Are Wii done already?

[Gamer88]

Where are all the new Wii games? My friend hasn't gotten a new game since launch, (not including the virtual console) and to tell the truth the novelty of the Wii is started to wear out.

I just want to know where you guys stand on this? Everyone still enjoying the Wii?

Supposebly according to Gamecrazy they should be recieving a flood of Wii's in the next couple weeks (heck, maybe even as I type this actually) so they should be available soon....but without any real software outside of Twilight Princess (already got it for the cube) is their any reason to even buy it?

[trebor]

The Wii has been out for 5 months - how about a smidge of patience? There are still more reasons to get a Wii than a PS3 at this point, and the next gen 'started' when that was released, remember?

Factoring in the crazy long drought that went along with the 360 launch, the Wii actually is blowing away the other two systems, relatively speaking. I mean, for almost one full year, the 360's library basically consisted of one single 'must have' title with Oblivion - leading to many debates about how MS totally squandered their year head start.

So, no Wii aren't done yet and yes, there are a lot of reasons (current and future) to get a Wii.

[Gadfly2317]

I for one will say the drought sucks, and I'm not one of the people especially hyped about the new Paper Mario. Actually, I'm playing God Father Blackhand, which is decent. I can attest the Wii is great for choking someone to death.

As far as "Wii over" well no. The Wii hasn't even gotten started. There were a few decent launch titles not counting the GC Zelda port, but none of the big hitting titles are here, and few experimental or adult titles yet either.

Again, there's a drought, it's a problem and a weakness and no one denies it exists, but third parties were late to the show because no one knew how big a hit it was gonna be, and Nintendo always has this big lag after launch. They had it with the GC where we didn't get a title until the summer Mario Sunshine and the fall Metroid.

I'm most stoked about Manhunt II and No More Heroes, but Animal Crossing Wii, Metroid Corruption, Mario Galaxy and SSBB will get the system rolling later.

There's a lot of titles that may or may not suck, but which do sound really cool like Project Hammer, Day of Disaster, and Sadness. Stuff like Sadness sounds the coolest but may well suck most, being from a new and unproven developer.

[MoNkEy MaN X]

For me with the current line up, the novelty has worn off... Actually it wore off quite some time ago. I've yet to finish Zelda, I'm making my way through it at a slow pace. I think there are going to be problems where developers make games for the Wii and the controls are just awkward. Like, games that shouldn't be using a motion controller but do anyways just because it is there.

I sold Excitetruck... Didn't care for the control method much. It just didn't feel right. Actually, I turned on the motion sensitive for Motorstorm and turned it right off after with PS3... It reminded me of playing Excitetruck and how much I didn't like the motion controller with a driving game.

Wii will have it's games eventually, hopefully people don't lose interest for Nintendo's sake.

[Mochan]

It's happening with the DS, so I don't see why it won't happen on the Wii (games using controls just because it's there). I mean Ninja Gaiden DS it the absolute stupidest control scheme I've heard in a long time.

[ilnadmy]

Try playing the James Bond shooter on the DS. I have to hold the stylus up against the screen to aim, use my left thumb to control the character with the D-pad, and use my pinky fingers to shoot using the triggers. And if you get two weapons? Each trigger only fires one.

Yeah. Didn't make it through 2 minutes of that game.

[TPoD]

Where are all the new Wii games? My friend hasn't gotten a new game since launch, (not including the virtual console) and to tell the truth the novelty of the Wii is started to wear out.

I just want to know where you guys stand on this? Everyone still enjoying the Wii?

Supposebly according to Gamecrazy they should be recieving a flood of Wii's in the next couple weeks (heck, maybe even as I type this actually) so they should be available soon....but without any real software outside of Twilight Princess (already got it for the cube) is their any reason to even buy it?

Yeah, I have definately hit a wall with my enjoyment of the Wii. When people come over and they see the console they defiantely want to check it out, and that is a testament to the power of the Wii with the non-gaming crowd. Most of my friends fall into that category. Most of my alone time is spent with the 360 at this point, except that I have been getting into Tiger a little more since I have been able to cope better with its control idiosyncracies with more practice. There are some titles on the way that seem worthwhile...Mario, Metroid, SSBM, Manhunt, and Sadness...but for now unless you are planning on hosting some Wii parties there is not much to speak of.

[trebor]

I still think peeps are taking things out of context - this is still a new system and we are also heading into Summer, which is always slow for gaming. If it is ok that the 360 didn't start hitting it's stride until nearly a year after it was released, than it is an unfair expectation to make of other new systems.

Nevertheless, with games like Twilight Princess, Rayman Raving Rabbids, WarioWare Smooth Moves, and the newly released Super Paper Mario, there are still more worthwhile games than what's on the PS3 at the moment, in my opinion.

[Mochan]

Metroid Prime's controls also felt forced. Not as bad as that James Bond deal but still bad. Though trebor would disagree....

As for taking things out of context, I agree with trebor, the Wii is still a young system and it's not unconventional for the games to not be there yet at this point in time.

Still, it's true that the interest in Wii at this point should be tapering off for most "normal" gamers due to the lack in games.

[trebor]

Metroid Prime's controls also felt forced. Not as bad as that James Bond deal but still bad. Though trebor would disagree....

I'm assuming you mean Metroid Prime Hunters, and yeah, I disagree... somewhat.

I do think they were difficult controls at first and definitely required getting over a steep learning curve.

[Mochan]

Yeah, I meant Hunters. Well anyway I think the controls there were a good idea -- touchscreen is still better for aiming IMO -- but I think it could have been done better. I think the formfactor of the DS just didn't make this kind of control scheme very natural.

My real problem with Hunters though was the graphics, I just couldn't stomach the cruddy graphics.

[trebor]

My real problem with Hunters though was the graphics, I just couldn't stomach the cruddy graphics.

Well, what were you expecting? For a DS game, MPH had pretty great graphics, for a PC/360/PS3 game, yeah they were crap. Although, if that is your mode of thought, you might as well stick with your PC and never touch another game console or handheld again...

[Mochan]

Bottom line is, the graphics just weren't up to par for this kind of game, so I opted not to play it.

No need to preach the "might as well never touch a handheld ever" line, certain kinds of games and their graphics can work well enough on this kind of system, but FPS surely isn't one of them, not with these graphics, not in this day and age.

Invoking this kind of argument makes me want to go into l33t "You suck you just play low-res crappy graphics games I play in HD huzzah" Mode and that makes me nothing more than an ass, but it works the other way too "You graphics whore you can't talk about anything but shaders and 1080p but I may play on low-tech systems but ooh the gameplay you'll just never understand!" and that actually makes you an ass, too.

[Tappy_Tibbons]

I am waiting before I get a Wii, I no longer ever look or ask if they are available.

[Gadfly2317]

It's happening with the DS, so I don't see why it won't happen on the Wii (games using controls just because it's there). I mean Ninja Gaiden DS it the absolute stupidest control scheme I've heard in a long time.

OK, now you are just spewing horsesh!t again. The only thing that's happening with the DS is that we've had a ton of great, original games and its the best selling system in the history of gaming. If we get that from the Wii, then I'll be happy, even if PC graphics whores are not.

Maybe they'll release a keyboard/mouse attachment for the DS for you.

[Dancer O_o]

Where are all the new Wii games? My friend hasn't gotten a new game since launch, (not including the virtual console) and to tell the truth the novelty of the Wii is started to wear out.

I just want to know where you guys stand on this? Everyone still enjoying the Wii?

Supposebly according to Gamecrazy they should be recieving a flood of Wii's in the next couple weeks (heck, maybe even as I type this actually) so they should be available soon....but without any real software outside of Twilight Princess (already got it for the cube) is their any reason to even buy it?

I'd rather devs take their time and create original titles for the Wii so all will benefit...unfortunately, most people at first are going to make stuff that tries to make a quick buck with little thought of actually giving us good gaming. Since I have seen quite a few turds for the Wii already I'm looking at each title very carefully before jumping in bed with it. Actually Wii games I've bought and/or played are Zelda, Rayman, Sonic and Wiisports. All these titles are damned good if you are trying to find Wii games that smartly use the Wii controls.

Lately I have put everything away to play Resident Evil 4 (GC) and have enjoyed the hell out of it so far (17 hours in/ still disc 1), there are so many good GC games out there I could care less how fast they make the good Wii games...they will come eventually. On the weekends I have to play the God of War game I just bought because my girlfriend turns green and hurls chunks when she has to stomach too much Resident Evil....unfortunately. I think this GOW (the first game) is excellent so far as well, Kratos is one bad mofo and as angry as I am.

In the end, I think the Wii is just getting started and will continue to smote Sony with a dark vengence.

[Gadfly2317]

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aqIxhE5wBtwc&refer=home

It's not just speculation that publishers and devolopers are scrambling to play catch up with the Wii.

Face it, most publishers were playing the tried and true and had their dev resources on the Ps3, and of course already working on 360. But with Wii stomping Ps3, as this article points out, companies are scrambling to get their top tier stuff over to the Wii, and not just shovel over crap like Ubisoft did with Far Cry.

And like Trebor pointed out in the Spider Man thread, there's going to be a lot of stuff ground up for the Wii, and probably some really good conversions. The two Resident Evil games in the works for the Wii look spectacular.

[Mochan]

OK, now you are just spewing horsesh!t again. The only thing that's happening with the DS is that we've had a ton of great, original games and its the best selling system in the history of gaming. If we get that from the Wii, then I'll be happy, even if PC graphics whores are not.

Maybe they'll release a keyboard/mouse attachment for the DS for you.


Blah blah blah I mean yeah I know you love the DS but there are games that have "sh!t" for controls (like that James Bond game ilnadmy pointed out), I'm not just talking horsesh!t here.

We already went through this in my topic asking for DS games with "revolutionary controls" and there weren't that many titles you could come up with. Yes, we have games like Kirby's Canvas and Nintendogs and Meteos but for each one of those we have a hundred other games that can be played on the PSP just fine. Sure we'll lose gimmicks like touching the screen to break ice blocks ala Dawn of Sorrow but those are, as I said, just cheap gimmicks and we can do without them.

Tons of great original games? Don't confuse selling tons of units and software for having tons of original games. When we're talking PS2 you just say it has a ton of quirky games, but you never harp on it being original. PS2 sold just as much as the DS if not more, the two are on even ground yet the DS has "tons of original" games while the PS2 has "tons of quirky" games?

Don't let the DS's sales figures blind you a great deal of the software on the DS belong to the "hundreds of other games that could be played on the PSP."

By all means, if you think you have enough ammo to prove me wrong go ahead. List me more games that are "truly original" and really push gaming beyond its previous boundaries.

We have Meteos, Kirby's Canvas, Nintendogs, Trauma Center, etc. go ahead list me more games I'm interested in growing my DS library.

[Gadfly2317]

Lately I have put everything away to play Resident Evil 4 (GC) and have enjoyed the hell out of it so far (17 hours in/ still disc 1), there are so many good GC games out there

RE4 is being redone with Wii controls for stabbing and shooting. And the multi-path light-gun style RE game that's being made is what I'm most looking forward to. I like the old-style shooting-gallery stuff.

[Gadfly2317]

Don't let the DS's sales figures blind you a great deal of the software on the DS belong to the "hundreds of other games that could be played on the PSP."

By all means, if you think you have enough ammo to prove me wrong go ahead. List me more games that are "truly original" and really push gaming beyond its previous boundaries.

We have Meteos, Kirby's Canvas, Nintendogs, Trauma Center, etc. go ahead list me more games I'm interested in growing my DS library.

Look, I was criticizing your blanket statement; I got that you were saying the Wii and DS were simply gimmick control systems. I won't argue with you that there are a lot of crap games, just like on every system that's ever existed.

I also don't feel like every single game has to be a total revolution in gameplay to be improved by the Wii and DS controls. As much as I value new types of games like Trauma Center, I am just as happy with a traditional game like Final Fantasy Tactics where I can more fluidly and easily navigate menus and see items on a second screen.

Like on the Wii, it's not like I've never shot or choked anyone in a game before, but I absolutely love the way you choke someone in God Father, and than hold them while you b!tch slap them around; the game is not some macro-evolution or a new type of game, it's the same old Godfather/GTA ripoff it always was, but the controls add a lot.

[Mochan]

I also don't feel like every single game has to be a total revolution in gameplay to be improved by the Wii and DS controls

Well I do agree with you there... a game doesn't have to be an innovation to make good use of better controls. I will hold though that certain games don't really make good use of the added controls. Casltevania Dawn of Sorrow is one popular example I like to go back to here, and there are others.

Let's just say I too was criticizing your blanket statement of DS's software library.


I didn't mean to generalize with my blanket statement on the DS using its controls "just because." I'm just saying that it does happen on the DS, and more often than I would like, so this could be a precedent for the same thing happening on the Wii as MMX was afraid of.

When you get games like Castlevania Dawn of Sorrow that just use the touchscreen "just because" it sort of gets on my nerves. Then you get games like Ninja Gaiden announced that seem to me like it's just trying to be gimmicky (it even wants you to hold the DS in a gimmicky way!) then you can understand my concern.

Games like Metroid Hunters aren't quite in this category -- it's nice that this game is trying to do something new, even if I don't like how it did it.

Games like Bomberman are how I like it (and fit into your statement above) -- it has the touchscreen but doesn't try to be gimmicky about using it. It just uses it for things that make sense -- going through menus (though granted voice activated bombs are a bit gimmicky). I'm sure there are other games that will be like the Godfather thing -- not exactly new but the controls are used in a way that makes sense. As long as the Wii does things like that I'll be happy.

HOWEVER ... I will still take point to the system having lesser graphics. If Godfather came out on the PS3 or 360 and it has better graphics and conventional choke controls, this is still a point against the Wii even if it has the choke controls thing. I'm saying all's fair in love and war, better controls in one game are cool, but better graphics are too. Some improvements can be mindblowing, some not. Gears of War had mindblowing graphics, that's a big point to it and I'm sure if GOW came to the Wii it wouldn't be anywhere near as mindblowing. We don't quite have that Wii game that has a mind-blowing control scheme yet, just great enhancements to existing controls. They aren't quite mindblowing yet but we can hope in the future for such games.

[GameLegend]

Dear God i cant stand any more golf games for the Wii.

[MoNkEy MaN X]

I think the big thing now on the home consoles is that "cinematic" style gameplay like Gears of War. It feals like you are part of a movie when you play. You have top notch graphics and surround sound... Both of these are something the Wii just won't have due to lack of support through the system itself. Sure games will always look alright but that is just it. I think the system is probably capped out graphically at Zelda and in a couple years, that is going to be unacceptable to some.

The thing is, the control on the Wii is just alright. Most games it feels forced on. The only time I actually like it with Zelda is aiming arrows and stuff, but for combat it is just lame central and it feals cheaply done and not well thought out. No matter how you move the Wii controller, Link will swing the sword in the same mannor. Well, except for the thrusting motion which doesn't always get picked up on.

After playing ExciteTruck though I can safely say there won't be many good racing games using this control method.

I know people keep bashing PS3 for lack of games but heck, there is only one game I own on the Wii(excluding VC games) and 3 I own on PS3. Thing is though, I'm being patient. I'm sure at least Nintendo will come out with some good stuff.

Side note, why the heck are they remaking RE4 which isn't even that old? Make something new and truely utilize the Wii controller Capcom.... Please.

[folken001]

It's hard to make an innovative game on Wii, imo. If anyone makes one, it has to be impressive. Anything less would be classified as another reason why people shouldn't get aWii. That's the problem Wii will face in the future. All in all, the charm of Wii never lasts with me for more than a few hours. Nintendo is just still leeching off people who haven't touched a Wii yet.

[trebor]

It's hard to make an innovative game on Wii, imo. If anyone makes one, it has to be impressive. Anything less would be classified as another reason why people shouldn't get aWii. That's the problem Wii will face in the future. All in all, the charm of Wii never lasts with me for more than a few hours. Nintendo is just still leeching off people who haven't touched a Wii yet.

To me it seems the PS3 is in the same boat, but they can't even get people to buy it in the first place.

[folken001]

To me it seems the PS3 is in the same boat, but they can't even get people to buy it in the first place.

PS3 is in the same boat. I don't disagree. They both don't have too many games. But, down the road, it's easier to please people with better graphics than innovative game mechanics. That is when PS3 will start to sell more and Wii start to sell less.

Btw, tigerwood golf looks horrible on Wii.

[Mochan]

I have to agree with Folken. I'm not exactly a PS3 lover right now but in 3 years time the Wii isn't going to look so hot and the PS3 will hopefully be on better ground. Can the Wii's wiimoto mechanics save it down the road? I don't think that's the differentiating factor. If anything what will pay off for the Wii is that it will be the cheapest to develop for because you don't have to worry about high budget graphical wizardry.


While I don't quite think that the Wii has "capped off" with Zelda, I don't think it has much legs in the console race in the long run. It'll survive on cheapness and not technological longevity.

[Gadfly2317]

. I'm saying all's fair in love and war, better controls in one game are cool, but better graphics are too. Some improvements can be mindblowing, some not.

I can totally agree with that, which is why I want a Ps3 or a 360 too. I do totally wish the Wii not only sported those cool controls, but the best graphics as well.

Of course, the Ps3 is selling like ass at that price, and by the time Ps3 hits mainstream price, maybe Nintendo is going for shorter console lifespans by offering a product that is so inexpensive to begin with.

Personally, I'd love to see the Wii-2 in spring of 2010, a mere 3 1/2 year lifespan. No one is expecting the Ps3 to really start rolling until 2009, and what a great way to choke it out of existence but to release another innovative console with "dated" Ps3 level graphics in 2009-2010 at $249.

[trebor]

PS3 is in the same boat. I don't disagree. They both don't have too many games. But, down the road, it's easier to please people with better graphics than innovative game mechanics. That is when PS3 will start to sell more and Wii start to sell less.

Don't you mean it's easier to please YOU with better graphics over innovative game mechanics? Or rather, YOU and MOCHAN? Don't speak for everyone.


Btw, tigerwood golf looks horrible on Wii.

Maybe you should write a letter to EA, because it will be more effective than *****ing about it to me.


I have to agree with Folken. I'm not exactly a PS3 lover right now but in 3 years time the Wii isn't going to look so hot and the PS3 will hopefully be on better ground. Can the Wii's wiimoto mechanics save it down the road? I don't think that's the differentiating factor. If anything what will pay off for the Wii is that it will be the cheapest to develop for because you don't have to worry about high budget graphical wizardry.

I remember the same arguments in favor of the PSP over the DS, and look how that turned out.


While I don't quite think that the Wii has "capped off" with Zelda, I don't think it has much legs in the console race in the long run. It'll survive on cheapness and not technological longevity.

What does that even mean? Right now the Wii is kicking the crap out of the PS3 and even the 360 in monthly sales - do you think developers will still refuse to jump on board when the Wii becomes the console with the largest install base?

Don't kid yourselves - the PS2 didn't dominate the last console gen because of it's "technological longevity", as the Xbox cleanly outpowered and outclassed it on every level. It's the devlopers who determine who wins, not the tech specs.

[Dancer O_o]

Don't kid yourselves - the PS2 didn't dominate the last console gen because of it's "technological longevity", as the Xbox cleanly outpowered and outclassed it on every level. It's the devlopers who determine who wins, not the tech specs.[/QUOTE]

it's sorta the developer and consumer who determines win or loss, but I see your point.

I also get the feeling that you are miffed a bit that the Wii isn't getting the love it should here. Worry not, the Wii will be a force to recon with for years to come. Nintendo states that the Wii is more powerful than the GC and I believe it, but nobody bought the Wii expecting the graphics to be all that high end anyway, we all bought it for being different. The Wii controls are not entirely a next gen experience and they are not meant to be, Nintendo has stated before that it is a NEW generation experience, and they were right on with that.

EA has 13 titles coming this year, Activision has 4 lined up so far and UBISoft has God knows how many, so this will be a good Wii year but don't expect the heavy hitters until Fall. This Fall and Xmas season will be something amazing to watch as console developers fight it out for our dollars, this Xmas may make or break Sony one way or the other. Also, some more developers will most likely get super rich if they make something special for the Wii, I can't understand how a developer wouldn't want to make something great for the Wii with perfect controls, this really is the console for developers to have fun with and make something neat as the machine is apparently pretty easy to develop for. It's clear the UBISoft had fun making Rayman Rabbids because I watched some developer diaries on it and those Frenchies even had time to make amusing videos about themselves being molested by Rabbids right in their studio (good stuff). And the game is fun even if not perfect...and that sums up a lot of Wii games really.

[Mochan]

Don't you mean it's easier to please YOU with better graphics over innovative game mechanics? Or rather, YOU and MOCHAN? Don't speak for everyone.

See? Graphics whores can be snobs, but "innovation whores" can be, too.



I remember the same arguments in favor of the PSP over the DS, and look how that turned out.

And why is the DS doing better? Isn't a factor there the cost? Don't tell me it's the touchscreen that is selling the DS, because I don't buy it: as I've discussed with Gadfly many times, the great majority of DS games can be done on the PSP without any real consequence. The touchscreen/mike factors into some games but those games are few and far between, the majority of the software that gamers are buying could work just fine on the PSP without the DS's unique features. While it's true that some of the DS's biggest hits could only be done on the DS, a great deal of the software selling on it could be made for another handheld.

So I maintain my argument; it's not exactly the different gameplay mechanics that will make the Wii prosper, I feel it will be more due to it being the cheapest platform to develop for, and the cheapest console platform to get into this gen (cheapest hardware, cheapest games).


What does that even mean? Right now the Wii is kicking the crap out of the PS3 and even the 360 in monthly sales - do you think developers will still refuse to jump on board when the Wii becomes the console with the largest install base?

Hate to sound like an XBot, but the attach rates are important. Software sales is what the devs want to see, not necessarily just hardware sales.

The Wii is beating the the 360 and PS3 in sales today, but is this rate of adoptation going to last, and more importantly, is it going to last 3 years down the line with the hardcore gaming crowd that software developers want to target (as they buy the most games)? The DS is indeed a precedent but I'm not entirely convinced, because the DS is not the Wii and a handheld is not a console, the console marketplace is a totally different animal.


And yes the PS2 did not survive on technological longevity, but wait! Didn't I just say the Wii wouldn't, either? I agree that the developers are who determine who wins, but I'm not entirely convinced that the developers are all scrambling for the Wii, as far as I can tell they are still scrambling for the 360.

[Dancer O_o]

but I'm not entirely convinced that the developers are all scrambling for the Wii, as far as I can tell they are still scrambling for the 360.

Some are definately scrambling to make that quick buck it seems. Some are also ignoring the Wii because of technical limitations, I can't pull names off the top of my head but I do remember some developers blogs where they said the main reason they are ignoring the Wii is because they are doing some advance AI stuff and this is where the Wii will be hurting, in the AI department...apparently it takes some serious processing power to get realistic AI to work and the Wii is lacking for this. So Mochan is correct I think.

I do not understand why there would be devs. still scrambling for 360 title creation, GOW was coded up pretty fast from what I gather and the homebrewed 360 stuff at times looks good, better than I thought it would. Hell, MS is encouraging easy development for 360 with all the help you can get from them to boot, so scrambling 360 development is probably happening with companies that had problems already that had little to do with the actual 360 development kits or the architecture of the machines. We were all afraid that the 360 was gonna be the dumping grounds for old PC software looking for a second life, but fortunately we've seen some ground up stuff on 360 that even beats down some of the comparable PC titles.

[Mochan]

Hmm take note though when I said "scramble" I didn't mean they were cramming to do work on the 360 I mean more devs still seem to be working on the 360 than the WIi.

[Dancer O_o]

Hmm take note though when I said "scramble" I didn't mean they were cramming to do work on the 360 I mean more devs still seem to be working on the 360 than the WIi.

so noted.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

I mean, for almost one full year, the 360's library basically consisted of one single 'must have' title with Oblivion - leading to many debates about how MS totally squandered their year head start.



I don't know what you consider a must have game but the 360 had many aside from just Oblivion. In fact, i've still not really played much Oblivion cause I haven't had the time to get my hooks into it, and all the people who have been gaming on LIVE since day one with their 360s were not playing Oblivion on XBOX Live. COD2 was the reason I bought my 360, GRAW was the reason I bought my 360, FN3 and PGR3 ohh can't forget Condemned either. But those were all games I played before Oblivion. And there were many after Oblivion. I'm not saying they are all as good as Oblivion. But they certainly beat the snot out of what Wii is doing and PS3 to boot.

It just seems to me Nintendo nor Sony were truly ready to launch the next gen, even as late as 2006. The reality is with the PS2 doing so well Sony should have waiting until this holiday season '07 to launch PS3. As far as Wii, I just think this is the status quo for a Nintendo machine. Like I said before this happened to GC, it got off to a hot start, it sold +18 million machines, but in terms of good games on a consistent basis, not the machines calling card. I've said all along Wii is doing great in terms of moving hardware, but it seems to have fewer quality titles at or immediately following launch than the GC did. That's not MS' fault, it isn't XBX's fault, not anyone's problem but Nintendo's.