Popov, Stoli, and Belvedere

[Glockstar]

Wii, 360, and PS3

Three consoles, three very different price points. ($250, $400, $600; respectively.)

As they do with so many things, I wonder if people will associate quality and price with the next-gen systems?

[Gadfly2317]

Wii, 360, and PS3

Three consoles, three very different price points. ($250, $400, $600; respectively.)

As they do with so many things, I wonder if people will associate quality and price with the next-gen systems?

Maybe not so much. What's weird is the last 3 times I've been in a Best Buy, the 360 demo station has been empty, but the GC and Xbox ones both had players.

Wii demo stations are bound to attract attention, if only because Nintendo is likely smart enough to put some of the games that require more animated movements. It was like how at the Game convention I went to last year Guitar Hero had long ass lines, because it looked like people were having kick ass fun and it made you want to try it out.

People are going to want to try the Wii, and if it's fun, and fun is what we spend our dollars for, then it will be seen as a better value rather than "cheap."

Ps3 is at a price point and feature set that might not be seen as "better" but as a pricey, fragile, and intimidatingly-complex piece of specialized electronics.

[Aylmer]

Maybe not so much. What's weird is the last 3 times I've been in a Best Buy, the 360 demo station has been empty, but the GC and Xbox ones both had players.

Wii demo stations are bound to attract attention, if only because Nintendo is likely smart enough to put some of the games that require more animated movements. It was like how at the Game convention I went to last year Guitar Hero had long ass lines, because it looked like people were having kick ass fun and it made you want to try it out.

People are going to want to try the Wii, and if it's fun, and fun is what we spend our dollars for, then it will be seen as a better value rather than "cheap."

Ps3 is at a price point and feature set that might not be seen as "better" but as a pricey, fragile, and intimidatingly-complex piece of specialized electronics.

I just don't see hordes of people rushing out to drop $2k or more on a HDTV to play games on. the whole blue ray thing is premature. I don't know what the price point on those disks are, but it's hard to imagine people replacing their dvd collection with a higher res version of the same film. I go to best buy, look at the hi-def stuff, and man, it's nice, but it's not THAT nice!

The other thing that worries me is that developers have been saying for a long time that pumping money into killer graphics makes for good eye candy but not necessarily good gaming, and I'm with them on that. I think there's a real possibility that, at least for Sony and MSoft, that the graphicaholics will be the primary buyers of their games.

Just look at all the ass kicking games coming out for handhelds. their price point isn't that far from full size console games, yet in many cases, they are preferable in terms of playability to parking in front of a tv drooling over the latest and greatest cg.

When i read the specs on the pS3 in the PSM I just got, and they said $600 for the console, well, I will not be preordering, that's for sure.

[trebor]

As they do with so many things, I wonder if people will associate quality and price with the next-gen systems?

If people are so concerned with quality, a company like Westinghouse wouldn't be making $600 LCD HDTV's, and if people were so concerned with price, a company like Mitsubishi wouldn't be making high priced HDTVs that are of equal quality to lower priced HDTVs.

In other words, I believe name recognition will play a much larger role this next gen then it has ever before.

[Glockstar]

If people are so concerned with quality, a company like Westinghouse wouldn't be making $600 LCD HDTV's, and if people were so concerned with price, a company like Mitsubishi wouldn't be making high priced HDTVs that are of equal quality to lower priced HDTVs.

Everything has a place or purpose in life, my friend. Well, almost everything. But even that Popov ****e has some usefulness. You wouldn't go wasting Belvedere in Long Island Ice Tea's would you?!

-

Popov = bottom shelf. Belvedere = top shelf.
Nintendo Wii = bottom shelf? PS3 = top shelf?

-

In other words, I believe name recognition will play a much larger role this next gen then it has ever before.

Youch. I hope your wrong. Because that would mean the Playstation 3 would dominate again. And, that doesn't bode well for Nintendo's little Wii.

[trebor]

Everything has a place or purpose in life, my friend. Well, almost everything. But even that Popov ****e has some usefulness. You wouldn't go wasting Belvedere in Long Island Ice Tea's would you?!

-

Popov = bottom shelf. Belvedere = top shelf.
Nintendo Wii = bottom shelf? PS3 = top shelf?

I think you give the mainstream consumer too much credit.

There are people out there that will put Belvedere (or Grey Goose if they have taste ;) ) in everything they drink, simply because they believe that top shelf vodka makes a difference in everything. It makes them feel "special" because they are aware of a brand of vodka that is considered to be "high quality".

Of course there are people out there who will drink Popov because it gets them to where they want to go for far less money.

So, I guess what I'm saying is that we both have valid points.


Youch. I hope your wrong. Because that would mean the Playstation 3 would dominate again. And, that doesn't bode well for Nintendo's little Wii.

Whether it bodes well for Wii or not, I think that it is an accurate assessment.

People are dumb - they will still buy Sony branded electronics, when there are far superior alternatives for less money, simply because people still associate Sony with being "da goodest brand."

[GameLegend]

People are dumb - they will still buy Sony branded electronics, when there are far superior alternatives for less money, simply because people still associate Sony with being "da goodest brand."

Perfect example:

iPod.
That darn thing, there are companies out there that offer more storage, better quality, more features for much lower price, but the iPod still outsells them.

[trebor]

Perfect example:

iPod.
That darn thing, there are companies out there that offer more storage, better quality, more features for much lower price, but the iPod still outsells them.

Well, in defense of the iPod (I DO own one), Apple does make very high quality products. And if you're a Mac user like me, the iPod is pretty much the only choice for MP3 players, since most aren't compatible with Macs.

[joquito]

Well, in defense of the iPod (I DO own one), Apple does make very high quality products. And if you're a Mac user like me, the iPod is pretty much the only choice for MP3 players, since most aren't compatible with Macs.

Yes, the Ipod is a nice mp3 player and it itegrates flawlessly with a Mac. Unfortunately, Macs don't sell more Ipods, Ipods sell more Macs. So people who own PCs buy Ipods even though there are options that might suit them better for a given price point. I actually know people who went out and bought a Mac so they can more easily use their Ipod.

[Gadfly2317]

I actually know people who went out and bought a Mac so they can more easily use their Ipod.

We're all bound to be aquainted with at least a few douchebags, but seriously, that's taking it to a whole other level.

[trebor]

We're all bound to be aquainted with at least a few douchebags, but seriously, that's taking it to a whole other level.

Why? At least in their cases they get to finally use a good computer that comes with a rock solid OS, unlike the droves of PC users. What would be truly douchebagesque would be to buy a non-Mac compatible MP3 player and then have to buy a PC to use it. ;)

[Tappy_Tibbons]

Anyone with a mac, unless used for Video editing is a consumer whore. Sorry, but iPod is the most overrated and overpriced popular electronic ever made. Have fun with all 10 software programs that run on your mac. Lemme know how that $100 service pack treats you. please.

Oh, and I'm waiting for all the consoles before I choose.

[trebor]

Anyone with a mac, unless used for Video editing is a consumer whore. Sorry, but iPod is the most overrated and overpriced popular electronic ever made. Have fun with all 10 software programs that run on your mac. Lemme know how that $100 service pack treats you. please.

Oh, and I'm waiting for all the consoles before I choose.

You do realize that 95% of the graphics and print industry uses Mac computers right? If you didn't it makes you look like an ignorant tool. I've never worked for a single design company that didn't use Macs.

[Gadfly2317]

Why? At least in their cases they get to finally use a good computer that comes with a rock solid OS, unlike the droves of PC users. What would be truly douchebagesque would be to buy a non-Mac compatible MP3 player and then have to buy a PC to use it. ;)

Why? It wasn't a diss on Mac or even necessarily iPod. . . I know I don't need to explain what I said in response to Joquito's " I actually know people who went out and bought a Mac so they can more easily use their Ipod."

Regarding rock solid OS's, as much as I have disliked MS for ripping off other's ideas and generally predatory business practices, I haven't had Windows XP crash once in the years
I've been using it.

And the versatility and software availability and the number of devices a PC easily interfaces with. . .I mean, I'm not even sure anymore if the old truism "macs are best for photoshop" is even true anymore. And the old truism that mac is "easier" hasn't been true for a long time. . .I mean, about 10 years ago I worked at a university computer store for about a year selling both macs and pcs and I never could figure out how to get the mac to do anything with it's one-button mouse. . . I mean, right clicking on anything to pull up a menu related to that item alone, to me, blows away any of the so-called "ease of use" aspects of the mac.

I have a relative who loves mac; he is an editor at a publishing company that does books which include lots of illustrations. Like you are saying, mac is the industry standard. He's been in the business for ages; but even on this front, I'm still not convinced there's anything inherently better about the Mac for this kind of work, rather than that mac used to be better (since it was the innovative product MS copied) so a lot of people in the industry use that, their work is in that format, and this perpetuates the use of mac in the graphic design and publishing industries. You know a lot more about this though than I do. . .you could probably explain if I'm misperceiving this.

Ipod. . .they look cool, they are a fashion trend as well as a music player. The whole billboard/bus stop add campaign is centered around fashion and image, not music or function.

It's great that Mac users have an Mp3 that will work with their system. But PC users have a ton of Mp3 player choices that offer true music freedom, play multiple file formats (mp3,wav, ogg, etc--the player I bought about a year ago even displays word documents and photos) that cost much less. And are actually easier to use. . .it doesn't get any easier than plug-it-in (no software to install) and drag what you want over to the player. I can't imagine being forced to convert my music to a proprietary iPod format in order to listen to it away from my PC.

Again, not a criticism of mac, mac users, or iPod. But any PC user who bought an iPod and then bought a Mac at one of those shopping mall mac stores to more easily use their iPod is a douchebag, and as Tappy said (god I hate agreeing with Tappy) a consumer whore.

[trebor]

I have a relative who loves mac; he is an editor at a publishing company that does books which include lots of illustrations. Like you are saying, mac is the industry standard. He's been in the business for ages; but even on this front, I'm still not convinced there's anything inherently better about the Mac for this kind of work, rather than that mac used to be better (since it was the innovative product MS copied) so a lot of people in the industry use that, their work is in that format, and this perpetuates the use of mac in the graphic design and publishing industries. You know a lot more about this though than I do. . .you could probably explain if I'm misperceiving this.

Well, it is true that PC's can do a lot of what Macs can do in terms of the design industry, but on the other hand, Macs can do what a lot of PCs can do in everything else. It's a misconception that "there's only 10 software applications that Macs can use" and really, the only area where Macs are clearly inferior to PCs is gaming.

As far as why Macs are preferred in the design industry - Macs are more optimized for color accuracy and supposedly, they run graphic programs quite faster then PCs. Plus, as you said, since they have been used for ages in the industry, more color production professionals and pre-press operations are already set up for Macs and can deal with Mac related issues quite faster.

In other words, it's a lot like why PCs are so prevalent in the business world - they got there first.

[Pandarbock]

I can't imagine being forced to convert my music to a proprietary iPod format in order to listen to it away from my PC.

Ipods don't require a proprietary format, mine plays all my mp3s I encoded years ago in the orginal VBR format I encoded them in. I have also put standard mp4 audio files on it (ac3) without it re-encoding them. The only crappy thing about the new ipods is that it does in fact require a specifically headed mp4 movie file at a set resolution in order to play video instead of accepting divx or some standard quicktime or avi format, but there is a nice free encoder avalible that does the job quite easily with nice result. I am not so sure why people bash the ipod so much saying it is expensive and that all of its features are present in other product for less. Show me a competitors product that has 30GB of storage with a nice color lcd that does video (as well as has video out for play back on a regular TV) and all fits in a package as small as the newer 30 GB ipod videos at a price similar or cheaper, and I will in fact agree that the ipod is an over priced peice of garbage.
I didn't buy the ipod over the other products I looked at because it was cooler, I did so because they managed to fit so much functionality into such a small package compared to the competition.

[joquito]

Ipods don't require a proprietary format, mine plays all my mp3s I encoded years ago in the orginal VBR format I encoded them in. I have also put standard mp4 audio files on it (ac3) without it re-encoding them. The only crappy thing about the new ipods is that it does in fact require a specifically headed mp4 movie file at a set resolution in order to play video instead of accepting divx or some standard quicktime or avi format, but there is a nice free encoder avalible that does the job quite easily with nice result. I am not so sure why people bash the ipod so much saying it is expensive and that all of its features are present in other product for less. Show me a competitors product that has 30GB of storage with a nice color lcd that does video (as well as has video out for play back on a regular TV) and all fits in a package as small as the newer 30 GB ipod videos at a price similar or cheaper, and I will in fact agree that the ipod is an over priced peice of garbage.
I didn't buy the ipod over the other products I looked at because it was cooler, I did so because they managed to fit so much functionality into such a small package compared to the competition.

People are switching from CD players to music servers, and you can't connect your ipod to any of them or use songs from itunes on them. If a music server manufacturer wants their device to work with the ipod or itunes, they have to pay all kinds of licensing fees ,unlike like 95% of the other mp3 players on the market, with which they are plug and play. Its not a bad product at all, quite good, just a tad overrated.

Regarding the original question, people don't have a clue as to what quality is today. So price will be a hugenormous factor and value (how much stuff for the dollar I get) will be on peoples minds. I sell Hifi equipment and people don't know the difference between a silver painted faceplate and an extruded aluminum faceplate. One cost $50 to produce and the other $2.

[Glockstar]

Regarding the original question, people don't have a clue as to what quality is today. So price will be a hugenormous factor and value (how much stuff for the dollar I get) will be on peoples minds. I sell Hifi equipment and people don't know the difference between a silver painted faceplate and an extruded aluminum faceplate. One cost $50 to produce and the other $2.

Yeah, and I'll bet there's some people who buy - maybe even ask for - the most expensive unit, because they think it'll have them covered with regards to all features, and that it'll be more reliable and last them longer, and I'll bet some even think that it's going to sound better.

[joquito]

Yeah, and I'll bet there's some people who buy - maybe even ask for - the most expensive unit, because they think it'll have them covered with regards to all features, and that it'll be more reliable and last them longer, and I'll bet some even think that it's going to sound better.

Actually, no one in New England wants to buy the most expensive model, even if its well within their budget. They buy the model just slightly below the most expensive model. That way they think they aren't getting hosed.

[GameLegend]

Actually, no one in New England wants to buy the most expensive model, even if its well within their budget. They buy the model just slightly below the most expensive model. That way they think they aren't getting hosed.

Thats so true, when I was working in canadian tire in promotions (I delt with every new sale on the flyer meaning i was everywhere in the store), I'd often swing by the electronics section and customers would ask about the specifications of certain stereos. And like Joquito mentioned, majority of them looked at the most expensive product and then bought the model slightly below the most expensive.

What about expensive watches? I have the same Ironman Triathlon watch since 1994, err 12 years. Changed the battery 3 times. I still dont see the need for a new watch, but my dad still insists on buying $ 100-250 watches every year. My watch $40, and mine has more features :P. I guess its all about style, i still think my watch is more stylish.

[Tappy_Tibbons]

Home use, Mac sucks/

[trebor]

Home use, Mac sucks/

Wow, I'm convinced. :rolleyes:

Considering that most home computer users surf the internet, manage their digital photos, manage their digital music, and do some light video work, I'd like to hear you actually explain why you think Macs "suck" for home use.

Seeing as how Macs come standard with photo software, video software, music software and surf the same internet that PC users do.

[Renzatic Gear]

It's not so much the Mac's that are good as it is OSX. Even though it has it's quirks, it's more streamlined and doesn't try to do everything under the sun like Windows does. Plus, like Treb said, it's about the best enviroment you can hope for if you're in the professional end of the comp use spectrum.

But now that Apple has gone with Intel chips for their next gen Macs, alot of people have found that you can install OSX on a PC quite easily. That way you get all the good a Mac offers, with all the advantages of a homebuilt computer....like price and upgradability.

I never have understood why Apple never went ahead and made an x86 OSX. A Mac in and of itself is just an overpriced PC, it's the software that makes it so good. Admittedly they do making a killing doing their own thing by selling to the tragically e-hip, but they could get a much wider audience and make even more money just by sitting a foot in the PC scene.

Hell, they could even sell Mac chasis' for people that just can't live without a bit of style.

[trebor]

But now that Apple has gone with Intel chips for their next gen Macs, alot of people have found that you can install OSX on a PC quite easily. That way you get all the good a Mac offers, with all the advantages of a homebuilt computer....like price and upgradability.

Really... I hadn't heard that. I knew that you could load Windows XP into the new Intel Macs, but I didn't know you could load OS 10.4.4 into a Intel PC. Interesting.


I never have understood why Apple never went ahead and made an x86 OSX. A Mac in and of itself is just an overpriced PC, it's the software that makes it so good. Admittedly they do making a killing doing their own thing by selling to the tragically e-hip, but they could get a much wider audience and make even more money just by sitting a foot in the PC scene.

They did, but Apple never released it. I read reports that Apple had their latest version of OS X up and running on PCs, but it would be suicide for them to release it to market. Apple makes all their money off of their hardware, so releasing their software to competing hardware would cripple their business.

[BoyVsCar]

I am a recent convert to the Mac lifestyle. An early adopter of the IPod [early as in Generation 2 scroll wheel -> 1st available for Windows BEFORE ITunes was available on Windows] I now, between my wife and I, have five. I am a gadget geek, and have been tempted by mac for a few years. [Before that I was stringently oppossed to it, much as many of you seem to be.] I maintain my PC's, of course... Uncle Bill has been too kind to me. [I am, afterall, an MCSE NT4/2000/2003.] I must admit though, I am absolutely blown away by the OSX experience. The built in tools are phenomenal, fun and intuitive. The kernel is a hardened BSD [see: Unix] affair and it shows. I have this hooked up to my 61" DLP and it is a riot... and it makes managing those pods silky smooth.

And in defense of the pod... other players may have more features, but I have yet to see an end to end solution as streamlined and simple as Apple makes it. Sometimes I like to get away from complicated gear... and the pod provides that. I could use jHymn to convert all my AAC files back to MP3's or WMA's and move to a less expensive player... but why? For a half baked rip-off interface or poorly conceived Windows media management software? Nah... since I have the extra bones I'll spend them on what works. And look swell while doing it.

Oh, I have no affiliation with the following, but if anyone is looking for a GREAT leather case for their phone or gear, including the PSP [although I have only bought for the iPod] checkout http://www.vajacases.com !