Ubisoft Revolution FPS revealed [Archive]

Gadfly2317

04-09-2006, 07:34 AM

Wow, that looks pretty good...the only issues I have is that it may run at poor frames per second, considering the Revs lackluster hardware.
I really hope this is not some elaborate, but late, April fools joke.

The whole "lackluster hardware" thing has been way overblown. The games are going to look good even if they are short a few of the effects the more powerful systems are offering. When you read what the gameplay is like for this game, and then consider how damned good it looks. . .I would be shocked if Xbot's weren't frothing for this game. I mean, I'm stoked for a lot of stuff on 360 at this point; how can the shooter fans not be stoked about Red Steel? Gun-and-sword play at the same time, liberated from the tyranny of the ancient, low-tech thumbsticks? You wanna talk lackluster hardware: great graphics are old news. . .the real lackluster hardware is the Ps3 and 360's hardware functioning EXACTLY the same way game hardware has for generations.

Also, here's a transcription of the visibile text in the screenshots posted online, courtesy joystiq.com:

"not to assign any personality to the main character. You are the hero in Red Steel and this is your adventure. The only backstory to the protagonist is that he is an american male who is engaged to a Japanese American woman name Myu. On the night that you are supposed to meet Myu's father for the first time, she is kidnapped from the psh Los Angeleles restaurant you're dining in. You quickly learn that her father is a Yakuza boss named Sato, who is in possesion of an important ceremonial katana. A younger, more ruthless Yakuza faction led by a man called Tokal attempted to steal the sword from Sato to shift the balance of power within the organization. Sato thwarted the attempt to steal the sword, but was mortally wounded in the attack. Tokal's men kidnap Myu in response, hoping to trade her life for the sword. But Sato refuses to hand over the sword to Toakl, instead giving it to you, with the instructions to use it to find his daughter. Sato dies soon after diving you the sword, leaving you all alone and untrained against Tokal's men. Armed with the katana and a selection of firearms, you myst follow Myu to Japan and defeat Tokal, but first you must gain the skills necessary to confront him. According to --- the first third of the game will be more brutal by necessity. When you are first learning to use the Revolution controller, you will be less precise and --- (blurry and cuts off)

"a series of headshots, it is often more beneficial to take a non-lethal shot, such as shooting a gun out of an enemy's hands. I mnay situtations, there wil be a higher-ranking enemy who commands the others in the area. By defeating him and sparing his life, he will offer you his respect and help. The enemies he commands will surrender their guns and the boss may offer you a new weapon, a special path through the level, or other reward. Any time you spare an enemy, you will be rewarded. as it always takes more skill to spare a life than to take it. Freeze shot adds a lot of dpeth to the gunplay and is a natural fit for the Revolution controller, but isn't the only way that Red Steel adds spice to the combat. After all, why would you carry a sword through a game if you couldn't use it? Although the majority of Red Steel's gameplay will stress ranged combat, there will be times you need to get up close and personal. You can switch to the sword at any time, and if you can get close enougn to an enemy, you can use it for on-hit stealth kills. In other moments, you'll find yourself locked into intense one-on-one sword duels. Any time you take on an enemy with a sword of his own, you'll need to take yours out right away, or his blade will make short work of you. Swinging the Revolution controller in front of you, you will see the sword onscreen (cut off)"

Gadfly2317

04-09-2006, 07:39 AM

Where's Mochan?

Pandarbock

04-09-2006, 10:22 AM

Man I can't wait to see the first death blamed on this game where you now "act out the killings in actual motions and gestures" and good old Lieberman request that nintendo be shut down for allowing such a violent game. Who knows this game could be the GTA for nintendo that sells so many systems just like what happened with GTA 3 after its widespread negative publicity.

theWacoKid

04-09-2006, 11:28 AM

GameLegend

04-09-2006, 11:40 AM

Yeah, I can see nintendo being sued, as a four year old uses the controller to batter a sleeping parent into a coma, mimicking what he just played on his revolution. Kids defense lawyer, little Timmy just wanted to see if what he did in game worked in the real world.

You've got some imagination. Its almost seems like, if u are going to post something regarding Nintendo, it just has to, has to, be negative. Even if it is some made up hypothetical scenario that will probably never happen, u posted it cuz its negative towards Nintendo’s Rev.

Fanboy. Go hang out with GamerToday.

Gadfly2317

04-09-2006, 02:19 PM

theWacoKid

04-09-2006, 05:01 PM

You've got some imagination. Its almost seems like, if u are going to post something regarding Nintendo, it just has to, has to, be negative. Even if it is some made up hypothetical scenario that will probably never happen, u posted it cuz its negative towards Nintendo’s Rev.

Fanboy. Go hang out with GamerToday.

I was reponding to panda's post. He brought out the GTA references and LIeberman, so next time, just do yourself a favor and STFU! Why aren't you down his throat, you bloody hypocrite!

GameLegend

04-09-2006, 08:24 PM

I was reponding to panda's post. He brought out the GTA references and LIeberman, so next time, just do yourself a favor and STFU! Why aren't you down his throat, you bloody hypocrite!

I probably did read his post, but i skimmed through it not really understanding what he was saying.

I apologize.

mandark

04-09-2006, 08:51 PM

Hot-digidy-damn! This is exactly what I was expecting how the Rev controller will be used. I just hope that the fluidity and accuracy will be there. To think that this game will be a first generation game for the Rev is staggering. Just imagine what will be next!

I for one am hoping for a peripheral where the Rev controller will be attached to a rifle mockup, like a lightgun, but all the actions, ie walking, jumping, sidestepping, etc. will be controlled through the same peripheral to give the most intense FPS action game that can be experienced this coming next gen of consoles.

It would be really funny if developers name the "kiddy", "gimmicky" Rev THE console to get for FPS games. That would be a SLAP to MS's and the Bots while I and some others would laugh and point our fingers at the Bots.

mandark

04-09-2006, 09:06 PM

I think this stands a chance of making a FPS that's not boring to me. . .I'm sick of using thumbsticks, which has got to be the lamest way in the universe to try and simulate aiming and shooting.

It really is cracking me up that I'm stoked for a FPS Shooter on a Nintendo system, and stoked for a Japanese cult game on Xbox 360 (Culdcept Live.) I never woulda imagined this possible a couple years ago.
Whats promising is that Jolt.co mentioned that the game is being developed by a team comprised of people who developed Prince of Persia, Ghost Recon, Splinter Cell, and Far Cry. Also the game is supposed to be hella violent. Here's the article:

"Game Informer magazine has leaked the front cover of its next issue, in which a new Revolution title is depicted.
The game has been identified as "Red Steel," a new title being developed by Ubisoft's Paris studio, comprising of former creatives who have worked on some of the publishers most loved franchises - Prince of Persia, Far Cry, Ghost Recon, and Splinter Cell.

The front cover shows a pistol and a katana, seemingly tying in with the rumour that emerged last week in Europe. A mysterious title named “Katana” was said to be in development at Ubisoft, reportedly focusing on shooting and swordplay. The game is also said to be violent and especially adult-themed – most unlike titles usually in development for Nintendo systems.

As ever, expect more details on Red Steel and/or Katana at next month’s E3."--www.jolt.co.uk

What was that about "weak hardware" again?
360 what?
LOFL!

Pandarbock

04-09-2006, 09:39 PM

I for one am hoping for a peripheral where the Rev controller will be attached to a rifle mockup, like a lightgun, but all the actions, ie walking, jumping, sidestepping, etc. will be controlled through the same peripheral to give the most intense FPS action game that can be experienced this coming next gen of consoles.

I for one would love a pump shot gun attachment with a good deal of force feed back that would be darned cool imo.

Gadfly2317

04-10-2006, 03:30 AM

I for one would love a pump shot gun attachment with a good deal of force feed back that would be darned cool imo.

That would be cool, but it's the swordplay that has me most interested, and I'm still praying for a revival of Bushido Blade.

I took a stab at fencing classes a few years ago, and though I gave it up as too sweaty and time consuming, it really gave me an appreciation for the subtleties involved. . .subtleties that have never been possible in gaming before, but which the Rev controller might be able to capture.

mandark

04-10-2006, 09:52 PM

That would be cool, but it's the swordplay that has me most interested, and I'm still praying for a revival of Bushido Blade.

I took a stab at fencing classes a few years ago, and though I gave it up as too sweaty and time consuming, it really gave me an appreciation for the subtleties involved. . .subtleties that have never been possible in gaming before, but which the Rev controller might be able to capture.
Then lets all pray that LucasArts takes a stab(pun intended) at the Rev controller and bring us a Jedi lightsaber based game ala DarkForces. That would be the shiznitz.

BTW, I can't believe the Xbots haven't come in here yet yelling "FAKE!". They're all probably SH77ING their pants right now.

Pandarbock

04-10-2006, 10:34 PM

Then lets all pray that LucasArts takes a stab(pun intended) at the Rev controller and bring us a Jedi lightsaber based game ala DarkForces. That would be the shiznitz.

BTW, I can't believe the Xbots haven't come in here yet yelling "FAKE!". They're all probably SH77ING their pants right now.

Either that or they don't care because they refuse to admit that thumbsticks are complete crap for aiming in FPS's.

mandark

04-10-2006, 11:31 PM

Either that or they don't care because they refuse to admit that thumbsticks are complete crap for aiming in FPS's.

I know what you mean. The 360, and in a way the PS3, are really nothing more but hardware upgrades to pretty much do the same thing the Xbox and the PS2 is now delivering. The only saving grace for the PS3 is that it will most likely retain the exclusive games the PS2 enjoys now. Its too bad 360's and Rev gamers will never be able to play deathmatches against each other. That "remote" controller will definitely own the Bots, especially if the accuracy is there.

QUESTION: If the REV proves to be a serious FPS platform, I wonder how many XBots will cave in to experience this unique experience? Will any dare to be a KItty?

DrunkenThumbmaster

04-11-2006, 07:20 AM

Gadfly2317

04-11-2006, 07:55 AM

Damn I want this game. I think I'm going to get a revolution more interested in one than a PS3 anyway.

I think a lot of you are jumping the gun about the rev's superiority in controlling FPS sure the aiming maybe more precise (Maybe!) but the character movement I still see as a problem. It seems to me that most games will have to be on rails I couldn't imagine playing halo with the wand! How would you control a warthog? I know they have the nunchuck extension (does that come with the system?) but I'm still skeptical.

But in the end this game here does sound awesome.

P.S. I would have rather seen a controller similar to the wavebird with motion detection. Imagine the 360 controller with motion detection (sweet) come on MS ripp of Nintendo!

I think the left thumbstick control for movement, combined with the wand, should make movement no-problem. Shouldn't need rails.

I know what you mean about ripping off Nintendo. If the control really does turn out to be "all that" and improves multiple kinds of games, I'd love to see it ripped off, if only because I'd love to see the control implemented for a lot of franchises exclusive to the other consoles.

GameLegend

04-11-2006, 09:10 AM

When the revolution controlle was first revealed. i believe it was the EGM or 1up writer to commented how they think Nintendo just developed the next PS4 controller.

mandark

04-11-2006, 05:20 PM

Damn I want this game. I think I'm going to get a revolution more interested in one than a PS3 anyway.

I think a lot of you are jumping the gun about the rev's superiority in controlling FPS sure the aiming maybe more precise (Maybe!) but the character movement I still see as a problem. It seems to me that most games will have to be on rails I couldn't imagine playing halo with the wand! How would you control a warthog? I know they have the nunchuck extension (does that come with the system?) but I'm still skeptical.

But in the end this game here does sound awesome.

P.S. I would have rather seen a controller similar to the wavebird with motion detection. Imagine the 360 controller with motion detection (sweet) come on MS ripp of Nintendo!
I thought everyone has seen the add ons to the Rev controller. Here's sure fire proof that Rev games does not have to be on rails. Enjoy.

Rogue Bounty Hunter

04-11-2006, 07:56 PM

I hope that cord will be longer than the one in the pic.

GameLegend

04-12-2006, 05:26 AM

I hope that cord will be longer than the one in the pic.
Trust me, it will. The cord is small only to show there isnt clutter. Check out the console pictures infront of the box, none of them showlong cords

Gadfly2317

04-12-2006, 07:07 AM

It can only help the Revolution to have a major company like Ubisoft saying things like "gameplay possible only with the Revolution's remarkable controller."

From a marketing point of view, the whole press release is using key phrases Nintendo is trying to saturate their coverage with, but still. If the hype is even remotely true. . . damn!

http://www.ubisoftgroup.com/News/Info.aspx?nId=3881

4/11/2006 - Ubisoft unveils exclusive Nintendo Revolution Title: Red Steel™
Paris, FRANCE – APRIL 11, 2006 – Today Ubisoft, one of the world’s largest video game publishers, announced the development of Red Steel™, an exclusive first-person action title for the Nintendo Revolution (working name of the new Nintendo platform). Red Steel is set in modern-day Japan. Players will master both the ancient art of the katana and the sophisticated technology of modern firearms taking advantage of the emotion and immersive gameplay possible only with the Revolution’s remarkable controller.

“We’re honored to announce this exciting new franchise and we’re confident that
Red Steel will be the must-have title for the Revolution when it launches,” said Serge Hascoet, chief creative officer at Ubisoft. “We have been working closely with Nintendo to take full advantage of the innovative controller to create a thrilling experience that can only exist on the Revolution.”

Red Steel will make its worldwide debut in May 2006 at E3 in Los Angeles. With the style and flair of a contemporary action movie, Red Steel will appeal to gamers who thirst for a new video game experience, as well as those who may have not previously considered picking up a controller.

“Nintendo is excited to have Ubisoft bring Red Steel to the Revolution launch lineup,” said Reggie Fils-Aime, executive vice president of sales and marketing at Nintendo of America. “Ubisoft makes some of the most innovative and critically acclaimed games in the industry and from what we have seen from Red Steel it is going to be a standout exclusive title on the Revolution.”

Ubisoft has a strong history of creating some of the industry’s top-selling video game franchises. To date, the Tom Clancy’s Splinter Cell® and Rayman® franchises have each sold more than 15 million units worldwide and the Prince of Persia® franchise alone has sold more than eight million units worldwide. The Red Steel brand will reflect this expertise and build upon Ubisoft’s past to invigorate the future experience allowed within the Revolution platform.

Ubisoft will disclose more specific information on Red Steel in the coming months and Nintendo will reveal more information about the Revolution and its unique controller at E3.

For more information about Ubisoft, please visit www.ubi.com.

trebor

04-12-2006, 08:20 AM

Red Steel is proof of what some of us have been saying all along - the Wandtroller is the gateway to having exclusive content for the Rev. Obviously, having as much exclusive content as possible can only help. I just hope that gamers who buy the Rev will reward the 3rd parties who make exclusive content and not just buy Nintendo games, like 99% of Gamecube owners did.

What's truly bizarre is that not only is Red Steel an exclusive title - it's an exclusive title from a 3rd party that was announced, with some screenshots, before any 1st party title. This has to be a first for a Nintendo system.

Gadfly2317

04-12-2006, 09:11 AM

DrunkenThumbmaster

04-12-2006, 01:37 PM

I thought everyone has seen the add ons to the Rev controller. Here's sure fire proof that Rev games does not have to be on rails. Enjoy.

Yeah I saw the the analogue mouse attachment I just wasn't sure if it came with the console or not. anyway this game does have me wanting a Revvy.

I still have some slight doubts as far as first person control I still think they will have to be simplified but as far as this Red Steel game and any implementation with Zelda or Starfox I think the controller will definitely shine with fight night (it'll probably tire you out) Hell even better than fight night and update to the Punch out series. Damn I'm getting hyped for Nintendo!

Mochan

04-12-2006, 05:00 PM

The whole "lackluster hardware" thing has been way overblown. The games are going to look good even if they are short a few of the effects the more powerful systems are offering.

The issue isn't going to be the looks... the issue will be the resolution. That kind of hardware is perfectly fine for running decent-looking games, but at 480i-class resolutions. And as I have said time and again, low resolution is a huge bummer for me. That said, I'm *still* playing my PS2 so a little low-res console gaming isn't gonna kill me.

And hey I am EXCITED over the prospects of this game. Wand to aim, wand to slash!!! Yeah!

Where's Mochan?

GL, I can't find the images on the blog for the Red Steel game.

Are you demanding my presence?

:p

Sorry been really busy for the past week trying to make time for Suikoden 5, Oblivion and also watching the latest anime. New season with Aria the Natural and School Rumble Second Sem! Oh yeah!!! And Disagea too. But the Disgaea anime sucks....

I think this stands a chance of making a FPS that's not boring to me. . .I'm sick of using thumbsticks, which has got to be the lamest way in the universe to try and simulate aiming and shooting.

Ditto. I pity the poor console sops who still use thumbsticks to aim and think they're actually playing!

I for one am hoping for a peripheral where the Rev controller will be attached to a rifle mockup, like a lightgun, but all the actions, ie walking, jumping, sidestepping, etc. will be controlled through the same peripheral to give the most intense FPS action game that can be experienced this coming next gen of consoles.

Yeah, holding the "controller" to aim is kind of lame. It needs to have an attachment to make it look at least like a decent light gun. And maybe we'll see a sword attachment later to get you in the mood for Gundam beam saber fights, hahaha!

And man, Bushido Blade with the Rev controller would be so SWEET.

I think a lot of you are jumping the gun about the rev's superiority in controlling FPS sure the aiming maybe more precise (Maybe!) but the character movement I still see as a problem. It seems to me that most games will have to be on rails I couldn't imagine playing halo with the wand!

Nunchuck.

Hmmm... does anyone care to turn that into a Chuck Norris joke?

Gadfly2317

04-12-2006, 05:23 PM

The issue isn't going to be the looks... the issue will be the resolution. That kind of hardware is perfectly fine for running decent-looking games, but at 480i-class resolutions. And as I have said time and again, low resolution is a huge bummer for me. That said, I'm *still* playing my PS2 so a little low-res console gaming isn't gonna kill me.

Even though the Rev isn't outputting 720p/1080i hi-def, won't it still support progressive scan at 420p?

Cuddly Knife

04-12-2006, 06:41 PM

mandark

04-12-2006, 07:10 PM

How will it work to be able to aim with the wantroller, and also slash? I'm guessing if you slash you'll have to hold a button(trigger) down?

Will the aiming be how it is in the Myst games, where you can point at an area, and then when you get near the edge of the screen, it will move to the left or right? I guess like how it is on Metroid Prime Hunters. If anything, this type of control is going to frustrate nongaming gamers more than a regular control scheme.

Chick Norris' tears cure cancer.
Hmmm, interesting observation. If you have played Hunters you will notice that when you incrementally point the stylus off center, Samus will also move incrementally. When you move the stylus to the farther edges the sharper the turns will be. I would have to assume that the movement for the Rev will be simulated similarly. All you have to do is move the Wand slightly or in a sweeping motion depending on how sharp you want to turn, just like a mouse on a PC. The thumbstick attachment will most likely simulate movement forward, backwards and sidestepping just like WASD or the DS pad.

As far as frustrating gamers, that is highly unlikely since the gamer is not using a stylus like on the DS where you have to worry about holding and stabilizing the DS at the same time. If anything this type of control may make the games easier since aiming will be much simpler. This is most likely why Ubisoft is incorporating gameplay mechanics like shooting guns off your enemies hands to get rewarded instead of outright killing them like most FPS games do. I mean, how else would you shoot the guns off their hands if the controller is not that easy to "control".

BTW, Myst games sucks major AZZes. How can you even compare nextgen games to that steaming pile of crap.

Cuddly Knife

04-12-2006, 07:24 PM

mandark

04-12-2006, 09:21 PM

Well for one, Myst games are true adventure games, they can't be compared to anything, exceot other adventure games of the same nature. For two, I was just talking about the way the conrtol and screen movement is.
Regardless, I'm stoked how this new control scheme will work out for Nintendo. This is complete 3D control. Hopefully Ubisoft will succeed with this title of theirs and show other developers how innovative the Rev controller can really be.

GameLegend

04-13-2006, 04:40 AM

GL, I can't find the images on the blog for the Red Steel game.

Okay dokes
That site includes all the important pics from the magazine.
http://www.gameshout.com/news/nintendo_revolution_red_steel_release_for_revoluti on_console/article4745.htm

Cuddly Knife

04-13-2006, 10:48 AM

If those are gameplay shots, then I'm really impressed, especially for a system that supposed to pale in comparison to the 360 and PS3, according to some here. Is there any video of this game in action? I still have my reservations about the control.

Gadfly2317

04-13-2006, 03:44 PM

Check out what Ubisoft's CEO has to say about the Revolution. It's one thing for a company to speak glowingly of their own products, but this is more over the top than anything Nintendo has said about the Revolution:

http://www.nintendojo.com/infocus/view_item.php?1144967786

Ubisoft CEO Talks Revolution
4/13/2006, 6:36pm Eastern Time

Ubisoft's new first-person shooter / slasher Red Steel has kept Nintendo in the headlines. The Ubisoft love continues, as the new CEO of their Montreal studio says Nintendo's Revolution is "magical."

"I can say definitely, as any other developer, we are looking at this magical platform, and we want to be part of the adventure," Ubisoft Montreal CEO Yannis Mallat told Gamasutra. "You know already that Red Steel is made public in Game Informer. That's an exclusive Ubisoft title, made in Ubisoft Paris. And I'm pretty sure we'll see other Revolution games from Ubisoft. And some of them, I'm sure, will be made from Montreal."

Fivespot

04-13-2006, 04:00 PM

Received the newest Game Informer in today's mail and it has an exclusive hands-on Revolution article in addition to a large feature about Red Steel.

Something I noticed in the article that I haven't seen mentioned here; not only does the on-screen gun move when you move (as you'd expect) but you can also perform twisting of the wrist as well.

For example, you can hold a gun normal or twist your wrist to the left and hold the gun with it's butt facing outward (if you can picture what I'm describing). A nice touch graphically.

The cord looks much longer than pictured previously in this thread.

Read an interesting tidbit in the article about game speed with this controller. In most console FPS games, it takes roughly three seconds to turn completely around, while in PC games it takes about one-quarter second. In Red Steel, it takes about one second.

The more precise control enables developers to program smarter enemy AI. They will run for cover or maybe attack while you're reloading. Apparently they focus more on risk management. Due to the controller, having Red Steel's enemy AI act like a normal console game would make the game far too easy. The benchmark for this enemy AI is the PC version of F.E.A.R. according to an Ubisoft rep. quoted in the article.

I could go on and on but I don't want to spoil the entire article for you.

Mochan

04-14-2006, 03:55 PM

Those graphics look sweet! The only real problem now is the resolution, again I am used to playing at twice the resolution so it's always a downer, but hey like I said I still play PS2 and XBox games so I'll live.

I'm willing to put up with that if I can get some really good gameplay for it.

For example, you can hold a gun normal or twist your wrist to the left and hold the gun with it's butt facing outward (if you can picture what I'm describing). A nice touch graphically.

Pretty cool, although that won't do much for us if we don't have a gun attachment to hold the controller realistically (you hold guns that way because it's more natural to your body shape than holding them upright) but at least it should look cool in game.

Due to the controller, having Red Steel's enemy AI act like a normal console game would make the game far too easy.

Didn't COD2 have some decent AI? Or was the AI in COD2 dumbed down for the 360 version? What makes the difference is more the auto-aim bot enabled than anything their behavior does, methinks.

Then again, AI in other console FPS by all accounts got dumbed down, such as Far Cry.

mandark

04-14-2006, 05:39 PM

Then again, AI in other console FPS by all accounts got dumbed down, such as Far Cry.
Shhhhhhh! Don't let teh Xbots hear you. You don't mean to say that. Xbox games are the best and it takes a lot skill to play FPS games, no matter how unnatural, with dual analog sticks. 360 games will beat anything Ninty can accomodate with its "weak ass" Revolution. Right Waco? :rolleyes:

Gadfly2317

04-17-2006, 10:03 AM

I still have my reservations about the control.

A lot of people have concern about control in this game, and the controller in general.

I don't really, and here's why: If the rev controller does not work well and does not improve the experience and fun of the game, it will be a fatal failure. We would just walk away from Nintendo, shaking our heads, and going, "damn, it woulda been nice if that idea had panned out." It would be the end of Nintendo as a console maker, end of story.

And I think this company knows fun and plays around with their stuff extensively with fun in mind. If they weren't having fun with it, they'd have never gone forward. And it kinda reiniforces the decision when you here talk from the guys at retro, ubisoft, independent developers, guys like Suta51 and Grasshopper studios. . . all praising the innovation and what it can do for creative design. . . I mean the Ubisoft CEO called it "magical." That might be an over enthused statement, but it leads me to believe we can expect a lot.

I have no loyalty though . I do expect a lot of this new "low-rez but hi-tech control trade-off" thing, and if it sucks, adios Revolution.

DrunkenThumbmaster

04-17-2006, 11:34 AM

A lot of people have concern about control in this game, and the controller in general.

I don't really, and here's why: If the rev controller does not work well and does not improve the experience and fun of the game, it will be a fatal failure. We would just walk away from Nintendo, shaking our heads, and going, "damn, it woulda been nice if that idea had panned out." It would be the end of Nintendo as a console maker, end of story.

And I think this company knows fun and plays around with their stuff extensively with fun in mind. If they weren't having fun with it, they'd have never gone forward. And it kinda reiniforces the decision when you here talk from the guys at retro, ubisoft, independent developers, guys like Suta51 and Grasshopper studios. . . all praising the innovation and what it can do for creative design. . . I mean the Ubisoft CEO called it "magical." That might be an over enthused statement, but it leads me to believe we can expect a lot.

I have no loyalty though . I do expect a lot of this new "low-rez but hi-tech control trade-off" thing, and if it sucks, adios Revolution.

The problem is fun is so subjective. I bet somebody there at Nintendo thought the Virtual Boy was fun, or the Power arm thing. hell I bet they even thought the end of wind waker was fun.

I just hope the thing is functionable because I can't imagine having to keep swinging my arm because the sensors didn't register my movement.

Pandarbock

04-17-2006, 05:07 PM

hell I bet they even thought the end of wind waker was fun.

Have you in fact beat Windwaker? I thought the final blow and ending was quite good myself. I don't really see how the ending of any game is fun though (good or bad maybe) so I don't quite get what you are saying.

mandark

04-17-2006, 10:47 PM

The problem is fun is so subjective. I bet somebody there at Nintendo thought the Virtual Boy was fun, or the Power arm thing. hell I bet they even thought the end of wind waker was fun.

I just hope the thing is functionable because I can't imagine having to keep swinging my arm because the sensors didn't register my movement.
You are absolutely right, except for your WindWaker opinion. Fun is very subjective. I'm pretty sure MS has a competely different version of fun compared to Nintendo. For example MS finds it fun that you have to keep installing patches and security updates to their "final" version of every Windows OS they have released. MS finds it fun to give you a hard drive and then take it away. MS finds it fun to charge $60 for a game you can get for less on any other platform especially the PC. MS finds it fun to have a non-standardized console in teh 360. Lastly most Xbox gamers find it more FUN to use dual analog sticks to get "precise" control on FPS games and rely heavily on autoaiming and having dumbed down AI, ala FarCry for the Box.

BTW, have you heard that there will be about 4 to 6 different versions of the new VISTA OS from MS. Now, thats what I call fun.......cracking all of them.

Cuddly Knife

04-17-2006, 10:57 PM

MS finds it fun to charge $60 for a game you can get for less on any other platform especially the PC.
Actually, MS charges $50.00 for their games, compared to $60.00 for 3rd party devs.

MS finds it fun to have a non-standardized console in teh 360.
I believe the only console next gen that will be one thing only will be the Revolution, and even then we're still not sure. PS3 is following the same pattern that the 360 is.

mandark

04-17-2006, 11:37 PM

I believe the only console next gen that will be one thing only will be the Revolution, and even then we're still not sure. PS3 is following the same pattern that the 360 is.
True, but I was comparing between Nintendo and MS only. I don't think I mentioned Sony anywhere in my previous post.

As far Sony is concerned, correct me if I'm wrong, but I read somewhere that the HDD will be standardized. The only difference will be the size. If that truly is the case then that would still be standardized hardware for the PS3. Developers need not worry about coding their programs for HDD and non-HDD consoles unlike the 360. IF only MS has done the same thing I don't think we would even be discussing this as a fault for the 360.

Found the link regarding the HDD. http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3148775 - look under Updated 11:21 PST. Of course all of these will have to be confirmed at the upcoming E3.

Gadfly2317

04-18-2006, 06:21 AM

ThaMaskedGamer

04-18-2006, 07:20 AM

You are absolutely right, except for your WindWaker opinion. Fun is very subjective. I'm pretty sure MS has a competely different version of fun compared to Nintendo. For example MS finds it fun that you have to keep installing patches and security updates to their "final" version of every Windows OS they have released. MS finds it fun to give you a hard drive and then take it away. MS finds it fun to charge $60 for a game you can get for less on any other platform especially the PC. MS finds it fun to have a non-standardized console in teh 360. Lastly most Xbox gamers find it more FUN to use dual analog sticks to get "precise" control on FPS games and rely heavily on autoaiming and having dumbed down AI, ala FarCry for the Box.

BTW, have you heard that there will be about 4 to 6 different versions of the new VISTA OS from MS. Now, thats what I call fun.......cracking all of them.

It isn't MS that is charging $60 for games, their games are still $49 bucks. Its the EAs and the others who are doing that. So once again there you go making stuff up. Next, as someone said before, Windows is so complicated precisely because it has to support every device under the sun and run software from the DOS days, if MS started from scratch with an OS(something i'd like them to do) and said no more support for legacy software and devices, then people like you would scream that their new OS wasn't b/c, just like you guys do with the 360. Ditto with the HDD, last gen you guys complained the XBOX had a HDD, now you are complaining because a low-end 360 doesn't have one. Dual sticks have been used on PS2 and in gaming for a while, but all of a sudden Nintendo does a wand and its MS' fault the whole industry has been using dual analog sticks, sheesh you guys just never stop. He has the nerve to talk about dumbed down AI, have you seen PS2 games? Gran Tourismo is the pinnacle of dumb AI!

You guys all need to get a grip. When Splinter Cell first came out for the XBOX, yes before it came to the PC, you guys were cracking on it, despite the fact it had new gameplay, animation, and great graphics, it was new and it came from Ubisoft. Now Ubisoft announces a shooter that will use this wand and you guys are creaming your pants. We haven't seen any video or the game in motion and already you guys are saying how great it is. You see attitude has a big influence on perception, your guys think the wand controller will be great and anything that uses it, and now all of a sudden dual joysticks suck. But you guys forget this is just a diddly poo fanboy website, the rest of the world has no problems with dual joysticks, dual joysticks are not going anywhere. The wand controller may be good or may not be good, your collective attitude is excitement and enthusiasm, nothing wrong with that, but in reality the rest of the world will wait and see if it lives up to the hype before bestowing upon it greatness. Kinda funny how things work on the one hand you have a bunch of guys who hated everything about XBOX, an now they are pimping all the XBOX-esque features of the PS3, and on the other hand a bunch of guys who railed against FPS and Ubisoft games who are now ready to throw down the gauntlet for a Ubisoft shooter without even playing or seeing a demo. I realize this is system wars, but pardon me if I don't hold my breath, pardon me if I wait for actual proof.
This is almost worst as the PS3 guys pimping Unreal Tournament! A prime example of a mindless FPS with no story and only good for online fragging, it comes to the PS3 and whammo its gonna be GREAT, I CAN'T WAIT!!! You guys have to see the pure hypocrisy of it all, you guys have no shame for it either that's what is worse. The Revy fans are going to say, but wait a minute, this is an ok FPS because we have a wand, please it is still a FPS, as if a wand now makes it OOOOOK to enjoy fps and dual sticks made them EVIL, you guys are sad. This is all about one thing, a bunch of you guys still have it in for MS, and you like a lot of things about the XBOX franchise, as long as it is on Playstation or Nintendo products.

Also, can someone explain to me how some guys can complain about 360 graphics and power and then jump all on the revolution bandwagon? Guys can complain about 360 lack of HD movies, and Revy can't even play DVDs? Guys complain about the HDD issue on 360 and Revy doesn't have one. I'm not buying the guys who complain about one thing on one console then support another console that doesn't have any of that, and then they say well its Nintendo they get a pass. Yeah the whole GC lifespan was a pass and a controller is going to save Revy? The controller is COULD be one step forward, but just about everything else on the Revy is two steps back compared to the competition.

You guys can piss on 360 all you want but in the end games are all that's gonna matter, let's see how many good games PS3 and Revy get and how fast they get them, let's see how their online infrastructure works when gaming online. Its easy to talk down the 360 and LIVE, it'll but a lot harder to improve on them in actuality.

So sorry to interrupt with a dose of reality go back to dreamland until the fall, when a bunch of dreamers will be crushed by reality. Oh no that will happen 6 months after launch when there is nothing to play.

ThaMaskedGamer

04-18-2006, 07:29 AM

The more precise control enables developers to program smarter enemy AI. They will run for cover or maybe attack while you're reloading. Apparently they focus more on risk management. Due to the controller, having Red Steel's enemy AI act like a normal console game would make the game far too easy. The benchmark for this enemy AI is the PC version of F.E.A.R. according to an Ubisoft rep. quoted in the article.

I could go on and on but I don't want to spoil the entire article for you.

Can you explain, because I don't have nor will be getting the article. I don't see how this is a big deal, maybe i'm missing the point. Because already in shooters the enemy takes cover and will shoot you while you are re-loading, this has been done for a while on the PC and XBOX and certainly on the 360. Maybe it'll be new to the Nintendo world.

Glockstar

04-18-2006, 10:03 AM

True, but I was comparing between Nintendo and MS only. I don't think I mentioned Sony anywhere in my previous post.

This is a thread about a Revolution exclusive game (Red Steel) and the Revolutions' wand-troller, you're the one that's gone off-topic, ya effin jerk. I don't think anyone mentioned anything about MS anywhere, until you showed up.

But now, since you started it...
I'm pretty sure Nintendo has a competely different version of fun compared to say... fair, sensible, and consumer friendly companies. For example: Nintendo finds it fun to sucker people into buying a slightly revised "new" system every couple of years. Like with the GBA and the -SP, and now the DS and DS Lite. There aren't any new added features - the DS Lite doesn't do anything more than the original DS does - it's merely an update to correct faults with the original. Nintendo finds it fun to release their old games over and over and over and over again - and never in a consumer-friendly compilation (like most companies do) - always individually - and always at full price. Nintendo finds it fun to go against popular trends. Gamers grow up, they mature and their tastes become more sophisticated - but Nintendo doesn't want to recognize this, they still think videogames are just for kids - and dummies. Online gaming and multi-functional home appliances were up and coming a few years ago, but at the time Nintendo didn't want anything to do with it. Now HDTV is clearly the way to go; but, again, Nintendo doesn't want to be a part of it.

mandark

04-18-2006, 05:46 PM

-snip- the unimportant blah, blah, blah because you are not reading everything else above.
If you notice, read, or whatever it is that you have to do, right before my post was Drunk talking about how subjective fun is and then drill into Nintendo's past mishaps. Ergo my rebuttal regarding MS's interpretation of fun. Learn to read, comprehend, and research then get back to me.

mandark

04-18-2006, 05:51 PM

Gamers grow up, they mature and their tastes become more sophisticated - but Nintendo doesn't want to recognize this, they still think videogames are just for kids - and dummies.

And yet Red Steel is considered violent and adult themed. What were you smoking again?

mandark

04-18-2006, 05:56 PM

Fivespot

04-18-2006, 06:12 PM

Can you explain, because I don't have nor will be getting the article. I don't see how this is a big deal, maybe i'm missing the point. Because already in shooters the enemy takes cover and will shoot you while you are re-loading, this has been done for a while on the PC and XBOX and certainly on the 360. Maybe it'll be new to the Nintendo world.

I will quote the article here to further expand on the enemy AI dealio. Once again this is from Game Informer issue 157

"The faster reaction speed that the player has with the Revolution controller allows for not only more complex combat situations, but better enemy AI as well. 'The AI characters will care for themselves,' Campos Oriola explained. 'They will go for cover, attack when you are reloading, that sort of thing. They focus on risk management.' You won't see enemies waiting behind cover points waiting to be shot in Red Steel. They will come after you, and they'll be quite aggressive about it. They won't walk around a table to come after you, they'll simply jump over it. They will create cover points of their own and coordinate their attacks. The benchmark for their intelligence and aggressiveness, says Campos Oriola, is the PC title F.E.A.R., which was widely praised for it's artificial intelligence. Thanks to the controller, doing anything less with the AI would make Red Steel far too easy."

I'm sure the 360 and PS3 will also have great enemy AI, but that's not the point. The point of everyone's excitement is the entire package (all these elements combined).

In my opinion, Ubisoft may be taking on a little much here. Might this be too visionary for a launch title? It will be amazing if they simply get the controls down and tight while not considering all the other goodies they want included.

Supposedly a couple more Revolution games will be revealed before E3. So more news like this may be forthcoming (according to 1up).

I'm still excited to play something like this. It sounds like a welcome change even if I am enjoying the hell out of my 360. Back in the day while playing in the old school arcades, I always thought the most fun games were the racing games with the actual moving car, or skiing game while standing and moving on skis, motorcycle game while sitting on a Harley, etc.... This reminds me of that a bit but to a lesser extent. Not a replacement for the dual stick FPS, but a complement. It's Nintendo's whole philosophy this next gen: Attract non-gamers with an easy to use, non-threatening remote control type controller while providing hardcore gamers with a nice "second" system. And the Nintendo hardcore of course may just play a Rev while sticking away from the other two.

Glockstar

04-18-2006, 10:26 PM

And yet Red Steel is considered violent and adult themed. What were you smoking again?

It's an Ubisoft game!!!

Publisher: Ubisoft
Developer: Ubisoft Paris
Platform: Nintendo Revolution
Genre: 1st-person shooter
Release date: November 2006

Dadgum you kitties are so friggin stupid.

Renzatic Gear

04-18-2006, 10:41 PM

So's Splinter Cell....I don't get it.

mandark

04-18-2006, 10:56 PM

So's Splinter Cell....I don't get it.
I don't get it either. Glocky has been smoking too much of what he is selling.

Mochan

04-18-2006, 11:13 PM

In my opinion, Ubisoft may be taking on a little much here. Might this be too visionary for a launch title? It will be amazing if they simply get the controls down and tight while not considering all the other goodies they want included.

I don't think so. The other features mentioned so far are pretty standard for PC FPS, with the exception of the mercy feature. Which should be easy enough to incorporate. I don't think they're biting off more than they can chew, unlike Bethesda. And maybe the Stalker Devs (forgot their name, global something).

It's an Ubisoft game!!!

What's that supposed to mean? Ubisoft games aren't limited to Rayman.

ThaMaskedGamer

04-19-2006, 07:00 AM

LOFL. PC yes. Xbox and 360=keep dreaming. FarCry's AI was extremely dumbed down to allow the gamer to survive the whole ordeal. Like somebody here has foreseen, you Bots will never admit how rediculous and artificially difficult dual analog is for FPS shooters. For you to not understand the importance of speed and accuracy that the Rev controller offers is beyond rediculous.

I haven't played FarCry so I am not defending FarCry, but there are plenty of and have been plenty of FPS on the XBOX and now on 360 where the enemy takes cover and shoots at you while you reload, I mean its not a terribly difficult standard. BIA did way more than that, and now in GRAW the enemy not only takes cover but they lay in the prone position and crawl to cover, they take cover behind cars etc, ditto with Call of Duty 2. I'm failing to see this advanced AI. Condemned had excellent AI, the enemy would run to the shadows and take cover in dark places around corners, even pick up better weapons from the ground. So you are just highly uninformed. And shooting at you while you reload is just not even something to boast about, that is basic in shooters, even arcade shooters.

And you are right and wrong. First you are right, I will never admit that dual analog sticks are difficult, because they aren't difficult they are easy. Dual analog sticks are bad for FPS, well then what are they good for? Nothing? I mean if they aren't good for FPS, then they must not be good for 3rd person shooters, or platform games, or anything.

You may be right about the wand controller, but how am I supposed to know, am I supposed to go by your word, or should I wait until I can use it to see if it changes gaming? Sorry if I don't believe the hype and choose to wait until I can at least read a real review or try it in a store before I believe some silly looking remote control is the future of gaming and shooters, especially from a company that has no history to indicate it knows anything about shooters. So sorry if i'm skeptical.

And you guys take so much from the CEO of Ubisoft's comments, but where are his actions. The bread and butter of Ubisoft is Ghost Recon, Splinter Cell, and Rainbow6, and now Farcry everybody knows this, so where are the Revolution versions of these games? Listen, GRAW shipped over 260,000 units on a 360 platform that was scarcely available. That was the largest first week sales of any game in Ubisoft's history and the game WAS not on the PC! Now you are telling us the world has a problem with dual analog sticks, last generation Halo received critical acclaim for its use of Dual analog sticks and we go from critical acclaim to now it is a huge drastic problem, why because Nintendo ANNOUNCES a wand!? GRAW will be on the PC as well as 360, but not Revy, so where is ubisoft's support? Rainbow6 Las Vegas will be on PS3, PC, as well as 360, but not Revy, so where is Ubisoft's support? Splinter Cell 4 will be on PS3, PC as well as 360, but not Revy so where is Ubisoft's support? Ubisoft is doing what any company should do, pimping their product for Revy, saying it is great, but how come they are NOT backing up those comments with their major money franchises? And where are the rest of the FPS on Revy?

The wand maybe a good idea, but the Revy may not be a good idea. And with USB support and tremendous middleware guru's 360 and possibly PS3 could come up with a similar type of gun controller if the wand does turn out to be a good idea. But unfortunately I think the wand could be cool, but it is just not going to get the support on the Revy, because do you realize how limited and watered down FPS would have to be to support that platform? GRAW can't be done on the Revy, so you can be damn sure R6 and Splinter Cell can't, as well as BIA3, and all these badazz FPS coming down the pike, you won't see Revy versions. And I seriously doubt this Revy FPS is going to hold a candle to those games, as well as the monster games such as Halo3 etc.

Oh and hmm GRAW is still at the top of the charts, COD2 is approaching a million sales nobody but you and the bias fanboys on this site have a problem with dual sticks, and I'll bet you won't have a problem with them with the PS3's fps, but boy you guys seem to have a problem with XBOX fps.

ThaMaskedGamer

04-19-2006, 07:16 AM

I will quote the article here to further expand on the enemy AI dealio. Once again this is from Game Informer issue 157

"The faster reaction speed that the player has with the Revolution controller allows for not only more complex combat situations, but better enemy AI as well. 'The AI characters will care for themselves,' Campos Oriola explained. 'They will go for cover, attack when you are reloading, that sort of thing. They focus on risk management.' You won't see enemies waiting behind cover points waiting to be shot in Red Steel. They will come after you, and they'll be quite aggressive about it. They won't walk around a table to come after you, they'll simply jump over it. They will create cover points of their own and coordinate their attacks. The benchmark for their intelligence and aggressiveness, says Campos Oriola, is the PC title F.E.A.R., which was widely praised for it's artificial intelligence. Thanks to the controller, doing anything less with the AI would make Red Steel far too easy."

I'm sure the 360 and PS3 will also have great enemy AI, but that's not the point. The point of everyone's excitement is the entire package (all these elements combined).

In my opinion, Ubisoft may be taking on a little much here. Might this be too visionary for a launch title? It will be amazing if they simply get the controls down and tight while not considering all the other goodies they want included.

Supposedly a couple more Revolution games will be revealed before E3. So more news like this may be forthcoming (according to 1up).

I'm still excited to play something like this. It sounds like a welcome change even if I am enjoying the hell out of my 360. Back in the day while playing in the old school arcades, I always thought the most fun games were the racing games with the actual moving car, or skiing game while standing and moving on skis, motorcycle game while sitting on a Harley, etc.... This reminds me of that a bit but to a lesser extent. Not a replacement for the dual stick FPS, but a complement. It's Nintendo's whole philosophy this next gen: Attract non-gamers with an easy to use, non-threatening remote control type controller while providing hardcore gamers with a nice "second" system. And the Nintendo hardcore of course may just play a Rev while sticking away from the other two.

This may be good for Rev, again a lot remains to be seen, my stance with Revolution given GC's past is they have to prove it to me before I believe it. And as i said before if Ubisoft really thinks this highly of Rev, then why are there no planned versions of GRAW, Rainbow, Splinter Cell, BIA, Far Cry? The 360, PC, and PS3 are all getting those games and those franchises are the key money makers for ubisoft. GRAW shipped more in one for Ubisoft than any other game in its history across any platform including PS2. So it would seem that if Ubisoft really feels this is going to be the future they would be putting their major projects out there on the forefront.

My other point is I see u online from time to time, the next time I see u, just for 15 minutes pop in GRAW and join an online game with me, a perfect example of what they are describing can be seen in the online campaign Old Bridge. Enemies agressively come after you, they will split up so that a few will take a direct route and few others will go the long way around a building to squeeze you. If you shoot at them, they immediately drop and look for cover(which if it is a vehicle u can blow up), they cautiously approach corners even crawling in the prone position. They throw smoke grenades at you and rush you. And out of nowhere vehicles will come and gun you down. And the game doesn't care whether you are reloading or not! But the thing that is great about all of this is it is done in a highly detailed environment online with up to 16 guys, if you want, with no sacrifice in power and in HD. Even if Revy get's the AI down and control, everything else is lost because of the lack of power on the system.

I understand you said you are excited about both the 360 and you would be happy to play the Revy as well, and that is a valid stance, a logical stance, even reasonable. But all of this "changing shooters" and "taking over FPS'"" bragging and dual analog sticks are dead" crap is just fanboy reactionary stuff that has not a shred of validity(i know u didn't say this stuff). First of all even if the Revy was capable of such feats(which it is not, it is not geared to take over FPS') the industry is not behind it! If the wand is great, then all you have here is an idea that Sony and MS will eventually incorporate into 360 and PS3. If the wand is just okay and kinda gimmicky you will have just another excuse for the Nintendo loyal to try and tell us how innovative the Revy is, as it dies like the GC. The real problem for Nintendo, as evidence by the lack of real support despite the glowing comments, is lack of power, lack of HD support that's why it can't be a serious contender in the shooter genres, not to mention at this point lack of online infrastructure.

Gadfly2317

04-19-2006, 07:28 AM

I believe some silly looking remote control is the future of gaming and shooters, especially from a company that has no history to indicate it knows anything about shooters. So sorry if i'm skeptical.
Are you talking about the company that brought us Golden Eye, Perfect Dark, and Metroid?

Yeah, and I know "Rare" worked on GE, but we've seen what's happened to them without Nintendo around to hold their hands.

Renzatic Gear

04-19-2006, 07:45 AM

And you guys take so much from the CEO of Ubisoft's comments, but where are his actions. The bread and butter of Ubisoft is Ghost Recon, Splinter Cell, and Rainbow6, and now Farcry everybody knows this, so where are the Revolution versions of these games? Listen, GRAW shipped over 260,000 units on a 360 platform that was scarcely available. That was the largest first week sales of any game in Ubisoft's history and the game WAS not on the PC! Now you are telling us the world has a problem with dual analog sticks, last generation Halo received critical acclaim for its use of Dual analog sticks and we go from critical acclaim to now it is a huge drastic problem, why because Nintendo ANNOUNCES a wand!? GRAW will be on the PC as well as 360, but not Revy, so where is ubisoft's support? Rainbow6 Las Vegas will be on PS3, PC, as well as 360, but not Revy, so where is Ubisoft's support? Splinter Cell 4 will be on PS3, PC as well as 360, but not Revy so where is Ubisoft's support? Ubisoft is doing what any company should do, pimping their product for Revy, saying it is great, but how come they are NOT backing up those comments with their major money franchises? And where are the rest of the FPS on Revy?

Ubisoft takes the time to make an exclusive game for the Revolution, and you turn around and think they're just paying lip service to the console cuz it isn't getting the same one-size-fits-all ports the other consoles are?

The company wanted to try something a little different with the Rev, and release a new game that couldn't be done elsewhere. That's the strength of the system, Masked, and the reason why more than a few people are fairly stoked about it. No one wants the Revolution to play games like Ghost Recon or Farcry, they've got the PS3, PC, or Xbox360 for that, they want the Revolution for something else entirely.

That's not to say the Revolution won't get it's share of ports, but that's not what the system is about. It's supposed to sit alongside the PS3 and 360 and offer it's own games, not compete with them by giving us the exact same games we can get elsewhere already.

And it's pretty well known that dual analog sticks are crap for 1st person games. Enemy AI placement has had to been gimped to compensate for the slow turning and aiming radius you get with the sticks..that's been well known for awhile. You can deny it all you want and claim it's more realistic cuz the Xbox's shoulder buttons feel more like a gun trigger, but it's pretty much the god-awful truth.

Gadfly2317

04-19-2006, 07:49 AM

dual analog sticks are dead" crap is just fanboy reactionary stuff that has not a shred of validity(i know u didn't say this stuff).

No one ever said dual analogs were dead. . .they're very much alive and in place on the Xbox and Ps3, and even on the Revolution's shell-controller.

What we have said is that dual analog sticks are the old-fashioned way of gaming for old-fashioned game designs. NEW stuff will be played in a new way with the Wand, and OLD stuff will be played in new ways with the Wand. Be skeptical, but be prepared to acknowledge when it happens.

What is demonstrably true about dual analog sticks has nothing to do with whether you are satisifed with the experience and think they are great for FPS. What is demonstrably true is that they are the slowest method of moving and aiming, positively sluggish compated to Keyboard and Mouse. BUT WAIT WAIT WAIT I hear you say, "I don't want to play on a PC or use a keyboard." I AGREE! But every indication--unless we're being flat out lied to like what Sony does--is that the wand allows aiming/cursor movement to respond significantly faster than thumbsticks, and not just faster, but in a different way, allowing you for instance to twist controller sideways, or perhaps even make a small-jab motion to hit someone close with your gun, thus seemlessly integrating shooting and melee moves. Are you starting to grasp what full 3-d spatial motion control in the Wand means?

You talk resolution and graphics as why FPS will never take off on the Rev. That could happen, but it would be really stupid. I'm sure you've used a real gun before, so bear with me. Shooting is visceral, tactile act. And aiming and shooting is about fluidity and precision. I want my in game control to be more like that. Wiggling a couple sticks in your lap just seems lame. So take a multiplat shooter. . . .hell, lets just pretend for the sake of arguing that Halo was just released on all three consoles. All three versions will look remarkable, but yes, the Rev will have fewer effects and will not support HD. But--IF the Rev version were more fun to play, more fluid and naturally with highspeed precision aiming, wouldn't you prefer that?

Be skeptical. . .that's always a wise route. Maybe the control won't be fun or work as well as the glowing praise would indicate. And yes, who wouldn't want the rev to ALSO be the most graphically powerful machine in the universe. But guess what, it's not. Nintendo spent its R&D dollars developing a whole new way to play, not just increasing horsepower. If you are a gamer, you should be chearing it works, and if you are a FPS fan, you should be hoping it works and want to support FPS games there. Because you know, if it does turn out to be a revolutionary control, it would be a shame if it weren't widely adopted.

Once we played with a big joystick and a red button. But then came the d-pad, then the analog stick (thanks again Nintendo), and now, finally, hopefully a new paradigm. It's long overdue (we've had the analogue sticks a decade now), and every major evolution in our controllers has improved current gameplay and opened up entirely new gameplay avenues. Please tell me you do understand this, and think this is a GOOD thing. Right??? It's not ONLY about realtime contextual high-def sweat on Shaquile's head to gamers these days is it???

Gadfly2317

04-19-2006, 08:02 AM

One more thought here that popped into my head, and maybe it's just the weed, and maybe it needs its own thread, but. . .

The wand could pretty much look like anything, right? I mean, it just has to have the stuff inside that allows for the censor to place it's location in 3-d space, and have a couple buttons on it somewhere. There's no reason the TV remote-like Wand could be a gun, or sword shape. And Nintendo's already talked about peripherals. Do you think we'll see a lot of peripherals and alternate versions of the wand itself? It seems like another great revenue stream.

Cuddly Knife

04-19-2006, 09:16 AM

I was just thinking of that, Gad. What if they made"shells" that looked like different real-world objects like guns, mini-swords, a paint roller, comb, or anything else that can be handled with one hand. Nobody wants to hold a chainsaw-shaped controller to play RE4, but people would if they were able to swing the chansaw on the game and hack up some heads and any other avaliable limbs.

They should make a serious operation-type game for this thing. Like the one on the DS, only insanely realistic. The wantroller is a perfect precise operating-type looking tool.

And haters, if anything, Glock needs to smoke more chron. It wouldn't hurt for you to smoke a little, yourselves.

Glockstar

04-19-2006, 09:19 AM

So's Splinter Cell....I don't get it.

I don't get it either. Glocky has been smoking too much of what he is selling.

What's that supposed to mean? Ubisoft games aren't limited to Rayman.

Wow. #@$%ing retards.

Pay attention *bleep*heads.

A Splinter Cell game released on the Xbox is still a game published and developed by Ubisoft, yes? A Rayman game released on the PS2 is still a game published and developed by Ubisoft, yes? But a Red Steel game published and developed by Ubisoft for a Nintendo system is no longer a Ubisoft game, it's a Nintendo game?! Wake the #@$% up.

Glockstar

04-19-2006, 09:32 AM

The wand could pretty much look like anything, right? I mean, it just has to have the stuff inside that allows for the censor to place it's location in 3-d space, and have a couple buttons on it somewhere. There's no reason the TV remote-like Wand could be a gun, or sword shape.

I was just thinking of that very same thing last night when I was reading the article.

Now that would be an interesting development. But even then...

I'm not a fan of this wand-troller thing at all. And that's not hating, that's just me seeing issues with it - just as I did, and was right about, with the DS. Issues with wrists; fatigue; and play space - just to name a few.

I also don't see this thing being the revolution you kitties are hoping it will be, or that GI purports. I've been meaning to add my two cents... but not now, not today anyway. I have no confidence in you peoples reading comprehension skills (putting to put it nicely) right now.

Gadfly2317

04-19-2006, 10:32 AM

I'm not a fan of this wand-troller thing at all. And that's not hating, that's just me seeing issues with it - just as I did, and was right about, with the DS. Issues with wrists; fatigue; and play space - just to name a few.
.

Your personal problems having weak, limp-wristed fumble-fingers aside, the DS has lived up to its every pre-release promise: to deliver new ways to game and interact, to deliver free,widespread online gaming, and to appeal to the hardcare, to the fans, and also draw in those who previously didn't play electronic games. I remember all your rabid anti-DS predictions, and you were WRONG.

It just sold 7:1 over the PsP in Japan last week. And when the Lite lands in the US, maybe even a spaghetti-armed girl like you will be able to hold it up long enough to "train your brain in minutes a day." Then maybe you'll have the mental clarity to post whatever it was that you think we're too stupid to understand.

Glockstar

04-19-2006, 11:47 AM

Your personal problems having weak, limp-wristed fumble-fingers aside, the DS has lived up to its every pre-release promise: to deliver new ways to game and interact, to deliver free,widespread online gaming, and to appeal to the hardcare, to the fans, and also draw in those who previously didn't play electronic games. I remember all your rabid anti-DS predictions, and you were WRONG.

It just sold 7:1 over the PsP in Japan last week. And when the Lite lands in the US, maybe even a spaghetti-armed girl like you will be able to hold it up long enough to "train your brain in minutes a day." Then maybe you'll have the mental clarity to post whatever it was that you think we're too stupid to understand.

Oh I don't think, I know. Your post here just confirmed it.

First of all, spare me your desperate sales pitch, pinko.

Second of all, I never predicted jack about DS sales, nor was I ever anti-DS. (Anti-Nintendo yes, but that's different - and beside the point.) You're thinking of someone else. (See what pot does your brain?) All of my negativity towards the DS had to do with the types of games that Nintendo would release for it - kittie and Mario bs - on which I was right; and had to do with questions and concerns on the physical handling of the thing - as in, how to hold it - on which case my doubts were also realized.

I had wondered how it would work when you were supposed to hold the thing up in one hand, while pressing down on it with your other. I had wondered where the grip would be. Where the stability and comfort would be. It turned out that for a lot of games that it wasn't an issue, as the touch screen is hardly used at all - or in some cases it's an option that can be eschewed entirely - and that if you were just using the d-pad and face buttons than it was no different than a GBA - in which case the DS turned out to be gimmick after all - just as I said! But on the few games where the touch-screen does have to be used, I was right about finding a comfortable position. It turned out that I was playing it sitting right here at the table. Right here, where my laptop is. The gaming laptop that I don't play games on because it's not a comfortable setup for me. I prefer a comfy chair or couch. (And a big screen tv.) And if I'm going to sit here in front of my computer and play games it's sure as hell not going to be some dumbed down version of Age of Empires, I might as well play the real thing, you know?! Eff Advanced Wars or Rub Rabbits - I should be playing Homeworld or Myst!

Ah, eff it...

It's the same thing with this wand-troller. Every console game pad of the past and present is held with two hands, with actions performed by thumbs and fingers. There's never been a problem with that setup before! Why? Comfort. Support. Simplicity. Comfort: hands and controller resting in your lap. Support; being gripped with two hands simultaneously means stabililty; pressing down on buttons and twiddling thumb-sticks isn't going to move the controller itself (unless you consciously - or unconsciously - move it). Simplicity: what's so friggin hard about pressing buttons and twiddling thumbsticks?! With this wand-troller, Nintendo would have me moving my whole hand - and in some cases arm - around! I guess I do that with my mouse here, but my mouse is sitting on a table, not floating in mid-air. Am I going to wiggle my wrist left, right and all around, and make pushing, pulling, and waving motions with my arm while they are resting on my lap on my couch? I don't think so. GameInformer said that they found it most comfortable to play the game standing up. I figured that. But guess what, there's no room in my game and movie room for me to be standing up in front of the television. My 42" tv says I gotta have the couch back a certain number of feet and that's what it is - and luckily that's what I got. I wanted a 50", but that means I would have to move the couch back another 3-4 feet, and I don't have the room for that.

The Revolution's wand-troller sounds stupid as hell.

DrunkenThumbmaster

04-19-2006, 12:51 PM

They're betting the farm on this new technology in a way they didn't with the virtual boy or the power arm, and with the praise from guys who've seen it, like Peter Molyneaux, or Ubisoft's CEO calling it "magical" I don't really see any reason to fear it won't be "functionable," as Bush would say.

The Power Arm was worth it, if only for the photos of that stupid-assed King of Arcadia wearing it.

Well it's Nintendo so I have no real doubts that the controller will function properly. Nintendo doesn't release buggy products.

This game seems cool and I think I'll get a rev eventually. But I have my doubts I think they should include a redesigned for adults wave bird as well. The wand is going to cost just as much if not more problems as successes.

All the innovations in the world aren't going to overcome the economics of making games. Games now need to be on many platforms the wand is going to inhibit Nintendo's abililty to secure 3rd party games (again) If red steele isn't a success how many more exlusive
3rd party games are we going to see here?

Nintendo I don't think there are in a winnable situtiation on one hand they alientate 3rd parties with the wand on the other if it becomes a massive success there competitors will just co-op the idea and then how will Nintendo compete against a PS3/X360 with superior technical features and a periphiale that gives them the same functionality as the one trait that makes the revvy unique?

Anyway if its cheap $200 at launch I'll get it if not down the line some time.

trebor

04-19-2006, 01:10 PM

The Revolution's wand-troller sounds stupid as hell.

So uhh... does this mean you're not going to jump on board the Rev on launch day? How will this jive with your consistent policy of hating Nintendo, hating Nintendo games, hating Nintendo products, and hating Nintendo fans? Oh wait...

Why did you post is this thread again? :rolleyes:

ThaMaskedGamer

04-19-2006, 01:12 PM

Ubisoft takes the time to make an exclusive game for the Revolution, and you turn around and think they're just paying lip service to the console cuz it isn't getting the same one-size-fits-all ports the other consoles are?
Well I think they are playing lip service. And there is nothing wrong with that they should be generating buzz, lord knows Nintendo needs it. But you guys act as if this game is already a system seller and has already sold a million copies. The game could turn out to be average, have you thought about that? Or the game could be stellar, but not sell well on the Revolution, a la Resident Evil. So guess what this is a test product for Ubisoft, it isn't a proven product.


The company wanted to try something a little different with the Rev, and release a new game that couldn't be done elsewhere. That's the strength of the system, Masked, and the reason why more than a few people are fairly stoked about it. No one wants the Revolution to play games like Ghost Recon or Farcry, they've got the PS3, PC, or Xbox360 for that, they want the Revolution for something else entirely. I have no problem with that either, each console is going to have their specialty and they should. But if Ubisoft actually believed they saw the future then they would believe that once this thing hits the market it is going to explode and i think they would have more products already being developed, not talking about "one day Ubisoft Montreal will get onboard." And where are all the other developers? I agree with everything u just said, and if that is all that was being said in this thread, I wouldn't have commented, but the whole "this is going to change the world talk and dual analog sticks are demonic crap" is just a load I had to respond to.


That's not to say the Revolution won't get it's share of ports, but that's not what the system is about. It's supposed to sit alongside the PS3 and 360 and offer it's own games, not compete with them by giving us the exact same games we can get elsewhere already.
 That is what each console is about, great multiplats fill the void, and sometime surprise us and end up being better than exclusive games. You guys have this very wrong idea that just because a game is available on another system, it detracts, that is wrong, a great game is a great game, it doesn't matter if others can play it on another platform. As i sit and play Oblvion, it doesn't piss me off that Mochan can play it on the PC, as Condemned comes to the PC I don't say, "oh damn, the PC is getting a 360 game." But that the childish view you guys take. So it is not a great thing that Revolution won't get these games, it would be great if Revolution got Red Steel and the other games as well. They do not be and at least on my console I hope they are never mutually exclusive, I hope I can get my Halos and Forzas as well as my multiplats and PC shared games.


And it's pretty well known that dual analog sticks are crap for 1st person games. Enemy AI placement has had to been gimped to compensate for the slow turning and aiming radius you get with the sticks..that's been well known for awhile. You can deny it all you want and claim it's more realistic cuz the Xbox's shoulder buttons feel more like a gun trigger, but it's pretty much the god-awful truth. That is completely your view point, this is a game and you are making statements as to how much pleasure people are getting from the game. What may not be pleasurable to you, could be to others have you thought about that. You think I care as I play Halo that the game compensates a little bit, no I'd rather that be done that have to use a mouse and keyboard. That is why some people gravitate to the XBOX and others gravitate to the PC, its called choice, people don't make that choice and speak with their dollars to support something they don't like. I have absolutely no problem, NONE, with dual sticks, if something comes along that's better, GREAT. But today, dual sticks are my preferred and millions of other gamers preferred method of control and we LOVE it. I think the 360 controller is fabulous and I have absolutely no desire to even buy a 3rd party version, it is a beautiful smart product. And you are telling me, there is a problem with it?!

I understand that the wand controller is an innovation, but that doesn't make it BETTER. We will see if it is better, but the other point is even if it is better that doesn't mean those games will or won't be better, they are two independent factors. What you guys seem to be saying is you like this controller, so automatically any games supporting it will be better by default, that is stupid. You guys don't really know anything about this game and I don't either, so lets just umm wait, is all i'm saying. Or you can get excited, that's your choice, but i'm not. We have all seen and used light guns, I know this is different, but light guns suck, we have to see if this type of input will be FUN first. How many of you have used it? NONE of you, and already it is the greatest thing to happen to FPS. People usually when things are too good to be true, it ain't true. If it is the real deal, great we may be looking at the next wave of controllers that will hit the 360 and PS3, but unless Nintendo starts making better games all they will get is credit for introducing the next way we control games.

Gadfly2317

04-19-2006, 04:08 PM

That is completely your view point, this is a game and you are making statements as to how much pleasure people are getting from the game. What may not be pleasurable to you, could be to others have you thought about that. You think I care as I play Halo that the game compensates a little bit, no I'd rather that be done that have to use a mouse and keyboard. That is why some people gravitate to the XBOX and others gravitate to the PC, its called choice,

This isn't a matter of "taste" or "personal point of view." It is a mathematical fact that thumb-stick control is SLOWER, MUCH SLOWER than PC and Revolution. I prefer conosle to PC, so I'm glad there's a console coming with fast intuitive control so that FPS might feel fun and new again. If you are trying to tell us it is you PREFER slow clunky controls and the dumbed down AI such slow control requires. . . I'd say you are either lying, clueless, or have lousy preferences.

Renzatic Gear

04-19-2006, 08:36 PM

Well I think they are playing lip service. And there is nothing wrong with that they should be generating buzz, lord knows Nintendo needs it. But you guys act as if this game is already a system seller and has already sold a million copies. The game could turn out to be average, have you thought about that? Or the game could be stellar, but not sell well on the Revolution, a la Resident Evil. So guess what this is a test product for Ubisoft, it isn't a proven product.

I have no idea if it'll be a system seller. Hell, I don't even know if I'll buy it...but it has at least piqued my interest.

And I don't understand how you think this game is just Ubisoft throwing the Rev a bone just to say they support it. Think about which takes more effort, designing a game from the ground up that utilizes an almost brand new controller type, or whipping up a Revolution port of Ghost Recon? If they were to do the latter and say "REVOLUTION? OH YEAH IT'S GREAT!" then you could consider it a lip service type situation. But as it is, they're at least showing keen interest in the system.

Glockstar

04-19-2006, 11:41 PM

Well I think they are playing lip service. And there is nothing wrong with that they should be generating buzz, lord knows Nintendo needs it. But you guys act as if this game is already a system seller and has already sold a million copies. The game could turn out to be average, have you thought about that? Or the game could be stellar, but not sell well on the Revolution, a la Resident Evil. So guess what this is a test product for Ubisoft, it isn't a proven product.

Thank you.

And I think the developers track record bears mentioning. They done good with the Rayman games, but not so good with 187 Ride or Die. But their forays into the FPS are of particular interest:
- XIII = 75.5% (rough average, all systems)
- Peter Jackson's King Kong = 82.5% (ditto)
- GRAW - Xbox and PS2 = 62.5%
- GRAW - 360 and PC = 90.0%

You people that have played those games first-hand can judge for yourself on what kind of job you think Ubisoft Paris has done. Personally, I think King Kong and GRAW (360) are two of the most over-rated games I've ever played. (Especially King Kong. Which also happened to be the most advertised and hyped game evar! Might that have anything to do with all of the favorable scores? Oh, I think so.) Platform be damned, I just have no confidence in Ubisoft Paris, personally.

Mochan

04-20-2006, 03:19 AM

I was just thinking of that, Gad. What if they made"shells" that looked like different real-world objects like guns, mini-swords, a paint roller, comb, or anything else that can be handled with one hand.

Yeah, this is what I want, too. I mentioned before I wanted a gun attachment to make the want look and feel like those the Desert Eagle light gun I am using on my PS2 today. That would be a huge thing for the game, rather than holding up a lame-ass TV remote.

Need a sword? Hope they come up with a sword attachment as well!

GameLegend

04-20-2006, 07:22 AM

Yeah, this is what I want, too. I mentioned before I wanted a gun attachment to make the want look and feel like those the Desert Eagle light gun I am using on my PS2 today. That would be a huge thing for the game, rather than holding up a lame-ass TV remote.

Need a sword? Hope they come up with a sword attachment as well!

I'm sure they have already thought and are considering the idea.
I dunno, when u have a remote, it can span to be used in all games.
it'll be weird to use a gun remote to do fishing, thats just me. But i understand where u going with this, Nintendo/Capcom released a Chainsaw GC controller way back then.

So seeing a gun is very possible, if it feels right. Remember designing the gun or whatever attachment will also need to take into consideration all the Geo-ball stuff in the original controller. Its no longer, "just add a few buttons and we're good to go".

If Nintendo never bothers making a gun peripheral, I know MadCats will (may not be that good, but they'll still swing for it)

ThaMaskedGamer

04-20-2006, 03:21 PM

No one ever said dual analogs were dead. . .they're very much alive and in place on the Xbox and Ps3, and even on the Revolution's shell-controller.

What we have said is that dual analog sticks are the old-fashioned way of gaming for old-fashioned game designs. NEW stuff will be played in a new way with the Wand, and OLD stuff will be played in new ways with the Wand. Be skeptical, but be prepared to acknowledge when it happens. Oh izzat right, so when have you used the wand controller. Because surely for you to state these absolutes you must have extensive hands on time with this product. If not your claims are just like the rest of what you usually say, a big steaming pile. This WAND hasn't been accepted and proven, it is a new product that has to EARN that, because if it doesn't it will end up just another bad idea. Oh and dual analog sticks aren't the OLD FASHIONED way they are the PRESENT way of gaming, and as evidence by the fact Nintendo made a shell with a traditional controller design, dual sticks aren't going any where, even if the WAND does prove useful.

What is demonstrably true about dual analog sticks has nothing to do with whether you are satisifed with the experience and think they are great for FPS. What is demonstrably true is that they are the slowest method of moving and aiming, positively sluggish compated to Keyboard and Mouse. BUT WAIT WAIT WAIT I hear you say, "I don't want to play on a PC or use a keyboard." I AGREE! Stop right there, what is demonstrably true about dual-sticks is that consumers have accepted them, what some nerd dweebs think about how fast you can turnaround matters not to the rest of the real world. The WAND has to be accepted by consumers, until then saying it is going to take over gaming is hype. And you never played it, yet u know its the end all be all. How does that make ANY sense, you've never even seen the thing, yet you know it is the future of gaming.

But every indication--unless we're being flat out lied to like what Sony does--is that the wand allows aiming/cursor movement to respond significantly faster than thumbsticks, and not just faster, but in a different way, allowing you for instance to twist controller sideways, or perhaps even make a small-jab motion to hit someone close with your gun, thus seemlessly integrating shooting and melee moves. Are you starting to grasp what full 3-d spatial motion control in the Wand means? Yeah i'm starting to get it, but what I don't get yet, is the thing FUN? Is it comfortable? I understand everything everybody is saying, but every product doesn't live up to its marketing claims. If it is the "truth" then we will know soon enough, but i'm not going to go by industry claims before I even see it or get a chance to put my hands on it. Then guess what the CONSOLE has to be good and the games have to be good, we already know the console is questionable and Nintendo ain't doing so hot or didn't do so well with console games the last 2 generations. So this is NOT a slam dunk.


You talk resolution and graphics as why FPS will never take off on the Rev. That could happen, but it would be really stupid. I'm sure you've used a real gun before, so bear with me. Shooting is visceral, tactile act. And aiming and shooting is about fluidity and precision. I want my in game control to be more like that. Wiggling a couple sticks in your lap just seems lame. So take a multiplat shooter. . . .hell, lets just pretend for the sake of arguing that Halo was just released on all three consoles. All three versions will look remarkable, but yes, the Rev will have fewer effects and will not support HD. But--IF the Rev version were more fun to play, more fluid and naturally with highspeed precision aiming, wouldn't you prefer that? Remember when the PS3 controller was first revealed, everybody said UGH! It looks stupid and very uncomfortable. What happened when UT and killzone2 were shown? Sony fans went APE-SH!T just off the visuals. Hell, I did too. There are a lot of ingredients that make a game fun and control is one, but if control is good and the technicals of the game are GREAT, that may outweigh GREAT control in a game with average or mediocre technicals. But still, IF IT IS BETTER AND IF IT IS FUN are very big ifs, let the WAND prove those ifs. And if it does it still may fail because its on the Revolution. Oh and you are complaining a lot about analog sticks now all of a sudden, but I didn't hear u complaining for Metroid and Resident Evil.


Be skeptical. . .that's always a wise route. Maybe the control won't be fun or work as well as the glowing praise would indicate. And yes, who wouldn't want the rev to ALSO be the most graphically powerful machine in the universe. But guess what, it's not. Nintendo spent its R&D dollars developing a whole new way to play, not just increasing horsepower. If you are a gamer, you should be chearing it works, and if you are a FPS fan, you should be hoping it works and want to support FPS games there. Because you know, if it does turn out to be a revolutionary control, it would be a shame if it weren't widely adopted. As I said before, it is just stupid for Nintendo to not make a powerful machine, nobody says it has to be as powerful as the 360(which some here think isn't powerful enough!) or the PS3, but at least make it decently powerful and support HD resolutions, hell even if they kept the same power and supported HD resolutions I wouldn't knock it, I probably wouldn't buy it or maybe I would if it was really cheap. But with no HD i can tell u right now, I will NEVER buy it. And if the control is revolutionary, believe me it will get adopted into gaming, Sony or MS would mimic it and Nintendo will go down as the company that introduced this type of control before they got out of the console business.

Once we played with a big joystick and a red button. But then came the d-pad, then the analog stick (thanks again Nintendo), and now, finally, hopefully a new paradigm. It's long overdue (we've had the analogue sticks a decade now), and every major evolution in our controllers has improved current gameplay and opened up entirely new gameplay avenues. Please tell me you do understand this, and think this is a GOOD thing. Right??? It's not ONLY about realtime contextual high-def sweat on Shaquile's head to gamers these days is it??? blah blah blah, the time to brag is after the market has spoken. You can't take a new product that no one has even touched and claim it is going to change gaming and then get mad because some people are skeptical. I realize it is possible, but you don't realize it is possible it could fail or just be average. Dual sticks have gained acceptance, scratched that, EARNED acceptance. Only something truly revolutionary can come in and nail it on the first swing, if the WAND does that, GREAT. But I can't make that judgement from the internet, that judgement will be made in peoples living-rooms and if it is the "truth" we will know instantly! I predict if this thing hasn't changed the industry inside of a month, meaning if people aren't writing glowing reviews damning dual-sticks(as u guys are here) and saying that they can't go back to gaming the way it was, if it doesn't evoke that kinda response in the first month, it never will. It'll just be a cute diversion.

GameLegend

04-20-2006, 05:18 PM

"Oh and dual analog sticks aren't the OLD FASHIONED way they are the PRESENT way of gaming, and as evidence by the fact Nintendo made a shell with a traditional controller design, dual sticks aren't going any where, even if the WAND does prove useful. "

>>>There, there, Masked, i know i know...
It would be very sad if your 360's controller became oldfashioned which would make u feel very unhappy.

"You can't take a new product that no one has even touched and claim it is going to change gaming and then get mad because some people are skeptical."

>>>This is just a thought, isnt that what u did, what everyone else does?
Before 360 came out, werent people saying it was Xbox 1.5?
And werent the Xbots like u defending it saying it was the first wave of games, that 360 has a lot of potential and they are just understanding the technolo-lalala and cure cancer...lala

"Dual sticks have gained acceptance, scratched that, EARNED acceptance. Only something truly revolutionary can come in and nail it on the first swing"

>>>Ahem, analogue sticks? D pad? vibrating controllers? All incarnations of Nintendo. So why are u so relunctant to believe another step in controllers is moving foward?

We all understand Masked, that there is a potential for it to fail. Nintendo does have a good track record, but not a perfect one (Virtual Boy). But why are u so relunctant to accept it that there is a potential, that the FPS experience games CAN get better, and Nintendo has a chance as earning 2nd place?

"hell even if they kept the same power and supported HD resolutions I wouldn't knock it, I probably wouldn't buy it or maybe I would if it was really cheap"
>>So your only real defence so far is, the graphics suck, the you are praying to God that the controller sucks too.

Oh wait, you have another defence:
"But still, IF IT IS BETTER AND IF IT IS FUN are very big ifs, let the WAND prove those ifs. And if it does it still may fail because its on the Revolution."

>>>Hmm, no matter what, its going to fail cuz its a revolution. <---wait werent u the guy who was getting mad at Gadfly for making future predictions on a product he hasnt used?
But, you've never even seen Red Steel and yet u are predicting it'll do poorly because its a revolution game.

Tisk tisk. I think you and GamerToday would be wonderful friends.

Gadfly2317

04-20-2006, 06:51 PM

Thanks for covering me there, GL. It's been a busy day.

GameLegend

04-20-2006, 07:01 PM

Thanks for covering me there, GL. It's been a busy day.

This is my last time i start replying to Masked's posts. Gawd, my head was spinning when i was reading it.
No wonder i always skip his posts, theres so much backward illogical thinking going through this confused gamer. I dont know where to start or even begin try comprehending his disoriented dribble. I dont know how u bear replying to his posts.

mandark

04-20-2006, 11:00 PM

Dual sticks have gained acceptance, scratched that, EARNED acceptance. Only something truly revolutionary can come in and nail it on the first swing, if the WAND does that, GREAT. But I can't make that judgement from the internet, that judgement will be made in peoples living-rooms and if it is the "truth" we will know instantly! I predict if this thing hasn't changed the industry inside of a month, meaning if people aren't writing glowing reviews damning dual-sticks(as u guys are here) and saying that they can't go back to gaming the way it was, if it doesn't evoke that kinda response in the first month, it never will. It'll just be a cute diversion.

You have lost your mind TMG. You keep insisting that the non-Xbots here have damned the dual-sticks for gaming in general to somehow put artificial substance to your otherwise shallow argument. When in fact all we've mostly said is that the wand may very well be the controller of choice for FPS console gaming. You and the rest of the bots can't seem to come to grips that there may be a much better way to control FPS games other than, ugh, dual analogs.

Of course the dual sticks will still be important for the platform games, racing, RPG, 3rd person games and the like. Which is exactly why Nintendo is creating the "shell". But when it comes to FPS games, dual analog sticks sucks big time. Only people who have no other choice will say dual analog is great for FPS. Metroid Prime did not rely heavily on Dual Analog sticks. That game was successful because of the Lock On implemented into the game. The only time dual analog was implemented heavily was when you have to look around and to gain a lock on an enemy, and those parts, I will have to admit, took away some of the game immersion from MP. If Metroid Prime used only the dual analog sticks for control alone I will be one of the first to say I will have to skip playing that game entirely, no matter how good it was. Thats how much I hate dual analogs for FPS games.

BTW, dual analog sticks did not "earn" acceptance. The control scheme was widely embraced right away when Sony introduced it on the PS when it came to platformers, 3rd person games, racing, RPGs, flight games, etc. Only a moron will say dual analogs are damned for general gaming. Hmmm, actually you are the only person who keeps insisting/thinking that for some reason.

Gadfly2317

04-21-2006, 07:17 AM

I dont know where to start or even begin try comprehending his disoriented dribble. I dont know how u bear replying to his posts.

I enjoy dissecting logical fallacies. It's a nice mental morning warm-up.

joquito

04-21-2006, 07:23 AM

Has anyone here ever been to a Dave & Busters? Nintendo's wand controller looks to bring that large arcade stand-up/ tactile controls to the home. I enjoy those types of controls but don't covet them for long term use, even for FPS. Have I played with the new Revolution's controller? No not exactly, but I have played with hundreds of tactile/ spacial controls every time I step into D&B; which more than likely the wandtroller is an implementaion of. (They have boxing games, sword games, Shooting games, etc) So this wand controller isn't really new, just new to the home. So lets stop mystifying this new controller.

Rogue Bounty Hunter

04-21-2006, 08:05 AM

How does everyone feel about using the wandtroller for games other than FPS? Will people want to play Madden with it? What about Mario Kart, any baseball game, 3rd person action/adventure games, fighting games, flight sims, The Sims, etc?

ThaMaskedGamer

04-21-2006, 08:15 AM

These are just insults, not thoughtful replies which refute or deal with any of the real problems I presented. I know why u hate replying to my post, because they make so much damn sense. I suggest u go back and re-read and try again because you are coming up way short.


>>>There, there, Masked, i know i know...
It would be very sad if your 360's controller became oldfashioned which would make u feel very unhappy. Prime example, you haven't said anything here. Just a weak insult. Without ever even laying your eyes on a wand controller, its gonna come in over night and make dual sticks old-fashioned! Okay, if that is evidence if those are reliable facts then okay we shouldn't be responding to each other. Can we at least let people see and try this thing at E-3, let objective media cover it, and even if they LOVE it, the public STILL has to.


>>>This is just a thought, isnt that what u did, what everyone else does?
Before 360 came out, werent people saying it was Xbox 1.5?
And werent the Xbots like u defending it saying it was the first wave of games, that 360 has a lot of potential and they are just understanding the technolo-lalala and cure cancer...lala You are comparing apples to oranges. Its kind of obvious that factual technical specifications are not opinion. Its not opinion that the 360 is more powerful than the XBOX, its not opinion that 1080i and 720p is better than 480i, its not opinion that the 360 GPU is way powerful than what was in the XBOX. What you are talking about is your opinion about a device you have never used and games you have never played and you lay it down as though its gospel.


>>>Ahem, analogue sticks? D pad? vibrating controllers? All incarnations of Nintendo. So why are u so relunctant to believe another step in controllers is moving foward? Thanks fool you have just proven what I said in my post. IF the wand proves to be a good product, Nintendo will go down in history as the company that introduced it, while MS and Sony will continue to lead the industry. A controller does not make a console, it is only a part of it. So once again, N64 a failure, GC a failure, Revolution? What is going to prevent Revolution from failing? Just the WAND? No, I don't care how good the wand is, Nintendo must have great games and a lot more than 1 or 2 per year, and they still have to prove to the public their low tech way is better. There is a lot after GC and N64 that Nintendo must prove and they should not be given the benefit of the doubt, you love them so you will be the first idiot in line, but the rest of America and a lot of Japan are going to say "okay let's wait and see if Nintendo is really back." And before they dominate FPS I'll tell you they are going to need a lot more games than Red Steel and they will need a tremendous online presence to attract FPS fans, I don't see this kinda support. Where is it?


We all understand Masked, that there is a potential for it to fail. Nintendo does have a good track record, but not a perfect one (Virtual Boy). But why are u so relunctant to accept it that there is a potential, that the FPS experience games CAN get better, and Nintendo has a chance as earning 2nd place? We seem to be having a failure to communicate. It is indeed you that cannot see there is potential for failure. First there is potential for the WAND to fail, second there is potential for the Revolution to fail. I understand the potential, but ask any football team that's drafted a heisman trophy winner, potential don't mean JACK when its game time. I'm not against progress or innovation i'm saying i'm skeptical and at the very least I need some proof before I believe the grandiose claims in this case. What did you guys think everybody is just gonna believe the hype and rush out and buy Revolution, that's what Nintendo wants us to do, and Sony, and MS for that matter. I support MS and Sony because I believe they have proven in the recent past they have the know-how to back up a majority of their claims. On the console front, Nintendo has proven to me that they don't know what the hell they are doing the last two generations, so i'm sorry i'm not giving them the benefit of the doubt.


>>So your only real defence so far is, the graphics suck, the you are praying to God that the controller sucks too. See I told you it is you who don't understand this can fail. I don't need a defense because this is not a my war against Nintendo. All i'm saying is this control method has to gain acceptance by gamers and if that is done WAND methods could be the next way we control games. And also what i'm saying is even if the WAND is good, Nintendo hasn't had a successful console the last two generations so that have to also make a successful product overall. I believe that the first task is up to gamers in general, and the second task is going to be even harder because of the road Nintendo has chosen to take. Nobody has come in with a SIGNIFICANTLY weaker console and WON the console war. If you are gonna tell me that Revolution is going to be stuck in 3rd place and do no better than GC, then we have no argument. But I don't believe that is what you guys believe, I think u guys foolishly believe that the WAND is going to spur a lol Revolution and people will be joyously dancing through the streets and Nintendo will once again reign supreme. No, WAND could be good, but Revolution is going to be stuck in 3rd place and if anything 360 and PS3 would develop their own wand-esque controllers and what u said earlier will come true.


>>>Hmm, no matter what, its going to fail cuz its a revolution. <---wait werent u the guy who was getting mad at Gadfly for making future predictions on a product he hasnt used?
But, you've never even seen Red Steel and yet u are predicting it'll do poorly because its a revolution game.

Tisk tisk. I think you and GamerToday would be wonderful friends. Lemme ask u a question. Is the PS3 going to be successful? There are differeing degrees of success, but I dont think there is anybody who would say Sony isn't the front runner in terms of coming out on top of this generation once again. They may slip and lose some ground and they could be overtaken, but given past performance if you only had one choice and your life was on the line, all of us would take Sony. If Sony was to fall off the top of the mountain, who would be the likely successor? Revolution or 360? Well let's say that Revolution did win, that would mean that millions of consumers who adopting HD tv sets, who have demonstrated in the present that they love graphics and power, and have a big interest in online gaming, all of a sudden would denounce all of that and adopt the Revolution a console which does NONE of that well. So in a very real logical sense you should be able to see the hurdle against Nintendo.

Now what exactly are you saying? Because i'm making it very clear, with the WAND the Revolution is going to end up in 3rd place. Will they be closer to 360 this time around? I don't think so, I think they will be further back from 360 than GC was to XBOX. Now that's all that matters. We can argue wand all day, but if wand doesn't change Nintendo's fortunes it failed. U can argue subjective tastes all day long, but WAND is not going to stop 5 million people from buying Halo3 or 5 million people from buying MetalGear4. Will 5 million people buy Red Steel? I don't think so. If you think that's me saying Red Steel will fail, well I guess if that's how u define it, it will fail. Ubisoft's biggest product, in terms of 1st week sales across any platform was GRAW, and that was done on a system that just launched and had a crippled distribution.

Now u can talk about how u are going to ignore me, but I don't need u to respond to my posts for these ideas to be valid or invalid. In other words we can just wait and see who was right.

ThaMaskedGamer

04-21-2006, 09:13 AM

You have lost your mind TMG. You keep insisting that the non-Xbots here have damned the dual-sticks for gaming in general to somehow put artificial substance to your otherwise shallow argument. When in fact all we've mostly said is that the wand may very well be the controller of choice for FPS console gaming. You and the rest of the bots can't seem to come to grips that there may be a much better way to control FPS games other than, ugh, dual analogs.
I do not think I'm losing it. I really think you guys, when you look back a year from now, are going to see you are all jumping the gun. Just skip the insults and look at what i'm saying. It is a shallow argument to say that a product which NOBODY has used or even laid eyes on in real life is going to be the controller of choice to control FPS. It is not shallow to say, hold up guys can we at least touch it first? Can we at least see if its fun? And oh yeah, um is the game any good? And what other games are WANDS good at? by your next paragraph u seem to be saying that WAND is only best with FPS, and that 3rd person shooters and action games, racers, and the like will still be suited for dual-sticks, if that is your argument then the WAND is going to have an even tougher route. It can't be a one-trick pony friend, especially if that trick is FPS when Nintendo is not really known as a platform for FPS. And you mean all this time Nintendo fans have been craving FPS but waiting for the right control. Ohhhh so the truth is finally revealed. Well, I can't wait. I'm convinced now. I've been playing FPS wrong all this time. And because the guys who have never touched the wand, said its best for FPS, i'm going to rush out and buy Revolution to play Red Steel. Yes Red Steel a game that has not even showed a demo yet alone a preview, yet alone a REVIEW, that game is going to be so great that its going to make me forget Halo3, Rainbow6, BIA3. I mean you guys without any EVIDENCE have proven your case. The new control for FPS is the wand and Revolution is going to be the home of FPS, but oh um dual-sticks are still best for everything else. That's a good thing guys cause i'm glad I can still play Gears of War(that's 3rd person right), Splinter Cell 4(still 3rd person I pray), and Mass Effect(RPG are dual sticks still good for those?). I guess I don't have to worry about Motogp and Forza either, I guess dual-sticks are still good there. I better throw away GRAW though, all the suffereing i'm going through, I never knew I was having a bad time till u guys told me. Damned i was just gonna play that game tonight online for a few hours. Man its gonna really suck though because when I play my FPS on Revolution I won't be able to play online, oh well, the WAND is all that matters.