Insomniac defends PS3

[folken001]

Insomniac exec defends PS3, disses Wii
CCO Brian Hastings outlines 10 reasons why Sony's console will be market leader by 2010; says interest in Wii will decline.
By Tim Surette, GameSpot
Posted Mar 27, 2007 3:37 pm PT

Sony and its PlayStation 3 have been the targets of a lot of criticism in the gaming industry, and Insomniac Games chief creative officer Brian Hastings isn't going to take it anymore. The game developer has written a lengthy blog post (registration required) on the Insomniac Games Web site titled "10 Reason Why PS3 Will Win This Console Generation," a rebuttal of what he calls "the sheer volume of negative spin toward Sony from both the mainstream press and the internet community."

"I'll be the first to say that Sony has had a very rough road from last E3 up through this year's GDC," he says. "Some of their wounds have been self-inflicted, but they've also had to face a conspicuously hostile media." Hastings takes exception to some articles written about the PS3, including GameSpot's "Ten Things to Make the PlayStation 3 Worth Buying" feature (which he refers to as "Ten Complaints We Thought Up While Everyone Else Was Watching LittleBigPlanet").

Hastings points out the advantages the PS3 has (free online play, 50GB games, "Major CPU Advantage"), newly announced features and games (Home, LittleBigPlanet), and the popularity of Blu-ray, but one point he makes is likely to ruffle the feathers of Nintendo fanboys.

Under the heading "The Wii Fad Will Fade," Hastings says that interest in the Wii won't last. Likening the Wii to "mainstream fads" such as Tickle Me Elmo and Furbies, he believes that the many nongamers who have helped the Wii become a sales success will eventually let their Wiis gather dust, as "mainstream fads usually run their course within a year."

Hastings does acknowledge that the Wii is "really, really fun" and that "Nintendo has innovated far more than any other company in the industry," but he believes that in the end, consumers will be drawn to "more graphically impressive games on the PS3 and Xbox 360" for their high-definition televisions.

He sums up his thoughts with, "A lot of industry watchers and even a handful of publishers have been quick to write Sony off this generation, and I think that's near-sighted. Sony has made a lot of decisions with the PS3 that may have slowed them down in the short run, but should give them a big advantage in the long run."

In his post, Hastings also provides an e-mail address to which readers can send their comments on--and criticisms of--his top 10 list.

Of course, gamers didn't need to read Hasting's post to determine which side of the fence he sits on. Insomniac Games, though an independent company, has developed exclusively for Sony platforms and produced the PS3's most critically acclaimed game, Resistance: Fall of Man.

I think his comments are pretty genuine and true. First of all, I don't necessarily think he's dissing Wii. It's the most likely scenario. Nongamers, after all, are nongamers. I don't think their interest in Wii will last. Whatever kept them away from videogame will eventually catch up and keep them away from videogame again. In the end, Nintendo will have high Wii counts but low software counts. Of course, this is just an opinion. But, it's a likely course how this Wii fest will end.

Then, the unexplained hatery towards Sony. "the sheer volume of negative spin toward Sony from both the mainstream press and the internet community." It's like you read news on Spong/Joystiq/Kotaku and it just seems like they are out there to get Sony. Sony came up with a way to put PS3 for a better use like Fold@Home. Kotaku started a movement to do the same thing with computers just to counter what Sony is doing. Similar situations can be found on many other websites. I guess that's what it takes for being at the top. They don't sell enough, they get b1tched out. They break records, people try their hardest to prove how it's not true. If it turns out to be true, then people would still try their hardest to dismiss it.

As a side note, M$ claimed they sold 20 million of Vista in one month. I am sure M$ is just a much better and more honest company than Sony.

[slade]

I agree with him about the Wii. It has done a lot better then I expected but this race isn't a 10 yard sprint, it will last a long long while and the Wii will become dated.

[Renzatic Gear]

As a side note, M$ claimed they sold 20 million of Vista in one month. I am sure M$ is just a much better and more honest company than Sony.

What does it matter? Both companies are out to **** you out of your money. Why take sides?

[T.Tashi]

I agree with him about the Wii. It has done a lot better then I expected but this race isn't a 10 yard sprint, it will last a long long while and the Wii will become dated.

I'd have to agree. It wore off of me pretty quick. Although when where's a house full of people, it's a blast.

[T.Tashi]

What does it matter? Both companies are out to **** you out of your money. Why take sides?

Here's the difference between going out on a date with Sony and Microsoft.

Sony: You want a little more wine with your dinner? Oh that vaseline? It's nothing... more wine?

Microsoft: BEND OVER!!

[Mochan]

LOL tashi.

The Wii will become dated? The Wii is *already* dated. And I've made this point over and over, the Wii's new burgeoning market isn't one that will buy games, grannies will be totally happy with Wii Sports and Wii Play for like the rest of ther video gaming lives, maybe they'll buy Wii Sports 2 and the next big parlor game title when it comes out but it would be delusional to think this new market will be buying a ton of games, and their interest in gaming simply will not be sustained.

As for MS selling 20 Million copies of Vista, to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if it were true....

[Glockstar]

Well this is fracked: I agree with slade and Mochan.

Especially Mochan. (Ugh.) Nongamers - Nintendo's new best friend - just don't buy many videogames.(!)

But I also believe that half of the Wii's success (at least half) is attributable to the Virtual Console. This is the first ever home console by Nintendo to be "backwards compatible". And everybody here knows how popular the NES and SNES were - with everybody.

Nintendo's going to make mad money off of this thing. But will the other game makers? That's what's going to the determining factor to the Wii's longterm success.

As for the PS3 and the rest of the article... I disagree with Hastings. I foresee short lives for all three of these "next-gen" consoles.

[Gadfly2317]

LOL tashi.

The Wii will become dated? The Wii is *already* dated. And I've made this point over and over, the Wii's new burgeoning market isn't one that will buy games, grannies will be totally happy with Wii Sports and Wii Play for like the rest of ther video gaming lives, maybe they'll buy Wii Sports 2 and the next big parlor game title when it comes out but it would be delusional to think this new market will be buying a ton of games, and their interest in gaming simply will not be sustained.


Yes, you've made the point over and over. The grannie demographic doesn't buy a lot of software. But the "non-gamer" demographic is just one demographic buying the system. There are plenty of hardcore gaming journalists raving over the system and its upcoming software.

This system is appealing to mainstream and hardcore gamers as well as non-gamers--obviously. Just look at all the hardcore and mainstream gamers praising their Wii's on this and other sites. And we haven't even gotten the best of what this hardware can do. . . in fact, pretty much no software yet.

I agree the wii-craze will die down at somepoint, but not "within a year" like Insomniac hopes. There's enough potential for seriously fun games on a well-priced system to carry the Wii strongly along until the Ps3 and 360 start hitting more mainstream price points. But by then, it might be reasonable to expect the Wii2--this is a system designed and priced for a 4yr lifespan.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

You guys are missing one thing the Wii has going for it. And that's Nintendo This company owns 4 of the top 10 selling franchises of all time. Regardless of how dated the games look they will always play differently. It they can get some compelling mature content And bring in traditional gamers it's a wrap. They said Pokemon was a fad and look at that. Diamond and Pearl will outsell everything this year including GTAIV and Halo 3 sure that's a DS game. But if Nintendo develops a franchise that catches fire for the Wii. It's over.

And my family has a wii and I really don't like it but it's here to stay. Can't wait for Manhunt though.

[Gadfly2317]

And my family has a wii and I really don't like it but it's here to stay. Can't wait for Manhunt though.

Manhunt. . .I hope Rockstar nails it with that game, and that it sells. A system that offers everything from cooking competitions (Cooking Mama) to Rockstar's stealth murder sim, all with highly unique gameplay.

I want to see a lot more mature, deep content; No More Heroes and Metroid Corruption look like good starts, but with the mainstream nature of the Wii's sales, there is so much unexplored opportunity for software developers here.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Yeah you are right I think a lot of developers and fanboys alone miss that fact. If the wii can truly deliver a more fun way to play that will have more impact than game X that features "real time life rendering*"

Personally after playing Sonic Rings I think the graphics are passable and if the new RE delivers and look better than RE4 it will last. I mean what's the biggest games on the PC games that have the least amount specs to run wheather it's WOW with it's 32 mb GC requirement or the Sims or ecen Halflife one that can run on just a gfx accelerator.

And another brilliant thing about the Wii is that the don't need a supefast multicore processor to deliver a new gameplay experience the Wii mote does that.
Would I have liked to seem them take the Hi def High end route? Yeah but they didn't and if any thing about past systemwars on handheld or console have told us is that best tech means nothing at the end of the day.

[Dancer O_o]

I completely ignored the Gamecube, but since I bought the Wii I got Resident Evil 3 pack (new), Pikmin (new), Metroid Prime (new), Choco Robo (used), a Gamecube Mem card and a WaveBird (new) and Nintendo gets all those profits except Choco Robo. Res Ev. 4 is a sweet sweet game and I look forward to the other 2 in the pack. I bought Sonic Rings also, the game has excellent Sixaxis like control as you drive Sonic like a car. Tossing the Nunchuk aside and using the Wiimote only sideways like a standard controller (oddly it feels good and natural) Tilting the control left, right, forward and back for movement takes a bit of getting used to at first and admittedly felt weak, but they ease you into the control scheme and make you get used to all it has to offer, after and hour you are sold on it..Plus the game looks damned good. I think a lot of people are going to discover that the Wii is more than just Wii games only, and I doubt that the Wii trend will end anytime soon.

Nintendo says they actually make profits off of the hardware so selling only a few games per console will still keep them fat and happy and anything they make on backwards compatibility is pure icing. The Wii downloadable games are breathing second life into NES and N64 games...more icing as they release 2 or 3 a week on a regular basis so it must not be very hard for Nintendo to do this. Nintendo has a nearly perfect situation on it's hands and they know it. All those who keep saying that this will dry up and end anytime soon (in the next year) is fooling themselves. The Wii is EXACTLY how Sony had hoped the PS3 would be, the must have device....that simply is not happening and all the Sonyphiles are miserable for it and thus throwing out all kinds of crap that smacks of desperation and sillyness. The devs that come to the PS3 defense should shut their pie holes and put their money where their mouth is and toss us the games instead of predicting things they have little knowledge of...the last I checked developers are not analysts and most of the analysts have been wrong on how things have played out anyway.

All I hear lately is "wait and see, you'll see you SOB" or "bah, the Wii trend will end soon" or "PS3 and Home and Littlebighorn, blah blah blah"....tired of waiting and waiting for good PS3 games already. Oblivion looks a bit better but there is still pop up, the way Sony touted the PS3 as being uber console of doom you'd think the game would run at full bells and whistles but no, the PC version smacks it down.

That game GOW 2 is nice and all but how long has this game been in development? Haven't PS3 dev. kits been out for a long time and they didn't make it a PS3 game to showcase the POWER (power I say) of PS3? Instead they only made a PS2 version, why? Because the confounded crazy PS3 architecture and weak installed user base, that's why, Sony did it again with painful to develop for hardware and over pricing hardware that you need a second job to acquire (Sonys words not mine)...whatelse is new. This time Sony will pay for their arrogance by having the least liked machine by not only developers but the public too, the masses like mediocre, it's sad but there it is.

...end rant (takes bow, exits stage)

[folken001]

I completely ignored the Gamecube, but since I bought the Wii I got Resident Evil 3 pack (new), Pikmin (new), Metroid Prime (new), Choco Robo (used), a Gamecube Mem card and a WaveBird (new) and Nintendo gets all those profits except Choco Robo. Res Ev. 4 is a sweet sweet game and I look forward to the other 2 in the pack. I bought Sonic Rings also, the game has excellent Sixaxis like control as you drive Sonic like a car. Tossing the Nunchuk aside and using the Wiimote only sideways like a standard controller (oddly it feels good and natural) Tilting the control left, right, forward and back for movement takes a bit of getting used to at first and admittedly felt weak, but they ease you into the control scheme and make you get used to all it has to offer, after and hour you are sold on it..Plus the game looks damned good. I think a lot of people are going to discover that the Wii is more than just Wii games only, and I doubt that the Wii trend will end anytime soon.

If people didn't care for GC games back then, I hardly see why they would start caring now. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Nintendo says they actually make profits off of the hardware so selling only a few games per console will still keep them fat and happy and anything they make on backwards compatibility is pure icing. The Wii downloadable games are breathing second life into NES and N64 games...more icing as they release 2 or 3 a week on a regular basis so it must not be very hard for Nintendo to do this. Nintendo has a nearly perfect situation on it's hands and they know it. All those who keep saying that this will dry up and end anytime soon (in the next year) is fooling themselves. The Wii is EXACTLY how Sony had hoped the PS3 would be, the must have device....that simply is not happening and all the Sonyphiles are miserable for it and thus throwing out all kinds of crap that smacks of desperation and sillyness. The devs that come to the PS3 defense should shut their pie holes and put their money where their mouth is and toss us the games instead of predicting things they have little knowledge of...the last I checked developers are not analysts and most of the analysts have been wrong on how things have played out anyway.

Problem lies, again, in the 3rd party support. If Wii is generating sales off nongamers, It's likely Nintendo will get higher hardware sale and lower software sale. I doubt that would keep 3rd party happy. Additionally, the fact that Wii is much weaker comparing to PS3 and 360 doesn't help. It's very apparent that at this point Wii isn't going to get any major titles. All they are goign to get is those little off-side projects like DQ sword on Wii. I wonder if Nintendo to keep up making fun games with Wiimote in the years to come. I think the novelty is going to wear off sooner than you think. It's like it's fun to play Truma Center for the first time on Wii. How do you think Trauma Center Sequel is going to be like on Wii? Just like the original. As cheap as development cost may be for the Wii, Capcom still chose not to port DMC4 to it. I wonder why. If Wii fails to get stronger 3rd support, it's just going to be GC all over again.

All I hear lately is "wait and see, you'll see you SOB" or "bah, the Wii trend will end soon" or "PS3 and Home and Littlebighorn, blah blah blah"....tired of waiting and waiting for good PS3 games already. Oblivion looks a bit better but there is still pop up, the way Sony touted the PS3 as being uber console of doom you'd think the game would run at full bells and whistles but no, the PC version smacks it down.

That game GOW 2 is nice and all but how long has this game been in development? Haven't PS3 dev. kits been out for a long time and they didn't make it a PS3 game to showcase the POWER (power I say) of PS3? Instead they only made a PS2 version, why? Because the confounded crazy PS3 architecture and weak installed user base, that's why, Sony did it again with painful to develop for hardware and over pricing hardware that you need a second job to acquire (Sonys words not mine)...whatelse is new. This time Sony will pay for their arrogance by having the least liked machine by not only developers but the public too, the masses like mediocre, it's sad but there it is.

...end rant (takes bow, exits stage)

This kinda of thing have been going on for generations. PSX had a weak launch. Toshiden was the only note-worthy title. N64 only had 2 launch games. GC, Xbox, and Xbox360 all experienced the same. DC was probably the only exception. So why are you singling Sony out? M$ and Sony both had similar pholosophy when it comes to console making. They both put a powerful console out there and let the developers to work with it. The only difference is that M$ just copies off PC structures, as an end result, it's easier to program for. I wonder if i would be happy if Sony just did the same. Then what would the difference be? Nothing. It's like having two computers with the same processing speed but one is running off Intel and the other is running off AMD. I pay Sony for something different and they delivered. if I wanted another computer, I would build myself another one. Apparently, someone like you is ok with what M$ is doing. Unfortunately, I am not. However, this is not even my point. My point is how exactly is Sony arrogant for the same occurance that happened to most of the consoles in history. In reality, PS3 actually is movinng pretty fast in terms of features. Onling gaming was out of the box and home is coming soon.

[folken001]

P.S

Let's see who is more arrogant. Sony who is offering its console to people at 300 dollars loss per console sold or M$ who thought they could come into the industry and win just by buying everyone out? HMMMMMM.

[Mochan]

There are plenty of hardcore gaming journalists raving over the system and its upcoming software.

True... and that demographic could someday include me. Make no mistake, I am rooting for the Wii, as I have mentioned before, and would like to see some success with it. I've noted how Zelda shows that grannies aren't the only one playing and buying games, and I've also noted that the Wii is the most likely console to follow in the PS2's footsteps.

And while it's true that Nintendo owns some of the best selling franchises ever, that was in the glory days of the 8-bit and 16-bit era. There's still a strong showing today with stuff like Zelda but they haven't exactly been dominating for the past 2 generations. We haven't seen a really powerful console franchise from Nintendo for a while.

Anyway, my analysis still stands that the real stars on the Wii will be Nintendo first platform games, even with those sales numbers 3rd party developers will still want to push their games to the limit on the 360 or even the PS3. The biggest, most lavish franchises will stay on those consoles, whereas the smaller projects go to the Wii. I can't predict how the sales will go, but from my own gamer perspective I feel the Wii is still a secondary gaming platform at best, my primary will still be either the PC, 360 or PS3. I am not confident that the Wii will release the kind of games I really want in great number.

So whilst the possibility of the Wii being the next PS2 is open, I feel my own interests will lie elsewhere.

[Dancer O_o]

This kinda of thing have been going on for generations. PSX had a weak launch. Toshiden was the only note-worthy title. N64 only had 2 launch games. GC, Xbox, and Xbox360 all experienced the same. DC was probably the only exception. So why are you singling Sony out? M$ and Sony both had similar pholosophy when it comes to console making. They both put a powerful console out there and let the developers to work with it. The only difference is that M$ just copies off PC structures, as an end result, it's easier to program for. I wonder if i would be happy if Sony just did the same. Then what would the difference be? Nothing. It's like having two computers with the same processing speed but one is running off Intel and the other is running off AMD. I pay Sony for something different and they delivered. if I wanted another computer, I would build myself another one. Apparently, someone like you is ok with what M$ is doing. Unfortunately, I am not. However, this is not even my point. My point is how exactly is Sony arrogant for the same occurance that happened to most of the consoles in history. In reality, PS3 actually is movinng pretty fast in terms of features. Onling gaming was out of the box and home is coming soon.

I'm not sure if Wii games will be that awe inspiring down the road to tell the truth, the games will need to be well crafted and top tier to hold attention, otherwise as you say it's Gamecube all over again.

I see your points with wanting something different than 360 and PC hardware, it's why I got the PS3 too and the Wii. I just wish the games would come quicker and developers would shut up and get busy. I haven't bought a 360 game in a long while actually and the machine basically just sits there as I haven't seen anything to really make me want to toss 60 bones out the window just yet. I was bored with the Lost Planet demo and Ghost Reacon games should be more like the older games where you are sneaking through forest and jungles, not Vegas for godsakes. It's just that the Wii has been a lot more fun to play with over both the other machines lately for me, so I'm complaining about it. And I don't think I'm being impatient for PS3 games to come, there should be more already I think. I bought a bunch of old PS2 games I wanted to play on the PS3 like I did with GC games but most of them sucked ass unlike Gamecube games, so it's all frustrating at times to have this engine of purring bliss sitting there idle...

[Mochan]

I hope Cooking Mama for the Wii is better than its cruddy DS counterpart. The game has promise but after playing the game a bit I found I wasn't really getting into a game scenario that really involved me and made my cooking relevant. I'm a huge fan of bishoku anime (that's Cooking Cartoons in English) and a game structured like Phoenix Wright or Trauma Center with Cook Off challenges would have been awesome, imagine Yakitate! Japan or Cooking Master Boy turned into DS game form, that's what Cooking Mama had potential to do, but did not.

This also underscores the complaints I made about the DS and Wii -- the control scheme may have changed, and this is indeed an innovation, but you'll find that what makes games isn't necessarily the innovation in its control scheme, but in other intangibles that most reviewers simply do not have the insight to put emphasis on. Why is it that a game like Phoenix Wright or Trauma Center could rock my socks off, while a game like Cooking Mama doesn't? Trauma Center and Cooking Mama play practically the same, what is the difference? The difference is in the narrative of it; Trauma Center had a strong narrative with strong characters, and this is what made the game work. I know I've seen Gadfly comment on the drama of the game in the past. So we have an innovative game with an "innovative" mechanic and control system, but it doesn't work for me at all.

That means it's not just control mechanics you need to make a game great, often you need a strong narrative or sense of cohesion and purpose if the actual gameplay isn't of the Tetris/Meteos kind of addicting mechanics (and Cooking Mama's cooking isn't exactly Tetris-caliber). And guess what? You can get that caliber of narrative and writing without the fancy Wiimoto or Touchscreen (Phoenix Wright proved this). To be fair, you can get it too without the kind of hardware power the PS3/360/PC pack. My point is that there's something as a little too much praise for a control mechanic, when other unsung elements of great games should be given attention as well.

[ilnadmy]

I don't get it when people use the "arrogant" argument. Neither Sony nor Microsoft nor Nintendo is arrogant. You don't sell 100 million consoles by being arrogant. They know exactly what they did to sell those 100+ million consoles, and they know how much hard work it is. Microsoft knows how much money they had to lose to get into the console market, and they know exactly how hard that is. Nintendo knows exactly how they made all those top-selling franchises, and they know exactly how much hard work it is.

All these companies have their own business plans and their own strategies. They don't work on arrogance. No one goes into a boardroom at Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo and says, "Just make it. They'll buy it." That's just silly.

[trebor]

I
Problem lies, again, in the 3rd party support.

Well, like it or not, with the kind of numbers the Wii has been selling through (5+ million worldwide already!) 3rd party devs are going to have to start taking it seriously. When that starts happening in full force, a lot of the haters on this board are going to be eating serious crow.

[folken001]

Well, like it or not, with the kind of numbers the Wii has been selling through (5+ million worldwide already!) 3rd party devs are going to have to start taking it seriously. When that starts happening in full force, a lot of the haters on this board are going to be eating serious crow.
The point is, even 3rd party wants to go full force at it, the hardware won't allow them to do so. We are talking about the difference of computing power and graphics power. The difference between 480p and 1080i or even 720p is pretty obvious. They would have to rely on innovative ideas. The hardship is just how long can you keep coming up with innovation? That is, how long can you make Wiimote interesting before people get bored of it. My argument is that Wii sale is coming from a lot of non gamers. Would those non gamers going out and buy a lot of games? I don't see that. Eventually, those people would just put Wii away. And Wii software sale will ended up being supported by Nintendo loyalist like yourself. I wonder if that'll look good enough for 3rd party to go, once again, full force with Wii.

Of course, you could be right. But this is what I think of it.

[folken001]

I don't get it when people use the "arrogant" argument. Neither Sony nor Microsoft nor Nintendo is arrogant. You don't sell 100 million consoles by being arrogant. They know exactly what they did to sell those 100+ million consoles, and they know how much hard work it is. Microsoft knows how much money they had to lose to get into the console market, and they know exactly how hard that is. Nintendo knows exactly how they made all those top-selling franchises, and they know exactly how much hard work it is.

All these companies have their own business plans and their own strategies. They don't work on arrogance. No one goes into a boardroom at Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo and says, "Just make it. They'll buy it." That's just silly.
It's nonsense. I am kinda of opposite of you. I think most of the big companies are kinda cocky in a way. However, I don't necessarily think it's a bad thing to show confidence in your brands. I just don't like people constantly abuse the idea that Sony is arrogance and acting how other companies aren't. Oh pleeeeeeaze.

[trebor]

The point is, even 3rd party wants to go full force at it, the hardware won't allow them to do so. We are talking about the difference of computing power and graphics power. The difference between 480p and 1080i or even 720p is pretty obvious.

So, then you are saying a game like God of War 2, which is on PS2, isn't "full force" because it isn't on a more powerful machine? It must suck, since the PS2 doesn't have the graphical or processing capabilities to handle any good games.

Did you miss the entire last generation of videogames? Does every game available for PS2/Xbox/GC magically suck now that newer game consoles have arrived? The Wii is more powerful than any of those three consoles, so your argument is inherently flawed.



They would have to rely on innovative ideas. The hardship is just how long can you keep coming up with innovation?

That is kind of the point, isn't it? If developers can't innovate then they are doomed to repetition and formula - which is a problem on any platform.


That is, how long can you make Wiimote interesting before people get bored of it. My argument is that Wii sale is coming from a lot of non gamers. Would those non gamers going out and buy a lot of games? I don't see that. Eventually, those people would just put Wii away. And Wii software sale will ended up being supported by Nintendo loyalist like yourself. I wonder if that'll look good enough for 3rd party to go, once again, full force with Wii.

Of course, you could be right. But this is what I think of it.

As I said before, with the current sales of the Wii, developers can't afford to ignore it for too much longer. It's up to them to create content that compels gamers to buy their product - not the other way around. Gamers shouldn't have to buy any crap that a developer will dish out just to warrant a little effort put forth.

[Dancer O_o]

I don't get it when people use the "arrogant" argument. Neither Sony nor Microsoft nor Nintendo is arrogant. You don't sell 100 million consoles by being arrogant. They know exactly what they did to sell those 100+ million consoles, and they know how much hard work it is. Microsoft knows how much money they had to lose to get into the console market, and they know exactly how hard that is. Nintendo knows exactly how they made all those top-selling franchises, and they know exactly how much hard work it is.

All these companies have their own business plans and their own strategies. They don't work on arrogance. No one goes into a boardroom at Sony/Microsoft/Nintendo and says, "Just make it. They'll buy it." That's just silly.

right, how is "they will want to get a second job to get our console" not arrogant? Sony sold 100 million and BECAME arrogant, this is not in dispute unless your dim witted...

[folken001]

So, then you are saying a game like God of War 2, which is on PS2, isn't "full force" because it isn't on a more powerful machine? It must suck, since the PS2 doesn't have the graphical or processing capabilities to handle any good games.

It's their first party game. Nintendo will obviously have to go "full force" with Wii. Question is: Will the rest of the community follows suit?

Did you miss the entire last generation of videogames? Does every game available for PS2/Xbox/GC magically suck now that newer game consoles have arrived? The Wii is more powerful than any of those three consoles, so your argument is inherently flawed.

But we aren't in the last generation anymore. You can't come to me and say this is the standard 7 years ago and people were fine with it. So 7 years later, people should still be fine with it. Some, probably, not most.

That is kind of the point, isn't it? If developers can't innovate then they are doomed to repetition and formula - which is a problem on any platform.

Not really. Was Xbox doomed? Was 360 doomed? What innovation came out of M$? Nothing. Same could said about a lot of games on PS2 too. Yet, they continued to sell. I am not saying innovation is not good. It's hard to come by. It's even harder if Nintendo is trying to sell more Wii in the years to come relying largely on innovation. Good luck with that.

As I said before, with the current sales of the Wii, developers can't afford to ignore it for too much longer. It's up to them to create content that compels gamers to buy their product - not the other way around. Gamers shouldn't have to buy any crap that a developer will dish out just to warrant a little effort put forth.

Your last sentence kinda pointed out the core of my argument. A lot of Wii owners aren't really gamers. That's why most still think that Wii fad will fade soon.

[ilnadmy]

right, how is "they will want to get a second job to get our console" not arrogant? Sony sold 100 million and BECAME arrogant, this is not in dispute unless your dim witted...
Again, that is pure PR. Like I've said time and time again, DO NOT pay attention to what these representatives say, it doesn't reflect what they think. Sure they sold 100 million and thought that they have the best brand out there, which is true since they sold the most. But what I'm saying is, they know what they had to do to GET IT TO THAT LEVEL. They know it didn't sell 100 million consoles just by being on store shelves. They know all the advertising, marketing, and exclusive-grabbing they had to do to get that level of sales, and they know they'll have to do the same with the PS3.

The only difference is that now Microsoft has learned what Sony did last gen, and is more of a force than it was last gen with its Blinxes and its Kung Fu Chaoses.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

One question to anyone. People say the novelty will wear off with the Wii. Why would it wear off with the Wii and no other platform? Is graphics really the only thing that matter. Sure the other consoles have more power that supposedely will offer new gameplay experiences but you get that by default with the Wii.

The only issue is if Ninteno and 3rd parties keep resorting to the minigame formula then it will be a problem. Look at how many games are adding QTE sequences how much more interactive and fun will that be using a Wii?

I have a bunch of issues with the Wii but novelty isn't one of them. How long as the DS been out? And non gamers are stilling buying Brainage games for that. The think with Nongamers is not to bring them in and let them go. They are people like anyone else if you introduce them to something they like the will want to continue with that experience.

Nintenod needs to change some of there Buisness strategy as it pertains to 3rd parties if they do that the Wii will win.

Personally I prefer the more High end Halo 3 Mass Effect type games but I honestly don't see the Wii going anywhere. As for the GC no it didn't start off this good. It was being beat by the Xbox from day one. They didn't sell out at launch or right after launch you could get them. This is totally different.

[Gadfly2317]

But what I'm saying is, they know what they had to do to GET IT TO THAT LEVEL. They know it didn't sell 100 million consoles just by being on store shelves.

What they did to get to that level was release a year early, build on the momentum of the Ps1, and not only retain exclusives, but captured more. Early lead in installed base, fumbling competition, and they had the games. Everything is the opposite this gen.

One question to anyone. People say the novelty will wear off with the Wii. Why would it wear off with the Wii and no other platform? Is graphics really the only thing that matter. Sure the other consoles have more power that supposedely will offer new gameplay experiences but you get that by default with the Wii.
Excellent post. A boost in graphics is a novelty that wears off really quickly; this gen its already worn off for me and I haven't even gotten one of the powerhouse consoles yet. I play the 360 occasionally at stores, and the graphics just don't wow me that much anymore. I mostly just want one for the games.

As far as gameplay, I don't see the Wii as a novelty, and whatever novelty factor there may actually be, I don't see it wearing off too quickly since the potential gameplay aspects of the Wii have barely been tapped yet.

And think how many games consist of, basically, just shooting things. Part of me wonders why the novelty of that hasn't worn off yet. . .I've been shooting things since Space Invaders. . . entire civilations now lay dead before my mediocre aim. If that decades-old novelty hasn't worn off, why would anyone expect the "novelty" of the more visceral and realistic killing style of the Wii's gun and swordplay to quickly evaporate?

[ilnadmy]

The novelty comes in the fact that a remote control is a very limited way to experience a game. I'll bet you everything NEO has that they will never make a Devil May Cry-style game on the Wii, because you don't have the requisite buttons/triggers/analog sticks to be able to create a complicated combat system. It's all pretty much point and shoot on the Wii, which is a very simplistic system, and which will get really old really quick if they don't start to use this control system with more typical genres, such as RPG, action/adventure, FPS, etc...

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

The novelty comes in the fact that a remote control is a very limited way to experience a game. I'll bet you everything NEO has that they will never make a Devil May Cry-style game on the Wii, because you don't have the requisite buttons/triggers/analog sticks to be able to create a complicated combat system. It's all pretty much point and shoot on the Wii, which is a very simplistic system, and which will get really old really quick if they don't start to use this control system with more typical genres, such as RPG, action/adventure, FPS, etc...


What the hell! The wii with the nunchuck has all the functionality of the other controls. With the exception of a second analoges stick which is rendered moot due to the motion of the wiimote as for buttons it comes with 5 face buttons and a trigger on both the nunchuck.

If anything using the Wii mote gives you vastly different ways to control a game DMC would work perfectly on it since DMC only uses the face buttons and triggers plus the dpad for menu selection. You're wrong there.

[Cuddly Knife]

Yeah, Viewtiful Joe would be sick on the Wii.

entire civilations now lay dead before my mediocre aim.

The Wii would also be good for 2-D shmups. Like all the mini-game games use just a point and click deal, you could control flight with the chuck, and aiming with the wand. The LA game I'm playing right now call Jetpac Refuelled would be a perfect game for this, because you are in only one screen at a time(over 100 levels) and enemies attack from all angles while you dodge and shoot and collect parts and fuel. Don't mistake this for Geometry Wars though.

[Mochan]

Sure the other consoles have more power that supposedely will offer new gameplay experiences but you get that by default with the Wii.

Not really, and the gameplay experience you get from better graphics is different from what you get from the Wiimoto. Better graphics give you atmosphere, which is a different kind of experience and worth its own weight in gold in its own right. Atmosphere also helps greatly in telling a narrative, and like I said for most gamers telling a strong narrative is just as important as an innovative input method, if not more so.

The Wii won't necessarily give you a new experience, I honestly don't want to see the wiimoto being used in a forceful matter gratuitously. Look at the DS, I mean yes I'm having fun with it but only a small percentage of the games I play on it are really offering a "new experience" in terms of control, like Kirby's Canvas, Trauma Center and Meteos. Most of the other games on it basically are just GBA games with some tacky gimmick attached like punching iceblocks out in Portrait of Ruin.

This is the kind of novelty I am saying will wear off -- it's not a good control mechanic that will wear off, but rather if the control mechanic is used in gimmicky ways or worse, makes the game rely on this mechanic rather than developing other aspects of the game (I'm looking at Cooking Mama here).

But if you get that kind of game and give a whole package, you have to ask: was it really the control mechanic that made the game great, or was it the other parts of the game? I'm willing to wager it was the latter, and sure while the new game/control mechanics will certainly add something to the game, in most cases I would say it's not the dealbreaker.


If that decades-old novelty hasn't worn off, why would anyone expect the "novelty" of the more visceral and realistic killing style of the Wii's gun and swordplay to quickly evaporate?

Well here I want to point something out. By your argument, if the age old shooting gameplay novelty hasn't worn off, then how is a new gameplay mechanic necessary? The old one was just fine and you haven't tired of it, yet why the need for a new mechanic? Worse, is it the new mechanic that makes the game, or is it everything else about the game? Twilight Princess Wii has a great sword mechanic or so I hear among other things, but is that what makes the game great, or is it everything else about the game? I would say it's the latter, seeing as how the GC version is just about as awesome.

Personally though what I feel is that once you go to the more advanced level, you can't go back without feeling a little lost. In line with this I would also like to point out that control mechanics actually do make or break a game for me -- we all know how I can't play FPS with gamepads and I can only do so with mice. I just can't go back to gamepads.

And likewise, this brings me to another point -- you say the novelty for graphics will wear out sooner, but it's usually hard to go back to lower tech graphics once you've seen better. It's like the Technicolor argument -- once you've seen movies in color you won't want to go back to black and white. It won't always break the game, but it sure adds a lot if you have better graphics. While some games work just fine with lesser graphics can still be very enjoyable -- Worms, Phoenix Wright and basically cartoonish looks work just fine -- but if you're going into 3D you need to really up-to-date graphics or the experience is marred just as much, if not more, than it would if you had a more "basic" control method.

I don't think the novelty for graphics wears off all that quickly. It's something that may blend into the woodwork after you play a few great looking games, but let's say you've played Gears of War then you try to go back to Halo 1 on the XBox, you're going to feel just a little disappointed and then you'll find yourself wanting those better graphics.

Excellent post. A boost in graphics is a novelty that wears off really quickly; this gen its already worn off for me and I haven't even gotten one of the powerhouse consoles yet

Well of course it's "worn off" for you, not having any of the new consoles or a power PC, you haven't seen great graphics yet! If all you had to whet your graphics palette was the Wii, then it's no surprise the Wii is basically just Xbox graphics, something we've had for the past 5 years. Go play yourself some awesome visuals first before pronouncing graphics as a useless feature.

Sorry couldn't resist -- I do realize some people don't value graphics all that much and are just happy with low tech visuals, but come on, graphics do things for games and that's why we have all this new shiny stuff in our games today. If you can't see the allure of graphics at all, realize that some people might not see the allure of a new control method either! Remember the Space Invaders shooting gameplay mechanic still holds to this day.

[Mochan]

What the hell! The wii with the nunchuck has all the functionality of the other controls. With the exception of a second analoges stick which is rendered moot due to the motion of the wiimote as for buttons it comes with 5 face buttons and a trigger on both the nunchuck.

If anything using the Wii mote gives you vastly different ways to control a game DMC would work perfectly on it since DMC only uses the face buttons and triggers plus the dpad for menu selection. You're wrong there.

Let me just be quick to say that it sucks to play DMC on a keyboard and mouse, and the NunchuckWiimoto combo isn't that far off from this scheme.

I also wanted to point out that an evolution in the control system can make older controls obsolete same way that mouse control makes gamepads obsolete for me in shooters. The Wii does have the potential to do the same, I could play a Wii shooter and then never turn back to mouse and keyboard. That would indeed be something.

My main concern is that I may have trouble going back to Wii-level graphics in shooters after having gone through awesome visuals with my PC.

But the thing is that will the Wii's control mechanics aren't necessarily universal ... are they better for all types of games? I'm a m/kb fanatic but I honestly hate using this control setup to play action games like Devil May Cry or 2D side scrollers (there was a 2D sidescrolling shooter like Cuddly is describing on the PC that used the mouse to aim and you move around with your other hand on the keys) but I didn't really get into it that much.

I can see the Wiimoto working well for FPS and RTS, and for emulating certain sports movements, but this control mechanic isn't necessarily all that good for other genres. I'll eat crow if developers can make great games that prove me wrong and show that the Wiimoto works for any kind of game, but right now I'm not totally sold on the idea. I'm more with Il here in that DMC type games aren't going to work too well with the nunchuckmoto. The game will be less like DMC and more like Dark Messiah of Might and Magic or Rune or Blade of Darkness -- needless to say inferior in terms of the action you play.

[ilnadmy]

I agree with Mochan (what else is new?) - graphics are pretty important. I know that's the superficial thing to say, but it's true. Case in point - would Gears of War be what it is without the shiny Unreal 3 Engine? I think not. It adds spookiness and atmosphere. Why does everyone want to play BioShock when we haven't even seen any gameplay videos? Same with Crysis.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

I agree with Mochan (what else is new?) - graphics are pretty important. I know that's the superficial thing to say, but it's true. Case in point - would Gears of War be what it is without the shiny Unreal 3 Engine? I think not. It adds spookiness and atmosphere. Why does everyone want to play BioShock when we haven't even seen any gameplay videos? Same with Crysis.


I understand where you are coming from. But what you describe is a preference. One that I happen to share. The question though. Is will lower spec graphics make the Wii a novelty? The answer to that is no. And graphics only matter to a certain extent if they were that much of a determing factor the PC will be the top gaming platform. And the games played would be graphic intensive. But what are the biggest games in PC history. The sims WoW the first Half-life? None of those games are or were ever graphic intensive games.

[ilnadmy]

Actually when WoW came out it looked pretty decent, and in fact still to this day looks pretty damn good with all the graphical settings turned up all the way. The Sims got a sequel, The Sims 2, which looked much better, and Half-Life got a sequel, Half-Life 2, which practically kick-started the DirectX 9 generation.

I'm not saying lower res graphics will kill the Wii, I'm just saying graphics are important.

[Dancer O_o]

The only difference is that now Microsoft has learned what Sony did last gen, and is more of a force than it was last gen with its Blinxes and its Kung Fu Chaoses.

Agreed...although I thought Kung Fu Chaos was pretty funny and fun

[Dancer O_o]

The novelty comes in the fact that a remote control is a very limited way to experience a game. I'll bet you everything NEO has that they will never make a Devil May Cry-style game on the Wii, because you don't have the requisite buttons/triggers/analog sticks to be able to create a complicated combat system. It's all pretty much point and shoot on the Wii, which is a very simplistic system, and which will get really old really quick if they don't start to use this control system with more typical genres, such as RPG, action/adventure, FPS, etc...


Hmm, go play Zelda from end to end and then you will realize just how wrong this statement is...the limits of the controls are only the limits of the developers imagination. Any kind of gaming you can do with a dualshock styled controller you can also pull off on the Wii controls, but that doesn't mean that everyone will do it correctly though. There is SO much more you can do with the controls other than just point and shoot. I bet that DMC styled games would do just fine on the Wii. I can't stress enough that it is NOT A NOVELTY, you only think it is. If it was a novelty I would not have over a 100 hours of Wii gaming under the belt.

[Cuddly Knife]

snip
The Chuck and Mote don't have to be used as a point and click type deal. There is full 3-D space that both can be used to control certain mechanics.


I agree with Mochan (what else is new?) - graphics are pretty important. I know that's the superficial thing to say, but it's true. Case in point - would Gears of War be what it is without the shiny Unreal 3 Engine? I think not. It adds spookiness and atmosphere. Why does everyone want to play BioShock when we haven't even seen any gameplay videos? Same with Crysis.

I mostly agree, but then you have to remember that last gen, there were tons of games that reeked of atmosphere and weren't that all graphically impressive. And even if they were, that should be a point for the Wii in that is is 2 times(in theory so far) more powerful than the Xbox. If games do it right, then the thought "I wish this game had better graphics" will never even cross your mind. Of course, if you're a fan for realism before anything else, then your comments are totally true.

[Mochan]

The question though. Is will lower spec graphics make the Wii a novelty? The answer to that is no.

I agree; lower spec won't make it a novelty. It's the wiimoto itself which will make the Wii a novelty, or rather if a game uses the wiimoto in a gimmicky way like how Casltevania DoS used the touchscreen for breaking ice blocks. This is all up to the developer though and not intrinsic to the Wii itself.

I can't imagine a good way to use the Wiimoto for a DMC-type game, but I'll just wait and see how it pans.

[Renzatic Gear]

I'm gonna get on my high horse here and talk about the differences in graphics vs. art. I'm gonna use a recent PC release as an example. A game that doesn't use the latest and greatest in rendering technologies (anymore), but still managed to suck me in in ways few games ever have. That game is....STALKER.

Yeah, STALKER uses HDR, parallax mapping, and realtime shadows. But if you were to compare screenshots from it to any Unreal Engine 3 or PS3 game, it'd look pale in comparison. Yet when you're actually playing the game, you don't care that the terrain isn't deformable in realtime or that it's rendering a metric ****ton of polygons. Instead of relying on the latest and greatest tech, it draws you with some of the best art and sound design this side of Okami. Even if it were running on lesser tech than what it already supports, it'd still be a really, really oppressively frightening and damn fun game.

And I'm not making excuses for the game either, it's hardly what I'd call a charming but ugly game.. It looks damn good, and even without the most modern bells and whistles, it manages to keep me in awe.

So that's really the reason why I'm not too concerned about the Wii's graphical disadvantages. Once developers really starting using the system instead of making simple PS2 ports (just look at Mario Galaxy as example of what the Wii is capable of), it'll start to shine.