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Zilla Man
03-28-2007, 08:19 PM
With all the 360 Xbots in gaming forums worldwide whining about feeling cheated with the release of the 360 Elite, I thought this would be the perfect thread to address an upcoming issue.

MS released the Elite with a 120 GB HD, HDMI, and Wi Fi -- some of the very same features they were saying were unnecessary in a gaming console as recently as 3 months ago. :rolleyes:

Not only that, but they're charging an exhorbitant amount of money for the drive sold separately - $179! As cheap as hard drives are today, there's no excuse for that. The great thing about the PS3 is that you can buy the 20 GB version and swap it out for any larger hard drive - at a lot less than $179.

But here's the real kicker: for all that money you spend ($479), you only get a standard DVD drive, not even HD-DVD! Why? Because MS is playing catch up with Sony. They've basically acknowledged that HD-DVD has lost the format war, and will most likely be offering a Blu-Ray drive of their own :p

Don't believe me? Check out this statement from MS itself:

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4996&Itemid=46

Microsoft: Xbox 360 Blu-ray Possible


Microsoft isn’t so anti-Sony that it wouldn’t offer up an Xbox 360 Blu-ray solution if the format beats out HD DVD.
Xbox UK boss Neil Thompson told BBC News, “Whatever format wins it is highly likely we will offer a solution.”

But the writing was on the wall even earlier than that:

Updated: Tuesday, 10 January 2006

Xbox 360 May Adapt to Blu-ray


Less than a week after Bill Gates' CES announcement of an HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox 360, Xbox marketing VP Peter Moore said that a Blu-ray adaptor could be designed if necessary.
Moore told Japanese site ITmedia that if the Microsoft-backed HD-DVD format loses the format war to Sony's Blu-ray, then Microsoft could simply manufacturer a Blu-ray player add-on (and early HD-DVD add-on adoptors could simply buy a Blu-ray upgrade to accompany their theoretically obsolete HD-DVD add-on, apparently).

He also said that if HD-DVD does win over consumers and movie studios to become the standard, the Blu-ray-equipped PlayStation 3 will be out of luck. Moore made it clear that any external drives would not be capable of playing HD games, whichever format.

But here's the real kicker:

http://gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=23840

360 Elite validates Sony's hi-def focus – analyst

"Microsoft will likely offer a Blu-ray drive with the Elite," says Pachter

Microsoft's release of the Xbox 360 Elite validates Sony's focus on capturing the early market for high-definition entertainment, according to Wedbush Morgan analyst Michael Pachter.

As the format holder continues to sign up more providers of downloadable content to Xbox Live Marketplace, the support for HDMI output is Microsoft's acknowledgement that the hi-def consumer is more important that it initially believed.

"Microsoft's move is an endorsement of high-definition output, and its inclusion of HDMI validates that Sony's initial strategy was correct," said Pachter, speaking exclusively to GamesIndustry.biz.

"The 120 GB hard-drive is focused on helping the roll-out of IPTV, and I expect a progression of HDTV broadcast from the current 720p to the 1080p standard over the next few years, so the HDMI output will be relevant."

"On balance, this is a very smart move by Microsoft, but it appears to validate Sony's strategy, and serves as an acknowledgement that HD content matters," he commented.

For Pachter, the Xbox 360 Elite is stepping closer to the functionality of the PlayStation 3, but instead of offering an all-in-one package, Microsoft is giving the consumers a choice to upgrade their current console or buy the individual components relevant to their needs.

"Microsoft has made a bold move here in order to capture additional market share. They have essentially offered consumers the opportunity to replicate the performance of a PS3 by purchasing the 360 Elite plus an external HD-DVD drive," he offered.

"The value proposition is fair, and it places the two companies on similar footing."

The fact that Microsoft is not offering the external HD-DVD drive as part of the new Elite bundle may be an indication that it believes Blu-ray will eventually win the hi-definition format wars.

"It appears to me that Microsoft sees the writing on the wall – Blu-ray is going to win the format wars," he said.

"Ultimately, Microsoft will likely offer a Blu-ray drive with the 360 Elite, and I think consumers will be able to select based solely upon other drivers."

Pachter also believes that although the Xbox 360 Elite will register with early adopters of hi-def content, the current 20GB model will still be sufficient for many consumers.

"I'm hopeful that Microsoft does not phase out the 20GB model," he said.

"I continue to believe that most consumers will be perfectly happy with that SKU, and those with 720p TVs should be very happy with the performance of the current 360."

A price drop of the Premium console would also not be out of the question, said Pachter, giving Microsoft an advantage over Sony at retail.

"Microsoft is in a good position to lower the price of the USD 399 version, and it would give them a big competitive advantage to do so."

"In the final analysis, I would be surprised if they eliminated this SKU, and would consider it a mistake if they were to do so," he concluded.

Now all this hasn't officially happened yet, but with Blu-ray outselling HD-DVD 3 to 1, and studios like Disney, Sony, and Fox supporting only Blu-Ray, it's just a matter of time.

I predict that by late 2008, HD-DVD will go the way of Divyx. And all you guys who went out and bought the HD-DVD add on drive for movies will be stuck with a very expensive paper weight.:cryin: What amazes me is how many of you guys are willing to hurriedly keep shelling money to MS without any regard to the future or how the format's supported.


BTW, why would anyone buy a machine to play movies in a format that was never supported by half of the major Hollywood studios anyway?

My main point is that while both companies are out to squeeze $ from the consumer, MS is only in it for the short run. First they kill the original Xbox the same year its sales peak. Then they launch a console calling it next gen even though it doesn't support any of the two formats out of the box; then they charge you an arm and a leg for a peripheral - that doesn't even play next-gen games, just movies - and a limited selection at that!

Sony's made plenty of mistakes in the last year. But at least I know when I plop my $600 dollars down, that other than replacing the controllers when they install rumble, I won't have to keep adding on peripherals because my machine's outdated.

And now it looks like if you Xbots want to see a lot of the latest movies, you'll have to shell out more $$ for a Blu-ray add on.

BTW, you guys can post all the threads you want about how Blu-ray isn't necessary. The fact is that it's here to stay, prices are dropping rapidly on stand alone players (which is the likely cause of the upcoming PS3 drop). The average consumer is more aware than you think of the fact that HD-DVD doesn't have the strong support that Blu-ray has -- which is one reason why it's outselling HD-DVD. The other reasons? Casino Royale, Pirates of the Carribean 2, etc.

Oddly enough, I think MS has only themselves to blame fot this predicament. If they had an HD-DVD drive built in to every 360, HD-DVD would be ahead of Blu-ray right now with a huge instalment base. Yes it would have cost them more money but they would have started breaking even sooner. As it is now, they're losing money and the format wars. Not good.

So here are my questions:

1) How do you guys feel about the Elite and the price of the 120 GB add on? I know all of 360 owners probably have the premium models, but do you think it will affect future 360 owners? If you don't have a 360 but are thinking of picking one up, how does this affect you?

2) 360 owners: since Blu-ray will most likely win, will you buy the MS add on when they come out with one? Or will you simply buy a stand alone or PS3 model?

And what will you do with your HD-DVD paperweight?:p

Cuddly Knife
03-28-2007, 08:35 PM
A little late to the party, Zilla. Check out the other thread on this to see our opinions.

Jaa Phaanom
03-28-2007, 08:51 PM
So here are my questions:

1) How do you guys feel about the Elite and the price of the 120 GB add on? I know all of 360 owners probably have the premium models, but do you think it will affect future 360 owners? If you don't have a 360 but are thinking of picking one up, how does this affect you?

2) 360 owners: since Blu-ray will most likely win, will you buy the MS add on when they come out with one? Or will you simply buy a stand alone or PS3 model?

And what will you do with your HD-DVD paperweight?:p

1. Harddrive space hasn't been a big issue for me. I download a few demos here and there, but then just delete them when I am done and don't want to play them anymore. Sometimes I clear off enough space to download some HD movies. Never been a big problem so I personally don't see any need for a 120GB drive at this time. HDMI isn't that big of a deal for me right now. I'm not much of an audiophile and I can get 1080p over VGA. So I don't really see any need for getting the Elite model. If I didn't already own a 360 I'd probably get the elite model.

2. Neither format is exactly doing very well. Just because Blu-Ray is selling better than HD-DVD doesn't mean much right now because DVDs are outselling both formats combined by a very significant margin. the HD-DVD add on drive was only $200. Not a big deal for people who are into HD-DVD and Blu-Ray movies. If Blu-Ray wins, big deal, it's not like I lost $200 (actually $160). I already own a lot of HD-DVD movies and it's not like they'll stop working if HD-DVD loses out to Blu-Ray. Right now my PS3 is pretty much just a Blu-Ray player. So far Blu-Ray content wins out over HD-DVD. But based on what I have seen so far, HD-DVD quality is better. But I'm sure that will change once the movie studios start getting their act together.

theWacoKid
03-28-2007, 09:45 PM
Hey, moron, check out the following, which has current bluray owners crying foul.

Blu-ray players get a new standard set of features this October

Posted Mar 24th 2007 4:49PM by Richard Lawler

Blu-ray owners waiting for more Java features and highly interactive releases like the recently announced Matrix compilation on HD DVD could be due for a hardware upgrade this winter. VideoBusiness is reporting that the BDA has mandated all hardware launched after October 31 must support BD-J enabled picture-in-picture video playback, 256MB of persistent memory, and (for players with an internet connection) 1GB of memory for downloads. Currently these features aren't required and picture-in-picture support isn't in the PlayStation 3 or Sony's lower priced BDP-S300 that will debut this summer, ahead of the deadline. BD-J support has been sketchy so far, with many players needing upgrades to run titles like The Descent, which was able to do PiP by including two different versions of the movie on one 50GB disc. High profile DVD producer Van Ling (Star Wars, T2: Special Edition) is working on his first (unspecified) BD-J release, but is worried about supporting so many players with different capabilities. HD DVD mandated PiP and persistent storage support in all players since its initial launch; we'll wait to see if new Blu-ray hardware can implement new features and still continue the downward price trend.

So, who's going to be stuck with the paperweight, dumbass.

How bad is this situation, bad enough, that WB decided not to bother with bluray versions of The Matrix Trilogy until some unspecified time down the road.

Which high-def Matrix collection should you buy?

Posted Mar 28th 2007 9:10AM by Matt Burns

May 22 is right around the corner folks and frankly, we don't feel everyone is ready. That day you are going to have to decide which high-def Matrix film collection you are going to buy. Are you going to go for the 'The Ultimate Matrix Collection' which includes all the films, the IME HD DVD features, tons of extras, and the Animatrix short? Perhaps you don't want all that extra stuff like the Animatrix short and those extra features so you should be considering the 'The Complete Matrix Trilogy' which trims down the from from $119 to a more modest $99. But what if you only want to buy, lets say, the first film from the trilogy - what then? Well, it looks like you might have to find the discs from some third party sources where they are going to split up the collections as it seems Warner doesn't have any plans to release the films individually. The final option is to wait 6 months for the Blu-ray version to be release but why? You could look at this as an opportunity to jump off that Blu-ray bandwagon and onto the HD DVD's so you can watch the Matrix before any of your former Blu-ray buddies.


Yeah, hd-dvd is going away soon. NOT.

HD DVD fires back: HD-A20 in April for $499, 70 movies on the way

Posted Mar 28th 2007 3:33PM by Richard Lawler

We've had to wait a while, but for those wondering where Universal's exclusive titles were in the upcoming HD DVD lineup, today's press release by the HD DVD Promotions Group may put your mind at ease. While it may still be looking up at Blu-ray in terms of install base and numbers shipped, HD DVD the group still touts the fact that it has a higher tie ratio than "other high definition formats". Also included is the news that the 1080p-capable HD-A20 will ship in April for $499 (down from $599), but the biggest news is the slate of more than 70 titles shipping in the next three months from six studios (Warner, Paramount, Universal, Genius & Eagle Rock). Exclusives like Shaun of the Dead and The Bourne Identity will be available in June among what looks to be a packed month of releases for the format. Curious in their absence are combo releases, with only four HD DVD/DVD (Good Shepherd, Smokin' Aces, The Hitcher & Alpha Dog) discs among the 70.


Add to that, the lower priced toshiba can be had at amazon for only $350. And sorry, sony toolmeister, but hd-dvd isn't going away, isn't becoming an effin paperweight, and its blu ray with all the current bad press. Of course, if you acutally worked in the movie industry as you say you do, you'd know all this, one would think. But, I guess, you're effin special, like those special ed kids.

Ocelot
03-29-2007, 01:32 PM
Thanx for the post Zilla.

Personally I have faith in Blu Ray, Will it win? I really don't know, but so far it looks like they are doing really well...keep it up! If for some reason they lose the format war, at least the PS3 will utilize Blu Ray for it's gaming medium and this holds an advantage still.

Back when DVDs were new I had no doubt they would destroy Laser Disc, mosty due to CD like discs, larger storage and superior sound. I also knew VHS would become secondary in time.

360 is turning out more like PS3 every month and it's quite flattering really. Sony might be taking a media slaying but we all know they have engineered a system that truly holds the technical advantage and with all that tech inside...it sure is quiet.

Glockstar
03-29-2007, 01:37 PM
More fracking fanboyism... great. :rolleyes:

theWacoKid
03-29-2007, 04:17 PM
More fracking fanboyism... great. :rolleyes:

What did you expect from the resident sony viral mareketer? Right now, on HT forums, the talk is all about wtf is going on with blu ray and how blu ray was rushed out prematurely before the standards were set. The lack of interactivity is what's kept titles like Batman Begins and V for Vendetta off blu ray. The reality is that WB is offering up only half assed support on blu ray and definitely heavily favoring hd-dvd. Not just with interactive features, but also high quality audio codecs like Dolby True Hd and Dolby Digitla Plus while only offering up plain vanilla dolby 5.1 for blu ray.

Fox supports blu ray exclusively, yeah, but their support is a travesty. Everybody complains about what a rape job Fox does on their titles. They release Rocky, The Usual Suspects, Hoosiers which all have special editions on dvd, but on bluray, they want $40 for the movies only and no special features. Blu ray is far from the hd nirvana sony fanboys would have you think.

This battle is far from over. Combined the two formats only account for 1% of netflix rentals. MS has remained format agnostic for a while. They acknowledged some time ago that a blu ray add on was feasible. And MIchael Pachter is a frickin joke of an analyst. He's become reknown for being consistently wrong. He's a blu ray whore who thinks blu ray is the key to a sony victory. Zilla is a fudster, and as per typical doesn't put his money where his mouth is. Hence, where's his ps3? Oh, yeah, doesn't have one. He's waiting. Gee, if hd-dvd is dead already, why wait? Oh, yeah, he's waitng for rumble to be put back in to the ps3. Yeah, right. More like, he has no more faith in the ps3, than your typical xbot, otherwise, he'd be on board, no fu#$ing excuses.

Gamer From '78
03-29-2007, 06:15 PM
So here are my questions:

1) How do you guys feel about the Elite and the price of the 120 GB add on? I know all of 360 owners probably have the premium models, but do you think it will affect future 360 owners? If you don't have a 360 but are thinking of picking one up, how does this affect you?

2) 360 owners: since Blu-ray will most likely win, will you buy the MS add on when they come out with one? Or will you simply buy a stand alone or PS3 model?

And what will you do with your HD-DVD paperweight?:p

Well, I figure I would just answer you in this one. Though, the points in the thread posted by Waco Kid are excellent as are his links which pretty much throw the ball back in your court. But here goes.

1) How do I feel about the Elite? I think that Microsoft needs to do away with the $299 SKU now. The time is right to move to HDD-required games. With the 20-gig being the low-end now, Microsoft could include the drive with an upcoming title such as Halo 3 for $20 or something (ala Donkey Kong 64 which included the 8-meg RAM Pak). SOMETHING. They should also drop the price of the $399 SKU by $50.

While the 120-gig HDD will be good for those who download lots of content over Xbox Live, it will come in handy. For high-end HDTV fans, HDMI will be nice. However, for the lot of us that use the basic HDTV formats (720p or 1080i) there is no need to upgrade as Component works quite well in these resolutions.

I for one see no need to upgrade. I like the 360 white personally and aside from the HDD and HDMI port, there is no difference other than the color.

2) It's a very ballsy asumption to say Blu-Ray will "win" at this point. I don't think enough consumers are ready to adopt EITHER format at this time. Personally, there isn't a drastic enough difference between standard DVD and the new formats for many people to even entertain the notion of upgrading. The only HD-DVD titles I own are King Kong (came with the player) Nine Inch Nails With Teeth demo disc and Constantine-the only movie I bought.

Furthermore, my plan would most likely be that I don't find HAVING either player is a necessity. If & when PS3 starts getting the GOOD exclusives that make me want to play them (MGS4, etc.) I would most likely go with the PS3 as my Blu-Ray player. But again, I don't see myself buying many movies in EITHER next-gen format.

3) The HD-DVD add-on sits atop my DirecTV HD receiver which is on the shelf above my 360. It doesn't really do much except power up when I play games on my 360. So it is basically a paperweight right now. Again, I don't really care to invest in ANY unproven format right now. Why did I buy the add-on? Hell...I was just blowing some money and the shiny box and King Kong freebie (along with the 360 remote) was cool with me.

Dancer O_o
03-29-2007, 07:51 PM
when I opened the Blu-ray version of Casino Royale the whole room became light and dreamy and gust a wind blew some fresh air in. When I looked at the 360 HD drive add-on for $199.00 I thought of an Atari Jaguar system for some reason and cringed. I similarly look at this new so called superior system Microsoft is about to toss out. Clearly MS is always willing to do whatever to succeed including backpedaling a bit to whip up a Blu-ray add-on, they seem to not care if they make mistakes and correct quickly....I guess having a warchest the size of Jupiter helps.