123 reasons that PS3 and Sony will DIE [Archive]

Glockstar

11-30-2006, 03:08 PM

The PS3 = the next Dreamcast

Namco: 500,000 PS3 games required for profit
Titles for Sony's next-gen console have to shift half a million copies before developers start to make money, says Takeo Takasu.
By Emma Boyes, GameSpot UK ... Posted Nov 30, 2006 9:40 am PT

The software available for any console is crucial to its success. According to a report on the Bloomberg news service, developers may be thinking carefully about making games for the PlayStation 3 because of the number of sales required to put the projects in the black. Namco Bandai Holdings Inc. president Takeo Takasu has said in an interview that PS3 games must be a mass-market success. Games for the next-generation console cost an average of $8.6 million to create, according to Takasu, and need to sell 500,000 units before the developer can turn a profit.

At the moment, there are shortages in the number of PS3s in circulation, so these targets may be initially hard to reach, Bloomberg noted. Namco Bandai is Japan's second-biggest game developer, so the picture Takasu paints for smaller studios making non-mass-market games is less than bright.

The PS3 launched in Japan on November 11 and in the US on November 17 and will go on sale in Europe sometime in March 2007. Bloomberg also recently reported that the number of consoles available for the US launch was "even lower than expected."

Namco Bandai was founded when Japanese companies Namco and Bandai joined forces in 2005. The companies recently consolidated their partnership and talked of competing more aggressively in the European Union. Namco Bandai had two launch titles for the PS3 in Japan and the US--Ridge Racer 7 and Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire. The company also has four titles being released for the Nintendo Wii's Japanese launch on December 2.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6162509.html

Namco Sets PS3 Target
Publisher must sell 500,000 games to see profit.
by Hilary Goldstein

November 30, 2006 - Bloomberg is reporting that Namco Bandai is in danger of losing money on its PS3 titles. Claiming that development costs for Namco Bandai PS3 games average 1 billion yen (US$8.6 million) to develop, President Takeo Takasu said must sell at least 500,000 copies of each of its PS3 titles worldwide in order to see a profit.

At best, Sony shipped 400,000 consoles to the U.S. and roughly 90,000 units to Japan. Even at a 1:1 ratio, Namco won't reach it's target with the initial launch. However, with a Sony promise to ship at least one million PlayStation 3's by year's end, it's possible that Ridge Racer 7 and Mobile Suit Gundam: Crossfire could eventually reach Namco's sales target.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/748/748285p1.html

Gadfly2317

11-30-2006, 04:44 PM

I think that dovetails nicely with the post I made last week about Namco/Bandai having 30 Wii titles in development, but only 9 split between Ps3 and 360.

folken001

11-30-2006, 11:03 PM

I think that dovetails nicely with the post I made last week about Namco/Bandai having 30 Wii titles in development, but only 9 split between Ps3 and 360.
It's probably because it's eaiser and cheaper to make games for wii.

This news is pretty old though and I don't see the point. Is glock saying that PS3 won't sell more than 500k units? If he is, then he's a moron.

NEO-360

12-01-2006, 05:39 AM

It's probably because it's eaiser and cheaper to make games for wii.

This news is pretty old though and I don't see the point. Is glock saying that PS3 won't sell more than 500k units? If he is, then he's a moron.

The point Capt.Sony? The point is that this should be a concern to current and future PS3 owners. Having hardware thats easily to develop for makes life easier. When you have something thats complicated and basically new things get hairy.

So to sum it all up it may be over a year or more until alot of game developers are able to hone down how to truly use the cell prosessor of the PS3 and everything else under the hood of it. Not to mention the software for the PS3 thus far hasnt really been selling like bottled water was back when Y2K was running wild back in 1999.

But you figure that Sony has the money they can wait it out and eventually things will turn around right? Right. Did anyone actually think a $600 dollar console was going to have immediate success? I didnt. But since you're part of Milk Inc. I guess you guys thought differently.:23:

The Milk Drinkers Band (l to r) Folken 001,ilnadmy,Slade,& PC headbanger Mochan. Singing their hit single"The PS3 is a PC not a game console."

Gadfly2317

12-01-2006, 06:30 AM

It's probably because it's eaiser and cheaper to make games for wii.

This news is pretty old though and I don't see the point. Is glock saying that PS3 won't sell more than 500k units? If he is, then he's a moron.

He wasn't talking about SYSTEM units, the article was saying that each software title will need to sell about 500,000 copies to turn a profit, based on the cost of developing a title for Ps3. This will make developers more cautious in what they choose to create for Ps3, and will also cause there to be less risky titles.

It would be ironic if 360 were the home to the Okamis and Katamari's of next gen. Hell, the 360 is already getting Culdcept online. But I still tend to think most budget/experimental software will migrate to the Wii. . . a lot of those types of titles are really crappy, but its also where the real gems can be found.

Of course, big budget mainstream titles turn out crappy all the time too. A lot of developers are sailing through dangerous seas this gen, and stand to get sunk if they aren't careful.

Sony itself faces some extreme challenges here. The hardware itself is going to bleed red-ink, and they've created a situation where they could bleed red-ink in software development, too. What if God of War 3 sells like crap? And can Sony afford to do more low-selling artsy masterpieces like Ico and Collosus which don't sell that well?

In the long run, Ps3 might not even sell that well. In addition to being $600, the extended warranty (VERY necessary purchase) adds another $109.00 to the cost. After the launch frenzy is over, we'll see for sure, but I'm guessing there will be a lot of Ps3's sitting on the shelves.

You already hear people by the droves in game stores and other places saying "Ah, I'd rather have a Wii than a Ps3 anyway, because its a new way of playing games." I think that's horsecrap. If the two systems were the same price, a lot more people wouldn't be thinking that way. But when somethings out of your price range, you convince yourself that what you can afford is really the better choice anyway.

folken001

12-01-2006, 10:19 AM

He wasn't talking about SYSTEM units, the article was saying that each software title will need to sell about 500,000 copies to turn a profit, based on the cost of developing a title for Ps3. This will make developers more cautious in what they choose to create for Ps3, and will also cause there to be less risky titles.

It would be ironic if 360 were the home to the Okamis and Katamari's of next gen. Hell, the 360 is already getting Culdcept online. But I still tend to think most budget/experimental software will migrate to the Wii. . . a lot of those types of titles are really crappy, but its also where the real gems can be found.

Of course, big budget mainstream titles turn out crappy all the time too. A lot of developers are sailing through dangerous seas this gen, and stand to get sunk if they aren't careful.

Sony itself faces some extreme challenges here. The hardware itself is going to bleed red-ink, and they've created a situation where they could bleed red-ink in software development, too. What if God of War 3 sells like crap? And can Sony afford to do more low-selling artsy masterpieces like Ico and Collosus which don't sell that well?

In the long run, Ps3 might not even sell that well. In addition to being $600, the extended warranty (VERY necessary purchase) adds another $109.00 to the cost. After the launch frenzy is over, we'll see for sure, but I'm guessing there will be a lot of Ps3's sitting on the shelves.

You already hear people by the droves in game stores and other places saying "Ah, I'd rather have a Wii than a Ps3 anyway, because its a new way of playing games." I think that's horsecrap. If the two systems were the same price, a lot more people wouldn't be thinking that way. But when somethings out of your price range, you convince yourself that what you can afford is really the better choice anyway.
I know. But, with enough units out there, eventually 500k copies will be sold, no? Or anyone here has doubt that PS3 will fail to sell more than 10 million units? That was my point.

If you read consumer's report, it is recommended against buying extended warranty on any purchases. Statistically, it is useless most of the time. Your machine will most likely not break until the first warranty expires.

As for people preferring Wii over PS3 and what not, I don't know how much of that is true. What I know is true though is that I've been looking for PS3 for the past few weeks at various locations and I haven't been able to find ANY. Wii will do better in the beginning. However the reality is that it is always easier to make better looking games than more innovative games. Wii will not do in the long run against either PS3 or Xbox360. Can Nintendo be confident and say we will be able to make enough innovative games to keep gamers with Wii through this generation? I seriously doubt it.

Glockstar

12-01-2006, 10:49 AM

This news is pretty old though and I don't see the point. ...

ROFLMAO! What an assclown! The news came out that day! Check the date, you dyslexic dipstick.

How many times does folken say that: "this is old news"? And notice that he always says it when it's bad news for Sony. Although... I guess that's understandable, as it seems like there's a ton of bad news for Sony almost everyday...

folken001

12-01-2006, 11:26 AM

ROFLMAO! What an assclown! The news came out that day! Check the date, you dyslexic dipstick.

How many times does folken say that: "this is old news"? And notice that he always says it when it's bad news for Sony. Although... I guess that's understandable, as it seems like there's a ton of bad news for Sony almost everyday...
Yea how many times have I said that? Once in the past 2 weeks? I read about this somewhere else already. It took you a while to post while some other forums already had it.

After all these garbage, you still don't have a point.

What you can't stand the most is that, while you believe Xbox360 is the superior platform, you know in your heart that PS3 will still kick its ass. It's trying to fight the inevitable. I know how frustrating that can be, glock. I know.

Glockstar

12-01-2006, 11:45 AM

I think that dovetails nicely with the post I made last week about Namco/Bandai having 30 Wii titles in development, but only 9 split between Ps3 and 360.

I believe those numbers, 30 and 9, include games that are already out, yes? I believe that when that was reported the PS3 and Wii were not out yet.

Anywho, in looking at the upcoming release schedule for the PS3 and 360 I see:
- 2 games in development for the PS3 (Tekken 6 and SoulCalibur IV)
- 4 games in development for the 360 (Mobile Ops: The One Year War; Culdcept Saga; Eternal Sonata; and Zegapain XOR)

Now would you y'all stop a second and look at those titles... Mobile Ops and Zegapain are based on anime; Culdcept Saga is a cult smash in Japan; and Eternal Sonata is a JRPG. These are the games that B/N is doing for the 360! Not the PS3, the 360!

Getting back to the number games...

500,000 really isn't that big of a number, for worldwide sales. But still, you're going to need about 10 million units in homes before you have a reasonable shot at attaining those kinds of sales. I'm sure that the PS3 will get to 10 million - eventually * - - but how long will that take?!

And Sony can spout off numbers all day long - saying that they're going to ship 6 million units by such and such time, blah blah blah - everybody knows they're for $#!%.

A related article:

EA: 500k-800k PS3s in US in '06
Electronic Arts CEO Larry Probst says Sony shipped only 200,000 PS3s for US launch, expects up to 800,000 in stores this year.
By Tim Surette, GameSpot ... Posted Nov 30, 2006 11:25 am PT

While empty-handed Sony fans scour shops for the hard-to-find PlayStation 3, industry figureheads are trying to explain exactly why they are so scarce. Speaking at the Reuters Media Summit in New York, Electronic Arts CEO Larry Probst gave his thoughts on the supply of Sony's PlayStation 3, noting launch shortages and predicting how many PS3s would be available in the near future.

Probst expects Sony to ship 500,000 to 800,000 PS3s in North America by the end of the year, according to Reuters. That figure is below Sony's projection of 1 million to 1.2 million PS3s in North America in 2006.

Like several industry analysts, Probst also believes Sony missed its North American launch target of 400,000 PS3s shipped. The exec believes as many as 200,000 units were available when the PS3 debuted on November 17. Even with EA expecting less than 400,000 consoles for the launch, Probst said, "Where [Sony] ended up was a bit of a surprise."

Sony has yet to release sales numbers for the PS3. Nintendo, on the other hand, said 600,000 Wiis were sold in the console's first eight days on sale.

"Clearly the Wii has a spectacular holiday," said Probst, adding that sales of the new Nintendo console exceeded his company's forecast.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6162523.html

When developers and publishers have to break out their calculators and crunch numbers - userbase divided by development costs, or whatever - before they even start working on a game that's bad news for creativity. Or at the very least, exclusivity. And this is what many are going to have to do before they decide to work on a PS3 game - they're going to have do like Bandai-Namco and question whether they can make any money on a PS3 version of their game. That's not good. This is what happened to the GameCube and Xbox last gen. But it looks like the positions are going to be reversed this gen!

Only, Sony has less to fall back on than Nintendo and MS did/do. Alls they've got is Blu-ray. That's terrible.

* When I say the PS3 will Dreamcast out of here, I'm thinking it will do so after about two, maybe three, years not one.

Gadfly2317

12-02-2006, 07:00 AM

As for people preferring Wii over PS3 and what not, I don't know how much of that is true. What I know is true though is that I've been looking for PS3 for the past few weeks at various locations and I haven't been able to find ANY. Wii will do better in the beginning. However the reality is that it is always easier to make better looking games than more innovative games. Wii will not do in the long run against either PS3 or Xbox360. Can Nintendo be confident and say we will be able to make enough innovative games to keep gamers with Wii through this generation? I seriously doubt it.

You can't find any Ps3's because Sony is unable to manufacture them very quickly, so there aren't any there.

Wii will obviously do better in the beginning, but I've been saying for a LONG time I expected it to be another gaming-craze like the DS was, and it may be turning out that way. This initial burst of frenzy around it is just the start, not merely an initial glut of fanboys. The buzz is so loud you can hear it in the streets, literally. If the third parties come back in a big way, Nintendo will have all the momentum it needs to carry it through to whatever it comes up with next.

Glock is right. Sony is pretty screwed. All the momentum in the US is with Wii and 360, and even in Japan the 360 Blue-Dragon bundle pre-order of 100,000 sold out instantly. If 360 establishes ANY kind of presence in japan, it suddenly becomes a legitimate contender in that market. And we KNOW the Wii is going to follow in the DS's footsteps in Japan. . . and the DS itself may continue to dominate that market regardless.

Sony NEEDS big numbers for the software to balance hardware losses, and I just don't see it as possible. As out of whack as the original Xbox was--to the point it was never profitable--the Ps3 is far far worse off, and with the momentum slipping and developers jumping ship, what is left to fuel Sony's overweighted rocket?

slade

12-02-2006, 09:50 AM

I wonder what exactly is the difference between making games for 360 vs. PS3. If development for one next gen console costs this much, then surely it won't be all that different for the console closest to it.

This is hardly even news though since we've been hearing about rocketing development costs for next gen since earlier this year. It was the same doom and gloom for the PS2 launch. What might happen is that a few more publishers will get taken out of the fight this gen like what happened last gen with Acclaim and a few others. Or, we'll see even more mergers or buyouts. Nothing is different aside from development costs going up a bit more but if your favorite publisher is underperforming, then they might be in trouble.

As for the budget titles, those cost much less to develop then a big flagship title. If Sony delivers the userbase, then those titles will appear on PS3 regardless of the other consoles.

Glockstar

12-02-2006, 12:29 PM

I wonder what exactly is the difference between making games for 360 vs. PS3. If development for one next gen console costs this much, then surely it won't be all that different for the console closest to it.

The difference is that for PS3 games, developers have to hire an extra 100 people - and not just any people, but rocket scientists and other brainiacs - just to figure out the Cell processor. :p

I don't know the exact answer to that, but I think it can be found in these three words: Developers! Developers! Developers!

MS is all about making their platforms easy to develop for, and providing tools for developers. That's the niche they're filling - that along with Xbox Live - in this console venture of theirs. I don't know if they go as far as providing financial aid, but I do know that otherwise MS does everything they can to aid Xbox game developers.

Which is the exact opposite of Sony. They're all about putting out a high-tech product, plain and simple. And their Playstation products are as equally renowned for the their difficulty of use as much as their potential.

This is hardly even news though since we've been hearing about rocketing development costs for next gen since earlier this year. It was the same doom and gloom for the PS2 launch. What might happen is that a few more publishers will get taken out of the fight this gen like what happened last gen with Acclaim and a few others. Or, we'll see even more mergers or buyouts. Nothing is different aside from development costs going up a bit more but if your favorite publisher is underperforming, then they might be in trouble.

As for the budget titles, those cost much less to develop then a big flagship title. If Sony delivers the userbase, then those titles will appear on PS3 regardless of the other consoles.

Those are some interesting observations... I like them.

However, there's a phenomenon here you're overlooking: more and more developers and publishers are moving away from Sony and are throwing in with MS.

- Namco-Bandai extended their favorite favor to Sony's consoles to the 360: Ridge Racer. And is bringing games that have a decidedly Japanese flava to them, not to the PS3, but exclusively to the 360.
- Rockstar said they'd release GTA IV on PS3 and 360 at the same. Then added that they were going to do downloadable content for the 360 version too.
- Capcom said they were working on RE5 simultaneously for PS3 and 360. Then threw in with two exclusive titles (DR and LP). While they've only got the one game for PS3 (DMC4).
- Ubisoft changed Assasins Creed from a PS3 exclusive to a PS3 and 360 game. Then said that the next Splinter Cell would be 360 only.
- KOEI also took the PS3 exclusivity tag off from a couple of their games (Bladestorm and FI).

And the 360 can lay claim to more games in development in the one genre that would benefit the most from the Blu-ray storage capacity than the PS3 can: JRPG's! How is that?!

These are just off the top of my head. And, it's just the beginning, I think.

This is all remarkable to me because last gen everything was to the PS2's favor - and lopsidedly so! Is it all simply because of developing costs?

Or is size of userbase also a factor?

Because let's face it, the PS3 is sucking hind titty here. And will continue to... for probably until 2008 - at the earliest. Because it will take them that long to even make as many PS3's as there are/will be 360's and Wii's that have been bought.

And you notice that when devs and pubs ***** about skyrocketing costs they do it in either a general fashion, or by singling out the PS3 (as N-B did). Notice that none of them have complained about 360 or Wii, specifically.

Mochan

12-02-2006, 06:08 PM

So to sum it all up it may be over a year or more until alot of game developers are able to hone down how to truly use the cell prosessor of the PS3 and everything else under the hood of it. Not to mention the software for the PS3 thus far hasnt really been selling like bottled water was back when Y2K was running wild back in 1999.

Funny Neo, but the same thing applies to the 360.

Now would you y'all stop a second and look at those titles... Mobile Ops and Zegapain are based on anime; Culdcept Saga is a cult smash in Japan; and Eternal Sonata is a JRPG. These are the games that B/N is doing for the 360! Not the PS3, the 360!

It's true. This is why I haven't discounted the 360. What will tell is whether the Japanese audience will lick it up. Once they do, then Sony is doomed unless the PS3 gets even more support than that.

And the 360 can lay claim to more games in development in the one genre that would benefit the most from the Blu-ray storage capacity than the PS3 can: JRPG's! How is that?!

These are just off the top of my head. And, it's just the beginning, I think.

This is all remarkable to me because last gen everything was to the PS2's favor - and lopsidedly so! Is it all simply because of developing costs?

I personally think it's money. MS is giving these guys incentives, Sony isn't. Gotta love those deep pockets!

I don't think it's development costs. We all knew MS was doing all it could to make the 360 as big a success as possible. Bluedragon support was solicited way before the 360 started, and before dev kits were out. So I doubt it was the "ease of development."

Planning for the Zegapain anime occured more than a year ago, way before the 360 launched and sold its figures -- an it had the 360 as one of its primary sponsors. So it's not size of userbase.

That the Microsoft is actually sponsoring anime these days shows that MS is pouring money into the tank, I'm not complaining really and I loved Zegapain to be honest. My point is I think MS is winning this (or their strategy to win this is) based on financial might, and the willingness to use it, rather than anything else.

It's a bunch of factors, including those, but a lot of the current 360 support is there because MS really wooed and courted the game developers before hand with all sorts of incentives, promises, and market figures. I don't know. Kudos to MS though, because they seem to be succeeding with their overtures. The real test will be over 2007 until early 2008, by then we should all know who's winning this gen.

ilnadmy

12-03-2006, 12:47 AM

The Milk Drinkers Band (l to r) Folken 001,ilnadmy,Slade,& PC headbanger Mochan. Singing their hit single"The PS3 is a PC not a game console."

Awesome! I'm a drummer! :cool:

I do want to weigh in on the PS3's supposedly "difficult to program for" Cell processor. Last gen, the same was said of the PS2, specifically that it was more difficult to program for than the Xbox. However, the PS2 ended up being more versatile than the Xbox. Case in point: compare first-gen games like TimeSplitters with God of War and Shadow of the Colossus. Now, compare Halo 1 to Halo 2. The difference is much more pronounced on the PS2 than on the Xbox. Same thing is happening now. People rag on the PS3, saying that Resistance doesn't look nearly as good as Gears. The difference is, the 360 won't be able to push much better graphics than Gears in the future, while the PS3 still has a long way to go. Say what you want, Metal Gear Solid 4 and Devil May Cry 4 already look as good, if not better, than Gears.

The PS3 might be harder to develop for, but it is also more versatile, meaning developers can squeeze a LOT more out of the hardware. People lambasted Sony for doing the same with the PS2, and look where they are now: kings of the last-gen battle.

Jason Rubin of Naughty Dog said that he was willing to drive nails into his fingers in order to program a game for the PS2 if it meant that he would sell more copies on the PS2 than on the Xbox, and I think that's what many developers look at. Sure, PS3 is harder to program for, but if you can sell a lot of copies of your game on that system, then it's worth the gamble.

Admittedly, right now the PS3 doesn't have a large installed base, so developers might be wary of developing games for the system. But games like MGS4 and DMC4 are system-movers in their own right. That, along with FFXIII and GOW3 are more AAA titles than the 360 has to its name thus far (Gears of War and...hmm...let's see...Oblivion? COD2? Oh wait, no, they're not exclusives, never mind). Those four games will ship PS3's like you wouldn't believe. If Gears was a system-mover for the 360, then those four games will cause PS3's to magically materialize in people's living rooms.

Bottom line, I see the PS3 shipping a lot of systems. The price is quite high, I agree, but people have gotten used to that and have had time to save up.

Also, Mochan brings up a good point. A lot of developers are moving to 360 because MS is providing incentives. Sony has quite a few high-profile exclusives from third-parties, not because they're paying them off, but because the developers have faith that the PS3 crowd will go out and buy the hell out of their games. It's a trust vs. hand-greasing battle here, and in the long run guess which one is more effective? Maybe that's what you should be debating.

folken001

12-03-2006, 01:16 AM

That is why I agree with KK's comment about next gen starts with PS3. What does XBox360 have? FAster version of old chip. Old storage medium. Pretty much the same old video card with faster clock speed. If that's what you call next gen, then hell, my computer has been through many generations. It gets one gen every time I get a bigger HDD or Faster or DVD Rom. I am sure M$ can change a screw in the old Xbox and call it a breakthrough. What's rreally funny is the braindead Xbots would actually believe it. Is that why game like deadrising sells well on 360? HMMMMMMM.

ilnadmy

12-03-2006, 01:44 AM

And another thing. The 360's next-gen-ishness comes from better graphics. The PS3's next-gen-ishness comes from the processor that can do calculations behind-the-scenes. What does that mean? Given a game with the same graphics on the 360 and the PS3, the PS3 version will have more room for physics, AI, animations, and all other kinds of crap that I haven't seen yet and that you Xbots won't ever see on the 360. For example, psychological warfare in MGS4, not to mention several factions that react to your actions and automatically form or break alliances with you. They've also got that chameleon-like camo suit that snake wears. There is something apparently in DMC4 to do with Nero's hand-to-hand combat, and the director said they needed the Cell processor to be able to pull off the animations of his hand and how it interacts with enemies. I don't know what it is exactly, so I'm taking this as hype, but you can see how developers are starting to harness the PS3's processor to improve the game experience. Xbots were pissing their pants when they heard about Blinx's time control. They're gonna need a whole new wardrobe if this Cell thing pans out.

In some cases, PS3 games will have more behind-the-scenes calculations AND better graphics. Again, I point you to MGS4. And this is just the beginning.

Zilla Man

12-03-2006, 02:59 AM

In addition to being $600, the extended warranty (VERY necessary purchase) adds another $109.00 to the cost.

Um, actually the 360 included warranty is 90 days (and we all know how those turned out:

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3866&Itemid=2

- and the PS3 included warranty is one year.

initial burst of frenzy around it is just the start, not merely an initial glut of fanboys. The buzz is so loud you can hear it in the streets, literally.

Oh, please, Gaddy. Now you're really into fanboy territory. Consoles and portables are two different markets. The DS is cheap and easy to program for but also has alot of shovelware posing as "games". That won't work on a home console. The Wii may be cheap but it's lack of power and the fact that everything must be tailor-made specificly for the Wii mote will hurt 3rd party ports.

Also,in Nintendo's case, initial sales don't mean squat. Why? Remember my E3 reports every year? Year after yrear, which booth was always the most crowded? Year after year, which booth had 3 hour lines of fanboys waiting just to get a company trinket? Nintendo! Why? Because it has the most fanatical following of any company. But if fanaticism translates into sales, then tell me why the Game Cube came in last in console sales, behind a newcomer who had no previous gaming experience? 3rd party games don't mean squat for Nintendo owners. You need look no farther than the Resident Evil remake to see that. Not only did it not sell more Cubes, it did nothing to dissuade people that the Cube was a "kiddy" system. Hell, even RE4 a great game that was supposed to be a killer app for the Cube, sold so poorly that Capcom had to port it over to the PS2 in order to make a profit! So tell me again how the Wii is going to overcome this to fare better than the Cube?

When the Wii outsells the 360 and PS3 in 2007, then you can claim victory. I'm betting once the "gimmick" appeal of the Wii wears off and the programmers hit the technical wall trying to port over games, Nintendo will face the same problems it had with the Cube. In fact it already is :

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4267&Itemid=36

Now that Black Friday has come and gone, what are videogame retailers’ early impressions of sales over the weekend? Next-Gen took a quick poll…
Just days ago, the most dedicated videogame fans (and eBayers) waited out on the cold November sidewalks of retailers for the release of the PS3 and Wii. The events stirred up a frenzy in both the specialty and mainstream media, but did their limited-supply launches actually translate into more retail traffic and sales?

We spoke with a few East Coast retailers that didn’t have the word “Stop” or “Boutique” as part of their names. This isn’t a comprehensive poll, but it gives an idea of retail activity in small pockets in the eastern US.

Despite the high-profile hardware launches, the impression that we got is that Thanksgiving weekend 2006 was busier for some, but not remarkably more so than years past. Still, the availability of Sony and Nintendo's new hardware was the prime focus of retailers we spoke with.

Sara, a manager at a Game Crazy in Albany, New York aptly described the environment over the weekend as “crazy.” She added, “There were a lot of people coming in here asking about [PS3 and Wii]. Pretty much every person that came in here, eight out of 10, wanted one of them.”

She also said that the PS3 “probably” had more inquiries. “People think that the Wii is more kid-oriented.”

In general she described her retail viewpoint as, “A lot of people wanting a lot of stuff, and getting mad if we don’t have it. Everyone wants PS3 or Wii accessories, if not the systems, or Xbox 360 stuff.”

Tammy, the owner of Video Game Heaven in North Chesapeake, Virginia said that her early perception of business over the weekend was in line with years prior. “I would say it was the same for me. It was definitely pretty busy. … I’ll tell you the truth. I think people assume that the PS3 is unattainable. So it’s like they hardly even ask, or when they ask, they say, ‘I know you don’t have a PS3,’ and ask anyway. I think more people were asking for the Wii because they thought that was more obtainable.”

Nate, an employee for Game Attic in Lakeland, Florida said, “We did better than last year, but not better than the year before.” His store only received one PS3 and one Wii. “[Customers] mostly asked about the PS3,” he explained.

Howard at Fun N Games in Pompton Lake, New Jersey commented about the compared demand between the PS3 and Wii, saying briefly, “It looks like Wii is bigger right this second.” He echoed the theory that most customers don't expect a PS3 to be available at all, so more inquired about the Wii.

Christine, an employee with Play N Trade in Forked River, New Jersey said, “It seems busier. I wouldn’t say a lot busier, but it seems busier. We were actually busy the day before Thanksgiving, which was a shock.” She said that her store didn’t get any PS3s, but did get six Wiis.

Like other retailers we polled, she said that more asked about the Wii than the PS3, but the number of inquiries may not be indiciative of consumers' true PS3 interest. “I think that the only reason that people asked about the Wiis more than the PS3 was because they knew that they were just wasting their breath to ask for the PS3s."

Wii, a more "kid-orientated" system?:idea: Hmmm. Sound familiar?

Rockstar said they'd release GTA IV on PS3 and 360 at the same. Then added that they were going to do downloadable content for the 360 version too.

They also added that there'd be exclusive downloadable content for the PS3 as well. But I guess that must've slipped your mind.:rolleyes:

Your also forgetting the most important thing. MS has only one major killer app (i.e. a game that people will buy 360's just to play) - Halo. Despite selling a million copies GoW hasn't boosted 360 sales like expected. So they need 3rd party games more than Sony or Nintendo.

Sony has several: MGS4, GTHD, Final Fantasy, Ratchet & Clank, as well as the new IP's like Lair.

But the main reason why 3rd parties will back the PS3 more than than the Wii or 360 is simple:

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=4274&Itemid=2

Sony Computer Entertainment America communications boss David Karraker didn’t reveal exact unit sales numbers, but said that week-over-week ending November 26, PS2 hardware sales were up 116.5 percent and PSP sales were up 280.5 percent.

Similarly, PS2 first party software sales were up 120.6 percent and PSP software was up 167.9 percent.

A 6 year old system outselling the two next generation newcomers? And the software as well?

PSP sales up 280.5 percent? Not bad for a system that's "still sucking", eh Gaddy? Considering that this is Sony's 1st foray into the handheld market that's been dominated by one company for 20 years, I'd say that's pretty damn good.

So far, it's business as usual for Sony. The PS2 was predicted to fail due to it being hard to program for, lack of units, more expensive than the Cube, etc. It turned out fine. When PS3 comes in 3rd mid-2007, then I'll start to worry. Otherwise it's just shadenfraude from worried Xbots and people who can't accept the fact that Nintendo keeps losing more market share with each generation.

Gadfly2317

12-03-2006, 06:24 AM

. Hell, even RE4 a great game that was supposed to be a killer app for the Cube, sold so poorly that Capcom had to port it over to the PS2 in order to make a profit! So tell me again how the Wii is going to overcome this to fare better than the Cube? Not even relevant; the Wii is not the Gamecube, and the Ps3 is not the Ps2.

.When the Wii outsells the 360 and PS3 in 2007, then you can claim victory. I would gladly take the wager that come December 31st, 2007, when you tally up the worldwide totals, Wii will be ahead of Ps3.

She also said that the PS3 “probably” had more inquiries. “People think that the Wii is more kid-oriented.”---Wii, a more "kid-orientated" system?:idea: Hmmm. Sound familiar? Yeah, its sounds familiar, like some bimbo at a store spouting an old paradigm. She obviously wasn't outside stores seeing the lines of adults buying the system for themselves. This journalist asked a few retailers their opinion. I've asked a few retailers their opinion too, as well as talked to people two weeks in a row in these giant ass lines around Targets and Best Buys. I guess you could say the Wii is more kid-friendly because it is less focused on gore than the other systems, but the consensus I've seen in gaming mags, from talking to retailers, and to people buying Wii's is that the system is appealing to all demographics--old gamers, new gamers, adults, kids, and Eric Cartman.

All the rest of those retail opinions, summed up as "I think people were asking about the Wii because they probably didn't think the Ps3 would be available" is so much speculation. "I think." The only fact those retailers can point to is that people were asking about the Wii and buying the Wii; you cannot logically deduce they were asking about and buying Wii's "because they didn't think Ps3's would be available." If you'd waited and saved for a Ps3 all year long, you are not going to suddenly stop waiting and blow your cash the day the Wii is released. That is just freaking stupid.

The Wii wasn't available the first week I went to get one, but I didn't suddenly inquire about the 360 and take one of those home. The Wii lines at E3 dwarfed other Nintendo E3 showings, and the Wii launch lines dwarfed all others. I say it again: this wasn't just a surge of fanboys. The Wii is a bona fide mass market hit and the momentum has only just begun.

Cuddly Knife

12-03-2006, 09:17 AM

For example, psychological warfare in MGS4, not to mention several factions that react to your actions and automatically form or break alliances with you. They've also got that chameleon-like camo suit that snake wears. There is something apparently in DMC4 to do with Nero's hand-to-hand combat, and the director said they needed the Cell processor to be able to pull off the animations of his hand and how it interacts with enemies. I don't know what it is exactly, so I'm taking this as hype, but you can see how developers are starting to harness the PS3's processor to improve the game experience.

In some cases, PS3 games will have more behind-the-scenes calculations AND better graphics. Again, I point you to MGS4. And this is just the beginning.
A big fat PPPFFFTTTT to you, sir. How much you want to bet that other than the camo suit, MGS will be the same old gameplay with pretty much the same kind of level layout? Form or break alliances? That was being done last gen with games like Mercenaries. They said that Nero gameplay couldn't be done on the PS2, but can on next-gen systems. I think that's more the weak power of the PS2 instead of the Cell being so great. If Kojima says that MGS4 can be done on the 360, why don't you believe him?

ilnadmy

12-03-2006, 09:29 AM

If Kojima says that MGS4 can be done on the 360, why don't you believe him?

Link please.

Cuddly Knife

12-03-2006, 09:46 AM

Link please.
BLAM!

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/676/676685p1.html

MGS4 Possible on Xbox 360
Konami's Hideo Kojima says hardware is no longer an issue.
by Douglass C. Perry

December 16, 2005 - In a recent Web interview with Hideo Kojima, the master of all things Metal Gear Solid explained that creating Metal Gear Solid 4 is technically possible on Xbox 360.

Kojima said with the exception of nuances or small details, the power of next generation hardware (and the PC) no longer provides the technical restrictions they did before. Kojima also explained in a sideways manner why the Xbox never saw a version of Metal Gear Solid Snake Eater. He explained that he has no grudge or dislike for the Xbox or Xbox 360, but last year he and his team had their hands full with MGS3. Other Konami teams, he said, were able to get their hands on the Xbox 360 tools before him. It's his philosophy that he wants to be first, not second on the early development for a system, which is why he chose PS3.

When IGN contacted Konami America today, the representative said, "there are no new developments or news to share about any Metal Gear products coming to Xbox or 360."

We'll relay any new MGS3 or MGS4 news if and when possible.

trebor

12-03-2006, 09:47 AM

Hell, even RE4 a great game that was supposed to be a killer app for the Cube, sold so poorly that Capcom had to port it over to the PS2 in order to make a profit! So tell me again how the Wii is going to overcome this to fare better than the Cube?

That's either a really poor example or you are losing your memory, Zilla.

In case you just forgot, Capcom announced they were developing a PS2 version of RE4 before it was even released at all for the Cube. Plus, the Cube version of RE4 OUTSOLD the PS2 version worldwide.

So, yeah, bad example. :D

Glockstar

12-03-2006, 10:05 AM

crap

Omg, you are such a hack. You're a joke! Get the frack away from me. LOL

Tappy_Tibbons

12-03-2006, 10:31 AM

Namco sucks. Go play Dead to Rights, Tekken 1043597, or Ridge Racer 5728754857389 if you want...I'd rather not

ilnadmy

12-03-2006, 10:57 AM

BLAM!

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/676/676685p1.html
Alright, well then Kojima knows more than I do. Still, I think it wouldn't be the exact same game, as the PS3 does have an advantage in processing power over the 360. In order to hit the same graphics, they'd probably have to forgo other stuff.

I might be wrong, and only time will tell, but for now I'm giving the PS3 the nod in terms of graphical and processing power.

slade

12-03-2006, 01:12 PM

NEO-360

12-03-2006, 02:07 PM

Note that Kojima's comments are from last year and in recent comments he backed off. In fact, he said something like MGS4's spirit could not be replicated on 360 in its current form on PS3 or something like that.

Anyway, getting back to all this hoopla over Cell. It isn't any different then what went on with the Emotion Engine. If any one here still remembers Lorne Lanning and I know most of you do, go look up some history.

Heres the true Pros & Cons of the main chip inside the PS3.

Pros::thumbsup:
The heart of the PS3: The Proprietary chip.This chip is made up of 8 independant processor cores. This is the thing that gives game developers a highly customizable processing environment that easily stands above the 360 and the Wii in terms of raw mathimatical computation.

Con::cryin:

At the same time though this unique chipset requires more specialized programming techniques. In other words:It'll be tougher to develop games for the PS3 than for Sony's competitors.Not to mention multiplatform games may not look any better on the PS3 than on the Xbox 360.

This reason alone just may be the difference maker down the stretch in this console war. .:8:

NEO-360

12-03-2006, 02:14 PM

[QUOTE=Mochan]Funny Neo, but the same thing applies to the 360.

The same cant be said about the PS3. Developing games for the PS3 will be a job in itself when compared to developing software for the 360 and the Wii. Eventually developers will figure it out. But no time soon. In this console war using more difficult technology could in fact produce some awesome games down the stretch. No doubt about it.

However, when it comes to getting games cranking out at a fevers pace there are no promises that what we see will be better than what most of us can already get from out PS2's or our Xbox's for that matter. Right now its simply too soon to expect that powerful chip to be cake for game developers to work with for right now. The 360 on the other hand is cake & Ice cream to develop for.:cool:

DrunkenThumbmaster

12-03-2006, 03:52 PM

Heres the true Pros & Cons of the main chip inside the PS3.

Pros::thumbsup:
The heart of the PS3: The Proprietary chip.This chip is made up of 8 independant processor cores. This is the thing that gives game developers a highly customizable processing environment that easily stands above the 360 and the Wii in terms of raw mathimatical computation.

No the cell only has 1 full core with 7 SPE's. Which reportedly aren't as flexible as a full core. Which the 360 has 3 of.

It's funny how people are just for granted stating that the Cell is better. I haven't seen anything to make me believe that.

Zilla Man

12-03-2006, 06:47 PM

That's either a really poor example or you are losing your memory, Zilla.

In case you just forgot, Capcom announced they were developing a PS2 version of RE4 before it was even released at all for the Cube. Plus, the Cube version of RE4 OUTSOLD the PS2 version worldwide.

So, yeah, bad example. :D

Really? That's the first I've heard of that. Link please for both those claims...:idea:

Also, show me where the RE remake and RE4 actually spiked Cube sales (which was a point you ignored). Because from the numbers that were posted on here and other websites, neither did that.

Zilla Man

12-03-2006, 07:11 PM

The Wii lines at E3 dwarfed other Nintendo E3 showings, and the Wii launch lines dwarfed all others. I say it again: this wasn't just a surge of fanboys. The Wii is a bona fide mass market hit and the momentum has only just begun.

Thanks, Gaddy, you just helped me prove my point!:thumbsup: Go back and reread what I said about the lines at E3 vs. longtime (not launch) sales and then get back to me.

trebor

12-03-2006, 07:15 PM

Really? That's the first I've heard of that. Link please for both those claims...:idea:

According to Wikipedia, I'm correct on one count and incorrect on the other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resident_Evil_4

This article states that Capcom announced RE4 for PS2 on October 31, 2004, but if you recall they released RE4 on the Cube in January of 2005.

It does state that the overall sales for RE4 totaled over 3 million across all platforms, and that PS2 accounted for 1.8 million of those sales, but the source link doesn't look entirely legit.

Wikipedia has been known to have incorrect info, as we all know.

Also, show me where the RE remake and RE4 actually spiked Cube sales (which was a point you ignored). Because from the numbers that were posted on here and other websites, neither did that.

I can't account for REmake, but logically one could argue that because of the PS2 RE4 announcement BEFORE the release of the Cube version, it sabotaged any possible system sales. As we all know, there isn't much point in buying a console for a game if you can play it on the system you already own.

Zilla Man

12-03-2006, 07:22 PM

At the same time though this unique chipset requires more specialized programming techniques. In other words:It'll be tougher to develop games for the PS3 than for Sony's competitors.Not to mention multiplatform games may not look any better on the PS3 than on the Xbox 360.

This reason alone just may be the difference maker down the stretch in this console war. .:8:

No it won't.

The PS2 was a lot harder to program for than the Xbox or the Cube. Yet it had more 3rd party titles than either company. Not only that, 3rd parties are still cranking out games for it long after the Cube and Xbox have died out.

As far as PS3 specificly, just look at the IGN interview with Factor Five regarding LAIR.

I think that this upcoming generation is going to end up pretty much like the last one, except it'll just take The only Wild Card is Nintendo and how well their system will actually sell in the long run. The last two generations they've started out strong only to end up losing more and more marketshare in the end. I'm skeptical that they can turn it around this generation.

ilnadmy

12-03-2006, 10:33 PM

The PS2 was a lot harder to program for than the Xbox or the Cube. Yet it had more 3rd party titles than either company. Not only that, 3rd parties are still cranking out games for it long after the Cube and Xbox have died out.

Thank you!

Developers will do whatever they need to to sell games, and if that means programming for a difficult console, well then so be it. This is their job after all, and they gotta feed their kids (and buy nice cars and such).

Plus, more difficult to program for usually means more versatility. That means, while the 360 can crank out amazing graphics now, it's not going to get much better. The PS3, on the other hand, is cranking out graphics that are slightly below the 360, but in the future it will have a lot farther to go.

NEO-360

12-04-2006, 04:50 AM

No it won't.

The PS2 was a lot harder to program for than the Xbox or the Cube. Yet it had more 3rd party titles than either company. Not only that, 3rd parties are still cranking out games for it long after the Cube and Xbox have died out.

As far as PS3 specificly, just look at the IGN interview with Factor Five regarding LAIR.

I think that this upcoming generation is going to end up pretty much like the last one, except it'll just take The only Wild Card is Nintendo and how well their system will actually sell in the long run. The last two generations they've started out strong only to end up losing more and more marketshare in the end. I'm skeptical that they can turn it around this generation.

First off, the PS2 was also on the same playing field as the Xbox in terms of price and technology. Only difference maker was that the Xbox had more power and a HD under the hood. The rest was feasable. In this case the PS3 has a more complicated chip that indeed makes developing games for it harder than it would be to develop games for the Wii or the 360. Thats a fact. 3rd party support isnt an issue here for MS or Sony. Its all about how long it'll take game developers to learn how to use that chip.

Time is money. And developers has only a certain amount of time to get those games out.So when you have two consoles thats easy to develop for against a console thats a little more complicated to develop for something has to give here.

Either developers has to delay releasing the other two versions in order to finish the PS3 version of the game or they have to release the other two versions on time and release Sony's version whenever its ready. These things could very well be a huge factor down the stretch. This is one of the reasons why there wont be many exclusives on the PS3. Nobody got time to waste like that.

You guys are thinking about in the long run who'll be standing tall. Well, a console is only as good as its games. I'll leave it at that. The rest from a technical standpoint will either make or break the PS3. All that power and extras are great, but will it be the deciding factor whether or not the PS3 truly survives? We'll see.:ihih:

Gadfly2317

12-04-2006, 07:04 AM

Thanks, Gaddy, you just helped me prove my point!:thumbsup: Go back and reread what I said about the lines at E3 vs. longtime (not launch) sales and then get back to me.

Proved your point? The E3 Wii lines were dissproportiately huge compared to Nintendo lines in the past. The press has been huge. Hell, the guy in the line right next to me THE SECOND WEEK of around the building lines--was 40 year old real estate guy who'd read about the Wii in the Wall Street journal or NYT or something and was intruiged by the controls and had never owned a videogame console in his life.

Continued demand over the next couple years. . . sure, its speculation. But I firmly believe the Wii will do better than the the 'cube, that it really is pulling in a wider demographic. People want to experience this new thing in gaming, and people are impressed. Word of mouth is huge, and I've heard plenty of thanksgiving stories already of people getting their non-gaming relatives stoked on the Wii.

Take the other big consideration into account: Price. Ps3 is cool, but when its out of so many people's price range, the mind can easily rationalize "new gameplay is cooler than new graphics" when those fancy graphics are out of your price range.

And that doesn't even take 360 into account, which next xmas should hit a price drop and have Halo and Mass Effect. I'm not dissing Ps3 itself, I'm just analyzing what I feel are the problems it faces in doing anywhere near as well as Ps2. I'm not calling it Dreamcast yet, but the if these were all three ships crossing the north atlantic in 1914, I would not be sailing the seas on a Ps3. . . the largest grandest console ever made. .. "God himself could not sink this console."

It may not sink, but it will never turn a profit. That was expected for Xbox which was bleeding just to establish a position on the beachhead; you don't bleed red-ink when you are the established market leader unless you are fighting just to survive.

Mochan

12-04-2006, 09:10 AM

In this case the PS3 has a more complicated chip that indeed makes developing games for it harder than it would be to develop games for the Wii or the 360

Xbox 360's chip is every bit as complicated and poses its own development problems. The only difference is that MS allegedly made better development tools than Sony -- though we really don't know the truth of that though we do have many hearsay reports saying Devs prefer the MS devkit to the Sony one.

As for fighting just to survive, well this is a fight against MS, one of the richest and most aggressive corporations out there right now. It's no surprise Sony is in the fight of its life. Would be simpler if this were just SCE vs MS, and not Sony and its boatload of lagging divisions vs. MS. Sony's got a lot of other weight to carry around.

NEO-360

12-04-2006, 12:59 PM

Xbox 360's chip is every bit as complicated and poses its own development problems. The only difference is that MS allegedly made better development tools than Sony -- though we really don't know the truth of that though we do have many hearsay reports saying Devs prefer the MS devkit to the Sony one.

As for fighting just to survive, well this is a fight against MS, one of the richest and most aggressive corporations out there right now. It's no surprise Sony is in the fight of its life. Would be simpler if this were just SCE vs MS, and not Sony and its boatload of lagging divisions vs. MS. Sony's got a lot of other weight to carry around.

And where may I ask did you read this about the 360? My guess your imagination. I've actually read this about the PS3 in an official videogame magazine. In addition everything that I said about that chip is a actual fact. Developing for the PS3 wont be a walk in the park. Between the blu-ray and that special chip making games for the PS3 wont come easy like it will for the Wii and the Xbox 360.

This is something you cant ignore. Eventually this will become a very serious issue for game developers until they get this thing honed.:(

Zilla Man

12-04-2006, 05:35 PM

First off, the PS2 was also on the same playing field as the Xbox in terms of price and technology. Only difference maker was that the Xbox had more power and a HD under the hood.

Wrong again. The Xbox had an Intel 733 MHz Celeron processor and Nvidia Graphics card in it. The same processor that was being used in PC's at the time. It was purposely designed like a PC to be easy to program for.

The PS2 had a customary chipset that included the Emotion Engine. There were many complaints and fears that the architecture was hard to understand because it was so different from Xbox/PC's and GameCube (which also had a PC-based processor).

Next time check your facts, kid.

I've actually read this about the PS3 in an official videogame magazine.(

Wow, NEO you actually read?:rolleyes:

In addition everything that I said about that chip is a actual fact. Developing for the PS3 wont be a walk in the park. Between the blu-ray and that special chip making games for the PS3 wont come easy like it will for the Wii and the Xbox 360

If you can read, I guess you didn't read my reply about the difficult of programming and how it has no bearing onthe quality of games and actual system sales.:blush2: BTW, that fact can be found not only in videogame magazines, but on the net as well.

Typical NEO behavior:

1) Bring up point without researching facts.

2) When someone responds with facts proving NEO point is false, ignore facts.

The reason why some VGR vets want to put you on their ignore list isn't because they can't debate you. It's because they think it's a waste of time (see above for reasons why).

NEO-360

12-05-2006, 06:49 AM

Wrong again. The Xbox had an Intel 733 MHz Celeron processor and Nvidia Graphics card in it. The same processor that was being used in PC's at the time. It was purposely designed like a PC to be easy to program for.

The PS2 had a customary chipset that included the Emotion Engine. There were many complaints and fears that the architecture was hard to understand because it was so different from Xbox/PC's and GameCube (which also had a PC-based processor).

Next time check your facts, kid.

Wow, NEO you actually read?:rolleyes:

If you can read, I guess you didn't read my reply about the difficult of programming and how it has no bearing onthe quality of games and actual system sales.:blush2: BTW, that fact can be found not only in videogame magazines, but on the net as well.

Typical NEO behavior:

1) Bring up point without researching facts.

2) When someone responds with facts proving NEO point is false, ignore facts.

The reason why some VGR vets want to put you on their ignore list isn't because they can't debate you. It's because they think it's a waste of time (see above for reasons why).

Gee, is that the best you can do? You speak for everyone Zilla Man? Well, first off the article that I read about the PS3's chip and its difficulties was actually inside the latest EGM with Master Chief on the cover.

The editors from EGM breaks everything down in great detail about the Wii and the PS3. Who cares about the PS2 and the Xbox right now? We are talking about the PS3,the Wii,and the 360. If I was wrong about something then I admit when I'm wrong.

But Zilla Man, most of us dont do our homework around here. Most of us simply runs with something before truly finding out what were screaming about. You're no different some of the time. But I'm used to guys like you joining in on the haters club. Keep up the good work Zilla Man. I'll make sure the next time I jump in on a thread you are involved in I'll have plenty of info to kick you in the cajones with. :thumbsup:

Gadfly2317

12-05-2006, 07:38 AM

Gee, is that the best you can do? You speak for everyone Zilla Man? Well, first off the article that I read about the PS3's chip and its difficulties was actually inside the latest EGM with Master Chief on the cover.

The editors from EGM breaks everything down in great detail about the Wii and the PS3. Who cares about the PS2 and the Xbox right now? We are talking about the PS3,the Wii,and the 360. If I was wrong about something then I admit when I'm wrong.

But Zilla Man, most of us dont do our homework around here. Most of us simply runs with something before truly finding out what were screaming about. You're no different some of the time. But I'm used to guys like you joining in on the haters club. Keep up the good work Zilla Man. I'll make sure the next time I jump in on a thread you are involved in I'll have plenty of info to kick you in the cajones with. :thumbsup:

This is hands down the weakest rebuttal I've ever read, anywhere, ever. I mean, "most of us dont do our homework around here. Most of us simply runs with something before truly finding out what were screaming about." what the HELL?

Speak for yourself, Reg. You're basically admitting you do nothing but talk out of your ass, and that you assume everyone else is completely uninformed and simply talking out of their asses too. News flash: differences of opinion aside, most people at this site are members of the reality-based community. . . we're not all floating in a space-bubble of made up bullsh!t the way you have been doing around here for years. And that is, indeed, the whole nine yards in a nutshell.

Cuddly Knife

12-05-2006, 09:20 AM

LOL, now that's oldschool action.

So what was so great about the Emotion Engine? My GCN had no such thing, and it had the best developed games out of all three systems at the time. There are games the XBOX could do that the PS2 couldn't, but not the other way around.

Gadfly2317

12-05-2006, 10:20 AM

There are games the XBOX could do that the PS2 couldn't.

Could, but didn't. What a waste.

Mochan

12-05-2006, 10:25 AM

I'm pretty sure the PS2 could do them, but with dumbed-down graphics and levels.

NEO-360

12-05-2006, 01:32 PM

This is hands down the weakest rebuttal I've ever read, anywhere, ever. I mean, "most of us dont do our homework around here. Most of us simply runs with something before truly finding out what were screaming about." what the HELL?

Speak for yourself, Reg. You're basically admitting you do nothing but talk out of your ass, and that you assume everyone else is completely uninformed and simply talking out of their asses too. News flash: differences of opinion aside, most people at this site are members of the reality-based community. . . we're not all floating in a space-bubble of made up bullsh!t the way you have been doing around here for years. And that is, indeed, the whole nine yards in a nutshell.

Well, somebody needs to get laid. Whats up with that Gadfly? I'am not saying that I simply talk out of my ass Gadfly all the time. What I said was sometimes some of the guys around here provides info to back up what they are saying and sometimes they dont. Alot of the time alot of you guys talks out of the side of their asses. Including me. Thats nothing new. Thats part of what made System Wars what it is today.

But I provided a word for word report on the chip of the PS3 along with the pros and cons. When I did that nobody had nothing to say to counter it. I even told everybody where they can read the arcticle if they didnt believe me. I've been around you guys for a long time. I think its safe to say most of us knows each other pretty well.

I know who provides info consistantly and who basically talks out of their pie-hole most of the time. So anytime you're ready feel free to take your head out your own ass and lighten up.

We're here to talk, listen,and learn.Not to mention have a good time with no flames if possible. And that truly is the whole nine yards in a nutshell.:thumbsup:

Mochan

12-05-2006, 03:33 PM

Well, somebody needs to get laid. Whats up with that Gadfly? I'am not saying that I simply talk out of my ass Gadfly all the time. Alot of the time alot of you guys talks out of the side of their asses. Including me.

Well that's better than me, I talk with my ass. That's fine though, the women seem to love it.

As for your facts about the Cell processor, you just stated what we all know, that it has 1 main processing core and 7 SPEs. Yes, it will be tough to program for it. But you know what? Having a triple core processor pretty much means the same difficulties. That's why I say the 360 intrinsically is not any easier to program for than the PS3. It's just that MS allegedly (and again I have no way of verifying other than what hearsay from devs) has delivered better dev tools to use for programming than Sony did, so the process is eased a bit for 360 developers. That doesn't change the fact that it will still take a lot of work for 360 developers to fully hone and make use of the 360's hardware, ditto Sony devs.

By the way this is one of the "incentives" I mentioned MS probably gave. Incentives doesn't just mean palm greasing, though I'd be greatly surprised if that wasn't part of a lot of the deals going around here.

And another thing. The 360's next-gen-ishness comes from better graphics. The PS3's next-gen-ishness comes from the processor that can do calculations behind-the-scenes.

Regarding this, take note that one of the things I liked about GoW was how allegedly your enemy AI is smart enough to react very differently to what's going on thanks to their more advanced AI. According to the devs the amount of AI computations needed could only be done on the Cell. I have no idea how this all panned out and probably will not for a long time yet, but if the AI lived up to the hype this is what ilnadmy is talking about.

folken001

12-05-2006, 05:16 PM

Regarding this, take note that one of the things I liked about GoW was how allegedly your enemy AI is smart enough to react very differently to what's going on thanks to their more advanced AI. According to the devs the amount of AI computations needed could only be done on the Cell. I have no idea how this all panned out and probably will not for a long time yet, but if the AI lived up to the hype this is what ilnadmy is talking about.

I got my 60 gig PS3 today and I've been playing Resistance. I think, overall, GoW does look better. However, I feel AI is harder in Resistance. I mean, maybe it's because you can't duck behind a wall and somehow know exactly where your enemies are in Resistance like you do in GoW. But, enemies seem to be smarter than the enemies in GoW. I mean, when I played Gow, there were times I was next to the enemies and they didn't even spot me and they kept on shooting at the other guy. In Resistance, it's like eneimes spot me as soon as I enter their field of vision.

Blu-ray drive is pretty nice. It loads the movie pretty fast. Every in movie commands run smoothly. Much different than what PS2's DVD drive was like. Btw, this thing weights a ton.

T.Tashi

12-05-2006, 05:46 PM

I got my 60 gig PS3 today

Damn you:p

NEO-360

12-05-2006, 08:56 PM

I got my 60 gig PS3 today and I've been playing Resistance. I think, overall, GoW does look better. However, I feel AI is harder in Resistance. I mean, maybe it's because you can't duck behind a wall and somehow know exactly where your enemies are in Resistance like you do in GoW. But, enemies seem to be smarter than the enemies in GoW. I mean, when I played Gow, there were times I was next to the enemies and they didn't even spot me and they kept on shooting at the other guy. In Resistance, it's like eneimes spot me as soon as I enter their field of vision.

Blu-ray drive is pretty nice. It loads the movie pretty fast. Every in movie commands run smoothly. Much different than what PS2's DVD drive was like. Btw, this thing weights a ton.

Congradulations on snagging one.:17:

slade

12-05-2006, 10:15 PM

I got my 60 gig PS3 today

Damn, how'd you manage that? Personally, I'm going to wait till march. Hopefully, the various issues that have cropped up so far will at least be somewhat ironed out by then.

ilnadmy

12-05-2006, 11:00 PM

I went to an electronics store next to my house yesterday to snoop around for HDTV, and found two boxes sitting there on the shelf: 20 gig and 60 gig PS3's.

I started drooling a little, but then I looked at the price tags:

20 gig: 450 BD ($1190)
60 gig: 550 BD ($1455)

I zipped my pants back up and walked away. Talk about daylight robbery. Scary thing is, this is the retail price of PS3's here until the official PAL PS3's drop in March. And even when those drop, the NTSC is still not going to change price. Thing is, I want an NTSC since I travel between here and the US. Guess I have to wait until I get back stateside before I can snag one without feeling like I was voluntarily mugged.

Zilla Man

12-05-2006, 11:19 PM

ilnadmy

12-05-2006, 11:29 PM

Heh, I study in Philly, but I'm taking a year off to get some work experience. I'm going back to Philly in May, which is why this flurry of next-gen console releases comes at a bad time for me.

Officially, this area is a PAL territory, but pretty much everyone uses NTSC. So stores here import consoles from the US, and then mark them up like 300%. Same with games. That makes life quite difficult for me, as most sites won't ship games internationally (with the exception of www.gamesuniverse.com), and NO site will ship an NTSC PS3 internationally.

*sigh*

That's why I was asking Ocelot if it's true that the PS3 is region-free and can play games from anywhere. That would make it simpler for me to just buy a PAL PS3 for the official price, and still play NTSC USA games while I'm in the US.

Zilla Man

12-05-2006, 11:33 PM

ilnadmy

12-06-2006, 12:42 AM

Haha no, not England. I'm in Bahrain, which is this tiny island off the coast of Saudi Arabia.

It's more well-known as the place where Michael Jackson currently calls home...

Mochan

12-06-2006, 02:57 AM

I hear you, Il. There is one and only one unit of a PS3 here in my area right now, it's going for 75,000php or about $1,500 -- and it's the tard pack. I'm in Philly... the Phillipines. ;)

ilnadmy

12-06-2006, 03:33 AM

Word up! Represent the "ill"-adelphia!

...or the "ill"-ipines, in your case.

Gadfly2317

12-06-2006, 08:13 AM

ilnadmy

12-06-2006, 09:37 AM

reasons #125 and #126 for Ps3 doom and gloom: Japanese launch see's four times as many Wii's sold. But that's not the kicker. . . there were more manufactured. The kicker: Wii's software attach rate was double that of Ps3.

http://palgn.com.au/article.php?title=Wii+attach+rate+double+that+of+P S3+in+Japan&id=6139&sid=3e92edb15150a00fc2283adc0effee6e
That's because a lot of the PS3's were bought for the sole purpose of being sold online on eBay.

The Wii's attach rate is 2. That means the PS3's attach rate is 1. "Double" the attach rate indeed. 75% of the games purchased with the Wii were Zelda anyway.

Gadfly2317

12-06-2006, 12:41 PM

That's because a lot of the PS3's were bought for the sole purpose of being sold online on eBay.

The Wii's attach rate is 2. That means the PS3's attach rate is 1. "Double" the attach rate indeed. 75% of the games purchased with the Wii were Zelda anyway.

I don't buy the "ebay" resale crap though. You'd think someone stupid enough to pay $1500 for a Ps3 online would be wealthy enough to buy a couple games with it, right? Or is the Ps3 just some bling guys are wearing around their neck like one of Flavor-Flav's clocks?

Zilla Man

12-06-2006, 10:13 PM

Haha no, not England. I'm in Bahrain, which is this tiny island off the coast of Saudi Arabia.

It's more well-known as the place where Michael Jackson currently calls home...

Wow. Yeah, I know what Bahrain is 9mostly because of Michael Jackson). If you're a native that's awesome! :thumbsup: Because it means that VGR is truly an international community (I'm looking at you, Mochan) !:D

ilnadmy

12-06-2006, 11:16 PM

I don't buy the "ebay" resale crap though. You'd think someone stupid enough to pay $1500 for a Ps3 online would be wealthy enough to buy a couple games with it, right? Or is the Ps3 just some bling guys are wearing around their neck like one of Flavor-Flav's clocks?
The attach rate is games bought ALONGSIDE THE PURCHASE OF THE CONSOLE. If you buy it off eBay, then you're not buying games alongside your purchase of the console, are you?

Wow. Yeah, I know what Bahrain is 9mostly because of Michael Jackson). If you're a native that's awesome! Because it means that VGR is truly an international community (I'm looking at you, Mochan) !

Yeah I am a native, so add one more country to the VGR veteran list. :thumbsup:

Zilla Man

12-09-2006, 03:47 AM

According to Wikipedia, I'm correct on one count and incorrect on the other.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resident_Evil_4

This article states that Capcom announced RE4 for PS2 on October 31, 2004, but if you recall they released RE4 on the Cube in January of 2005.

It does state that the overall sales for RE4 totaled over 3 million across all platforms, and that PS2 accounted for 1.8 million of those sales, but the source link doesn't look entirely legit.

Wikipedia has been known to have incorrect info, as we all know.

I can't account for REmake, but logically one could argue that because of the PS2 RE4 announcement BEFORE the release of the Cube version, it sabotaged any possible system sales. As we all know, there isn't much point in buying a console for a game if you can play it on the system you already own.

Actually, Trebor, you were right.:thumbsup: Unlike some VGR members - *cough* Xbots *cough, cough* - I have no problem admitting when I'm wrong (after all it only happens once ina blue moon).:rolleyes:

I found this link on IGN:

http://ps2.ign.com/articles/562/562368p1.html

So they did have it in development before they shipped the NGC version.

I couldn't read the whole Wikipedia entry because I'm currently playing through the game and didn't want to risk spoilers.:eek:

BTW, RE4 is definitely a masterpiece. It really makes me want to pick up a Cube or a Wii to play all those great Ninty games I missed out last gen. I'm probably just going to wait until the end of 2007 to see if there's a price drop on Wii.