Format Wars!! Blu-Ray VS HD-DVD Updates Inside!!!

[Gamer88]

Oh yeah, I lied about the updates

anywho, from my own perspective, I see Blu-Ray stomping HD-DVD into the ground. I don't like to call it early, but as far as advertisements and sales go, is there really any competition?

I have yet to see even one add for HD-DVD, and yet I see many ads, which proclaim exclusivity, for Blu-Ray. Heck, in the recent game informer it said that Microsoft isn't going to include Hd-dvd in their new version of the 360 because the format isn't proven yet. Will it even be proven? Is their even a reason to favor the theoretically less storage capable Hd-dvd? (I heard that Hd-dvd movies are double layered and 30gb right now, while blu ray lags behind at a single layered 25 GB...what does this mean to me as a consumer?)

Does anyone have any real updates on the format wars? Or even any personal opinions? I want to hear from all of you, even you pro-sony propagandists (I'm talking about you Folken...and especially you LastWord, who might actually be on Sony's payroll). What is the deal with the two formats? How are they faring?

From my take, I think if a lesser format is to succeed it at least needs a solid start with solid userbase...does Hd-dvd even have this?

anywho

debate

update

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Oh yeah, I lied about the updates

anywho, from my own perspective, I see Blu-Ray stomping HD-DVD into the ground. I don't like to call it early, but as far as advertisements and sales go, is there really any competition?

I have yet to see even one add for HD-DVD, and yet I see many ads, which proclaim exclusivity, for Blu-Ray. Heck, in the recent game informer it said that Microsoft isn't going to include Hd-dvd in their new version of the 360 because the format isn't proven yet. Will it even be proven? Is their even a reason to favor the theoretically less storage capable Hd-dvd? (I heard that Hd-dvd movies are double layered and 30gb right now, while blu ray lags behind at a single layered 25 GB...what does this mean to me as a consumer?)

Does anyone have any real updates on the format wars? Or even any personal opinions? I want to hear from all of you, even you pro-sony propagandists (I'm talking about you Folken...and especially you LastWord, who might actually be on Sony's payroll). What is the deal with the two formats? How are they faring?

From my take, I think if a lesser format is to succeed it at least needs a solid start with solid userbase...does Hd-dvd even have this?

anywho

debate

update


Yeah Bluray is winning, the problem is what are they winning. Let's see take a movie like 'The Departed' i'm just making these numbers up, but say it has moved 60,000 copies on HD-DVD, now let's say Blu-ray doubled that with 120,000. The sales stats will say Blu-ray is doubling HD-DVD sales. But the volume is so low it is insignificant. Meanwhile sales of The Departed on DVD might be 1,000,000 discs. So until either HD-DVD or Blu-ray start approaching what DVDs are selling, then no clear winner can be declared because the numbers are insignificant. Is Bluray winning, yes it is, is that better than losing like it was, yes it is. But is the war close to being over, no its not, unfortunately this will be a long protracted format war.

As evidence that the HD-DVD group isn't freaking out about the uptic in Bluray sales, Universal will be releasing 100 movies on HD-DVD this year alone that won't be on Bluray. Warner is releasing the Matrix Trilogoy on HD-DVD very soon, i forget the ship date, there is a Bluray version of the Matrix in the works, but its not out anytime soon.

I know i'll be watching Children of Men manana in HD-DVD though, this is one I might actuallly buy.

[joquito]

TMG makes some good points. No one is really winning this format war. Even if one format dies, it is not guaranteed that the other will succeed. Despite the lower storage space, most enthusiast still say that HD-DVD players and Disc look better than their Blu-ray counterparts. So to say that HD-DVD is inferior to Blu-ray is to do so out of ignorance. If Sony put movies on Dual-Layered disc, then second layer would be full of filler. Granted Sony could use Mpeg 2 encoding which would require more space but since VC-1 is a more effiecient codec, Sony would end up with movies that look worse and take up more space.

The movie exclusive deals are tied in with the success of the PS3. If the PS3 fails to show up, then studios will more than likely turn format neutral. This is already starting to happen. Look at LG's Super Blue player that plays both formats, and Warner Bros. THD discs that have Blu-ray on one side and HD-DVD on the other. So as the industry becomes more format neutral, the advantage goes to HD-DVD with its cheaper price. If anyone remembers, at CES, Toshiba annouced that chinese manufacturers will be producing HD-DVD players, so we should expect $299 players by the end of the year.

I personally think both formats will die, and something else will replace it. I ultimately think Blu-ray will bow out first.

[Gamer From '78]

TMG makes some good points. No one is really winning this format war. Even if one format dies, it is not guaranteed that the other will succeed. Despite the lower storage space, most enthusiast still say that HD-DVD players and Disc look better than their Blu-ray counterparts. So to say that HD-DVD is inferior to Blu-ray is to do so out of ignorance. If Sony put movies on Dual-Layered disc, then second layer would be full of filler. Granted Sony could use Mpeg 2 encoding which would require more space but since VC-1 is a more effiecient codec, Sony would end up with movies that look worse and take up more space.

The movie exclusive deals are tied in with the success of the PS3. If the PS3 fails to show up, then studios will more than likely turn format neutral. This is already starting to happen. Look at LG's Super Blue player that plays both formats, and Warner Bros. THD discs that have Blu-ray on one side and HD-DVD on the other. So as the industry becomes more format neutral, the advantage goes to HD-DVD with its cheaper price. If anyone remembers, at CES, Toshiba annouced that chinese manufacturers will be producing HD-DVD players, so we should expect $299 players by the end of the year.

I personally think both formats will die, and something else will replace it. I ultimately think Blu-ray will bow out first.

A point I haven't seen anyone here asking/stating....if Blu-Ray dies, where does that leave backward compatibility with the PS3 when it is eventually replaced with the PS4?

I've viewed both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD and can honestly say that neither has gotten anywhere NEAR convincing me to replace my DVD collection or invest in a new, unproven format. They may look "slightly" better than standard DVD, but I'm not willing to start buying them in place of my standard DVD format only to have support dry up and fizzle out down the road. No sir, not for me.

I own a Nine Inch Nails concert, King Kong and Constantine in HD-DVD format and for now, that's all I plan on owning. I may buy a set of Lord of the Rings in HD down the road to COMPLEMENT my DVD versions, but that's about it.

[Mochan]

A point I haven't seen anyone here asking/stating....if Blu-Ray dies, where does that leave backward compatibility with the PS3 when it is eventually replaced with the PS4?

Same thing that happened to Nintendo and Sega cartridges from the 8/16/64 bit days -- in the gutter. Unless the new format that emerges is Bluray Compatible like DVDs and CDs are.

[ilnadmy]

In 6 years' time Blu-ray will probably be so cheap to manufacture it'll be like adding CD-ROM functionality to a DVD drive.

[Glockstar]

I think the two formats are a joke. And think that they're even more laughable now then I did 6-months ago.

But first things first, the point that HD-DVD has less storage space than Blu-ray is theoretical. If you're just looking at raw numbers then yeah, Blu-ray has more. But it needs more. Because they use an ancient codec for it. HD-DVD uses a new codec.

And if there really and truly is a difference in the visual quality between the two formats - even though both are 1080p - despite the storage capacity - then all codecs must not be equal. And that's how superiority should be determined and judged. By quality, not quantity; by content, and not size.

But personally I think it's a moot point either way. Because a "better" picture is a relative thing. I have a (relatively) new big screen HDTV, I now have 50", 720p TV - whereas before I had 27", CRT TV: My picture is already tons better! You know what I mean?

I just don't see the value in a new $500-$1000 movie player. Maybe if they upscaled my "old" DVDs to the best output... But they don't. In order to get the best picture I also have to buy all new disks - or replace my "old" ones. But then we're not just talking about $500-$1000, we're talking about $20-$30 additional cost per disk. Hogwash! For the cost, better is good enough.

Especially when the only thing I'm getting from Blu-ray and HD-DVD is the best picture. I've looked at the disk packages and the content thereon... and I haven't seen any Blu-ray or HD-DVD movie come out with more special features or "DVD extras" than what's already been put out on the DVD versions (or what could be put out, if the studios weren't such moneygrubbing bastards). Other than the picture quality, HD-DVD and Blu-ray movies are the exact same as their DVD counterparts (only they are priced $20-$30 more!)!

I hope both die and go to hell. (Cue Mr. Garrison, please.)

[folken001]

I don't just see both formats in terms of movies. I look at them more as storage mediums. These days, 4 GB or even 8 GB dual layer dvd discs really aren't enough for me. HDDVD's 15 GB is not bad. If that was the only format offered, I would adapt to it. But, why would I when Blu-ray is bigger and is priced around the same?

I think both HDDVD and Blu-ray are getting support much faster than DVD used to be. I love how people dismiss either format by saying something better will replace them. However, there will always be some time before the price of new technolog to come down. CD burner used to cost tons. I suppose the industry should've just waited for DVD to come around. But, DVD burners cost a lot too when it first came out too. Damn, why do new things keep coming out. Let's just not buy anything until mankind can't make anything better. We should all just buy better technology....in our next lives.

My conclusion is that Blu-ray is going to win. I dont' know what M$ is doing. XBL movie download service is counterproductive to its HDDVD effort. It's kinda dividing its potential userbase. Sony, on the other hand, is smart and installing blu-ray players through PS3 into house holds.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

I think the two formats are a joke. And think that they're even more laughable now then I did 6-months ago.

But first things first, the point that HD-DVD has less storage space than Blu-ray is theoretical. If you're just looking at raw numbers then yeah, Blu-ray has more. But it needs more. Because they use an ancient codec for it. HD-DVD uses a new codec.

And if there really and truly is a difference in the visual quality between the two formats - even though both are 1080p - despite the storage capacity - then all codecs must not be equal. And that's how superiority should be determined and judged. By quality, not quantity; by content, and not size.

But personally I think it's a moot point either way. Because a "better" picture is a relative thing. I have a (relatively) new big screen HDTV, I now have 50", 720p TV - whereas before I had 27", CRT TV: My picture is already tons better! You know what I mean?

I just don't see the value in a new $500-$1000 movie player. Maybe if they upscaled my "old" DVDs to the best output... But they don't. In order to get the best picture I also have to buy all new disks - or replace my "old" ones. But then we're not just talking about $500-$1000, we're talking about $20-$30 additional cost per disk. Hogwash! For the cost, better is good enough.

Especially when the only thing I'm getting from Blu-ray and HD-DVD is the best picture. I've looked at the disk packages and the content thereon... and I haven't seen any Blu-ray or HD-DVD movie come out with more special features or "DVD extras" than what's already been put out on the DVD versions (or what could be put out, if the studios weren't such moneygrubbing bastards). Other than the picture quality, HD-DVD and Blu-ray movies are the exact same as their DVD counterparts (only they are priced $20-$30 more!)!

I hope both die and go to hell. (Cue Mr. Garrison, please.)


Oh gawd there is tremendous difference in visual quality though. I'm getting to where I can't stand to watch movies in SD. I just watched Miami Vice the other night on HD-DVD simply gorgeous, this week I got Babel in and I'll be buying Children of Men. Also caught See No Evil from LIVE in HD, and will get Saw3 from LIVE in HD.

Of course watching HD tv shows is also like night and day over SD, SD being night, lol. If you aren't concerned about HD movies and tv shows I suggest you never start watching the, once you do, you'll be hooked.

I really don't care which format wins, but I definitely want and believe that HD is here to stay. For now I'm just rolling with it, it is what it is. I look at it like this, Laserdiscs and DVD when they first dropped I paid way more than $200 to get into the game. So I know before HD-DVD wins or loses I will get more than $200 worth of usage from my HD-DVD player.

[Mochan]

I'm with DaMan here, going HD then moving back to regular just plain sucks. You guys have heard me whine and whine about what an eyesore it is to game on the XBox or PS2 after gaming on a good PC, it's the same concept here.

That said, I also see Bluray beyond movie terms -- as an absolute space storage format it is clearly superior. It may use an inferior codec now, but that can be remedied by, uh, switching codecs.

I also find it a bit funny that MS has finally conceded that the 360 "may" have Bluray support in the future. What's this, do the suits smell the impending victory of Bluray? While 360 is trouncing the PS3 and we can smell it, likewise Bluray is trouncing HD DVD.

Does it matter you ask, when DVD is still rampantly more prolific? Well likewise you could ask, do the PS3 and 360 matter when the Wii is kicking their asses?

[Gamer88]

From an relatively uniformed consumer (myself) I can see one of these formats taking off, most likely blu-ray. Why? Despite the lack of sales numbers, I still at least see blu-ray marketing everywhere, and if I wanted to fork over the cash I know that I could get the movies, and players in my own city. To me, that means something, that means this format is going somewhere.

Also, my grandma was talking about getting one, which really surprised me, because she isn't exactly a tech-buff...


heh, of course, betamax was probably readily available back in the day, I got my hands on the first betamax player I had ever seen a week ago. My friend's family still uses it to this day, I don't know why, but they used to copy movies from VHS to betamax (I guess they stored more on one disk) so they got a lot of crap on the betamax format. I guess it worked out for them in that way, and even if it fails as a mainstream format, at least as a gaming format for the PS3 it should still have it's uses.

[folken001]

And to my knowledge, Betamax was also more expensive to VHS, right? I think Blu-ray movies cost about the same as HDDVD movies?