Sony Unveils Official Online PS3 Plans

[Zilla Man]

Before I start this thread let me start out by quoting VGR's most famous ignoramus:

2 months ago is not the time to plan an online network for PS3. The plan to do that should have been 2 years ago. They don't even know if they require a HDD or not. I mean who is making this thing? Because the manufacturer seems clueless.

Read below why your above statement is not only wrong, but also irrelevant.

http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=63292

Further details of the PlayStation Network Platform announced by SCE boss Ken Kutaragi in Tokyo yesterday have emerged, including the fact that the ability to play games online will be included in the basic free service.

Additional information about the service has emerged as the slides used by Kutaragi in his presentation have been posted online, bringing with them a host of details of exactly what will be included in Sony's online offering.

As reported yesterday, the PlayStation Network Platform will have a basic free service which will be available to all purchasers of the PS3 from the day of launch in November, and which will be co-created by Sony Online Entertainment (creators of the Station.com system used by games such as Everquest, Planetside and Star Wars Galaxies) and GameSpy.

The free service will support a host of communication and community features, including voice and video chat, messaging, unique user IDs and handles, and matchmaking, ranking and data upload and download service for games.

Crucially, the basic service will allow users to play games online - a factor which sets it apart from Microsoft's equivalent free service, Xbox Live Silver, which enables community features and content purchases, but doesn't allow users to play multiplayer online games.

Sony's system will be handing off significantly more control to game publishers, who will be able to run their own game servers as they see fit. Although Sony will be creating a standard infrastructure for the service, with data centres in Asia, North America and Europe, the system will still run over the conventional Internet and publishers will be able to connect their own servers to it.

This opens the possibility that game publishers could charge their own fees for playing games, which is indeed likely to be the case for titles such as massively multiplayer games - a genre which will be well-served by Sony's more "hands-off" approach to the network service, since some MMOG publishers have opined that Microsoft's approach is too restrictive on their business models.

However, Sony is pushing hard for publishers to use the network to generate revenue through selling content, rather than through charging users for multiplayer functionality, and the PlayStation Network Platform is designed from the ground up to support a wide range of content sale and payment methods.

One slide from Kutaragi's presentation lists a few of the options available to publishers in this regard, which appear to be at least as advanced, if not more so, as Microsoft's Xbox Live Marketplace offering.

As well as stores for the sale of content which will be set up on the main PS3 "portal", Sony will also offer publishers the opportunity to create in-game stores in their titles which integrate in the background with the main store infrastructure.

Content purchases can work in a number of different ways on the network, with publishers not restricted to simple item-by-item transactions for their content. Subscription payments are also built into the system, as is a micropayment system allowing users to pay tiny amounts of money for small pieces of content.

How exactly this will work from the point of view of users of the service is not yet clear; it's likely that Sony will use a credits system, as Microsoft does on Xbox Live, which allows a balance of "currency" to be topped up with credit card payments or game cards bought in-store.

What exactly will be sold on the marketplace system is still the subject of some speculation - but after we revealed last week that Sony has been speaking to its publishing partners about the technical issues regarding distributing PSone and PS2 content online, three more important hints have been dropped which suggest that this content will indeed be on the menu for PlayStation 3.

Firstly, we now know that the PS3 will have a 60Gb hard drive as a bare minimum, which means that even downloading PS2 games (which could occupy over 4Gb in some cases) isn't an impossibility; secondly, the firm has confirmed that the PS3 will be able to boot games directly from its hard drive, and has made much of having 100% backwards compatibility with PSone and PS2 titles, which will play in high-definition on the new hardware.

Finally, and perhaps most tellingly of all, the company yesterday announced that it will be distributing selected PSone titles over a new digital distribution service aimed at PSP owners, allowing them to download the games and play them directly off a Memory Stick - a move which indicates Sony's first attempt to directly exploit its substantial back catalogue, and which almost certainly indicates where it plans to go with the PS3.

Content available on the PlayStation Network Platform is unlikely to be limited to game-related content alone, either. The PS3 is being promoted as a media server for the home, and while Microsoft doesn't allow users of the Xbox 360 to download movies or music directly via the console - arguing that the proper place for that functionality is on a Windows Media Centre PC - Sony is likely to want to do exactly that with PS3.

More details of the network service will undoubtedly emerge in the coming months, with the full picture certain to be filled in by September - when the test version of the network will come online, allowing developers to test their online-enabled titles in a replica of the final environment.

And for those with poor reading comprehension skills liked Masked Gamer, let me reiterate the important part of the article:

Crucially, the basic service will allow users to play games online - a factor which sets it apart from Microsoft's equivalent free service, Xbox Live Silver, which enables community features and content purchases, but doesn't allow users to play multiplayer online games.

Let's see, Sony's online multiplayer service is free as, is Nintendo's. That doesn't put MS in an enviable position, does it?

Masked Gamer: "But all Sony did was copy what MS did already. Those bastards!"

Yeah, just like MS copied Sony with the Xbox controllers, a DVD player, and the 360 vertical stand.

Welcome to System Wars, pal.

The important word here is FREE. The majority of Xbox owners aren't on Xbox live and I'm betting MS's charging for something that's essentiially free on the PC is a major factor. And while it states that some publishers may charge fees to play online, I'm betting that the majority (the non MMORPG's) won't. If Sony pulls this off, there goes the last "advantage" MS had over the competition.

Add this to 100% percent backwards compatibility and the PSP interconnectivity, PS1 games and you've got one fierce entry in the Next Gen system wars.

Place yer bets!

[Mochan]

It's not essentially free on the PC, it *IS* free. Except for MMO, but that's another matter entirely.

You know what has me thinking? Didn't we see some note somewhere that Sony's launch is delayed since they're sorting out the kinks of the DRM thing? I'd imagine Sony is tearing their hair out trying to figure out how to stop piracy when you can install and boot games from the hard drive.

I already see a bright future on the high seas wearing my eye patch, hook and pegleg sailing the PS3.

[Fivespot]

If the basic service is free and offers online multiplayer, what the heck will the non-basic service do???? And how much will that cost?

PS3 fans should be happy - this online service seems to mimics XBOX Live almost identically which is a good thing (if you've ever had the pleasure to play over XBOX Live).

[ThaMaskedGamer]

You got it all wrong! You are upset because we criticized Sony for making misteps, I don't see why you just don't admit the misteps and move on instead of trying to defend them. I said in my post, hey Sony messed up, that's the facts, now lets see how they execute in November. That's all. Don't try and pretend that missing their own deadline is good news and that having 3 milliion units at most availabe before XMAS for the whole world is good news.


Anyway, this is good news for gamers. I've said all along I would like to buy a PS3, I know of course I won't be able to do that this year. But I hope the PS3 is a 360 killer, I hope its the greatest game machine EVARRRRRR, why? Cause i'm a gamer. But certainly PS3 is off to a rocky start and there is nothing wrong with admitting that, you guys can dish it out, but you can't take it. That is the only problem here.

There are a few problems I see with this, the first being that publishers are basically going to be in control, 2nd is that they could charge for gaming online. Whether it is better than LIVE or not we will just have to wait and see. If you are a person who thinks anything FREE is better than you will like this, that is until you have to pay to play the best game online, or two of the best games, or five of the best games. After all is said and done, a person could end up paying more for this than LIVE. So we just have to wait and see, also plans are one thing, it remains to be seen how well it actually works.

So kudos to Sony. Hopefully in 2007 sometime we can all be able to get a PS3 and try it out.

[theWacoKid]

Somebody wake me when sony actually shows anything of their online plan. All do they do is jibber jabber, blah, blah, blah. Xbox live is a working, functioning reality. Playstation network is currently vaporware with a stated intention of being available at launch.

Of course, this is the same company that we said, "We're still on track for a spring PS3 launch" just this past week. And the sony nuthuggers are buying this latest exercise in pr gum flapping oneupmanship as being the real deal. Sony is the PT Barnum of the videogame world where a sucker is born every minute with guys like zilla as head SUCKA!

Sony's online is in real trouble if they've had to resort to using gamespy technology. Yeah, like that's the blue chip standard for online gaming. NOT! Nothing that sony has said in their latest round of spec boasting is new. I've heard all this stuff before from months ago. Where are the screenshots so I can check out their interface for this new ps network. Where are the details, the specifics. Oh, yeah, TBA. Whatever. This is just sony looking to buy more time, telling the faithful, stay put, wer're for real, honest, we'll be there by the end of the year, the wait's not that long, it'll be worth it, yadda, yadda.

At this point, comparisons between the imaginary yet to be seen in any functional form Playstation network versus xbox live are pointless. One exists, the other doesn't. End of freakin story.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Somebody wake me when sony actually shows anything of their online plan. All do they do is jibber jabber, blah, blah, blah. Xbox live is a working, functioning reality. Playstation network is currently vaporware with a stated intention of being available at launch.

Of course, this is the same company that we said, "We're still on track for a spring PS3 launch" just this past week. And the sony nuthuggers are buying this latest exercise in pr gum flapping oneupmanship as being the real deal. Sony is the PT Barnum of the videogame world where a sucker is born every minute with guys like zilla as head SUCKA!

Sony's online is in real trouble if they've had to resort to using gamespy technology. Yeah, like that's the blue chip standard for online gaming. NOT! Nothing that sony has said in their latest round of spec boasting is new. I've heard all this stuff before from months ago. Where are the screenshots so I can check out their interface for this new ps network. Where are the details, the specifics. Oh, yeah, TBA. Whatever. This is just sony looking to buy more time, telling the faithful, stay put, wer're for real, honest, we'll be there by the end of the year, the wait's not that long, it'll be worth it, yadda, yadda.

At this point, comparisons between the imaginary yet to be seen in any functional form Playstation network versus xbox live are pointless. One exists, the other doesn't. End of freakin story.


This is just typical of how Sony has been reacting to the presence of XBOX in the market. XBOX has a HDD, okay let's introduce our HDD and we promise to make a lot of games for it. Months later its garbage. XBOX is killing PS2 in online racing, okay we are gonna make GT4 online. Years later, well we can't do it, but we promise to make an online expansion so just wait for that. And it continues. First they boast, the nextgen starts with us! We don't think the 360 is a competitor. So what do they do? They move up their launch from 2007 to 2006. Now the latest is their online. They float a questionnaire basically asking do you want us to make our service like LIVE. What do they do? Instead of building it out themselves, they take the cheap route and use Gamespy. Then they miss their launch, but basically are saying just hold on and wait for us cause we are gonna be great.

Well like I said earlier, we can give them the benefit of the doubt(well I can I already have a 360 lol). Let's believe what Sony says. They are saying wait for us cause we will be better. Well, this Fall we will see if they are better. I mean this thing better have games out the wazooo that are clearly superior to the 360 in order to justify all of this. If so then i'll be the first to say, damn I can't wait to get one.

[Glockstar]

Somebody wake me when sony actually shows anything of their online plan. All do they do is jibber jabber, blah, blah, blah. Xbox live is a working, functioning reality. Playstation network is currently vaporware with a stated intention of being available at launch. ...

... At this point, comparisons between the imaginary yet to be seen in any functional form Playstation network versus xbox live are pointless. One exists, the other doesn't. End of freakin story.

Exactly.

Blah blah blah. And then the Sony nutsucker comes back, 'blah blah blah'. Pfffft.

Eurogamer said it, but it went right over the nuthugger's head: More details of the network service will undoubtedly emerge in the coming months, with the full picture certain to be filled in by September - when the test version of the network will come online, allowing developers to test their online-enabled titles in a replica of the final environment.

Test Version in September. System launch in November. Fully funtioning Playstation Network in November too? Doubt it!

[theWacoKid]

Well, this Fall we will see if they are better. I mean this thing better have games out the wazooo that are clearly superior to the 360 in order to justify all of this. If so then i'll be the first to say, damn I can't wait to get one.

I suggest you check out the following link and you'll get a chance to howl at sony's concept of what next gen gaming is all about. Untold Legends: Dark Kingdom featuring the ps3 "box guy." You can check out the screens and have a good laugh.

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/695/695890p1.html

Not only is the game visually unimpressive, there's absolutely nothing going on in those screenshots. Hell, at least Kameo had thousands of trolls. I can't believe sony actually allowed those screenshots to be shown to the public. What a joke. I'm going to hold off on next gen so I can play a bad psp series on the ps3 with visuals that look they came from a ps2 launch title.

As for sony and its third parties bringing everything together, good luck. Sony has yet to bring out GT4 online, how long has this farce been ongoing. MGS4 is touted as a system selling app for the ps3, yeah, like in 2008/2009. it took Kojima and company how long to include a controllable camera along with an online component?! MGS3 came out in november of 2004. 16 months later they get around to adding features to MGS3 that the splinter cell series has had since pandora:tomorrow and wouldn't you know it, the gaming media is licking kojima's balls llke it always does instead of flaying him alive they would they would if another developer did this. Unfreakin believable. And take a look at a franchise like FF. FFXII won't be here until the summer, so that means what FFXIII sometime in 2010. So, what exactly is it that I'm waiting for on the ps3. Killzone 2? Killzone sucked. The Getaway for the ps3? The Getaway games sucked. I8? Insomniac haven't done an fps in ages. This game could wind up sucking worse than PDZ.

As for the playstation network, Sony can't even put together a coherent file naming system for movie files on the psp but, they're going to put together an xbox live killer on their first attempt. Yeah, right. The gullibility on display is positively mind boggling.

Sony has never met their production targets with their consoles. They choked on ps2 allocation numbers and were forced to conduct emergency airllfts to NA shores just to get half the number originally stated only a couple of months prior . And keep in mind, that the ps2 had been in production since the beginning of the year. So, that means even with 9-10 months of actual production behind their belt they still blew the NA and Euro launches.

Fast forward to the psp launch. Same BS from sony, we're making a million psps a month, we'll be up to two million/mo. by the first quarter and 3 million/mo. by the end of the first year. Reality, they launched with only 200k in japan. They barely produced 500k/mo for the first few months. The proposed simulatneous NA/Euro launch in late march was canned. Europe was shifted to september because sony once again failed to even come close to stated production targets.

If nintendo delivers the revolution in november, then sony may have no choice to toss the ps3 out there regardless of how few units they have available or how bad the launch goes. Their attitude might be like filmmakers who royally screw up when shooting by saying, "We'll fix it in post." Nintendo could potentially steal their thunder and the focus by the gaming media could be all about nintendo leaving sony high and dry when it comes to consumer mindshare. Watching movies in high res is still just watching movies, but if nintendo can truly innovate with the revolution, that's what will be grabbing the headlines.

Right now, sony's announcements are smacking of desparation. Next gen is moving ahead without them. Ubisoft announced that GRAW for the 360 had the highest number of pre-orders of any ubisoft title. They sold 240k units of graw for the 360 in the first week and 120k in the first 3 days in Europle. That small installed base is buying games and that's all that matters to publishers. I'm going to laugh my ass off when the ps2 version releases and doesn't come anywhere close to those numbers. So much for that huge installed base meaning much of anything if they all just sit on their wallets.

[folken001]

It's funny how Xbots kept going after PS3's online service plan. I mean, what's the big deal? PS2 had very little online support and it beat the living crap outta Xbox. This tells us a couple things. 1. Mainstream gamers don't give a damn about online gaming. 2. PS3 most likely won't need a perfect online service to murder xbox 360. It seems to me, xbots are out of stuff to nitpick regarding to ps3. Why don't they ever talk about Xbox 360's 20 gig hard drive cost about 100 dollars? Is that considered a good buy? It would be if this was 7 years ago.

If online service for ps3 turns out to be great, then it's cool for all of us. If it's not, then owell, maybe it'll be better when PS4 comes around. A simple concept that xbots aka PC gamers wanna be would never get and that is: console market is hardly driven by online gaming.

[Fivespot]

A simple concept that xbots aka PC gamers wanna be would never get and that is: console market is hardly driven by online gaming.

A comment only someone who doesn't play on XBOX Live would make....

No, it doesn't make console gaming and PS3 would still win w/out the online service. I'll also agree with you that it doesn't drive the console gaming industry. Obviously, or PS2 wouldn't have dominated like it did over the last few years.

But once you try Live, its sure feels weak playing online PS2.... And with the 360 fully integrated with massive online functionality, I almost don't want to play any other console games at the moment. This may seem crazy to some but ask anyone else who is online with the 360 and I'm sure you'll hear a similar story.

Look at the DS folks around here lately as another, but slightly different example. Giddy as kids playing classics like Mario Kart and Animal Crossing online w/friends. Sure seems to me like online gaming means something to people and if Sony doesn't come to play with the big boys, they will only lose further customers even if they still end up on top. Looks like they realize that and are jumping on board.

One thing to keep in mind however is that XBOX live has been around for a few years. It wasn't perfect right away and gained fuctionality and has gotten better over those years. So no matter what, Sony will not come out of the gate with as strong a service in my opinion. I suppose they have the resources to do it however (Sony online - strong skills with those folks).

[folken001]

A comment only someone who doesn't play on XBOX Live would make....

No, it doesn't make console gaming and PS3 would still win w/out the online service. I'll also agree with you that it doesn't drive the console gaming industry. Obviously, or PS2 wouldn't have dominated like it did over the last few years.

But once you try Live, its sure feels weak playing online PS2.... And with the 360 fully integrated with massive online functionality, I almost don't want to play any other console games at the moment. This may seem crazy to some but ask anyone else who is online with the 360 and I'm sure you'll hear a similar story.

Look at the DS folks around here lately as another, but slightly different example. Giddy as kids playing classics like Mario Kart and Animal Crossing online w/friends. Sure seems to me like online gaming means something to people and if Sony doesn't come to play with the big boys, they will only lose further customers even if they still end up on top. Looks like they realize that and are jumping on board.

One thing to keep in mind however is that XBOX live has been around for a few years. It wasn't perfect right away and gained fuctionality and has gotten better over those years. So no matter what, Sony will not come out of the gate with as strong a service in my opinion. I suppose they have the resources to do it however (Sony online - strong skills with those folks).

I've played Xbox LIve. Perhaps what I played didn't exactly demostrate its potential, but I really don't think that's the point. First fo all, these people are knocking on a service that has yet become fully operational. In fact, it's a concept that's released a few days ago. 2ndly, that's all they do. Whenever PS3 is talked about, these blabbers seems to know all about PS3's online service forseeable doom. Whatever.

Onling gaming is not completely unimportant. But when you look at top selling games of consoles, there's just no proof showing that it's a important deciding factor for a game to sell well.

[Fivespot]

But when you look at top selling games of consoles, there's just no proof showing that it's a important deciding factor for a game to sell well.

What about Halo2? The biggest upside to that game prior to it coming out was the fact that you could play XBOX Halo online (not counting the PC version of Halo). Although that is something that could probably never be proven.

Didn't Socom for the PS2 mainly only sell for it's online multiplayer? Ghost Recon sold well on the XBOX because of multiplayer. What else? Dead or Alive Ultimate. Perfect Dark Zero.

[Mochan]

Well Fiveski, all Sony has to do is copy what MS is doing.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

I've played Xbox LIve. Perhaps what I played didn't exactly demostrate its potential, but I really don't think that's the point. First fo all, these people are knocking on a service that has yet become fully operational. In fact, it's a concept that's released a few days ago. 2ndly, that's all they do. Whenever PS3 is talked about, these blabbers seems to know all about PS3's online service forseeable doom. Whatever.

Onling gaming is not completely unimportant. But when you look at top selling games of consoles, there's just no proof showing that it's a important deciding factor for a game to sell well.

I think you need to re-read what I said. I think the PS3 has tons of potential. Now for someone like you they obviously can release a console with a bunch of sh*tballs inside of it and you would buy it. But I think when fall rolls around Sony is going to be asking a lot of gamers who don't luck out to wait until later into 2007. I can comfortably say this, if the PS3 isn't clearly superior to the 360 and if it costs tons more than the 360, and if you have to wait until March 2007 to get one, a lot of gamers are going to say eff it i'm getting a 360 this XMAS. So the most important thing for Sony, the very most important thing is their games have gotta be SMOKIN' 360 games. They can't launch with COD2, Burnout Revenge, and the same stuff that was on 360 a year ago. Further they have gotta have better games and better looking games than 360's new games like Mass Effect and Gears of War and quite possibly Halo3. This is a tremendously huge challenge for Sony. It will be hard to launch and beat the 360, but essentially this is the challenge Sony has bitten off for themselves.

Now don't get me wrong. I believe if there was 6 million PS3 available in the US for XMAS Sony could release the PS3 with crap games and all 6 million would sell. But only bringing maybe 1 million units by XMAS to the States, Sony better have some indisputable bad-azz completely 360 smokin' games that will make people say, okay i'm gonna wait 3 more months and pay $150 more.

You are right, the network stuff isn't gonna matter.

[folken001]

What about Halo2? The biggest upside to that game prior to it coming out was the fact that you could play XBOX Halo online (not counting the PC version of Halo). Although that is something that could probably never be proven.

Didn't Socom for the PS2 mainly only sell for it's online multiplayer? Ghost Recon sold well on the XBOX because of multiplayer. What else? Dead or Alive Ultimate. Perfect Dark Zero.
Well, not just Halo, most FPS game on Xbox gets the benefit of online gaming. However, you have to realize that's only because Xbox is packed with FPS, Sport games, and such. PS has much wider variety of games that don't need online to make them more attractive. I guess that's how you get the illusion that online gaming is bigger than what it actually is. Yes, Socom 3 is popular and people do play it online. But that's 1 out of how many PS games out there?

Mochan is right. All Sony has to do is to copy what M$ is doing as far as online gaming is concerned. It' just like M$ is copying Sony and tried to push out Xbox 360 first even though Xbox is perfectly alive still.

[folken001]

I think you need to re-read what I said. I think the PS3 has tons of potential. Now for someone like you they obviously can release a console with a bunch of sh*tballs inside of it and you would buy it. But I think when fall rolls around Sony is going to be asking a lot of gamers who don't luck out to wait until later into 2007. I can comfortably say this, if the PS3 isn't clearly superior to the 360 and if it costs tons more than the 360, and if you have to wait until March 2007 to get one, a lot of gamers are going to say eff it i'm getting a 360 this XMAS. So the most important thing for Sony, the very most important thing is their games have gotta be SMOKIN' 360 games. They can't launch with COD2, Burnout Revenge, and the same stuff that was on 360 a year ago. Further they have gotta have better games and better looking games than 360's new games like Mass Effect and Gears of War and quite possibly Halo3. This is a tremendously huge challenge for Sony. It will be hard to launch and beat the 360, but essentially this is the challenge Sony has bitten off for themselves.

Now don't get me wrong. I believe if there was 6 million PS3 available in the US for XMAS Sony could release the PS3 with crap games and all 6 million would sell. But only bringing maybe 1 million units by XMAS to the States, Sony better have some indisputable bad-azz completely 360 smokin' games that will make people say, okay i'm gonna wait 3 more months and pay $150 more.

You are right, the network stuff isn't gonna matter.
You can't say that I am the type of the person who would buy any junk when I obviously didn't buy a xbox. There were like 4 genres total on Xbox. It's one FPS after another. Even a port like Doom gets a shout or two from you guys.

I think you know and I know and, especially, Sony knows that PS3 is going to sell. No matter when it's coming out. What I don't understand is why is it so important to you and some others who obviously are loyally sided with Xbox 360 care so much about its delay. Hey sure delay is disappointing but that also means 360 gets to live a bit longer. Isn't that great news for you guys? Why do you have to make it like Sony is going to die tomorrow just because of PS3 delay or something?

I think so far, the general idea is, PS3 > Xbox 360. Why would you assume otherwise when it's going to be released more than half year later? Did you assume the same when Xbox was released that it was going to be as powerful as PS2? So, how exactly is it not clearly superior? Anyhow, people can all go out and buy themselves a xbox 360. But, they all in the end will also end up with a ps3 as well. Most likely, there will be a lot people like myself who will just not bother with a xbox and only aim for a PS3 instead.

I really don't care how many PS3 is going to sell at this moment. I only care to have ONE myself.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

You can't say that I am the type of the person who would buy any junk when I obviously didn't buy a xbox. There were like 4 genres total on Xbox. It's one FPS after another. Even a port like Doom gets a shout or two from you guys.

I think you know and I know and, especially, Sony knows that PS3 is going to sell. No matter when it's coming out. What I don't understand is why is it so important to you and some others who obviously are loyally sided with Xbox 360 care so much about its delay. Hey sure delay is disappointing but that also means 360 gets to live a bit longer. Isn't that great news for you guys? Why do you have to make it like Sony is going to die tomorrow just because of PS3 delay or something?

I think so far, the general idea is, PS3 > Xbox 360. Why would you assume otherwise when it's going to be released more than half year later? Did you assume the same when Xbox was released that it was going to be as powerful as PS2? So, how exactly is it not clearly superior? Anyhow, people can all go out and buy themselves a xbox 360. But, they all in the end will also end up with a ps3 as well. Most likely, there will be a lot people like myself who will just not bother with a xbox and only aim for a PS3 instead.

I really don't care how many PS3 is going to sell at this moment. I only care to have ONE myself.


Yeah I completely agree with you Sony is going to sell a lot of PS3 no matter when they get around to being widely available. The question is how many will they sell? The question is how much of a loss will they need to recoup? The question is how much market share will they recede to 360? I don't think anybody ever thought Sony was going to go out of business. But like I said before Sony fans here can dish it, but they can't take it. By stating the XBOX was only good in 4 genres you bring up a good point, these were genres that XBOX owned PS2 in and they happened to be the biggest genres. Like I said before if PS3's games aren't clearly superior and the machine is not available, and it cost an arm and a leg, then the scale slides to 360 and Sony will lose more marketshare. Is that dire? No, but its something to talk about. Its systems war fodder. I think more systems war fodder will be how much they lose on each console they sell. It'll be funny to see the first years loss figures lol. Again do I care about any of this? No, but you guys cared when MS lost so much money per console, so I just want to remind you guys. All of this was funny when XBOX was having problems, not it ain't so funny no more to you guys. Everything is oh its not a problem. I hope you are one of the guys who ends up missing out on a PS3 this year, I'll bet u think its a problem then.

[slade]

I think more systems war fodder will be how much they lose on each console they sell. It'll be funny to see the first years loss figures lol. Again do I care about any of this? No, but you guys cared when MS lost so much money per console, so I just want to remind you guys.

LOL, when we cared, it mattered. After all, losing money continuously was why MS dumped the X-box after only four years on the market. Sony will lose money but they also lost money on the PS2 and they recouped those losses in a big way. That's what happens when you do everything in-house and have software which routinely cracks one million units. With 360, MS has gotten one of the equations in the formula. It remains to be seen whether they can do any better with the other.

[Jupiter_x]

LOL, when we cared, it mattered. After all, losing money continuously was why MS dumped the X-box after only four years on the market. Sony will lose money but they also lost money on the PS2 and they recouped those losses in a big way. That's what happens when you do everything in-house and have software which routinely cracks one million units. With 360, MS has gotten one of the equations in the formula. It remains to be seen whether they can do any better with the other.

Forget about it Slade, Don't waste your breath! They like to hear themselves talk!

[theWacoKid]

LOL, when we cared, it mattered. After all, losing money continuously was why MS dumped the X-box after only four years on the market. Sony will lose money but they also lost money on the PS2 and they recouped those losses in a big way. That's what happens when you do everything in-house and have software which routinely cracks one million units. With 360, MS has gotten one of the equations in the formula. It remains to be seen whether they can do any better with the other.

Sony routinely cracks a million units with 1st party titles?! I think you're cracked. Maybe for big ass franchises like GT and Socom, but the rest of it isn't flying off store shelves even at $39.99 price points. I don't remember Jak X combat racing, R&C Deadlocked or Sly 3 being mega hits. I must have missed the memo on those games cracking the million mark. Oh, sure they eventually crack a mil, when sony dumps down to $20. I guess sony's sports offerings kick EA's butt. And I guess it was my imagination, when titles like Dark Cloud 2, Rise of the Kasai, and Getaway: Black Monday stiffed. Considering how many ps2s are out there, when these games stiff, that's really saying something.

[GameLegend]

I already see a bright future on the high seas wearing my eye patch, hook and pegleg sailing the PS3.

Couldnt of said it better myself. Fellow pirates, Rejoice!

[Glockstar]

Considering how many ps2s are out there, when these games stiff, that's really saying something.

We've got some real idiots here, and that's one thing that they always seem to forget: how many PS2s are out there. 100 million units shipped! (The Xbox and GameCube combined don't total over 50 million!)

Those numbers tell you everything you need to know about the videogame sales charts. It explains why so many PS2 titles - or versions of multi-platform titles - top the charts. And it explains why the system gets so much backing, gamewise.

If you were a publisher or developer, you'd be a fool to not do a PS2 version of your game. In fact, I'm surprised Nintendo and MS don't! I'm joking, of course, but at the same time I'm not. But seriously, this is why the PS2 gets all the games: 100 million units shipped! It's not because PS2 owners are smarter or have better taste or support niche/innovative games better - Gadfly, you #@$%ing idiot - in fact, if anything, it's probably the opposite that's true. Again, look at the sales charts.

Now back in line to what you were saying, Wacko...

Amplitude... Dark Cloud 2... Drakan: The Ancient Gates... EyeToy blah-blah... FantaVision... Frequency... Genji: Dawn of the Samurai... ICO... Parappa The Rapper 2... Rise of the Kasai... The Mark of Kri...

... none of these Sony published games ever made it to Greatest Hits. (I mention these games specifically for a reason...)

(Neither did: Disgaea... Culdcept... Contra... Gitaroo-Man... Gradius... R-Type... Rez... Phantum Brave... ...Gadfly, there are more than 60 million PS2s in North America alone... and these games still can't get over 300k sold?! What does your fatmouth have to say about that? Don't you have anything to say? I mean, are you gonna get rid of your PS2 now? Dumas.)

Furthermore, slade... wait, first off, you've been getting wacky with your sales numbers lately. Specifically with what you think consitutes good sales. Look, a million is a lot! There are not that many games that top 500k - let alone a million. (Let alone 5 million!) Sony published a lot of games for the P2. A LOT. Over 100. At least. Well, I can guarantee you that their sports games (just because you don't play them doesn't mean they don't count); their licensed crap (like the Jet-Li and Disney games); their RPG's; their eyetoy games, and a lot of their other diverse/niche titles did not sell a million! Shoot, I doubt if the J&D and R&C sequels even sold much more 500k. But they don't need too. They keep making the sequels - and all those sports games - because they sell enough. Games don't have to sell a million copies each to make money. 400k is good. So yeah, in a way you're right, Sony makes a decent profit off of their games. But you're flippin' whacked on the numbers.

(And again, 400k is a lot easier to achieve when you have a user base of 60 million, as opposed to 25 million. Or to put it another way: the bet's a lot safer. Comprende? )

-

Regarding Sony's online plans:

The PS2 is such a casual system. You ever wonder why there are hardly any PS2 supporters (aka milk-drinkers) that post here in SW? I mean, again, there are over 60 million PS2's in N.A... so where is the representation?! We're never gonna see any, because most people buy a PS2 for Madden... or for Spiderman... or for Grand Theft Auto... and that's it. (Again, look at the sales charts!) Multi-plats all of them! They're not interested in a whole lot of games beyond those obvious-in-your-face games, and they're definitely not interested in talking about games. They're casual. The PS2 is like kleenex see: when you think of tissue, you think of Kleenex - when the casual gamer thinks of a videogame system, they think of Playstation. Well, Sony better set up their online program like AOL or these dumbies won't get it. Xbox owners are a lot more hardcore. And a lot more, oh how can I put this delicately... wealthy. Or maybe I should say that the Xbox userbase is just older. (That's a fact.) The Xbox camp is comprised of the majority of hi-def tv owners and hi-speed internet subscribers. Xbox Live is super easy, but that's not a reflection on the Xbox userbase, that's a reflection on Microsoft. Sony best copy MS and XL exactly. They let each of the game companies do their own thing and the Sony Network will be a constant revolving door of casual gamers.

Not that Sony would care. But the gamers might. Then again... probably not; as evidenced right here hardly anybody plays their PS2 online. Why not?

-

Here endeth the :rant:

[folken001]

Sony routinely cracks a million units with 1st party titles?! I think you're cracked. Maybe for big ass franchises like GT and Socom, but the rest of it isn't flying off store shelves even at $39.99 price points. I don't remember Jak X combat racing, R&C Deadlocked or Sly 3 being mega hits. I must have missed the memo on those games cracking the million mark. Oh, sure they eventually crack a mil, when sony dumps down to $20. I guess sony's sports offerings kick EA's butt. And I guess it was my imagination, when titles like Dark Cloud 2, Rise of the Kasai, and Getaway: Black Monday stiffed. Considering how many ps2s are out there, when these games stiff, that's really saying something.
Hello!? Memory card anybody? I suppose 100+ million of PS2 users save their files on a white piece of paper.

Ok ok, I got lv 20 today, let me write it down so I can resume it tomorrow?

[slade]

Sony routinely cracks a million units with 1st party titles?!

First and third party both.

I think you're cracked. Maybe for big ass franchises like GT and Socom, but the rest of it isn't flying off store shelves even at $39.99 price points.

You silly willy, at the beginning of this generation, when Sony was losing money on consoles sold, did Jak not sell one million units? Did Ratchet not do the same? Hell, even Twisted Metal Black made it. Now, obviously sales degeneration will set in as the generation continues and more games in the series come out. However, when PS3 gets here, we're getting new franchises from proven developers. Games like I-8, Heavenly Sword, Warhawk -- well that last one is not really new but it might as well be.

[Gadfly2317]

(Neither did: Disgaea... Culdcept... Contra... Gitaroo-Man... Gradius... R-Type... Rez... Phantum Brave... ...Gadfly, there are more than 60 million PS2s in North America alone... and these games still can't get over 300k sold?! What does your fatmouth have to say about that? Don't you have anything to say? I mean, are you gonna get rid of your PS2 now? Dumas.)


What were we talking about? I don't even know. Glad to see you can list some games I think are cool.

Whatever it was you were trying to illustrate, basically, yes, the big titles are something else. I'm not gonna get rid of my Ps2 because it gets blockbuster stuff all the time like God of War, but great niche stuff like Guitar Hero.

I've never said the niche games should be million sellers: they just make a well rounded console.

Seriously, I'm just confused by your entire post, and not sure how my Ps2 tastes got dragged into whatever your point was. I'm not ragging on you, just maybe you could clarify. Thanks.