Perfect Dark Zero to be downgraded

[Mochan]

Looks like Rare was feeling the pressure of the deadline, because they just couldn't get things to work on time.

http://www.pro-g.co.uk/news/nid/751/1546/
"An article in the November issue of Edge magazine has revealed that the fifty-player online multiplayer mode promised for Perfect Dark Zero has been scaled down to only 32. While still impressive, the news is a little disappointing. Rare has also had to remove the DataDyne TV mode which would have allowed players to watch games and upload your best matches. The cutbacks have had to be made to get the game ready for the Xbox 360 launch."

More distressing is:
"According to Rare the fifty-player online mode and the TV mode could both be added via a download over Xbox Live."

Already we are seeing the evil fingers of The Patch Mentality which has plagued the PC world for more than a decade. Under this mentality, developers get lazy and cut corners releasing a product that is incomplete, rationalizing it away with the notion that "we can always release a patch later on to fix it."

Thank you Microsoft for bringing the headaches of the PC world to the console world.

And yet, not matching PC standards! 64 player multiplayer is already available on the PC! And for free! Further, there are some games like Planetside that have thousands of player online at the same time for a shooter. For shame, for shame.



In other news, I saw the 360 trailer for Call of Duty 2 shown at TGS and the framerate was all over the place. It was not unlike the framerate for the hi-res Stalker trailer for PC released a few months back. Releasing a trailer with such poor framerate is truly poor taste; while we know that the 360 can support graphics at fast framerates (as evidenced by other trailers like DOA4) I think a lot developers are being rushed by the launch date a little too much, such that they can't optimize their games properly on such short notice.

[trebor]

All the videos I've seen of Gears of War looked pretty dang choppy as well.

Maybe M$'s strategy is to just release whatever they can, in whatever condition it is, and come out with the more fully developed games later. Which I suppose is similar to the patching mentality you're speaking of.

[Gadfly2317]

A game should be released when its ready, not just to meet some hokey deadline. If you've worked on a game for 3 years, all three years are wasted if the game is crap when another six months could have made it first rate.

That's like Nintendo's prez is on record saying he's pushing Miyamoto to have the new Mario game ready for the Rev launch; but admitting that realistically the game will only be released whenever its properly done.

MS over and over demonstrates contempt for games and gamers.

[trebor]

MS over and over demonstrates contempt for games and gamers.

M$ over and over demonstrates contempt for consumers in general, IMHO.

Windows is the worst operating system on the planet, yet because of some strategic positioning in the 80's, almost 97% of the modern technological world thinks they can't live without it, glitches, bugs, and security holes and all.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Looks like Rare was feeling the pressure of the deadline, because they just couldn't get things to work on time.

http://www.pro-g.co.uk/news/nid/751/1546/


More distressing is:


Already we are seeing the evil fingers of The Patch Mentality which has plagued the PC world for more than a decade. Under this mentality, developers get lazy and cut corners releasing a product that is incomplete, rationalizing it away with the notion that "we can always release a patch later on to fix it."

Thank you Microsoft for bringing the headaches of the PC world to the console world.

And yet, not matching PC standards! 64 player multiplayer is already available on the PC! And for free! Further, there are some games like Planetside that have thousands of player online at the same time for a shooter. For shame, for shame.



In other news, I saw the 360 trailer for Call of Duty 2 shown at TGS and the framerate was all over the place. It was not unlike the framerate for the hi-res Stalker trailer for PC released a few months back. Releasing a trailer with such poor framerate is truly poor taste; while we know that the 360 can support graphics at fast framerates (as evidenced by other trailers like DOA4) I think a lot developers are being rushed by the launch date a little too much, such that they can't optimize their games properly on such short notice.

Yadda Yadda Yadda. A patch is when you have to download a fix when the game is broken like Ea had to do with BO3's live functionality. Adding more features later is not a patch. And hell probably 80% of the people who are going to play the game didn't even know about these features. And lets be realistic here every single game that's released across any platform have feaures that's left on the cutting room floor most times they are usually just added to the sequeal but being that these features are online features I see know problem at all getting them later with a download.

When has any platform ever launched without devs being squeezed for time. It's par the course for buisness but somehow it's more evil MS.

Gadfly get some new material please!

[Mochan]

Maybe it's the Japanese devs who are industrious enough to get the frame rate on track? Gears of War, CoD2, etc. these are American devs. Well whatever. Regardless they have two months to fix the framerate up to avoid an embarassing release. It must suck to work in those companies these days, the crunch time must be horrendous.


That's like Nintendo's prez is on record saying he's pushing Miyamoto to have the new Mario game ready for the Rev launch; but admitting that realistically the game will only be released whenever its properly done.

MS over and over demonstrates contempt for games and gamers.

This is PC mentality MS is bringing over. One thing I loved about consoles over PCs was how this mentality was never around. On consoles, a game comes out when it's ready to come out, not before. On the PC, it is not uncommon for publishers to push games out the door incomplete. Just this year this happened with Boiling Point and Dungeon Lords. Last year with Vampire Bloodlines. And many, many times more over the past decade.

I mean, you know a game is incomplete when it is released with an Automap button in the interface, but when you click it nothing happens!

Windows is the worst operating system on the planet, yet because of some strategic positioning in the 80's, almost 97% of the modern technological world thinks they can't live without it, glitches, bugs, and security holes and all.

Amen. Bugs, glitches, security holes, and a monster of resource hogging. I've always said PC graphics are better than console graphics but this is simply due to raw overpowering hardware; realistically the hardware should be capable of a lot more if the software OS didn't eat up so many resources and act like a pig; back in the days of DOS PC hardware was made full use of even if the lack of standardization hurt.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

This is PC mentality MS is bringing over. One thing I loved about consoles over PCs was how this mentality was never around. On consoles, a game comes out when it's ready to come out, not before. On the PC, it is not uncommon for publishers to push games out the door incomplete. Just this year this happened with Boiling Point and Dungeon Lords. Last year with Vampire Bloodlines. And many, many times more over the past decade.



Unlike on a console when a game has bugs and glitches you are stuck with them forever. And with some games GTA you are stuck with those bugs over a series of games. Or Even worst with a game like GT they release a fix version of the game but if you bought the old one you are out of luck. Or lets not even get into the sports game with out of whack rosters that if it wasn't for the patches (roster updates) you would be stuck with for the whle season unless you went in and fixed every thing manually. I've played numerous buggy games for consoles that had no hope of being fixed. The console gamer just had to deal with it unlike PC gamers who could demant a patch. Was Enter the Matrix finished? Was Driver 3? I could go on for days.

[Fivespot]

It must suck to work in those companies these days, the crunch time must be horrendous.

No Doubt. And I thought my job was stressful - I can't imagine all the OT and headaches these folks put in to get games finished on time. NO THANKS

Ahh, a positive perspective to help me get through another long day :)

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

EDIT: Why is my post above the one I responded too.




It's evil when MS does it because other console makers aren't using online as a crutch for this kind of mentality. Hopefully this does not change; it only takes one bad apple to get the ball rolling. If MS sets a precedent for it and consumers don't mind, we may yet see other developers do the same.

Well what is it when Sony promises online for GT4 then says later in an update then cancels it all together?

[Mochan]

Yadda Yadda Yadda. A patch is when you have to download a fix when the game is broken like Ea had to do with BO3's live functionality. Adding more features later is not a patch.
...

When has any platform ever launched without devs being squeezed for time. It's par the course for buisness but somehow it's more evil MS.

Gadfly get some new material please!

Assuming the "extra features" are launched. There are numerous cases of PC games which were supposed to have online capabilities shafted, and promises of these capabilities added later on in a patch. A good deal of them never materialize. This happened with Heroes of Might and Magic 4 (the Online button was there in the menu! But it never did anything).

Fortunately in this case with MS backing Rare, they will probably have to release the patch or else, but it's still a headache and a portent of things to come. Mark my words, call me doomsayer but this is not a good thing.

And it's a patch. You can call it whatever you want but in game terminology it's called a patch. You can make spray it with flower perfume and call it "an update" or whatever but a patch is a patch.



It's evil when MS does it because other console makers aren't using online as a crutch for this kind of mentality. Hopefully this does not change; it only takes one bad apple to get the ball rolling. If MS sets a precedent for it and consumers don't mind, we may yet see other developers do the same.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

EDIT: WTF it happend again. I'm above the post I responded too.

Well I may have been a bit overzealous just concentrating on the PC side. Regardless, I would rather not have this kind of mentality prevalent. Just about every PC game, big name big budget small fry alike, have patch problems. With console games, at least only the small fry have this problem.

I've never played a major, good quality game that was unplayable because of bugs.

Speaking of bugs, Marvel Nemesis has a bug. It actually hung and stopped running while my brother was playing tonight! I haven't seen that on a Playstation game forever.

GTA vice City was loaded with them

Enter the Matrix Had them.

Gran Turismo Had them.

Maybe not game ending bugs but the situation with PDZ isn't that at all. They removed features and may update them later. That's okay what you are suggesting isn't the case in fact I think I had this discussion on this board around the time Xbox live was set to debut. People were saying that all the games were going to need patches.

[Mochan]

Unlike on a console when a game has bugs and glitches you are stuck with them forever. And with some games GTA you are stuck with those bugs over a series of games. Or Even worst with a game like GT they release a fix version of the game but if you bought the old one you are out of luck. Or lets not even get into the sports game with out of whack rosters that if it wasn't for the patches (roster updates) you would be stuck with for the whle season unless you went in and fixed every thing manually. I've played numerous buggy games for consoles that had no hope of being fixed. The console gamer just had to deal with it unlike PC gamers who could demant a patch. Was Enter the Matrix finished? Was Driver 3? I could go on for days.

Well I may have been a bit overzealous just concentrating on the PC side. Regardless, I would rather not have this kind of mentality prevalent. Just about every PC game, big name big budget small fry alike, have patch problems. With console games, at least only the small fry have this problem.

I've never played a major, good quality game that was unplayable because of bugs.

Speaking of bugs, Marvel Nemesis has a bug. It actually hung and stopped running while my brother was playing tonight! I haven't seen that on a Playstation game forever.

[Mochan]

Well what is it when Sony promises online for GT4 then says later in an update then cancels it all together?

A crock of crap! My apologies, Sony is evil too. I didn't know about that one!

[Gadfly2317]

Gadfly get some new material please!

No problem. MS gives us new material on a near weekly basis!

[Pandarbock]

So in other words people that buy the core package are going to have to just deal with buggy or incomplete games?

[Superjoint Ritual]

It's nice to know Rare is still operating in true form. Who would've thought Rare wouldn't have enough time? Lol... This launch sounds more and more like a disaster waiting to happen. :(

[Jupiter_x]

It's nice to know Rare is still operating in true form. Who would've thought Rare wouldn't have enough time? Lol... This launch sounds more and more like a disaster waiting to happen. :(

Sounds more and more Like? No my friend...it is! Rare has been a disaster ever since they appered in M$'s world.
Another thing that confuses me is Xbox 360 is getting so much attention from so many people. EB sales guys are all over it, yet they knock PS3? This forum and a few others are overloaded with Xbox fans that glorify the up and coming 360...no matter how good or not so good PS3 or even Rev seem to be. What I have seen so far on 360 has not sparked up that excitement in me. Add this to the fact I don't think much of M$ and the Xbox systems. My next gen starts in 2006!

[Fivespot]

Sounds more and more Like? No my friend...it is!

Kind of jumping the gun a bit don't you think. The system doesn't release until 11/22 so we won't know if its a disaster until at least 11/22 even if all indications are it will be.

Another thing that confuses me is Xbox 360 is getting so much attention from so many people. EB sales guys are all over it, yet they knock PS3? This forum and a few others are overloaded with Xbox fans that glorify the up and coming 360...no matter how good or not so good PS3 or even Rev seem to be.

It's all about the hype at this point. Since MS releases way ahead of everyone else, its only natural that lots are more excited about that at the moment especially game store employees. Remember, they're trying to sell product and its easier to sell a product thats coming in 2 months vs. two that don't yet have official release dates.

Plus, PS3 and Rev still have a bunch of unknowns since they are a ways off yet. Rev hasn't even released many specs at this point.

As we get closer to the other two releasing - all of the hype will be re-directed.

[joquito]

Sounds more and more Like? No my friend...it is! Rare has been a disaster ever since they appered in M$'s world.
Another thing that confuses me is Xbox 360 is getting so much attention from so many people. EB sales guys are all over it, yet they knock PS3? This forum and a few others are overloaded with Xbox fans that glorify the up and coming 360...no matter how good or not so good PS3 or even Rev seem to be. What I have seen so far on 360 has not sparked up that excitement in me. Add this to the fact I don't think much of M$ and the Xbox systems. My next gen starts in 2006!


More people are into the 360 because there's more concrete information to grab hold to. Heck, it launches in less than 2 months. You can also say that there's more information to criticize about as well. Many things about the PS3 are still speculative. The PS3s specs are still up for review according to Sony. Infinium labs had more info available about its console than Nintendo has for the Revolution. The Revolution is vaporware at this point and all the praise I hear for it makes me scratch my head. I understand the hopes one may have in Nintendo, but to say that the Revolution may be better than 360 or PS3 is baseless.

[Jupiter_x]

Already we are seeing the evil fingers of The Patch Mentality which has plagued the PC world for more than a decade. Under this mentality, developers get lazy and cut corners releasing a product that is incomplete, rationalizing it away with the notion that "we can always release a patch later on to fix it.

Think about it, M$ deals in PC software, PC peripherals, and now Xbox which is primarily made up of PC parts...hence why Xbox is so darn big. PS2 and GC use parts made specifically for consoles. PSTWO is really small....this cannot be done with Xbox...unless they use Laptop parts! Big $$$.

This Patch thing mentality in consoles is indeed not good. The original Xbox even had some games that required patches....UT2004 was one of them I think......yuck!

"Xbox RJ" should have been it's name "Rush Job".

[Jupiter_x]

It's all about the hype at this point. Since MS releases way ahead of everyone else, its only natural that lots are more excited about that at the moment especially game store employees. Remember, they're trying to sell product and its easier to sell a product thats coming in 2 months vs. two that don't yet have official release dates.

Good point, I guess it is coming out soon, this we know. PS3 and Rev are still unknown at this point. They still feel far away.
Sigh! And I cannot fully deny that I was not tempted to jump into the next gen with 360 at one time or another. You got me to spill some truth...You happy Fiveski? :mad:

[Jupiter_x]

More people are into the 360 because there's more concrete information to grab hold to. Heck, it launches in less than 2 months. You can also say that there's more information to criticize about as well. Many things about the PS3 are still speculative. The PS3s specs are still up for review according to Sony. Infinium labs had more info available about its console than Nintendo has for the Revolution. The Revolution is vaporware at this point and all the praise I hear for it makes me scratch my head. I understand the hopes one may have in Nintendo, but to say that the Revolution may be better than 360 or PS3 is baseless.

I am going to wait it out and see how Rev turns out before jumping aboard. I have mixed feelings about the Rev. I want one but I don't. The Milk drinker in me just wants to pimp that PS3. I want that MGS and Killzone on my TV. But it could all be smoke and mirrors. I have faith in Sony, I think they will deliver this time.
M$ has steam this holliday, I will stop into EB on launch day to see it in the flesh, I want to see and play it. I'll be playing it tons when a couple of my friends grab one.

[Fivespot]

Sigh! And I cannot fully deny that I was not tempted to jump into the next gen with 360 at one time or another. You got me to spill some truth...You happy Fiveski? :mad:

Yes. :)

Seriously though, I'm on the hype bandwagon and are a little nervous with some of the recent news:

A. Some games only running at 30fps (PGR3 for example)
B. Games skimping on the features to release in time (PD0)
C. Graphics not yet showing even close to full potential (Madden 360)

But like I said in the thread I started (Launch Expectations), I don't expect 360 to come out of the starting gate at its fullest potential - that takes some time like it did for all the consoles this last gen.

I try to take all of this with a grain of salt as most of what I read (especially here) is just anti-MS propaganda and biased. I'll make the final judgement after its running in my gaming room and I've had some time to test-drive the new hardware.

If PS3 and the 360 end up similar in power and capabilities - I doubt I'll be disappointed (glass half-full). PS3 isn't really showing its cards yet so its silly to already announce them as the winner as some folks are doing.

[Jupiter_x]

I wouldn't be all that nervous, I think PGR will come though, PD0 just needs a month or two, just to tie up those loose ends. Oblivion will eat up your time anyway.

One thing that worries me on Sony's end is, Carmack is pro 360, Itagaki pledged allgience with them too. As I have said before, the Buzz on 360 is big...really big. I know it's mostly because 360 will be on shelves soon, but I also remember even a year to a year and a half before PS2 was released, it was the big talk, DC had a year advance and nobody really hyped on it. PS2 took the show even upon the release of DC. This time PS3 seems to be the lesser of the two, 360 is gaining that steam. That "Gap" will be smaller. 360 could even turn out #1 over here on North American Soil.

[Mochan]

I think analyst's predictions are coming to fruition: Sony's marketshare will shrink while MS's will gain.

[Jupiter_x]

I think analyst's predictions are coming to fruition: Sony's marketshare will shrink while MS's will gain.

Yes, sadly this could be happening. I still predict Sony will come out on top...but if they don't, I still wont regret owning PS3.