Rainbow 6 Lockdown dont bother

[BaneNWN]

What a pile of junk.Ive seen enough from the demo and from what ive seen the modders will not even beable to fix this pile of trash.

The good:
Graphics upgrade looks excellent.
The new thermal and night vision looks nice.

The bad:
A linear Rainbow 6 game??You got it they turned it into a straight shooter.
No alternate paths, straight forward. heck Halflife 2 was even less linear then this trash.
When you throw a grenade now they give you a friggen cursor to show you where it will land??If that doesnt give it away as being a console port nothing does.
Probably the most ridiculous thing is zoning from one area to the next you get a load screen how pathetic.
Enemy AI is alot worse then Ravenshield.This game was made for straight shooter fans.Theres absolutley no stealth in this game period.Its a joke and the most dissapointing game in years for me.This game is even worse then Ghost Recon 2.Considering Lockdown will be out in about 4 weeks im pretty sure the demo will be what ya get in the end.I will not buy this game unless theres some serious modding going on.Gets a big fat 1/5 from me and im usually pretty easy on games.Id give it a 0 if i could.

[BaneNWN]

I blame this type of crap on the original splinter cell selling so well.I guess they figured they could make games linear and still sell them since the overrated crap of splinter cell seemed to sell well.

[Mochan]

Oh man, that;s just sad. I guess I will just wait for Ghost Recon.

[BaneNWN]

Oh man, that;s just sad. I guess I will just wait for Ghost Recon.

Wouldnt hold your breath for that either.Id be willing to bet there about done with the stealth in Ghost as well.Ghost 2 was crap and theres no reason to think 3 will be any better.

[Mochan]

Well worse comes to worst we can always keep playing Ravenshield. :)

[BaneNWN]

Oh i almost forgot you can now get shot between 6-10 times and still live.Nice to know we all have super human powers now.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

I blame this type of crap on the original splinter cell selling so well.I guess they figured they could make games linear and still sell them since the overrated crap of splinter cell seemed to sell well.

Yeah, but, like I've said before, Pandora Tomorrow, and specifically Chaos Theory reigns supreme for the current champs in the Stealth catagory. I'd play as Fisher over Garret any day... now. Having unconventional techniques that Fisher uses to attract/dispose of AI is what will always make Splinter Cell unique.

Whistling, throwing bottles, spy cameras, and snapping peoples necks while hanging above them are something that only this franchise contains, and to think that a SpecOps team would do the same isn't really fair to the Rainbow 6 series... though to be honest, I've never really been a fan of R6. I personally always thought it was a tad bit too clunky.

Ergo, without the "original" Splinter Cell, the current franchise wouldn't be as good as it is now. I personally have always prefered going alone into any environment in almost any game I play, and Thief, Splinter Cell, and Ghost Recon are configurable enought to allow you to do that. Having the option to do so is just great.

[BaneNWN]

Yeah, but, like I've said before, Pandora Tomorrow, and specifically Chaos Theory reigns supreme for the current champs in the Stealth catagory. I'd play as Fisher over Garret any day... now. Having unconventional techniques that Fisher uses to attract/dispose of AI is what will always make Splinter Cell unique.

Whistling, throwing bottles, spy cameras, and snapping peoples necks while hanging above them are something that only this franchise contains..

Ya but in the end Chaos Theory is pretty straight forward in itself as far as level design.Having played both chaos theory and Ravenshield sorry but Chaos Theory couldnt hold Ravenshields jockstrap.Especially the Ironwrath expansion.Try that once then tell me how great CT is.So what you can break peoples neck and throw them off cliffs?Try having an ememy AI run all the way across a map dodging behind boxes shooting at you well chasing you down.CT AI are retarted by comparison.Yea you get some bad ones but when you run into a good one he will chase you all the way across a map and when you think you have lost him he comesup behind ya and your toast.Just ask Aku about that.And level design while CT was pretty to look at it was boring and straightforward.Ravenshields maps not all great but the number of ways you can attack them are what really sets this apart from any of the other Tom Clancy games other then maybe Ghost Recon Ravenshield is the best of the bunch.I find it funny though that you do not consider Chaos Theory clunky its even more so then RS.

[DBS]

GFX score: 10041/CPU score: 9933 for Aquamark.

Ya, this one is a mess...darn it

[BaneNWN]

GFX score: 10041/CPU score: 9933 for Aquamark.

Ya, this one is a mess...darn it
WOW whats wrong with that??I only get about 8500 for both.My graphics card is capable of 10k+ but my cpu is holding it back unfortuneatly.Your system seems pretty well balanced to me.Its weird though that your GFX scored higher for aquamark but my 3dmark score was little higher then yours.Maybe Mochan can elaborate??Im lost

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Ya but in the end Chaos Theory is pretty straight forward in itself as far as level design.Having played both chaos theory and Ravenshield sorry but Chaos Theory couldnt hold Ravenshields jockstrap.Especially the Ironwrath expansion.Try that once then tell me how great CT is.So what you can break peoples neck and throw them off cliffs?Try having an ememy AI run all the way across a map dodging behind boxes shooting at you well chasing you down.CT AI are retarted by comparison.Yea you get some bad ones but when you run into a good one he will chase you all the way across a map and when you think you have lost him he comesup behind ya and your toast.Just ask Aku about that.And level design while CT was pretty to look at it was boring and straightforward.Ravenshields maps not all great but the number of ways you can attack them are what really sets this apart from any of the other Tom Clancy games other then maybe Ghost Recon Ravenshield is the best of the bunch.I find it funny though that you do not consider Chaos Theory clunky its even more so then RS.

You seem to be assuming I have never played Ravenshield. I have, and I found the AI to be too active. Not a bad game, just not as configurable as the other games out there. Having an AI "run" all the way across the map as you say, isn't brilliant, it's simply AI wall-hacking. There's nothing special in that at all Bane.

The AI is simply locating you through the walls and devises a path to get from its' location to the players'. No feats of computational magic there at all. You simply are hyping a typical moment from the game into something wonderful. It's hardly wonderful when you encounter the flawless hunter-killer routine again, and again, and again. Now if you want good AI, play Farcry. That has some serious strokes of genious behind the AI programming.

Simply because it's the latest and greatest game on your roster, doesn't mean it's the best game out of every Clancy game. Like I've said before, the AI cheats, and can shoot with ease through smokescreens, with unerring accuracy. Again, that's not brilliance, it's cheating. AI cheats are the worst, especially if you're primarily a single-player gamer (like me).

So what that you can throw people off of cliffs? So what?! Not too many games you can do that in if you ask me, and you're simply overlooking great gameplay elements in favour of cheaing AI and just another run-of-the-mill FPS. There's nothing great about Ravenshield. Your "multiple" pathways you claim Ravenshield has, are nothing more than two doors into a room! LOL You can't jump down hatches into a room, go through ductwork, or even through a broken window. And there certainly isn't any stealth elements in Ravenshield, not one iota. The AI will spot you in a heartbeat if you step out behind cover.

Oh, and if you think that Chaos Theory is straight-forward, you're on serious dope. I'll take two of what you're having. I suspect it's that hip drug new-game-of-the-week-euphoria-in-a-pill. I figured you'd try to bash CT as soon as you started complaining of no blood in the game. That was one of the weakest excuses I have heard in a long time... like there's oh-so-much blood and gore in Ravenshield. :rolleyes:

[BaneNWN]

You seem to be assuming I have never played Ravenshield. I have, and I found the AI to be too active. Not a bad game, just not as configurable as the other games out there. Having an AI "run" all the way across the map as you say, isn't brilliant, it's simply AI wall-hacking. There's nothing special in that at all Bane.

Whens the last time you played it??Before the first patch was released??You would be suprized how configurable Ravenshield is if you cared to even play it.When the AI chases you its because they spot you or hear you.If your quiet they dont come after you,maybe your version of the game was screwed up but the versions we all play now is great.When Aku got chased it was because he flew around a corner and got spotted then the AI took off after him in a dead sprint had nothing to do with any wall hack.Now ill admitt sometimes they get some cheap kills in but every game ever made has its flaws as far as the AI goes.But for the most part the AI is fair as long as your careful there managable.


Simply because it's the latest and greatest game on your roster, doesn't mean it's the best game out of every Clancy game. Like I've said before, the AI cheats, and can shoot with ease through smokescreens, with unerring accuracy. Again, that's not brilliance, it's cheating. AI cheats are the worst, especially if you're primarily a single-player gamer (like me).

Ive played RS on and off since its comeout ive always liked it.Its not just a game i said one week ill play it and claim it to be great.Ive always thought of it as a great game and much improved with the patches.Let me ask you why is an AI shooting through a smoke screen cheating??Especially in smaller quarters its not so out of the realm of getting hit and killed with a machine gun through a smoke screen it happens in real life.Smoke grenades are meant to conceal you but doesnt mean you wont be hit thats what gas grenades are for.Im pretty sure if i had a machine gun in my hand and someone threw a smoke grenade im pretty sure it wouldnt be to hard to spray your way and hit ya.

So what that you can throw people off of cliffs? So what?! Not too many games you can do that in if you ask me, and you're simply overlooking great gameplay elements in favour of cheaing AI and just another run-of-the-mill FPS. There's nothing great about Ravenshield. Your "multiple" pathways you claim Ravenshield has, are nothing more than two doors into a room! LOL You can't jump down hatches into a room, go through ductwork, or even through a broken window. And there certainly isn't any stealth elements in Ravenshield, not one iota. The AI will spot you in a heartbeat if you step out behind cover.

Run of the mill FPS??It all comes down to this me and others who have played together have played some of the maps 50 times or more and have yet to get sick of it.You know why??Because we can approach them different everytime.Can you say this about CT??No id play it twice and that would be it.Thing is ive played both games recently and i doubt you have touched RS in years to even comment on it.Not only that we have access to 500+ maps for RS and Ironwrath how many do you have for CT??What maybe a handful at most??Goodluck finding replay value with that.RS wide variety of maps as well close quarters to semi close quarters to sniper maps.Pick one youll find maps for all gameplay.Nice to because we got a free expansion called Ironwrath that adds 15+ new maps plus 5 new game modes and also a tweaked AI.


Oh, and if you think that Chaos Theory is straight-forward, you're on serious dope. I'll take two of what you're having. I suspect it's that hip drug new-game-of-the-week-euphoria-in-a-pill. I figured you'd try to bash CT as soon as you started complaining of no blood in the game. That was one of the weakest excuses I have heard in a long time... like there's oh-so-much blood and gore in Ravenshield.

Yes it is straight forward please do not claim different ive played it enough to know a difference.Theres still only one way in most places.By the way the realism mod we use for RS has realistic gore effects which isnt much to ask for when your suppose to be playing a fairly realistic game.Ya i *****ed about no blood in CT but thats not what made me quit playing it.I quit playing it because it felt like the original SC to me and i hated that game with a passion.Im not saying CT is a bad game in the least.Overrated yes by far it is but bad??no and i could actually see playing it online sometime but for a short spurt not like RS where i can play for months straight and not get bored with it.I never said RS was deffinetly the best game ever for the franchise i would put the original ghost recon in the same boat but Splinter Cell totally ruined the whole franchise as far as im concerned.I do not think its a coinsidence that Splinter Cell 1 comesout and shortley after we get a crap game like Ghost Recon 2 and now Lockdown are all turning into normal run of the mill shooters.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Splinter Cell was released AGES ago though Bane, not anywhere remotely near the release dates of GR2, or Lockdown. SC was a 2002 game IIRC. Oh, and you're confusing the Clancy game logo with "franchising". The Tom Clancy game logo, doesn't let you know that the games are contained within the same worlds of existence, but rather they are simply "endorsed", and/or created by Tom Clancy (more specifically Red Storm Entertainment- he's the CEO). It's nothing to do with franchises at all. Splinter Cell is in no means supposed to be like Rainbow 6, nor is Ghost Recon supposed to be like Splinter Cell. They just happen to be created and devised by Clancy.

Surely you can see that. Rainblow 6 1-4 is a franchise, Ghost Recon 1 and 2 is a franchise, just like Splinter Cell 1-3 is entirely its' own franchise. It's not like all the games are using the same engines, let alone tactics. You seem to be equating the fact that because Splinter Cell came out and sold so well, that's the reason why GR2 and Lockdown suck... Of course it has nothing to do with Ubisoft Montreals' great track records for making great games. But I suppose you didn't like Prince of Persia because there was no blood either though. :( Ironically enough they ALSO made Ravenshield. These guys know how to make their games, no doubt about it.

Your reasoning is vague at best. Regardless, I too hated Splinter Cell, and still dislike it to this day, but that doesn't stop me from saying that Pandora Tomorrow was better, and Chaos Theory reigns as champ for Stealth games... Like I'll concede that Ravenshield is the best out of the Rainbow 6 series, but that to me isn't saying much... I mean it's a fine shooter, but it doesn't do anything "new". SWAT 4 has more going for it than Ravenshield in terms of originality.

Actually, I WILL claim that Chaos Theory is NOT straight-forward, and I'll post level screens for the two games (RS and CT) proving each games' linearity. Then, I'll make you eat your words.

[DBS]

I will join in since I been playing alot of RS this last month. I will say that it is a game I have owned a longtime and after playing some of the single player ...it left me cold. Not that it was bad but it was nothing new and I just was not inspired with it. I nearly sold it a few times but then after I got into the multiplayer I found it to be one of the most fun games online. It and Swat 4 are similar but RS has so many more options for gamemodes, weapons and goodies and maps that is has become my favorite stealth shooter so far. This may change soon with the release of the Swat 4 expansion as that will add some of the things I miss when I play it. Night vision, more weapons, more maps and larger ones as well.

The Iron Wrath expansion for Rainbow 6 3 added better textures and smarter ai. We are now beating missions on elite....not always but it is happening more and more. SBS, I agree with you on the single player game but you should join us some night for some really fun multiplayer. Aku has been and hopefully Moya will soon. Speaking of that...where did you go Moya>?? Have not seen you lately.... :(

I can not knock SPlinter Cell as ..yes it is linear but I enjoyed it. I own PT and enjoy it and I can not comment on the multiplayer as so far I have yet to try it. I like the idea of throwing people from rooftops.....have to get CT later.

Oh and the realism mod does add some nice blood effects to RS. It was upsetting to see the next version is just a Xbox port. They should of started from scratch with the pc in mind.

I am beginning to think our best bet is to stick with Ghost Recon and get the expansions and RS with its expansion and forget the new Red Storm games. They have gone the console route and I figure they will not return to the pc for a longtime if ever. I do not play these games for my run and gun fun...and making them that sort of game adds them to what we have way too many of nowadays anyhow. Take what was special and make it mainstream and medocre...thanks UBISOFT and RED STORM for killing that IP. To be honest....I am alittle worried about the next Morrowind...hopefully they do not dumb it down too much !!

[BaneNWN]

Splinter Cell was released AGES ago though Bane, not anywhere remotely near the release dates of GR2, or Lockdown. SC was a 2002 game IIRC. Oh, and you're confusing the Clancy game logo with "franchising". The Tom Clancy game logo, doesn't let you know that the games are contained within the same worlds of existence, but rather they are simply "endorsed", and/or created by Tom Clancy (more specifically Red Storm Entertainment- he's the CEO). It's nothing to do with franchises at all. Splinter Cell is in no means supposed to be like Rainbow 6, nor is Ghost Recon supposed to be like Splinter Cell. They just happen to be created and devised by Clancy.

Surely you can see that. Rainblow 6 1-4 is a franchise, Ghost Recon 1 and 2 is a franchise, just like Splinter Cell 1-3 is entirely its' own franchise. It's not like all the games are using the same engines, let alone tactics. You seem to be equating the fact that because Splinter Cell came out and sold so well, that's the reason why GR2 and Lockdown suck... Of course it has nothing to do with Ubisoft Montreals' great track records for making great games. But I suppose you didn't like Prince of Persia because there was no blood either though. :( Ironically enough they ALSO made Ravenshield. These guys know how to make their games, no doubt about it.

Your reasoning is vague at best. Regardless, I too hated Splinter Cell, and still dislike it to this day, but that doesn't stop me from saying that Pandora Tomorrow was better, and Chaos Theory reigns as champ for Stealth games... Like I'll concede that Ravenshield is the best out of the Rainbow 6 series, but that to me isn't saying much... I mean it's a fine shooter, but it doesn't do anything "new". SWAT 4 has more going for it than Ravenshield in terms of originality.

Actually, I WILL claim that Chaos Theory is NOT straight-forward, and I'll post level screens for the two games (RS and CT) proving each games' linearity. Then, I'll make you eat your words.

ok you win.My assessment of CT could be off i did only play it for a half dozen hours or so.Maybe i should have reanalyzed what i was saying.The Multiplayer in RS atleast for me is up there at the top of the list as far as fun goes.It has a perfect blend of map sizes,run and gun and even know you will not admitt it,it does have some stealth in it as far as sneaking and not being heard.You cant just run and gun through a map but situations do comeup where it is best to do so.SWAT 4 fun game and even a great game IMO isnt as fun as RS online.For starters your limited to 5 and sometimes 5 is even to many for most maps they are mostley small and constricted.In RS theres so many maps and sizes you can play maps considering the size of your server.If we wanted 8-10 people playing theres maps suited to hold that many where as in swat 4 your stuck with mostley little maps that anymore then 5 would just be overload and way to easy to complete.Now the expansion is suppose to fix some of these issues will have to wait and see.Im not downing swat i do like the MP very much and the singleplayer is better IMO then any of the games mentioned above.

[Aku]

Yeah, RS and especially Iron Wrath is a lot harder than SWAT 4. The small maps and confined spaces make SWAT 4 missions much more manageable. On some of those Iron Wrath maps, your whole team can suddenly get swiss-cheesed in seconds. And the AI is crazy too. They won't hesiate to drop a grenade on you and blow themselves up with you, LOL. Now SWAT 4 deathmatch is fun. We should play that.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

I will join in since I been playing alot of RS this last month. I will say that it is a game I have owned a longtime and after playing some of the single player ...it left me cold. Not that it was bad but it was nothing new and I just was not inspired with it. I nearly sold it a few times but then after I got into the multiplayer I found it to be one of the most fun games online.

Yeah, I'm up for playing it for sure. I have played RS online quite a bit a few years ago when it first came out and enjoyed it... except for the fact that the enemy AI can snipe you through smokescreens. The patches now may have fixed that, but back then, it was a big turn off. As you found, I too found the single-player game severly lacking and have enjoyed so many more games than RS. Every time I played the game, I simply used the quick commands layout in order to jump into the game, fast. I could never be bothered with the tactical elements involved. I mean, I just want to play the game, not plan out some uber strategy that may or may not work.

I liked the game, but I take exception to the fact that Bane says that SCCT is linear when in fact it's not. I think I should know, I can't stand linear games. For the majority of my posts, I have been defending this position or correcting his perception of the word "franchise". SCCT offers a gamer many ways through a level, not just killing suspects (like RS), and in fact the weapon loadouts and statistics at the end of the levels speaks volumes. As per Thief, more objectives are added as well on higher difficulty levels in Chaos Theory (at least I assume so, I completed an objective that wasn't listed on my OPSAT).

In a linear game, you have one way of doing things, and one-way only. Generally, you're railed through the levels, with only enemies to kill. Doom 3 is linear, KotOR is linear, Splinter Cell is linear, Halo is linear and almost without exception all these games PC gamers feel are inferior.

In SCCT, you can sneak, assault, kill, knockout, go up walls, through ductwork, hide, grab peeps and use them as human shields, select weapon loadouts, use various gadgets to kill, maim, and disable, and so forth. That's only using the obvious paths through a level. There are many other ways now to gain access to buildings and around obstacles, you just need to find them. It's (again) far from linear... especially considering the first two games.

To boot, as lame as Splinter Cell was, the franchise is hardly to blame for all of the Tom Clancy games' ills. The publishers (Ubisoft) are most likely to blame for those shortcomings.

It's not about winning or losing Bane, it's about defending a position that I feel is right, while you're claiming I'm wrong. Nothing wrong with a little debating and sabre-rattling. Heh. Who knows, maybe I'm disappointed that I disappointed you? Recommended a game, and then you trash it and my opinion of it...

[DBS]

SBS, Check out the Iron Wrath expansion from Fileplanet for free. It adds some nice goodies although having to enter a key for a free add on is stupid imo.

Maybe join in for some GR soon too..I downloaded some mods and maps for that. Miss gaming with ya dude!

[BaneNWN]

If your serious about joining us SBS just say the word and ill link ya to all the downloads we currently run on he server.Ironwarth expansion pack is 1 gig but downloads in about 20 minutes for me, 195 mb mappack,patch to 1.60 and a realism mod that gets rid of the reticule and uses iron sites.were also going to download maps here and there.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Yeah, I may have a spot of trouble, I only have the "acquired" version of Ravenshield ATM. If I can find it new, I'll join with you guys.

[Mochan]

I've always been interested in Chaos Theory because I heard it fixed the problems I had with the first two games, and especially for the Mercs vs. Spies thing. Too bad Ubisoft has it and put Starforce on it, that drained a lot of my enthusiasm to buy it.

[DBS]

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/ref=br_ss_hs/104-0179975-3101577?platform=gurupa&url=index%3Dblended&field-keywords=ravenshield&Go.x=0&Go.y=0&Go=Go

Not bad prices for it. I may get the expansion for it as well..

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Yeah, thats the trouble, no CC.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

I've always been interested in Chaos Theory because I heard it fixed the problems I had with the first two games, and especially for the Mercs vs. Spies thing. Too bad Ubisoft has it and put Starforce on it, that drained a lot of my enthusiasm to buy it.

Oh yeah, it's a dandy. I'll be playing this sucker through a few times thats for sure.