The Blue Screen is KILLING ME!!

[ilnadmy]

So the blue screen of death has crept up on my new rig like a plague of undeath from Nerz'hul. It's hitting me around 4 times a day, and especially when I quit a game, which is really puzzling. I quit BF2142, and *WHAM* STOP: 0x0000008e. I exit WoW and *WHAM* STOP: 0x00000050. Sometimes it'll hit me during the game; everything will freeze and the music will start looping for a good minute, before the BSOD pops up. Sometimes I'll just be surfing on Firefox and it'll hijack me. I've gotten a few nv4.sys, some dxg.sys, and sometimes a PAGE_FAULT_IN_NONPAGED_AREA or something like that.

I'm sending it in to the place that custom-made it for me tomorrow so that they'll take a look at it, but I have a niggling feeling that the video card might be f***ed, and seeing as I'm not in the US, I don't think XFX will let me RMA back for a replacement.

Does anyone know what this might be? I mean I've been playing games on it for a while now and no errors, but all of a sudden this week I've been getting this BSOD issue very, very often.

[Renzatic Gear]

It could be a boatload of things..

1. Bad graphics card.
2. Bad ram
3. Fugged up graphics card driver/DirectX install.
4. Overclocked graphics card overheating.

Take your pick.

[ilnadmy]

Well I installed the latest nVidia drivers, and I don't think the graphics card is overheating because 1) I didn't ask them to overclock it, and 2) I mostly get this error when quitting games. I'm thinking either the video card can't make the switch between game and Windows desktop, or RAM can't do it. Of course that's a very preliminary non-technical assumption, so it's probably wrong.

[Renzatic Gear]

If that's the case, the best way to find out if your card is having problems switching resolutions is to run your games at the same res as your desktop, fire them up, and quit them over and over again. If you figure out that doesn't crash on you, then do the same thing with the game running at a different res and see if it does it then.

And I'd still check my temp settings and clockspeeds in the Nvidia control panel to see what's up there. Better safe than sorry and all that.

[Mochan]

Usually errors like this are memory-related but from your description it seems more an issue with the GPU.

[ilnadmy]

I really hope it's not the GPU, because that's the one part of my rig that I won't be able to replace (not without buying an entirely new GPU that is).

[Mochan]

Not to mention your GPU is the most expensive part of that rig. Doesn't the shop where you bought it from have a warranty on it?

[ilnadmy]

I bought it through them via Amazon. In other words, I paid them to buy it off Amazon and ship it here. Which is why I think that XFX wouldn't send me an RMA for the part. I would either have to pay for shipping to and from XFX, or take the part with me to the US.

However, I've noticed that WoW files have been randomly getting corrupted too. I've had to uninstall/reinstall the game around 4 times over the past week, and I'm doing it again right now, so I'm guessing maybe the issue is the RAM, since it seems to be flowing over into non-video card related issues.

[Renzatic Gear]

Do you have two ram sticks installed? Try taking one out, test it, and see if that fixes your problem. If it doesn't, swap it for the other stick and test again. If you get positive results, you know one of your sticks is bad. If not, either both are bad or your problems lie elsewhere.

Or if you want to go a simpler route, just google up ram diagnostic tests and use whichever program seems best for you.

And in the meantime, call up XFX and see if you're covered under their warranty.

[PapaSmurf]

It could be a boatload of things..

1. Bad graphics card.
2. Bad ram
3. Fugged up graphics card driver/DirectX install.
4. Overclocked graphics card overheating.

Take your pick.

We need to keep things like this in PM or else the console guys will start flaming about how difficult it is to be a PC gamer.

[Mochan]

Well Il has been having issues lately it seems, either with Alienware or with custom built rigs.


Well now that you mentioned game corruption, it is highly likely that it is a RAM issue and not a GPU issue. I would suggest using a RAM Test as mentioned. The old "swap the sticks out" method also works.

[Lemonio]

wohoo. i have spent around 500 dollars on graphics card, power supply and ram to fix it, which didn't help, and still more stuff to be bought in the future. at least my comp didn't die when i installed the hardware. i have a feeling you will get to do this too! or you can reinstall windows xp, it is quite simple. if you don't know how, tech support will probably charge $30 for everything

[ilnadmy]

So I talked to the guy at the computer store and he says the problem is the graphics card overheating. He added an extra fan to the case. I asked him how an overheating graphics card could cause errors upon exiting a game and how it could cause some files to be corrupted, and he says that the RAM onboard the GPU gets too hot and starts to f*** up.

Is this plausible? I mean as far as the corruption, it'll come and go, i.e. yesterday I couldn't sign in because it kept giving me the corrupt error, and yet when I signed in today everything was fine, so I guess it's not too far-fetched that an overheating card is the problem (not to mention we've been having ridiculously hot weather these past few days).

[Lemonio]

So I talked to the guy at the computer store and he says the problem is the graphics card overheating. He added an extra fan to the case. I asked him how an overheating graphics card could cause errors upon exiting a game and how it could cause some files to be corrupted, and he says that the RAM onboard the GPU gets too hot and starts to f*** up.

Is this plausible? I mean as far as the corruption, it'll come and go, i.e. yesterday I couldn't sign in because it kept giving me the corrupt error, and yet when I signed in today everything was fine, so I guess it's not too far-fetched that an overheating card is the problem (not to mention we've been having ridiculously hot weather these past few days).
did he mention beeping while playing?
been trying to solve the beeping problem for months now!

[Mochan]

An overheating video card isn't going to corrupt your harddrive.

Maybe your RAM is overheating and causing corruption?

Try running a temp monitoring solution like SMARTFAN and oh check out your GPU's temps in the NVidia Control Panel. Is it really overheating? Adding a fan to the case sounds like a weakass solution. One fan to the case isn't going to help all that much in the grand scheme, unless it's some monstrous 160mm fan or something.

That place you had your rig built is starting to sound like some cheap chop shop.

[Bane]

ive had overheating gpu problems with my 6600 GT and 6800 GT never got a blue screen.Only thig that ever happened to me was my PC would reboot or id get a checkered screen and then freeze.This all sounds like a Ram issue or Harddrive.Ive never heard of a gpu corrupting files though could be wrong.

[DBS]

Here is something to try to see if it is a heat issue. Take a large fan and open your case and have it blow into the case as you play. Test this and see if you still have these issues.

How many fans are in your case? Is your case real dusty inside as that can stick to components and overheat them. Is your fan on your gpu spinning and working correctly. Look at these while the case is open and your computer running.

I have 5 fans in my case that change speed with temp and load. How many fans do you have? Also every few months I blow out all the dust with a can of compressed air. Good quality video cards usually have nice heat sinks and fans on them but there are some cheaper ones that cut cost here.

[Jasmania]

This won't help diagnose the problem, but if you HAVE to get a new video card consider BFG.
I had purchased a new BFG 6800 Ultra OC on Ebay about 9 months ago.
One day it died unexpectedly-waaahh. I freaked because I didn't have the original sales receipt required for the lifetime warranty. None the less I called customer service, got an RMA number without any hassles or questions and sent the card back to them. I got an email within 48 hours informing me that the card could not be repaired and a replacement was being sent. Four days later I opened the package to find a brand new 7800GS OC with an awesome solid copper heatsink & fan assemby that looks cool, has a lovely blue LED in the fan that matches my blue case lights & fans lights and works 20% better than the stockheat sink. Just to be sure that this wasn't a mistake I called support, gave them my account info and they told me that they had no 6800 UltraOCs in stock so they sent the 7800 instead. They included the custom heatsink for being a loyal customer!!!
Heres a link to a review of the copper cooler-
http://www.penstarsys.com/reviews/cooling/graphics/bfg/7800s/index.html

You really can't beat that kind of service. Lifetime warranty. absolutely NO hassles, great communication and a replacement within a week!!!!

[ilnadmy]

OK so yesterday I put a fan blowing against the case, although I didn't take the case off the tower so I don't think it really did much. While playing the temperature would max out at 86 Celsius, which is about 186.8 Fahrenheit. I then tried to exit the game and I got another blue screen with this message: MEMORY_MANAGEMENT. So now I'm almost positive it's the RAM.

I think the guy just didn't want to change the RAM since that would cost them extra. I'll send it in today again and tell him that what he did yesterday was absolutely no help and that I'd like him to check the RAM sticks.

[DBS]

Ram is not super expensive though. How long have you been running it before trouble? Make sure to read up on ram though as you do need to get the best your computer will handle in speed. Mine uses DDR but a lot of new computers use DDR2. Best to get one huge stick for now like a 1 gig and add another later if price is a concern. Not sure how many slots you have for ram- this has 4 but this way you can add more later if needed. And do not buy the cheap stuff get some Crucial/ Kingston ram something of quality. I am no expert but I think there is a lot of cheap stuff out there in price and quality with memory. This might be a dumb question but also make sure the memory you have now in your machine is locked in place and not lose. T urn the machine off and remove the sticks and replace them till they click in place. Worth a try before spending money.

[Mochan]

In that case It's probably a RAM issue.

Like I said, adding one measly fan to the case isn't going to help much if you're red lining. Adding two or three 90mm fans in strategic locations would, but unless you have a Dremel I'd suggest just getting a new case altogether, one with a good cooling design.

But dude, 86C? That's freaking boiling. How hot is it in your country anyway? Even on a bad day here in the RP I never let my temps go over 70. In fact, I freak out at 60. Maybe you do need to get a better-ventilated case.

Anyway changing the RAM should get it to work.

[ilnadmy]

Man, you don't want to know how hot it gets around here, although now it's pretty mild. You also have to keep in mind I have an 8800 GTS and a Core 2 Duo in the same case, so that's a lot of heat right there. When the thing is idle (no games, just Windows desktop) the temperature is 76C, 77C. Is this normal given the components, or should I look at a better case?

I downloaded memtest and ran it for 20 mins and got 3 errors, so I sent it in to the shop. He's currently testing each stick of RAM separately to see which one has errors and replace it (I'm not paying a cent DBS, he's going to replace it for free...which is the only way I would have it). Let's hope this clears up the issue.

[ilnadmy]

So I talked to the owner of the store and he was telling me that they put in the order for a new stick of RAM which should be in by Sunday, and until then I can work on 1GB of RAM.

Anyway we got to talking about other stuff and he told me that I might have to upgrade my motherboard, not now but in the future. I have an Intel 946GZISSL according to the receipt, and he says that while it's good, it's no hard-core gaming motherboard. He says I should think about the 975 and the 965.

I also asked him about the case and the temperature, and he said they have a Thermaltake case that I could get. Now I don't know much about cases and heat, but would getting another case cut down on the heat being generated by the PC?

Lastly, he told me that the RAM I have is a generic brand, and that I could make the switch to Kingston or something a little more sturdy in the future.

Now I know that he's obviously trying to sell me stuff, but I know the guy personally as he's my best friend's older brother. In fact they sold me many of the components, including the 8800, at no profit to themselves (they showed me all the receipts and shipping costs and only charged me that amount), so I know he's not just trying to squeeze some cash out of me. Is what he's saying true? I'm not thinking of making all those purchases obviously, the one I'm eyeing at this time is the case, but I'm just interested in knowing if the guy has a point with the things he's mentioning.

[PapaSmurf]

I haven't heard of a case making much of a differnce, but I guess if the case is made of some sort of heat absorbing material that reflect it into the air I suppose that would be better. I would do some research of my own before just putting money into a case. The guy probably knows what he's talking about, but again how heat is it going to take away?

When it comes to RAM, let me tell you, I have had some generic crap and I've had some great stuff. I forget the ram I put into my PC, it was like 2 years ago, you'd think I'd put more attention into it, but when it comes to RAM usually you are getting what you pay for, or at least thats what I've experienced. I only have a gig of RAM in my PC but twh two 512 sticks I bought at the time were da, sh*t. I'll have to open up my PC today to tell you what kind it is. Needless to say, you have to look at alot of things when it comes to RAM. You should make sure they are the same kind ram I.E. the DDR specs and what not.

As for motherboards, I'm not very well educated on them so I can't give any expert advice on the subject, but again I don't think the guy is pulling your leg.

So yes the guy has a point in the issues he's making. I would think that better RAM would be more helpful to you then a different case unless the case has some special cooling system, but even then. From what I've heard, you have a pretty monster rig, so while the changes your friend is recommending will indeed help you out, I don't think the changes will be monumental especially if you already have a good PC. I would just take all this food for though, for when you get ready to upgrade in the future you get all the best stuff at once, of course that's not what I do, but if you're going to get a custom built PC at once might as well make it as good as possible for what's in your price range.

[DBS]

I know Bane had some heat issues with his geforce card so maybe they are more sensitive to heat. Make sure to keep the fans clean on the video card . For a gaming rig I would only use quality ram especially if you have a hot case. They usually take a beating better !\

[Mochan]

I thought the Core 2 Duo wasn't that hot? I haven't read up on the thermal qualities of the 8800, I know it's got a monster sink so it must really run hot. But I would've thought that monster dual slot sink and the exhaust mechanism would push all the hot air out the back.

That was the beauty of my current rig. I have a 7800GT and an Athlon 64, both of them were actually really cool compared to my last rig, a 9800 Pro and an Athlon XP. On my old rig, my temps were like 56C on average, gets hotter on warm days and goes down to like 46 on a cold morning.

But come my new 7800GT and Athlon 64 my temps were at like 40C average and going up to 45C on a really hot day. And my new casing had less fans to boot! That was just freaking awesome. My current rig is such an awesome piece of work. And my country ain't exactly cool. Not as warm over there I suppose (you are in a desert area right?) but it does get pretty hot here.

Still, 77C idle is WAY too hot. My temps at full load don't even come close to those! That'll definitely shorten the lifespan of your hardware, and even cause errors and issues. A GPU and CPU running too hot won't be able to perform at peak capacity. I don't know how hot it is there, what is the ambient room temp there? What kind of case do you have?

Changing your case won't lessen the heat generated, but a better case will dissipate the heat better. Thermaltake creates good cases that have good thermal capabilities, I'd recommend the Armor or Kandalf cases easily. There were some new cases as well and this big monster Tai Chi case but the one I wanted was the black armor case. But always look the case through to see if you like it. Key components to get are big 160mm fans in the back or in front, fans over where the GPU and CPU are found, and a blow hole on top. Since you don' t work your own rig, you don't need to look at the layout much; me since I work with my cases, I look in to see if I will have a good time working inside the case. I've seen cases with better thermal layouts than TTake cases, but I still like Thermaltake cases because they are built awesome and are usually quality sturdy, and big and roomy and cool. By the way, what makes cases work is the kind of ventilation they have (fan placement and fan size and quality), it's not some kind of heat-reflecting material. :)

As for the RAM, get Kingston or something sturdier just so you don't run into problems like you got right now. Generic RAM tends to have errors like that or break down faster as they are lower quality in their components.

There are mobos that are good for gaming and some that aren't. I am not famliar with the Mobos for the Core 2 Duos but what he's saying is probably correct. Some mobos are just faster than others.

The guy seems to be telling you good stuff, listen to him. What case is he selling you? The RAM you can be satisfied for now but in the future don't skimp, get quality components. When they break down, that's when you buy new components, but I don't think they'll break down anytime soon now that you've gotten rid of the bad sticks, so you'll be fine. As long as the RAM you bought is up to a certain spec, don't feel bad about not getting a Corsair or something. Usually the difference only comes up when you are overclocking anyway. Just make sure the RAM is fast (DDR2-666 for your CPU I suppose) and good latency values.


Also make sure your heatsinks are applied properly to your CPU, with some good quality thermal grease. I don't know how you'd check that though, just ask the guys who built your CPU what paste they used and let's just hope they applied the sink properly.

[PapaSmurf]

Relfect the heat....you used the word dissipate...in my vocabulary these words are interchanglable as to how I view it. Of course ya'll would never understand that but thats what i meant.

[ilnadmy]

That's some good info.

Actually the idle temp is 72C as I checked yesterday. It's actually pretty hot in the house right now but that's because it's sort of that in-between time of year where the weather is nice outside so you don't turn on the air conditioning, but that actually does make the room a little warmer.

I'm just trying to figure out how to get the temp in the case down because if 86C is boiling, then that's not good. Armor and Kandalf are, I'm assuming, not Thermaltake cases. If so we'd probably have to order them, which is not a problem, I just have to tell the guy where I want to get them from (Amazon, newegg, etc...).

[Mochan]

LOL ok I'll keep that in mind Papa, for me there's a nuance to the meaning that makes them different but I'll leave it at that.

The Armor and Kandalf are TTake cases, some of their top-of-the-line cases actually. But considering the ambient temps you have in your area, maybe they're not what you need; what you need is something with a huge fan on the side blowing air in (or out). I've seen some generic cases over here that have this motherass huge fan on the side (about as big as an exhaust vent fan) that would do a better job than any TTake case I've seen.

Here is Thermaltake's site:

http://www.thermaltake.com/index.asp


Looks like they have a new model case, the "Aguila" I wonder if they got that from the Philippines? Aguila means Eagle in my language.

[ilnadmy]

Cool I'll check their site out. If the temps are really as bad as you say they are, then I should deal with that issue ASAP before other components in my PC start getting f***ed up.

BTW, after taking out 1GB of RAM, BF2142 runs MFing slow. I mean lag all over the place. Of course I do have all the graphics turned up, but still, 1GB makes a whole load of difference it seems.

[Mochan]

BF2 needed about 1.5GB of RAM to run properly (meaning you had to have 2GB installed on your PC) so I would imagine BF2142 would be the same.

As for your temps, one thing I have to say il is that back in the day, I always played with my PC case open and an electric fan blowing cool air inside. Today I don't have to resort to such extreme measures if I buy components that I know are not hot (like the aforementione Athlon 64 and GF7800 card) and get a good case with decent ventilation -- after years of building my own PCs and seeing how ventilation works for each I have a good grasp of whether a case is good for my thermal needs or not.

Your country seems a tad hotter than mine so your needs will definitely be greater. One thing you can look at is to use Watercooling but that is heavy expert territory, not something for someone who has never put a PC together to do. So you'll need to rely on your friend's shop to put it together for you if ever.

Fortunately for myself I can survive with just air cooling, I don't feel safe using watercooling for a $1000US piece of hardware. I would still suggest looking for a case with massive fan potential in it. I'm talking about a case that has like a 200mm fan stuck tot he side or something. I've seen such cases where I live and while they can look geeky and are probably notoriously noisy, but when it comes to cooling they should do the trick.

It's holy week coming up and this is traditionallyt he hottest time of the year, and my PC isn't breaking a sweat thanks to how well it was put together. And I only have 3 fans on the case -- one 120mm fan intake in the front and two 80mm exhausts, and my CPU temp is at 45C and GPU is at 57C (these temps go up about 5C at max load). HDD is at 48C and kind of annoying but still within cool operating limits.

[ilnadmy]

The Thermaltake they've got at the shop apparently has a fan in front and one in back, to create sort of a flow of air through the case. That seems like it would be pretty good no?

Also, would you suggest playing the with computer case open? Wouldn't that cause dust and stuff to settle on the computer parts?

[PapaSmurf]

BF2 needed about 1.5GB of RAM to run properly (meaning you had to have 2GB installed on your PC) so I would imagine BF2142 would be the same.

I only have 1 gig of RAM (it's pretty good ram though, I can't remember the exact specs though) and BF2 run fine on my PC with all the graphics turned up. So I'm going to have to disagree with that last statement. Of course there might be a difference on just running on a 1 gig stick of RAM vs 2 512mb sticks of RAM. I've heard it's be better to have two sticks than one in any scenario. BF2142 runs fine too, but I have to turn on the shadows.

[Mochan]

Strange, I recall lots of people complaining about how BF2 had lag with just 1GB of RAM. BF2 was notorious for being the first game that you really needed to have 2GB to play without lag.

Well maybe you got lucky with your system setup. I had 2GB by the time I bought BF2 so I never noticed.

[Mochan]

Oh, Il, 2 fans (one front one back) is the basic setup and is adequate for normal rigs in a normal climate but I get the feeling your PC needs more than that. As for dust settling with an open case, yes that does happen but it will happen even with a closed case, it's not like cases are airtight. It just happens faster with the lid open. I put an aircon filter in my intake and I still get dust inside my case.