Back in Black. 360 Elite, Worst Kept Secret.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

So Ms has made official what has been known for several weeks at least. A $479 Black 360 that is essentially the same except the HDD is now a whopping 120GB and there is an HDMI port to enable support for 1080P tvs. Other than that, no difference, except the controller is also black.

So is this a good move? Is it a rip? Anybody buying one? Will this solve the 3 Red Lights of Death problem? MS says all the chips and internal guts, including the drives are the same, so it looks like they won't acknowledge an engineering problem regarding faulty units.

Are you guys going to trade in your current 360? For those who were waiting looks like April 29th you won't have to wait much longer.

For myself, i'm standing pat with my current 360. Even though I have a 50in 1080P set, I'm not spending any extra money to game in 1080P, 1080i is just fine, plus my TV's native rez is 1080P so it upconverts the signal anyway. As far as the HDD, I don't see the point. MS themselves have acknowledged that 120GB HDD will never be a requirement for games. The extra-space is just for user content and downloaded movies and TV shows.

I think if one is in the market for a new 360, then buying this is a no-brainer. But I don't see any need to get ripped on a trade in or buy the $179 120GB stand-alone. I'd rather spend the money on a PS3 when the price drops, then have both consoles. One in 1080i the other in 1080P.

[Mochan]

The most important thing for me is whether the Elite will have red rings of death or not. Anyway, I'll be keeping my eye on this baby, I'm just so partial to black and if the 360 gets more and more great games coming and the PS3, uh, doesn't, then this will be my next purchase.

Heck, 360 will probably be my next gen console anyway because it'll be a while yet before the PS3 gets the piracy treatment and you know me I wear an eye patch and a pegleg to these boards.

It's a good move sure but it's a rip... at the early adopters. I can't help but feel a lot of the 10M strong owners of the 360 right now are gonna feel gipped with this out.

My only concern is the price. The 360 tard pack is already at a nice price of about 22,000php here, which translates to about $460US. That's a great deal here. WHo knows what price this thing is going to be here, will probably be about 50,000php ($1040US).

[ThaMaskedGamer]

It's a good move sure but it's a rip... at the early adopters. I can't help but feel a lot of the 10M strong owners of the 360 right now are gonna feel gipped with this out.


I have a funny feeling the 3 rings of death might have been associated with a particular fabrication facility. Did you notice that one of those companies that manufacture 360 for Microsoft will NOT be in the future.

As far as early adopters getting ripped. I'm an early adopter and I don't feel ripped in the least. If you break it down it is quite simple:

1. HDMI support. MS is not screwing early adopters because HDMI wasn't not settled back then! End of discussion. Hell HDMI 1.3 was just finalized what early this year or late last year? How the hell is that MS' fault. The only option MS had would have been to wait until HDMI and HDCP and AACP or whatever was settled. Personally, i'm glad they didn't wait, i've gotten almost a year and half of quality gaming done on 360. Games that are just now coming to PS3(Oblivion) and games that have yet to come to PS3(Saint's Row) and games that will never come to PS3(PGR3, GRAW1, Condemned). Plus MS from a business stand-point was smart not to wait for Sony et al to finalize HDMI, it got the lionshare of the nextgen market.

2. Extra HDD space. Should MS have included a bigger HDD. Of course. But did Sony include a bigger HDD a year LATER at the same price? Nope. In fact, they have a 20GB HDD in their cheaper unit, which is still $100 more than the 360! So who wouldn't want a bigger HDD, but based on what Sony and MS did 20GB was about the best we were gonna get. So then would I buy a bigger HDD? Hell no. I'm not paying an extra $179 for an extra 100GB that I don't even need.

So I don't blink when I say I don't feel ripped. The only way I woulda felt ripped is if they included a HD-DVD internal or Blu-ray internal drive, then I woulda been on fire. But I woulda got over it. As an early adopter you run the risk of getting outdated early too.

Look at the people who bought the first $1000 Bluray and HD-DVD drives. Look at the people who bought the first Nintendo DS. But that's me, let's hear from some other early adopters and see how they feel.

[ilnadmy]

I honestly don't care for the black 360. If I'm going to get a 360, I don't need more than the Premium system. This new system doesn't add any new functionality.

[Cuddly Knife]

What about that coveted "HDMI" that everyone keeps screaming?

Anyways, I ain't fazed. Extra space is only good if you watch shows and such, which I don't. And Black is weak. I'm actually maybe gonna wait to get a PS3 to see if maybe we'll get a new color out of it. I always did want the Pink PS2 that Europe got.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

What about that coveted "HDMI" that everyone keeps screaming?



Yup. I really don't see this being a factor for anyone except new 360 consumers. Obviously an $80 price differential means you buy this system brand new. But in terms of trading in my current system for HDMI, you'd lose $300 easy. I'd rather buy a PS3 and have both systems.

Plus, my controllers are white, my HD-DVD is white, my 360 wheel is white. And I don't even know who the 120GB HDD is aimed at. You cannot re-use the movies you download, without paying for them again, so there is no incentive to store movies on your HDD. So is it really needed for LIVE movies and TV shows? Some article mentioned that the extra space is really for IPTV in the future. If that is the case, then I will wait for IPTV and decide then if it and the HDD are worth it. My guess is no. I don't watch much TV aside from Sports and HBO original series. Anyway, I guess MS had to do something to become HDMI compliant, but i'm not even the slightest bit motivated to chomp on this.

[theWacoKid]

Lame. A move necessitated by MS's lack of foresight. Still no built in wifi and a bunch of lame excuses as to why its not built in when built in wifi is dirt cheap. C'mon, everything from sony and nintendo has built in wifi, except for the ps2. PS3, psp, ds lite, wii. Main reason for not building in wifi, not wanting to give up the enormous profit margins on the still outrageously priced wifi adapter.

They're adding the 120gig hd, but mainatining the still outrageous pricing on the 20gig hdd. And the price. $179.99US. $209.99 canadian. Out of their effin minds. This is the problem with proprietary standards, consumers get fu#$ed up the poop shoot due to a lack of competitive alternatives. Why not release an updated lower end drive at $99.99, say 60gigs at that price and the 120gig hdd at a more reasonable $149.99. This is not competitive pricing and this is not offering consumers much of any choice. MS talks out their rear about choice. Their choice is A or B and only from us. That's not choice, that's BS.

As for not building in hdmi from the beginning, the reason MS didn't do it, was there was no hd-dvd drive at that point. Now, with the hd-dvd drive in the market, people are complaining about the gimped audio on the hd-dvd drive. Without hdmi, you can't get the higher end audio codecs to perform as they're intended, you get a downmixed version of true hdj. As it is, the 360 doesn't support DTS and Dolby Digital is gimped as MS blew it and its on permanent midnight mode on the 360 hd-dvd.

Three effin skus. I don't know how many premiums MS is going to sell in Canada with the elite only $50 more here. I mean, why bother with the premium at $499can.

And another gripe, that stupid effin audio adapter designed to hook into the a/v port is yet another testament to MS's lack of foresight. If you still want to maintain an optical output port, you need to plug in a goofy looking adapter courtesy of MS's failure to include a standard toslink port. They redesign the motherboard to include hdmi, why didn't these stupid buggers also add a standard toslink port while they wer at it. Effin retarded. Just so frickin stupid. How dumb can you be? These guys are clowns. They jibber jabber about how including wifi would bump up the price. But, what's more expensive, adding a toslink port on board or making a stupid effin adapter. Talk about hypocritical double speak.

Now, onto to the color. Why the hell black, when they also announce they won't be making a black hd-dvd add on. Yeah, those two will look just great together. The lack of anything new internally, specifically the new 65nanometer chipsets really makes you wonder why the hell, they're releasing this now. I mean, what's the point.

[PapaSmurf]

Wait...are you telling me this thing is just about 500$ and it doesn't come with and HD-DVD drive? So if I bought one of these and an HD-DVD add on, that would come around to 700$. 500$ PS3 to 500$ 360. Built-in wifi to 100 gigs more space. That's what it comes down to. Well that and the Blue-Ray player already in the PS3. Well I made a thread about this anyways, but I didn't know what the cost was going to be. I assumed there would be a price drop on the current versions. I guess that was me just hoping.

[Dancer O_o]

From what i gather the problem with ring of death is from cheaply made electronic components like diodes, and that tracks as MS can't seem to nail down any one single problem with 360s (it's a crap shoot). if these new machines are made with the same parts with a new case and a few more parts tossed in then the 3 lights of ponderous doom problem will remain for the more expensive console....and black is Soooo last gen, right? Hell, Dreamcasts didn't sell because they were white and weak, and making a black sports version didn't save it. This seems to me to be another version of 360 I would ignore, right next to the core package crap.

[Fivespot]

I'll stand pat with my current 360 and see no need to run out and buy the Elite model. If I were in the market for a new one however it would be SKU to buy.

I've never had any problems with the current hard drive as far as space limitations and my TV deinterlaces the current 1080i signal to 1080p so it's of no importance to me. Sure HDMI is nice and all, but it's not much a difference in my opinion from the VGA or component output picture quality.

[Mochan]

I thought the HDMI was plenty reason to want it. I don't care about the harddisk space but the HDMI port is a nice thing to have.

Now if only it were cheaper, and if only the Red Ring of Death issue were resolved.

[folken001]

Don't forget that you don't necessarily have to have a HDTV. If your monitor supports DVI, you can just use HDMI to DVI cable and play your games on either PS3 or Xbox360 in HD on your monitor.

[theWacoKid]

Its a bad strategy all around. Three skus, and now two tard packs instead of one. MS should've announced hdmi support as standard across all skus and a standard toslink port as well. This half assed support of hdmi is a crock. MS should be looking to drive the entry level price of the 360 down, not looking to offer a higher priced sku. MS is not going to dominate this gen with this complacent and lazy attitude.

This move plays into sony's hand. They've validated hdmi and diminished the price discrepancy between the two consoles. Gamers are going to take a much harder and longer look now at the ps3, as a result.

[Ocelot]

Now, with the hd-dvd drive in the market, people are complaining about the gimped audio on the hd-dvd drive. Without hdmi, you can't get the higher end audio codecs to perform as they're intended, you get a downmixed version of true hdj. As it is, the 360 doesn't support DTS and Dolby Digital is gimped as MS blew it and its on permanent midnight mode on the 360 hd-dvd.

And another gripe, that stupid effin audio adapter designed to hook into the a/v port is yet another testament to MS's lack of foresight. If you still want to maintain an optical output port, you need to plug in a goofy looking adapter courtesy of MS's failure to include a standard toslink port. They redesign the motherboard to include hdmi, why didn't these stupid buggers also add a standard toslink port while they wer at it. Effin retarded. Just so frickin stupid.

Now, onto to the color. Why the hell black, when they also announce they won't be making a black hd-dvd add on. Yeah, those two will look just great together. The lack of anything new internally, specifically the new 65nanometer chipsets really makes you wonder why the hell, they're releasing this now. I mean, what's the point.


Tell me you're kidding, 360 won't play anything in DTS?...f*ck...even the original Xbox was DTS compatible...you just needed that stupid remote to watch your flicks.

It never really occurred to me until you pointed that out about the optical port being on the A/V cable, that is retarded. My reciever lacks HDMI so I use optical for my PS3 sound and HDMI for video only.


I like the look of the black 360 to be honest, it would match my A/V eqipment.

[MoNkEy MaN X]

It really sucks that they are not including a wifi adapter built into the motherboard. Isn't this something that is considdered cheap now?

The addition of the HDMI port is good. Finally, upscaled DVDs without having to use the horrid VGA cable. Well, actually I think my TV upscales everything to 1080p anyway so it doesn't matter.

The HDD is alright but the service for downloading HD movies sucks. It takes a long time to download a HD movie and it just isn't convienent. Especially when now you have on demand HD and such which is actually cheaper and is ready to go right when purchased.

I'm not sure what MS is thinking. They are getting pretty close to the price of the PS3. When you break it down though still the PS3 is still a better value in terms of functionality and included components. Not that anybody that owns a 360 would admit this.

The 360 is going to end up having more add ons and versions of the system than the freaking Sega Genesis.

[Cuddly Knife]

And that's what killed Sega.

[thelastword]

I have a funny feeling the 3 rings of death might have been associated with a particular fabrication facility. Did you notice that one of those companies that manufacture 360 for Microsoft will NOT be in the future. The issue with faulty 360 hardware cannot be isolated to one company or manufacturer, there have been many alternate optical disk brands used in the 360 and still the issues remain. The problem with the 360 is a multiplicity of problems. Lack of any substantial R&D + questionable components = failure.


1. HDMI support. MS is not screwing early adopters because HDMI wasn't not settled back then! End of discussion. Hell HDMI 1.3 was just finalized what early this year or late last year? How the hell is that MS' fault. The only option MS had would have been to wait until HDMI and HDCP and AACP or whatever was settled. Personally, i'm glad they didn't wait, i've gotten almost a year and half of quality gaming done on 360. Games that are just now coming to PS3(Oblivion) and games that have yet to come to PS3(Saint's Row) and games that will never come to PS3(PGR3, GRAW1, Condemned). Plus MS from a business stand-point was smart not to wait for Sony et al to finalize HDMI, it got the lionshare of the nextgen market.
Why in the hell would you need HDMI if your direction was pretty much short sighted and last gen in many respects. If you are slow to get this, HDMI is not needed to output DVD film, last gen hardware does not need next gen ports to work properly and it certainly can't make a DVD suddenly output a picture in hirez with lossless audio. HDMI was always out of the cards for MS with it's last gen optical drive.

We all know that the PS3 is/was the first device to support HDMI 1.3, the real question is whether the XBOX 360 supports HDMI 1.3, I think you might have your last brain cell left to guess, but it's a b*tch to be playing catchup all the time. PS3 was built to output HDMI 1.3 AUDIO/VIDEO. I'm Talking 48 bit color at 1080P MAXIMUM REZ with ABSOLUTE LOSSLESS AUDIO in games and movies. No matter how many contraptions are applied to MS's Vanilla hardware they will always be seriously underpar. HDMI 1.3 TV's are already available (though expensive) and there will be quite an influx of them come JUNE.

It's just too plain really, MS is now offering HDMI, but why? Is HDMI really for games on the 360 or is it more so for movies? that's the question, especially for a company which declared that 1080P wasn't necessary and that HDMI wasn't necessary and that a next gen optical format wasn't necessary. So then, this is mainly for the movie watchers on the 360, and I thought that these guys did not need to watch movies on their console, DVD is enough and all that ass.

The bigger picture in all of this is, bluray is for games, and you know what? Bluray denotes high def movies on a winning format as well. Zooming in, it's revealed, that MS will never have a nextgen optical format for games in this generatiom, so there's no way of really pushing true next gen content as the years goes by on the 360. How is it going to push next gen content on the scale of early games like Lair is besides me, farless when more is being pushed from the PS3 with 48 bit color down the stretch. DVD-ROM's are enough I tell you, look at GEARS with it's streaming textures, streaming textures won't ever be used on PS3 games it's a DVD only feature, haven't you heard? Claustraphobic levels and short games are the future, nothing looks or will look better than Gears till 720. Then why is MS playing catch up, when in essence they never will. You can't catch up, because you are a foolish virgin who didn't oil your lamp, short term pleasure for long term pain.


2. Extra HDD space. Should MS have included a bigger HDD. Of course. But did Sony include a bigger HDD a year LATER at the same price? Nope. In fact, they have a 20GB HDD in their cheaper unit, which is still $100 more than the 360! So who wouldn't want a bigger HDD, but based on what Sony and MS did 20GB was about the best we were gonna get. So then would I buy a bigger HDD? Hell no. I'm not paying an extra $179 for an extra 100GB that I don't even need.
60 gig of hardrive space is available to download and play proper next gen PSN games, to partially and fully install BD games on the HDD, for even faster load times, that's if you so desire, and of course for whatever other miscellaneous activity. You see, that's choice and there are very solid reasons why the PS3's hardrive is there for the GAMER and necessary besides saving games. $180.00 for a propietary harddrive is absolute bull, I mean, is this suppose to be an option out there for gamers?

I've been looking at a 160gb hitachi for my PS3, you know what, it's only 129.99, you get the picture. At least with the PS3 you know there will be content to justify the purchase, and NO, I'm not talking about downloadable movies. It's all about the games, Funny that a lack of foresight and planning is showing it's ugly squishy head.

The point is clear though, both of the PS3 SKU's do have harddrives, that's undeniable, which means, that all PS3's benefits from HD caching. Upgrading a PS3 from 20 or 60 gigs is pie and it is much much cheaper than if you were to upgrade from a ZERO harddrive 360 or a 20 gig 360.


The lowdown is this, three SKU's is bullsh*t. Elite is at $480, Premium is at $400 and the Core is at $299. Why should anyone buy the Prem and the Core, why would any current 360 owner buy an HD for efiin $180.00. Forget about the core and the premium the Elite just does not measure up to the $500.00 PS3, there's no HDMI 1.3, there's no next gen optical format FOR GAMES, there's no optical out, the gaming components are below par of the 360 especially the CPU. You know what? if I want more HD space I can simply purchase a 120GB HDD for $99.99, at least that investment will serve me well for future PSN games, LBP anyone? this is getting just plain silly day by day.

[Wan-Fu]

Umm, if 360 IPTV/DVR functionality was coming in the next 6 months, I would pay for the bigger HD to store TV shows and movies you could (hopefully) buy/record permanently. Except for one thing. I don't think anybody has mentioned this yet, but what the F*** am I supposed to do with my old 20 gig? Can't they have some kind of amnesty program where you can trade it in and get the bigger drive for like 120, or even 100.00?? Ebay prices will just plummet. This is a really bad move unless there is some upcoming announcement they have yet to make. What does live have that would require this much space? This just doesn't make any sense, at least not yet.

[ilnadmy]

Wow, everyone that bought the Core system is now pretty much f***ed. Well done Microsoft.

[Fivespot]

60 gig of hardrive space is available to download and play proper next gen PSN games, to partially and fully install BD games on the HDD, for even faster load times

Doesn't really matter when load times still take longer than the 360. I own both consoles and know this for a fact based on first hand experience.

Did you know that the laser reads Blu-ray discs slower than regular DVD's? Apparently not. I thought you owned a PS3!?

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

MS are like Democrats they are winning now due to nothing they did but the failures of there competitors (Republicans) now they are doing everything they can to piss in there boot.

The main problem I see is the price for $20 bucks more you can get a blu ray player that plays games er I mean a PS3 and without HD DVD the elite price is a rip. They need to price this at $400 and drop the premium to $299 and get rid of the core.

blah blah blah Blu ray fresh air

Look let me tell you something short games aren't because of storage numbnuts it's because of development cost.

Regardless of all the space on a Blu ray the PS3 is severly deficient in memory only 256mb of it is use for visual drawing memory from the other pool results in terrible lag so it not done it's a design issue. So the point is this no matter whats on the Blu ray your screen will only show what the PS3 has the memory to output. That's why the comments about Lair from the devs are BS you are not going to get that much data on screen with high quality next gen graphics and it be more than what's on a disc for a 360 game.

You know why Betehsda can't get all the dl content on the PS3 version of Oblivion? Not enough memory, because the way DL content works in Oblivion is that when you download something like Wizards toward it's put dircectly into the game world. It's not just a new map that you load up seperately the content exist in the world. Some no matter how much space you have if there is not enough memory to display it it's worthless.

Another thing you know what is filling those Blu ray disk? Duplicate code to reduce load times. That's why Resistance takes so much space up when looking at it it's not even in the top five of graphics or content as a 360 game. Get a clue jerkoff.

[Gadfly2317]

So for all that extra money, all we get is a larger HD and an HDMI port? They don't make this "super-premium" version with built in Wi-fi capability? It doesn't have HD-DvD internally?

This is one instance where I agree with Last Word's post. The HDMI doesn't make a lot of sense without the HD-DvD. This doesn't look worth the money to me over the 20gig model. If anything, upping the price that much closer to the Ps3 while still missing much of the functionality offered by the Ps3 actually makes the 360 seem weaker somehow.

They should have just offered the new color and left the hardware alone if they were gonna do such a half-assed job.

[Glockstar]

The main problem I see is the price for $20 bucks more you can get a blu ray player that plays games er I mean a PS3 and without HD DVD the elite price is a rip. They need to price this at $400 and drop the premium to $299 and get rid of the core.

Really. You hit the nail perfectly, DT. They need to get rid of the Core. And they need to measure how many people actually bought the tard pack, and if it's a small number - which I believe it is - then they need to make a new proclamation whereby mandating that developers can from now on allow their games to write to the HDD.

Oh, and make the Elite Pack available in white.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

So many things. But someone hit the nail on the head when they asked why now?

I can't say it is consumer demand. Sure some videophiles have been begging MS for an HDMI solution, but I think they wanted a solution to make their current systems HDMI compliant, not a new system! Plus that demand has not been big enough to warrant this.

There is really no technological advantage the 360 has gained by doing this. What would have made more sense is for MS to hold off for a year to two until a winner emerged from Bluray/HD-DVD war. Then make an Elite system with an internal HD drive, HDMI, and a bigger HDD. But doing this doesn't get them closer to Sony's capability in a practical way simply because even if you buy the Elite you still have to buy the HD-DVD player, and yes obviously at this point(since so few games support 1080p) Elite is kinda useless without the HD-DVD player.

The only way for MS to make this work is to eliminate the Pro system, because the 20G HDD has become obsolete. MS should:

1. Keep the Core system and reduce the price. This way an entry level version is available and later consumers can buy the new HDD and get 120GB of space. They will never be able to get HDMI, but this type of consumer won't care.

2. Drop the Pro system. $70 more for the Elite makes this the new tard pack. They shouldn't even reduce the price, just drop it altogether, if they don't drop it, the price needs to come down by $100, but that makes it the same price as the CORE.

3. Drop the price on the Elite system to $400. In other words make the Elite system the main entry point. At this price you get everything Sony offers that matters minus a HD drive. The consumer can choose to buy an HD-DVD drive or choose to wait.


Its a damn mess. Last generation I said several times XBOX survived despite MS' blunders. And this time it is going to be the games that will need to save MS. I have an HDMI 1.3 1080P Sony TV and when I play 360 on it, the last thing that comes to mind is "gee, I wish I was using my HDMI input." Ditto when I watch HD-DVD movies on it. And I wouldn't know what to do with an extra 100GB of storage even if I had it, it would never get used. So it is stupid as move by MS, but thankfully it is one that doesn't affect my gaming experience.

I will add though that NOBODY was killing Sony over the hardware configuration of the PS3. Nor really the price. I thought it was a great move and I thought it would be the console to beat for sure once released for precisely these reasons and GOOD GAMES! Once it became apparent that the PS3 was less capable than 360 in terms of making good games, that changed the analysis. And still does! I would love to have a PS3, Lord knows I can buy one within the hour if I wanted. But there is simply nothing to play and nothing in the upcoming year that can make me justify the purchase. Plus their online service is still garbage. So I think once Sony gets around to having 10+ great unique games exclusive games that I want to play that's when I'll get. But even then it doesn't look as though it will ever be my primary gaming console. Oh, plus now they gotta drop the price too.

[Mochan]

What would have made more sense is for MS to hold off for a year to two until a winner emerged from Bluray/HD-DVD war. Then make an Elite system with an internal HD drive, HDMI, and a bigger HDD.

MS, the gods of releasing SKUs and new systems in turbo mode, can just do that again next year.

Me, I just want them to release the usual pack in black and make sure it won't blow, and I'd be happy to fork over some good ones just to play Dead Rising. And stuff.

[ilnadmy]

MS, the gods of releasing SKUs and new systems in turbo mode, can just do that again next year.

Me, I just want them to release the usual pack in black and make sure it won't blow, and I'd be happy to fork over some good ones just to play Dead Rising. And stuff.
Save yourself some money. Go buy Dawn of the Dead, pop it into your PC, plug in a USB controller, and pretend you're controlling the heroes.