GRAW Review

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

From IGN

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/694/694274p1.html

[Darwin]

I played through the training and first missions ... so far, it's quite impressive. There also looks to be a lot of multiplayer modes, including tons of coop modes (just like the previous Ghost Recons).

It's something to get used to, since there is a lot more information on your HUD. There is more team management than Ghost Recon 2. Less fighing yourself and more management. And in some ways it's a little like Full Spectrum Warrier in that you tell you guys where to go and they properly line up under cover. They even do that thing where they line up on the wall and the point man checks around the corner, just like in Full Spectrum Warrier.

[Fivespot]

I played through the training mission twice on 'select a mission' not campaign. It was funny or not so funny I guess when I got to the end of the training mission and it froze with a 'press b to go back' as the only available option the screen. Pressed it and bam, back to the beginning. Thought it froze.!? Played again and same thing. Then I realized that I wasn't playing campaign :(

At least I got lots of training and now I have to play it a third time in campaign mode.

You're right about the HUD. A ton is on the screen and it takes some getting used to. Back to playing again.......

[Darwin]

Right now I am stuck at the start of mission 2, on Hard mode. It's when you're in the Huey, manning that minigun. The problem is that it only takes one shot from the enemy to kill you, and your pilot isn't circling around fast enough, making you an easy target. I've tried about 20 times with no success.

It wouldn't be so bad if the checkpoint started you right at the beginning of the action. Instead, you get restarted about 30 seconds before anything happens. So, it's annoying waiting to get back into the action.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I was looking to get this game, but my local Gamestop was sold out. :(

I probably won't have the opportunity to pick this one up until a few months down the road.

[Darwin]

I was looking to get this game, but my local Gamestop was sold out. :(

I probably won't have the opportunity to pick this one up until a few months down the road.

Tons of them are on ebay, some for only $50

[Darwin]

BTW, you cannot unlock achievements by playing an individualized mission from the mission select mode.

I.e. if you are playing through the campaign on Normal mode and then want to get the achievements for Hard mode, you have to make a new save game and start the campaign from the beginning on Hard mode. You can still access your Normal mode save game, but the two saves will be kept seperate from each other.

I think this is because the campaign is continuous from mission to mission. I.e. if you lose a soldier in mission 1, you continue with mission 2 without him. You also keep whatever health you had at the end of last mission. As opposed to playing an individualized mission where you start off with perfect health and all your teamates.

As Fiveski and I have discovered, this also applies to the training mission. You cannot get the training acheivement by selecting it as an individualized mission. you have to start a new campaign.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I think this is because the campaign is continuous from mission to mission. I.e. if you lose a soldier in mission 1, you continue with mission 2 without him. You also keep whatever health you had at the end of last mission. As opposed to playing an individualized mission where you start off with perfect health and all your teamates.

I remember in GR2, as soon as one of your crew were lost, it's game over. I'm glad they changed it. When can you get the fallen soldier back in the group?

Last time I checked, Gamestop is supposed to sell used copies of GRAW for $45 whenver they have some trade-ins. With the few games I have coming out very soon, I'll get it from there during those slow gaming months when I want something good to play.

[Fivespot]

As Fiveski and I have discovered, this also applies to the training mission. You cannot get the training acheivement by selecting it as an individualized mission. you have to start a new campaign.

Thanks goodness - thought I was the only one to make that mistake :)

It's tricky though since the game defaults you to mission select rather than a new campaign when you first choose to play campaign mode.

I'm at the end of the first mission at the moment; with the black hawk helicoptor trying to land but first I have to take out all of the ground troops. Although I'm not very far, I'm enjoying the hell out of this game.

I've been saying this forever and unfortunately it's still somewhat true - I don't have much experience with these types of tactical soldier games, but I'm hoping to change all of that by playing through this gem. The last game like this I enjoyed was the first Brothers in Arms. I'm more excited by this one however due to the many, many more online options, the coop modes, the graphics/gameplay improvements for this gen, etc....

[ThaMaskedGamer]

I started on Normal mode cause I figured the controls would be intensive. Then I started a new campaign last night on hard mode, i'm glad i did it that way, now the controls feel real comfy.

I gotta say when the game really starts it is really impressive, end of story. After you reach Ramirez and they give you control over the Blackhawk, my gosh I almost sh!t my pants. I had the Blackhawk engage the enemy inside that fenced in area, came back to the real-time visuals and i was just shocked to actually look up and see the Blackhawk gettin BUSY! Blowin ship up, then there were a few stragglers left over, so I had the chopper hover over the area and pick them off. Then I moved my team in and up the stairs, AWESOME. Then a few guys popped out and we took them down no problem.

I felt COD2 was so impressive, how could it get better. Now this comes along. I like the feeling of this, it feels more physical. COD2 still had that traditonal FPS floaty feeling, also FPS traditionally have moved too fast and the combat always took place too close. In this game you engage targets so far out you can barely see them. I was able to pull of some flanking moves and get some close up action. But mostly it was far away. And there is absolutely no running out in the open bullshyat, because finally in a game you run at a relatively normal speed and not like the FLASH.

The start of mission 2 in the chopper took me 3 tries. I think what you have to do is prevent the gun from overheating(they admitted they threw this in, in real life the gun wouldn't over heat). The basic idea is to keep it in the yellow, you wanna try and supress over the enemy and not really target the individually. The first two times I was individually targeting and also letting the gun get into the red. The third time I supressed over the enemy troops(still ended up killing them) which I think prevents them from really aiming. Anyway, when you get near the LZ, you gotta take out some vehicles too, concentrate on them first(obvious) and then the troops last.

Well, I think it safe t say, 360 is HERE baby. As of right now there is absolutely no more validity to the argument. GRAW isn't on the PC yet, and it came to 360 first. The other console versions are completely different games. Then end of month Oblivion will be here. Finally I feel normal, in that I have far too many games than I have time to play, just like the old days of XBOX, just like I said I wouldn't do. I have FN3, Kameo, PGR3, and now GRAW, then in a few weeks Oblivion. After Oblivion i'm not buying ANYTHING!

[Darwin]

The start of mission 2 in the chopper took me 3 tries. I think what you have to do is prevent the gun from overheating(they admitted they threw this in, in real life the gun wouldn't over heat). The basic idea is to keep it in the yellow, you wanna try and supress over the enemy and not really target the individually. The first two times I was individually targeting and also letting the gun get into the red. The third time I supressed over the enemy troops(still ended up killing them) which I think prevents them from really aiming. Anyway, when you get near the LZ, you gotta take out some vehicles too, concentrate on them first(obvious) and then the troops last.

!

Thanks for the tip. Yeah, I was focused too much on targetting each individual enemy I forgot about the effect of suppression.

[Mochan]

So what's the scoop from you guys? How was it? I have to wait like two more months to play this so I'll just drool on your stories for the meantime.

I'd like to get input on how the tactical combat works, and on how the "one shot one kill" mechanic has survived.

Somehow right now I"m not too happy to be hearing about these "gunner" missions, in my opinion these have no place in a Ghost Recon game. GR has always been about VAST maps with total freedom to approach the mission however which way you want. It's about commanding your squads (plural) on the fly to choke off the enemy and catch them unawares as you blip in from the wilderness into the fight, and back, and picking your shots with tactical precision rather than run and gun. GR was also all about sniping; CQB was avoided as much as possible since the advantage was yours with sniping and flitting in and out unseen.

The Urban setting makes it feel more like a Rainbow Six game, but that's all good if the expansiveness of the maps are intact, making for considerable sniping tactics, and the squad control still works.

From what I've read though you only have one squad?

[ThaMaskedGamer]

<b>So what's the scoop from you guys? How was it? I have to wait like two more months to play this so I'll just drool on your stories for the meantime. </b>
Well i'm on to my fourth mission I think, the game is so seamless its hard to tell when you change levels. The first question to answer I guess, is this truly nextgen? Definitely, the game is new and refreshing, at least for consoles. So the gameplay is new, and the visuals, needless to say are completely nextgen. There is NO WAY this could be done on XBOX.
<b>
I'd like to get input on how the tactical combat works, and on how the "one shot one kill" mechanic has survived. </b> The game has been simplified. When you get a team, you can select what type of soldiers to accompany you, rifleman, grenadier, and machine gunner. So if you wanted to you could select 3 grenadiers. Then you select your primary weapon, thus far, your secondary weapon and grenades options are always the same, a basic side-arm pistol(over 240 rounds), and 6 frags and 6 smokes. The primary guns are basically all future weapons, but more or less the same as current gen guns. You got sniper rifles, you got assault rifles with small scoping, assault rifles/grenade launcher combo(this gun has no scope), then heavy machine guns. Let me tell you, you get use to that scope, I switched to an assault/grenade launcher combo and it was tough to target the enemy.

Speaking of targeting the game hasn't changed here. In GR there is no down-the-barrel gun view. Basically if you use first person mode all you get is the targeting reticule. If you use over the shoulder you see your guy waist-up and the reticule. Those, like myself, use to traditional first person shooters may feel disoriented at first. You may also feel like you don't have control over aiming, except when you zoom. After a while it ends up feeling realistic because you it makes you see that combat isn't about placing a dot on a target. It makes weapon use and selection matter. You aren't going to hit a marksmen before he hits you if he is in a hi-rise tower and you are using iron sights. This also works in reverse I had a sniper rifle and guys came around the corner, basically they over-ran me cause my gun was too cumbersome, I did the part again using my pistol and capped them all. Also, you do a lot of peeking around corners and shooting, if you want to get the drop on the enemy, forget about using a long-rifle, cause the animation makes you take aim and it takes longer with a long rifle, so I switch to the Nina and bust around corners.

Tactically the game is a mix. In the City it is great. You either are alone, or get a team, or get a team and some armor, or a team and some air support. So you can have two teams, only the 2nd team will always be a vehicle never another squad of soldiers. This all works very well, oh I forgot you can also get a remote control spy hovercraft, which can fly through the city and give you visuals. It all works great. You can target enemies in your display screen, switch back and actually see your chopper going to work. You can use the armor for cover, or just let the armor do most of the work if you want. But you can only get so far with this strategy, eventually you gotta get busy.

You cannot set way points, so basically you get a go to command, attack one unit command, or regroup on me command. You can tell your troops to recon, they basically just defend and stay under cover, or assault they stay close but freelance and attack at will, but will get sloppy.

The AI and control does have its disadvantages, I'm learning, so the game is far from perfect. Once I wanted to hit a guy at long-range, but I had an assault rifle. I wanted my sniper to individually take down the target, but all you get is a group command, so they all opened fire. The target was in-range of all of their weapons, if it had of been far out then only the sniper would have fired, if it had of been light-armor, then only the grenadier, but basically if the target is in range of everybody the whole squad will fire. If your troops or vehicles can't hit a target they let you know and remain in their current position.

The first few city missions the game is stellar, a perfect 10 in my opinion. But as soon as the night missions cropped up, the game became less fun. First visually its just not the same because you can't see anything, I know thats not the games fault, its just reality, but it still kinda sucks. The night vision is horrible because it is super blurry. Also, the night missions moved away from the city, so far, and you are in remote semi-jungle areas attacking bases, its just not as fun as the city and I find myself just trying to get through and hoping I get back to the city. I finished one night raid, and was horrified the mission continued, then it continued again, and again. I'm attacking a castle and I hope this is the last objective in this mission. Also, the mission eventually drops you off solo, and solo taking on the world never really turns me on. So again, day time one of the most stellar games I've played, night time, just average so far.

<b>
Somehow right now I"m not too happy to be hearing about these "gunner" missions, in my opinion these have no place in a Ghost Recon game. GR has always been about VAST maps with total freedom to approach the mission however which way you want. It's about commanding your squads (plural) on the fly to choke off the enemy and catch them unawares as you blip in from the wilderness into the fight, and back, and picking your shots with tactical precision rather than run and gun. GR was also all about sniping; CQB was avoided as much as possible since the advantage was yours with sniping and flitting in and out unseen.</b> Yes the gunner missions. Basically I look at the gunner missions as almost like a loading screen game, that just happens to look totally bad-azz. Of course you know the game tries to be persistent, with no loading screens, and a continous city yadda yadda yadda, well what happens when you need to go from one part of the city to the other, you get picked up in a chopper. Sometimes, twice thus far, you gotta clear the LZ manning gunner position in the chopper. They are not easy missions, thankfully, the game saves immediately after you finish them so that if you get killed later in the mission after you land, you don't have to do that again. Visually they are cool, but not really much fun.

As far as vast maps, yes the maps are vast, even when they artificially enclose you, you are still operating in vast areas, with many different avenues to even avoid enemy troops if you want. Tactically you can take any approach you want. You can leave your troops in one position, and go up in a building or a highway over-pass and snipe, while they ground fight. You can do most of the fighting, or put your troops in the front. Because you don't have way-points though tactically the game does have the same command variability, but because of the city you actually have more ways to engage the enemy.

The jungle fighting so far is not present. Even the night missions you basically walk through the forest and attack a base or power plant. Mexico City is well a city so i think people know going in this is a different kind of game. But it is not inside buildings, so its not quite CQ combat a la Rainbow. You still mostly engage the enemy at long-distances, a city block away, you can barely see them. Some times you get a lot closer. I don't mind the changes because people kill developers if they make the same game, then kill them if they don't. So some people will like the changes some won't.

One shot one kill is no joke. I only played one mission on normal mode so i don't know how that works, I never got shot. But I started the game again on hard after learning the controls, I didn't get shot for a while, but when you do, its a wrap. You really don't even know where you get laced, it doesn't seem to matter. But one shot and its over. Your guys though actually can get hit a few times, but you can't on hard mode. If your guys go down, you can heal them or a teammate if even the command, you get a certain amount of time or else they are gone for the rest of the mission. Your Recon Droid can get blasted too, when you go into detect mode, it lowers its altitude if the mexicans see it they open fire on it, so you gotta raise it back up and get it out of there before it gets smoked.

I lost a chopper one time, I have yet to lose armor. Our armor seems to be impervious to theirs, although I once used my troops to tack down a tank because I knew the tank woulda killed my armor. Having a chopper on your side is just so damn cool, especially when its an apache. The game is very cinematic, you can be walking somewhere and a whole building will blow up, troops come outta no where on foot and in trucks, you have to take cover and protect assets. The game works really well, and as long as there aren't many more night missions i'd give the game about a 92%, and that is without even having looked at the multiplayer aspects which can only make the game better.
<b>
The Urban setting makes it feel more like a Rainbow Six game, but that's all good if the expansiveness of the maps are intact, making for considerable sniping tactics, and the squad control still works.</b> Well the game doesn't feel like Rainbow, trust me, you aren't storming rooms or even inside at all. But it does feel different, it is urban combat. From your questions I would recommend that you let go of your expectations and just take the game for what it is, otherwise if you are expecting a traditional GR game you'll be disappointed in that sense, but I find it hard to think anyone overall would be disappointed with it, if you are a military shooter fan. The game is hard. I went a while with no problems, then the 2nd gunner mission gave me fits, and then some of the night missions gave me troubles. Its one shot one kill, your movements are relatively slow, so you can just hit a button and throw a grenade. You have to put your weapon away, grab the grenade, then pull the trigger. So if you(not u personally) don't like 'em with a heavy dose of reality be warned its not Halo, its not even COD2. Already though LIVE is lit up with people playing this game, its almost like Halo2 where you logged on and everybody on your list is playing it. Just about the only people on my list not playing it were people on old XBOXes.

Well, I know this is long, but you said you wanted some info, so you should be able to chew on that for a while before the PC version comes out. I'll post anything else significant I run into.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I'll post anything else significant I run into.

Good info. I have one question. When you were playing on Normal, were there still one-shot kills on your character, or your squadmates?

[Mochan]

Well, I'll tell you guys if it's new and refreshing on the PC two months later. The visuals from the look of it are just the next step from today's PC games, so no biggie, but I'll have to see it myself to really judge. Not to say it doesn't look good, the screens are gorgeous.

In the original GR you could also choose the soldier type of your men (and the ghost you control) and choose your primary, I'm a bit miffed though that your secondary and extra equipment are locked in. Scope usage is cool; that's what I want and that what I always loved from GR games. GR has always been about mid to long range combat for me, with occasional CQB skirmishes.

Having no gun down the barrel view is fine for me. I have no qualms with it and I never felt like I lost control. It's all good, and I appreciate the extra screen real estate that I see. Needing to peek around is all good, we all used to do that in the original GR when in urban environments.

The team command options are totally not Ghost Recon, but sound like some Brothers in Arms mechanic. Well I guess I can live with that, BIA's team command was not half bad.

I'm surprised that you hate the night missions; in Ghost Recon 1 the night missions were the best part of the game.

I'm glad the expansiveness and non-linearity of the missions are there; those were the heart and soul of Ghost Recon. I'm a bit miffed though that jungle combat isn't there; wilderness combat was also the other heart of Ghost Recon. GR was all about wilderness, balanced out by Rainbow Six which was all about Urban. I have to say I'm a bit disappointed that this iteration of Ghost Recon is no longer the case, but of course once I get the game and see how it works I could easily be won over.

[Darwin]

Good info. I have one question. When you were playing on Normal, were there still one-shot kills on your character, or your squadmates?

Very rarely. Only if it was a direct headshot. Your squadmates seem pretty resiliant as well.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Very rarely. Only if it was a direct headshot. Your squadmates seem pretty resiliant as well.

Cool. Thanks. Now I think I can really enjoy this game whenever I get it.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Well I'm pretty far into the game, I think on the 5th or 6th mission. The game is like two sides of a coin one side, completely bad-azz the other frustrating as hell. Unfortunately this is one of those games where it will thoroughly more enjoyable the 2nd time through, because when you understand what you have to do its like, dohhhhhh!

First before I get to the tips just some info when the night missions start, get ready for some frustration. It is just a long section of the game and honestly I couldn't wait to get done with it, it just wasn't fun. Most of it comes from the night vision. I don't think any game is fun where you have to remain in a blurry as hell nightvision mode for hours. Once it was over it was back to daylight and back to the fun.

<b>Now comes the spoilers</b>. There are a lot of little spots that are tricky. But the one likely to cause a lot of reloads, at least it did for me, is this section where you have to guard some tanks from incoming attack choppers. The game tells you to guard advance without the tanks and take down two incoming choppers. I tried this a million ways and actually took down one chopper several times, but I could never get the 2nd. Even when I took down one chopper my guys got shredded in the process. Then I thought wait a minute, this is a sim game, guys on the ground with light weapons taking on choppers is not the way to go. So I went into the base, your waypoint, but then you get shredded by two concrete watch towers overlooking each other both manned by guys and a .50 cal machine gun. As you approach one you get blasted from the back buy the other. So I thought this is just as hard taking on the chopper. But I knew I had to get up there and get that heavy MG to take-down the choppers. Anyway, I was able to hug the wall, and take-down one post, get up there, get my guys undercover, man the .50 cal and took the choppers down easily.

Now there is actually another way to do it also. At the beginning of the mission you can select that Anti-tank bazooka, forgot what its called. The only problem is you have no advance warning that you will need that weapon, and once you select your weapon at the beginning of a level, you can't change, even after you die, unless you restart the whole thing. Also, before you get to that point, you will need a rifle to get there. But it is still an alternative. Either way is gonna be kinda tricky. Good luck.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Well how's about some GRAW this weekend guys multiplayer. Last week Waco, myself and some other folks tested the multiplayer waters....come on guys put down Oblivion for a night!

By the way I finished the single player game on hard mode this game easily could have been a 10/10, as it is, i'd have to give it an 8/10. The framework and tangible aspects of the game are excellent, but 3 or 4 of the missions were just badly designed and not any fun. When you have something as beautiful fun and intense as the city fighting I don't know why they wanna take you out of that environment, especially for some non-tactical one player missions that just felt contrived and out of place.

Now that its over I can delve further into multiplayer, so far no complaints there, except they take away your ability to stick to walls(take cover) but they compensate by allowing you to lean left and right, it works almost the same, but I don't know why they took away the wall-cover ability. The other thing I noticed about multiplayer, or at least the co-op, we tried a variety of settings and I don't think the game is challenging enough, at least not for a experienced group of players.

Anyway, come on guys man cannot gameth on Oblivion and Oblivion alone!

[Glockstar]

Heh, I guess you and I are the only ones not playing Oblivion, TMG.

I've had GRAW since the first week of it's release, but for some reason or another have never even gotten around to cracking the plastic on it. I'm fi'in to within the hour tho'! ; )

(Sorry RBH, I know it's a couple of days later than what I said, but I had some issues with some of my new gear. For a hint as to what, read my sig. :mad: )

[theWacoKid]

I'm down for some mp this weekend. The single player campaign which I'm slowly working through is a mixed bag. I replay missions looking to get through them relativerly unscathed and with my guys in good shape which isn't always easy.

The AI is wildly inconsistent. I give orders to blow an armored vehicle and my grenadier does squat. At other times, my squad will take out an armored vehicle all on their own with no input from me. The AI is just all over the map. Even on the tactical map, the UAV drone will go off on its own. I'll lay down a marker and it just drifts on by the marker. Targets I"ve located will disappear instead of remaining located. Yikes! This game depite the delay is still on the rushed side. Not having the save anywhere feature can be frustrating, but in realty, the save anywhere feature was a crutch in the previous games.

When it all comes together, it works beautifully. I love having my guys fire from a cover position, draw fire from the enemy and then nail the enemy from behind.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

(Sorry RBH, I know it's a couple of days later than what I said, but I had some issues with some of my new gear. For a hint as to what, read my sig. :mad: )

It's cool. I went with the wrong trade in and had to redeem it, so I picked up GRAW, especially since I really wanted a shooter and I wasn't feeling the FPS on 360. So far, it's good, to the point where it won't be shelved when Legend comes out in 2 weeks.

[Glockstar]

Well, you might be liking it better than me.

I'm already pissed. I wanted to play this game in the first-person mode... but I can't get my guy to stick to the walls. And seeking cover is crucial here! That was one of the good things about PDZ - the cover tactic - where it switched to the 3rd-person when you sought cover. I can't beleive Ubi-Soft didn't think to implement something like that! So when I'm in FP, I can crouch and go prone, but I can't seem to do any of the other manuevers that I could when in 3P.

Am I wrong here; am I missing something?! Or do I really have to play this game in the 3rd-person?!

[theWacoKid]

Go third person. The cover tactics are much better implemented here than in PDZ and are absolutely indespensible. Shooting out in the open is a sure way to get killed. Bang, head shot, done.