Sony about there fans "They'll buy ps3 without games"

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Sony is incredible. First they have no major game for launch neither did the 360 I guess but the 360 had the advantage of being the only Next Gen console on the market not So with the PS3. Heavenly Sword won't make launch and neither will Motorstorm. Will there network platform make it? Haven't heard much about it since they first announced it. But I doubt it.

Look at the arrogance of this company and how little they think of there customers. They claim to be going after the casual market at launch as well as the hardcore market. So they are going to have games like Singstar available at launch. Uhm $500 to $600 for a videogame system to casuals? I don't think that's going to fly. It sounds like they know they won't have many games so they are going to put out a bunch of cheap to develope low tech crap and claim they are going for casuals.

And finally to actally say there customers will buy the console with out games is well I guess it's Sony. I wasn't sure but right now I think MS is going to beat them in North America and Europe.

http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=140302

[Mochan]

Hello! Who buys a console without games to play on it? (uh... then again that did happen with the PS2...)

Well that's why I'm waiting a year or two before getting one!

[Glockstar]

An excerpt from that article you linked to:

"Without being too arrogant about it, I don't think we worry too much about building up the hype in the first six months, but where the rubber hits the road is going to be when all those hardcore gamers have bought PS3", said [Sony Computer Entertainment Europe CEO David] Reeves. "They have also bought Xbox 360 and they have probably bought Nintendo Wii as well."

However, Reeves maintained that shifting PS3s in the early days won't be a problem, such is the strength of the PlayStation brand: "We have built up a certain brand equity over time since the launch of PlayStation in 1995 and PS2 in 2000 that the first five million are going to buy it, whatever it is, even it didn't have games."

Wow, that seems like that's taking fans for granted. But then again, fanboys are different - and they'll take it up the you-know-what.

Still, while I once thought that Sony would win the next-gen war no problem, I'm really don't think so sure anymore. I just think that $600-$500 is asking a lot of people. Yeah, the Playstation has it's fanboys, but the vast majority of PS1 and PS2 buyers are not fanboys - or even fans - they are as incredibly casual as you can get. But for $100-$200 I'll bet you that they educate themselves next time they go to buy a videogame console.

As for what the fanboys will have to put up with for the PS3 launch:

Bloomberg: PS3 launch won't show potential
Lack of details on machine's final specs leaves developers dry, wary; Sony CEO says as many as 15 titles at launch.
By Tim Surette, GameSpot Posted May 17, 2006 12:37 pm PT

Sony has no doubt examined Microsoft's next-gen console gaming debut under a microscope, hoping to glean lessons it could apply to the PlayStation 3 launch later this year. But even with the cautionary tale of the Xbox 360 well documented, Sony will likely still have obstacles to face, says Bloomberg.

The biggest problem Sony faces, according to the news service, is the delay in delivering the final specs of its machine to developers. Without final development kits or information on the machine, games pegged for the PS3 launch won't be able to take full advantage of the system's capabilities.

"A lot of developers have not gotten the [PS3 development] kits," Sega of America president Simon Jeffery told Bloomberg. "There certainly will not be a lot of titles available [at launch]."

The fact that games don't really grow into the potential of the consoles they're made for until well into the system's life cycle is nothing new for Sony--but the timing is. With Microsoft reversing the roles of first-to-market, Sony will be hard pressed to show what its system can do immediately, especially given Microsoft's full year head start and the fact that the top-line PS3 is one and a half times the price of the high-end Xbox 360.

Sony Computer Entertainment CEO Kaz Hirai said that as many as 15 PS3 titles could be available for launch, slightly less than the 18 that the Xbox 360 launched with.

One reason for the shorter list could be apprehension, says Bloomberg. "It was too risky to do it," said THQ CEO Brian Farrell, explaining why his company's big-license game The Sopranos, due later this year, isn't in the works for the PS3. "It made no sense." The game will be released on the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 2.

It will take both sense and cents to make games for the platform, says Janco Partners analyst Mike Hickey. "Developing for Sony's platform is incrementally more complex than what you're looking at for Microsoft or Nintendo," he said. The costs of making games for the PS3, which could reach the $25 million mark, could alienate cash-conscious third-party publishers.

Other developers are taking a "work with what you've got" approach. Ubisoft's CEO Yves Guillemot doesn't see much of a difference from the situation with the Xbox 360. "We won't be able to take advantage of all the components of the machine, but it was the same last year," he told Bloomberg.

Even with development well under way, the machine's complexities could result in the launch titles showing off only a portion of what the machine can do. According to Bloomberg, Activision's CEO Bobby Kotick believes that the first generation of PS3 games will use only about one-fifth of the Cell processor's potential.

As for Sony's take? Hirai simply says, "I don't think there will be too much of an issue."

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6151415.html

Now I gotta comment on that 'as many as 15 titles available at launch' issue. This time last year, MS was hopeful for around 25 titles. They ended up with 18. Now Sony's hopeful for (just) 15?(!) Do the math! And remember, this is Sony we're talking about: they, of all companies, are not going to err on the side of caution or give you the safe guess when it comes to hype.

[theWacoKid]

Games?! We don't need no stinking games! Just gets better and better. $600. Dual skus including sony's own tard pack. Maybe 15 games at launch and the only games I had any interest in won't be out till 2007. No shock in the dual shock controller, all because sony is so arrogant and stupid that they refuse to settle their lawsuit with immersion. MS settled with immersion ages ago.

Man, is this an easy system to pass on this year. The Wii will definitely get more consideration from me in the next year than the ps3 will. And if sony can't win over an early adopter like me who bought a ps, ps2 and psp at launch, how are they going to win over the masses. Answer. They won't.

If MS cuts prices on the 360 down to $200/$300 by year's end and the Wii clocks in at $200, sony is in big effin trouble. I'm a developer, the 360 already has an install base that's made hits of games like COD2, GRAW, and Oblivion, they're priced way under the ps3, its way easier to develop for and the systems are basically par in power and sony thinks I need to make games for their system simply because they're effin sony. On top of that I have to compete not only with other game developers but with high-def movies. Yeah, some big incentive to develop for these guys.

Sony will still own japan, but NA and Europe are in serious jeapordy unless sony execs extract their respective heads from their collective asses and realize that we as gamers don't need the fricking ps3, that they are perfectly acceptable alternatives out there for gaming including sony's own ps2 which will probably kill off ps3 sales better than the competition.

[Gadfly2317]

How strong is "the Sony brand" anyway to gamers? I mean, I see what Sony is saying, and how other people have pointed out that people use the name "playstation" interchangeably with the word "videogame". . . just the same as how casuals used to say "let's play Nintendo" when they meant "let's play videogames."

But that's the thing. Nintendo used to be in the same position Sony is now. Sony is not undefeatable just because of the strength of its brand. I don't think it's uncommon to view Playstation as ubiquitious, generic. And if it's $600 with a crappy launch line-up--that's gonna have to hurt.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Well, I just don't understand why ANY of this is a surprise. I have been saying this for a long time. Just a few short months ago after Sony missed their Spring launch, all the Sony fanboys on this site was saying how it was such a great move, how the developers would have final kits with much more time than 360 developers did, how there would be more games at launch than 360 had, and how the PS3 launch games were gonna compete with 2nd generation 360 games. Furthermore the Sony fanboys were KILLING me telling me how Sony by pushing back their release wouldn't have the shortages or face any of the problems MS had. Of course I was on the otherside of the fence, all the handwriting was on the wall if anyone had bothered to read in-between the lines of comments from the industry. EA the biggest developer out there said "if Sony is ready for Spring, nobody is telling us!" Come on people you don't leave the biggest developer in the world in the dark. The Sony fanboys kept telling me Sony is just keeping things under wraps. Then I tried to tell you guys how long and how hard MS worked behind the scenes years before LIVE was ready, which wasn't until a year after XBOX launched, so Sony earlier this year is handing out questionnaires! I tried to say, they won't be ready! What did the fanboys say, I was hatin' on Sony! One game company said they were doing their own online component and was completely in the dark that Sony was developing a network, this was earlier this year guys!

And I don't even wanna talk about the price! That should be the biggest non-surprise. All the way back when MS announced their prices, I said PS3 would be much more expensive. I also said, while the Sony fanboys were roasting 360's prices, that they should wait until Sony announces its prices before they roast MS. Of course, the Sony milkdrinkers were having none of that. And now they wanna act surprised. Ken Kutagari himself said the system would be expensive and that people would sacrifice and save up to buy it, because it was so radical! The Sony fanboys here, somehow denied all of that, and took it to mean that Ken was trying to throw a curveball and would actually launch the system at $300 - $400. It was like guys here were reading and seeing all of this, but just believing what they wanted to believe.

We've already seen Slade eat his humble pie, but where is TheLastWord! This guy was talking MAJOR crap. And just as recently as weeks before E-3 I tried to explain that there was NO WAY Sony would have better games than 360 for a year. Now, i'm no savant or pre-cog, its all out there in the media. How can a system have better games the first year when A) the company admits all of its better games won't be released until XMAS 2007. Polyphony said they were pushing to get GT5 in time for XMAS 2007, if not 1st qtr 2008. Hideo said MetalGear4 was for XMAS '07. Killzone2 last year at E-3 was stated as not being a launch title. And these were the ONLY hot games aside from Motorstorm and the one game that got renamed, now we find out those won't make launch. B) the rest of the games for the first year are multiplatforms like Splinter Cell, Rainbow6, or PC games like UT and finally C) the 360 was announcing more and more exclusives. First we found out Oblivion was NOT going to PS3 I remember when all the Sony guys speculated it was coming. Then we had the Gears of War vs. UT debate in which Sony guys went nuts for a PC sequel mindless fragfest, saying it would be better than a new IP, exclusive thoughtful Sci-Fi shooter. Then we found out Too Human, Mass Effect, Chrome Hounds, and others were all only on 360. Now, guys I have yet to mention ONE traditional XBOX franchise such as PGR3 or Ninja Gaiden or Halo3, so without all of the OLD XBOX franchises 360 was kicking the azz of PS3 which was only relying on sequels. So it was REAL obvious to see that PS3 was going to struggle not just at launch, but the entire first year of its existence.

I hate to be a "I told u so" kinda guy, but damn just go dig up those comments. You guys were really taking the wood to my azz and now every single thing I said came true and then some. I mean the truth actually turned out worse than what I was predicting because I was thinking Motorstorm would make launch, I was predicting GTA franchise would remain exclusive for a period on PS3, I was predicting that there would NOT be two SKUs and I was never even thinking after all the hype about blu-ray and HDD movies that Sony would cripple its core system. Imagine if I had of said those things back then, just a few weeks ago, I swear some of you guys would have hunted me down and pulled my toe-nails out.


Now, given all of that. I have some new predictions. Sony is going to be just fine superficially, when it comes down to a look at their financials it will be a bloody mess. But when it comes to the numbers we look at, sales and game ratings etc, I think Sony will only take small hits. First Sony has more rabid fans than we think. A lot of people, casual people, only know Sony Playstation and don't pay attention to game sites and E-3, they won't even know their console is crippled if they buy the core system, and it'll be years before they care cause they probably don't have HD sets or even how to properly hook them up, they could think they are playing in HD and not be and not even know the difference. Sony also are great marketers they even have me excited about some of these games, but as I said in another thread, I have seen very little actual game footage. For example I am excited about MetalGear, but i haven't seen game footage, of course Sony is saying it was in-game technology and you want to believe because who wouldn't want to play games like that. But if it turns out to be untrue, guys like myself will yell and scream, but the average PS fan will be in heaven because the game will still be loads better than what they had on the PS2. And that is the real advantage Sony has, for a lot of these casual fans, all they know is PS2, so that when they get PS3, it is gonna look and play great compared to PS2 and their fans are gonna be amazed. They will be amazed with whatever Sony comes up with in terms of an online network, because we know the deal about LIVE, but 90% of Sony PS2 fans do NOT! In effect, PS3 is gonna rock because from a sensory standpoint it is gonna be light years better than PS2! It doesn't matter that 360 may be better or just as good. The PS brand name is kinda like the IPOD or I should say the IPOD is kinda like PS. It doesn't matter that there are cheaper MP3 players that do more things and hold more songs and even look better than the IPOD, all consumers know is IPOD and IPODs main competitor is the next version of itself.

Underneath the skin this is gonna cost Sony a lot of red ink. Even with the stupid fans still blindly buying the system it is too expensive for them to buy a lot of software, there will be some fans lost to 360 and Revy, and if blu-ray movies take off, PS3 game and movies will cannibalize each other like PSP movies and games did, with movies eventually losing to games on the PSP. Sony will NOT make up the discount they are subsidizing on the price of each console, blu-ray will take of slowly and could lose and if that happens or if it is a protracted fight with HD-DVD say for 3-5 years, it will definitely hurt Sony badly. So in the end, it will really be a role reversal from last gen. We will be laughing at Sony's financials, and Sony fanboys will say financials don't matter. I look forward to PS3 in 2007 at XMAS, they will have to reduce the price of the 60GB system and I think those games like MetalGear4 and Killzone2 will be as good as promised and could blow away 360 games. I think the only unknown quantity for me is HOW good is the 360, how much more juice does it have and how long can it hang with the PS3? Its still a combination of technology and developer talent and as i said before it seems like most of the developer talent is on the 360's side so that could enable 360 to maybe be superior until 2008 who knows?

[slade]

Much Adieu about nothing. Sony's strategy has always been to sell this to tech enthusiasts and their hardcore fans. Besides, all you guys like to say that PS2 didn't have any good games until a year after launch and that PS2 sold as a DVD player for the first year. How is what he says any different then what you were already saying about PS fans since the beginning of the current gen?

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

PS2 was able to sit a year w/o any good games simply because the competition at the time was weak as hell (DC sucked). This time, I don't think Sony can afford to do the same with the PS3. It will be interesting to see how things go this gen.

-

After reading an article at IGN, the $499 PS3 system is no longer an option. I finally got the full details about what's in and what's out of the cheaper model, and even if I don't use it as a movie player, it doesn't have the same value as the $599. Also, Lost Planet is officially on my '07 game list. I hope Capcom doesn't do anything to make me kick it off that list.

[slade]

Will that matter to hardcore consumers? Generally speaking, the promise of games is often more of an incentive then the actual games on the console. Part of the reason why I"m considering a 360 purchase is because of Lost Planet and the game is still six months away.

After reading an article at IGN, the $499 PS3 system is no longer an option. I finally got the full details about what's in and what's out of the cheaper model, and even if I don't use it as a movie player, it doesn't have the same value as the $599.

Obviously it wouldn't have the same value but in terms of playing videogames, it is a far better package then the 360 core. And that's all I've ever wanted from the PS3.

[joquito]

Whether or not you want to use the 20gig PS3 for movies, YOU ARE actually paying for the capabilities and hardware, you just can't use them. Adding the fact that its $100 more than the 360 premium system, I have a hard time using the term value to describe the 20gig PS3.

[slade]

I assume you're referring to the ICT flag which won't be used in movies until 2012 at the latest. Furthermore, I've read that Universal won't be using that technology in their movies at all. Hollywood is still divided over this issue and is debating it. However, none of that should matter if all you want to do is play videogames and in those terms, Blu Ray could prove useful. Several developers have already stated Blu Ray as being one of Sony's advantages in the upcoming gen and for games at least, there won't be any restrictions on the resolution.

Face it, the 20 gig pack is far more of a value then anybody gave it credit for and that includes me. I thought this was Sony's version of the retard pack but in the end, minus HDMI, you can upgrade it to match the 60 GB version. That'll allow you to spread the cost of the console out over its lifespan and it isn't as limited as the 360 core, which robs you from key gameplay features. Want to go online? Can't do it without the HDD. Want faster loading games? Can't do it without the HDD.

You need to stop thinking of the 20 gig pack as a Blu Ray movie player and more in terms of Sony's concession to their gaming fanbase.

[joquito]

I assume you're referring to the ICT flag which won't be used in movies until 2012 at the latest. Furthermore, I've read that Universal won't be using that technology in their movies at all. Hollywood is still divided over this issue and is debating it. However, none of that should matter if all you want to do is play videogames and in those terms, Blu Ray could prove useful. Several developers have already stated Blu Ray as being one of Sony's advantages in the upcoming gen and for games at least, there won't be any restrictions on the resolution.

Face it, the 20 gig pack is far more of a value then anybody gave it credit for and that includes me. I thought this was Sony's version of the retard pack but in the end, minus HDMI, you can upgrade it to match the 60 GB version. That'll allow you to spread the cost of the console out over its lifespan and it isn't as limited as the 360 core, which robs you from key gameplay features. Want to go online? Can't do it without the HDD. Want faster loading games? Can't do it without the HDD.

You need to stop thinking of the 20 gig pack as a Blu Ray movie player and more in terms of Sony's concession to their gaming fanbase.

So how many studios said they would refrain from using the ICT flag until 2012? How many studios even gave a time frame as to when they would start? The usefulness of the Blu-ray disc to gaming has not come to fruitiion or even potential as of E3 2006, the year of the PS3s launch. I'm not arguing how awesome you think the PS3 is just that it is not a value ladden product. ( Unless you buy it a launch and sell it on Ebay). Arguing about the level of value one gets from a $500 gaming console is pretty one-sided.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Much Adieu about nothing. Sony's strategy has always been to sell this to tech enthusiasts and their hardcore fans. Besides, all you guys like to say that PS2 didn't have any good games until a year after launch and that PS2 sold as a DVD player for the first year. How is what he says any different then what you were already saying about PS fans since the beginning of the current gen?

Well we see how selling to the tech enthuiasit work for MS. Anyway in the link I gave Sony said they are going to go after the casuals at launch as well. That's why they are going to have Singstar ready at launch :thumbsup:

[theWacoKid]

I assume you're referring to the ICT flag which won't be used in movies until 2012 at the latest. Furthermore, I've read that Universal won't be using that technology in their movies at all. Hollywood is still divided over this issue and is debating it.

Where's the link about ICT flagging not being implemented till 2012? This is nothing more than an unsubstantiated rumor from a german site claiming that there's some unofficial agreement among hollywood studios and consumer electronics firms. How likely is it that these companies would have a "gentleman's agreement on ICT flaging"? Basically there is no agreement. If its not in writing, then its virtually meaningless. Who here trusts anything coming out of hollywood, the inventors of creative accounting and "nyet" profits and divx.

ICT was created for a purpose and it will be implemented at some point or other.

[slade]

So how many studios said they would refrain from using the ICT flag until 2012? How many studios even gave a time frame as to when they would start? .

Actually, Sony's said that they have no plans to implement ICT flagging and this has spurred most of the other studios into holding off on it as well. As far as I know, only Warner Bros. is still saying that they will implement the feature over the next year. All this said, the reason for the other studios holding off on ICT is because they want a quicker adoption of these next gen formats and we can all agree that the adoption rate is not going to just rocket to the top. If it takes a while, then ICT is going to take a while to work too.

The usefulness of the Blu-ray disc to gaming has not come to fruitiion or even potential as of E3 2006, the year of the PS3s launch.

I'd have been surprised if it happened this quickly seeing as how the usefulness of both the 360 and PS3 CPU's and GPU's won't be exploited until a few years into the console's lifespan. That's how it has always been within the Videogame industry. Just because the potential isn't exploited at launch does not mean that it will never be exploited. You're jumping the gun here.

I'm not arguing how awesome you think the PS3 is just that it is not a value ladden product. ( Unless you buy it a launch and sell it on Ebay). Arguing about the level of value one gets from a $500 gaming console is pretty one-sided.

So, it's not a value laden product to you. Doesn't mean you can post false information freely about the 20 gig version.

Well we see how selling to the tech enthuiasit work for MS. Anyway in the link I gave Sony said they are going to go after the casuals at launch as well. That's why they are going to have Singstar ready at launch :thumbsup:

I doubt any casuals will pick up a PS3 at launch despite what games Sony has. Even if GTA4 was exclusive and a launch title, I doubt the average person would pay for the console at its current price.

snip!!!!!!

Refer back to first paragraph. As long as things are as muddled as they are, whose to say that ICT will ever be implemented.

[theWacoKid]

Ack, ack, ack. Sony fanboy in full damage control. Man, do you run out the door with your frickin tail between your legs when you get called on your so called facts.

And if things are muddled, why buy the tard pack, unless, of course, in your case, you qualify as a tard.

[slade]

Ack, ack, ack. Sony fanboy in full damage control. Man, do you run out the door with your frickin tail between your legs when you get called on your so called facts.

And if things are muddled, why buy the tard pack, unless, of course, in your case, you qualify as a tard.

What's so tard about it? You're the guys going on and on about not being convinced by Blu Ray and yet you want a Blu Ray player. If you want one with all the perks, pay six hundred dollars, however, if you can live with the fact that it may be obsolete by the time PS4 and Xbox 720 are out, then the 20 gig one will do just fine.

Finally, if you want just a videogame console, then the 20 gig one will be just fine. None of you have actually even tried arguing this simple fact.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

What's so tard about it? You're the guys going on and on about not being convinced by Blu Ray and yet you want a Blu Ray player. If you want one with all the perks, pay six hundred dollars, however, if you can live with the fact that it may be obsolete by the time PS4 and Xbox 720 are out, then the 20 gig one will do just fine.

Finally, if you want just a videogame console, then the 20 gig one will be just fine. None of you have actually even tried arguing this simple fact.

U might have a leg to stand on if the 20GB version was the exact same cost as the 360, then Sony could say, hey it has a HDD just the 360, we are charging $400. You might also have a point if the 60GB version was $700, then u could an extra $200 for 40GB, WI-FI, and HDCP 1080P movies is really not worth it for me. But the fact is we are only talking about $100 measily dollars. 40GB, WI-FI, and HD Movie playback for $100 extra is a NO BRAINER. Those are features that will provide utility for the life of the console!

[slade]

I think I posted that the 20 gig version is only supposed to be fifty Canadian dollars more then the 360 Premium pack. Personally, I'd pay that much more for franchises exclusive to Sony's console.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

I think I posted that the 20 gig version is only supposed to be fifty Canadian dollars more then the 360 Premium pack. Personally, I'd pay that much more for franchises exclusive to Sony's console.


Did you read about a rumor that Capcom was bringing DMC 3 to the 360

this video is too funy check it out. WE LOVE KEN!!! RIDGE RACER!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH2w2l1JTs4&search=sony%20e3%20conference

[slade]

Yeah, but it wasn't true. They got the release date for the PS2 version mixed up. If DMC4 actually makes it to the 360 then it would put a damper on my PS3 purchase for a long while. As it is, PS3 is the only console I've got if I want both Resident Evil 5 and Devil May Cry 4. Although, I do plan on owning it eventually for Lost Planet and future Capcom games.

Seen the video too.

'It's Ridge Racer.... RIIIIIIIIDGE RACER!!!!!!!!!!!!'

LOL, that was probably worse then the Genji 2 clip everybody likes to jump on.

[slade]

About the HDCP/ICT issue:

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=17211