Squenix pimpslap to Western RPG makers aka March NPD.

[slade]

From GAF:

Xbox 360 = 192,000
PS2 = 273,000
Xbox = 83,000
GCN = 63,000

Overall software sales are down 8% over March 2005. Hardware sales are down 38%.

Some Xbox 360 Stats:

· Tie Ratio is now up to 4.53
· For the month combined 360/Xbox software sales are up 33% over 2005
· COD2 is up to almost 800K units, and has a 66% hardware tie ratio (!!!)
· Take 2’s sales are up 90% yoy on the strength of Oblivion, even compared to last year when GTA: SA sales were still strong. The stock is going to jump tomorrow: analysts were forecasting only 33% growth.

March Top 25 Software Sales

US Top 25 Videogame Titles
Rank Title Publisher

Rank Title Publisher
1 PS2 KINGDOM HEARTS II Square Enix
2 360 T. CLANCYS GHOST RECON: ADVANCED WARFIGHTER Ubi Soft
3 360 ELDER SCROLLS IV: OBLIVION Take 2 Interactive
4 PS2 BLACK Electronic Arts
5 360 ELDER SCROLLS IV:OBLIVION CE Take 2 Interactive
6 360 FIGHT NIGHT ROUND 3 Electronic Arts
7 PS2 MLB '06: THE SHOW Sony
8 PS2 FIGHT NIGHT ROUND 3 Electronic Arts
9 XBX BLACK Electronic Arts
10 PS2 THE GODFATHER: THE GAME Electronic Arts
11 GCN SONIC RIDERS Sega
12 PS2 GUITAR HERO BUNDLE Red Octane
13 360 BURNOUT REVENGE Electronic Arts
14 NDS METROID PRIME: HUNTERS Nintendo
15 NDS SUPER PRINCESS PEACH Nintendo
16 360 THE OUTFIT THQ
17 360 CALL OF DUTY 2 Activision
18 XBX THE GODFATHER: THE GAME Electronic Arts
19 XBX FIGHT NIGHT ROUND 3 Electronic Arts
20 360 BLAZING ANGELS: SQUADRONS OF WWII Ubi Soft
21 PS2 24: THE GAME Take 2 Interactive
22 PS2 GOD OF WAR Sony
23 360 COLLEGE HOOPS 2K6 Take 2 Interactive
24 PS2 ONIMUSHA: DAWN OF DREAMS Capcom
25 PSP MLB '06: THE SHOW Sony

Source: The NPD Group/NPD Funworld, POS
Note: Ranked in terms of $$$ sales.

The above was ranked in amount of money made. The following is ranked in number of units sold:

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6147802.html
ALL CONSOLES
Rank Title Platform Publisher
1 Kingdom Hearts II PS2 Square Enix
2 Tom Clancy's Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter Xbox3 60 Ubisoft
3 Black PS2 Electronic Arts
4 Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Xbox 360 2K Games
5 MLB '06: The Show PS2 SCEA
6 Fight Night Round 3 PS2 Electronic Arts
7 Black Xbox Electronic Arts
8 The Godfather PS2 Electronic Arts
9 Fight Night Round 3 Xbox 360 Electronic Arts
10 God of War PS2 SCEA
11 Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Xbox 360 2K Games
12 Metroid Prime: Hunters DS Nintendo
13 Sonic Riders GC Sega
14 Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas PS2 Rockstar Games
15 Super Princess Peach DS Nintendo
16 The Godfather Xbox Electronic Arts
17 Metal Gear Solid 3: Subsistence PS2 Konami
18 Fight Night Round 3 Xbox Electronic Arts
19 Gran Turismo 4 PS2 SCEA
20 24: The Game PS2 2K Games

KH2's performance is phenominal considering that it was released at the end of the month versus both Oblivion and GRAW. With only three days on the market, it managed to offset the sixty dollar advantage that 360 games enjoy.

[Mochan]

I don't think anyone was expecting otherwise!

Looks like you were right though; if there was a killer app, it would have been GRAW and not Oblivion.

BTW, what's a Tie Ratio? Number of games sold per console sold?

[slade]

BTW, what's a Tie Ratio? Number of games sold per console sold?

Yep, that's tie ratio. Essentially, how many games one single owner of a 360 is likely to own. In System Wars terms, it determines just how hardcore the userbase for the system is.

Anyway, Oblivion did a lot better then I expected but with so many factors working against the 360 right now, I'm not sure whether that makes me right or wrong about our prior argument. It sold around 357,000, btw.

[theWacoKid]

Why don't we compare the number of ps2s out there to the number of 360s and compare the attach ratios of both games to their respective consoles. Oblivion on that basis handed KH2 its hat and kicked its sorry ass out the door.

[slade]

Why don't we compare the number of ps2s out there to the number of 360s and compare the attach ratios of both games to their respective consoles. Oblivion on that basis handed KH2 its hat and kicked its sorry ass out the door.

Ya' see what I meant about tie ratio, Mochan?

Yes, rejoice in the fact that nerds all over the world own the 360. Thankfully, their population doesn't seem too high. April should be a fun month. Apparently, the 360 shortage is over and MS is aiming to ship one million a month from now on. Maybe they can at least sell 3 million in N. America before PS3 comes out.

[trebor]

Can somebody please explain the draw of the Kingdom Hearts franchise? To me it looks as if Squenix took the worst parts of JRPGs, combined it with Disney characters, covered the thing in sugar, and vomited pastel colors all over it.

It just looks... so... damn... lame.

[Glockstar]

Can somebody please explain the draw of the Kingdom Hearts franchise? To me it looks as if Squenix took the worst parts of JRPGs, combined it with Disney characters, covered the thing in sugar, and vomited pastel colors all over it.

It just looks... so... damn... lame.

It is lame. (Like Wind Waker.)

It cracks me up, that it was the number one selling game in March - but no one here bought it. (I don't think.)

The draw is the Disney. (That should be obvious.) But it's just a gimmick. I thought the original game was cool at first. (Hey, I love Disney too.) But the longer I played it, the less fun it got. (All I really wanted to do was play the NBC level - but I couldn't make it that far.)

It could be written that the Disney parts do have a good bit of that Disney feel. Which in my book, is a positive. But it's clearly a Square game - that's the over-riding feeling.

Anyhow, I have zero interest in KH2.

-

Why don't we compare the number of ps2s out there to the number of 360s and compare the attach ratios of both games to their respective consoles. Oblivion on that basis handed KH2 its hat and kicked its sorry ass out the door.

What, compare 50+million to 850-thousand? Why? What would that show? Oh, you just said it. Hee hee.

-

P2 = 273,000
360 = 192,000
XB = 83,000
GC = 63,000

273,000 PS2's?!

Alright, every month we ask ourselves: wtf is wrong with people?! But I think it's about time we asked the question seriously. How can this be? (These numbers... they can't be right. Can they? It just doesn't make any sense. What, are there little plutonium reactors inside the things that I don't know about - and people are just buying them to crack them open for the prize inside - or some sh!t? I don't get it...)

[Gadfly2317]

All I really wanted to do was play the NBC level - but I couldn't make it that far.


Me too!

Such potential turned into boredom. If only there'd been a Jack n Sally "Hot Coffee" mod.

[Mochan]

I honestly hated Kingdom Hearts 1. I *thought* it was a cool concept at first, but when I actually got to playing it, the actual gameplay was lame.

It's not typical JRPG core gameplay though, more like Zelda gameplay. But yeah it's a bad game. I didn't even bother picking up a pirated version of it (it came out before the US version hit the shelves) even though it only cost $1.50 and I could have strutted around here acting all cool because I got the game before everyone else. I despise the franchise.



The draw is the Disney. (That should be obvious.) But it's just a gimmick. I thought the original game was cool at first. (Hey, I love Disney too.) But the longer I played it, the less fun it got. (All I really wanted to do was play the NBC level - but I couldn't make it that far.)


That's exactly how I felt, as well.



Alright, every month we ask ourselves: wtf is wrong with people?! But I think it's about time we asked the question seriously. How can this be? (These numbers... they can't be right. Can they? It just doesn't make any sense. What, are there little plutonium reactors inside the things that I don't know about - and people are just buying them to crack them open for the prize inside - or some sh!t? I don't get it...)

LOL, PS2's overall game library just owns Xbox... and XBox 360 for that matter. That's all there is to it.

[slade]

Handheld numbers:

NDS 184K
PSP 186K
GBA 201K

Some other data:

YTD
GBA - 563K
PSP - 535K
DS - 492K

LTD
DS - 4.31 million
PSP - 4.17 million
DS Lead - ~139K

All numbers from GAF.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Why don't we compare the number of ps2s out there to the number of 360s and compare the attach ratios of both games to their respective consoles. Oblivion on that basis handed KH2 its hat and kicked its sorry ass out the door.

Thanks for shutting him up before he got outta hand.

Well it looks like Sony was wrong! The next generation has started! Damn the 360 is selling much more software than I expected with so few units installed! For those who thought there was no market for next gen games you have been proven wrong. 360 has come in and took over the top 5 from the mighty mighty PS2. What this says is consumers are more than eager to buy software, just nextgen software, what this says is that despite 60,70,80, million installed nothing is motivating PS2 consumers to buy software.

Also I kinda disagree with you Mochan. I think Oblivion is a system seller and i think GRAW is a system seller. The difference is that GRAW is just in a genre that is much more oriented to the console crowd. I have people asking me all the time on LIVE what is this Oblivion game and is it good. So as word of mouth continues to spread, Oblivion will stay hot.

Slade thinks the system will die once PS3 arrives. I expect the opposite. 360 will do much better next year than this year for a few reasons. First there won't be enough PS3's to go around, the games won't be better than 360 and with plenty of 360's around to fill the void MS will have a very good year after PS3 arrives. This is really the PS2 playbook being used against Sony.

If you also look at the fact that the combined sales of XBOX/360 outpaced PS2, and the 360 distribution was crippled, is a significant stat. People are just as willing to buy the XBOX brand as the Sony brand and the MS bias or Sony hype is starting to wear thin.

Don't get me wrong though, I think the PS3 will be a good console, much better than the PS2(though it probably won't sell as many as fast), but I don't think the PS3 is going to be so good that it can buck the trend and hit the ground running with software much better than the PC and 360. It is gonna suck wind a little bit for a little while. Also I think we won't see how strong either system is until we can compare the 3 versions of BIA3, Splinter Cell, and Rainbow 6 Vegas.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

<b>
LOL, PS2's overall game library just owns Xbox... and XBox 360 for that matter. That's all there is to it.</b>

That's your opinion, not a fact. In my opinion the 360 library owns the PS2 library already, okay well maybe i'm exaggerating but not by much, check it. There still aren't any great western rpg's on the PS2 after all these years. So if you are a western RPG fan and don't like Jrpgs, then Oblivion is better than the whole PS2 RPG line-up. Anyway, you can see where this is going, it can be argued all day which system has the better games. If you were stuck with on an island for a month though, and could only choose 1 game between Kingdom Hearts and Oblivion, I wonder how many people would really pick Disney?

[trebor]

Ok um, before you Xbots continue with your victory dancing, clear this up for me...

Rank Title Publisher
3 360 ELDER SCROLLS IV: OBLIVION Take 2 Interactive

5 360 ELDER SCROLLS IV:OBLIVION CE Take 2 Interactive


ALL CONSOLES
Rank Title Platform Publisher

4 Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Xbox 360 2K Games

11 Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion Xbox 360 2K Games

Notice that Oblivion is listed twice in each category, and I'm assuming that one is for the PC version and one is for the 360 version - despite both being labeled as "360".

So which version sold better?

[slade]

Notice that Oblivion is listed twice in each category, and I'm assuming that one is for the PC version and one is for the 360 version - despite both being labeled as "360".

Actually, one's the regular SKU and the other's the Limited Edition SKU. Both are 360. The PC chart is separate from the console one.

And you guys put too much stock into tie ratio's. Any console with such a small userbase always has huge tie ratio's. It's when the hardware numbers rise that the tie ratio begins to sink.

First there won't be enough PS3's to go around, the games won't be better than 360 and with plenty of 360's around to fill the void MS will have a very good year after PS3 arrives. This is really the PS2 playbook being used against Sony.

I don't know about you but when I go to buy a four hundred dollar piece of electronic equipment and it isn't available, I don't generally drop that money on the next thing I see. When there was a PS2 shortage, people didn't just abandon Sony to jump onboard the Sega bandwagon. It'll be the same this time.

[joquito]

Actually, one's the regular SKU and the other's the Limited Edition SKU. Both are 360. The PC chart is separate from the console one.

And you guys put too much stock into tie ratio's. Any console with such a small userbase always has huge tie ratio's. It's when the hardware numbers rise that the tie ratio begins to sink.



I don't know about you but when I go to buy a four hundred dollar piece of electronic equipment and it isn't available, I don't generally drop that money on the next thing I see. When there was a PS2 shortage, people didn't just abandon Sony to jump onboard the Sega bandwagon. It'll be the same this time.

If your mother was buying the console for you, SHE would. Things haven't changed and a large percentage of consoles will be purchased by parents who will buy based on the words of the saleman.

[slade]

If your mother was buying the console for you, SHE would. Things haven't changed and a large percentage of consoles will be purchased by parents who will buy based on the words of the saleman.

You'd be surprised by the number of parents who are willing to keep their toddlers satisfied. After all, it's these same parents that get the blame whenever somebody sells a console for 2000 dollars on Ebay. So, what is it? Are they going to capitulate to a salesman or are they going to go out there and spend spend spend?

Your argument is flawed on so many levels and it isn't any type of an absolute like you're pretending it is. My own argument is much the same but at least I've got history on my side. You've got nothing but some type of abnormal faith in Soccer moms.

Furthermore, with so many PS2 games still coming down the pipeline and into 2007, people may well just hang onto their current consoles until the one they want becomes available. This same strategy killed DC and it will do a number on the 360 as well.

[Zilla Man]

Well it looks like Sony was wrong!
Slade thinks the system will die once PS3 arrives. I expect the opposite. 360 will do much better next year than this year for a few reasons. First there won't be enough PS3's to go around, the games won't be better than 360 and with plenty of 360's around to fill the void MS will have a very good year after PS3 arrives.

Ueah, just like the Dreamcast did after the PS2 arrived, right?

Why don't you leave fortune telling to the astrologers and get back to us when MS sells their projected 10 million 360's by the end of the year. :lol:

We all know that between the PS2 heavyweights and the DS/PSP, MS will be lucky to do even 5 million by then.

Hey, Slade: I want you to save the data in this thread so that we can see how much of a "killer app/system mover" Elder Scrolls actually is when we see the 360 numbers next month.

[slade]

Don't really need to save anything. This thread will still be on the first page when next month rolls around.

BTW, you goin' to E3 this year? It should be huge.

[Mochan]

Notice that Oblivion is listed twice in each category, and I'm assuming that one is for the PC version and one is for the 360 version - despite both being labeled as "360".

So which version sold better?

No, both are Xbox versions, I assume 4 is the normal version while 11 is the Collector's Edition (CE) which has a gold septim and the pocket travel guide to the empire included.

As far as I can tell, the lists don't have the PC version listed anywhere.


Actually, one's the regular SKU and the other's the Limited Edition SKU. Both are 360. The PC chart is separate from the console one.

Ah yes there you go.


Hey, Slade: I want you to save the data in this thread so that we can see how much of a "killer app/system mover" Elder Scrolls actually is when we see the 360 numbers next month.

I am still going to stand by my prediction that TesIV will be the killer app over GRAW. It will be interesting to see how the sales pan out over time.

I also thought of something else: Slade do you have combined figures of the CE and non-CE sales for Oblivion?

[MoNkEy MaN X]

Ya' see what I meant about tie ratio, Mochan?

Yes, rejoice in the fact that nerds all over the world own the 360. Thankfully, their population doesn't seem too high. April should be a fun month. Apparently, the 360 shortage is over and MS is aiming to ship one million a month from now on. Maybe they can at least sell 3 million in N. America before PS3 comes out.

Wait a minute... 360 owners nerds? Wasn't the top selling PS2 game Kingdom Hearts 2? How are you gonna call 360 owners nerds when your top selling PS2 game is something like KH2? I may go as far as to say KH2 would put the PS2 boys into a Nerd/Pedifile category LOL!!!! Just poking fun...

[Zilla Man]

Don't really need to save anything. This thread will still be on the first page when next month rolls around.

BTW, you goin' to E3 this year? It should be huge.

Yeah, I am. I'm excited because it's the first E3 show where:

1) There are 5 major gaming platforms with new stuff.

2) Sony and Nintendo are both releasing a console opposite each other.

I'll be posting my annual Zilla Man E3 thread later this week so you guys can tell me any games you want me to check out. Last year I had a ton of left over catalogs, demos and stuff that I sent to Gadfly and Trebor. You being the primo VGR veteran, just let me know if there's anything you'd like me to get for you.

[trebor]

Yeah, I am. I'm excited because it's the first E3 show where:

1) There are 5 major gaming platforms with new stuff.

2) Sony and Nintendo are both releasing a console opposite each other.

I'll be posting my annual Zilla Man E3 thread later this week so you guys can tell me any games you want me to check out. Last year I had a ton of left over catalogs, demos and stuff that I sent to Gadfly and Trebor. You being the primo VGR veteran, just let me know if there's anything you'd like me to get for you.

Yeah, I thought Zilla was going to send me a Nintendo catalog, but he ended up sending me a HUGE package filled with E3 stuff. It was really cool to see the kind of $$$ these companies spend on one-time print promotional materials.

[slade]

I also thought of something else: Slade do you have combined figures of the CE and non-CE sales for Oblivion?

The only number I could find was Oblivion's at 357,000. Don't know if that includes both the Special Edition and the regular SKU. The PC version sold around 200,000.

I'll be posting my annual Zilla Man E3 thread later this week so you guys can tell me any games you want me to check out. Last year I had a ton of left over catalogs, demos and stuff that I sent to Gadfly and Trebor. You being the primo VGR veteran, just let me know if there's anything you'd like me to get for you.

Nah, that's all right. I do appreciate the thought though. I probably won't have any questions until I see what all the companies are showing anyway. Although you could ask whether Dead Rising and Lost Planet are coming to PS3.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

You'd be surprised by the number of parents who are willing to keep their toddlers satisfied. After all, it's these same parents that get the blame whenever somebody sells a console for 2000 dollars on Ebay. So, what is it? Are they going to capitulate to a salesman or are they going to go out there and spend spend spend?

Your argument is flawed on so many levels and it isn't any type of an absolute like you're pretending it is. My own argument is much the same but at least I've got history on my side. You've got nothing but some type of abnormal faith in Soccer moms.

Furthermore, with so many PS2 games still coming down the pipeline and into 2007, people may well just hang onto their current consoles until the one they want becomes available. This same strategy killed DC and it will do a number on the 360 as well.

Your argument is flawed even greater, your reliance on the PS2 succession of the Dreamcast is misplaced. You need to be looking at the PS2 response to XBOX. First DC was not a follow system, it was a new system. XBOX went through its newby trial process and survived, so 360 has market approval and recognition. Next for a good year or longer PS3 and 360 are going to have many of the same games which will likely be extremely close in terms of quality, in fact 360 could have the early edge. On top of that 2nd generation 360 exclusives will likely be better products than launch PS3 products, come on Slade this is all common sense. So when you have the PS3 with not enough to product to satisfy the market and you have a cheaper priced competitor that does the same thing, possibly better(at least in the first year), then those people on the fence probably won't hesistate to buy a 360, instead of wait 6 months or longer for a PS3. And we aren't even counting the fact that the PS3 could have launch problems at the very least distribution problems, if not technical issues. And $400, please keep dreaming! Try $500 for a bare bones system and try maybe $800 to $1500 for bundles, the bundles will be steeper than the 360 bundles.

Oh and thinking people are going to wait and keep playing PS2, okay yes of course some people will, but not admitting that a significant number of people will NOT wait is just foolish. You need to look again at your top 20 list, the nextgen has started, and the PS2 despite its huge installed base is already being outpaced by the 360. And you guys keep on saying PS2 has great games, but I thought guitar hero and katamari2, and S.O.C. and MetalGear7 or whatever was supposed to appease the masses and stop people from buy 360s. I still contend that Sony has a serious problem to deal with, with such a huge installed base they should be selling much more software. I'm starting to think this is an economic issue. I think the average XBOT is older and has more money and can buy more software. If this is the case, there must be some reason why the PS2(outside of XMAS) doesn't just dominate the top 20. If Sony doesn't solve this issue they are going to find it harder and harder to reach the volume necessary to break a profit with larger budget games that cost more on an already overpriced system. Me personally, I don't care I can afford the PS3 and 360 and their $60 games, but the average JOE?

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Ueah, just like the Dreamcast did after the PS2 arrived, right?




Uhm There was no EA on the DC hell 3rd party support on the DC was no where near what the 360 had. I remember after Playing Madden 2001 thinking it was sweet but
NFL2k1 was better. I couldn't even get my co workers to try out NFL2k1. Madden Sold the PS2 at launch more than anything.

This is different because the majority of the games that are going to be on the PS3 at launch are going to be on the 360 as well. And some of them may have been on the 360 for months. Madden 2007 is going to launch on the 360 in August (if they continue with normal release schedule) and 3 months later it's going to be on the PS3. So that takes away a big launch game there. Warhawk and Lair maybe great but will to aerial combat games have the Halo/Mario 64 effect and carry the launch?

Bottom line the PS2 to DC comparison isn't what we should be looking at it's the PS2 to Xbox launch what the comparisons should be made. And this time The 360 is in Sony's position can they maintain who knows. For a year or so yeah but after that it's anybodies guess.

[slade]

Everytime you post TMG, you astound me with the ignorance you show.

Your argument is flawed even greater, your reliance on the PS2 succession of the Dreamcast is misplaced. You need to be looking at the PS2 response to XBOX. First DC was not a follow system, it was a new system.

I guess you never heard of the Sega Saturn? The Sega CD? The Sega Genesis?

XBOX went through its newby trial process and survived, so 360 has market approval and recognition.

No more then Sega had when they launched the DC. MS has made their own plethora of mistakes. They rushed the 360's launch. They pissed all over their prior fanbase and four months after the system's launch it's still plagued by shortages.

Oh and thinking people are going to wait and keep playing PS2, okay yes of course some people will, but not admitting that a significant number of people will NOT wait is just foolish.

This is just you being stupid again. The significant number of people, those that spur hardware sales to the one hundred million mark, wait till at least the third or fourth year of the console to buy it. For the first two years, PS3 and 360 will only sell to the hardcores although PS3 is more likely to pull in those 'significant number of people' based on brand name then 360 will.

You need to look again at your top 20 list, the nextgen has started, and the PS2 despite its huge installed base is already being outpaced by the 360..... blah blah blah averagegamer..... xbot.... blah blah blah

We've had this conversation before and you've been proven wrong. Go check one of last year's NPD threads for this very same argument. This is basically just you taking what you used to say about Xbox's software sales and applying them to the 360. You ran away from that argument right after I posted a chart showing PS2's overall software sales were four times what Xbox had. You were wrong when you applied this crackpot theory to the Xbox and you're wrong now for applying it to the 360.

[joquito]

You'd be surprised by the number of parents who are willing to keep their toddlers satisfied. After all, it's these same parents that get the blame whenever somebody sells a console for 2000 dollars on Ebay. So, what is it? Are they going to capitulate to a salesman or are they going to go out there and spend spend spend?

Your argument is flawed on so many levels and it isn't any type of an absolute like you're pretending it is. My own argument is much the same but at least I've got history on my side. You've got nothing but some type of abnormal faith in Soccer moms.

Furthermore, with so many PS2 games still coming down the pipeline and into 2007, people may well just hang onto their current consoles until the one they want becomes available. This same strategy killed DC and it will do a number on the 360 as well.

Its not an argument but a fact. I am not referring to the market of adults who play videogames but the children who play. They may buy games with their allowance saving but the majority of their consoles are purchased by the parents. Go to any videogame store during the holiday season and watch the clueless parent buy a console solely based on the recommendation of the sales clerk. If what the kid asks for isn't available, the salesman makes an alternative recommendation. Parents rarely leave NOTHING under the christmas tree due to console shortages.

[slade]

What you don't take into account is the Revolution. It is far more likely to get the children demographic then the 360. In any event, if the child wants a PS3, that 360 will most likely get traded in. There are just some many factors here that you're not taking into account but that's what happens when you go based on purely anecdotal evidence.

[Zilla Man]

Yeah, I thought Zilla was going to send me a Nintendo catalog, but he ended up sending me a HUGE package filled with E3 stuff. It was really cool to see the kind of $$$ these companies spend on one-time print promotional materials.

Trebor, you and Gaddy will be getting more of the same this year as well, so no worries!

:)

[Zilla Man]

Uhm There was no EA on the DC hell 3rd party support on the DC was no where near what the 360 had. I remember after Playing Madden 2001 thinking it was sweet but
NFL2k1 was better. I couldn't even get my co workers to try out NFL2k1. Madden Sold the PS2 at launch more than anything.

This is different because the majority of the games that are going to be on the PS3 at launch are going to be on the 360 as well. And some of them may have been on the 360 for months. Madden 2007 is going to launch on the 360 in August (if they continue with normal release schedule) and 3 months later it's going to be on the PS3. So that takes away a big launch game there. Warhawk and Lair maybe great but will to aerial combat games have the Halo/Mario 64 effect and carry the launch?

Bottom line the PS2 to DC comparison isn't what we should be looking at it's the PS2 to Xbox launch what the comparisons should be made. And this time The 360 is in Sony's position can they maintain who knows. For a year or so yeah but after that it's anybodies guess.

You've made a good argument, Drunken. You may be right. It may be anybody's guess as to what things may be like in a year.

But with MS having alienated Xbox owners by dropping support, the shortages, the b/c debacle, the 360 actually doing worse than the Xbox did in Japan, as well as no killer app in sight to counter the PS3 launch.

EA is a non-factor. Especially since I've been hearing (from people at the company that the PS3 Madden may trump the 360 version the way the Xbox NFL 2k trumped the PS2 version. Remember how both versions were good, but the Xbox was better due to the fact that it had all thoise great harddrive features like custom soundtracks, halftime replay shows, etc. This time the 360 will be being programmed for the lowest common denominator (no Hard Drive), while the PS3 version will be programmed to run (as each machine supposedly has one).

But even if you're right, Drunken, let me ask you a question. Something that MG has been too cowardly to answer: Do you really think that MS will move 10 million units by November? Or even 5 miliion?

Seriously. The PS3 launch is only slightly over 6 months away. They'd have to move about 2 million a month to meet they're 1st goal. And about 1 million a month to get to half that. With PS2 software, PSP's, and DS's flying off the shelf and people excited for the Revy and PS3, do you really think tthese #'s are gonna happen?

IMHO, I think that MS will be lucky to reach 3 million by November.

[Tappy_Tibbons]

I think you are a racist for sayng that Slade.

[slade]

Racist for saying what? The pimp slap comment?

[Gadfly2317]

Wow. That "racist" thing came from out of nowhere. Actually had me re-reading the thread to find whatever it was Slade said. Maybe Tappy thinks children are a race.

[trebor]

Trebor, you and Gaddy will be getting more of the same this year as well, so no worries!

:)

Thanks, I would be appreciative of that. :D

I'm eager to read your post-E3 thread, since those usually are informative and pretty lively - as far as VGR threads go. Especially seeing as how this forum is virtually dead these days, we need a real kick in the pants to get this place going again.

[slade]

April just got a whole lot more interesting. MS has gone on record as saying that they've ironed out their shipment problems and consoles should be available starting in April. Sony just fired back by cutting the PS2's price to 129.99.

Got this from GAF:

Sony Computer Entertainment America Lowers the Price of PlayStation(R)2
Computer Entertainment System to $129.99

FOSTER CITY, Calif., April 20 /PRNewswire/ -- Sony Computer Entertainment
America Inc. today announced that it has made its PlayStation(R)2 computer
entertainment system more affordable than ever throughout North America.
Effective immediately, consumers can purchase the PlayStation 2 computer
entertainment system for a suggested retail price (SRP) of $129.99/$139.99
CND. The company expects this latest price move to fuel consumer demand even
further.
PlayStation 2 is the most popular gaming platform in North America,
Europe/PAL territories and Japan/Asia, the only gaming platform to enjoy such
widespread global success. To date, more than 101 million PlayStation 2 units
and approximately one billion pieces of software for the PlayStation 2 have
shipped worldwide, making it the fastest-selling gaming platform in the world.
According to The NPD Group, PlayStation 2 continues to lead console unit
market share with 55.6 percent in the U.S., more than double of any other
console on the market to date. PlayStation 2 also leads on the software front
with nearly a 70 percent lead over any other competitor when it comes to
software titles available at market in March *.
"While we continue to innovate and design groundbreaking new products, we
remain dedicated to our long-term vision for the PlayStation 2 platform," said
Kaz Hirai, president and CEO, Sony Computer Entertainment America. "Now even
more consumers, as well as casual gamers, can experience what the PlayStation
2 platform has to offer -- an unrivaled combination of the largest selection
of software, a growing community for online gaming and one-of-a-kind
accessories such as EyeToy(TM) -- at a new value price."
Sony Computer Entertainment America plans to support this new pricing
initiative through marketing activities covering print and online advertising,
and in-store merchandising support. Print advertising breaks on April 27th
and will reach millions of readers nationwide through placements in a variety
of daily newspapers including the Boston Globe, Chicago Tribune, Los Angeles
Times, New York Times and Philadelphia Inquirer. Online advertising will also
begin on April 27th on sites such as AOL.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Everytime you post TMG, you astound me with the ignorance you show.
Yes and my ignorance is trumped each time by yours. At least my ignorance accounts for both sides of an issue, while yours completely refutes one side and asserts your view as absolute. So pardon me for being ignorant to think that some people this holiday will wait and some won't. The point is some people who would have bought a PS3 will end up with a 360 and after they get it probably will be very happy and not look back.

As far as what is going to happen for the duration of the life cycles; I think Sony will end up with the most installed, but I think it will be much much closer. You talk about MS messing up their launch, but it really didn't matter because they didn't have any competition. You forget Sony blew their original launch and fell back and are trying to squeeze in a worldwide launch with very few units to go around. Their screw up is far more costly because you have Revy and 360 there to pick up the slack. Anyway, this is obvious to anyone but you. I don't know why i'm even arguing this point because I am not anti-PS3 this generation, i'll probably have one before you by a mile. But regardless of our personal preferences, 360 is doing very well and Sony's stupid idea that the nextgen doesn't start until they do is crazy, Sony will eff around and get left in the dust. With these software numbers consumers have BEEN ready for the nextgen.


<b>
I guess you never heard of the Sega Saturn? The Sega CD? The Sega Genesis?
</b> Oh please, before the DC Sega had taken a generation off, that's the point.

<b>
No more then Sega had when they launched the DC. MS has made their own plethora of mistakes. They rushed the 360's launch. They pissed all over their prior fanbase and four months after the system's launch it's still plagued by shortages.</b> Yup, and with no competition for the present those mistakes aren't as costly. Sony won't have that luxury, it will cost them something, the question is how many people will switch to 360.


<b>
This is just you being stupid again. The significant number of people, those that spur hardware sales to the one hundred million mark, wait till at least the third or fourth year of the console to buy it. For the first two years, PS3 and 360 will only sell to the hardcores although PS3 is more likely to pull in those 'significant number of people' based on brand name then 360 will.</b> Well it seems to me the people who spur hardware sales to 100 million are the people who had to buy a new PS2 because the one they had broke, the people who choose to buy a slim PS2 just cause it looks better. I would say if Sony sells 100 million PS2s then 60% of those are repeat buyers. That's not a bad thing but its not like there are 100 million people out there buying software. That's my opinion obviously, but there are a huge number of people on their 2nd if not 3rd machines and many just chose to buy a slimline. But your basic point is true, I'm not disputing that and never have Sony is still the mainstream console and MS is still the one for hardcore, educated, users with money and sense.

[slade]

Yes and my ignorance is trumped each time by yours. At least my ignorance accounts for both sides of an issue, while yours completely refutes one side and asserts your view as absolute.

This is rich coming from a guy that for this entire generation said that the PS2 was a crap console with crap games.

<b>
I guess you never heard of the Sega Saturn? The Sega CD? The Sega Genesis?
</b> Oh please, before the DC Sega had taken a generation off, that's the point.

Like I said, you've probably never heard of the Sega Saturn. Probably missed it while you were gaming on the PC.

<b>
No more then Sega had when they launched the DC. MS has made their own plethora of mistakes. They rushed the 360's launch. They pissed all over their prior fanbase and four months after the system's launch it's still plagued by shortages.</b> Yup, and with no competition for the present those mistakes aren't as costly. Sony won't have that luxury, it will cost them something, the question is how many people will switch to 360.

You could have said the same thing about Sega with the Dreamcast. Regardless, the mistakes are costly, especially having to do with the shortage. Weren't you the one saying that MS had no choice but to launch before Sony and that this time lead would help them? They had five months to themselves with relatively little hype from Sony and they squandered that time. Next month at E3, Sony's going to start that snowball rolling and MS is going to get crushed if they rely on the same marketing they used during the Xbox days.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

You've made a good argument, Drunken. You may be right. It may be anybody's guess as to what things may be like in a year.

But with MS having alienated Xbox owners by dropping support, the shortages, the b/c debacle, the 360 actually doing worse than the Xbox did in Japan, as well as no killer app in sight to counter the PS3 launch.

EA is a non-factor. Especially since I've been hearing (from people at the company that the PS3 Madden may trump the 360 version the way the Xbox NFL 2k trumped the PS2 version. Remember how both versions were good, but the Xbox was better due to the fact that it had all thoise great harddrive features like custom soundtracks, halftime replay shows, etc. This time the 360 will be being programmed for the lowest common denominator (no Hard Drive), while the PS3 version will be programmed to run (as each machine supposedly has one).

But even if you're right, Drunken, let me ask you a question. Something that MG has been too cowardly to answer: Do you really think that MS will move 10 million units by November? Or even 5 miliion?

Seriously. The PS3 launch is only slightly over 6 months away. They'd have to move about 2 million a month to meet they're 1st goal. And about 1 million a month to get to half that. With PS2 software, PSP's, and DS's flying off the shelf and people excited for the Revy and PS3, do you really think tthese #'s are gonna happen?

IMHO, I think that MS will be lucky to reach 3 million by November.

If the PS3 has a better version of Madden I don't think it will be affective because the die hards those who will buy a new Console will have had a chance to buy next gen madden twice by the time the PS3 ships. Besides if the Xbox has told us anything better versions of games doesnt always equate to better sells

MS shipping 10 million by Novemember when they barely shipped over 20 million Xboxes in 4 years I doubt unless they have GTA exlusive of something but I doubt it. The PS brand is just so strong I really think MS needs to stop directly competeing and just focus on building a successful brand right now. They need to increase they marketshare make a profit. Then maybe worry about Sony. Some people who really aren't a die hard Sony fan just so used to the Playstation brand doesn't see any real reason to switch. Regardless what's on another season. Sony gives them enough of what they want and that's what they've always done so why change.

On another note can you see if Visual Concepts is going to make that rumored "Legends of the Gridiron" football game. Any other major games or news I'm sure you'll cover.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

If the PS3 has a better version of Madden I don't think it will be affective because the die hards those who will buy a new Console will have had a chance to buy next gen madden twice by the time the PS3 ships. Besides if the Xbox has told us anything better versions of games doesnt always equate to better sells

MS shipping 10 million by Novemember when they barely shipped over 20 million Xboxes in 4 years I doubt unless they have GTA exlusive of something but I doubt it. The PS brand is just so strong I really think MS needs to stop directly competeing and just focus on building a successful brand right now. They need to increase they marketshare make a profit. Then maybe worry about Sony. Some people who really aren't a die hard Sony fan just so used to the Playstation brand doesn't see any real reason to switch. Regardless what's on another season. Sony gives them enough of what they want and that's what they've always done so why change.

On another note can you see if Visual Concepts is going to make that rumored "Legends of the Gridiron" football game. Any other major games or news I'm sure you'll cover.


Plus he's got it all wrong, as usual. MS never said they had to ship 10 million units before PS3 launched. What I read from MS is that the first console to 10 million usually wins, that is what MS said. So they think they only need to be the first to 10 million and that is very very possible. MS could easily reach10 million before PS3. Now, I, personally don't think that is going to guarantee them any kind of advantage over Sony, but it would be a good thing to do, to reach that figure before PS3. What these guys don't really realize, and they should given the problems MS just went through, is that a worldwide launch is tough, and that Sony is not immune to production and distribution problems. Even if they pull it all off without a glitch, they still will be leaving millions of people without a console. I don't know who is going to win the overall race 5 years from now, but I know MS is going to have a very good year and if Sony would have had their ducks in row, launching a full year later with a console that was designed at the same time as 360, then MS' wouldn't be as good as it will be.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

This is rich coming from a guy that for this entire generation said that the PS2 was a crap console with crap games. It is, just because I like the direction Sony is going with the PS3 and I like the technology, that doesn't change how I feel about the PS2. The PS2 was and is crap. A lot of the stuff u are getting on the PS3, we've had on XBOX and have been enjoying. Your getting a HDD, big deal, that's old news, your getting good graphics, big deal old news, your getting a LIVE like service, big deal old news. And XBOX had standard 480P which was not true HD, but it was a big deal to people who had widescreen HD digital sets back then. And the games, you guys are just getting tourist trophy, and it sux compared to Motogp a game we got year one on XBOX. And from halo, to half-life2, if you like the kinds of games i like then there is no way the PS2 would have been an option last generation. Now do I realize the PS2 is a good fit for other gamers, yes, obviously for more gamers than XBOX. But for me, I would never have bought one. Just like this generation the Revolution is not suited for me, while 360 and PS3 are. So it really is simple its a matter of preference, just like u say the XBOX is too big and bulky for Japanese gamers and doesn't play their games, I have no idea why u can't understand last gen PS2 was not for a lot of us.


<b>
Like I said, you've probably never heard of the Sega Saturn. Probably missed it while you were gaming on the PC.</b> Okay, so there was the Saturn. The point is the 360 is following a popular and successful console that is on an uptick, the DC followed a product that was DEAD ON ARRIVAL! Your analogy is completely misplaced.


<b>
You could have said the same thing about Sega with the Dreamcast. Regardless, the mistakes are costly, especially having to do with the shortage. Weren't you the one saying that MS had no choice but to launch before Sony and that this time lead would help them? They had five months to themselves with relatively little hype from Sony and they squandered that time. Next month at E3, Sony's going to start that snowball rolling and MS is going to get crushed if they rely on the same marketing they used during the Xbox days.</b> You act as if November is tomorrow and you act as if Santa is going to bring 5 million PS3s to American stores. Wake up Slade, it is not MS that should have been perfect with their launch, there was NO COMP. Anyway, you will see. Maybe you will see come XMAS when there is a big blank spot under your tree. Then you will probably be thinking, damn I could be playing Lost Odysee or Chromehounds, and hey i can still get a PS3 later. Of course you probably wont, because of your irrational bias, but other families will. And though they may intend to get a PS3 later, they may not, or they might but still end up buying more 360 games into the future. Its just not good for Sony to have shortages when they are facing a rival, especially when half of their games will be on the 360 anyway, and half of 360's games will be better than anything PS3 can't produce at launch. But according to you, nobody will give it a thought and they will all happily wait till march or april.

[slade]

<b>
Like I said, you've probably never heard of the Sega Saturn. Probably missed it while you were gaming on the PC.</b> Okay, so there was the Saturn. The point is the 360 is following a popular and successful console that is on an uptick, the DC followed a product that was DEAD ON ARRIVAL! Your analogy is completely misplaced.

The Saturn was competition for Sony in Japan so it stands to reason that the DC could have at least made some headway there. That's a very close comparison to 360 and the Xbox's overall presence in N. America.

blah blah blah.... But according to you, nobody will give it a thought and they will all happily wait till march or april.

Hey, it happened with the DC, didn't it. In the overall scheme of things it doesn't matter whether there's a shortage for the PS3. Even PS2 may outsell 360 this holiday season like the PSX outsold the DC. There's still a 99 dollar price drop for the console that should push a few more units out the door. You're overestimating MS's brand but that's ok, we all know your biases and the hypocricy that spurs them on. Keep on searching for those new game experiences TMG, all the while ignoring the only console that will bring them to your favorite genres.

As for me waiting, I've got Okami, God Hand, FFXII, and various other games that I have not caught up with yet on my PS2. I'm in no hurry to jump onboard the next gen.

[Zilla Man]

On another note can you see if Visual Concepts is going to make that rumored "Legends of the Gridiron" football game. Any other major games or news I'm sure you'll cover.

Sure, I'll try and find out for ya. Just post a reminder in my upcoming E3 requests thread, okay?

[ThaMaskedGamer]

The Saturn was competition for Sony in Japan so it stands to reason that the DC could have at least made some headway there. That's a very close comparison to 360 and the Xbox's overall presence in N. America.



Hey, it happened with the DC, didn't it. In the overall scheme of things it doesn't matter whether there's a shortage for the PS3. Even PS2 may outsell 360 this holiday season like the PSX outsold the DC. There's still a 99 dollar price drop for the console that should push a few more units out the door. You're overestimating MS's brand but that's ok, we all know your biases and the hypocricy that spurs them on. Keep on searching for those new game experiences TMG, all the while ignoring the only console that will bring them to your favorite genres.

As for me waiting, I've got Okami, God Hand, FFXII, and various other games that I have not caught up with yet on my PS2. I'm in no hurry to jump onboard the next gen.

We will just have to agree to disagree on the DC comparison. I know you don't really believe the 360 is going the route of the DC, u may be biased but I don't think you are stupid.

It is you who thinks the world revolves around how you feel. "As for me waiting, i've got Okami, God Hand, FFXII...I'm in no hurry..." Okay Slade that's you. This is April and 360 with a splintered installed base has hundreds of thousands of people buying games and there are hundreds of thousands more people waiting to buy a 360. I guess you feel that there is a finite number of people who want the 360 and once those people get it, no one else could be interested in the system.

Then you talk about me ignoring my favorite genres on another system? What the PS2, um sorry my favorite genres aren't on the PS2 and if they are they are in unplayable form.

Anyway we are arguing, now at least, about last years winners and losers. This fall people aren't going to be necessarily looking for all the old games in the same clothes. I do not know what Gears of War is going to be like, I do not know what Chromehounds and Mass Effect are going to be like. Just like I don't know what some of the PS3 games are going to be like. When the holidays come those games could change everybody's opinion and 360 which already is on every gamer's mind could change everything with games like these. Mass Effect could become nextgenerations Final Fantasy, Gears of War could become nexgens Halo. We don't know. But things don't and won't stay the same and we don't know who the winners are going to be. In that uncertainty is how fortunes change my friend. Now, I don't particularly care who gets the winners and losers(except for Revy, I don't want the winners on that system), cause i'll have a 360 upstairs and a PS3 downstairs. But I just think this year is going to be 360's year because PS3 is launching and will have launch games and not enough systems to go around.

And believe me, i'm NOT ignoring the potential for my favorite genres to shine on the PS3. Believe me if I thought the PS3 was going to be stuck with J-RPGs and a bunch of games like Rachet and Clank, I would NOT be getting the system. I'm getting the system for the new franchises and hopefully modern(finally) and good versions of games like MetalGear4 and Killzone2. When PS3 was announced last year, I also said with a system like this(tech wise) if they get an online network I'd buy it. Well, it looks like they are, even though I don't believe it will be better than LIVE, it is a start, and eventually it could be better. But it doesn't have to be, it just has to play games well.

[slade]

Then you talk about me ignoring my favorite genres on another system? What the PS2, um sorry my favorite genres aren't on the PS2 and if they are they are in unplayable form.

Actually, I was referring to the Revolution.

I'm not saying that 360 is going the route of the DC but the comparisons are there and they are worrying. It makes me wonder if this gen doesn't turn out the way MS wants whether they will just dump the 360 in four years for the 720.

And there's more then me who'll wait because the PS2 is still coming out with kickass games. So far, the only indicator of whether people really want a 360 or not will be when April's NPD is posted. And with the PS2 pricedrop, Sony may still come out on top. I'm gonna stick with my predictions.

[Superjoint Ritual]

Yes, rejoice in the fact that nerds all over the world own the 360. Thankfully, their population doesn't seem too high. Who's the one posting NPD numbers in a videogame forum?

[slade]

Who's the one posting NPD numbers in a videogame forum?

You!!!!!!

[Superjoint Ritual]

You!!!!!!It's true guys, I' am a nerd. :(

[Tappy_Tibbons]

Oblivion is the better game. 100mil PS2s vs 3mil 360s...seriously Slade, do you understand logic?

[slade]

Oblivion is the better game. 100mil PS2s vs 3mil 360s...seriously Slade, do you understand logic?

Actually, it's only 1.3 million 360's. And don't talk to me about logic when folks like TMG like to go on and on about how PS2 doesn't sell any software.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Actually, it's only 1.3 million 360's. And don't talk to me about logic when folks like TMG like to go on and on about how PS2 doesn't sell any software.

It doesn't for the size of its installed base. Let me ask u, how many games on Ps2 do you think are as good as Halo or Halo2? Now how many have sold as many units as Halo2?

The last NPD numbers show that 360 had as many units in the top 10 as PS2. Now u guys point how PS2 keeps putting out great games and there is no need to buy a 360, no need to start the next gen. Well if 360 is already with only a million installed challenging PS2 for monthly sales dominance one of the following must be true:

A) Most PS2 aren't buying games
B) There aren't many good games after all

Now, nobody is saying the PS2 doesn't sell the most software, of course it does, but if you look at the ratios of software sold to purported installed base, the PS2 is not selling enough. The other thing I think that drags that ratio down is the installed number is way bloated. An analyst the other day said that PS2 has 40 million units installed in the US, I think that number is actual 25-30 million. I think a significant number of those sales are people replacing a broken unit or buying a slimline console.

EDIT: Another thing that doesn't quite jive with the supposed performance of the PS2 is you would think that more developers and publishers would be passing over the 360 and going to PS3 exclusively if the Playstation brand sold enough software. First of all, as everybody knows development costs are huge so if you are gonna make a lot of money on PS3, why bother with 360, especially since Asia is not supporting the console. Instead you seem to have more exclusives being announced for 360. More projects coming to 360 and the PS3. And I will say this also, if there is a performance difference between PS3 and 360, developers don't know. Because guys like Valve are doing 360 only stuff, and you would think that the PS3 market and the fact PS3 is supposed to feature OPEN GL tools, u would think that would motivate a lot of developers especially PC developers to focus on PS3. It just doesnt seem to be happening. Past week we find out Valve is doing 360 exclusive stuff, and FEAR is coming to 360, and GTR the pc racing game is coming to 360. A MMORPG based on the Marvel universe is coming to 360(not quite sure if this one is skipping PS3). So, I think the real deal for publishers and developers must be that they are more profitable on the XBOX than the Playstation. Their cost structure and development ability must be a better deal on Microsoft platforms.

Its funny also how you guys claim the XBOX is dead. We just had a garage sell, and I sold my second XBOX to an 11th grade girl, who sold her PS2 for $100. She bought my XBOX for $60 with about 7 games. I just found it odd, that a teen-age girl sold her PS2 to buy a "dead" system. And on top of that a guy bought my driving wheel for XBOX for $40. They asked me why I was getting rid of my XBOX I told them I had a 360 and they both said they wanted one, I didn't ask if they wanted a PS3. Another kid bought Death Row from me for $7. I sold ALL my old XBOX gear and games, though I did keep a few games like Forza and Ninja Gaiden, but I was surprised that kids are still interested in the original XBOX and its old games. I know these stories are subjective, but still it ties in to the momentum the XBOX brand has in the market. My co-worker was finally able to get a 360 a week ago after months of waiting. I'll be really interested to see the hardware numbers for 360 now that product is distributing freely.

[slade]

:rolleyes: And there's my example. I already schooled you here kid. Sony makes four times the amount that MS makes on software. Conversely, they've also sold four times the amount that the X-box has sold in N. America. Go back to your corner junior, you're far too ignorant and your anecdotal evidence about how no one wants a PS2 conflicts with the hard data that the monthly NPD shows us.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

:rolleyes: And there's my example. I already schooled you here kid. Sony makes four times the amount that MS makes on software. Conversely, they've also sold four times the amount that the X-box has sold in N. America. Go back to your corner junior, you're far too ignorant and your anecdotal evidence about how no one wants a PS2 conflicts with the hard data that the monthly NPD shows us.

Yeah, you keep schooling everybody, but it just doesn't seem to agree with what's happening in the industry. First of all I am not confirming or denying your claim about 4 times the software, I don't feel like checking, but it sounds reasonable. What we don't know is if the developers and publishers are reaching the profit numbers they want on the PS2 or are they doing that better on the XBOX. And we don't what the Revenue and Cost Structure for the two machines will be in the next generation. But it is interesting, whether or not u want to acknowledge it, that so many are stepping to support 360 exclusively or with the same project on PS3. It is interesting because it was believed that the PC companies and others were supporting XBOX because the PS2 wasn't powerful enough for games like Doom3 and HL2, and also it takes too long to develop games on PS2. Well, now with the power of PS3, supposedly better development tools, those are no longer concerns, yet we are still seeing more companies go to 360. And if u no longer have those two issues, and it costs just as much and is just as difficult, would it not be smart to just develop games on the PS3. If you are correct and Sony is correct, PS3 will outperform the 360, just as easily as PS2 did XBOX.

I think these analyst know a lot more about this industry than we give them credit for. They know the behind the scenes relationships and contracts that are being written, a platform can't be successful without successful games and that requires developers and publishers, I think the reason why analyst are predicting 360 to either come out on top or at least be equal with PS3, is they knew these kinds of relationships with Capcom, and Valve way before it was publicized.

[slade]

But it is interesting, whether or not u want to acknowledge it, that so many are stepping to support 360 exclusively or with the same project on PS3.

Oh gee, I don't know, maybe it has something to do with the frickin' huge cost of developing for these machines. Any way to maximize profit you know. But even in that, you have the odd case where there are third parties that will make exclusives for one platforms. Take the recent announcement by Sega that confirms VF5 as a PS3 exclusive for one. I don't really see that much disparity in what support third parties are giving PS3/X360 then the support then gave PS2/Xbox anyway.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

I don't really see that much disparity in what support third parties are giving PS3/X360 then the support then gave PS2/Xbox anyway.

That's right not that much difference. But that is part of my point. Take Valve for instance on of the biggest and most respected PC developers out there. Now last year they couldn't do HL2 on the PS2, but don't u think they wanted to?

Now fast forward to the nextgen and you have a choice between developing exclusively for PS3 or 360. You no longer have to worry about power, in fact PS3 is more powerful. You no longer have to worry about development, PS3 supports OpenGL. So why would Valve choose 360?

You hit the nail on the head when you said oh gee maybe they are trying to maximize profits. Yes, that is my point, even though u were trying to be sarcastic. The point is they just didn't flip a coin. They did some type of analysis and decided we can make more money on 360.

I'm telling you the Playstation installed base is not the pot of honey it would seem. And I think it is probably even worse on PS3, now publishers have to buy Blu-ray disc, their royalties are probably higher on PS3, and i'm sure development costs are still higher on the PS3.

[slade]

You're careening all over the place. The comparison between PS3 and PS2 doesn't really hold much weight and that is much more true since the price announcement yesterday. Sony is practically handing MS the reins to the next gen market. That would influence third parties who are in the know more then you or I.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

You're careening all over the place. The comparison between PS3 and PS2 doesn't really hold much weight and that is much more true since the price announcement yesterday. Sony is practically handing MS the reins to the next gen market. That would influence third parties who are in the know more then you or I.

Well it seems like they are, logically it really does. And it seems like there must be a lot of backlash in the industry against Sony. Because this is kinda like taking a huge risk if you are a developer or publisher. PS1 was a monster, PS2 was a monster, and so now gaming companies are betting against PS3? All the logic seems to indicate Sony is mistepping and over estimating their value, but the one thing in Sony's favor is the consumers. Consumers don't make decisions logically and companies like Valve could find themselves turning around quickly and supporting PS3.

[Mochan]

I'd just like to point out again that Valve is far from being one of the biggest PC game developers.

So why would Valve choose 360?

Because the PS3 isn't out yet. The 360 had a headstart. Also, is this an exclusive deal? Did Valve say they would be on the XBox only and not develop for any other platform?

For all we know they will announce PS3 support later on.

Epic did this, and has pledged PS3 support on top of its 360 support. The PS3 will get more support a little later on considering it's about a year behind the 360. I'm not expecting as much support for it from PC devs, no surprise since the Playstation is about Japanese support first and foremost. Nobody is expecting the 360 to garner more Japanese support than the 360, after all. Likewise, I'm not expecting the PS3 to get more Western PC dev support than the 360.


Its funny also how you guys claim the XBOX is dead. We just had a garage sell, and I sold my second XBOX to an 11th grade girl, who sold her PS2 for $100. She bought my XBOX for $60 with about 7 games. I just found it odd, that a teen-age girl sold her PS2 to buy a "dead" system.

And look! The PS2, with all its inferior hardware, sold for more than the XBox! Don't be confused; the Xbox is dead not because people are no longer buying it, the Xbox is dead because MS is no longer developing for it, and no longer shipping any Xboxes. Whereas the PS2 is still alive and kicking with more games coming out for it, and more PS2s still being shipped brand new as we speak.

This argument has no merit.


Oh, and:

A lot of the stuff u are getting on the PS3, we've had on XBOX and have been enjoying.

A lot of the stuff you are getting on the Xbox 260, we've had on the PC and have been enjoying. :p