Preview of Metal Gear 4: Clone of Splinter Cell!!

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Here is a Gamespot article on Kojima's visit to the land down under where he talks about how he is going to rip-off certain aspects of SC:DA! <a href="http://www.gamespot.com/news/6168414.html?om_act=convert&om_clk=multimodule&tag=multimodule;picks;title;3">Metal Cell 4</a>

For those unfamiliar with SC:DA it utilizes a lot of the things Kojima is talking about. In fact the Kinsasha mission in SC seems to describe word for word what Kojima is trying to effectuate. Here Sam had to go to Africa and basically utilize stealth to complete his mission in the midst of a war between gov't forces and rebels. The opening mission where Sam was in-prison also took place in the midst of a prison riot, so Sam had to avoid guards/prisoners while they fought each other. Psychological aspects were very heaviliy used SC also, the game put the player in very stressful situation by starting a level with a certain amount of time and giving the player multiple primary objectives that had to be completed for the NSA and the JBA, but also sprinkling in secondary and tertiary objectives too. Failure to not appease one side or the other resulted in a loss of trust, which was reflected in a meter. If you failed your taskmasters too many times the mission failed.

Additionally the mini-games themselves were somewhat stressful and so to were some of the in-game decisions you had to make. To I frame Veronica and watch Emile shoot her or do I let the Cruise ship blow up? Other tense in game situation had you breaking into office and the like, just like any other SC game, but this time invariably people you couldn't kill because they were important to the overall operation would come back into the room or offfice, forcing you to find a locker or bed to hide under, sometimes while you listened to them talk about Sam.

These things made SC:DA a much different and better game than the old SC games. But with all of the different approaches you can take to make a game I really don't hold it against Kojima because there really aren't a lot of different approaches you can take to making a stealth game. So instead of infiltrating an enemy, you infiltrate neutral parties and playing up the psychological tension that goes along with spying, sneaking, and stealing is also just a natural evolution of these kinds of games. Plus I'm not going to criticize him since I was the main person saying he needs to do something to better to make a game that actually lives up to the incredible amount of hype it generates, looks like he is doing that.

[Dancer O_o]

Kojima probably wishes Splinter Cell never existed since it is such a hard act to follow and anything he makes now will always be compared to it or considered a cheap knock-off in some way. Where MGS could and should beat SC games is in the story, SC games have rather generic storytelling. IF they actually paid Tom Clancy to pen a real Splinter Cell story then there would probably be no way of any MGS title ever being in competition with SC games....but TC hasn't penned any of the SC games from what I know. Bah, this is all academic really since we all know the any MGS game coming out will be so convoluted and contrived with it's story as to make ones head hurt and automatically file it under who cares. And, every single SC ends up on all systems anyway because UBI Soft knows no console loyalty and rightly so.

One of the more fun multiplayer games I've played has been Mercs vs Spies multiplayer on Live. Being a Merc waiting for spies to infiltrate the computer rooms for download is a riot, just run run run in large circles with little flashlight until, opps, there you are you bastard..die! Check those corners, CHECK THOSE CORNERS! Another thing Kojima should consider is multiplayer, SC games are tough to beat in that department.

[ilnadmy]

Don't kid yourself, SCDA is good, but it's nowhere near as progressive as you make it out to be.

Here Sam had to go to Africa and basically utilize stealth to complete his mission in the midst of a war between gov't forces and rebels. The opening mission where Sam was in-prison also took place in the midst of a prison riot, so Sam had to avoid guards/prisoners while they fought each other.

Read: In addition to regular patrolling guards, there were scripted events where two people would fight and one would invariably die.

Psychological aspects were very heaviliy used SC also, the game put the player in very stressful situation by starting a level with a certain amount of time and giving the player multiple primary objectives that had to be completed for the NSA and the JBA, but also sprinkling in secondary and tertiary objectives too. Failure to not appease one side or the other resulted in a loss of trust, which was reflected in a meter. If you failed your taskmasters too many times the mission failed.

Read: Some missions had time limits, and they gave you secondary objectives. That's hardly psychological warfare.

To I frame Veronica and watch Emile shoot her or do I let the Cruise ship blow up?

Read: You get to make seemingly big decisions that reward you with a 2-second post-mission debrief. No kidding. 2 seconds is all I got after I decided to blow up the tanker before it moved onto describing my next mission. This lack of exposition was a main reason I stopped playing the game. Your "tough moral decisions" didn't seem to carry any consequences.

Other tense in game situation had you breaking into office and the like, just like any other SC game, but this time invariably people you couldn't kill because they were important to the overall operation would come back into the room or offfice, forcing you to find a locker or bed to hide under, sometimes while you listened to them talk about Sam.

Read: Unkillable quest NPCs.

Now don't get me wrong, I think Splinter Cell is a great game. I enjoyed the stealth gameplay and all, but no way is it all that you make it out to be. It also doesn't hold a candle to Metal Gear, but that's just my personal opinion.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

IF they actually paid Tom Clancy to pen a real Splinter Cell story then there would probably be no way of any MGS title ever being in competition with SC games....

One of the more fun multiplayer games I've played has been Mercs vs Spies multiplayer on Live. Being a Merc waiting for spies to infiltrate the computer rooms for download is a riot, just run run run in large circles with little flashlight until, opps, there you are you bastard..die! Check those corners, CHECK THOSE CORNERS! Another thing Kojima should consider is multiplayer, SC games are tough to beat in that department.

Yeah this thing with the JBA was the best story so far and it was far from enthralling lol. But I too would rather have a good game over a good story any day of the week.

As far as spies v. mercs, I haven't played it on 360. I don't know how much it has changed with DA. Glocky was saying it is really good, I borrowed the game so I never played DA's version. But I use to talk that up last gen on XBOX. I put so many hours into Spies v. Mercs, the first SC game to have it was the second SC game and there was nothing like it. I still consider that mode of play probably the best use of online gaming ever.

But i'm guessing the next Metal Gear will be better than SC:DA, single player. Course i could be wrong, but i'm guessing this will be the best Metal Gear game yet, then I think the Ubisoft will probably up the ante with the next exclusive version of SC on the 360.


Oh ILNADY just about everything you said was wrong lol. The game wasn't just 'put a time limit and that makes it stressful'. Dude that is stupid lol. I'll give you an example of what I mean by time limit. On one mission at the JBA compound Emile was preparing to go to Africa so he gives Sam 25 minutes to break the encryption on an email in order to tell if he is being set-up. So, the player also has like 3 other primary missions that must be completed! So you have to break the encryption as fast as you can so that you can have more time left to complete the other primary mission plus hopefully a secondary mission or two.

So after cracking that, on the highest difficulty, you might have 10-15 minutes left, in which you have to sneak all the way into Emile's office, which means you have slip by EVERYBODY and get past all kinds of levels of security. Get into Emiles office, then promptly hide when he all of a sudden returns to his office. Then after he takes a break, get into his safe, get out, and sneak all the way back to the office just in time for Emile to come in asking about the encrypted letter. It is pretty damn tense and there was NOTHING like this in the other SC games. What made it even more difficult was if you got caught in an unauthorize area, you had to completely vacate the area, lose a bit of trust and try and sneak back in. Of course some of the actions were scripted, but that is what makes the games so intense if you can actually do the missions right the first time, the scripted event is an actual surprise. Of course if you sit there and eff up and do it over and over, yeah all the suspense and tension is taken out of the game, and you of course probably blame that on the game!

Anyway this is way beyond the shooting out lights gimmick that the old SC games relied on.

[Mochan]

So where does Kojima come into this long rant of yours, TMG? I don't see him talking about anyhthing ripping DA off in anything you posted. As usual you are just pulling more stuff out of your ***.

[Superjoint Ritual]

Does any of this mean that MGS 4 won't suck like 3?

[ilnadmy]

Does any of this mean that MGS 4 won't suck like 3?
SILENCE, PEASANT!! THOU SHALT NOT BAD-MOUTH MGS!!

Seriously though, TMG, that's just a time limit. The whole point of a time limit is to make things tense. What you described was simply a time limit with a lot of objectives. That's nothing new.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

SILENCE, PEASANT!! THOU SHALT NOT BAD-MOUTH MGS!!

Seriously though, TMG, that's just a time limit. The whole point of a time limit is to make things tense. What you described was simply a time limit with a lot of objectives. That's nothing new.

Yeah you are right, Metal Gear always did this kinda stuff. Thanks for pointing that out.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

So where does Kojima come into this long rant of yours, TMG? I don't see him talking about anyhthing ripping DA off in anything you posted. As usual you are just pulling more stuff out of your ***.

That's cause you gotta A) Have played SC:DA B) Not be a Sony cheerleader.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Does any of this mean that MGS 4 won't suck like 3?

If you can suffer your way through the first 2/3 of the game the end of it steps it up quite a bit. The final encounter with Big Boss is absolutely ridiculous though I mean come on you are sitting there shooting a blond hair chick with a rocket launcher multiple times. There is nothing in the story to suggest she should be able to survive this.

The presentation of the fight is cool. At a point during the battle the Snake Eater theme cuts in an it really engrosses you.

[ilnadmy]

Yeah you are right, Metal Gear always did this kinda stuff. Thanks for pointing that out.
First of all, no it doesn't have timed levels per se. It does have some timed sequences, but if I'm not mistaken the only two are the sequence at the very end of MGS1 and the Volgin fight in MGS3, and even in MGS1 it wasn't really a time limit (if you've played the game and gone over the time limit you'll know what I'm talking about). There's more timed missions in SCDA than in the entire MGS series so far.

Also, I never said that timed missions are bad or that MGS never used them, as you imply. Just that timed missions ARE NOT EQUIVALENT to the developer using psychology to mess with you. It's a time limit. There's no simpler concept in gaming than time limits. Hell, in Mario every level had a time limit. By your definition that's a lot more stressful and psychological than SCDA.

[Dancer O_o]

Time limits are weak, I have enough to stress about thanks. Part of what I generally liked about sneak games was the ability to take your time to sit in a dark corner and watch guards walk patterns and such until you were sure of the timing needed to get through a certain area. Artificially creating tension through time limits is an old school trick that is tired as hell. I'd rather have the tension of knowing that someone is just over my shoulder trying to lay a world of hurt on me to keep me running than any other form of tense gaming. MGS games were real good at that at times, and of course Resident Evil was the master at that trick.

[Mochan]

I don't like time limits in games either, maybe for a level or two but like Dancer I prefer tension that comes from enemies stalking you than from time limits. Like in Thief the Dark Project, there were no time limits but in the 3rd mission where zombies you couldn't kill keep coming up and bothering you everywhere you go, it created a really thick air of tension.

Same thing with System Shock 2, where enemies hunted you and stalked you.

Today a modern game with enemies stalking you is, uh, Stalker. Very tense, Stalker has probably the thickest atmosphere in any game to date.

Coming up we will have Bioshock, which may be the new king of this hill.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Time limits are weak, I have enough to stress about thanks. Part of what I generally liked about sneak games was the ability to take your time to sit in a dark corner and watch guards walk patterns and such until you were sure of the timing needed to get through a certain area. Artificially creating tension through time limits is an old school trick that is tired as hell. I'd rather have the tension of knowing that someone is just over my shoulder trying to lay a world of hurt on me to keep me running than any other form of tense gaming. MGS games were real good at that at times, and of course Resident Evil was the master at that trick.

Ahh u just gotta play the game to understand what i'm talking about. First the actual field missions have no time limit. These missions are somewhat similar to the typical SC missions . But the timed missions are the Double Agent part of Splinter Cell. Here you are a trusted member of the JBA and are basically 'at home', you don't have any weapons and only a few gizmos, which you can't be caught using. Basically while back at base, Emile, the JBA leader will task you to do something simple, like prime mines. He'll tell you he will be back after a while, this is when the timer starts. Priming the mines involves playing a mini-game in which you use a robotic arm to guide a charge into the core of the mine using sometype of MRI scanner. It is a tricky mini-game and you have to do 10 mines. But you get like 20 or 25 minutes on the hardest dificulty, probably more on the easier difficulties. You really only need about 10 minutes but if u mess up a lot it might eat up 15 minutes. But u want to finish quickly so you can use the rest of the time to sneak around the headquarters trying to accomplish at least one NSA primary task, such as bug their communications and as many secondary tasks as possible. Usually you end up doing all the primary stuff and just trying to get done as many secondary tasks, like uploading medical files to NSA, as possible. If you don't finish the secondary tasks, no big deal, you can do them the next time there is a JBA mission. Its not like they set a time limit on the main part of the game and its not even like the time limit hampers the JBA missions, even if you go beyond the time limit, Emile will just start screaming for you to get back to your station and give u an extra 30 seconds before the trust meter starts going down.

I think the time-limit as well as the scripted events definitely created tension that did not feel artificial and also made for a better game because it put relevancy behind the mini-games.
Anyone could stand there all day taking their time doing a simple mini-game like breaking into a safe. But the reality is if you are under cover and are sneaking into unauthorized areas, you do NOT have all day. The time-limits and the scripted events worked hand in hand to capture this essence not to mention the expert level design and placement of things like lockers you could jump into to hide, desk and beds to hide under etc. This was much better than previous SC games in which all you had to do was hide in a shadow as if nobody could see you. Or other spy-games that really don't have any spy elements to speak of....

But yeah if you don't like true tension and pressure, then yeah this game you'd be a nervous wreck.

[Dancer O_o]

Sounds like there is more than enough time to complete most of the tasks you were talking about. Chaos Theory is as far as i have gotten in the SC series so far and i still haven't beaten it yet, a buddy of mine that sometimes posts here plays it with me on co-op....seriously good game for co-op play in my opinion. Help a chump up and he'll help you up too...good stuff, or, help a chump get thrown into a bad guy, even better. The last time i played it we were on some kind of bank job but kept getting busted before we even got in the building. All this talk of SC has me itching to play again, gonna go talk to my buddy now cause he just in the next room over, maybe I'll sneak up on him and yank him outa the chair Sam style...

I would hope that the MGS makers take the SC co-op to heart and make something if not similar at least as fun.

[theWacoKid]

SC:DA was a dud of a game. The whole JBA versus NSA objectives thing was a joke. I had no problem keeping both camps satisfied. The situations you were put in were contrived and poorly done.

Spoiler alert.

First time you need to make a decision is whether or not to kill a pilot or whoever and prove your loyalty to the JBA. Don't kill the pilot, and he gets shot by the jba anyway and they become suspicious of you. Shoot the pilot and they still don't trust you. So, what was the fu#$ing point of this episode again.

In a section where you're on board a tanker and have to find the captain of the ship, you have to kill basically everybody in sight. You're forced to do it. Try and sneak in and take the captain out, the game will not trigger the end of the level. Instead, you have to backtrack, kill everybody and then come back. Efffin stupid game design. Absolute crap.

SC:CT is definitely better than this game. SC:DA also underperformed in the sales department which is why it dropped so quickly in price. A rental.

[Dancer O_o]

To hear you tell it sounds like the series has devolved, a problem I have seen more and more with series based games of late. I see tons of reviews of games out that the reviewers are complaining that the game in question has better gameplay but weaker story, or, the game has the same gameplay but weaker story, or, they completely pooched the gameplay and story. Very few games lately have better of everything it seems. Hell, even Sega admits that Sonic needs a reboot, except I think the that Wii game is fun in classic haul ass Sonic style.

I was hoping that Splinter Cell on the PSP was gonna be good but it got crap reviews where Syphon Filter did not.

I predict a new Syphon Filter will trump all that come before it....eh, once it's made that is.

[Glockstar]

Yeah but you have to remember that that's the Wacko Kid speaking there. He's like Mikey, he hates everything. Seriously, when's the last time anybody heard the Kid relate a positive experience he had with a game? ...That wasn't an annual sports sim.

Waco's got his opinion. I got mine. And I loved it. Frickin' LOVED it. The 360 version that is. I didn't like the Xbox version. And yes, they are vastly different.

I also like the timed missions and segments. I thought they were great. I thought they fit in perfectly; that they made perfect sense. I mean come on, what? Like, 'Hey Sam, thanks for joining our criminal organization... we're laid back here so don't sweat anything... go ahead and relax; get acclimated... take the next few days off why don't you?... take as long as you need... and just come get me whenever you're ready to start; no rush'. :rolleyes:

[ilnadmy]

TMG, a time limit is not "true tension and pressure". True tension and pressure is Resident Evil where you've got a mansion full of enemies and only limited ammunition to use. True tension and pressure is Splinter Cell when three guards in a room glimpse you passing through some light and are all coming in your direction with flashlights. True tension and pressure is WoW when a level ?? elite is chasing your puny ass through a bunch of players from the opposing faction. True tension and pressure is Call of Duty with bullets whizzing by your ears, grenades falling in your lap, a tank bursting through a brick wall, and a pistol in your hand. True tension and pressure is NOT a time limit.

Again, Mario has a time limit. Mario never made me "a nervous wreck".

[theWacoKid]

Yeah but you have to remember that that's the Wacko Kid speaking there. He's like Mikey, he hates everything. Seriously, when's the last time anybody heard the Kid relate a positive experience he had with a game? ...That wasn't an annual sports sim.

Waco's got his opinion. I got mine. And I loved it. Frickin' LOVED it. The 360 version that is. I didn't like the Xbox version. And yes, they are vastly different.

I also like the timed missions and segments. I thought they were great. I thought they fit in perfectly; that they made perfect sense. I mean come on, what? Like, 'Hey Sam, thanks for joining our criminal organization... we're laid back here so don't sweat anything... go ahead and relax; get acclimated... take the next few days off why don't you?... take as long as you need... and just come get me whenever you're ready to start; no rush'. :rolleyes:

Yeah, right, whatever, glockenspiel. SC:DA is a significantly lower rated game than SC:CT as in 9 percentage points. So, I guess all the reviewers are just game haters like moi. The game has issues, you want to ignore them, fine, but don't tell me they don't exist, because they do. The game is no step forward, its a weak entry for the series. And the fact that this game is at a budget price already speaks volumes. Glad I dumped it when I did. I wasn't going to buy it, period, but Best Buy Canada was running a promotion where you got a 12 month live subscription free with a purchase of SC:DA.

The game doesn't blow, its just not that great. It was rushed and it shows.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

TMG, a time limit is not "true tension and pressure". True tension and pressure is Resident Evil where you've got a mansion full of enemies and only limited ammunition to use. True tension and pressure is Splinter Cell when three guards in a room glimpse you passing through some light and are all coming in your direction with flashlights. True tension and pressure is WoW when a level ?? elite is chasing your puny ass through a bunch of players from the opposing faction. True tension and pressure is Call of Duty with bullets whizzing by your ears, grenades falling in your lap, a tank bursting through a brick wall, and a pistol in your hand. True tension and pressure is NOT a time limit.

Again, Mario has a time limit. Mario never made me "a nervous wreck".

LOL if you think those games are examples of 'true tension' lol then you are clueless. I've played R.E.(not every single one) and i've played C.O.D. there was NO tension in those games. Maybe a teeny bit in COD2, for example when you were in the sniper tower and had to kill all those mortar teams. But SC the series in general has more tension than those games, and this game DA has more tension than any other SC game.

Basically the game uses 3 layers to create entire missions that are nerve racking and tensious. The first layer is the nature of the mission itself, you talked about having little ammo, you get NO ammo in this game, even the field missions. Sometimes you can find ammo. Then you only get a few gizmos, but not enough to zap or gas everybody you encounter. So you gotta sneak, hide, and hack your way through all kinds of preposterous scenarios. The next layers are what separates DA from the previous SC games; the scripted events have been boosted in terms of frequency. Sneak past right behind the doctor in a dimly office and begin hacking a terminal, bam, soon as you get near the computer, she gets a phone call. You were just happy to sneak past her and now you are freaking try to get under the desk. There are scripted events placed just right to cause a panic all over this game; then you have the timed aspects, which WERE NOT ON EVERY MISSION for cryin' out loud. But it makes more sense and makes a better game to put some pressure on these mini-games. Not only is there time limits, but when you prime the mines you only get 13 of them and you have to prime 10, if you eff up more than 3 you are screwed. No time limit anybody, like you, could sit there and make 10 bombs. Same thing with the range, anybody could take all day and hit perfect bullseyes. And with the secondary missions at the JBA HQ if there was no time-limit, you could just do them all in one missions taking it easy.

But this is the difference between PS gamers and XBOX gamers. PS gamers would rather watch a movie that features a little bit of simple gaming, where XBOX gamers want to be challenged.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Yeah, right, whatever, glockenspiel. SC:DA is a significantly lower rated game than SC:CT as in 9 percentage points. So, I guess all the reviewers are just game haters like moi. The game has issues, you want to ignore them, fine, but don't tell me they don't exist, because they do. The game is no step forward, its a weak entry for the series. And the fact that this game is at a budget price already speaks volumes. Glad I dumped it when I did. I wasn't going to buy it, period, but Best Buy Canada was running a promotion where you got a 12 month live subscription free with a purchase of SC:DA.

The game doesn't blow, its just not that great. It was rushed and it shows.

This game is much better than Chaos Theory. I'm talkin' single player. I think you need to take a step back and get over your hatred for the JBA aspects of the game, which I loved. It kinda brought the tempo down and let you catch your breath a bit. But if you look at the scope and magnitude of the main field missions they made the previous SC games look like peanuts. This was truly some Mission Impossible type sh*t and I would think people who complained that the previous games were too cut and dry or too militaristic would agree that they developers certainly infused a bit more fantasy into this game.

And they also made it possible to sneak and attack from darkness much better so that the games didn't devolve into a fire-fight which in no could Sam really win. The mission you complained about took place in the arctic. That's a pretty cool mission. I'd rather sneak around snowly glaciers, dive under frozen lakes and pull enemies down through cracked ice, swim behind their boats and pull them underwater, sneak to their tents, slice through the tent and choke them while asleep, then sneak on-board an oil tanker and gas the crew. I agree with you, I didn't like being forced to kill sooo many people, but that was a story element, I didn't like having to kill RAAM the way I did at the end of GOW either, I thought that was stupidly impossible. But that was just one story element that didn't ruin the mission or the game, for me. But i'd rather have this incredible mission than the stuff in previous SC games.

[ilnadmy]

What are you talking about no ammo? I went through the game shooting every single guard in the head and there was enough ammo for me to do that.

I've played R.E.(not every single one) and i've played C.O.D. there was NO tension in those games.

You, sir, are absolutely clueless. COD is the DEFINITION of tension in a video game. RE to a lesser extent (at least as far as I'm concerned), but it still oozes tension a lot better than SC ever did.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

What are you talking about no ammo? I went through the game shooting every single guard in the head and there was enough ammo for me to do that.



You, sir, are absolutely clueless. COD is the DEFINITION of tension in a video game. RE to a lesser extent (at least as far as I'm concerned), but it still oozes tension a lot better than SC ever did.

Oh well that may have been the difference between the easier difficulties and the hardest difficulty. I didn't play any of it on the easier difficulties. There were only a few missions where they started you out with ammo. The rest had none but could come across some ammo, even then I rarely used it. I think that is the problem with a lot of gamers the difficulty level is there for a reason, get in where u fit in, don't just play on normal.

As far as the rest of what you said COD, the definition of tension, lol, okay. I loved COD but it was far from that, far from it. Anyway tea for you coffee for me.

[NEO-360]

So where does Kojima come into this long rant of yours, TMG? I don't see him talking about anyhthing ripping DA off in anything you posted. As usual you are just pulling more stuff out of your ***.

Between that and when is the game due out on the PS3 thats about the only questions left to ask concerning MGS4 IMO. :p

[Superjoint Ritual]

Resident Evil 4 gets pretty tense when you have a bunch of guys closing in on you with a chainsaw guy in the pack. Never knowing what's in the next door can be pretty tense as well.

Spy/sneak genre needs to dissapear... Especially ones with moronic characters, hours of diolouge, and ridiculous stories. :p