Zilla Man's (Very Delayed) 2006 E3 Wrap Up

[Zilla Man]

Sorry this post is a few weeks late. I'm going to cover all 3 companies' booths and then give my final impressions. Please post any questions about anything -- there's a lot I saw that I may have forgotten to put in my notes.

Nintendo Booth

I already covered the Wii, so now let's talk about the DS. If you've read my past reports you know my biggest gripe with Ninty has always been the lack of space in their booth. Last year was the first year they actually made some room. Between that and the fact that this year's show was very restricted (making crowds smaller), I had high hopes. Well, I was wrong. This year, because of the separate larger Wii section/display, the DS and DS Lite section was shoe-horned into an even smaller space than before. Add this to crowds of Ninty fans and the result is that Yours Truly could barely get close enough to take pictures or see what the specific game screens were, much less play the machines.

So I never got to actually play any DS or DS Lite Games. :(

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While the Wii games were neat, the games I saw were not really a large graphic improvement over the Cube and there were a lot of sequels. While I enjoyed the Wii Mote, I don't know whether or not it'll be enough to reel in and keep non gamers (the way DS has). I'm also curious to see how it will fare using the Wand to play something like Zelda or Mario for more than an hour.

Regardless, Nintendo will continue to rake in the $$$ with DS and DS lIte. Not bad for what was initially a knee-jerk reaction to Sony encroaching on their turf. :)

Prediction: Wii will kill in Japan and will actually give MS a run for their money here (at least initially. But if they have trouble getting 3rd parties on board after the second year (as is traditional in Nintendo consoles), then watch MS take the lead from them in Europe and North America.

Microsoft

Last year's MS booth was pathetic. Only HL2 and Condemned were out on the floor. Everything else was either shown behind the scenes or in the publisher's booth. I was unimpressed.

This year: Aaaaah, that's more like it! As you can see, MS's booth theme this E3 seemed to be Genereal Grievous' Transportation Device Displays:

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There were a lot more games this year, thank god. Here a few I played:

Shadowrun

I was a huuuuge fan of the Genesis RPG so when my friend from mS told me they'd acquired the rights back in 2003, I crossed my fingers. And my prayers were answered...sort of. This Shadowrun takes place in the same Cyberpunk/Magickal world as it's namesake but it's a FPS. Yes, you can use spells and technical devices but I didn't see any hacking -- one of the coolest parts of the Genesis version (and underplayed in the SNES one). Yes, you can go into 3rd person mode, mostly to activate powers, I think. But the emphasis seemed to be purely on shooting (not what Shadowrun is known for) and that action seemed to pale in comparison to Fall of Man and Prey. Then again, the game was only 30% done. I also thought a Doom RPG was a terrible idea and was proved wrong, so who knows? Until I hear more, I remain cautiously optimistic about this one.

99 Nights

Part of the much ballyhooed MS 360 Final Fantasy Creator H. Sakaguchi one-two punch (or *****-slap) MS hopes to deliver to Sony. The other one being the RPG Blue Dragon (for which only a brief trailer was shown). Well, I got good news and bad news:

The good news is that the game was actually finished -- all it needed was localization. One of the prodsucers told me it releaes in Japan at the end of May/beginning of June. The graphics were good and had a nice cel-shaded effect. The bad news is that the game is basically Dynasty Warriors with designs by Sakaguchi. Actually it's a bit more than that. While talking to the producer I mentioned how much 99 Nights reminded me of an excellent underrated Xbox game I played at a friends (but have yet to purchase) called Kingdom Under Fire. Guess which producer also designed that game and it's sequel? Yup...

As Kurt Angle would say, "Oh, it's true." 99 Nights is a lot of fun. But it's not something that we haven't seen before. My friend called it "Dynasty Warriors Under Fire from Kessen." Because you have spells, generals, bodyguards, and all the usual stuff it's a bit familiar. But still a lot of fun. It takes what looks like the best elements of all those games and combines them.

Bottom line: if you like or are interested in any of the above games, then get this one. But I don't think the Japanese market is going to respond very well to something they've already seen on other systems. And it's definitely not the killer app to pull people away from Sony. Blue Dragon had better be mind-blowing or MS can not only forget about Japan, but also about trying to compete with Nintendo or Sony in the eastern RPG genre.

Gears of War

Although there was more of the game to see this year, I wasn't as impressed as I was last year. It really seems like a gussied up version of Quake with some Unreal 2 thrown in. Later on I found out that the game had started out as an Unreal game so that makes sense. The story seems interesting and if I get a 360 I'll definitely be picking this up. But it was not the best FPS at the show (more on that later). So if you like FPS like me and Masked Gamer, this one's a no brainer.

Saints Row

Last year, when I saw this, I thought it was a cheap GTA rip-off. Since I actually played it this year, now I know it's a cheapGTA rip-off! Usually I'm polite to the designers/producers and try to think about something good to say about their game. But this thing offended me so much that I straight out asked the THQ guy, "Okay, so what's the difference between this and GTA - besdides your grphics being better." The guy kind of stammered and then said something about Saints Row having a more twisted senso of humor than GTA. Oh really? All I saw were a lot of unnecessary voilence, cussing, and ripped off play mechanics. And when I say unneccessary, I mean even when compared to all the GTA games! Plus the gameplay was boring and unoriginal. That was it's biggest offense.

360 owners, don't waste your time with this POS unless it hits the bargain bin. Just wait for GTA IV in 2007; or if you can't wait, pick up True Crime -- even that seems better than this.

Prediction: MS certainly had a much more diverse line-up this year. 3rd party support is strong and there are a lot of good games coming. But there are several obstacles they must overcome. One is the fact that 360 is bombing in Japan worse than Xbox. MS was just plain idiotic to not have a Japanses game on board for launch over there. I know that many think the Japanese market isn't as important as NA and Europe but it actually is -- albeit in a different way. Since a majority of the most powerful 3rd party companies are based in Japan, that's where most of the indusrty's popular game franchises come from. Yes, Capcom is dipping it's toe in the water with Dead Rising (which rocks) and RE 5, but look at the 360 3rd party support compared to Sony and Nintendo.

A good example of this is when I asked one of the guys from Kojima studios at the Konami booth if there was ever going to be a Metal Gear for the 360 - even a port. He said "No" because although Kojima likes the machine, he thinks the Xbox crowd is different than the PS and Nintendo gamers. and doesn't think it would be worthwhile for him.(He didn't elaborate but I'm guessing probably means the emphasis on shooters, military sims, etc. over fantasy But Kojima is planning on something for the Wii).

We all know the PS3's will sell out. If MS can hold their own in in 2007 (when the PS3 will start to creep into the mainstream), they'll be okay.And Halo 3 needs to be awesome. By the time it hits in 2007, we'll have no less than 6 FPS exclusives on the PS3 alone and who knows how many on the Wii.

And then there's the Sony technology edge. Xbox got a lot of its followers because of the HDD and it's appeal to tech heads who thrived on having the most powerful system. Now that'll belong to Sony. It's going to be weird when GTA IV comes out and all the PS3 versions have custom soundtracks while only some of the 360's will.

BTW, the trailer I saw for Blue Dragon had me worried. If Xbots think the Nintendo games are for kiddies/kitties, wait'll they see this thing.

And what the hell ever happened to Rare?

I commend MS for making more of an effort this year. There's less an emphasis on Live! (but still too much IMHO) and more on single player games and they are trying to branch out a bit (Viva Pinata). I just don't know if that will be enough. If they can get another exclusive killer app besides Halo they'll be fine.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot the best thing about the MS booth this year. NO J. ALLARD!! :D That's the most positive change I've seen in their gaming division.

I've got to go for now. But I'll be back soon with a few more random games and then Sony to cover.

[Cuddly Knife]

I coulda swore that Gears was a third-person shooter that focused on taking cover and learning how to flank. Yup, that's what the new video in my OXM is showing. Can it be played in 1st person?

I knew Saints Row was going to be ass, but I still have high hopes for Crackdown(?).

I saw more video for 99 Nights, and it still looks to generic to make me want this game. Meh.

[Zilla Man]

I coulda swore that Gears was a third-person shooter that focused on taking cover and learning how to flank. Yup, that's what the new video in my OXM is showing. Can it be played in 1st person?

Oops!

My bad. Yeah it's third-person but there are some sgments where you can switch. But it's mostly third.

Sorry guys, it's been a long week and I must've had Unreal on my mind. :)

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

99 Nights cel-shaded? Every screenshot I've seen shows real graphics for the game.

Any chance to switch views in ShadowRun?

If 99 Nights has real graphics, I'm still interested since I rarely played any of the DW or Kingdom Under Fire games (the 2nd one sucked, IMO). I'm also still on board for Saint's Row.

[Mochan]

Kingdom Under Fire? Wasn't that some RTS/RPG hybrid for the PC? So it also made it to the Xbox?

[Superior Beatslayer]

We all know the PS3's will sell out. If MS can hold their own in in 2007 (when the PS3 will start to creep into the mainstream), they'll be okay.And Halo 3 needs to be awesome. By the time it hits in 2007, we'll have no less than 6 FPS exclusives on the PS3 alone and who knows how many on the Wii.

And then there's the Sony technology edge. Xbox got a lot of its followers because of the HDD and it's appeal to tech heads who thrived on having the most powerful system. Now that'll belong to Sony. It's going to be weird when GTA IV comes out and all the PS3 versions have custom soundtracks while only some of the 360's will.

.

The PS3 is hardly more powerful than the 360, if at all. Even if it does have the Blu ray advantage, that nothing. The edge in technology the PS3 isn't enough to sway gamers to opt for a ps3 over the 360. That is a fact, sorry Sony.

[Gadfly2317]

The PS3 is hardly more powerful than the 360, if at all. Even if it does have the Blu ray advantage, that nothing. The edge in technology the PS3 isn't enough to sway gamers to opt for a ps3 over the 360. That is a fact, sorry Sony.

Whatever graphical advantage the Ps3 may have, I'd be shocked if it was as big as the gap between Xbox and Ps2. I think it is the total tech advantage Zilla was talking about, though and not just the Ps3 having better graphics, from the standard HD to HDMI, tilt-sensitive controller, larger media capacity, SD and memstick duo i/o, Blue Tooth, USB, Wifi, 1080p. . . what Zilla was saying is that a big part of the momentum and base for MS was the tech-heads who like having this stuff. The hard-drive and better graphics was definitely a draw then, just like this stuff will be a draw now to the same crowd.

[Glockstar]

Whatever graphical advantage the Ps3 may have, I'd be shocked if it was as big as the gap between Xbox and Ps2. I think it is the total tech advantage Zilla was talking about, though and not just the Ps3 having better graphics, from the standard HD to HDMI, tilt-sensitive controller, larger media capacity, SD and memstick duo i/o, Blue Tooth, USB, Wifi, 1080p. . . what Zilla was saying is that a big part of the momentum and base for MS was the tech-heads who like having this stuff. The hard-drive and better graphics was definitely a draw then, just like this stuff will be a draw now to the same crowd.

Yeah but a lot of those features you cite are gimmicks, the Xbox was full of tech stuff that you actually used.

1080p and HDMI might be neat 3 years down the road, but what practical use do they have now? The tilting controller: good for flight games, but what else? And, of course, the blu-ray drive: good for (some) movies, but it doesn't really do anything for games (other than putting all content on one disk - i.e. makes it so that you never have to swap disks to watch bonus extras and whatnot).

The Xbox harddrive was good for quicker loadtimes, custom soundtracks, downloadable content, and for Xbox Live. While the superior graphics advantage allowed the Xbox to be the only console recipient of many recent PC ports (i.e. Doom 3 and Half-Life 2) - games that most Xbox users - as well as most console gamers in general - would otherwise never have been able to play. As you said, the PS3s graphical prowess is almost no advantage at all: it is not going to land the system that same feather in it's cap. Not by itself. In fact, it is the 360 that will continue where the Xbox left off and will continue to be the console that gets PC games because the technology inside of it is so similar to a PC - it's a no-brainer for PC-gamemakers to make a 360 version. And make no mistake about it, the 360 definitely has the graphics capabilities to host these games.

[VGV]

<table width=800 bgcolor=#000000><tr><td width=400 valign="top"><img src="http://z.about.com/d/playstation/1/5/X/3/MotorStorm_10.jpg"><img src="http://z.about.com/d/playstation/1/5/_/3/MotorStorm_15.jpg"></td><td width=400 valign="top"><img src="http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/321/reviews/927245_20051118_screen002.jpg" width=400 height=224><img src="http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/321/reviews/927245_20051118_screen010.jpg" width=400 height=224></td></tr><tr><td valign="top" bgcolor=#990000><img src="http://z.about.com/d/playstation/1/5/U/3/MotorStorm_11.jpg"></td><td><font face="verdana" color=#FFFFFF size=2><b>OK, I've put up a side by side comparison here of an upcoming first gen PS3 racer (MotorStorm) and a first gen Xbox 360 racer (PGR3). The difference is HUGE !!! Not only that, but MotorStorm runs at a smooth 60fps when you watch the in-game footage from E3 ! Imagine ... if dev teams can pull this off, this early in the PS3's life cycle ... imagine what they'll come up with once they tap the PS3's full graphical potential.<BR><BR>Graphix are not the be all and end all of gaming, but they're definitely a very important aspect of the gaming experience. Also, this tells me that the PS3 is technologically much more advanced than the Xbox 360 ... it's not only on paper anymore.<BR><BR>To conclude, if the PS3, this early on has proven to be a true beast of a machine ... then one can rest assured that the possibilities to create the most advanced gaming experiences are exclusively on the PS3 platform.<BR><BR></b></font></td></tr></table>

[Glockstar]

The difference is HUGE !!!

Yeah, one's a fmv and one's real-time in-game footage.

[VGV]

Wrong ... did you check out the in-game footage from E3 ? Same as these
screenshots. In case you're still in doubt here's a few more I found on the Net.

<img src="http://www.pixelrage.ro/games/Motorstorm/screenshots/09050611075422115300.jpg" width=400 height=224>

<img src="http://www.pixelrage.ro/games/Motorstorm/screenshots/09050611080129239200.jpg" width=400 height=224>


P.S. The in cockpit view, could've clued you in.

[Gadfly2317]

Wrong ... did you check out the in-game footage from E3 ? Same as these
screenshots. In case you're still in doubt here's a few more I found on the Net.

P.S. The in cockpit view, could've clued you in.

You can't do cockpit view in a FMV? I watched the video, and the view jumped all over the place, in and out of the cockpit. . .it was a demo video. To me, in-game footage is when someone plays the game with a controller and we can watch that unfold on the screen. Until I see someone actually controlling something that looks like the Motorstorm, I'm not going to be convinced of the graphical difference between the two systems.

We've all been burned too many times to fall for E3 videos.

[VGV]

What was it again ? Livin' in denial is bliss http://forums.videogamereview.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif ?
It's only natural, you guys are probably in a state of shock over the PS3s
vastly superior technological capabilities http://forums.videogamereview.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

P.S. And this coming from me ... an ex-PS3 skeptic.

[Cuddly Knife]

Hell, I'm still a skeptic. I totally believe in what Kojima is doing with MGS4 as far as PS3 capabilities, but it's hard to believe the Motorstorm vid, when it feels so much like the Killzone video. Too smoothly scripted, perhaps? I'm not sure, but it just doesn't feel right. Plus, PGR3 is a launch game. Give both systems about three years, and then we might be seeing games like this. When is Motorstorm supposed to come out?

[Pandarbock]

Wrong ... did you check out the in-game footage from E3 ? Same as these
screenshots. In case you're still in doubt here's a few more I found on the Net.

<img src="http://www.pixelrage.ro/games/Motorstorm/screenshots/09050611075422115300.jpg" width=400 height=224>

<img src="http://www.pixelrage.ro/games/Motorstorm/screenshots/09050611080129239200.jpg" width=400 height=224>


P.S. The in cockpit view, could've clued you in.

Sorry to say but those shots look no where close to the obvious FMV shots in the MS vs PGR ones you posted. Also minus the temporal blurring (in the shots that look like actualy in game) the motor storms pictures really don't look that much better than PGR.

[Gadfly2317]

What was it again ? Livin' in denial is bliss http://forums.videogamereview.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif ?
It's only natural, you guys are probably in a state of shock over the PS3s
vastly superior technological capabilities http://forums.videogamereview.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

P.S. And this coming from me ... an ex-PS3 skeptic.

EGM's statement regarding that Motorstorm vid being in-game footage:

"Yeah, right."

[VGV]

After all yer whining, took my time to do some serious investigating. Here's what
I found out (by arriving at the GameSpot Motorstorm video download page). The first
bunch of screenshots were from a DEMO. So you whiners get a point there !

The second batch were from this year's E3. So, these are LEGIT !

So here's what we'll do, I'll use the E3 footage and compare that against
PGR3 ...

<table bgcolor=#000000><tr><td><img src="http://www.pixelrage.ro/games/Motorstorm/screenshots/09050611080129239200.jpg" width=400 height=224></td><td><img src="http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/321/reviews/927245_20051118_screen002.jpg" width=400 height=224></td></tr><table>

And once again ... the difference is HUGE !!! And here's the link to the video
gameplay and demo footage : <a href="http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/driving/motorstorm/media.html" target=_blank>Motorstorm Videos</a>

[Glockstar]

**WHOOSH** That was the sound "it" flying right over VGV's head.

** ... ** ...hmmm, wait, it's too hard to describe what the sound is that the rest of us are going thru, so I guess I'll have to do it in pictures... :mad2:

[Glockstar]

Houston, we have a problem.

[VGV]

Pictures worth more than a thousand words ... look and weep again http://forums.videogamereview.com/images/smilies/cryin.gif
Here's some tissues ... get over it. PS3 is head and shoulders above the Xbox 360 http://forums.videogamereview.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

<table bgcolor=#000000><tr><td><img src="http://www.pixelrage.ro/games/Motorstorm/screenshots/09050611080129239200.jpg" width=400 height=224></td></tr><tr><td><img src="http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/321/reviews/927245_20051118_screen002.jpg" width=400 height=224></td></tr><table>

In this case LITERALLY

[trebor]

Wrong ... did you check out the in-game footage from E3 ? Same as these
screenshots. In case you're still in doubt here's a few more I found on the Net.


<img src="http://www.pixelrage.ro/games/Motorstorm/screenshots/09050611080129239200.jpg" width=400 height=224>




Woah! This must be one of those "camera faces the front of the car" racing games that are all the rage these days. :rolleyes:

Edit: AGHHHH!!! I'M SHRINKING!!

[VGV]

Woah! This must be one of those "camera faces the front of the car" racing games that are all the rage these days. :rolleyes:

Edit: AGHHHH!!! I'M SHRINKING!!

Point is, done with in-game engine (hope you know what that means http://forums.videogamereview.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif)

</table></table>

[VGV]

I think the problem of shrinkage is in an unclosed table tag.
Fixed it Folks. My bad !

[Zilla Man]

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Of course this year was better by the fact that they had actual PS3 games to play.

Warhawk

This game was only 20% done but I tried it anyway. The graphics were definitely next gen. There were all kinds of cool details like the most realist clouds I've ever seen and cool mountain textures. The gameplay at this point simply consisted of targetting other planes while flying around some type of village structure that was intergrated into mountains. This meant plenty of arches and stuff to fly through. There were also power ups/ammo that you could pick up.

So how does the PS3 controller feel? Well, the first thing I noticed was how incredibly light it was. It feels only about 1/2 as heavy as a standard Dual Shock. The lack of rumble motors I suppose.

The tilt mechanics were interesting, The controller was sensitive but not overly so. The main problem I had was the same one I had with the Wii mote; I kept wanting to use the sticks for maneuvering. Also, I don't know how good it'll play in fast and furious air combat. I could definitely see the feature being used in some other games (Monkey Ball would probably be excellent). Hopefully they'll make it optional on most.

The game was really one step above a tech demo. Excellent graphics and effects. If they can get the gameplay up to the first Warhawk, then it'll be something. Right now it's just too early to tell.

Motostorm

To clear things up: yes, the footage you've seen is in game, not pre-rendered. While there wasn't anything as dramatic as the end of last year's video with the car about to flip onto the cyclist, it was damn impressive. It was only 40% complete but I liked what I played. Again, the devil was in the details: particle/dirt effects, smoke, dirt on the vehicles, tread marks (which supposedly will actually affect gameplay in the final version) and such. The demo gameplay was simple rally/drive in a circle stuff. I'm usually not into racing games but I could definitely see myself having fun with this one.

My only caveat is that halfway through my play I realize that Motostorm was missing something blatantly essential to a game like this: the Rumble feature. Let's hope it gets put back in by fall.

Resistance: Fall of Man

I'm a huge FPS fan but wasn't expecting much from this title. It was only when I played it that I saw stuff like random AI encounters that unfolded depending on what actiion you took as well as unusual weapons. Pluys the graphics were excellent. There hasn't been a lot of noise about Resistance this year; probably due to the lackluster video from E3 2005. But let me say this: screw Killzone, this is Sony's Halo killer. And I also got to play a 32 player deathmatch with guys back in the Insomnia headquarters in Santa Monica. It was a lot of fun.

Gran Turismo

Or Gran Turizzzzzzmo as I called it at the show. :p It was a lot like the videos that were shown this year at the Sony Press Conference. Good graphics, realstic racing, online, etc. The main difference is supposedly the pit crews but there weren't any on the demo I played. If you like the others, you'll probably like this. Didn't really do anything for me.

Heavenly Sword

I'm reluctant to call this a fighting game even though it incorporates a lot of elements from the genre. The main character's a hottie with a sword. Remember those old interviews you'd read with programmers where they'd boast about the AI program writtren just for a character's cape or what not? Well, there must be one here for her hair. The game was only 40% done but it seemed to take the best of both Devil May Cry and Prince of Persia and put its own unique spin on it. There are supposed to be more combos and power ups in the final version. I enjoyed the little I played of it. Oh, and I can definitely see this being a must-have for Slade...

PS2

Still a lot of good stuff here. Okami looks awesome. I didn't get to play it this year either but it just keeps looking more and more unusual everytime I see it. I could never see MS doing this type of game -- and if they did I don't think most of their audience would buy it. Rogue Galaxy also looked interesting. Oh, and Gaddy, you might want to pick up Destry All Humans 2 (which I assume is multi-platform). It takes place in several locations and one of those is a faux San Francisco Haight Ashbury district where you must stop an evil madman who's poisoning the water supply with LSD...You ain't seen nothin' until you've seen Crypto the Alien trippin'! :D

PSP

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Better than last year but still far behind the DS. There were a lot more games but I only had time to play two:

Ratchet and Clank: Size Matters

An all new pixel perfect Ratchet and Clank adventure. It looked like it had all the features of the last title but in a new setting. There are stages where you can play each character separately.

PSP Ace Combat

I played the deathmatch version with my buddy but it took us so long to find each other that the combat was a bit anti climactic. Didn't get to play the single player game.

There were a bunch of other games I didn't even get to look at. Gaddy & Trebor, I got a PSP catalog for each of you in the form of an upload chip that has demos and stuff -- so be sure and let me know what you think.

Conclusion

Sony definitely had a better showing than last year as far as the PS3 went (duh). And, unlike MS, they're still very much dedicated to supporting the current gen platform. PSP titles are getting more varied but still have a ways to go.

Drunken Thumbmaster asked me about the real difference between PS3 and 360 games or if there was one. IMHO, the main difference is that I think the PS3 titles I saw looked much more next generation than the 360 games I played this time last year. I'm not saying they're better games. But when I compare Resistance to Perfect Dark Zero or Motorstorm (only 40% done) to PGR3, you can see a definite difference. Whether this is due to the programmers' experience or the hardware, I don't know. But it's definitely there. Like I said before, it's mostly in the details. Whether that'll make a difference in the long run, I don't know. Given the prices Sony ($ony?) is charging for the PS3, the damn games had better at least look good.

So who won the show?

Well, Nintendo definitely was the most popular in terms of what people were curious to see. I dig the Wii but I dig it more for the virtua Console and Gamecube b/c -- and that ain't a bad thing.

Nintendo - Presentation: A -
Games: B

The games are interesting but graphically not much more beyond the cube. But as I said before, they don't have to be. I believe Iwata when he says they're not trying to compete with Sony and MS. The question is whether that will be enough to prevent the infamous Nintendo 3rd party lack of support and the 1st party post launch dry up. I think Wii will be the preferred "2nd console" of choice. If they can keep the Price of a core system to $199 or a game and extra controller to $250, they should be okay. The DS will likely take up any slack. But can they maintain their momentum or will they run out of steam and get overtaken by MS again?


MS had a better booth, more polished, and a bigger selection games. They're reliance on Live and PC ports as well as the b/c debacle are chinks in their armor. Plus they have no killer app to counter the Wii and PS3 launches. By the time Halo 3 does launch, PS3 will be on their 2nd gen of games.So MS needs to step up.

MS - Presentation: B -
Games: B+


I don't think that Sony has to worry about selling out it's 2 million units this year or the oness in the spring. All the tech heads (a lot of them former Xbox owners) are going to want the latest thing. Strangely enough, if PS3 is sold out I think a lot of people may pick up a Wii instead. But can Sony do what no company has done before: stay on top 3 generations in a row?

Sony - Presentation: B
Games: B

I think the real battle is going to be fought in fall of 2007. Because that's when the price drops will occur and most people (myself included) will probably be picking up the systems ( for me, PS3).

I'll be back with some third party stuff and final thoughts. Thanks for being so patient, guys. Post your comments/feedback/pedictions -- I wanna know what you think.

[Glockstar]

To clear things up: yes, the footage you've seen is in game, not pre-rendered.

"Clear things up"... no, you effed things up.

"In-game footage"... omg, that's the stupidest thing I"ve ever heard. Of course it's in-game footage. It better "in-game" footage, or we don't even want to hear about it! I know we're over that pre-rendered bs - that Sony and Square bs. And we better be forevermore. They have no business showing that crap to gamers.

For those of you confused on the terminology here: Pre-rendering is what Square showed last year of some Final Fantasy setting. And what Sony used to show off Killzone. It's movie-type stuff usually created by some seperate firm from the developer of the game, and it's footage that you'll never see in the game.

In-game footage is anything that you see - or will, or could see - in the final game. In the case of the PGR3 pics that VGV showed it's real-time footage of actual gameplay. (One of the pics that VGV showed is replay footage - but in PGR3 the race replays are not at all gussied up and the graphics are the same as what you actually see when you play.) But another type of "in-game" footage are the cutscenes, or cg's, or fmv's (full motion videos), or opening sequences. Every game has them nowadays. And in a lot of games there is a huge difference between the way the "fmv's" look as compared to what the actual game-play graphics are. J-RPGs are a perfect example of this. Another excellent example are the intros to each of the EA Sports games. So to is the opening sequence to Neo Contra (which I should tell you, if you haven't seen it, it is AWESOME). And Crash-n-Burn (which is what that footage of Motorstorm reminds me of).

Hey, it's "in the game", right VGV? :rolleyes:

[Jupiter_x]

Great post Zilla,

I would like to thank you for taking the time and effort to provide some of us who were not quite as lucky to attend the E3 with not only detailed and interesting explanations of what you experienced, but fair grading of each showing and decent photos also!

Some individuals around here just don't appreciate it, but I for one am grateful for what you have done here. Your efforts have not gone unnoticed.

Again thank you!

[Gadfly2317]

Good final wrap up Zilla.

Question. On the Ace Combat PsP demo you played, you didn't say much since you had a hard time finding and killing your buddy, but how did the game look, sound and fly? Were the controls and HUD intuitive?

[VGV]

Great post Zilla Man, thanks for taking your time to give us your first-hand
impressions of this year's E3. Yes I'm a bit jealous you already got hands-on
experience with those great PS3 games. As a gamer I could only be happy that
there's a killerrrrr console on the horizon http://forums.videogamereview.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

Man, I'm keeping my fingers crossed ... please let there be a rumble feature
when the PS3 is finalized. Heck Let there be an optional rumble feature for
all I care ! Like you stated a game like Motorstorm would greatly benefit from
this feature. Keeping my fingers crossed !

O yeah, to Glockstar : guess you don't know the difference between "in game"
sec and an "in-game engine". Get to know the difference between these two terms
first before spewing out crap like "it's all in the game" and thinking it's a smart
statement (in case you don't get it yet, that was a truly moronic post http://forums.videogamereview.com/images/icons/icon13.gif)

[Jupiter_x]

O yeah, to Glockstar : guess you don't know the difference between "in game"
sec and an "in-game engine". Get to know the difference between these two terms
first before spewing out crap like "it's all in the game" and thinking it's a smart
statement (in case you don't get it yet, that was a truly moronic post http://forums.videogamereview.com/images/icons/icon13.gif)

Agreed, from a moderator no less!

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

After all yer whining, took my time to do some serious investigating. Here's what
I found out (by arriving at the GameSpot Motorstorm video download page). The first
bunch of screenshots were from a DEMO. So you whiners get a point there !

The second batch were from this year's E3. So, these are LEGIT !

So here's what we'll do, I'll use the E3 footage and compare that against
PGR3 ...

<table bgcolor=#000000><tr><td><img src="http://www.pixelrage.ro/games/Motorstorm/screenshots/09050611080129239200.jpg" width=400 height=224></td><td><img src="http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/321/reviews/927245_20051118_screen002.jpg" width=400 height=224></td></tr><table>

And once again ... the difference is HUGE !!! And here's the link to the video
gameplay and demo footage : <a href="http://www.gamespot.com/ps3/driving/motorstorm/media.html" target=_blank>Motorstorm Videos</a>

You sir are an idiot. If you are going to do Screenshot comparisons be fair it gives you a little bit of credibilty. You had to go out your way to find that PGR3 pic. And to sit there and act as if that's indicative of the 360 is B.S. and you know it. That SS doesn't look as good as PGR2 on the Xbox.

You are reaching thelastword levels. I understand if you have a preference but please make a sensible debate taking the worst 360 pic you can find in the world and using it for a graphic debate is worthless. What If I compared those god awful Lost Kingdom (?) shots with Shots of Oblivion? And tried to say that was indicative of the PS3 graphical power?

[VGV]

Comparing a first gen 360 racer against a first gen PS3 racer. Like it or
not : It's a fair comparison.

If there's already such a HUGE gap between first gen titles on both platforms
sir, one can only conclude that the difference will become more pronounced as
the second wave of PS3 titles arrive. Yes it's tough being an XboT these days ...
face it, the PS3 is way more advanced than the 360. So quit livin' in denial
and embrace this new reality boy !

About the PGR3 screenshot : Knock yourself out ! Go to GameSpot and watch
the PGR3 screenshots ... all LEGIT, as is the one I posted.

P.S. Thanks Jupiter_x, meant a lot to me.

[trebor]

Nice work, Zilla. Loved that you posted photos this year.

VGV, quit forgetting to complete your brackets so the threads don't get so sqeezed, please.

[VGV]

Already posted that prob. So once again ... stop quoting those posts in this
thread where I've posted those pics !
</table>

[VGV]

Testing testing 1 2 3 .... http://forums.videogamereview.com/images/smilies/mad2.gif

Problem fixed.

[mandark]

Thanks for the great info Zilla. We sure appreciate the time and patience that you are spending to inform us here. I hope some of the miscreants here doesn't make you not want to cover the next E3's for us.

BTW, any information on the PS3's capabilities as a PC replacement? I read in Tomshardaware.com that Sony is pushing to make the PS3 more of a PC although this might be a knee jerk reaction to the mostly negative press they are getting for pricing the PS3 the way they did. Any inside info on this?

[Zilla Man]

"Clear things up"... no, you effed things up.

"In-game footage"... omg, that's the stupidest thing I"ve ever heard. Of course it's in-game footage. It better "in-game" footage, or we don't even want to hear about it! I know we're over that pre-rendered bs - that Sony and Square bs. And we better be forevermore. They have no business showing that crap to gamers.

Okay, let me make this clear so even a logic-challenged, nitpickinging-to-distract-from-the fact-that-it-looks-miles-beteer-than-any-360-launch-title-Bolshevik like you can understand it:

It's ACTUAL GAMEPLAY FOOTAGE!!! :rolleyes:

Yeesh!

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Comparing a first gen 360 racer against a first gen PS3 racer. Like it or
not : It's a fair comparison.

If there's already such a HUGE gap between first gen titles on both platforms
sir, one can only conclude that the difference will become more pronounced as
the second wave of PS3 titles arrive. Yes it's tough being an XboT these days ...
face it, the PS3 is way more advanced than the 360. So quit livin' in denial
and embrace this new reality boy !

About the PGR3 screenshot : Knock yourself out ! Go to GameSpot and watch
the PGR3 screenshots ... all LEGIT, as is the one I posted.

P.S. Thanks Jupiter_x, meant a lot to me.

If you can actually sit there and say that that screenshot is indicative of the 360 theres no point going any further because you are obviously out of your mind. That screen shot isn't indicative of what PGR3 looks like and for you to argue any further proves my point.

I'm not saying that the PS3 isn't superior techwise (although I'm yet to be convinced) I'm just saying you made a stupid fanboy comparison using those specific screenshots. As for comparing PS3 first gen games to Xbox first gen games it can be done I guess but the fact remains PS3 won't be competeing with Xbox first Gen it will be competng with it's second gen. Halo competed against MGS2 (and won) Not Xsquad.

[Gadfly2317]

Okay, let me make this clear so even a logic-challenged, nitpickinging-to-distract-from-the fact-that-it-looks-miles-beteer-than-any-360-launch-title-Bolshevik like you can understand it:

It's ACTUAL GAMEPLAY FOOTAGE!!! :rolleyes:

Yeesh!

So in Motorstorm, you play by looking backward at the cars on the track? Of the meager 15 pics posted at IGN, not one of them looks like they are shot from someone playing the game, i.e. virtually all shots from weird angles and none with a HUD, and the video montage is so MTV fast-cut from angle to angle--from helicopter view, to backwards view, to cock-eyed cab view--that you can understand our skepticism.

I wish someone would post a nice, plain clip of an actual segment of the game being played. As is, it looks like a blast and the motion blurring looks cool. The clean, crisp city-scapes of PGR3 are nothing new and we all know the game was rushed in order to come out LAST YEAR.

But I've been had too many times by Sony to just believe a video montage is how the actual game will ultimately look and feel; and also one well-done title with the cool use of motion blurring is not enough to persuade me that the Ps3 is capable of massively better graphics than the 360. Maybe it is, but last year's PGR3 Gameplay vs Motorstorm Press Montage is not enough.

[VGV]

If you can actually sit there and say that that screenshot is indicative of the 360 theres no point going any further because you are obviously out of your mind. That screen shot isn't indicative of what PGR3 looks like and for you to argue any further proves my point.

I'm not saying that the PS3 isn't superior techwise (although I'm yet to be convinced) I'm just saying you made a stupid fanboy comparison using those specific screenshots. As for comparing PS3 first gen games to Xbox first gen games it can be done I guess but the fact remains PS3 won't be competeing with Xbox first Gen it will be competng with it's second gen. Halo competed against MGS2 (and won) Not Xsquad.

Did you hop on over to GameSpot as I suggested ? Did you take a look at
the screenshots ? All screenshots are of the same game ... PGR3. All are
the same quality.

You have a problem sir, being a bit paranoid perhaps ? Do you really
think I have nothing better to do than to sit here and waste my friggin'
time looking for, as you called it the worst PGR3 screenshot ? Get real !

Will PS3 games be competing against 2nd gen 360 games ? You bet. Is it
fair to compare first gen titles on both platforms of the same genre ?
You bet it is ... for only by using this manner of comparison can we
observe the true GAP between the 360 and PS3 platform.

Here's what I'll add : developer's imaginations are only limited by the
platform they're developing for. Technical limitations hamper them from
realizing their true vision most of the time. That's why I as a gamer can
only be very excited about an upcoming console, in this case the PS3, that
will allow game creators to come yet another step closer to fulfilling their
true potential.

You sir, don't give a crap about these matters. For you it's all about the
brandname of your console. You are a true fanboy. Me, I'm excited about the
new possibilities this new piece of hardware (PS3) is going to offer game
developers ... and in the end this can only benefit those who give a damn
about gaming ... the so-called gamers.

P.S. Hope you possess the cranial capacity to process this information mr.
fanboy.

[Cuddly Knife]

IMO, those are pretty busted-assed pics of PGR3. I had the game, and it looked a hell of a lot better than the pics posted here. It really looks Ridge Racer 360 quality to me(pics posted earlier). I don't have high-def TV, but the screen displaying PGR3 on my tube looks better than the pic and it's almost always the other way around when I see gaming pics.

Maybe something like these would've been more fair.
http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/286/reviews/927245_20051014_screen001.jpg
http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/257/927245_20050915_screen010.jpg
http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/257/927245_20050915_screen001.jpg
edit-damn, that's huge!

[VGV]

<table bgcolor=#660000 cellpadding=0 cellspacing=0 width=800><tr><td colspan=2><font face="verdana" size=4 color=#FFFFFF><b>Pre-Rendered</b></font></td></tr><tr><td><img src="http://z.about.com/d/playstation/1/5/O/3/MotorStorm_01.jpg" width=400 height=224></td><td><img src="http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/images/2005/257/927245_20050915_screen002.jpg" width=400 height=224></td></tr><tr><td><font face="verdana" size=2 color=#FFFF00><b>Motorstorm</b></font></td><td><font face="verdana" size=2 color=#FFFF00><b>PGR3</b></font></td></tr></table>

Nice try Cuddly ... all those pics you posted are pre-rendered.

P.S. Yes brackets closed.

[Gadfly2317]

Nice try Cuddly ... all those pics you posted are pre-rendered.



I think that was the point. You keep posting these pics of Motorstorm that clearly are not shots of gameplay, and expect us to just believe that's what the game itself is going to look like while you play it.

Granted, the Motorstorm developers have created a more compelling set of visuals and animations compared to the relatively unimaginitve PGR3, but I see no evidence at this point to believe it is due to solely to technical system superiority, rather than better art design and programming on the part of the Motorstorm team.

[VGV]

I think that was the point. You keep posting these pics of Motorstorm that clearly are not shots of gameplay, and expect us to just believe that's what the game itself is going to look like while you play it.

Granted, the Motorstorm developers have created a more compelling set of visuals and animations compared to the relatively unimaginitve PGR3, but I see no evidence at this point to believe it is due to solely to technical system superiority, rather than better art design and programming on the part of the Motorstorm team.

Henceforth I shall place ye in thy category of logic-challenged, nitpickinging-to-distract-from-the
fact-that-it-looks-miles-beteer-than-any-360-launch-title-Bolshevik

Once again. Motorstorm in-game engine pics ... LEGIT. PGR3 in-game engine pics ... LEGIT. If you wish
to hold on to some crazy conspiracy theory that it is not so then I'll demote you to :

PARANOID, logic-challenged, nitpickinging-to-distract-from-the fact-that-it-looks-miles-beteer-than-any-360-
launch-title-Bolshevik

Some folks are truly losing their minds here ... let's attribute it to post PS3-E3 can't believe it's actual
in-game footage traumatic shock syndrome.

P.S. Sorry for stealing your line, twice no less, Zilla Man http://forums.videogamereview.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

[Glockstar]

Once again. Motorstorm in-game engine pics ... LEGIT. PGR3 in-game engine pics ... LEGIT.

Once again, "in-game" is different than "game-play". Gawd! :mad2:

(Again, thanks, Zilla. :rolleyes5: )

[VGV]

Once again, "in-game" is different than "game-play". Gawd! :mad2:

(Again, thanks, Zilla. :rolleyes5: )

The in-game engine produces the actual gameplay graphics. The graphics you see
on-screen while actually playing the game (gameplay) are rendered real-time by the
in-game engine.

Some games use pre-rendered scenes to display cut-scenes (CGs) ... in this case you
can clearly tell the difference between cut-scenes and actual gameplay graphics (rendered
by the in-game graphics engine)

On the other hand, some games use the in-game engine to render cut-scenes.In this case
you can't tell the difference between cut-scenes and actual gameplay graphics. Because the
same engine is being used for both graphics and cut-scenes.

P.S. Hope you get it now http://forums.videogamereview.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

[Cuddly Knife]

Is Motorstorm a launch title?

[VGV]

Is Motorstorm a launch title?

As far as I know Motorstorm is a launch title. I hope ... I really
hope there's an optional rumble feature with this game !

P.S. <a href="http://www.britishgaming.co.uk/?p=724" target=_blank>Here's a link</a>

[Gadfly2317]

Henceforth I shall place ye in thy category of logic-challenged, nitpickinging-to-distract-from-the
fact-that-it-looks-miles-beteer-than-any-360-launch-title-Bolshevik

Once again. Motorstorm in-game engine pics ... LEGIT. PGR3 in-game engine pics ... LEGIT. If you wish
to hold on to some crazy conspiracy theory that it is not so then I'll demote you to :

PARANOID, logic-challenged, nitpickinging-to-distract-from-the fact-that-it-looks-miles-beteer-than-any-360-
launch-title-Bolshevik

Some folks are truly losing their minds here ... let's attribute it to post PS3-E3 can't believe it's actual
in-game footage traumatic shock syndrome.

P.S. Sorry for stealing your line, twice no less, Zilla Man http://forums.videogamereview.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif

First, bite my shiny metal ass.

What's the conspiracy theory? The simple statement that I'm not convinced, and that I stated reasons for that? Hey, I hope that's what the final gameplay portion of the game actually looks like, but if it is, then how come EVERY screen shot is from a goofy angle with no HUD, and how come the video is a rapid fire montage?

Maybe I'm just mentally challenged as you suggest. If so, help me a long and post a link to a clip of someone actually playing the game, controlling it, and no cut-aways, just us watching someone race in the Motorstorm.

Again, pardon me for not swallowing Sony graphics hype with no actual evidence.

[Cuddly Knife]

Here you go, Gad. Under the pics is a link to get to the DL, just scroll down on that page to find DL choices.
http://www.playsyde.com/news_2987_en.html

Graphics are not near anything close to being what the trailers showed them to be. It looks like a prettied up version of MX VS ATV anyways. There is better collision damage in Burnout Revenge. And more sparks, too! BTW, WTF are there sparks flying out from under a car when racing on desert? That gameplay footage does not look light-years beyond what PGR3 is at.

[VGV]

Here you go, Gad. Under the pics is a link to get to the DL, just scroll down on that page to find DL choices.
http://www.playsyde.com/news_2987_en.html

Graphics are not near anything close to being what the trailers showed them to be. It looks like a prettied up version of MX VS ATV anyways. There is better collision damage in Burnout Revenge. And more sparks, too! BTW, WTF are there sparks flying out from under a car when racing on desert? That gameplay footage does not look light-years beyond what PGR3 is at.

How interesting ... grasping for straws I see. MotorStorm CamCorder Still Shots !
This has got to be the most hilarious post I've ever seen on this message board.

Let me ask you this ... do you know at what resolution this camcorder records ?
And do you know that this resolution is the resolution at which these still shots
were taken ? Do you even know what the hell resolution means ?

When you have the answer we'll debate further.

P.S. That gameplay footage (let me use this term before mr. oversensitive gets
another emotional episode on us) from the E3 floor, is the same Gadfly keeps calling
pre-rendered.

[Glockstar]

Look who's living in denial now. What are you paranoid? In a state of shock? You can hold on to some crazy conspiracy if you want to, but that video of actual game-play footage is LEGIT! The game's a yawner! Haw!

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Did you hop on over to GameSpot as I suggested ? Did you take a look at
the screenshots ? All screenshots are of the same game ... PGR3. All are
the same quality.

You have a problem sir, being a bit paranoid perhaps ? Do you really
think I have nothing better to do than to sit here and waste my friggin'
time looking for, as you called it the worst PGR3 screenshot ? Get real !

Will PS3 games be competing against 2nd gen 360 games ? You bet. Is it
fair to compare first gen titles on both platforms of the same genre ?
You bet it is ... for only by using this manner of comparison can we
observe the true GAP between the 360 and PS3 platform.

Here's what I'll add : developer's imaginations are only limited by the
platform they're developing for. Technical limitations hamper them from
realizing their true vision most of the time. That's why I as a gamer can
only be very excited about an upcoming console, in this case the PS3, that
will allow game creators to come yet another step closer to fulfilling their
true potential.

You sir, don't give a crap about these matters. For you it's all about the
brandname of your console. You are a true fanboy. Me, I'm excited about the
new possibilities this new piece of hardware (PS3) is going to offer game
developers ... and in the end this can only benefit those who give a damn
about gaming ... the so-called gamers.

P.S. Hope you possess the cranial capacity to process this information mr.
fanboy.

Look you DumbF^%$ I haven't made one comment on the abilities of the PS3 compared to the 360. All I'm saying is you used a bullshiz pick to prove your point.

That simple that pic DOES NOT represent accurately what PGR3 game looks like. I don't give a shiz if Gamespot has 1000 pics of that quality they are bad pics. You know that yet you are still using those pics to prove your point.

Here's a comparsion for you

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/img_3593008.html

http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/490/490038/img_2794895.html

[VGV]

Look who's living in denial now. What are you paranoid? In a state of shock? You can hold on to some crazy conspiracy if you want to, but that video of actual game-play footage is LEGIT! The game's a yawner! Haw!

Glockstar, go back to page one of this thread. You'll find a post where I posted the following
sentence : And once again ... the difference is HUGE !!! And here's the link to the video
gameplay and demo footage : Motorstorm Videos

Go check out the gameplay videos, same gameplay videos from E3 floor. As for taking
CamCorder stillshots and using them for screenshots. Nah, go back to page 1 and look
at the high res screenshots of both PGR3 and Motorstorm.

P.S. You truly are in a mental state.

[Jupiter_x]

P.S. Thanks Jupiter_x, meant a lot to me.

Anytime. BTW, Motorstorm looks fantastic. I'll check out gamespot and see this in action. But I can't deny that PGR 3 looks downright incredible aswell. If this is any indication of what these machines can produce? I can only imagine what Forza 2 or GT 5 (Complete) would be like!


On side note:

One thing that really pisses me off is when a poster takes time out of his/her day to provide info of any kind and gets flamed.
Zilla is a fantastic poster on these boards and I respect him. But regardless if he is or isn't, does this warrant being put down or flamed? This is definitely not the first time I have seen this, Zilla among other members have been put down, called fanboy, idiot, noob for simply providing some kind of news, gossip, pics or rumors.

One day these forums might dry up and members won't want to take the time and post. There will be a very small group of members and new members will not feel welcome!

Zilla, I said it before and I stand by it. I appreciate what you do here and have done here in the past. Your coverage on E3 was exemplary, as was last years! Keep up the fantastic work don't let a few individuals ruin it for the rest of us. This also goes for anyone who takes their own valuable time to share with the rest of what they know.

Peace.

[VGV]

Look you DumbF^%$ I haven't made one comment on the abilities of the PS3 compared to the 360. All I'm saying is you used a bullshiz pick to prove your point.

That simple that pic DOES NOT represent accurately what PGR3 game looks like. I don't give a shiz if Gamespot has 1000 pics of that quality they are bad pics. You know that yet you are still using those pics to prove your point.

Here's a comparsion for you

http://media.ps3.ign.com/media/814/814614/img_3593008.html

http://media.xbox360.ign.com/media/490/490038/img_2794895.html

PGR3 supposedly was a graphics showcase title for the Xbox 360 launch. Untold Legends
for the PS3 ... is this a graphics showcase title ? How far in development is it ?

My point : I compared launch graphics showcase title racers against each other.

You, come up with Untold Legends vs Kameo. Is Untold Legends a graphics showcase
title sir ?

[VGV]

Anytime. BTW, Motorstorm looks fantastic. I'll check out gamespot and see this in action. But I can't deny that PGR 3 looks downright incredible aswell.

One thing that really pisses me off is when a poster takes time out of his/her day to provide info of any kind and gets flamed.
Zilla is a fantastic poster on these boards and I respect him. But regardless if he is or isn't, does this warrant being put down or flamed? This is definitely not the first time I have seen this, Zilla among other members have been put down, called fanboy, idiot noob for simply providing some kind of news, gossip, pics or rumors.

One day these forums might dry up and members won't want to take the time and post. There will be a very small group of members and new members will not feel welcome!

Zilla, I said it before and I stand by it. I appreciate what you do here and have done here in the past. Your coverage on E3 was exemplary, as was last years! Keep up the fantastic work don't let a few individuals ruin it for the rest of us. This also goes for anyone who takes their own valuable time to share with the rest of what they know.

Peace.


Thanks ! I'm pissed too.

Zilla Man went out of his way to provide us with great first-hand
experience from the E3 floor. The reason I like it ... it's from a
gamer's perspective and not a from some paid reporter's perspective
as is de rigeur.

That's truly refreshing and unique in this commercial age we live in.
Some people just don't get it ... I sure hope Zilla Man will not let
a set of buffoons keep the rest of us from enjoying his special and
unique (gamer's perspective) E3 coverage.

P.S. I have nothing but the utter most respect for the man. It's a
labor of love, insightful and free from commercial ties and truly
something unique on the Net.

[Cuddly Knife]

How interesting ... grasping for straws I see. MotorStorm CamCorder Still Shots !
This has got to be the most hilarious post I've ever seen on this message board.

Let me ask you this ... do you know at what resolution this camcorder records ?
And do you know that this resolution is the resolution at which these still shots
were taken ? Do you even know what the hell resolution means ?

When you have the answer we'll debate further.

P.S. That gameplay footage (let me use this term before mr. oversensitive gets
another emotional episode on us) from the E3 floor, is the same Gadfly keeps calling
pre-rendered.
Hey, don't tell me crap about pics, I was posting this link so people can see the video. Pictures mean nothing in the video game world, but the video says it all, which I guess you didn't see. Compare that video to raw PRG3 video and then it'll be a differnt story, methinks. I don't even know why you're giving me guff, since you should know by my posts that I want the PS3 as much as any Sony fanboy on this site.

It's actually about time that there's a lively thread here on SW again!

[VGV]

Hey, don't tell me crap about pics, I was posting this link so people can see the video. Pictures mean nothing in the video game world, but the video says it all, which I guess you didn't see. Compare that video to raw PRG3 video and then it'll be a differnt story, methinks. I don't even know why you're giving me guff, since you should know by my posts that I want the PS3 as much as any Sony fanboy on this site.

It's actually about time that there's a lively thread here on SW again!

OK, sorry ... I thought you posted it for the pics also. Well, thankfully you didn't
stoop that low. About the video, I also posted links to the E3 floor video footage
of Motorstorm, so yes I did see that video footage. That's why I posted the high
res pics of the gameplay footage on page 1 of this thread ... to compare them
to the highres GameSpot pics of PGR3 (see page 1).

P.S. Lively OK, but there's a limit bro.

[Jupiter_x]

PGR3 supposedly was a graphics showcase title for the Xbox 360 launch. Untold Legends
for the PS3 ... is this a graphics showcase title ? How far in development is it ?

My point : I compared launch graphics showcase title racers against each other.

You, come up with Untold Legends vs Kameo. Is Untold Legends a graphics showcase
title sir ?

If MGS 4 is anykind of indication of what PS3 can deliver? Motorstorm could very well look as good or close to this while actually playing, there will be no competition. That cockpit view is just breathtaking.

Now one thing we must consider is, MGS 4 is Kojima, we know that is what it will look like. Honestly I think Motorstorm will take a small hit while playing the actual game. Mind you, I don't like setting my hopes to high simply because I like to be surprised.

[Cuddly Knife]

If MGS 4 is anykind of indication of what PS3 can deliver? Motorstorm could very well look as good or close to this while actually playing, there will be no competition. That cockpit view is just breathtaking.
That's the whole thing though. Looking at the games that will be coming out for the 360, don't you think that MGS4 could be done on the 360? So, by my retarded logic, it would appear that Motor Storm could also be done on the 360, making this whole argument useless because it was about how much better it looked compared to 360 racers. I could also be a whiny mcwhine and say that the graphics only look better because the PS3 has a year to get better tech for the PS3, but I'm not that lame. Or am I? No.

[Jupiter_x]

since you should know by my posts that I want the PS3 as much as any Sony fanboy on this site.

It's actually about time that there's a lively thread here on SW again!

But you are a respectable poster as are most on VGR: Fivespot, Beatslayer, Gaddy Trebor just to name a few.....Oh hey Beer, Your in the circle too!
I have respect for you guys not because of your system prefrence....I mean who cares! Should I diss three of my friends I've known for the last 15 years because they play Xbox and not PS2? C'mon!


Lol, we do need some action around here.

[VGV]

If MGS 4 is anykind of indication of what PS3 can deliver? Motorstorm could very well look as good or close to this while actually playing, there will be no competition. That cockpit view is just breathtaking.

Now one thing we must consider is, MGS 4 is Kojima, we know that is what it will look like. Honestly I think Motorstorm will take a small hit while playing the actual game. Mind you, I don't like setting my hopes to high simply because I like to be surprised.

Up until now I've only seen videos of the MGS4 trailer. So I can't
be sure if the graphics are done using the in-game graphics engine
or if they're purely pre-rendered. Guess We'll have to wait for
actual gameplay footage to surface. I'll keep my eyes open !

Yes, I agree ... when I first saw the Motorstorm gameplay footage
I was floored ! Dang ! In the cockpit view vid, there's a part where
the player's driving behind some guy on an ATV. Somewhere along the
way the ATV's driver falls off his vehicle ... it looks friggin'
realistic the way he wildly rolls over the track after his little
accident (limb movement everything is on the money) ... and yes, the
player drives right over the poor fella ! OUCH !!!!

Parts of cars come undone upon impact and fly towards you while
driving in the dirt ... the computer controlled opponents are friggin'
aggresive in their driving style. It's pure mayhem on the track and the
whole proceeding looks so believable, as if you're truly partaking in
this mayhem ... looks like true adrenaline inducing experience.

Judging from the framerates I've seen so far from all PS3 gameplay
footage, the PS3's graphical hardware is truly phenomenal. I know
what you mean by saying you don't want to be disappointed by setting
your hopes to high, but IMO once MotorStorm is finalized it's better
than what we've seen so far ... simply because I've seen how smooth
the PS3 framerate stays in some pretty taxing situations.

P.S. I wonder what kind of soundtrack they'll include with MotorStorm.

[Jupiter_x]

That's the whole thing though. Looking at the games that will be coming out for the 360, don't you think that MGS4 could be done on the 360? So, by my retarded logic, it would appear that Motor Storm could also be done on the 360, making this whole argument useless because it was about how much better it looked compared to 360 racers. I could also be a whiny mcwhine and say that the graphics only look better because the PS3 has a year to get better tech for the PS3, but I'm not that lame. Or am I? No.

MGS 4 on 360? No that's blasphemy :JK:

Could it be done? I think so! 360 is only 6 months old and we all know how these systems improve over time. Look at SplinterCell CT , Halflife 2 ,NG, Farcry Conker on Xbox. After seeing how incredible Halo looked at launch I didn't know how much better Xbox could possibly perform...yet it did in a big way.

On the flipside, Look at some of the visuals on PS2 how they started out and how they look today. Path of Neo and Splinter Cell CT acutally have Bump/Normal Mapping. Black is so good it feels like an Xbox only game (IMO)
God of War, DMC 3 are a few more examples of PS2's raw power. Not as high as Xbox but good none the less.

Back to my main topic. Xbox 360 could do MotorStorm, MGS 4 just like what we have seen on the pics and vids. I'll even go as far as saying Killzone could be done on both machines....absured? Why???? These Machines are New.
In the next 3 years we will see games just like Killzone. I watched the KZ vid just last week. After playing some of the latest titles on PC and whatnot, I don't think we are far off. These machines will do just that!

In the end I think PS3 will have an overall advantage in terms of Physics and Visuals but Like I said in other posts 360 is no slouch!

[Jupiter_x]

Up until now I've only seen videos of the MGS4 trailer. So I can't
be sure if the graphics are done using the in-game graphics engine
or if they're purely pre-rendered. Guess We'll have to wait for
actual gameplay footage to surface. I'll keep my eyes open !

Yes, I agree ... when I first saw the Motorstorm gameplay footage
I was floored ! Dang ! In the cockpit view vid, there's a part where
the player's driving behind some guy on an ATV. Somewhere along the
way the ATV's driver falls off his vehicle ... it looks friggin'
realistic the way he wildly rolls over the track after his little
accident (limb movement everything is on the money) ... and yes, the
player drives right over the poor fella ! OUCH !!!!

Parts of cars come undone upon impact and fly towards you while
driving in the dirt ... the computer controlled opponents are friggin'
aggresive in their driving style. It's pure mayhem on the track and the
whole proceeding looks so believable, as if you're truly partaking in
this mayhem ... looks like true adrenaline inducing experience.

Judging from the framerates I've seen so far from all PS3 gameplay
footage, the PS3's graphical hardware is truly phenomenal. I know
what you mean by saying you don't want to be disappointed by setting
your hopes to high, but IMO once MotorStorm is finalized it's better
than what we've seen so far ... simply because I've seen how smooth
the PS3 framerate stays in some pretty taxing situations.

P.S. I wonder what kind of soundtrack they'll include with MotorStorm.

Yes it is, and the fanboy in me just wants to boast about it. I don't care what the cost of PS3 is. Not to brag, but cost is just not a factor. I even told my wife the cost and she just said "Hey It's what you like" Then she bought a sick new motorbike. Now she wants me to get one.....%$%#!

Uh...anyway, I am finding now that with what I have seen so far I am happy to be in Sony's camp. I want to break out of my RPG/FPS mold and get back into some Driving/Flying games. Warhawk looks damn sweet and the thought of playing Motorstorm among other driving games with a next gen wheel is truly exciting!

[Gadfly2317]

How interesting ... grasping for straws I see. MotorStorm CamCorder Still Shots !
This has got to be the most hilarious post I've ever seen on this message board.

Let me ask you this ... do you know at what resolution this camcorder records ?
And do you know that this resolution is the resolution at which these still shots
were taken ? Do you even know what the hell resolution means ?

When you have the answer we'll debate further.

P.S. That gameplay footage (let me use this term before mr. oversensitive gets
another emotional episode on us) from the E3 floor, is the same Gadfly keeps calling
pre-rendered.

That's not straws, THAT is gameplay footage, and you can mince around resolution all you want--the game will have better res than that--but that shows the Hud, and what the game play action consists of and looks like. Why does it bother you so much. . . it still looks good, but only an asstard could have ever believed that press montage was what the actual game was going to be like. If you use a discerning eye, you can see that the game looks cool, but that the major factor in it grabbing you is the nice use of the motion blur gimmick.

[VGV]

Yes it is, and the fanboy in me just wants to boast about it. I don't care what the cost of PS3 is. Not to brag, but cost is just not a factor. I even told my wife the cost and she just said "Hey It's what you like" Then she bought a sick new motorbike. Now she wants me to get one.....%$%#!

Uh...anyway, I am finding now that with what I have seen so far I am happy to be in Sony's camp. I want to break out of my RPG/FPS mold and get back into some Driving/Flying games. Warhawk looks damn sweet and the thought of playing Motorstorm among other driving games with a next gen wheel is truly exciting!

You're married ... you are a very brave man. I nearly got married a few times, but at
the last moment, I ask myself "Do I really want to spend the rest of my life with this
woman ?" The answer always "Don't think so ... love to be free"

Thankfully money's not an issue, so the PS3 price isn't really a factor. I've always
enjoyed gaming, so the PS3 is really something I'm looking forward to. I really
wonder what developers will come up with this generation. They have tons of power
at their disposal !

Funny that you mention motorbikes, really. I used to own one, long time ago. Nothing
beats the feeling of freedom and speed when you're driving a motorcycle. This year I
was thinking of getting this one (just had to post this pic http://forums.videogamereview.com/images/smilies/biggrin.gif)

<img src="http://powersports.honda.com/images/model/model_images/Motorcycles/2006/CBR1000RR_Candy_Blue_Yellow.jpg">

[Zilla Man]

The small window can't even begin to do this game justice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9-oLUibV8c&search=Motorstorm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwvAJFSbZkg&search=Motorstorm

If you guys still think it's prerendered then there's not a whole lot we can do about it. :rolleyes:

[Zilla Man]

Up until now I've only seen videos of the MGS4 trailer. So I can't
be sure if the graphics are done using the in-game graphics engine
or if they're purely pre-rendered. Guess We'll have to wait for
actual gameplay footage to surface. I'll keep my eyes open !

Everything shown in the MGS4 trailers is in-game (according to Konami and one of Kojima's programmers). It was the same way back in 2000 with MGS2.

[Zilla Man]

Good final wrap up Zilla.

Question. On the Ace Combat PsP demo you played, you didn't say much since you had a hard time finding and killing your buddy, but how did the game look, sound and fly? Were the controls and HUD intuitive?

Thanks, Gaddy.

They were pretty similar to the ACE CoMBAT'S I'd played on the PS2 -- but I've never played one for more than a few seconds. The controls seemed fine but I had no idea what I was doing. My friend, on the other hand, has the last 3 ACE COMBAT games so he seemed to enjoy it.

It looked like a pixel perfect port of a PS2 ACE COMBAT totle. I couldn't really hear anything due to all the noise (or maybe they had the volume turned down. You were able to switch your POV from cockpit to exterior on the fly.

[Zilla Man]

Anytime. BTW, Motorstorm looks fantastic. I'll check out gamespot and see this in action. But I can't deny that PGR 3 looks downright incredible aswell. If this is any indication of what these machines can produce? I can only imagine what Forza 2 or GT 5 (Complete) would be like!


On side note:

One thing that really pisses me off is when a poster takes time out of his/her day to provide info of any kind and gets flamed.
Zilla is a fantastic poster on these boards and I respect him. But regardless if he is or isn't, does this warrant being put down or flamed? This is definitely not the first time I have seen this, Zilla among other members have been put down, called fanboy, idiot, noob for simply providing some kind of news, gossip, pics or rumors.

One day these forums might dry up and members won't want to take the time and post. There will be a very small group of members and new members will not feel welcome!

Zilla, I said it before and I stand by it. I appreciate what you do here and have done here in the past. Your coverage on E3 was exemplary, as was last years! Keep up the fantastic work don't let a few individuals ruin it for the rest of us. This also goes for anyone who takes their own valuable time to share with the rest of what they know.

Peace.

Thanks, Jupiter. :thumbsup:

Yeah, you can tell who the insecure trollz are by how they attack without being the least bit constructive. They're not fooling anyone.

[Zilla Man]

Nice work, Zilla. Loved that you posted photos this year.

VGV, quit forgetting to complete your brackets so the threads don't get so sqeezed, please.

Thanks, Trebor. I'll be posting a few more later this week. And I also have a PSP/DS question I want you, Gaddy, and the rest of the board to chime in on. :cool:

[Cuddly Knife]

Everything shown in the MGS4 trailers is in-game (according to Konami and one of Kojima's programmers). It was the same way back in 2000 with MGS2.
That's exactly why I know it'll look that way when it comes out. This is one series where the games have always met or beaten the hype.

[Mochan]

MGS4's trailers are in-game. One of the trailers even stutters with the framerate (the one where Snake is fighting two of those walking machines and used the camo suit). The game's engine obviously is not fully done yet.

[trebor]

And I also have a PSP/DS question I want you, Gaddy, and the rest of the board to chime in on. :cool:

Please ask away. I'm not an expert on anything PSP related, but I'm pretty confident I can answer any question you have about the DS.

[Cuddly Knife]

The small window can't even begin to do this game justice:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9-oLUibV8c&search=Motorstorm

If you guys still think it's prerendered then there's not a whole lot we can do about it. :rolleyes:
I doubt anyone will be calling this footage pre-rendered. The graphics are not near anything that the pre-rendered footage has. The also game has a stiffness that can only come from actual gameplay, if you know what I mean. Rendered footage looks too fluid.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Few things. First I honestly don't think MGS4 looks far and beyond everything else. The trailer was most impressive because of the art and the direction. From a technical standpoint I don't see all the hoopla. What is it doing that no other game is doing. But It's MGS4 and people have a love affair with this game. I preorderd a PS2 off the strength of the MGS2 trailer and felt I was let down. Until they change the controls (which are the worst in any 3rd person action game next to RE) and camera I have only slight interest. SC for me baby!

To: VGV

As for my comparsion of Untold Legends and Kameo the developer in the latest issue of OPM said Kameo was the graphic bar they were shooting for. So I compared them. And yes PGR3 is a graphic showcase for the 360 but can you not get it through your thick head, maybe if I threw the PS3 batarang prototype at you then you will get it. You didn't do a real PGR3 comparison because that pic didn't do the game justice. If you want to compare the two fine but do it the right way. Do you understand me now. Get off your knees raise your hand and maybe you can catch the point??

P.S. Notice I've never dogged the PS3 capabilites(in this thread) I won't until it's released and only then if it doesn't live up to the hype. I didn't even say Motorstorm doesn't look better. It definitely looks more fun!

[VGV]

Zilla Man & Mochan :

I went back and watched the MGS4 trailer, now knowing it's being rendered
real-time by the in-game engine. Ummmmm ... give me a few secs to recover
from my state of shock AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH !!! DANG !!!
WFT ??? Tell me I'm dreaming somebody, please ...

OK, I've recovered now ... man, the character models (hair, expressions, faces)
the fluidity and amount of action on-screen, the effects ... dang, I loved the
scene where snake's standing in the cemetery, rendered real-time !!! WOW !!!
The battle at the end was equally impressive !!! Hope you can pull these moves
off !!!

Man !!! Last MGS I played was on the PSX (the original) ... MGS you've come
a long way baby !!! Can't wait to rekindle that magic that once was !!! Have to
excuse me ... don't know how long it'll take for me to recover from my state of
SHOCK !!!

DrunkenThumbMaster :

If you feel the GameSpot screenshots don't do the game justice ... complain
to them, not to me. I've always found GameSpot to be a reliable source of info.

[silversparrow]

Until they change the controls (which are the worst in any 3rd person action game next to RE) and camera I have only slight interest.

I'm sure it will have the same camera system as MGS3:S, which a lot of people felt mitigated the control problems of the series.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

I'm sure it will have the same camera system as MGS3:S, which a lot of people felt mitigated the control problems of the series.


They said that about RE4 and it still controlled like a brick! Besides the control issues I have with the game aren't really related to the camera. Specifically the weapon selection and the way you shoot and target.

I didn't bother with Subsistence but is the camera full controllable ala Splinter Cell.

[Cuddly Knife]

VGV, you're missing out on Snake Eater, which is one of the best games of this generation. Definitely tops in story. And some of the best graphics on the PS2. The re-release of Snake Eater is even better with the new camera control. Great games, great games.

Sadly, you won't be able to pull off those moves, since they're pretty much limited to the cut-scnes for every MGS game, unless they give us QTEs, which is what I've been saying they should've done since the begining. Doesn't matter to me if they gave me the same gameplay, since I play MGS for the story, and now, even moreso.

[VGV]

VGV, you're missing out on Snake Eater, which is one of the best games of this generation. Definitely tops in story. And some of the best graphics on the PS2. The re-release of Snake Eater is even better with the new camera control. Great games, great games.

Sadly, you won't be able to pull off those moves, since they're pretty much limited to the cut-scnes for every MGS game, unless they give us QTEs, which is what I've been saying they should've done since the begining. Doesn't matter to me if they gave me the same gameplay, since I play MGS for the story, and now, even moreso.

Thanks for the tip CK ! Knowing you're a skilled, hardcore gamer it must truly be a great
game. Added this one to my GTG List (GamesToGet) as of now !

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I didn't bother with Subsistence but is the camera full controllable ala Splinter Cell.

It's fully controllable (except for 1% of the game near the end), and really makes the game fun. I have to say I like MGS3:S more than the Splinter Cell games, though I wouldn't give Subsistence any awards since it's a much improved version of a game that was just released 2 years ago.

The controls feel slightly cumbersome, mainly because of having to pause and go into the map/camo/food inventories each and every time. The D-pad should have been used for quick access to these menus instead of being used for slower walking. Hopefully that will be ironed out for MGS4.

The original MGS3 is unplayable compared to Subsistence, IMO.

[Jupiter_x]

It's fully controllable (except for 1% of the game near the end), and really makes the game fun. I have to say I like MGS3:S more than the Splinter Cell games, though I wouldn't give Subsistence any awards since it's a much improved version of a game that was just released 2 years ago.

The controls feel slightly cumbersome, mainly because of having to pause and go into the map/camo/food inventories each and every time. The D-pad should have been used for quick access to these menus instead of being used for slower walking. Hopefully that will be ironed out for MGS4.

The original MGS3 is unplayable compared to Subsistence, IMO.

Yes, a little overbearing I agree.

The other thing that annoys the sh*t outta me is...while your crounching and wish to move you either need to hit the button to stand and run...or....you will lunge into the prone postion and squirm away. Why could they not have implemented a "Crouched Run" Like 'ol Sam Fisher?

Nothing is worse than being sighted while crouched behind a wall and instantly moving to run and hide, only to find that Snake needs to take the time to lunge to the ground and squirm away at a snails pace from an onslaught of enemies....oh but if you wish to stand??...gotta hit that stand button twice or you will keep crouching and squirming, rinse and repeat......grrrrrrr!

Oh yeah, and isn't Metal Gear a "Sneaking Game"??? Well why is it while Sneaking up behind an enemy, 9 times out of 10 no matter how carefully you execute your stealth moves, the guard will hear you turn around to see you and be alerted.
Most times Snake can dispatch the guard without the others being alerted but not always!

Snake really needs to take some pointer from Sam!

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

It's fully controllable (except for 1% of the game near the end), and really makes the game fun. I have to say I like MGS3:S more than the Splinter Cell games, though I wouldn't give Subsistence any awards since it's a much improved version of a game that was just released 2 years ago.

The controls feel slightly cumbersome, mainly because of having to pause and go into the map/camo/food inventories each and every time. The D-pad should have been used for quick access to these menus instead of being used for slower walking. Hopefully that will be ironed out for MGS4.

The original MGS3 is unplayable compared to Subsistence, IMO.

I haven't tried Subsistence and to be honest I doubt If I would go back to it now. Bu if they improve on the control system in MGS4 I'll be a lot more enthustiastic.