To HD or not to HD?

[Tappy_Tibbons]

Seriously folks. This new generation of consoles bothers the crap out of me. Half the posts I see on ANY board online is about nit picking consoles because of HDMI this or 1080P that and, in truth, it's not a realistic stance as a gamer. Ok, so now that DVD has finally become the standard for movies with VHS not even being rented anymore hardly as well as the fact that they are nearly impossible to find to buy, now, not 1 but 2 new "Standards" are shoved down my throat...the consumer. Call me crazy, but...*gasp* I don't own a HDTV...yes folks, sad but true, I know...but you know what's even funnier? MOST PEOPLE DON'T. Why do you think the FCC keeps pushing the SDTV cutoff back further and further every year?

So explain to me why is every one under the Internet monitor glow so tantalized by HDTV? Do ANY of you really believe HD or BD is going to become the new standard? If you do, you're all out of your minds. Have fun trying to act like such technophiles but, in truth, you are a minority that may have spoken with a loud voice, but when Sony and MS realize that their product isn't selling, maybe...just maybe they will come back to terms with the "ignorant masses", such as myself. I plan on getting a 360 one day, yes...maybe even a PS3, but when crap is thrown at me like "you can't read the text on Dead Rising unless you have an HDTV" it pushes me AWAY from going next gen. I will probably just get a Wii...it's probably more fun anyway.

I don't have the $$ or the patience to go HDTV right now, and you folks need to realize that MOST gamers AREN'T on HDTVs at this point. I think I'll just upgrade my PC some more and let you suckers blow all your wads on overpriced HDTVs in which NO TRUE STANDARDS have been developed. How many of you have a 1080p HDTV? Anyone? How do I know that if I go and buy a cutting edge 1080p plasma tomorrow that there won't be 1280p or something next week?

The HD console generation came too soon and BOTH HD and BD will be the equivalent of BETA MAX in the end. I don't buy that this is "natural progression" at all whatsoever. What I see is a bottleneck of technology going way too fast that is alienating the general gaming populace. We're NOT all rich and see the need to finance a $3000 tv, sorry, but no.

Oh, and once again, the Wii wins. I want a Wii.

[Gadfly2317]

Awesome. Tappy on board with Nintendo. Now I KNOW Sony and MS are doomed. Seriously.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

Seriously folks. This new generation of consoles bothers the crap out of me. Half the posts I see on ANY board online is about nit picking consoles because of HDMI this or 1080P that and, in truth, it's not a realistic stance as a gamer. Ok, so now that DVD has finally become the standard for movies with VHS not even being rented anymore hardly as well as the fact that they are nearly impossible to find to buy, now, not 1 but 2 new "Standards" are shoved down my throat...the consumer. Call me crazy, but...*gasp* I don't own a HDTV...yes folks, sad but true, I know...but you know what's even funnier? MOST PEOPLE DON'T. Why do you think the FCC keeps pushing the SDTV cutoff back further and further every year?

So explain to me why is every one under the Internet monitor glow so tantalized by HDTV? Do ANY of you really believe HD or BD is going to become the new standard? If you do, you're all out of your minds. Have fun trying to act like such technophiles but, in truth, you are a minority that may have spoken with a loud voice, but when Sony and MS realize that their product isn't selling, maybe...just maybe they will come back to terms with the "ignorant masses", such as myself. I plan on getting a 360 one day, yes...maybe even a PS3, but when crap is thrown at me like "you can't read the text on Dead Rising unless you have an HDTV" it pushes me AWAY from going next gen. I will probably just get a Wii...it's probably more fun anyway.

I don't have the $$ or the patience to go HDTV right now, and you folks need to realize that MOST gamers AREN'T on HDTVs at this point. I think I'll just upgrade my PC some more and let you suckers blow all your wads on overpriced HDTVs in which NO TRUE STANDARDS have been developed. How many of you have a 1080p HDTV? Anyone? How do I know that if I go and buy a cutting edge 1080p plasma tomorrow that there won't be 1280p or something next week?

The HD console generation came too soon and BOTH HD and BD will be the equivalent of BETA MAX in the end. I don't buy that this is "natural progression" at all whatsoever. What I see is a bottleneck of technology going way too fast that is alienating the general gaming populace. We're NOT all rich and see the need to finance a $3000 tv, sorry, but no.

Oh, and once again, the Wii wins. I want a Wii.

At Tigerdirect.com they are selling a 42" widescreen LCD 1080p with a decent 1000:1 contrast ratio for $1200. It has capability to be used at a HUGE PC monitor and a TV, too. For a budget price for that size even I'm tempted to give it a whirl. So don't give up on HDTV. It is the now. It is the future. So for me, who has moved on to nothing but HD, the Wii would be no more pleasurable than taking one.

[joquito]

All non-HDTVs come with a sticker on the box. The label is a disclaimer stating that," On February 17, 2009 this product will need a HD convertor box to receive Television signals." The HD standard has been set years and years ago. Almost all local broadcasters are broadcasting in HD via over-the-air signals. The most popular shows are virtually all in HD today. While writing this I googled the top 20 shows via nielsen and 15 of the top shows were in HD. The other 5 were either reality TV (Made for the purpose of being cheap) or news programming. Some people have never seen an SD and HD image next to each other, so ignorance is bliss, but once you do, the difference is undeniable.

HDTV standards:
HD broadcast comes in 2 forms -1080i & 720p(Only ESPN and ABC use this resolution)

The 1080p thing today is a marketing gimmick to sell LCDs which are more expensive and lower in picture quality than plasmas. Consumers feel more comfortable buying a TV with a particular spec. than something based upon what they actually see. Most 720p plasmas look better than their 1080p LCD counterparts. BTW, I am ISF certified (Imaging Science Foundation) to calibrate HDTVs, so I know what I am speaking of. Lastly, there is no plans to broadcast in 1080p, and no reason to.

The HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray battle is something you should wait out if you are thinking of buying a stand-alone player. If you get it for free with a PS3 great or if it only cost you $200 to add it to your Xbox360, GO FOR IT!!!! In this circumstance its worth the price of admission.

Gaming on an HDTV is awesome. Ever since the days of the DC, I've always been an advocate for buying a VGA adapter and gaming on your PC moniter, which is for all purposes an HDTV. Its costs you very little and you get all the benefits of HD gaming except you are using a 19"- 21" screen instead of a 32" - 60" screen .


I implore you to buy a VGA adapter and start HD gaming now!!! See how the games how they are suppose to look like. HD gaming started last gen, so you will gain more appreciation for the games you already own, not to mention the current gen games you will buy in the future.

If you want to know what TV to buy at a particular price and size, PM and I'll give you a heads up.

[Renzatic Gear]

The HDTV set is still on the outskirts of technophilia at the moment. It's making headway into the average consumer market, but we've still got about 3 years before we see it as a true standard.

The only problem with it is Sony, and to a lesser extent MS, trying to force it down our throats instead of letting it take it's natural progression. DVD was out for 2 to 3 years before people started to adopt it. Now we have HD-DVD and Blu-Ray getting shoved in our faces almost as soon as it's made the leap out of the test markets.

To put it perspective, the jump from VHS to DVD was HUGE. Anyone with even a remotely decent TV could see the difference in quality and features. But to take advantage of the two new formats, you not only need an expensive player, but a top of the line TV to justify the purchase.

For your average mom and pop, it's just not worth the time and effort spent. They don't want to spend $2000+ on a TV and Blu-Ray player to watch old movies that use specifications they don't understand. They just want to watch movies. The same can be said of the consoles. 1080p is a damn nice feature for a console to be sporting, and it looks great these tech sheet the hardcore fanboys like to wave in peoples faces. But it won't be 1080p that sells consoles, it'll be the games.

It seems that MS and especially Sony have tried to leapfrog a generation, and it's costing both companies a helluva lot of money to do so.

[joquito]

HD gaming may be a choice, but HDTV isn't. The switch from analog to DTV is all about politics. Here's the story:

The analog channels that one can pick up on a TV with a basic antenna, those frequencies have been loaned to the local broadcasters for free. The government wants to take those frequencies back and auction them off the the higher bidder. Remember when people would talk of the government having this huge surplus, well the money to be received from this auction is what they were talking about. The government has based their budget on what they think the frequencies will sell for. So like it or not HDTV is coming fast (2/17/2009) the govt doesn't care whether or not you have an HDTV on that date.

[Renzatic Gear]

Yeah, but they'll be broadcast in resolutions that the lower end HDTV sets are capable of displaying (720i/p). I'm *****ing about the expensive high end and how it's come about in this round of the console wars, and I threw in the format war for added spice.

[joquito]

Yeah, but they'll be broadcast in resolutions that the lower end HDTV sets are capable of displaying (720i/p). I'm *****ing about the expensive high end and how it's come about in this round of the console wars, and I threw in the format war for added spice.

The whole resolution game is so lame. HDTV broadcast only come in 2 flavors (1080i/720p) and any set labelled HDTV can receive and display the 2 resolutions. Like I posted before, the 1080p is for the same suckers who will believe that McDonalds makes better food than Morton's Steakhouse, if some specification or Consumer Reports told them so.

Whats funny is that HDTVs have been sold for over 10 years but people only started buying them when DVD arrived. DVD, which isn't even HD, looked better on HDTVs and so people started buy the expensive sets. Granted the "Wife Exceptance Factor" of the Plasma didn't hurt sales either.

[trebor]

My wife and I took the HDTV plunge when we saw a pretty smoking deal on a 42" Toshiba DLP 720p/1080i set. We do have quite a few HD channels now, which look pretty damn amazing, but overall there are several things that are kinda "unknown" until you get a new set.

First and foremost, SD broadcasting will magically look like **** the first time you see it on your expensive HDTV. This is because the tv is scaling the puny 480 image up to it's native resolution, which is 720p in my case. Anyone who knows Photoshop should know what a jpeg looks like when you scale it up 4 times it size - interpolation, fuzzyness, and general crapiness. Well, it's basically the same for a SD signal going to an HD set.

But, and this is what I've come to learn is of major importance, the scaling technology in your set makes a HUGE difference. Case in point, once I figured out how to calibrate my setup for optimum performance (basically telling the cable box to turn OFF any 480 filtering) my SD picture improved quite a bit, because the scaling tech in Toshibas is damn good. Whereas my friend who bought a 42" plasma on the same day has a not so great scaler in his TV, so SD broadcasting looks like **** no matter what he does.

The other major thing that nobody tells you is that HDTV scalers sometime lag, basically making videogames that run in 480 signals completely unplayable. Luckily, again, the scaler in the Toshibas have NO scaling lag, so thus it is a great TV to play older (or Nintendo) videogame consoles on.

Lastly, I have NO intention of going either Blu-ray OR HD-DVD, as most DVDs looks pretty damn great on my old progressive scan DVD player. But, if I really wanted a higher resolution, I could buy a DVD player that upconverts the DVD quality to near HD levels, making the "High def" formats completely irrelevant.

[ilnadmy]

Why do you think the FCC keeps pushing the SDTV cutoff back further and further every year?

'Cause the FCC won't let me be or let me be me so let me see...

Seriously though. This is one of the reasons why I'm considering getting a PSP as my next system purchase. No need to mess around with HDTV's and their bullsh** (and I know that you need an HDTV to really appreciate the next gen of games). I figure I'll wait a year until prices come down, then when I'm ready (and when Casino Royale is out on Blu-ray) I'll get a PS3 and a cheapy HDTV. And if HDTVs are still expensive? Screw it, I'll just wait it out. I'm not in a hurry anyway. For the kinda cash I'd blow on an HDTV I can get a DirectX 10 card for my PC, upgrade the RAM, and have a rig that will outperform any next-gen system. :D

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

I've seen a 360 on SD only once it was Fight Night 3 and DOA4 and honestly there is a huge difference in quality with the games. Fight night even has a different intro.

Now DVD's played on a progressive scan DVD player I don't see much difference at all. I've watched Chronicles of Narnia with ondemand hd and on a regular DVd and there wasn't that big a difference same with Episode 3. But regular TV something like 24 there is an incredible leap in quality.

Right now there are some movies that are coming out in dual format standard DVD and HDDVD I think this is the way to go. I know I won't ever replace my DVD collection but I'm willing to start buying every thing new in HD.

[Mochan]

HD Gaming is definitely worth it. Standard Def just looks so ugly, and I made this point some 5 years ago when I said the graphics of FFX looked ugly.

But anyway right now I can do without an HDTV. I found some relatively cheap HDTVs around here and have been toying with the notion of getting one as a replacement for my PC monitor (not necessarily to console game with), since I honestly use my PC for so much that having a bigger monitor for it would be awesome. But I can do without an HDTV because my monitor already lets me game in HD.

Trebor, regarding scaling yes I've felt your pain when I moved to LCDs from CRTs for just a PC monitor. Gaming for anything outside of the native res of my monitor just looked plain bad, since my monitor was rather cheap and its scaling ability was piss poor. I switched to GPU scaling which was a lot better, but still not pretty.

[Fivespot]

How many of you have a 1080p HDTV? Anyone?

I do.

Just picked up this TV two weeks ago:

http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Sony-40-BRAVIA-V-Series-LCD-HDTV-KDL-40V2500/sem/rpsm/oid/160778/catOid/-12867/rpem/ccd/productDetail.do

Is there a difference between SD and HD for gaming? Hell yeah, a considerable one as well.

Is there a difference between 720p and 1080p for gaming and/or high def DVD (HD DVD, Blu ray)? Not really as of yet. I took the future into consideration when I bought this TV however and the future is looking more and more 1080p every day (even if television will only broadcast at 720p). At some point in the very near future, my buying a 1080p over 720p/1080i might become a smart move. If not, oh well.

I'm loving this television by the way. It has a great picture!! Joquito can you swing by and hook me up with a professional calibration ;)

[joquito]

Hey FIVESPOT,

If you live in New England, I would give you a freebie. Most calibrater charge $300. To get you by, just grab a DVD with the THX logo on it. Put the DVD in your player/console. On the main menu of the DVD, look for "Options" or "Setup". Then look for "THX Optimizer", sometimes its hidden in the background, but you can click on it.
Its not the same as a calibration, but it will at least allow you to gain more resolution out of your set by adjusting the black and white levels properly. Also every TV out of the box has the sharpness control way off as well and it will help you set that as well.

[Mochan]

Hey joquito, there are lots of weird brands here I dunno if they are any good. Like BiTe. Is that a bad brand? There was another one I saw that looked decent. There are some nice Sony, Sharp and Phillips sets that are around the price I am willing to pay as well but it never hurts to look for an even better deal.

[Fivespot]

Hey FIVESPOT,

If you live in New England, I would give you a freebie. Most calibrater charge $300. To get you by, just grab a DVD with the THX logo on it. Put the DVD in your player/console. On the main menu of the DVD, look for "Options" or "Setup". Then look for "THX Optimizer", sometimes its hidden in the background, but you can click on it.
Its not the same as a calibration, but it will at least allow you to gain more resolution out of your set by adjusting the black and white levels properly. Also every TV out of the box has the sharpness control way off as well and it will help you set that as well.

Close, I live in Wisconsin ;)

Thanks for the advice! I was going to wait a bit as there is a HD DVD coming out soon made specifically for calibrating high def television sets.

$300! Wow, everything associated with these high def tv's is expensive these days. I was offered a warrany at CC for $459. That's like 25% of what I paid for the thing. Rediculous price in my opinion.

[Glockstar]

Didn't CC give you a calibration/set-up disk thingie? Here, let me find mine...

It's called "Big Screen Performance Kit". It comes with a "Cleaning Disc" (pfffft :rolleyes:), and a "Quick Guide Disk" (along with this clear blue film thingie) - on which are a bunch of test patterns to help you set up your settings (like contrast, brightness, sharpness, etc).

I don't know... jo, is this thing worth a damn?

[Fivespot]

No, CC showed it to me but indicated it was free with the warranty. They didn't offer it to me without purchasing the warranty.

Maybe I should go back and ask for one. With as much money I spend there, they should drive over and hook me up ;)

[Tappy_Tibbons]

The HDTV set is still on the outskirts of technophilia at the moment. It's making headway into the average consumer market, but we've still got about 3 years before we see it as a true standard.

The only problem with it is Sony, and to a lesser extent MS, trying to force it down our throats instead of letting it take it's natural progression. DVD was out for 2 to 3 years before people started to adopt it. Now we have HD-DVD and Blu-Ray getting shoved in our faces almost as soon as it's made the leap out of the test markets.

To put it perspective, the jump from VHS to DVD was HUGE. Anyone with even a remotely decent TV could see the difference in quality and features. But to take advantage of the two new formats, you not only need an expensive player, but a top of the line TV to justify the purchase.

For your average mom and pop, it's just not worth the time and effort spent. They don't want to spend $2000+ on a TV and Blu-Ray player to watch old movies that use specifications they don't understand. They just want to watch movies. The same can be said of the consoles. 1080p is a damn nice feature for a console to be sporting, and it looks great these tech sheet the hardcore fanboys like to wave in peoples faces. But it won't be 1080p that sells consoles, it'll be the games.

It seems that MS and especially Sony have tried to leapfrog a generation, and it's costing both companies a helluva lot of money to do so.


I think Rez is on my wavelength here. The AVERAGE person isn't on the Internet arguing about BD vs HD. The average parents are going out spending thousands for their kid's gaming habits.

In a way, I am delighted that these consoles SUPPORT HD...all that's irking me is that console games aren't showing the MAJORITY of their userbase...that is, SDTV the respect they are due...again, Dead Rising's text is pretty much unreadable on SDTV.

[Fivespot]

XBOX 360 & Sony PS3 are "next gen". I'm glad they're increasing resolution as they make a generational jump in there hardware. Folks not willing to pony up for a HD or upset that new consoles aren't catering to SD specifically have a simple solution: keep playing last gen stuff which has a lot to offer by the way.

It wouldn't be "next gen" to me if they didn't support HD to it's fullest potential.

[ilnadmy]

And finally Hell freezes over. Console gaming is now as expensive, if not more so, than PC gaming.

Enjoy the Armageddon.

[Tappy_Tibbons]

Yes, ilnad...my sentiments exactly.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

And finally Hell freezes over. Console gaming is now as expensive, if not more so, than PC gaming.

Enjoy the Armageddon.

60 dollars a game. 600 dollar console. DOA Blueray technology. $250 with no HD. Just some of the reasons why I won't give them a try.

[NEO-360]

And finally Hell freezes over. Console gaming is now as expensive, if not more so, than PC gaming.

Enjoy the Armageddon.

100% :cool: