PS3 gets another kick to the nuts

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Man oh Man the writing is on the wall. Well Sony loses it's best selling franchise in Japan. DQ8 will be exlusively made for the Nintendo DS. WTF!!! I don't care about this game one way or the other but damn this has got to hurt. I thought it would be a side story but apparently it's a full adventure.

Linkage

http://ds.ign.com/articles/750/750590p1.html

[folken001]

Man oh Man the writing is on the wall. Well Sony loses it's best selling franchise in Japan. DQ8 will be exlusively made for the Nintendo DS. WTF!!! I don't care about this game one way or the other but damn this has got to hurt. I thought it would be a side story but apparently it's a full adventure.

Linkage

http://ds.ign.com/articles/750/750590p1.html

It is DQ9, first of all

2ndly, DQ has been sucking big time ever since 5. I think it's quite retarded to make a recongized series exclusive for a handheld, much more so when someone gets excited over it. Seriously, Xbox360's ass can do way more than what DS can.

[silversparrow]

DQ has been sucking big time ever since 5.

Sucking or not, these games are huge in Japan. Ultimately there'll be fewer PS3s moved in Japan as a consequence of this.

[folken001]

Sucking or not, these games are huge in Japan. Ultimately there'll be fewer PS3s moved in Japan as a consequence of this.

This doesn't mean there won't any DQ titles for PS3 in the future either. Sony is currently having problem to push enough PS3s to meet the demand. What is the point getting a DQ title for PS3?

[silversparrow]

This doesn't mean there won't any DQ titles for PS3 in the future either. Sony is currently having problem to push enough PS3s to meet the demand. What is the point getting a DQ title for PS3?

The effect will be later down the line, not now. DQ games are the kind that move systems when they are released. That's not to say the PS3 won't do well in Japan, just that the DS will take a chunk out of its fanbase.

[T.Tashi]

The effect will be later down the line, not now. DQ games are the kind that move systems when they are released. That's not to say the PS3 won't do well in Japan, just that the DS will take a chunk out of its fanbase.

I dunno... we are talking a handheld vs. a console. By the time a DQ title hits, the market is probably already saturated with systems. So I don't know if the DQ series ever really proved to be a system seller perse, at least in the way way Blue Dragon will probably move 360s. I find it a little hard to imagine a Japanese gamer not buying a PS3 because of one title being absent, even when it's DQ. I don't think it'll be significant for Sony in the long run. But nonetheless, from a developer point of view, the DS platform makes total financial sense. The DS Lite is outselling everything else by a ridiculous margin.

[Pandarbock]

Who is kidding who? Dragon quest is as big if not bigger than FF over in japan, this will no doubt solidify the DS in japan as leader till the little thing is replaced by nintendos next handheld and increase sells of the system even more when released. This would be more of a huge blow to the psp though than anything i should think, because the ps3 has yet to prove itself as anything in anyway as of yet in any part of the world.

[folken001]

The point that needs to be readdressed once again here is that PS3 hasn't lost DQ series. The reason why DS is picked over PS3 is probably because there aren't enough PS3 around yet. So it's only logical to see something like this happen. This kinda blows on Xbox360. Square might have talk about how they are impartial to all next gen consoles, but it picked DS over 360. Square rather takes its major title to the weakest platform out there. Honestly though, I didn't expect 9 to be announced this fast considering 8 just came out not too long ago.

I think most people who want a DS probably have one by now. Who else is holding back on buying a cheap DS other than the people who just don't care to have one, like me? I don't think this will boost the sale of DS or hurt the sale of PSP much at all. But, that's just me.

[folken001]

I dunno... we are talking a handheld vs. a console. By the time a DQ title hits, the market is probably already saturated with systems. So I don't know if the DQ series ever really proved to be a system seller perse, at least in the way way Blue Dragon will probably move 360s. I find it a little hard to imagine a Japanese gamer not buying a PS3 because of one title being absent, even when it's DQ. I don't think it'll be significant for Sony in the long run. But nonetheless, from a developer point of view, the DS platform makes total financial sense. The DS Lite is outselling everything else by a ridiculous margin.
Still though, DS is so overrated.

[Renzatic Gear]

Dragon Quest is absolutely huge in Japan. I'm surprised that a huge Japan fanatic like you doesn't know that, Folken. Any time a new DQ game comes out over there, they call a national holiday and give everyone the day off so they won't have huge amounts of students and office suits skipping class/work.

As for why I prefer DQ8 to FF8-11...that's easy. Dragon Quest 8's strength was based around it's characters, and the plot is built around them. It's the complete opposite of any of the recent FF games (save 12, I hear it's pretty good), where you have paper thin characters that exist solely to serve the overly complicated borderline nonsensical plot.

Seriously. Anyone that actually played FFX for more than 10 minutes and said "wow, this Tidus character is pretty cool" has something seriously wrong with them.

[folken001]

Dragon Quest is absolutely huge in Japan. I'm surprised that a huge Japan fanatic like you doesn't know that, Folken. Any time a new DQ game comes out over there, they call a national holiday and give everyone the day off so they won't have huge amounts of students and office suits skipping class/work.

As for why I prefer DQ8 to FF8-11...that's easy. Dragon Quest 8's strength was based around it's characters, and the plot is built around them. It's the complete opposite of any of the recent FF games (save 12, I hear it's pretty good), where you have paper thin characters that exist solely to serve the overly complicated borderline nonsensical plot.

Seriously. Anyone that actually played FFX for more than 10 minutes and said "wow, this Tidus character is pretty cool" has something seriously wrong with them.

I know about it but I still think DQ has been sucking hard lately.

From what you are saying about DQ8, it seems as if we didn't play the same game. I've played about 15 hrs of the game and I got so tired of it and I quit. That is what happened with DQ7 too. The battle system is absolutely boring. The story didn't stand out exactly either. FF12's story isn't that much brighter but at least it is somewhat fun to fight the enmeies and such. That's soemthing I didn't find in DQ8. The only reason to "charge" is really just so you can see the main character to turn into Goku.

I agree with you that FFX's story is lame. I didn't like it either. Yet again, battle system was much better. It at least kept me awake.

[T.Tashi]

Who is kidding who? Dragon quest is as big if not bigger than FF over in japan, this will no doubt solidify the DS in japan as leader till the little thing is replaced by nintendos next handheld and increase sells of the system even more when released. This would be more of a huge blow to the psp though than anything i should think, because the ps3 has yet to prove itself as anything in anyway as of yet in any part of the world.

I think it's already solidified. I don't think the DS is gonna get caught, even if DQ was exclusive to PSP. It's literally killing everything else by leaps and bounds. I don't know the actual numbers but I think the DS is possibly outselling every other console and handheld, combined. No doubt DQ is huger than huge, but the DS all by itself, is equally huge. I think Level 5 has more to gain by being on the DS, than Nintendo has to gain by having a DQ exclusive.

[Renzatic Gear]

DQ8 got alot better the deeper you got into it. And the battle system...well, I thought it was fun. Definately oldschool, but it kept you on your toes.

[T.Tashi]

Dragon Quest is absolutely huge in Japan. I'm surprised that a huge Japan fanatic like you doesn't know that, Folken. Any time a new DQ game comes out over there, they call a national holiday and give everyone the day off so they won't have huge amounts of students and office suits skipping class/work.

As for why I prefer DQ8 to FF8-11...that's easy. Dragon Quest 8's strength was based around it's characters, and the plot is built around them. It's the complete opposite of any of the recent FF games (save 12, I hear it's pretty good), where you have paper thin characters that exist solely to serve the overly complicated borderline nonsensical plot.

Seriously. Anyone that actually played FFX for more than 10 minutes and said "wow, this Tidus character is pretty cool" has something seriously wrong with them.

FFX's saving character grace was Auron. Similarly I don't find Vaan an interesting character. However, the other characters around him are much more developed. Otherwise the story (and VO) is pretty good, but you could take Vaan out the game and not miss a thing.

[folken001]

Square really needs to make a new GOOD Romancing Saga game.

[Renzatic Gear]

So why can't they just go ahead and make the main characters the interesting ones? Is Square trying to appeal to that hard-to-please semi retarded demographic, or are they just a bunch of mean bastards out to piss us all off for the hell of it?

[Mochan]

Dragon Quest moving to the DS is a surprise, or rather it moving to a handheld is a surprise; or maybe not. The only nextgen console w/ any install base is the 360, so Squore decided to go w/ the DS instead. That's a major snub to the 360 and proof it'll not work in Japan

This move hurts the 360 *and* the Wii more than the PS3. Hell, it's a huge insult to the Wii, more than to the 360. PSP is also majorly damaged.

As for DQ8, Renz you know I didn't like it. But... Vaan is even more obnoxious.

[T.Tashi]

Dragon Quest moving to the DS is a surprise, or rather it moving to a handheld is a surprise; or maybe not. The only nextgen console w/ any install base is the 360, so Squore decided to go w/ the DS instead. That's a major snub to the 360 and proof it'll not work in Japan

This move hurts the 360 *and* the Wii more than the PS3. Hell, it's a huge insult to the Wii, more than to the 360. PSP is also majorly damaged.

As for DQ8, Renz you know I didn't like it. But... Vaan is even more obnoxious.

A DQ game appearing on a foreign console would be sacrilege. There would be riots in the streets of Tokyo.

[trebor]

This move hurts the 360 *and* the Wii more than the PS3. Hell, it's a huge insult to the Wii, more than to the 360. PSP is also majorly damaged.

This is by far the most damaging to the PS3 and Sony as a whole. Frankly, I don't see how this has any effect on the Wii. In fact, this could be the beginning of Squenix's dynamic shift back to Nintendo - which can only help the Wii.

[folken001]

A DQ game appearing on a foreign console would be sacrilege. There would be riots in the streets of Tokyo.

like how it is in Battle Royale? That'd be awesome.

[Mochan]

It indeed looks like the shift of Squenix back to Nintendo, and yes I agree this *is* damaging to the PS3 as well. But this is mitigated by the same circumstance to the Wii. On the whole this is more damaging to Sony, as both PS3 and PSP were snubbed -- especially when you consider that the PSP is probably far more suited for DQ9 than the DS -- but I think this is a bigger slap to the Wii than it was to the PS3, considering the Wii is moving more units than the PS3 and is likely to move a lot more units than the PS3 next year. Not supporting the Wii and instead opting for the DS seems extremely strange although I can understand wanting to move to the platform with the biggest install base.

Yet overall, why isn't Square bringing this to the Wii? I don't understand this at all. I can't shrug off the feeling though that Squeenix is giving DQ9 the boot by relegating it to a handheld with extremely weak hardware capabilities. After DQ8 it seems that DQ9 will be looking far worse for the wear. Such a shame because DQ finally managed to look halfway decent with DQ8. Is Square pinching pennies on DQ9 and going for the money base? Is Square just returning to the Dragon Quest tradition of having turd for graphics? Or is there some lack of confidence in the Wii? We're all by now used to the PS3 not having developer confidence but the Wii? Did Nintendo's piss-poor Wii launch signal to Squeenix that they don't want any part of the Wii either?

[folken001]

It indeed looks like the shift of Squenix back to Nintendo, and yes I agree this *is* damaging to the PS3 as well. But this is mitigated by the same circumstance to the Wii. On the whole this is more damaging to Sony, as both PS3 and PSP were snubbed -- especially when you consider that the PSP is probably far more suited for DQ9 than the DS -- but I think this is a bigger slap to the Wii than it was to the PS3, considering the Wii is moving more units than the PS3 and is likely to move a lot more units than the PS3 next year. Not supporting the Wii and instead opting for the DS seems extremely strange although I can understand wanting to move to the platform with the biggest install base.

Yet overall, why isn't Square bringing this to the Wii? I don't understand this at all. I can't shrug off the feeling though that Squeenix is giving DQ9 the boot by relegating it to a handheld with extremely weak hardware capabilities. After DQ8 it seems that DQ9 will be looking far worse for the wear. Such a shame because DQ finally managed to look halfway decent with DQ8. Is Square pinching pennies on DQ9 and going for the money base? Is Square just returning to the Dragon Quest tradition of having turd for graphics? Or is there some lack of confidence in the Wii? We're all by now used to the PS3 not having developer confidence but the Wii? Did Nintendo's piss-poor Wii launch signal to Squeenix that they don't want any part of the Wii either?
Wii is getting a DQ title though.

[Mochan]

Ah in that case shoot me dead and sew my lips shut.

[folken001]

Ah in that case shoot me dead and sew my lips shut.

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20061212/dq25.jpg
http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20061212/dq26.jpg

DIIIIIEEEEE!!!!!!!

[Mochan]

Are those DS graphics by any chance?

[folken001]

Are those DS graphics by any chance?

nope...

http://www.watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20061212/dq32.jpg

It'd take a miracle for DS to put out this kind of graphics....

The concept is ok but who really wants to play a RPG like that? I don't. If I had to play FF12 like that, I would probably lose 20 pounds. That's a workout, not entertainment.

[Mochan]

Well if those were DS graphics I'd buy one right now, no questions asked. I expected they weren't, though. The DS can't push 3D like that....

[Renzatic Gear]

If it's tedious and boring then it's a workout. But if you're having a kick in the ass of a time flailing your arms about while playing...THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT!

[Mochan]

Yeah... and losing 20 pounds to boot? Sign me up!

[ilnadmy]

It's the complete opposite of any of the recent FF games (save 12, I hear it's pretty good), where you have paper thin characters that exist solely to serve the overly complicated borderline nonsensical plot.

Seriously. Anyone that actually played FFX for more than 10 minutes and said "wow, this Tidus character is pretty cool" has something seriously wrong with them.

*GASP*

.....


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*Crowd muttering angrily in the background*



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.....






BLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSPPPPPHHHHHHHEEEEEEMMMYYYYY YYYYYY!!!!!

KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLL THE TRAAAAAAAIITOOOOOORR!!!!!

I LOVED the FFX story. I LOVED Auron. I LOVED Waka. I LOVED Lulu. I LOVED Jecht. I LOVED Yuna. Hell, I even kinda liked Tidus! Kimari (or whatever that blue idiot's name is) I always left on the sidelines 'cuz he sucked. But that game was awesome! SIN! GAME OVER MAN, GAME OVER!

I oughta send you a virus for that kinda statement, you...you...

YOU SSSSSSSUCK!! Grrrr.......

:ihih:

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

DQ9 going to the DS is a lost for the PS3 because the DQ series has lately been affiliated with the PS consoles. Now it's not it's a lost to the PS3 anyway you look at it.

As for why Enix has always had a tradition of putting DQ on the most successful consoles the president said as much hisself. As for the technical capabilities DQ has never been about the Graphics and DQ9 looks remarkably like DQ8

[Gadfly2317]

The concept is ok but who really wants to play a RPG like that? I don't. If I had to play FF12 like that, I would probably lose 20 pounds. That's a workout, not entertainment.

Folken, this is just so much Sony fanboy propaganda. The pic shows a guy standing at a DEMO KIOSK. You also have to STAND at Ps3 kiosks. It's total hogwash to say that the Wii games are inherently a workout (except for workout designed party games like Wii sports.) I played Zelda for a six hour stretch the very first time I popped it in and was no more "worked out" than if I'd been playing on anything else.

Fact: The Wii is a very fun new way to play a game. Fact: It does not wear you out. Fact: It is way more fun to target and shoot something than it is to move around a targetting reticule with a thumbstick.

And Dragon Quest being on Wii and DS is BIG Sys Wars news for the Japanese front.

[folken001]

Folken, this is just so much Sony fanboy propaganda. The pic shows a guy standing at a DEMO KIOSK. You also have to STAND at Ps3 kiosks. It's total hogwash to say that the Wii games are inherently a workout (except for workout designed party games like Wii sports.) I played Zelda for a six hour stretch the very first time I popped it in and was no more "worked out" than if I'd been playing on anything else.

Fact: The Wii is a very fun new way to play a game. Fact: It does not wear you out. Fact: It is way more fun to target and shoot something than it is to move around a targetting reticule with a thumbstick.

And Dragon Quest being on Wii and DS is BIG Sys Wars news for the Japanese front.
It's no propaganda. I posted that picture to show Mochan that it is a Wii game. I don't know what you are talking about.

Your facts are more like personal opinions. My friend and I tried out Red Steel last night. After one hour of playing, he couldn't keep his hand above the screen. We both work out, by the way. So he is not weak. I am not saying it's not fun. I love to play Wii sports. But I do have concerns.

Btw, red steel is a horrible game. I was shocked when I saw it in person. The framerate is horrible and it looks worse than a Gamecube game. I wonder what happened to the game we saw at E3. Red STeel is definitely getting returned today.

[folken001]

Well if those were DS graphics I'd buy one right now, no questions asked. I expected they weren't, though. The DS can't push 3D like that....
Unfortunately, I think this game might not be that much fun after all. As I read more into it, it seems this game is on a rail. It means, it's like playing House of the Dead. You have to go when the game takes you. It does look good though.

[folken001]

Yeah... and losing 20 pounds to boot? Sign me up!
Well, you do know that if you play Wii while all sweaty and oily, it greatly shortens the life spin of your TV?

[Gadfly2317]

It's no propaganda. I posted that picture to show Mochan that it is a Wii game. I don't know what you are talking about. Clearly. What I was referring to is not that the existence of the game is propaganda, but that it is neceessary to stand up and get fatigued from playing a game.

I hold the Wii controller the same way I hold all controllers, not in the air, but with my wrists resting on a sofa pillow on my lap. All the sword fighting and shooting in Zelda has not proven to be tiring, though I agree, it's a personal opinion in the sense that there are probably people like your friend who hasn't figured out how to use the Wii controller yet, or who over-gesture when they don't have to.

I can't comment on Red-Steel. Haven't played it. I do hope for some serious sword fighting games eventually, and I don't mind if I get tired in an hour. It seems ok to have games that aren't designed for epic play sessions. It's called variety.

[folken001]

Clearly. What I was referring to is not that the existence of the game is propaganda, but that it is neceessary to stand up and get fatigued from playing a game.

I hold the Wii controller the same way I hold all controllers, not in the air, but with my wrists resting on a sofa pillow on my lap. All the sword fighting and shooting in Zelda has not proven to be tiring, though I agree, it's a personal opinion in the sense that there are probably people like your friend who hasn't figured out how to use the Wii controller yet, or who over-gesture when they don't have to.

I can't comment on Red-Steel. Haven't played it. I do hope for some serious sword fighting games eventually, and I don't mind if I get tired in an hour. It seems ok to have games that aren't designed for epic play sessions. It's called variety.
My friend and I played standing up, maybe that's why. However, it seems to defeat the purpose having a wiimote and nunchuck if you just play thme like you would with a regular controller.

Anyway, he got Super Swing Golf today. He said the game looks horrible compare to its PC counterpart but it's still fun to play. I guess I will find out later.

[Gadfly2317]

My friend and I played standing up, maybe that's why. However, it seems to defeat the purpose having a wiimote and nunchuck if you just play thme like you would with a regular controller. Well. . . I mean, I'm not saying play it just like a regular controller. In Zelda for instance, you still get the fun of targeting and sword play and fishing, you just don't HAVE to stand up or gesture wildly. It's still a blast.




Anyway, he got Super Swing Golf today. He said the game looks horrible compare to its PC counterpart but it's still fun to play. I guess I will find out later.
I was gonna pick that up but the stores didn't have it in yet. I've looked at some screenshots compared to PC, and they didn't really look different. I'm guessing though that the PC looks better due to resolution. This game looks a lot like Hot Shots golf. I've only seen one review on this game for the Wii, and it was an import review, but it sounded very promising.

[Gamer88]

ilnadmy
BLLLLLLLAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSPPPPPHHHHHHHEEEEEEMMMYYYYY YYYYYY!!!!!

KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLL THE TRAAAAAAAIITOOOOOORR!!!!!

I LOVED the FFX story. I LOVED Auron. I LOVED Waka. I LOVED Lulu. I LOVED Jecht. I LOVED Yuna. Hell, I even kinda liked Tidus! Kimari (or whatever that blue idiot's name is) I always left on the sidelines 'cuz he sucked. But that game was awesome! SIN! GAME OVER MAN, GAME OVER!

I oughta send you a virus for that kinda statement, you...you...

YOU SSSSSSSUCK!! Grrrr.......

My older sister recently got a PS2 from her friend for her birthday. Well, they asked me if I had any ps2 games they could try, so I gave her FFX. Of course, she put the game in immediatly and loaded it up. Without saying anything, as soon as Tidus showed on the screen both my younger sister and older sister started laughing (at what he was wearing). It only got worse, when Tidus spoke they literally laughed hysterically....haha, needless to say, im the only one in the family that ever beat that game...

[slade]

The other big popular RPG in Japan, Final Fantasy, is still exclusive to PS3 last I checked. DQ has always gone to the most popular platform so it going to the DS is hardly a surprise. We probably weren't going to see a main PS3 DQ title until Sony actually began to mass produce those suckers and got the Japanese to buy them.

[Cuddly Knife]

I also thought FFX was one of the better ones. 8 is my fave, then X, then 3.

[Gamer88]

I thought FFX was an alright game...

I really have to have a world map in my rpgs (save kotor)...well...one you can freely roam. It makes it more immersive in my opinion.(FFX just seemed real linear, well, they are all, but at least some delusion of openess is good)


That and im a prick that likes a strong, respectable main character. I like the guy I play as to be the head honco. Tidus..well...obviously doesn't fit that.

and Auron sucks...


im done.

[ilnadmy]

What the hell is up with people dissing my favorite games and favorite characters today? AURON ROCKS!!

Solid Snake is obviously the coolest video game character EVAR, but Auron is a close second.

[Cuddly Knife]

I think the coolest title should go to Dante. No one can take an impalement like him.

Solid has nothing on Naked Snake, or Jack.

[ilnadmy]

Jack? JACK??!

If I didn't know you were kidding I would...well I can't really do anything, but STILL!!!

Nah, I don't think Dante is the coolest character. I mean he's cool, but Snake takes down f***ing walking nuclear-capable battle tanks, and he's just a regular guy. Dante is a goddamn half-demon and he has trouble taking down other demons. Holy hell, if Snake was HALF-DEMON...well the universe would pretty much explode since it can't handle all that awesomeness.

[Mochan]

Coolest character is Kurtis from Disgaea. His theme song alone murders Dante and Snake in one hissatsu waza.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

This may sound racist but it's not. But whenever the Japanese attempt a cool character I run the other way. Seriously the japnese are the king of cheese. Dante has got to be the corniest thing going in gaming. The coolest character in gaming is CJ from San andreas (and the fact that I'm black whose name is CJ has almost nothing to do with that).

[ilnadmy]

Are you kidding? The Japanese have created some of the coolest and most memorable videogame characters. With all due respect, CJ from San Andreas doesn't have any distinguishing characteristics to make him stand out from the army of videogame heroes. Characters like Dante, Snake, Auron, Cloud, Sephiroth, Link, Mario, and Sonic are instantly recognizable, and in a very good way.

What American videogame characters have the same kind of magnetism? The only one I can think of is Lara Croft.

[Cuddly Knife]

Master Chief

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Are you kidding? The Japanese have created some of the coolest and most memorable videogame characters. With all due respect, CJ from San Andreas doesn't have any distinguishing characteristics to make him stand out from the army of videogame heroes. Characters like Dante, Snake, Auron, Cloud, Sephiroth, Link, Mario, and Sonic are instantly recognizable, and in a very good way.

What American videogame characters have the same kind of magnetism? The only one I can think of is Lara Croft.

I didn't say the Japanese didn't create good characters or memorable ones. I just don't think they are cool. It's like the geeky kid trying hard to emulate what's cool. When I was in the Navy I spent time in Osaka and Okinawa this was around the time Wu-tang was really big. And a lot of Japanese kids tried to emulate them but damn I laughed my ass off it just came off as so corny. It seems to run through the culture whenever they try to imitate cool or what they believe what westerners perceive as cool. I fully understand they may see eastern culture the same way. One thing for sure after being over there our culture has a lot more influence there than does there culture have here.

And it's not just videogame it's funny just about all those characters you named seem game or highly femine. I'm chalking this up to cultural differences here. What's funny though China and Honk Kong cinema have loads of cool characters that don't have that femine quality that Japanese characters do. They tend to have stronger women characters as well who aren't overly sexualized either.

As for as good American characters you won't find as much because by and large most American games don't focus on character. Lately especially they more or less try and put you into the world and draw the player in. Instead of a over developed character. This was the whole philosphy around the original Half-life.

But to least some American videogame characters that I think stand out even though they aren't as popular as the Japanese ones.

Abe from the Oddworld games.

The Stranger from strangers wrath. His confliction was what made him and his story gave him more character than any other videogame character I can think of. You have to play the game and really pay attention to the story to know what I'm talking about.

Raz from Psychonauts.

Tommy from Vice City.

Riddick from Chronicles from Riddick. Vindiesel was better in the game than in the movie.


That's just off the top of my head. The Japanese characters do stand out more but like I said above they focus on that a lot more.

[ilnadmy]

Master Chief
Oh PUHHH-LEEEZ. That guy has as much personality as a rock. I will give you that he looks good and thus stands out, but that's about it.

@DT: Dante, Snake, and Auron are feminine? And Sonic? Fine, I'll give you that many Japanese characters are feminine, but those aren't the cool ones.

And that's another thing: American games AREN'T character focused, which to me is not a good thing. Some of the best games have a strong, compelling main character.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

ilnadmy did you use to post here as MGSfan?

[DBS]

Kate Archer was a cool character.

[ilnadmy]

ilnadmy did you use to post here as MGSfan?
Heh no. I've always been ilnadmy.

And yeah, Cate Archer was an awesome character. Can't believe I forgot her. :blush2: She's in my favorite PC game!

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Yo what was the name of that game with Kate Archer. It was a FPS on the PC right? God I can't think of the name of that game.

Sam Fisher
Alex
Ratchet
Clank
Jak
Daxter
Crash Bandicoot
The Arbiter (Halo 2)
Max Payne
Gabe Logan
Duke Nukem
Serious Sam
HK57

I can keep going but that's not the point. How many great games where there was no main character the player created him.

Any Bioware RPG
all the Elder Scrolls
Diablo
Any ID FPS
Any Epic FPS (GOW is not a FPS)
Any Medal of Honor
Any Call of Duty
Any of the numerous sports game that do so well over here.
Damn near any GTA styled open world game. Where it's not about the character but the gameplay. Remember the Mercenaries commericals it was all about blowing Sh!t up not about Solid Snake finally discovering who the Patriots are and his long awaited confrontation against his father big boss in MGS4 (you know I"m making this up right?)

[Cuddly Knife]

The creators of Beyond Good and Evil had a cool character in Jade, but they're Canadien. Do they count on the US side, or are there style more Asian?

[Renzatic Gear]

The guys that did Beyond Good and Evil are French, which means they kinda have their own thing going on.

[Cuddly Knife]

Right, French. Didn't the Frenchies also do Indigo Prophecy?

[Superior Beatslayer]

The creators of Beyond Good and Evil had a cool character in Jade, but they're Canadien. Do they count on the US side, or are there style more Asian?

what? we aint no asian minded mother****ers. if anything we're like a mix between US and amsterdamians.:thumbsup:

[Gadfly2317]

I don't think there is any such thing as a "cool" videogame character. Especially the ultra-cliche CJ from San Andreas.

But if I were forced to make a nomination, it would be King of All Cosmos. Purple tights and blatant child abuse. Let's see an American game character pull that off.

[ilnadmy]

Are you kidding? You wouldn't want Hillary Clinton's ass all over the developers now would you?

[NEO-360]

Still though, DS is so overrated.

Oh..thats why the DS is STILL kicking the holy hell out of the PSP. I see now.:D

The PSP is the real overrated piece of bantha fodder.:aureola:

[Mochan]

About the character-driven thing, definitely I prefer games where there is a good main character. I'm not saying you can't have a good/great game without strong characters, but I definitely prefer having a character-driven game. If I had to choose between the same game but one version had no character presence while the other was strongly character-driven, I'll take the character driven one anyday.

I doubt ilnadmy is saying he hates games that aren't character driven; if that were true he wouldn't be gaming on a PC (and neither would I). What he said is true: American games tend not to be strongly character-driven. Japanese games are the exact opposite and almost always base the entire game experience on some good characters. You guys want cool Japanese characters? You'll want to start with Shishio Guy, whom you will only see in Gaogaigar and Super Robot Wars. He is a True Hero.

The game can be non-character-driven and still be good, though in my mind most games will become infinitely better if they are properly character-driven.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

About the character-driven thing, definitely I prefer games where there is a good main character. I'm not saying you can't have a good/great game without strong characters, but I definitely prefer having a character-driven game. If I had to choose between the same game but one version had no character presence while the other was strongly character-driven, I'll take the character driven one anyday.

I doubt ilnadmy is saying he hates games that aren't character driven; if that were true he wouldn't be gaming on a PC (and neither would I). What he said is true: American games tend not to be strongly character-driven. Japanese games are the exact opposite and almost always base the entire game experience on some good characters. You guys want cool Japanese characters? You'll want to start with Shishio Guy, whom you will only see in Gaogaigar and Super Robot Wars. He is a True Hero.

The game can be non-character-driven and still be good, though in my mind most games will become infinitely better if they are properly character-driven.

Character Driven games aren't the problem it's the way the Japanese present them. I firmly believe that if you are playing a game the focus should be on the gameplay. Games like Metal Gear Final Fanatasy are poorly presented the story encroahes on the pacing of the gameplay. And I think it takes away from the experience. Take a game like Chronicles of Riddick or Psychonaughts both of these games had strong characters and good character development but it never came at a cost t gameplay. Prince of Persia 1&3 are probably the best examples of this.

[folken001]

Oh PUHHH-LEEEZ. That guy has as much personality as a rock. I will give you that he looks good and thus stands out, but that's about it.


LOL. I am sorry but this is so true.

He doesn't even look good in my opinion. He looks like a space janitor to me.

[Mochan]

I firmly believe that if you are playing a game the focus should be on the gameplay. Games like Metal Gear Final Fanatasy are poorly presented the story encroahes on the pacing of the gameplay. And I think it takes away from the experience.


For me I have a very different take on it. For me the most important thing when playing a game isn't necessarily the gameplay, it's the experience that counts. That's why you game devs have been trying to make games that are "interactive movies" and stuff like that, because the gameplay isn't necessarily what it's about, it can be other stuff too.

I will agree that there are games that focus on a poorly presented story, and this encroaches on the experience, but I would never go so far as to say that the gameplay is the only important aspect to the exclusion of other things that contribute to the overall experience, like story, characters, etc.

There were games that had poor story presentation, that tried too hard to be an interactive movie, first on my list of infamy for this is that crap Wing Commander 3, which is not a Japanese game but rather a PC game from Origin, and man those ages where PC game devs were abusing CD-ROM in order to put movies in their games was such a blemish on the history of gaming I don't even want to go back there. In a nutshell you can have a great experience with just gameplay and minimal story, or vice versa, it's really just dependent on how good the result is. What's a great game with great gameplay but minimal story? Call of Duty I guess could be classfied for this, or many of those racing games. But you can also hav ea great game with great story/characters but minimal gameplay. I would like to point out games like Monkey Island or perhaps that cult popular thing Indigo Prophecy/Fahrenheit (haven't played it myself but I am assuming it fits the point I am driving at here).

But the best games for me are the ones that get both story and gameplay right. And for me one of those games was Metal Gear Solid 1.

Prince of Persia 1 I cannot agree that that had good characters and character development, what the hell? That thing was just some guy in trousers waving his sword around and jumping up and down. This was a gameplay-driven game and had zero character development.


Okay I wanted to talk about some of the older posts too!
***

Tidus, BLEH! Hate him.

FFX was okay, the characters weren't great for me but they were alright. Except for Tidus. And Wakka. Oh and Yuna just whined way too much. But Kimari was the man. He's awesome. Though I barely used him. But he's awesome.

I've never been a big Final Fantasy fan, my favorite Final Fantasy was FF Tactics, the least FF-like of all Final Fantasies. My loyalties in the JRPG world lie elsewhere, in particular with Suikoden.

But having characters like FFX had is still better for me than having bland boring pixels like you see in Baldur's Gate, NWN or any other Bioware game. KOTOR tried to be more character-driven (a step up from Baldur's Gate and BG2) but I still did not get into it. At this point it is probably just a matter of sensibilities -- I guess I am just more partial to Japanese anime than to whatever Canadian BS Bioware tries to run in its RPGs -- but I still feel that on the Western end there is less propensity to put forth a strong character-driven game compared to the Japanese front, in general.


This may sound racist but it's not. But whenever the Japanese attempt a cool character I run the other way. Seriously the japnese are the king of cheese.

At this point it's just a matter of sensibilities. It's not racist, it's just that that culture is not for you. But frankly your sensibilties need realigning, Hah!

As for The Master Chief, well he's a cut above Mario and Luigi no questions asked but he isn't anywhere close to the other heavy hitter Japanese characters. The Master Chief is BORING. He's just a guy in a green metal suit. He doesn't even look as awe-inspiring as some Tokusatsu Heroes like Shaider (http://gyaban.tokusatsu.org/shaider/shider1.jpg) or Kamen Rider (http://www.japanesetoylink.com/Time-House/Sci-Fi/images/THM-KR029img2.jpg), despite all that wax gloss on his armor.

One thing for sure after being over there our culture has a lot more influence there than does there culture have here.

Well duh, America rules the world and its primary export is its culture.



And it's not just videogame it's funny just about all those characters you named seem game or highly femine. I'm chalking this up to cultural differences here. What's funny though China and Honk Kong cinema have loads of cool characters that don't have that femine quality that Japanese characters do. They tend to have stronger women characters as well who aren't overly sexualized either.

Of course they do. Did you ever see Meteor Garden's F4? Chinese are into that feminine thing too. And what's this about stronger women characters? Japan is like the #1 nation for having strong women characters. Wonder Woman looks like a meek kitty compared to the likes of Noriko Takaya, heck Super Girl is a wuss compared to Nono from Top 2. Chinese film has strong women characters like the ones you see Zhang Ziyi play all the time these days (damn when did she get so popular?) but they're not really stronger than the "strong women" you see in Japanese manga. As for the over-sexualization, that just depends on the series, some have more female porn-type fixation than others, it's all equal.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

have been trying to make games that are "interactive movies" and stuff like that, because the gameFor me I have a very different take on it. For me the most important thing when playing a game isn't necessarily the gameplay, it's the experience that counts. That's why you game devs play isn't necessarily what it's about, it can be other stuff too.

I will agree that there are games that focus on a poorly presented story, and this encroaches on the experience, but I would never go so far as to say that the gameplay is the only important aspect to the exclusion of other things that contribute to the overall experience, like story, characters, etc.

There were games that had poor story presentation, that tried too hard to be an interactive movie, first on my list of infamy for this is that crap Wing Commander 3, which is not a Japanese game but rather a PC game from Origin, and man those ages where PC game devs were abusing CD-ROM in order to put movies in their games was such a blemish on the history of gaming I don't even want to go back there. In a nutshell you can have a great experience with just gameplay and minimal story, or vice versa, it's really just dependent on how good the result is. What's a great game with great gameplay but minimal story? Call of Duty I guess could be classfied for this, or many of those racing games. But you can also hav ea great game with great story/characters but minimal gameplay. I would like to point out games like Monkey Island or perhaps that cult popular thing Indigo Prophecy/Fahrenheit (haven't played it myself but I am assuming it fits the point I am driving at here).

But the best games for me are the ones that get both story and gameplay right. And for me one of those games was Metal Gear Solid 1.

Prince of Persia 1 I cannot agree that that had good characters and character development, what the hell? That thing was just some guy in trousers waving his sword around and jumping up and down. This was a gameplay-driven game and had zero character development.

Oh god the Sega CD get's a lot of grief for the corny FMV but the PC was way worse I though. C&C 3 is actually bringing this back. Michael Ironside is returning and everything. I wonder if that famous EA presntation will make it different this time. As for presntation vs gameplay it's a preference. But I will make this last comment. Some of the greatest games of all time have absolutely 0 story presntation (tetris) or very minmal story at best Any Nintendo game (except for apparently Twilight Princess). But how many really great games have bad gameplay 0.


.

But having characters like FFX had is still better for me than having bland boring pixels like you see in Baldur's Gate, NWN or any other Bioware game. KOTOR tried to be more character-driven (a step up from Baldur's Gate and BG2) but I still did not get into it. At this point it is probably just a matter of sensibilities -- I guess I am just more partial to Japanese anime than to whatever Canadian BS Bioware tries to run in its RPGs -- but I still feel that on the Western end there is less propensity to put forth a strong character-driven game compared to the Japanese front, in general.

Sometimes it's not about the protaganist it's about how the world responds to you. And your actions this makes a game way more in depth than a strictly linear story and it usually enhances the gameplay as well.


[QUOTE=Mochan]
At this point it's just a matter of sensibilities. It's not racist, it's just that that culture is not for you. But frankly your sensibilties need realigning, Hah!

As for The Master Chief, well he's a cut above Mario and Luigi no questions asked but he isn't anywhere close to the other heavy hitter Japanese characters. The Master Chief is BORING. He's just a guy in a green metal suit. He doesn't even look as awe-inspiring as some Tokusatsu Heroes like Shaider (http://gyaban.tokusatsu.org/shaider/shider1.jpg) or Kamen Rider (http://www.japanesetoylink.com/Time-House/Sci-Fi/images/THM-KR029img2.jpg), despite all that wax gloss on his armor.

I honestly don't think the Chief is meant to be a great character (I have to disagree the armor design looks good) Halo seems to me to take the Half life approach you are the Master Chief and Bungie want's to put ou in there universe.



Well duh, America rules the world and its primary export is its culture.




Of course they do. Did you ever see Meteor Garden's F4? Chinese are into that feminine thing too. And what's this about stronger women characters? Japan is like the #1 nation for having strong women characters. Wonder Woman looks like a meek kitty compared to the likes of Noriko Takaya, heck Super Girl is a wuss compared to Nono from Top 2. Chinese film has strong women characters like the ones you see Zhang Ziyi play all the time these days (damn when did she get so popular?) but they're not really stronger than the "strong women" you see in Japanese manga. As for the over-sexualization, that just depends on the series, some have more female porn-type fixation than others, it's all equal.

Don't watch much anime but from what I've seen even the supposedly strong characters are over size breasted sexual fantasies. And they seem to fit into the bad girl dominatrix mold or the sweet innocent mode. But this is a gross generalization I just don't go for it.

[ilnadmy]

Man, Mochan, you dissed all my favorite games! LOL. Wing Commander 3 is a game I really enjoyed (although it is also one of the first games I actually remember playing, so that's probably a reason). That game had story and gameplay and I loved it.

I also loved KOTOR. The second time I played through that game I played it for 3 days straight and by the time I finished it on the Dark Side I actually literally became physically sick from staring at the computer screen for so long.

I'm one of those people that loves a good story. Hell, if you gave me a game where it's just one long cutscene and I just get to move the camera around I'd still love it as long as the story was good. That's why I love MGS and FF. It doesn't hurt that the gameplay in those games are great. The long-ass cutscenes are just an added bonus in my view (plus you can move the camera around in MGS :D). Those cutscenes give the game a background and atmosphere that actually puts you into the game's world.

When I played FFX, I actually felt in the world because I knew where I was going and WHY I was going there. Same in MGS. I'm never doing anything simply because it's a mission; I'm doing a mission because it's leading to the goal that Snake is working towards.

Half-Life 2 is a game I stopped playing because of a lack of direction. I played half the game, always expecting to come across some more plot points to tell me why I'm doing what I'm doing. Eventually I got so sick and tired and just turned the damn thing off and uninstalled it.

And it's true what Mochan said, I don't only play character-driven games. After all I love games like Company of Heroes and Call of Duty 2 which are not character driven (just a bunch of replaceable characters). But my favorite games are all character-driven with generous cutscenes and story sequences: Metal Gear Solid 1/2/3, Final Fantasy X, No One Lives Forever 1, God of War.

And regarding American characters: EFFIN' KRATOS!! That guy is just pure bad-ass. But there is a compelling backstory to his character, which I appreciate.

So in conclusion: Story and cutscenes are good. Bland characters are bad. No plot is bad.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

And it's true what Mochan said, I don't only play character-driven games. After all I love games like Company of Heroes and Call of Duty 2 which are not character driven (just a bunch of replaceable characters). But my favorite games are all character-driven with generous cutscenes and story sequences: Metal Gear Solid 1/2/3, Final Fantasy X, No One Lives Forever 1, God of War.

And regarding American characters: EFFIN' KRATOS!! That guy is just pure bad-ass. But there is a compelling backstory to his character, which I appreciate.



No one lives forever Damn that's the game!!!!!! I've been trying to think of this game for a while now. Everybody here ignored me when I was asking what it was.

How I forgot Kratos I don't know. Probably thee best Character created last gen and the story and gameplay ration was near perferct in his game. Also the pure viciousness of the gameplay bought his character across. Same with the Prince of Persia his ongoing conversation with his girl and just the gameplay expressed the character.

MSS2 did this as well with Raiden specifically when he would slip and fall or had to run around naked. Unfortunately it made him look like a punkass and it wasn't that fun to play. But I think that was more or less to make snake looking even harder.

[Mochan]

Sometimes it's not about the protaganist it's about how the world responds to you. And your actions this makes a game way more in depth than a strictly linear story and it usually enhances the gameplay as well.

Oh this is definitely a gameplay enhancing thing, and this is definitely the hallmark of a great RPG. Bioware though is not known for making this kind of game, Bioware is very good at making many linear FedEx quests strung together on a non-linear map. The games that really deserved this praise are Fallout and Arcanum. Baldur's Gate 2 and Neverwinter Nights were a bit of an embarassment in comparison.

Halo does indeed take the Half Life approach, and viola no wonder I dislike both games. :) I disliked Half Life 2 as well for the seeming lack of direction. In a supposedly "story-oriented" game (yeah right) I felt like I was just crawling through sewers and doing stupid physics puzzles for no real reason 90% of the time.

As for great games with no gameplay, well like ilnadmy says he'd be happy with a game with a great story and you just moved the camera around. Well how about "great" games that had no story or gameplay? I mean look at crap like Myst/Riven, well that's a bonafied "truly great" game you know. Adventure games have little or no gameplay and some are considered truly great, like the King's Quest games (though I disagree).


Wing Commander 3 wasn't *that* bad as I make it out, but it could have been way better, because well Wing Commander 1 was way better even if it didn't have all that CD-Rom glitz. And frankly the animatronic puppets used for the Kirathi were like B-Movie rejects. Man what an embarassment but I guess Chris Roberts felt spiffy about himself making that game.

And finally, I thought Tetris was one of the worst games ever made. Hell at least go for Dr. Mario, much better game.