I finally played Gears of War yesterday.

[ilnadmy]

Man oh man oh man. My friend brought over his 360 yesterday with a copy of Gears of War that he borrowed from his cousin. We plugged everything in, then had to scrounge around the house for two AA batteries because the ones in his second controller were dead. After finding some batteries, we started playing co-op starting at the third level (the underground level).

Wow. Just wow. The first thing that struck me was the graphics. I don't have a HDTV, and so I expected 360 and PS3 not to look too good on those, but I realized that next-gen is next-gen on ANY television. The graphics are ridiculous. There's so much detail both in the surroundings and the enemies (not to mention the marines themselves). The blood is a little unrealistic, but still this is the first game that I've played that actually looked next-gen.

The gameplay itself is what takes the cake, however. Going from cover to cover, popping to spray the enemy with a few bullets before ducking back down is just plain exhilarating. The reload system is awesome too, where you'll actually be swearing when you get it wrong and the clip jams (you need to press reload once, and a moving tab will start below the gun's picture...you need to press reload again to stop it inside a certain area, otherwise the clip jams). And the game is HARD! We played on the easiest setting, and we still got our asses kicked quite a few times. I, surprisingly, died a lot less than he did, but it was still ridiculously awesome playing the game.

Would I buy a 360 for this game? Maybe. I read a rumor on IGN that Gears might be coming to the PC. If so, then I would probably get it for that (I would need a few upgrades to my video card and RAM first though :smilewinkgrin:). If I was on the edge regarding whether to buy a 360 or PS3, then yeah I'd spring for the 'box just for that game. Seeing as how I'm pretty dead-set on getting a PS3 though, I'll be holding out to see what other games are released on the 360 that take my fancy. As it stands, Gears of War is a monster of a game which really does show off the 360's capabilities. Apparently Rainbow Six Vegas has a similar feel to Gears in terms of stop-and-pop and the cover, so maybe that'll hold me over until something really amazing comes out on PS3.

[Mochan]

I hope the game is First Person though in the PC version.Though I guess that woudl defeat the purpose of the hide and cover stuff.

[ilnadmy]

Yeah just a bit...

[Gadfly2317]

Posts like this are system sellers. Good post.

[GameLegend]

I am going to play GOW after my statistics exam. I heard unbelievable things about that game, but just one point that needs to be discussed: 10 hrs of gameplay. They made it hard so u can continue playing it. My buddies finished it in one all nighter, started at 10pm.

But i also heard the gameplay is so great, u wanna play it again and again. But really guys, is that where we are at this point? Graphics, Development costs Vs. Hours of gameplay.

Just check out what Sin Episodes and that Half life 2 episdoes or something. Are more small bit games goign to be released in response to good graphics?

[Cuddly Knife]

Sure, it's 10 hours of gameplay, but 0 load times, almost no cut scenes, and no backtracking/being lost. It's just action, action, action. Plus, XBOX Live multi-player, Online co-op. offline co-op. offline multi-player, you get a lot from this game.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I don't have a HDTV, and so I expected 360 and PS3 not to look too good on those, I realized that next-gen is next-gen on ANY television.

Thank you. I've always felt that it's the devs that will make a game look next-gen, not what tv the game is played on.

I think the game will take more than 10 hours. I've been going at a slower pace than I'm sure the reviewers have, and I've been looking for those COG (?) tags as well. I'm up to 21 of 30 so far.

[Mochan]

10 hours isn't really an issue; the Metal Gear and ZOE games were all about 10 hours apiece as well, I never complained.

[ilnadmy]

I don't know how many acts the game has, but me and my friend blew through 3 acts in the span of 2.5 hours. We were playing co-op, so that probably made it a little easier, but still. If the game only has 7 or 8 acts, then it can probably be finished in a lot less than 10 hours.

[Cuddly Knife]

It has 5, and the fifth one is short. But the fourth one is long.

And I read that playing co-op is easier, and should be played on a harder difficulty than what you would normally play in single-player.

[ilnadmy]

Damn, only 5? Hmm...that means I've already seen most of the game. Well, I hear Gears is going to be a trilogy, so at least the next ones are going to be longer (hopefully).

Plus, I can always wait to play it on my PC :devil:

[Mochan]

Something for us to Co-op on the PC board then!

[ilnadmy]

Ooh that's an interesting concept actually. AND, if Microsoft's Live Anywhere thing comes through, then we PC gamers can band together to kick the crap out of the console bots to show them the true superiority of mouse and keyboard!

I get shivers just thinking about it...

[Gadfly2317]

But really guys, is that where we are at this point? Graphics, Development costs Vs. Hours of gameplay.

Just check out what Sin Episodes and that Half life 2 episdoes or something. Are more small bit games goign to be released in response to good graphics?

Maybe with all those hi-res textures and being the first game to look truly next gen, that was all the game they could squeeze onto a dvd. I just read that Blue Dragon for 360 is coming on THREE DvD's. A first year game already overflowing onto three disks. Not a good sign.

[Renzatic Gear]

Ooh that's an interesting concept actually. AND, if Microsoft's Live Anywhere thing comes through, then we PC gamers can band together to kick the crap out of the console bots to show them the true superiority of mouse and keyboard!

I get shivers just thinking about it...

If that happens, I will so be there. I'd go out of my way to headshot TMG and Glock every chance I get. :D

"Mouse suks mouse suks why I keep getting deaded up? WAHHHH"

[joquito]

Ooh that's an interesting concept actually. AND, if Microsoft's Live Anywhere thing comes through, then we PC gamers can band together to kick the crap out of the console bots to show them the true superiority of mouse and keyboard!

I get shivers just thinking about it...

Most likely it will be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. My Mouse/Keyboard adapter for the XBox gave no advantage on Halo. It didn't even give an advantage for games on the Dreamcast.

[folken001]

Most likely it will be dumbed down to the lowest common denominator. My Mouse/Keyboard adapter for the XBox gave no advantage on Halo. It didn't even give an advantage for games on the Dreamcast.
You aren't used to it. So you would be a bad comparison.

[folken001]

You aren't used to it. So you would be a bad comparison.
I beat GoW recently. It's a decent game. Graphics is awesome. Last boss was annoying.

I also tried Versus. I think it's kinda retarded how there are one shot kill weapons.

[Superior Beatslayer]

If that happens, I will so be there. I'd go out of my way to headshot TMG and Glock every chance I get. :D

"Mouse suks mouse suks why I keep getting deaded up? WAHHHH"

Hah! Renzatic I got your number already bud!

[joquito]

You aren't used to it. So you would be a bad comparison.


Excuse me?!?!? I've gamed with a Keyboard and mouse for as long as anyone on this board. Console shooters are coded for less sensitivity in the X/Y axis. The human thumb has less precise movement than the wrist/elbow/shoulder combination.

[folken001]

Excuse me?!?!? I've gamed with a Keyboard and mouse for as long as anyone on this board. Console shooters are coded for less sensitivity in the X/Y axis. The human thumb has less precise movement than the wrist/elbow/shoulder combination.

9 out of 10 times, someone with mouse/keyboard will headshot you first. Less sensitivity due to less precise movement of human thumb kinda tells you that it offers less precision.

You may have played FPS with keyboard/mouse, you sure don't sound like it.

[Renzatic Gear]

Hah! Renzatic I got your number already bud!

Yeah! I remember smearing you and your two friends in UT2k4 CTF. It was 3 against 1 in CTF, yet I STILL KICKED YOUR ASS!

Actually, I'm itching for a game of UT again. Since I haven't played it in over year or so, I probably suck now...so you might have a chance. Wanna play?

[Mochan]

Maybe with all those hi-res textures and being the first game to look truly next gen, that was all the game they could squeeze onto a dvd. I just read that Blue Dragon for 360 is coming on THREE DvD's. A first year game already overflowing onto three disks. Not a good sign.

Not really that bad a sign. This is a JRPG we're talking about. Which games were prime offenders of being overly multi-CD back in the PS1 days? You just know that 80% of those 3 DVDs are cutscenes.

[ilnadmy]

Mochan! You're undermining our anti-Xbox campaign here! Enough with the thinking!

[Mochan]

Doh, what am I doing? Ken's gonna fire me at this rate!

[joquito]

9 out of 10 times, someone with mouse/keyboard will headshot you first. Less sensitivity due to less precise movement of human thumb kinda tells you that it offers less precision.

You may have played FPS with keyboard/mouse, you sure don't sound like it.


Look whose talking, Mr. Final Phallic. You should learn to read the posts. Most console games give no advantage to Keyboard/ Mouse. PC games are different, they typically provide much higher sensitivity for the input device. Go into the control options of a FPS and you will see sliders for the X/Y axis sensitivity. The very low settings on a PC game are similar to the high settings on a console shooter.

Everyone seems to forget that many console shooters have assisted aim, Remember playing Fortress against others using Aimbot. The developers will most likely try to level the playing field for console gamers, by using assisted aim or automatically lowering the sensitivity of Keyboard, and mouse controls.

[PapaSmurf]

Ooh that's an interesting concept actually. AND, if Microsoft's Live Anywhere thing comes through, then we PC gamers can band together to kick the crap out of the console bots to show them the true superiority of mouse and keyboard!

I get shivers just thinking about it...

Hey I'm down to whoop the crap out of some xbotx PC style. Is rainbow six interconsole online?

People need to start taking after Square-Enix. They got 3 platforms playing together, hell they've had it going since 2002

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Jumping the gun people. I'm willing to bet anything that once live anywhere get's here. That MS is probably going to require PC versions of the game to use 360 controllers.

[Gadfly2317]

Not really that bad a sign. This is a JRPG we're talking about. Which games were prime offenders of being overly multi-CD back in the PS1 days? You just know that 80% of those 3 DVDs are cutscenes.

It's a JRPG, it's gonna have lots of cutscenes. But JRPG's aren't the only kind of games that try to tell a big story in a big game, and move the story along with some breathtaking cinematic sequences.

It just kinda sucks that the FIRST JRPG for the Xbox takes up three disks. Sufficient room for epic content won't be a problem on Ps3. It clearly is on 360 with its 10 hour games and it's three-disk RPG's.

I mean, you're not an Xbot so I'll let you off the hook. But ALL xbots and Ps2 fans ripped on the GC for having less storage, more compression of textures and sound, and needing two disks for many of its games.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

It's a JRPG, it's gonna have lots of cutscenes. But JRPG's aren't the only kind of games that try to tell a big story in a big game, and move the story along with some breathtaking cinematic sequences.

It just kinda sucks that the FIRST JRPG for the Xbox takes up three disks. Sufficient room for epic content won't be a problem on Ps3. It clearly is on 360 with its 10 hour games and it's three-disk RPG's.

I mean, you're not an Xbot so I'll let you off the hook. But ALL xbots and Ps2 fans ripped on the GC for having less storage, more compression of textures and sound, and needing two disks for many of its games.


You would've had a point if this game was released before Oblivion. But all the content in oblivion fit on 1 disc and this game needs 3? It's Hi def cutscenes and personally that's a turn off to me.

I'm not saying that more storage is a bad thing but this is the norm from Japanese devs and it sucks.

[Mochan]

Come to think of it, I wasn't among the rippers but it annoyed me that RE4 on GC was 2 disks.

Now regardless of what you think of Japanese games, there's something to be learned here: so Japanese devs *will* tend to cram more content (cutscene or what not) than you can normally fit on a DVD. That means that it is now even less likely that Japanese support will migrate to the 360 -- and pretty much all of us can agree that this is a key thing MS needs to really win this generation.

I think Sony fans can rest easy that most Japanese devs will still prefer to work on the PS3.

As for low sensitivity mice settings, that's not really as big a problem as you think. Low mouse sensitivy settings actually increase your accuracy. High sensitivity reduces your accuracy. You just need to move your arm more at lower settings. I usually play at 6 sensitivty in Counterstrike, but I had a friend who played at 2. His weapon of choice was the Arctic sniper rifle.


As for MS requiring PC FPS to use Xbox 360 controllers, not gonna happen. No, just no. Lots of gamers buy dedicated gaming mice that cost hundreds of dollars. Requiring this crop to use a gamepad to play is gonna be a PR nightmare.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Come to think of it, I wasn't among the rippers but it annoyed me that RE4 on GC was 2 disks.

Now regardless of what you think of Japanese games, there's something to be learned here: so Japanese devs *will* tend to cram more content (cutscene or what not) than you can normally fit on a DVD. That means that it is now even less likely that Japanese support will migrate to the 360 -- and pretty much all of us can agree that this is a key thing MS needs to really win this generation.

I think Sony fans can rest easy that most Japanese devs will still prefer to work on the PS3.




You are reaching. If tech differences mattered that much more of them would have supported the orignial Xbox. What about the Wii? Blu ray may offere more storage but I doubt if anyway that it will make up a devs mind wheather or not to support it. It's going to come down to what it always come down with them and that's market penetration. Blue Dragon is a first Party game and MS has at least 2 more 1st party RPG's coming one by level 5 (Dark Cloud, DQ8) If these games can make enough of a dent to make it worthwhile for publishers you will see more Japanese support.

[Cuddly Knife]

I had no problem with the Game Cube using multiple disks for RE4, because it was such a long game, and there was little loading during the actual game. Come on, you only had to change the disc once. I did have a problem with RE4 on the PS2 though. Sure, it was on one disc, but there was a lot more loading going on for some reason, and that ruined it way more than changing a disc near the end of the game.

Now, if the game is like Riven: The Sequel to Myst on the PS2, where you changed cd's every time you wanted to go to a new island. 4 CDs, 4 islands. Grrr.

[Gadfly2317]

You would've had a point if this game was released before Oblivion. But all the content in oblivion fit on 1 disc and this game needs 3? It's Hi def cutscenes and personally that's a turn off to me.

I'm not saying that more storage is a bad thing but this is the norm from Japanese devs and it sucks.

If it were only JRPG's cut-scenes being the storage problem. But it's not. Large levels, uncompressed audio and large amounts of hi-res textures are the reason a game like Lair couldn't fit on a single 360 DvD. And I'm with you. . .too many cutscenes are a turn off, but the effective use of gorgeous cutscenes to move the story along (while giving your hands a break for a few minutes) can and should be a part of any ambitious game that also tells a story.

And its definitely going to be something that the 360 will struggle with. . . in the "Era of Hi-Definition Gaming" Microsoft really screwed the pooch when it comes to one of the things Hi-def needs: Storage.

[joquito]

Gadfly-"Unconpressed audio"

CDs use compression, even SACD, and DVD-A used compression. So the idea of the PS3 encoding games with "uncompressed audio" is total BS, or an excuse to use extra space on the BD discs. "Uncompressed audio" is just like 1080p -the emperor's new clothes.

[NEO-360]

Look whose talking, Mr. Final Phallic. You should learn to read the posts. Most console games give no advantage to Keyboard/ Mouse. PC games are different, they typically provide much higher sensitivity for the input device. Go into the control options of a FPS and you will see sliders for the X/Y axis sensitivity. The very low settings on a PC game are similar to the high settings on a console shooter.

Everyone seems to forget that many console shooters have assisted aim, Remember playing Fortress against others using Aimbot. The developers will most likely try to level the playing field for console gamers, by using assisted aim or automatically lowering the sensitivity of Keyboard, and mouse controls.

You have to forgive Folken joquito. If anything posted doesnt have anything to do with Sony he dont see that well. 001 never reads post before he replies most of the time anyway. But we are all used to that.

I find it rather interesting that he has played GOW for the 360 and hasnt played Resistance on the PS3 yet. He claimed GOW was easy? LOL! I bet hes lying between his teeth on that one.:cool:

GOW so far appears to be the game to beat until some of the other kick ass games like Halo 3 and Lost Planet arrives. Resistance on the PS3 is about the only shooter worthy of mentioning thus far on the PS3.

[Superior Beatslayer]

Yeah! I remember smearing you and your two friends in UT2k4 CTF. It was 3 against 1 in CTF, yet I STILL KICKED YOUR ASS!

Actually, I'm itching for a game of UT again. Since I haven't played it in over year or so, I probably suck now...so you might have a chance. Wanna play?

Yeah sure, i'll try the 360 controller and see how good I fair.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Would Blue Dragon need as many discs if the devs would use the in-game engine for cutscenes?

[Gadfly2317]

Would Blue Dragon need as many discs if the devs would use the in-game engine for cutscenes?

No. But then, the pre-rendered looks really cool; it's nice to sit back and enjoy the dazzling visual feast you've earned while giving your hands a break for a few minutes. In-game cutscenes; I mean the'yre gonna have to be considered "awesomer" by xbots, because you don't have the storage space for hi-rez textures, the voice acting and all the other stuff you need, and still have room for any gorgeous cinematic sequences.

And we'll say it again, just the content alone on two levels of Lair are too big for a 360 disk, so this can't all be blamed on the hated pre-rendered cinematics. Hated because Ps3 will do them better.

[folken001]

Look whose talking, Mr. Final Phallic. You should learn to read the posts. Most console games give no advantage to Keyboard/ Mouse. PC games are different, they typically provide much higher sensitivity for the input device. Go into the control options of a FPS and you will see sliders for the X/Y axis sensitivity. The very low settings on a PC game are similar to the high settings on a console shooter.

Everyone seems to forget that many console shooters have assisted aim, Remember playing Fortress against others using Aimbot. The developers will most likely try to level the playing field for console gamers, by using assisted aim or automatically lowering the sensitivity of Keyboard, and mouse controls.


What the hell are you talking about? I've tried it out before on DC. My friend with house/keyboard whacked my the other friend in Quake 22-3. It was not even a challenge. What kind of advantages are we talking about here? Just the fact that you can aim faster with the mouse and keyboard is an advantage. You were the one who pointed out you didn't feel the advantage in Halo, did you not? Try this out yourself, use your control to aim at someone's head in Halo and stay aimed while you are moving. Then try to do that with mouse and keybard.

[joquito]

What the hell are you talking about? I've tried it out before on DC. My friend with house/keyboard whacked my the other friend in Quake 22-3. It was not even a challenge. What kind of advantages are we talking about here? Just the fact that you can aim faster with the mouse and keyboard is an advantage. You were the one who pointed out you didn't feel the advantage in Halo, did you not? Try this out yourself, use your control to aim at someone's head in Halo and stay aimed while you are moving. Then try to do that with mouse and keybard.


Look here Lad, why don't you shell out a few pennies and buy a SmartJoy frag and try it out for yourself. I am speaking from experience. Your DC argument lacks because the DC controller lacked a 2nd analog stick, so a penis and 2 balls would be easier to control a FPS than the DC controller. As much as I love the DC, FPS were unplayable without a keyboard and mouse unlike consoles today.

[folken001]

Look here Lad, why don't you shell out a few pennies and buy a SmartJoy frag and try it out for yourself. I am speaking from experience. Your DC argument lacks because the DC controller lacked a 2nd analog stick, so a penis and 2 balls would be easier to control a FPS than the DC controller. As much as I love the DC, FPS were unplayable without a keyboard and mouse unlike consoles today.
So with a 2nd analog stick, your thumb would give you more precision? Like it genetic enchance your senses or something? Face it, you can not shoot while moving and maintain the same precision as you would with mouse and keyboard. Hell it's hard to do so running a straight line with a pad.

Your argument is that console programmers didn't give mouse/keyboard like PC programmers did. I am telling you that the way how mouse/keyboard works is an advantage itself over the pad.

[joquito]

So with a 2nd analog stick, your thumb would give you more precision? Like it genetic enchance your senses or something? Face it, you can not shoot while moving and maintain the same precision as you would with mouse and keyboard. Hell it's hard to do so running a straight line with a pad.

Your argument is that console programmers didn't give mouse/keyboard like PC programmers did. I am telling you that the way how mouse/keyboard works is an advantage itself over the pad.


I feel sorry for you that you can't seem to read my posts, but I will counter you point anyhow. Assisted aim in console games make up for the lack of a steady thumb while strafing.

Regarding the DC, consoles today use controllers with 2 thumbsticks, one for strafing the other to look around. The Dreamcast had one thumbstick, so aiming and strafing is limited by the D pad, so saying the keyboard and mouse is better is like saying kobe beef is better than salsbury steak...SO WHAT!!!

Let me dumb it down for you. On the Xbox, there was no inherent advantage to using a keyboard and mouse over the controller, when the games have assisted aim and controls that were of low sensitivity. This may not be the case with Gears of War on Live Anywhere, but if not, console players will shy away from Live and the developers know it; thereby try to level the playing field.

[Mochan]

You are reaching. If tech differences mattered that much more of them would have supported the orignial Xbox.

Huh? Xbox used the same storage media as the PS2. Why would they make the move?

Riven, wow what a bad game. Yeah good thing I never played that piece of turd!




Regarding the DC, consoles today use controllers with 2 thumbsticks, one for strafing the other to look around. The Dreamcast had one thumbstick, so aiming and strafing is limited by the D pad, so saying the keyboard and mouse is better is like saying kobe beef is better than salsbury steak...SO WHAT!!!

Man, you are totally off it. So 2 thumbsticks instead of 1 stick and a pad automatically make today's consoles the equivalent of mouse and keyboard? Uh... NO!

The difference of using a stick over the pad to move around is negligible at best, non-existent at worst. And it certainly does not assist with the aiming of the other thumb at all. Even with aimbot assistance, the aiming capacity still does not add up to the simplicity of using a mouse for the purpose.

And again, low sensitivity doesn't make it harder to aim with a mouse, it makes it easier to aim. It gives you more precision, at the cost of needing to move the mouse and work your arm more. (and yes this is from experience, I've played countless hours in a competitive LAN environment to learn this point). I even bound two keys in my gaming profile at one time to switch sensitivity from high to low whenever I change weapons -- I switch to high sensitivity when using an assault weapon and change to low when sniping. This could be done on PC games and is done by some high-level players who demand the utmost in precision and aiming.

On higher-end gaming mice there is a quick switch button built in to change the sampling rate of the mouse so you can switch from 3 sensitivity settings on the fly from the hardware itself (no software switching needed). This is a feature sought after by some gamers (even professional gamers) as it gives them a slight edge.

So enough with this rubbish about devs "lowering the sensitivity" for PC gamers, it's not gonna help unless they like put in a built in lag everytime you move the mouse so as to make the game unplayable. A good mouse gamer will demolish any thumb boy any day of the week unless there's some uber aimbot and other disadvantages (other than mouse sensitivity) involved.

[ilnadmy]

Booyakasha! And the PC/Xbox flame wars begin. I think M$ is onto something with this Live Anywhere...

[Mochan]

They were thinking of us aces here at SysWars. More fodder to the fire!!!

[joquito]

Huh? Xbox used the same storage media as the PS2. Why would they make the move?

Riven, wow what a bad game. Yeah good thing I never played that piece of turd!





Man, you are totally off it. So 2 thumbsticks instead of 1 stick and a pad automatically make today's consoles the equivalent of mouse and keyboard? Uh... NO!

The difference of using a stick over the pad to move around is negligible at best, non-existent at worst. And it certainly does not assist with the aiming of the other thumb at all. Even with aimbot assistance, the aiming capacity still does not add up to the simplicity of using a mouse for the purpose.

And again, low sensitivity doesn't make it harder to aim with a mouse, it makes it easier to aim. It gives you more precision, at the cost of needing to move the mouse and work your arm more. (and yes this is from experience, I've played countless hours in a competitive LAN environment to learn this point). I even bound two keys in my gaming profile at one time to switch sensitivity from high to low whenever I change weapons -- I switch to high sensitivity when using an assault weapon and change to low when sniping. This could be done on PC games and is done by some high-level players who demand the utmost in precision and aiming.

On higher-end gaming mice there is a quick switch button built in to change the sampling rate of the mouse so you can switch from 3 sensitivity settings on the fly from the hardware itself (no software switching needed). This is a feature sought after by some gamers (even professional gamers) as it gives them a slight edge.

So enough with this rubbish about devs "lowering the sensitivity" for PC gamers, it's not gonna help unless they like put in a built in lag everytime you move the mouse so as to make the game unplayable. A good mouse gamer will demolish any thumb boy any day of the week unless there's some uber aimbot and other disadvantages (other than mouse sensitivity) involved.


Given you are an hour late and a buck short, Your dribble still doesn't add anything regarding developers trying to make a make a level playing field, so that controller user will even want to play against K/M users.

[Mochan]

Pride. Well if they can't, then I guess we mousers will have to pull our punches to give you boys a chance!

[NEO-360]

Some people simply love using the keyboard & mouse more than the plain ole joystick. Especially when it comes to shooters.:cool:

[Gadfly2317]

Some people simply love using the keyboard & mouse more than the plain ole joystick. Especially when it comes to shooters.:cool:

I don't think they were debating the subjective nature of love, but the objective fact that a mouse is a MUCH faster and more precise way to aim than a slow-assed thumb stick. You can love which ever set-up you want, it doesn't change that fact.

[NEO-360]

So with a 2nd analog stick, your thumb would give you more precision? Like it genetic enchance your senses or something? Face it, you can not shoot while moving and maintain the same precision as you would with mouse and keyboard. Hell it's hard to do so running a straight line with a pad.

Your argument is that console programmers didn't give mouse/keyboard like PC programmers did. I am telling you that the way how mouse/keyboard works is an advantage itself over the pad.

Different strokes for different folks 001. For some the mouse/ keyboard thing works perfectly. For others the joystick rules the world. And in some cases there are gamers that can use both extremely well. Silly milk drinker Trix is for kids.:p

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

And we'll say it again, just the content alone on two levels of Lair are too big for a 360 disk, so this can't all be blamed on the hated pre-rendered cinematics. Hated because Ps3 will do them better.

This is Total BS. MS is a software company and they have a very high interest in compression techniques. This isn't Nintendo.

Plus I simply don't believe Factor 5. Sure a next Gen disc would have been better but it isn't going to be that crippling of a blow.

As for uncompressed Sound The Ghost Recon Series is the best sounding (overall sound effects) games I've ever played. I honestly don't see it getting much better even if I went out and bought a 7.1 system. Talking about getting to a point of diminishing returns we definitely are there with sound technology.

[Gadfly2317]

This is Total BS. MS is a software company and they have a very high interest in compression techniques. This isn't Nintendo.

Plus I simply don't believe Factor 5. Sure a next Gen disc would have been better but it isn't going to be that crippling of a blow.

As for uncompressed Sound The Ghost Recon Series is the best sounding (overall sound effects) games I've ever played. I honestly don't see it getting much better even if I went out and bought a 7.1 system. Talking about getting to a point of diminishing returns we definitely are there with sound technology.

I don't get what you are saying is total BS? The first JRPG on the 360, Blue Dragon, requires 3 disks, and Ps3 has numerous games on the horizon of a size and scope that won't fit on a DvD. . . which is what 360 uses.

I'm loving seeing last-gen's xbox tech whores suddenly talking about the "diminishing returns" of technology now that the MS system is inferior to the Sony system on every front: Wifi, B/C, processor, standard harddrive, control innovation, HDMI, much larger storage media, sound support, and hi-def movie playback.

[Fivespot]

As for uncompressed Sound The Ghost Recon Series is the best sounding (overall sound effects) games I've ever played. I honestly don't see it getting much better even if I went out and bought a 7.1 system. Talking about getting to a point of diminishing returns we definitely are there with sound technology.

I used to think the same way until I bought an HD-DVD player and started using DolbyTrueHD sound which is uncompressed. Sounds even better than you'd imagine compared to DolbyDigital via an optical connection.

Can't speak about PS3's sound but this is my experience with uncompressed high end audio.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

I don't get what you are saying is total BS? The first JRPG on the 360, Blue Dragon, requires 3 disks, and Ps3 has numerous games on the horizon of a size and scope that won't fit on a DvD. . . which is what 360 uses.

What I think is B.S. is factor Five saying that they can't get 2 levels on a Single DVD. So what they want people to believe is that 2 levels of this game holds more data than all of Oblivion? I'm calling it B.S. just from an economical standpoint. They are going to develop those kind of assests for 2 levels? I guess this game has no budget:rolleyes: The real question here is whether or not uncompressed Data like what Level 5 has to be using to make these ridiculous claims and Insomniac as well is actually going to giver you higher fidelity.


I'm loving seeing last-gen's xbox tech whores suddenly talking about the "diminishing returns" of technology now that the MS system is inferior to the Sony system on every front: Wifi, B/C, processor, standard harddrive, control innovation, HDMI, much larger storage media, sound support, and hi-def movie playback.

Ok let me break this down to you. Last Gen me and a bunch others felt like the Xbox had better games ok. Get it the system had better games! The library may not have been the largest or most varied but the best game generally were on the Xbox. This is my and a few others on this board opinion. We've mentioned that several times over. Now with better games they also looked and played better.

Now this gen Sony's tech advantage isn't the same because to date it doesn't corralete into better games. The games so far are actually running better on the360. Last gen games could not be done as well graphically because of the limited amount of Memory (and this is more important than anything when it comes to tech specs on graphics) this gen it's not the case. Both systems are even both with memory. Now the other things you are talking about lets break them down.

HDD. Well to get even the cheaper budget PS3 it's more than Xbox 360 so it's not even an advantage. The problem will come in games being coded for the lowest common denominater (games with HDD's) In over a year on the shelves is there one game you can name that has suffered because of this? Let's go back to last gen What Multiplat game suffered on the PS2/GC because of a lack of a HDD? Zero.

Wifi. and advantage? It's a freaking internet connection sure it would be better if it came out the box but you can by damn near in wifi adapter of the market and it works. How does the Xbox 360 suffer in this especially when it comes with an ethernet port?

Sound Support? WTF are you talking about the 360 does 5.1 and I'm not positive it can't do 7.1 there isn't a dedicate sound card on either platform but the 360 has 3 real cores and I don't see why they couldn't support it if they didn't want too. This is not the same has having 5.1 in every game to having surround sound in no more than 10 games at the most over a lifetime.

Control innovation vs lack of rumble. Pick one it's a preference either way. Plus the 360 has more ergnomical controller. But if you want to take points for no motion sensing fine. You get half a point.

Much larger storage media. True this is an advantage. But again like last gen this is not something that can't be over come by multiple disc. May not be as inconvient but it's not like last gen where you never saw a game on the PS2 with visual fidelty of something like Chronicles of Riddick, Oddworld Strangers Wrath and numerous others.

HDMI and Hi def movie playback. Sony doesn't even ship with componet cables so basically you are talking perphials but whatever the latest up date allows for 1080p in movie an games and I can't believe that MS wont release a usb HDMI cable. Hi def movie playback well since you are talking perphiales there is the 360 HDDVD drive which IGN called the best one on the market and from day one you could stream HI Def movies from your PC to your 360 (Media Center PC).


Bottom line when it comes to games and graphics the differences this gen aren't as pronounced as they were last gen. And if you like me and other prefer the games on the Xbox the 360 is a easier choice. Even though it doesn't have as many "features" as the PS3

[Glockstar]

I don't get what you are saying is total BS? The first JRPG on the 360, Blue Dragon, requires 3 disks, and Ps3 has numerous games on the horizon of a size and scope that won't fit on a DvD. . . which is what 360 uses.

Hey dipstick, you need to start getting your fracking facts straight. You've been nothing but a fountain of misinformation for several weeks now. You're trying to make arguments, but your posts are total throwaway crap, as you can't even get one single premise straight. First your memory is for sheet, and now, apparently, you're into lying.

The first JRPG for the 360 is Enchanted Arms. Was Enchanted Arms; the game's been out for several months now.

Second, where on earth did you hear that Blue Dragon requires 3 disks?! Not that it matters anyways. You and your dumbazzed friend Gaming Schizo 78 are the only ones who seem to take issue with that. Nobody cared when the PS1 used them, and nobody cared when the GC used them. But wtf? You're back to making sheet up again?

Lastly, "Ps3 has numerous games on the horizon of a size and scope that won't fit on a DvD". Oh really? Name one.

[ilnadmy]

You should have specified that he's not allowed to mention Lair.

[Mochan]

Different strokes for different folks 001. For some the mouse/ keyboard thing works perfectly. For others the joystick rules the world. And in some cases there are gamers that can use both extremely well. Silly milk drinker Trix is for kids.

As mentioned by Gaddie, you can love or prefer whichever one you want, but intrinsically there is an advantage in using the mouse over a stick because it just works better because of the physical nature of the control input. Even joquito, a stick user through and through, admits that the mouse setup will beat the stick setup in an even match. It's just the nature of the controls, some things just work better at certain tasks. A spoon is a lot easier to use for drinking soup than chopsticks, no matter how much you love chopsticks it won't change this fact.

Yes, a good stick user can beat a poor mouse user, and there are those who can use both setups, but even someone who can play both setups (like ilnadmy) can easily see that he will rack more kills up or otherwise play better using the mouse over the sticks, and in an even match the mouser will come up on top over the stick man.


I'm loving seeing last-gen's xbox tech whores suddenly talking about the "diminishing returns" of technology now that the MS system is inferior to the Sony system on every front: Wifi, B/C, processor, standard harddrive, control innovation, HDMI, much larger storage media, sound support, and hi-def movie playback.

The irony sort of eludes me as I vaguely recall Gaddie and trebor talking up the "diminishing returns" point as well in days past. What I'm loving though is how the XBots, who just last year were adamantly insisting that the 360 had equal if not better tech than the PS3, are now in "diminishing returns" mode and thus pretty much acknowledging the PS3's superior technology.

It's great that Fiveski (one of my fav Xbots) notes that uncompressed sound does sound better; the point of diminishing returns isn't quite there. I still keep buying new sound card after sound card because the difference in sound *is* palpable. True, it's lower on my list of priorities and I am still using my old 5.1 speaker setup that is analogue and "only" 280W RMS but if I had the cash I'd be upgrading to a more sophisticated sound setup.

As for the 2 level BS, yes 2 levels of the game holds more raw data. Not necessarily more content, just more data. Half of Oblivion's DVD was made of sound files of voice overs for the entire game. I get the feeling Lair doesn't have that much speech in it, but since it is using uncompressed audio and all that jazz the total size of its sounds is larger than Oblivion's. Oblivion probably only had about a gig of textures for the entire game. Lair is going to have like a GB of textures for each level, but these textures are going to be sharper, larger, and uncompressed compared to the Oblivion textures; Oblivion may have more textures but as they are compressed and lower in quality, they simply take up less space. Uncompressed data is significantly larger, Renz can give you actual figures for textures, but to illustrate the point look at audio CDs. An audio CD can hold what, about 15 songs of 5 minutes each. That's more or less 700MB of data. If you turn those into MP3s you can fit like 150 5 minute songs onto one CD. While MP3s are very serviceable Audio CDs still sound noticeably better. Is it a diminishing return? Maybe. But the more advanced your sound setup, the more you will notice the difference.

What's so BS about it? Why do I even have to explain this? It's not a difficult concept.


The library may not have been the largest or most varied but the best game generally were on the Xbox. This is my and a few others on this board opinion. We've mentioned that several times over. Now with better games they also looked and played better.

Well I felt the PC had the most varied library, with the best games, and they looked, played, and sounded better.

Now this gen Sony's tech advantage isn't the same because to date it doesn't corralete into better games.

I like how you use the opinion I quote earlier as a proof for this argument. Really slick. And easy to destroy. I like it. XBot's tech advantage last gen didn't correlate to better games either. So no. I don't know if the PS3's tech advantage this time will correlate to better games, but certainly you can't prove this by using your opinion that last gen's Xbox had better games due to the tech advantage then, and that this gen's Sony Tech Ad is not the same as last gen's XBox Tech Ad.

It's true though that the graphics difference so far isn't as pronounced as last gen's, but the diminishing returns argument should not be invoked in this case, it's better to just point out that the power difference between the two systems is not that great. It actually works against your cause to note the effect of diminishing returns; since the returns on getting faster GPUs is "minimal" due to the diminsing returns effect, Sony gets more bang for the buck bumping up the storage space.


Now on to other things:

Last gen games could not be done as well graphically because of the limited amount of Memory (and this is more important than anything when it comes to tech specs on graphics)

Memory is not the defining factor in creating better graphics (not even sure which memory you are referring too). What's more important is the actual tech in the processing unit for the graphics. There were GPUs with twice the memory as others (like the GF6600 256MB) which had double the memory of a Radeon 9800XT, but less than half the performance.



HDD. Well to get even the cheaper budget PS3 it's more than Xbox 360 so it's not even an advantage. The problem will come in games being coded for the lowest common denominater (games with HDD's) In over a year on the shelves is there one game you can name that has suffered because of this? Let's go back to last gen What Multiplat game suffered on the PS2/GC because of a lack of a HDD? Zero.

LOL, how many times have you XBots harped the advantages of the onboard HDD and how this allowed Xbox games to load faster due to caching? I also don't understand the first sentence of your paragraph above; what just because a PS3 w/ HDD is more expensive, its tech advantage of having a HDD is nullified? Huh? So if a Ferrari is more expensive than a Picanto, it doesn't run faster just because it's more expensive?

[GameLegend]

LATE in reply, Explorer timed out a bunch of time:

Thumbstick and mouse/keyboard debate.

Like many of you, i have played lots of FPS. I have also played Unreal on PC and Dreamcast. Kicked ass in both, got all the trophies. So being able to play BOTH games in 2 different platforms, this is what i have to say in terms of control and precision.

In the Unreal T, Dreamcast, The thumb stick mainly controlled where the player went. The Y,X,A,B buttons were incorporated.
Y looked up, A looked down
X strafed left, B strafed right.
Thumbstick just controlled movement, kinda like the nunchuck.

Aiming wize on dreamcast, you hardly ever used Y/A to look up or down. WHY? Cuz there was unbelieveable amount of aimbot incorporated in the game. It came to the point where if i had any gun, and i pointed say 4 head lengths away form the person and shot, guess what, it HIT the person.

So in the game, all it involved was u spot a preson, u strafe and shoot. No need to really aim, cuz the aimbot did the rest. The controls were to faulty to use in FPS without a aimbot.

Now u have a mouse, on a PC same game, yes u have lots of percision, but this time nothing to help u. Much more fun, the way it should be in consoles.

Who would win, if DC Unreal connected to Pc Unreal?
Sorry to say, Dreamcast person. Cuz they can get a headshot sooo easily, not need to 'point' and shoot, it was more like 'spot' and shoot.
Unless the PC gamer was super elite, and i mean elite.
But common, its more fun with keyboard and mouse than going cheap and having aimbots to help your sorry ass.

Keep in mind this is Unreal, only one game. How aimbots are incorportated in games varies. I'm not sure if there are aim bots in say Halo 2, but if there were, they were much dumb down than the ones in Unreal cuz it was pathetic playing that game.

So the verdict? It varies how the company programs the aim bots for consoles.

[Mochan]

There are PC games with aimbots, too. Rainbow Six had one mean aimbot. But usually these cannot be enabled for multiplayer. Anyway playing with aimbots is pathetic but a necessary evil for gamepad users.

[Microsoft Babyeater]

Gears of War is mankinds greatest accomplishment. It is through an act of pure will that MS and Epic have wrought this game from the strongest of irons. It is a gift that they have bestoed upon you, the proletariat, for consumption.

Appreciate the gesture. Through our good graces, you shall have many more.

XBOX360 EXCLUSIVE! XBOX360 EXCLUSIVE! :salute:

[Renzatic Gear]

Man, this place gets creepier day by day.

[Zilla Man]

The first JRPG for the 360 is Enchanted Arms. Was Enchanted Arms; the game's been out for several months now.

Yeah, Gaddy, you know, the one that's selling like ass and has a whopping 72% at GameRankings...:rolleyes: So he forgot about it.

Second, where on earth did you hear that Blue Dragon requires 3 disks?!

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/747/747459p2.html

"Perhaps another new hardware release will be needed in the next year as the hard drive is already proving to be too small. With the huge number of Marketplace downloads and the newly released Video Marketplace, managing your disc space is already an issue. It's only going to get worse. On a somewhat related note, the gloom and doom forecasts of running out of space from using a DVD format for Xbox 360 games haven't proven true…yet. Blue Dragon will ship on 3 DVDs in Japan. Will this become the norm? Time will tell."

Summary: The unreliable consoles have been a big letdown for far too many consumers in the first year to say that the hardware has been a great success. While many of the peripherals have been cut from a sturdier mold, we're still waiting for the games to make them worth purchasing. The power of the console has been proven, but the hard drive and DVD format may not be as future proofed as the fancy innards."

Lastly, "Ps3 has numerous games on the horizon of a size and scope that won't fit on a DvD". Oh really? Name one

Well here's one that's already here:

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/729/729630p4.html

"Ted Price, Founder & CEO: It would have been very, very difficult to create Resistance on any other platform. First, this game requires an incredible amount of processing power to support the large number of moving characters and objects in the levels. Every one of our characters has sophisticated AI and navigation routines running in the background. Plus, every object -- including characters -- has to access our physics and collision systems constantly. And, of course, I'm ignoring all the other processes that have to occur simultaneously to create immersive, believable environments. What a game like Resistance requires is parallel processing on a massive scale and fortunately the Cell's SPUs give us this. We can take complex and expensive systems and move them onto the SPUs, which are extremely good at number-crunching. When these systems run in parallel it means we can do more per frame and that means more detail in the game.

Second, the game requires more than 20 gigabytes of storage space, which means that the only viable storage medium for us is Blu-ray. We could not have fit this game on a DVD or a HD-DVD. So, yet another reason that the game could only have been created on the PlayStation 3."


and here's one that's "on the horizon".

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/733/733921p5.html

"IGN: Quick Fanboy wars question -- Could Lair be done under its current spec on the Xbox 360? If so, why go with the PlayStation 3 "only" instead of going cross-platform?

Eggebrecht: Lair in its current form couldn't be done on 360. We are using large amounts of Cell's SPUs for all of our geometry, landscape, simulations, animations, even troop AI. When we create a game, we absolutely focus on the platform it is designed around. Would we do one for 360, it would be a different game and a different engine -- most crucially perhaps though: Lair is an entirely different game without the motion control and gesture recognition since it was designed around it.

IGN: What advantage does Blu-ray afford you now? Everyone talks about how great the extra storage space is but are you actually using it for Lair?

Eggebrecht: The single level at TGS alone takes up 4 Gigabytes of data. We are using every ounce of that due to streaming of our textures. Sure you could chop them all down to tiny sizes and we would fit, but then again, it would not be the same game. In addition to all the textures and geometry, we also do have video on the disc, and all of that is in native 1080p resolution. Thanks to Blu-Ray we don't need to worry about that and can still fit the whole game on a single disk."

Hey dipstick, you need to start getting your fracking facts straight.

No, Glocky, you need to get your facts straight. Next time do some research before you jump down someone's throat. We know you enjoy your 360 but your rampant fanboyism at the expense of ignoring reality is really starting to make you look bad (even for System Wars). :incazzato:

[ilnadmy]

Hey I'm not complaining. This place could use some livening up.

^Referring to Renz's post.

[Mochan]

Yeah, Gaddy, you know, the one that's selling like ass and has a whopping 72% at GameRankings... So he forgot about it.

It just goes to show the narrow-mindedness and sheep mentality of the Xbot. A review site rates it below 70% so automatically all Xbots will not buy it and instead label it as a "JRPG hey I don't play JRPGs" yet these same XBots were crying "Diversity!" and hailing the Xbox's embrace of Japan and the diversity of bringing Japanese-type games to the market.

Just wait til Blue Dragon sells in the hundreds of thousands and garners a score above 80%, suddenly we'll have XBots praising JRPGs and calling the doom of Sony now that Xbox has Sony's trump genre the JRPG.

Excellent, now we have a baby eater. Actually looks like an alt account by the behavior but hey I'm not complaining, we need more loons on this board who won't get banned on their 3rd day.

[Gadfly2317]

The irony sort of eludes me as I vaguely recall Gaddie and trebor talking up the "diminishing returns" point as well in days past. What I'm loving though is how the XBots, who just last year were adamantly insisting that the 360 had equal if not better tech than the PS3, are now in "diminishing returns" mode and thus pretty much acknowledging the PS3's superior technology.

LOL, how many times have you XBots harped the advantages of the onboard HDD and how this allowed Xbox games to load faster due to caching?

Yes, but Trebor and Gaddie have consistently praised game design and artistry as being more important than raw tech. Last gen the xbots harped over and over about the size of their processor and standard hard drive making games (especially third party ones) better. It was always "the best looking versions of multiplats are on xbox." And now suddenly they are complete hypocrites by jumping on the "diminishing returns" bandwagon.

And while I was on the diminishing returns bandwagon. . . and I still believe an immersive new way to play is more exciting than new graphics. . .I still also love tech, and when looking at a true next-gen hi-end gaming experience, it's taken 360 a whole year to get one truly eye-popping game, and its all of 10 hours long.

As far as everything else I could say in response to Glock's ill-informed post, Zilla said it for me. However great games like Mass Effect, Too Human, Alan Wake and others turn out to be (those are all games I'd like to play) the fact is developers of ambitious hi-def games are exceeding the boundries possible on the 360.

360 may be less expensive, but its not, not with its little harddrive, smaller disk format, and if you want it to be wi-fi like Wii and Ps3, you have to pay an EXTRA $99 dollars!!!! If you boil it down to games, it's gonna be about your preference, but most games will be on both platforms. . . this gen even stuff like Oblivion is on Ps3. So why the hypocrisy from the former-tech-lovin xbots? Sour grapes.

Sour grapes is all. When they get enough coins in the piggy bank, big games start dropping, and the Ps3 is readily available, you'll start seeing many xbots jumping ship.

[PapaSmurf]

One of these days, sooner than later, I'm going to have to go through archives and dig up all those xbot posts that make them look like hypocrites now.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

The irony sort of eludes me as I vaguely recall Gaddie and trebor talking up the "diminishing returns" point as well in days past. What I'm loving though is how the XBots, who just last year were adamantly insisting that the 360 had equal if not better tech than the PS3, are now in "diminishing returns" mode and thus pretty much acknowledging the PS3's superior technology.

The PS3 superior tech is in it's features and most of those aren't game related. So the PS3 superior tech isn't as much of an advantage.


It's great that Fiveski (one of my fav Xbots) notes that uncompressed sound does sound better; the point of diminishing returns isn't quite there. I still keep buying new sound card after sound card because the difference in sound *is* palpable. True, it's lower on my list of priorities and I am still using my old 5.1 speaker setup that is analogue and "only" 280W RMS but if I had the cash I'd be upgrading to a more sophisticated sound setup.

Well I guess I'll have to bow to Fiveski experience since I don't have an HD DVD player. But I do have a really good 5.1 system and it sounds amazing. I can't even make the argument without some one hearing because on paper obviously uncompressed data seems better but In practice Compressed sound with the right system sounds incredible. So with out being able to compare hands on there is no real argument. But the point remains regardless both systems have high quality sound out put this wasn't the case last gen which is why this gen it's not as big a deciding factor. 5.1 in every game to no 5.1 at all vs compressed surround sound to uncompressed surround sound the arguments aren' even the same that's the point.


As for the 2 level BS, yes 2 levels of the game holds more raw data. Not necessarily more content, just more data. Half of Oblivion's DVD was made of sound files of voice overs for the entire game. I get the feeling Lair doesn't have that much speech in it, but since it is using uncompressed audio and all that jazz the total size of its sounds is larger than Oblivion's. Oblivion probably only had about a gig of textures for the entire game. Lair is going to have like a GB of textures for each level, but these textures are going to be sharper, larger, and uncompressed compared to the Oblivion textures; Oblivion may have more textures but as they are compressed and lower in quality, they simply take up less space. Uncompressed data is significantly larger, Renz can give you actual figures for textures, but to illustrate the point look at audio CDs. An audio CD can hold what, about 15 songs of 5 minutes each. That's more or less 700MB of data. If you turn those into MP3s you can fit like 150 5 minute songs onto one CD. While MP3s are very serviceable Audio CDs still sound noticeably better. Is it a diminishing return? Maybe. But the more advanced your sound setup, the more you will notice the difference

What's so BS about it? Why do I even have to explain this? It's not a difficult concept.



I'm so sick of this texture argument. I don't care how much texture space you are goint to be able to fit on a Blu ray disc, The system has only 249 mb of graphics memory. So the PS3 isn't going to be able to display the type of texture work you are talking about. And several devs have stated this. Epic devs plainly said that the PS3 lack of memory will give them problems making GOW for the system. In play magazine starbreez (chronicles of Riddick) said that the textures in the Xbox360 version of the Darkness will look better because of the available ram. Same with Ubisoft and R6:V they also stated the texture work may not be as strong because of the same factors. Now if the PS3 had a GiG of RAM then you would see a difference but as it stands it won't be much of one.


Well I felt the PC had the most varied library, with the best games, and they looked, played, and sounded better.

well opinions are like..... you know the rest.



I like how you use the opinion I quote earlier as a proof for this argument. Really slick. And easy to destroy. I like it. XBot's tech advantage last gen didn't correlate to better games either. So no. I don't know if the PS3's tech advantage this time will correlate to better games, but certainly you can't prove this by using your opinion that last gen's Xbox had better games due to the tech advantage then, and that this gen's Sony Tech Ad is not the same as last gen's XBox Tech Ad.

When I said the xbox had better games due to the tech. In this instance I wasn't talking about the design of the game I'm talking about there performance. I.E. the vast majority of Multiplats look and played better on the xbox than the PS2. This gen it's the same story despite Sony claim of "superior" tech. Make any exuse you want the facts remain.


It's true though that the graphics difference so far isn't as pronounced as last gen's, but the diminishing returns argument should not be invoked in this case, it's better to just point out that the power difference between the two systems is not that great. It actually works against your cause to note the effect of diminishing returns; since the returns on getting faster GPUs is "minimal" due to the diminsing returns effect, Sony gets more bang for the buck bumping up the storage space.

More bang for the buck? WTH are you talking about. Anyway the games are looking better on the 360 and that's that.




Memory is not the defining factor in creating better graphics (not even sure which memory you are referring too). What's more important is the actual tech in the processing unit for the graphics. There were GPUs with twice the memory as others (like the GF6600 256MB) which had double the memory of a Radeon 9800XT, but less than half the performance.

I don't think this is comparable to the console space. Last gen the PS2 to had a Processor with twice the speed but half the total memory of the Xbox look how that turned out. And again I point to the fact look at the games.





LOL, how many times have you XBots harped the advantages of the onboard HDD and how this allowed Xbox games to load faster due to caching? I also don't understand the first sentence of your paragraph above; what just because a PS3 w/ HDD is more expensive, its tech advantage of having a HDD is nullified? Huh? So if a Ferrari is more expensive than a Picanto, it doesn't run faster just because it's more expensive?

If you are comparing the two systems you have to make the price and issue. To even get in the door with a PS3 you will have to pay more than the Premium version of the Xbox. You are making the argument like the Xbox doesn't have a HDD it does. What if I said the PS3 doesn't run in Hi def because it doesn't come with the componet cables. You might would have had a point if the Xbox360 harddrive was underutilize like the PS2 one was but it's not and you don't have a point. And with those slowass blu ray disc you still get faster loading on the 360 but if you install your game on the HDD of the PS3 I hear it runs faster. Yay for game installs on consoles:rolleyes:

[NEO-360]

All the so called technical advantages the PS3 has over the Xbox 360 and the Wii really dont mean dick if game developers doesnt know how to truly push the hardware to its limits to give gamers the feel that this is truly next gen gaming at its finest.

So what the blue ray makes load times even faster. So what the disc space is double than the normal DVD. Will game developers make sure that the next crop of next gen titles takes advantage of those things? Thats the million dollar question. If they dont that only makes the PS3 a glorified PS2 with some paint and a few extras. At this point I want to see something that I cant already get from the Xbox or the PS2. And I'm talking from a software perspective not a hardware perspective.:mad2:

[Fivespot]

To further comment on my uncompressed audio post, the difference albeit slightly noticeable doesn't take away from the fact that 5.1 via optical (Dobly Digital or DTS) still sounds fabulous. It's not like the visual jump from PS1 to Dreamcast for example.

So I'd say that the differences are probably more for audiophiles than the average gamer/consumer. That being said however, my wife noticed right away and she doesn't concern herself much with audio (usually only picture).

[Gadfly2317]

The PS3 superior tech is in it's features and most of those aren't game related. So the PS3 superior tech isn't as much of an advantage.

That is a stunningly bold blanket statement. "Most" of Sony's tech advantage isn't game related?

--Backwards compatible; game related.
--Standard Harddrive (larger than Xbox's non-standard drive); Game Related
--Larger capacity blueprday disk medium--DENINITELY game related and a big +
--Wi-fi out of box--GAME RELATED
--More Processing Power--Gamer Related
--Motion sensitive controls--Big Time Game Related
--Free online--Game Related
--PsP/Ps3 connectivity: GAME RELATED, AND ONLY GETTING BETTER. (Ps1 titles able to download on Ps3 and move to PsP.)
--Better sound support--Game Related (even if beyond most current users sound setup)

That's off the top of the buzz-addled noodle. Look, I'm still bashing Ps3 pretty hard in other threads, and I'm still coveting aspects of 360 pretty badly. For me its not a done deal, but I can't ignore these actual and true factors. I'm a nintendo fanboy (lost at the moment due to Nintendo's head up its ass) and looking that other two pretty objectivily. Right now, straight up, the tech is in Sony's court. Now it just comes down to games. 360 has a headstart and some COOL AS HELL games landing, but MS better nail it down quick or that one year lead ain't gonna mean crap. I'm really enjoying sitting on this Ps3/360 fence, not knowing which one will finally win me. The Wii is a given, like a bagel and cream cheese for breakfast. But the big one? Who will it be? Ps3? 360? The two duking it out is pure sys-wars bliss and as the dust settles next year we'll see.

But I will say this, after playing Motorstorm tonight, my grin had to be surgically removed from the back of my head. MS needs to update their demobooths with some cool sh!t, because right now, it's stale city.

[Glockstar]

One of these days, sooner than later, I'm going to have to go through archives and dig up all those xbot posts that make them look like hypocrites now.

Gods I wish you would. The sooner the better. Hypocrites... pfffft. Please. Do it. Clue yourself in. Some of you frackers have no idea what you're talking about; you're in sore need of a history lesson.

[PapaSmurf]

Gods I wish you would. The sooner the better. Hypocrites... pfffft. Please. Do it. Clue yourself in. Some of you frackers have no idea what you're talking about; you're in sore need of a history lesson.

Well Glock you might want to be the xbot observer, cuz I mean it's not like I can make the best judgement in which threads to show :D

[Glockstar]

Post whatever you want! For whatever you reason you want. You're not going to surprise me. And if there's an argument to be made, I'll make it. If there's an apology... I'll make that too.

Heck, you can even quiz me beforehand. I know exactly who said what, and in what context they said it in. When it comes to this place, I've got a memory like the Q Continuum.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

That is a stunningly bold blanket statement. "Most" of Sony's tech advantage isn't game related?

--Backwards compatible; game related. Come on man we are talking next gen games
--Standard Harddrive (larger than Xbox's non-standard drive); Game Related and not only that you can easily open the side hatch and replace it with any off the market higher capacity HDD. But the fact remains What game will benefit because a system has a larger HDD. I'm talking advantages that make games better. Sure it's more convient won't argue that but it won't make games better
--Larger capacity blueprday disk medium--DENINITELY game related and a big + True. But it does have it's draw backs the speed is slower in with some games you actually have to install games which may nullify the bigger HDD advantage.
--Wi-fi out of box--GAME RELATED Wi-fi is just a method to connect to the internet both systems go online. Wired connections are more secure, then add to the fact Xbox live is a better service how is this an advantage
--More Processing Power--Gamer Related Sure but from all accounts sloppier architecture making harder for Devs. But more Power is always better I guess.
--Motion sensitive controls--Big Time Game Related No rumble big Time Disadvantage
--Free online--Game Related With more and more games dropping or getting delayed because of online features come on.
--PsP/Ps3 connectivity: GAME RELATED, AND ONLY GETTING BETTER. (Ps1 titles able to download on Ps3 and move to PsP.) Live anywhere, Microsofte Media Extender, Zune connectivity. Actually this is funny to me let's see how well this turns out I still remeber Nintendo's Connectivty and truth be told it's a failed concept.
--Better sound support--Game Related (even if beyond most current users sound setup) I'm going to make a post about this but yeah.

That's off the top of the buzz-addled noodle. Look, I'm still bashing Ps3 pretty hard in other threads, and I'm still coveting aspects of 360 pretty badly. For me its not a done deal, but I can't ignore these actual and true factors. I'm a nintendo fanboy (lost at the moment due to Nintendo's head up its ass) and looking that other two pretty objectivily. Right now, straight up, the tech is in Sony's court. Now it just comes down to games. 360 has a headstart and some COOL AS HELL games landing, but MS better nail it down quick or that one year lead ain't gonna mean crap. I'm really enjoying sitting on this Ps3/360 fence, not knowing which one will finally win me. The Wii is a given, like a bagel and cream cheese for breakfast. But the big one? Who will it be? Ps3? 360? The two duking it out is pure sys-wars bliss and as the dust settles next year we'll see.

Only thing I can say is you have to judge what's in front of you and the tech advantage isn't being shown through in the games. Last gen it was there day 1.

But I will say this, after playing Motorstorm tonight, my grin had to be surgically removed from the back of my head. MS needs to update their demobooths with some cool sh!t, because right now, it's stale city.

You were that impressed with Motorstorm??? Have you ever played Burnout?

[Glockstar]

Forget it DT. When it comes to technology, Gadfly's a Fisher-Price astronaut. Look at his reply - he doesn't even know what's tech and what isn't. Yeah, his bullet-pointed arguments are complete falsehoods - but they're so baseless that it's not even worth explaining it to him... you just let him go right on pretending. 'That's right little Timmy, you can drive your BigWheel to the moon, and yes I'm sure the people living there would love your PlayDoh cookies... just make sure you bring your Sesame-Street cellphone, otherwise they won't be able to hear you'.


But I tell you one thing that his post proves: that the PC eggheads arguments against the 360, and the Xbox before that, are bogus. They're just milk-drinkers or kitties in disquise. Either that or they're just MS haters. Because you notice how they never offer up any kind of argument against Nintendo or Sony? The only time they even show up in here is when they want to say something negative about MS and their conoles.

Take this so-called Blu-ray advantage BS that Gadfly has been spouting off about recently. It's like, 'Eh fine, even though he doesn't know what he's talking, it's all good because he's attempting to put down MS and their console(s)... so he can babble all day long for all we care.' But heavenforefend if it was MS and/or one of us pushing the format!

I mean, according to the eggheads the PC is the superior system, and PC games are and always will be the biggest, deepest, and best - even the versions of multi-plats are always superior - right? And yet all of this is accomplished without Blu-ray! You know that if you asked them they'd say (outside of SW, of course) that the size of the media doesn't matter; that DVD-9's are just fine; that Blu-ray offers no real advantage to videogames; and that it's all ridiculous propoganda. And yet when they read Sony and Gadfly blathering on about how much Blu-ray is needed for videogames they either turn a blind eye or they're like, 'Uh-huh, uh-huh, you go boy'.

[folken001]

Forget it DT. When it comes to technology, Gadfly's a Fisher-Price astronaut. Look at his reply - he doesn't even know what's tech and what isn't. Yeah, his bullet-pointed arguments are complete falsehoods - but they're so baseless that it's not even worth explaining it to him... you just let him go right on pretending. 'That's right little Timmy, you can drive your BigWheel to the moon, and yes I'm sure the people living there would love your PlayDoh cookies... just make sure you bring your Sesame-Street cellphone, otherwise they won't be able to hear you'.


But I tell you one thing that his post proves: that the PC eggheads arguments against the 360, and the Xbox before that, are bogus. They're just milk-drinkers or kitties in disquise. Either that or they're just MS haters. Because you notice how they never offer up any kind of argument against Nintendo or Sony? The only time they even show up in here is when they want to say something negative about MS and their conoles.

Take this so-called Blu-ray advantage BS that Gadfly has been spouting off about recently. It's like, 'Eh fine, even though he doesn't know what he's talking, it's all good because he's attempting to put down MS and their console(s)... so he can babble all day long for all we care.' But heavenforefend if it was MS and/or one of us pushing the format!

I mean, according to the eggheads the PC is the superior system, and PC games are and always will be the biggest, deepest, and best - even the versions of multi-plats are always superior - right? And yet all of this is accomplished without Blu-ray! You know that if you asked them they'd say (outside of SW, of course) that the size of the media doesn't matter; that DVD-9's are just fine; that Blu-ray offers no real advantage to videogames; and that it's all ridiculous propoganda. And yet when they read Sony and Gadfly blathering on about how much Blu-ray is needed for videogames they either turn a blind eye or they're like, 'Uh-huh, uh-huh, you go boy'.

Ha, this is just funny. A Sony hater is calling other people M$ haters. Are you serious? I hope you see the irony in your own comments.

Yeah Gadfly doesn't understand what tech is and appearantly you do. Another huge joke of the day. What do you do? Post news and review scores from other website? A little knowledge about TVs? Yeah, you sure are a technological guru. You are also a genius in comedy. No one has made me laughing this hard since I was born.

Blu-ray has its advantages. Some people believe it is justified and some don't. At least you actually get to use it out of the box. Not some stupid BS M$ pulled back then with Xbox when you actually had to buy additional remote control to activate it. I also think it is stupid to have Xbox Live to download additional content for the games you pay for.

[ilnadmy]

Forget it DT. When it comes to technology, Gadfly's a Fisher-Price astronaut. Look at his reply - he doesn't even know what's tech and what isn't. Yeah, his bullet-pointed arguments are complete falsehoods - but they're so baseless that it's not even worth explaining it to him... you just let him go right on pretending. 'That's right little Timmy, you can drive your BigWheel to the moon, and yes I'm sure the people living there would love your PlayDoh cookies... just make sure you bring your Sesame-Street cellphone, otherwise they won't be able to hear you'.


But I tell you one thing that his post proves: that the PC eggheads arguments against the 360, and the Xbox before that, are bogus. They're just milk-drinkers or kitties in disquise. Either that or they're just MS haters. Because you notice how they never offer up any kind of argument against Nintendo or Sony? The only time they even show up in here is when they want to say something negative about MS and their conoles.

Take this so-called Blu-ray advantage BS that Gadfly has been spouting off about recently. It's like, 'Eh fine, even though he doesn't know what he's talking, it's all good because he's attempting to put down MS and their console(s)... so he can babble all day long for all we care.' But heavenforefend if it was MS and/or one of us pushing the format!

I mean, according to the eggheads the PC is the superior system, and PC games are and always will be the biggest, deepest, and best - even the versions of multi-plats are always superior - right? And yet all of this is accomplished without Blu-ray! You know that if you asked them they'd say (outside of SW, of course) that the size of the media doesn't matter; that DVD-9's are just fine; that Blu-ray offers no real advantage to videogames; and that it's all ridiculous propoganda. And yet when they read Sony and Gadfly blathering on about how much Blu-ray is needed for videogames they either turn a blind eye or they're like, 'Uh-huh, uh-huh, you go boy'.
Wow, you really have no clue what you're talking about, do you? With PC games, we INSTALL THE GAMES TO THE HARD DRIVE. That means it doesn't matter if it's Blu-ray, DVD, or CD because it all gets installed to the HARD DRIVE. With consoles, all the data is streamed off the disc, which is why the storage medium is more important.

[folken001]

Wow, you really have no clue what you're talking about, do you? With PC games, we INSTALL THE GAMES TO THE HARD DRIVE. That means it doesn't matter if it's Blu-ray, DVD, or CD because it all gets installed to the HARD DRIVE. With consoles, all the data is streamed off the disc, which is why the storage medium is more important.
Hey, let's not forget he's the human computer tech database. With this in mind, it'd only make his post even funnier.

[NEO-360]

Ha, this is just funny. A Sony hater is calling other people M$ haters. Are you serious? I hope you see the irony in your own comments.

Yeah Gadfly doesn't understand what tech is and appearantly you do. Another huge joke of the day. What do you do? Post news and review scores from other website? A little knowledge about TVs? Yeah, you sure are a technological guru. You are also a genius in comedy. No one has made me laughing this hard since I was born.

Blu-ray has its advantages. Some people believe it is justified and some don't. At least you actually get to use it out of the box. Not some stupid BS M$ pulled back then with Xbox when you actually had to buy additional remote control to activate it. I also think it is stupid to have Xbox Live to download additional content for the games you pay for.

Blu-ray laser in fact moves much faster than the ones inside the average DVD player and current game consoles. And the blu-ray discs can hold up to 50GB of data while the discs of the 360 and the Wii can only hold up to 4.7GB. Thats about it. Whose to say that game developers will truly fill out a game disc with all that space? :confused:

Not to mention the Hard drive itself for the PS3 is basically used for storing music, videos, and downloadable games. In addition game developers can use the hard drive in order to improve the load times in games as well. This are things that Xbox owners has been accustomed to for years. Now Playstaton owners can finally get a taste of whats thats like now and then some.:aureola:

[GameLegend]

Not to mention the Hard drive itself for the PS3 is basically used for storing music, videos, and downloadable games. In addition game developers can use the hard drive in order to improve the load times in games as well. This are things that Xbox owners has been accustomed to for years. Now Playstaton owners can finally get a taste of whats thats like now and then some.:aureola:

I thought the whole reason a Xbox got a harddrive was so that it would elminate the need for stupid check points. Then like a PC, we can save anywhere in the game. Why the hell didnt the xbox support that? Something in my opinion is very imperative and fundamental.

Its like taking care of all the vital signs of a new patient in a cardiology floor but never bothering to asculate their heart. Sure it may take up more time, but you have the equipment, use it to its potential and be safe now than sorry later.

[Cuddly Knife]

Having a HDD has nothing to do with quick-save. It's up to the devs to do it. The Oddworld games did it for the PS1.

[T.Tashi]

Blu-ray laser in fact moves much faster than the ones inside the average DVD player and current game consoles. And the blu-ray discs can hold up to 50GB of data while the discs of the 360 and the Wii can only hold up to 4.7GB. Thats about it. Whose to say that game developers will truly fill out a game disc with all that space? :confused:

That's about it? LOL! WTF do you expect a disc to do? It spins and holds data. That's all they ever did.

[PapaSmurf]

Having a HDD has nothing to do with quick-save. It's up to the devs to do it. The Oddworld games did it for the PS1.

Max Payne 2 also had save anywhere for PS2 w/o an HDD. Took up an 8th of your memory card though.

[Mochan]

I don't think this is comparable to the console space. Last gen the PS2 to had a Processor with twice the speed but half the total memory of the Xbox look how that turned out. And again I point to the fact look at the games.

No, processor speed is only part of the equation. Memory simply lets you use better textures, it won't give you better effects. What's more important than memory is how advanced the rendering technology used is (shader models and all that granola) along with the bandwidth and pixel/vertice pushing power (you can have a faster processor, but if you only have half the pixel fillrate and have the vertex processing, it ain't gonna do any good and you'll have a game doing 10fps. Memory is there to let the device use bigger textures.



But I tell you one thing that his post proves: that the PC eggheads arguments against the 360, and the Xbox before that, are bogus. They're just milk-drinkers or kitties in disquise. Either that or they're just MS haters. Because you notice how they never offer up any kind of argument against Nintendo or Sony? The only time they even show up in here is when they want to say something negative about MS and their conoles.


LOL, I've offered arguments against Nintendo, Sony even against the PC. I've even *gasp* made arguments for MS. It's not my fault you're too senile to remember.

So much for Mr. "Q Continuum" Memory.

This are things that Xbox owners has been accustomed to for years. Now Playstaton owners can finally get a taste of whats thats like now and then some.

That's something PC users have been accustomed to for more than a decade.


I mean, according to the eggheads the PC is the superior system, and PC games are and always will be the biggest, deepest, and best - even the versions of multi-plats are always superior - right? And yet all of this is accomplished without Blu-ray!

My harddrive is bigger than any Bluray disk. I don't NEED Bluray except as a convenience when installing the game to my harddrive. What? You thought we played our games off the optical disk in retarded console fashion? No wonder you were so impressed with the Xbox!

[NEO-360]

I thought the whole reason a Xbox got a harddrive was so that it would elminate the need for stupid check points. Then like a PC, we can save anywhere in the game. Why the hell didnt the xbox support that? Something in my opinion is very imperative and fundamental.

Its like taking care of all the vital signs of a new patient in a cardiology floor but never bothering to asculate their heart. Sure it may take up more time, but you have the equipment, use it to its potential and be safe now than sorry later.

With some of the Xbox's games you were allowed to save anywhere at anytime. Not all of them though. If that was allowed with every single game there wouldnt be much of a challenge with alot of games if you can simply click and save every two seconds. PC games indeed do have its advantages over videogame consoles. Cant deny that. But I rather stick with consoles. :aureola:

[NEO-360]

That's about it? LOL! WTF do you expect a disc to do? It spins and holds data. That's all they ever did.

All I was saying Tashi is that the blu-ray really dont have that much of an advantage over the 360 and the Wii. Thats all. I mean having all that extra space on a disc and having faster loading times sounds great.

But that doesnt mean that game developers will truly take advantage of these things with each game thats cranked out. As far as I'm concerned if gamers is going to be charged $60 dollars a game we deserve to have tons of extras per game if you plan to be a PS3 owner.

Thats all I was saying soldier. :p

[NEO-360]

No, processor speed is only part of the equation. Memory simply lets you use better textures, it won't give you better effects. What's more important than memory is how advanced the rendering technology used is (shader models and all that granola) along with the bandwidth and pixel/vertice pushing power (you can have a faster processor, but if you only have half the pixel fillrate and have the vertex processing, it ain't gonna do any good and you'll have a game doing 10fps. Memory is there to let the device use bigger textures.





LOL, I've offered arguments against Nintendo, Sony even against the PC. I've even *gasp* made arguments for MS. It's not my fault you're too senile to remember.

So much for Mr. "Q Continuum" Memory.



That's something PC users have been accustomed to for more than a decade.



My harddrive is bigger than any Bluray disk. I don't NEED Bluray except as a convenience when installing the game to my harddrive. What? You thought we played our games off the optical disk in retarded console fashion? No wonder you were so impressed with the Xbox!

Another PC/ videogame console comparison in System Wars? :sleep:

[NEO-360]

Having a HDD has nothing to do with quick-save. It's up to the devs to do it. The Oddworld games did it for the PS1.

Thank you for pointing this out.:cool:

[ilnadmy]

What? You thought we played our games off the optical disk in retarded console fashion? No wonder you were so impressed with the Xbox!

Lawl.

Face it, Xbots. You were all dancing and singing around the Xbox's hard drive not 4 years ago, and now you're here telling us how it's not that important? Talk about spewing bull**** and then eating it.

[T.Tashi]

All I was saying Tashi is that the blu-ray really dont have that much of an advantage over the 360 and the Wii. Thats all. I mean having all that extra space on a disc and having faster loading times sounds great.

But that doesnt mean that game developers will truly take advantage of these things with each game thats cranked out. As far as I'm concerned if gamers is going to be charged $60 dollars a game we deserve to have tons of extras per game if you plan to be a PS3 owner.

Thats all I was saying soldier. :p

Ok then, true that. :thumbsup: But games are $60 for the 360 too.