS customer service, not just a once-off "business decision". Now MS refuses to admit that its consoles are causing damage to CDs until the numbers became too large to ignore. Let's also not forget how MS's add-ons suck money out of consumers who want wi-fi or a larger hard drive, and how the red rings of death plague 360s the world over.

Until MS can make a system that, like my PS2, can go from launch to the launch of its successor without breaking down once, I'll stick to my Sony consoles. Not only that, but MS has to prove to me that they don't make decisions based solely on their bottom line and with complete and utter disregard to their paying customers.


The PS2 was crap I had 2 of them fail on me. I'm on my second 360 but my wife destroyed the first one thank god for Circuit City.

I don't know what Xbot's you are talking about several xbots here have complained about MS customer support.

Have to give it too sony though I'm surprised there aren't any reports of system problems especially with the new blu laser diodes good job there. Now if they can get some impressive games then they'll have something.

[The Buzz]

I've had my 360 fifteen months now with no problems what so ever thank you very much. Can't speak for a PS3 although I did have to replace my PS2 just out of warranty. I've never had a problem with a Nintendo or SEGA console.

[Dancer O_o]

I've had my 360 fifteen months now with no problems what so ever thank you very much. Can't speak for a PS3 although I did have to replace my PS2 just out of warranty. I've never had a problem with a Nintendo or SEGA console.

My first Dreamcast never worked after the power went out once when I was playing it, I still remember the game I was playing when it happened, Heavy Metal: Geomatrix. The other 3 still work fine. And a Japanese PS2 still works that I can't remember how old it is now, man that thing is fugly now that I look at it. I got an Atari Lynk somewhere around here that probably still works too, but that is a battery eating machine.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I've had my 360 for over a year, and I haven't had any problems with it (knocks on wood). I did get an extended warranty when I first got it, but that was when there was only a 90 day warranty for the system. If I still had a "go-to guy" at my EBGames, I can get another extended warranty for my current 360. I don't know how, but before he quit he said it could be done.

[Glockstar]

I don't know what Xbot's you are talking about several xbots here have complained about MS customer support.

He doesn't know what the frack he's talking about. He never knows what the frack he's talking about. He just generalizes. You can tell he's one of those guys who when he hears one person say something makes a hasty generalization and thinks that that's what everyone is saying or thinking.

[Glockstar]

To Gadfly,

If you're not super pumped to get a system because of it's library of games then wait.

Not to sound super negative here, but the PS3 could yet show signs of failure. My 360 got worse and worse as time went on, and it really buggered down right around the year mark. You want to be sure of the PS3's reliability then you best wait and see what time tells. And it's not like waiting is going to hurt anything - as there's nothing to play on it right now anyway.

Same goes for the 360. MS switched to new drives and have become real conscious of all the system failures and warranty repairs that have occurred. Have they adequately corrected their problem(s)? Are the new quieter drives more "reliable"? Time will show. If you were super enthused over it's games then I doubt this would even be a question you'd ask - you get it, you'd be excited about getting it, and you'd cover yourself with an extended warranty or product replacement plan. But seeing as you're not - seeing as how you're still pretty casual over the system and it's library of game - wait.

[folken001]

But what kind of logic is that? 360 is having hardware problem, and let's just assume everyone else will have the same problem? As far as I remember, ring of death has been around ever since 360 came out. So far, 5 month into PS3's lifespin, nothing siginicantly wrong has found with PS3's hardware. If nothing is wrong with PS3 now, it's very unlikely a big problem will surface all the sudden in the future. But, Glockstar is right about not getting a PS3 right now. It doesn't have too many games. I got it because I know I will get one no matter what.

Personally, I think it's lame that one has to buy extended warranty to ensure his/her products to work for a reasonable amount of time. I've never bought any extended warranty for any of my console ever. I think my PSX still works today.

[Gamer From '78]

And then Xbots whine and moan about how Sony's customer service sucks and MS is just peachy.

I've said time and time again that MS dropping the Xbox like a hot potato was symptomatic of a long-running trend in MS customer service, not just a once-off "business decision". Now MS refuses to admit that its consoles are causing damage to CDs until the numbers became too large to ignore. Let's also not forget how MS's add-ons suck money out of consumers who want wi-fi or a larger hard drive, and how the red rings of death plague 360s the world over.

Until MS can make a system that, like my PS2, can go from launch to the launch of its successor without breaking down once, I'll stick to my Sony consoles. Not only that, but MS has to prove to me that they don't make decisions based solely on their bottom line and with complete and utter disregard to their paying customers.

So far, so good with my 360. Though, I haven't had many "marathon" sessions of gaming on it. I tend to play for an hour or so and shut it down for the day for the most part. Not out of worry, but rather because my tendonitis starts killing me after about an hour.

My 360 sits on my A/V rack which has tempered glass shelves. It's wide open and I keep the house chilled with the A/C. I have noticed that after about 20 minutes, the air expelled from the back is rather warm. Warmer than the PS2 or any other system I can recall except maybe the Xbox. Here's to hoping she holds out for me.

But my 360 is catching a breather right now. Super Paper Mario and Guitar Hero (PS2) are keeping me busy right now to meet my gaming needs. Most of my time however is spent gardening, playing with the kids and spending time with my wife. Yes, Gamer From the Trailer has a life. Thank you, thank you.

[Mochan]

The Dreamcast was a rather fragile unit as far as I'm concerned, as was the PS1. The PS2 I thought was pretty sturdy although a few people I know in real life had issues with it so I guess I was just lucky.

My current PC though, this baby is on pretty much 24/7 and has never had a problem except for the 80mm fan I keep on the top blowhole, which wears out because it is upside down (the bearings give way after about every 9 months). I just replace it.

[Gadfly2317]

To Gadfly,

If you're not super pumped to get a system because of it's library of games then wait.


Good advice. What's weird is I get super-pumped, but then if I wait a bit or get distracted it goes away. Perhaps it's the ADD. I'm kinda glad I decided to wait more and instead invest in some more music equipment. I really have been a hair-trigger away from the 360 more than once, but haven't had any temptation yet for the Ps3, though it has things on the way I want. I can goof around with the Wii for now and I think it'll be pretty clear which system I want most towards the end of this year.

Even though the 360 has a lot of games I want, it's true that at least stuff like Oblivion, which I want, is available on both. And I AM super-impressed with Lair. Just a little more waiting should show if the Ps3 really can deliver a significangly more impressive experience. . . the Lair guys are big on motion control, and seem to be milking the system for all its worth. Whatever I get, its really just a supplement to Wii anyway, so I don't need a huge volume of titles, just a few really cool ones.

As far as system reliability, I was interested in the topic and to see how things were going so far, but in reality it's not a huge factor in my decision. If it breaks I'll replace it, that's just life in these times of cheap fall-apart corporate profiteering. (wait, what profit? I digress again.)

[Glockstar]

That's not ADD, that's OCD. I should know, I got it too. :p

My advice: you need to stomp out all such urges until Lair comes out. Or, to be more precise, until the Lair reviews start coming in.

-

OT:

Mile Davis quotes... nice.

That's one of the many new interests I have in my life - entered into during this "time of trouble" that I've been going thru lately: jazz. And tea. :wink5: (Been hanging out at coffee shops a ton lately.)

[Fivespot]

Kind of Blue is a great jazz CD to listen to while going through times of trouble, so I'm going to recommend it to you. Oh and it's by Miles Davis.

[Glockstar]

Got it already. Thanks. (And also got 'Round About Midnight and Birth of the Cool.)

[Gadfly2317]

That's one of the many new interests I have in my life - entered into during this "time of trouble" that I've been going thru lately: jazz. And tea. :wink5: (Been hanging out at coffee shops a ton lately.)

You too? I don't want to go into it, but stuff has been really weird and unpleasant lately.

Anyway, not to go into another off topic thread, PM me if you want to chat about it more, but one of my favorite things in the world is exotic, single estate loose-leaf tea. It's great, because its something you can be a connoseiur at dirt cheap, as opposed to wine. My favorite place to get tea is www.uptontea.com. Check it out, order their free print catalogue. It's not shiny, full of pictures or goofy names, its just one of the best, most diverse sources for high-grade tea anywhere.

You guys at this site continue to surprise and amaze me.

[ilnadmy]

(Been hanging out at coffee shops a ton lately.)

That's only because hot chicks work at coffee shops. :cool:

[Mochan]

I can brew a mean cup of tea. The chicks come to me.

[Glockstar]

You too? I don't want to go into it, but stuff has been really weird and unpleasant lately.

Anyway, not to go into another off topic thread, PM me if you want to chat about it more, but one of my favorite things in the world is exotic, single estate loose-leaf tea. It's great, because its something you can be a connoseiur at dirt cheap, as opposed to wine. My favorite place to get tea is www.uptontea.com. Check it out, order their free print catalogue. It's not shiny, full of pictures or goofy names, its just one of the best, most diverse sources for high-grade tea anywhere.

You guys at this site continue to surprise and amaze me.

Well before you get too excited I think I should clarify something: When I said tea I should've actually said Chai. :blush2:

Powdered chai mixes at home - Mystic Chai and Green Tea Chai Latte by Pacific Chai - especially when mixed with Ghirardelli's Double Chocolate cocoa - for a "mocha chai" - yum... and Chai Lattes at the coffee shops - Starbucks > Beaners > Caribou Coffee - (for some reason Beaners and Caribou don't use black tea like they're supposed; don't know about Starbucks...) - haven't tried Coffee Beanery's yet... like to order them special - with white chocolate/cocoa - then add cinnamon - tons of cinnamon - on top. Care to talk about chai? :p

But, as the saying goes, "The more things change, the more they stay the same"... I'm really into coffee now. Particularly espresso drinks. Mochas. Lattes. I want an espresso machine for home. I. Am. Addicted. (I'm buzzing right now.)

As far as tea goes - regular tea... sorry... I still think it tastes like... well, it's just dirty water. Again, sorry. I know, I know, I haven't had yours...

[Glockstar]

That's only because hot chicks work at coffee shops. :cool:

You know... it is a phenomenon...

[Mochan]

What exactly is a Chai? Is that supposed to be a derivation for the words for tea in foreign languages? Is that like a mocha tea?

Some tea really is pretty much just dirty water -- like the house tea you get in many Japanese restaurants; one tea I tried at a place called Teriyaki Boy basically tasted like burnt water... don't ask, it just does. The taste of ash is thick in your mouth.

But try out some fine green or white tea, it's awesome. Then you can try mixing blends, or turning them into milk teas. Black tea in particular mixes well with milk and with a little pinch of salt, spice or what not you can come up with a superb, very addicting drink. I like having some Earl Grey with whole milk, then adding a dash of salt and cinnamon.

[Glockstar]

Then you can try mixing blends, or turning them into milk teas. Black tea in particular mixes well with milk and with a little pinch of salt, spice or what not you can come up with a superb, very addicting drink.

That's pretty much what Chai is.(!) But with one other key ingredient: a sweetener. The classical sweetener is honey.

[Mochan]

Ah in that case Chai is my thing. I don't always add sweetener. But sometimes I'm in the mood for it. If I add sweetener it would be caramel syrup. If I do that though I would ice the tea as well and thicken it a bit with cream. And maybe even put some ice cream on top.

[Glockstar]

I don't know one tea from the other, but apparently Green Tea is the one that I've been consuming. That's what my one powdered Chai is. And that's what the coffee shops are serving in their Chai's. (Even though it's supposed to be Black Tea.) I think I've heard that Green Tea is supposed to be good for you, or something like that, tho'.

[trebor]

I think I've heard that Green Tea is supposed to be good for you, or something like that, tho'.

Most tea is supposed to be good for you, since it is loaded with antioxidants. But interestingly enough, I recently found out that if you add milk or cream to your tea (cream and sugar in black tea = yum) it basically cancels the health benefits.

So, since most chai is loaded with milk that you buy at coffee houses, it most likely isn't providing you any health benefit at all. It's still yummy and good, though.

[ilnadmy]

Actually - and I don't know if this is where the word comes from - the word Chai is Arabic for tea. That's why the first time I walked into a coffee shop and saw the words "Chai Tea" I nearly bowled over laughing my ass off.

There you go though, crazy sh** happens sometimes. I love Chai though, I must say. I'm no connoisseur, but a steaming cup of Vanilla Chai is always welcome.

[Mochan]

That's probably where it came from, or one of those.. like I said I thought it was a derivative word. Tea in Japanese is cha. In Filipino it is Tsaa (chaa if you will). I believe the word is similar in Chinese and in Spanish.

[slade]

Chai is the Urdu word for tea. It may well be the same in Arabic though as Urdu is just a derivation of the language.

[Glockstar]

...Powdered chai mixes at home - Mystic Chai and Green Tea Chai Latte by Pacific Chai - especially when mixed with Ghirardelli's Double Chocolate cocoa - for a "mocha chai" - yum... and Chai Lattes at the coffee shops - Starbucks > Beaners > Caribou Coffee - (for some reason Beaners and Caribou don't use black tea like they're supposed; don't know about Starbucks...) - haven't tried Coffee Beanery's yet... like to order them special - with white chocolate/cocoa - then add cinnamon - tons of cinnamon - on top. ...

Ooh, I forgot about Oregon Chai concentrate! How could I forget that? > All of them.

[theWacoKid]

If you tree hugging tea sipping ***gots don't mind, there's a system wars to get back to and some conosle bashing that needs your attention.

[ilnadmy]

Would you like some Chai, Waco?

[Cuddly Knife]

Hey, I'm Mexican. There's no problem with Mexicans, and if you're inferring that they are all thieves, then Fvck You, holmes.

And now back to tea and hard times, my only way to communicate online currently is at a coffee shop, so I'm guessing I'll be getting into the java mode again. Anyone recommend anything good to drink?

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Hey, I'm Mexican. There's no problem with Mexicans, and if you're inferring that they are all thieves, then Fvck You, holmes.

And now back to tea and hard times, my only way to communicate online currently is at a coffee shop, so I'm guessing I'll be getting into the java mode again. Anyone recommend anything good to drink?

Damn there sure is a lot ethnicities on this board. I never realized how diverse it is.

[Mochan]

Don't be silly Cuddly, everyone knows that all Mexicans are ninjas.

[ilnadmy]

Hey, I'm Mexican. There's no problem with Mexicans, and if you're inferring that they are all thieves, then Fvck You, holmes.

And now back to tea and hard times, my only way to communicate online currently is at a coffee shop, so I'm guessing I'll be getting into the java mode again. Anyone recommend anything good to drink?
Hola. Que tal. Arbol.

And that's all I've got.

[Glockstar]

Hey, I'm Mexican. There's no problem with Mexicans, and if you're inferring that they are all thieves, then Fvck You, holmes.

And now back to tea and hard times, my only way to communicate online currently is at a coffee shop, so I'm guessing I'll be getting into the java mode again. Anyone recommend anything good to drink?

Your situation sounds a lot like mine, bro. As far recommendations... anything with coffee in it.

COFFEE!!!


But hey it's funny that this thread got resurrected last nite/today... because speaking of the babes earlier... Kirsten Dunst (well, you know what I mean) is setting across the shop from me right now. I'm having trouble concentrating here...

[ilnadmy]

Eww Kirsten Dunst? God she's ugly.

[Glockstar]

OMIGOSH... I just had the Coffee Beanery's Chai, and IT IS THE BEST! It kicks the others' azzez. When you order it they are going to ask you if you want it vanilla or spiced... I got the spiced one: WOW!

[Dancer O_o]

Hey, I'm Mexican. There's no problem with Mexicans, and if you're inferring that they are all thieves, then Fvck You, holmes.

And now back to tea and hard times, my only way to communicate online currently is at a coffee shop, so I'm guessing I'll be getting into the java mode again. Anyone recommend anything good to drink?

I was referring to Mexicans because they are putting some of the 360s together or were, it was a referrerance to check quality of workmanship not theft. I have no clue if in Mexico they assemble and manufacture the 360s or just assemble only. A lot of effort has been put forth to find the one overriding cause of 360s crapping out and still nil on that effort in the main. It is a valid question to ponder because it is factual that a good portion of 360s have some problems.

I usually consider a Grande Mocha a treat when I go to Starbuck$...

And if you have BF2 for 360 lets play some Cuddles, I'll be on that kick for a week or so. When I fly the helos....they all run, and die.