Xbox Live Arcade vs the Virtual Console

[Glockstar]

If we were judging this just on quantity, just on the number of games released, then the VC would kick XLA's azz. This week will see the 50th game released for Xbox Live Arcade (including Hexic HD). Not a bad number really. But nothing compared to the VC's 59! And before you say '59 to 50 is no blowout', remember that the VC has only been out for 4.5 months! XLA had a full year's head start.(!)

It's difficult to keep up with all of the VC releases. While it's easy to keep with XLA's: they typically do one new game a week (every Wednesday).

The VC has more. And it looks like it will continue to get more. But is it better?

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Personally, I say no. The VC may have more games overall, but XLA has more games that interest me. Games that I feel I worth the $$$.

I own 14 XLA games. 11 that I bought, plus Hexic, Texas Hold'em, and Totemball that were free. (And Hexic and TH are awesome - easily among my favorites.)

If I owned a Wii... I can count up to 6 games that I would download for my Virtual Console: Sonic the Hedgehog; Mario Bros.; Donkey Kong; Donkey Kong Jr.; and I'd try Bonk's Adventure and Wario's Woods. A couple of those games I might not get though, depending on a couple of factors - factoids that I hope will be revealed during the course of this thread.

I realize that the VC has some killer apps in it's library - apps that I'm not acknowledging in my "wishlist". But they're apps that either a) don't interest me personally (the Zelda's, the old-school RPG's, the old-school shooters), and/or b) they're apps that I already own. See, I still have my NES and SNES. I still have Mario Bros.; Super Mario Bros.; Tecmo Bowl; Ice Hockey; Contra III; and Donkey Kong Country.

The only reason I list Mario Bros - a game that I already own - is because I'm not sure if the VC has online leaderboards or not. I'm assuming it does.

A complete list of each's library (up to date thru tomorrow) follows in the next post...

[Glockstar]

Xbox Live Arcade
Hexic HD
Joust
Geometry Wars Retro Evolved
Gauntlet
Bejeweled 2
Zuma Deluxe
Bankshot Billiards
Mutant Storm Reloaded
Outpost Kaloki X
Robotron 2084
Hardwood Hearts
Hardwood Spades
Hardwood Backgammon
Wik
Marble Blast Ultra
Crystal Quest
Jewel Quest
Feeding Frenzy
AstroPop
Uno
Frogger
Cloning Clyde
Galaga
Street Fighter II Hyper Fighting
Pac-Man
Texas Hold'em
Time Pilot
Scramble
Doom
Totemball*
Dig Dug
Lumines Live
Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3
Contra
Defender
Small Arms
RoboBlitz
Assault Heroes
Novadrome
New Rally X
Ms. Pac-Man
Heavy Weapon
Root Beer Tapper
Paperboy
Alien Hominid
Worms
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles
Castlevania: Symphony of the Night
Jetpac Refuelled
Luxor II

Wii's Virtual Console
Altered Beast
F-Zero
Sonic the Hedgehog
Super Mario 64
Donkey Kong
Mario Bros.
The Legend of Zelda
Pinball
SimCity
Soccer
Solomon's Key
Golden Ax
Bomberman '93
Bonk's Adventure
Ice Hockey
Columns
Space Harrier II
Tennis
Alien Crush
Gunstar Heroes
Donkey Kong Jr.
Super Star Soldier
Super Mario Bros.
Baseball
Dr. Robotnik's Mean Bean Machine
Urban Champion
Wario's Woods
Super Castlevania IV
Moto Roader
Gradius
Street Fighter II: The World Warrior
ToeJam & Earl
R-Type
R-Type III
MarioKart 64
Comix Zone
The Legend of Zelda: A Link to the Past
Contra III: The Alien Wars
Super Mario World
Ecco the Dolphin
Soldier Blade
Vigilante
Kid Icarus
Ice Climber
Kirby's Adventure
Street's of Rage
Xevious
Donkey Kong Country
Mlitary Madness
The Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time
Ristar
Sword of Vermilion
Tecmo Bowl
Sonic Spinball
Elevator Action
Splatterhouse
Excite Bike
Beyond Oasis
Romance of the Three Kingdoms IV: Wall of Fire

[Ocelot]

Agreed, XBLA also brings new ideas to the table.

[Mochan]

I personally don't care for either but I think Virtual Console is the loser of the two. Why? Because I can already get everything the VC offers (or maybe I should say... I already HAVE everything that VC offers). At least for XLA I can't get some of these anywhere else, I have to rely on clones (or in some cases the originals that they cloned) that are or were released on the net over the years.

But if you had to ask me which of the lineups are better, I say VC has the better lineup.

[Cuddly Knife]

I love the idea behind Virtual console, but I don't like the idea of spitting out a crap-load of games that have been offered for free(outside of emulation, PCers) in other Nintendo games, but yet they are still charging. I guess they have to set some kind of standard, or else people would demand all games for free. Still, 60 games for the console, where are the actual killer Wii games? It seems like Nintendo's focus has shifted a little, unless it was their plan all along to milk the classics for all they're worth(why not? People buy them like no one's business).

I know for a fact that if I owned the Wii, I would still have more Live Arcade games than Virtual Console games. There are only a select few games on that list that I would get, and maybe not even then, because I still own some of them anyways.

For Live Arcade, if you want to get a hold of the original title, you have to buy an arcade machine. Of course, who wouldn't want a room that has all of their favorite arcade games in it? But we all know that's just not realistic for us working folk. You know what is, though? Being able to buy TMNT: The Arcade Game(4-player action) for only 5 dollars!

Another thing that keeps LA above is original titles. I could be wrong, but I think LA has more originals than Arcade ports(I'm right, 31/50. I got 16 originals out of 22 LA games). And most of them are of excellent quality and almost all 10 bones and under.

I just noticed something about the Virtual Console list, and that is that it contains mainly first-born games for each respective system. Launch titles and early releases fill this list. I'll become more interested when some 3rd and 4th year games start coming out that actually showcased what each system was capable of(other than Super Castlevania IV which has the best sound on the SNES, and it was a launch game).

BTW, I don't think the Virtual Console has Leaderboards. Or any kind of Online play. That would've sold me in advance if it had Online play for some of these classics.

VC has SF2, LA has Super SF Hyper Fighting, with online play. Even if it was the same game, I'd rather have the one with the option to play online.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

I've been meaning to get around to buying some LIVE arcade games. I was just reading the review of Jetpack Refueled at IGN and it made me immediately want to go download the game. A few reasons why I haven't bought any yet is because I have a lot of these games on my Treo, Joust, MsPacman, and Defender. The reason why I want to get them on LIVE is so my kids can play the games I use to play as a kid.

But I have a few questions? What do you actually own? Do you pay for one download or can you continously download the game after you have paid for it? This might be one advantage of having the 120gb HDD, if it wasn't so damn expensive. But if I needed to delete a game or if my 360 crashed would I be able to go download the game again for free? If not, that makes me wary of buying too many of these games.

The other thing is I don't know if I have the time, I barely have the time to play normal 360 games on LIVE. I'm not really able to play much on LIVE at all compared to my old XBOX days. With it getting warmer that trend is just gonna get worse. It seems like there are just too many competing technologies across platforms and now on one single platform. I don't see how any one is going to stand-out.


Also anybody here with Lost Planet. How was that game overall, particularly in the latter levels. I know there were a few odd things about the game, but I am starting to feel this is a game that shouldn't be missed.

[trebor]

Well, I guess XBLA does have Root Beer Tapper...:rolleyes:

Gimme a break, there are plenty of games XBLA is selling that can be found for free as well, so that argument is moot. The library is also mostly throw-away titles.

I will give the advantage to XBLA simply because it offers new content - but that is the only reason why. If Nintendo creates a channel for new content as well, it would be pretty much on equal footing.

[Cuddly Knife]

I've been meaning to get around to buying some LIVE arcade games. I was just reading the review of Jetpack Refueled at IGN and it made me immediately want to go download the game. Jetpac is pretty neat, but it gets repetative after about 40 levels, and multi-player is weak. Presonally, i can't get enough of Heavy Weapon.

But if I needed to delete a game or if my 360 crashed would I be able to go download the game again for free?Yes, it's all tied to your Gamertag.

The other thing is I don't know if I have the time, I barely have the time to play normal 360 games on LIVE. I'm not really able to play much on LIVE at all compared to my old XBOX days. That's the good thing about LA game, or most of the VC games, and that's that you can play these games in short bursts.


Also anybody here with Lost Planet. How was that game overall, particularly in the latter levels. I know there were a few odd things about the game, but I am starting to feel this is a game that shouldn't be missed.I loved the single-player portion of LP, but multi-player was boring. You're guy moves too slow, the levels are too large, and there aren't enough players to fill the size of the maps. In the SP campaign, the last mission was kind of wierd, but the rest of the game was solid, with some good classic-style boss battles.

[Glockstar]

For Live Arcade, if you want to get a hold of the original title, you have to buy an arcade machine. Of course, who wouldn't want a room that has all of their favorite arcade games in it? ...

That's another big differentiator: XLA's classics are of the arcade versions, while the VC's are console versions. That's one reason why I didn't include Elevator Action on my VC wishlist. Yet I forgot about that when I listed DK and DK Jr. - but now that I remember, scratch them off! ('S okay with Mario Bros... I never noticed any difference between the two.) That XLA's Ms. Pac-Man is the arcade version and not some other version is big!

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BTW, I don't think the Virtual Console has Leaderboards. Or any kind of Online play. That would've sold me in advance if it had Online play for some of these classics.

That is huge. Monumental even! Can we get confirmation on that? Or is that against kittie policy or something: to admit a shortcoming of a Nintendo console - even if it means hiding the truth or telling white lies?

Every. Single. XLA. Game. Has. Online. Leaderboards!

And a good 70% of them have online multi-player. Online multiplayer. (If my personal library of 14 is any indication: only Hexic, Outpost Kaloki X, Wik, and Ms. Pac-Man do not.)

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This might be one advantage of having the 120gb HDD...

Oh I think so. And don't forget, they upped the maximum size of XLA games from 50MB to 150MB.

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The other thing is I don't know if I have the time, I barely have the time to play normal 360 games on LIVE.

Then you don't want to start downloading XLA games. Having games right there at your thumbtips is a huge convenience. And the games are of such a high quality that you can easily lose track of time playing them.

It seems kind of stupid at first, to be playing these seemingly less-than-full-games on your $400, hi-def machine but once you get a decent library of them built up it'll seem perfectly... viable. And Responsible/rational.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Then you don't want to start downloading XLA games. Having games right there at your thumbtips is a huge convenience. And the games are of such a high quality that you can easily lose track of time playing them.

It seems kind of stupid at first, to be playing these seemingly less-than-full-games on your $400, hi-def machine but once you get a decent library of them built up it'll seem perfectly... viable. And Responsible/rational.


Ha too late. Alien Hominid is cool! I downloaded trial versions yesterday of that, Jetpack, of course Defender. I'll probably buy all three. Alien Hominid and Jetpack look hot! Really cool graphics that I think make good use of HD. Of course Defender looks like crap, but i'd buy that game no matter what, that's my all time favorite game from the old quarter sucking days.

[Glockstar]

Ha! Hello TMG. Goodbye, TMG. :p

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

But I have a few questions? What do you actually own? Do you pay for one download or can you continously download the game after you have paid for it?


This is the thing you can redownload them all you want. But say you get a new 360 or a new harddrive and redownload your gamertag to it. You can get your new games as well. But the is the kicker YOU MUST be signed on to live to have full access to the games otherwise you are just going to get the demos

Live Arcade is better a lot of really good original games. Every game runs in Hi def, a whole lot of online multiplayer. And more importantly you get a demo for every single arcade game.

Personally I haven't even taken the Wii online yet.

[Cuddly Knife]

But the is the kicker YOU MUST be signed on to live to have full access to the games otherwise you are just going to get the demos

Ms is working on changing that with some kind of update(maybe the one they're working on now?), because a lot of people(like myself) have b!tched about this when getting a new box, even though I still have the same HDD.

Remember, TMG, what Thumbs is saying only applies if you were to get a new 360, otherwise, the games are fine being played offline.

I have a question to 360 owners, do all 360 games contain Leaderboards? I mean, I remember seeing one for Condemned, so if that game can have a Leaderboard...

I don't think Burnout Revenge has one, but they do their own style of stat-tracking.

[Mochan]

Another thing that keeps LA above is original titles. I could be wrong, but I think LA has more originals than Arcade ports(I'm right, 31/50. I got 16 originals out of 22 LA games). And most of them are of excellent quality and almost all 10 bones and under.

Yup, like I said, LA has titles you can't get anywhere else. Pretty much everything on VC was available elsewhere at one point or another.


I've been meaning to get around to buying some LIVE arcade games. I was just reading the review of Jetpack Refueled at IGN and it made me immediately want to go download the game. A few reasons why I haven't bought any yet is because I have a lot of these games on my Treo, Joust, MsPacman, and Defender.

Yup, this is why I don't care much for these two things. Not even talking emulators, I have or can get a lot of these games on my phone, where they are better put to use for mobile gaming rather than livingroom gaming. Like I said with the DS, play the epic stuff in your living room, play the quick fun bite games mobile. Not that I don't play fun games in the living room... I do that every now and then, too. But only when I don't have time for the epic stuff.

As for harddisk space, TMG, you shouldn't be worrying about harddisk space with these games, I mean how many of these are over 20MBs in size? I bet nobody here's going to go over 1GB of XBLA games. (Maybe I'm wrong though? Who has the most harddisk space used for XBLA games here?)



Gimme a break, there are plenty of games XBLA is selling that can be found for free as well, so that argument is moot. The library is also mostly throw-away titles.

No one's saying all the XBLA games are exclusives, no need to get all defensive in your Nintendo panties. Like you yourself said, XBLA still has the advantage over the VC, no need to create a Strawman just to try to spin it the other way.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Yup, like I said, LA has titles you can't get anywhere else. Pretty much everything on VC was available elsewhere at one point or another.



Yup, this is why I don't care much for these two things. Not even talking emulators, I have or can get a lot of these games on my phone, where they are better put to use for mobile gaming rather than livingroom gaming. Like I said with the DS, play the epic stuff in your living room, play the quick fun bite games mobile. Not that I don't play fun games in the living room... I do that every now and then, too. But only when I don't have time for the epic stuff.

As for harddisk space, TMG, you shouldn't be worrying about harddisk space with these games, I mean how many of these are over 20MBs in size? I bet nobody here's going to go over 1GB of XBLA games. (Maybe I'm wrong though? Who has the most harddisk space used for XBLA games here?)




Over time it could become a factor, especially when you are downloading 5G HD movies. I don't do it that often, i've only downloaded 3 movies from LIVE thus far. And I delete them almost immediately, but with things like game expansions, like Oblivion's for sure, I can HDD becoming a constraint over the years.


Oh as far as that last quote looks like u dragged me into a cat fight by accident. That wasn't me.

[Mochan]

My bad that was supposed to trebor's. I mean we all know your panties have a big X on the back.

[Glockstar]

trebor... TMG... DT... don't we have more Wii owners than this here?

Are you telling me that no one who owns a Wii has downloaded anything to their Virtual Console? Are you telling me that the only downloadable game we can get any Wii owner to talk about is Root Beer Tapper - an XLA game?! I thought this system was hawt.

And fer cryin' out loud, can we please get a confirmation on the leaderboard thing?

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

trebor... TMG... DT... don't we have more Wii owners than this here?

Are you telling me that no one who owns a Wii has downloaded anything to their Virtual Console? Are you telling me that the only downloadable game we can get any Wii owner to talk about is Root Beer Tapper - an XLA game?! I thought this system was hawt.

And fer cryin' out loud, can we please get a confirmation on the leaderboard thing?

Well I don't have Wi-fi (still dont trust the security issues) plus the Wii doesn't have any online games. Maybe if Metroid or something I want to play online come out for it I may get an adaptor and take it online. as for the VC unless they have new games I'm not even going to bother taking it online just for that.

[trebor]

trebor... TMG... DT... don't we have more Wii owners than this here?

Are you telling me that no one who owns a Wii has downloaded anything to their Virtual Console? Are you telling me that the only downloadable game we can get any Wii owner to talk about is Root Beer Tapper - an XLA game?! I thought this system was hawt.

And fer cryin' out loud, can we please get a confirmation on the leaderboard thing?

No leaderboard, no online play. In fact, no online yet at all for any multiplayer, VC or not. This is still a feature that is in the pipeline. I'm hoping that eventually they will add updates to the VC and include more online functionality for games.

And no, I have NOT bought any VC titles yet for many of the same reasons people are mentioning here - they are too expensive for emulated copies of ancient games. If I'm paying $5 - $10 for a game, I DO want new features - including online play for games that really need online play, like Mario Kart and Street Fighter.

This is not to say there aren't titles I want, as there are a handful of titles I would like to purchase, but it's hard to justify the expense for the above stated reasons.

[Gadfly2317]

I've downloaded a few VC games, including games I've owned before, like Super Mario World. I've still never seen the GBA versions of the game cheap, and I haven't owned an SNES in years. I never owned a Sega Genesis, so some stuff like Toe Jam and Earl and Gunstar are cool to have. And there are games I never played like Kirby and Kid Icarus (well, I played that on a crappy PC emulation.)

I'm not into PC emulators, and I cannot see playing these games on a phone. Like others, I see huge potential for experimental and arthouse games on the Wii if they'd create a channel for new content. I can't imagine that this isn't in the works. With Nintendo created mini-titles first, of course, the greedy bastards.

[silversparrow]

When it comes to reselling classic games, I feel Sega got it right with Sega Genesis Collection for PS2/PSP. That compilation gave us 28 games for $20, a true bargain.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

The Wii's main games lol! Well maybe not with the Wii-mote, but man these games are hot!

Oh btw I don't have a Wii yet, but i'm pretty sure there will be one in da crib before the end of the year.

But Cloning Clyde and Alien Homnid are pretty slick! And the graphics on these games are damn good. I've been playing the demos I'm gonna buy these two, plus Jetpack, Defender, and maybe one or two more. It seems in most cases you don't even need to buy the game, unless you get annoyed at the prompts or really want to upload your scores.

[Mochan]

Hey! PC Emulation ain't crappy, when you apply filters like Super Eagle the result is better than the original. And let's not forget you can even set the shoulder buttons to do Speed Up and Save/Load state functions.

Emulation > the real thing in this case, for 8-bit and 16-bit games emulators are flawless and better than the originals. For 64-bit and up though this does not hold true.

[Cuddly Knife]

Cloning Clyde was a great game. Oddworld on crack, pretty much. I can't believe I'm still in the 300's on the Leaderboards.

Marble Blast Ultra is the best marble-based game I've ever played. I play this game once a week, it's so fun and challenging. Just had to throw in some pimpage fro it.

And one of the best features of LA is how you can DL a demo of every game on the Arcade, and the games are small enough so that you can get a solid impression off of the demo.

As for harddisk space, TMG, you shouldn't be worrying about harddisk space with these games, I mean how many of these are over 20MBs in size? I bet nobody here's going to go over 1GB of XBLA games. (Maybe I'm wrong though? Who has the most harddisk space used for XBLA games here?)

22 games, 867MB - The largest is SotN, which is 95MB, and the smallest are Galaga and Geometry Wars Evolved, at 15MB each.

Note that Lumines is a 51MB game, but there is a DL for 1 song(Heavenly Star) that weighs in at a hefty 124MB. That's right, one song is almost 3 times larger than the whole rest of the game.

[Mochan]

LOL that's one big ass song! CD Audio quality it better be!

[Cuddly Knife]

I guess I shoulda mentioned that there is also a video with the song.

[Mochan]

Hmm, that would indeed explain it!

[Glockstar]

Cloning Clyde was okay. I personally rank it 12th out of 14 games. It's the only game that I think is "okay". I either really like or really dislike everything else. (RoboBlitz and Totemball being the only dislikes. S'funny, I just realized... both games have rolling, ball-based physics. Hmmm...)

You gotta try Heavy Weapon, Hav0k!

[Glockstar]

No leaderboard, no online play. In fact, no online yet at all for any multiplayer, VC or not. This is still a feature that is in the pipeline. I'm hoping that eventually they will add updates to the VC and include more online functionality for games.

And no, I have NOT bought any VC titles yet for many of the same reasons people are mentioning here - they are too expensive for emulated copies of ancient games. If I'm paying $5 - $10 for a game, I DO want new features - including online play for games that really need online play, like Mario Kart and Street Fighter.

This is not to say there aren't titles I want, as there are a handful of titles I would like to purchase, but it's hard to justify the expense for the above stated reasons.

That's a killer. This really isn't a contest at all is it?

Thank you. And thanks for your honesty.

Though you do know that if it were MS and Sony under-delivering like this you'd be all over them, yes?

[trebor]

Though you do know that if it were MS and Sony under-delivering like this you'd be all over them, yes?

Sony no, MS yes. Here is why Nintendo and Sony are getting the pass from me - you get what you pay for, and with Nintendo and Sony, you are getting it for free. You are also getting online structures that are a work in progress.

If MS was under-delivering *at all* I would be relentless. MS better have the best online environment, given they have had 4 years to perfect it and you DO pay for it.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Cloning Clyde was okay. I personally rank it 12th out of 14 games. It's the only game that I think is "okay". I either really like or really dislike everything else. (RoboBlitz and Totemball being the only dislikes. S'funny, I just realized... both games have rolling, ball-based physics. Hmmm...)

You gotta try Heavy Weapon, Hav0k!

First to put this into perspective, everybody in da crib is loving these arcade games. We are practically fighting over the controller. My youngest daughter loves Cloning Clyde and some fish eating game, forgot the name. But she is 6 and can manipulate Clyde the game's pacing is slow also so that helps. So I bought Cloning Clyde. Personally its kinda slow for me, but the presentation is slick the HD graphics are pristine. Plus it looks to be a pretty expansive game.

Next is my favorite Alien Hominid. I love this game and would pay $50 for it, so I bought it for $10 a damn steal if u ask me. Its funny, great graphics and presentation, its challenging. Everybody loves this game except my 6 year old cause its too fast for her, but she likes watching it. Its so many ways to attack in the game and the boss battles are fun, they get repetitive, but still fun and challenging.

Then Jetpack is great, another one I bought. A slight drop in quality from the other two and it does get too repetitive too fast.

I think these were the only 3 I bought, thus far. I have tried Heavy Weapon, but I didn't find it that fun. It seemed kinda simple and straight forward.

Outpost Kalooki X or whatever is cool but wasn't moved by it. A lot of these games are high quality but it just depends on personal taste. If you love Zoo Tycoon or Rollercoaster Tycoon kinda games, you'll love Outpost Kalooki.

Anyway, these are enough Arcade games for now. I downloaded a bunch of others like Castlevania and Street Fighter but didn't play 'em yet.

[Mochan]

Now if they'd offer Worms Armageddon that would be awesome.