Nemisis review and Revolution Controller dig!

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Here is a one paragraph review of Marvel Nemesis that also takes a good jab at the Revolution Controller. This is the review of Marvel Nemesis from Playstation 2 Cheat Code Central.
<b>"
Where the gameplay falters inexcusably is the primary one button gameplay. It is suggested this was done so that players could easily move from one character to the next without having to re-learn difficult "movesets" for each fighter. The last time I checked, most gamers weren't brain damaged to the point where they couldn't function when having to learn a few new button commands. Has EA even watched some of you kids play games? Most of you gamers were raised with controllers in your hands - and yes, we salute you (but get outside once in awhile!) - and games like this are just completely insulting to your skills. Even casual gamers aren't afraid of learning some cool new moves, so why EA would pander to a demographic that I'm not even sure exists is a complete mystery. Is this the same demographic that is going to prefer playing games with a remote control because a controller is too icky for them? WTF, dudes?"</b>

People talk about the executives at Microsoft. Well I think the execs at companies like EA and Nintendo are really brewing trouble for hardcore gamers. They are hell bent on trying to draw in the "masses" girls, 80 years olds, etc. They are going to water down gaming at the expense of traditional gamers. EA can bite my ass. Nintendo, well, I really don't mind, I can completely ignore their machine, I can understand if that is their philosophy and maybe there is a market out there that needs to be tapped. But something like this from EA is a damn shamed. They get license to a great property and graphics aside, butcher it. Well, it is EA should I be surprised? I hope they stick with PS3 in the next gen, 360 will be a lot less cluttered without their crap games.

[Gadfly2317]

Why is this interesting? It's a review clip from a Sony fansite, and I'm all for a good dig, but this one was just stupid. It shows that they, like you, apparently don't understand what Nintendo is offering in terms of control. Making something simpler and more intuitive doesn't automatically mean simplistic gameplay. It is utterly ludicrous that these Ps2 fanboys are going to take EA's lousy game design and somehow turn it into an indictment against Nintendo's new controller.

Please actually look at the control design one more time, what it does, and how many variations and options of control they are offering, including a traditional casing that still allows for the 3-d control sensing to function. If you can't see that the Rev's buffet of control options allows for not only more intuitive games but also for greater control, you aren't even trying to use your brain. Can you not see how the rev controller applied to something like Crimson Skies could have made it even deeper, NOT more shallow?

I personally hope Nintendo postpones Zelda Twilight Princess and retools it for the Rev controller. Take the horseback based combat alone, and imagine that with a traditional controller. It's pretty limited--only a little more functionality than what we saw with N64. Then take what you know about the Rev controller and apply it. The left analog stick controls the horse's direction, left button used to spur horse to greater speeds. Left button #2 to rein-in/slow horse. The Wand allows you to simply look around/aim and trigger finger to shoot arrows. BUT, since it senses 3-d spatial movement, you can also move forward and backward with the wand to zoom in or out; additionally, you can use the d-pad on the wand to switch weapons, say, to a sword for horseback melee combat; you can still view/move with the wand, then you can lock the view with the A-button and "swing" the wand to slash in any direction; plus you can then also do sword thrusts to stab an opponent rather than slash.

Those are just some random ideas off the top off my head based on the Rev controller design. I do not have near the imagination some developers do. Sure, the Rev control will be applied toward more simple control games that may broaden interactive electronic entertainments appeal--stuff like nintendogs. But the control has huge possibilities, and developers need only use their imaginations. If you liked games and had an imagination, you'd be enthusiastic about this. To help with your bias, re-read everything about this controller, then pretend MS had come up with it for 360. I can do that, and I can promise you, if MS were doing this, I would be an Xbot, praising MS for leading on innovation, and I would be totally excited about the new gameplay possibilites--even the potential for console FPS's and RTS's. The Rev controller WILL make Metroid a better game; it would have also made Halo a better game. If you can't understand that, you're beyond reason.

[Mochan]

I hope they stick with PS3 in the next gen, 360 will be a lot less cluttered without their crap games.

Fat chance of that, unfortunately. 360 is more EA territory than PS3 is.

That said, there is something to the Rev controller being targetted towards a crowd that is looking for simplicity. However I do not think this will be at the expense of hardcore gamers. They will make games for the masses, they will also make games for the hardcore. I mean, we have Nintendogs on the DS but we also have GTA and other hardcore titles.

[Gadfly2317]

Fat chance of that, unfortunately. 360 is more EA territory than PS3 is.

That said, there is something to the Rev controller being targetted towards a crowd that is looking for simplicity. However I do not think this will be at the expense of hardcore gamers. They will make games for the masses, they will also make games for the hardcore. I mean, we have Nintendogs on the DS but we also have GTA and other hardcore titles.

Totally; when Nintendo was first touting the need for games that appealed to non-hardcores, only two or three months later, in collaboration with Sega, they brough us F-Zero GX, which was one of the first times we ever saw a site (I think IGN) actually dock a game's score for BEING TOO HARD for the casual gamer.

[T.Tashi]

Simple doesn't necessarily mean easy.

[Mochan]

Yeah, look at Ghosts and Goblins. That was really simple but....

[Renzatic Gear]

What they mean by simple and intuitive is something that's easy to slide into without having to turn to page 60 of the game's manual to learn how to execute a standard punch. It seems that Nintendo wants to make games are easy to control and quick to pick up on, but not necessarily dumbed down or simplistic.

It's more about the interface rather than the gameplay.

[T.Tashi]

What they mean by simple and intuitive is something that's easy to slide into without having to turn to page 60 of the game's manual to learn how to execute a standard punch.
Or, I would add, memorizing 3 dozen button combinations (no offense to fighter fans). Hi Slade! Hi Folken!

It seems that Nintendo wants to make games are easy to control and quick to pick up on, but not necessarily dumbed down or simplistic.
It's more about the interface rather than the gameplay.
Yeah exactly. Simple controls doesn't have to mean a shallow gameplay experience.

[trebor]

I personally hope Nintendo postpones Zelda Twilight Princess and retools it for the Rev controller.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no...

First off, in case you might have forgotten, the controls for Wind Waker were buttery smooth and don't need the wand.

Secondly, shoehorning Zelda into the Rev could seriously backfire if it messes up said buttery smooth control schemes.

Lastly, that would mean I'd never play Zelda TP. Nintendo promised it would be on the GC, if they break that promise, why should we believe any other promise they make?

To reiterate, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no...

[Gadfly2317]

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no...

First off, in case you might have forgotten, the controls for Wind Waker were buttery smooth and don't need the wand.

Secondly, shoehorning Zelda into the Rev could seriously backfire if it messes up said buttery smooth control schemes.

Lastly, that would mean I'd never play Zelda TP. Nintendo promised it would be on the GC, if they break that promise, why should we believe any other promise they make?

To reiterate, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no...

If it were "shoe-horned" then no, that would not interest me, only if by moving it they could make it better. As far as Windwakers controls being buttery smooth, that's true, but I already played Windwaker. I want to do something new, and the gameplay examples I was referring to with Rev control applied to Zelda is the kind of thing I'm wanting; obviously I want it to be buttery-smooth too, rather than shoe-horned.

Eternal Darkness started its development as an N64 game but slipped to GC; Too Human started as a GC title and slipped to 360. It happens; titles that are in development for a current system slip; it's not breaking a promise when there is no promise.

What I consider a broken promise is claiming at a big industry event that wireless control, HD and backward compatiblity are standard features of your next gen system, and then they are not. I ONLY would want Zelda moved to the Rev if the move made sense and improved the game's features, not if they just ported over with no real improvements a completed game like Perfect Dark Zero just to pad the launch. Even still, in either case, I wouldn't skip the system because of a title moving; if I were an Xbox/Rare fan I wouldn't skip out on the 360 just because a title or two were moved.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Lastly, that would mean I'd never play Zelda TP.

Same here. The only reason I'm even (barely) holding on to this little box is to play Zelda. If they do move it, then I'll probably be done with Nintendo. Regardless of the controller, to me it's the software that's going to make it worth using, and I have no faith that Nintendo will make enough games for me to consider buying another system of theirs.


If they do switch Zelda to Rev, I hope they would announce it soon so I can just cut my losses.

[Gadfly2317]

If they do switch Zelda to Rev, I hope they would announce it soon so I can just cut my losses.

I doubt they'll switch it to the Rev, and I'm pretty excited about the title so mostly I'd hate to have to wait that long; really, I was just trying to illustrate the kinds of things I'd like to see done with the new controller in a Zelda title.

I can't really commit to the Rev or write it off yet because there's just too much unknown; basically, what new stuff are they going to unveil, and what will the cost be. I liked the 'cube much more than the N64 and there's a number of titles that are keepers for me; so if the Rev really comes in at quite a bit less cost than the other two systems, if the downloads for all those back titles are really reasonably priced, the backward compatiblities there. . . there's a strong incentive to get the system already. I like the direction they've taken with games on the DS, I liked the 'cube line-up a lot, and so I have a hard time being to skeptical about Nintendo and some third parties bringing enough really fun, original games to the table to make the Rev worthwhile.

[Mochan]

There are definitely too man unknowns regarding the Rev. We don't even know the specs of the system. All we know is that it will be running on 480p and it has that weird controller and online. Other than that it's a big mystery.

Although I will say gameplay before graphics anyday, I do admit to being a graphic whore and if the game is too ugly or dated-looking, I will have trouble playing it (I already have this problem with PS2 games).

[Gadfly2317]

There are definitely too man unknowns regarding the Rev. We don't even know the specs of the system. All we know is that it will be running on 480p and it has that weird controller and online. Other than that it's a big mystery.

Although I will say gameplay before graphics anyday, I do admit to being a graphic whore and if the game is too ugly or dated-looking, I will have trouble playing it (I already have this problem with PS2 games).

I hope they reconsider that 480p thing.

I don't even see how its possible that the games will be "ugly." Will Rev pull off the same level of realism as MGS4? Not likely, but with all systems being so powerful, for a game to be graphically beautiful is up to the art design of the developer. Old tech or not, Okami for Ps2 is freaking gorgeous; and for all the hi-tech of MGS4, it's an ugly game. Splinter Cell, Ghost Recon. . .blah; concrete is ugly. . war and the glorification of war is ugly and this fixation on realism in gaming sucks ass.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

After reading some more reviews and then some user reviews there was a lot of conflicting thought about this game. Most of the people who blasted the game, did so based on the thought this would be a traditional fighting game. Turned out, the game is a beat 'um up/fighter. People were also unhappy that the control scheme was too similar for each character. And finally that you had to go through the story mode to unlock the majority of the characters.

Other opinions countered those saying admittedly the game isn't as hardcore a fighting game as a typical fighter, but the beat 'em style fighting is cool once you get over that. The control scheme is similar for most characters, BUT the characters themselves had different powers and ablities that are true to their origins. Forcing you to unlock the characters in story mode was weak for some, a good romp for others. And that once all the characters are unlocked, the versus fighting is quite fun, and a blast online.

I still wasn't swayed. Then I read the teamxbox review of the game. And that swayed me. Not the fact that they gave it a decent score, but the commentary from the reviewer who seemed to be just as much a Marvel nut as I am. So, went to buy the game and also Ultimate Spider-man.

The user reviews are right. The pro's got it wrong. This is a good game and definitely not nearly as bad as its composite scoring. The story mode isn't great, but it isn't bad either. I've seen much much worse story modes. But playing the story mode isn't bad at all, its quite fun. One of the main complaints was the inability to lock onto air targets, this is such a minor issue blown outta proportion. Another complaint was the control scheme is the same for each character. Yeah, so what. Each characters has completely different moves, it doesn't feel repetitive at all switching between say the Thing and Elektra. The game groups characters so Spidey, Elektra, Wolverine for instance are very mobile and acrobatic. But even switching between Elektra and Wolverine is a dramatic difference. Their moves are entirely different.

The mechanics of the game are very good so far(only unlocked a few people). But the moves are smooth and fluid, the visuals are supreme compared to say Spider-man or X-MEN legends. The environment interaction is well done. The good thing about the unified control scheme is it makes it easy for newbies to play or pick-up, which is a bad thing for others, but I don't agree. In the versus mode, which is a whole lot of fun. I think it actually more fun or at least as much fun as your Soul Calibur's and DOAs, definitely more fun than Marvel vs Capcom or other 2D fighters. In game's like Soul Calibur they environment is rather tight and confined. You really can't escape or take a breather, and it really feels like there is no environment at all. DOA does a better job with better back drops, some a little interactive. But in this game, the maps are cool and you can move around, run and hide, you can climb up to a higher level to seek a minute to recover. There is no 100 move combinations that end with you being knocked out the ring. And the fights last a good long time.

Any one who is interested in this game, don't be afraid to give it a shot. It is not a bad game by any means.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Before the reviews came out, I had no idea this was a beat 'em up game. Though it's not perfect, I like the game. The story mode isn't bad, though I have no idea if you can regain health during the beat 'em up portions. The bosses so far (The Wink, Storm) are brutal.

Air targets shouldn't be too hard, because I think you can reflect anything shot right back to them if you hold block and the right trigger.

If I had to rely on reviews, I would look somewhere between the TeamXbox and Gamespot reviews.

My biggest disappointment so far is that I have yet to unlock Ironman.

[Mochan]

Not likely, but with all systems being so powerful, for a game to be graphically beautiful is up to the art design of the developer.

The Rev may be a lot more powerful than anything this gen, but the 480p resolution will hurt a lot. Certianly art direction is what makes a game look good; my brother swears Fable is the best looking game he's seen (better than Doom or Far Cry) and it's mostly due to the art direction. Whatever else you say about that game, it looked good. Technologically it wasn't very impressive but the style of the game gave it a hand-crafted look that really impressed my brother. I've also mentioned that SMT:DDS blew my socks of for graphics; it may have been running on a PS2 but the way they did the cell-shading was very impressive. The overall look was incredible despite the age of the PS2 showing.

So true, while the Rev won't likely be pumping out MGS4-level graphics, if the devs can use good artistic sense, its games will still look good and playable. However, poor resolution is just poor resolution, and once you've tasted high-res, low-res just looks pitiful no matter how good the game looks.



Now regarding Nemesis, I just got myself the game. It looks ugly, but at least it looks 1,000 times better than XMen Legends. Also, the game plays pretty fun but very basic and it doesn't exaclty blow me away or impress me. I haven't played much beyond the Thing and Wolvie levels yet, though. Overall it didn't really hold my attention, and I will probably end up shelving it while my brother and I play Legends 2.

My real complaint with the game is the crappy level design so far. The levels don't really feel too fun, but then I guess beat-em-up romps like this don't really rely on level design. What this kind of game does rely on is fast non-stop action, and this game felt like it didn't have enough of it. Of course, that could just be because I'm at the opening levels. It may turn the heat up later on.

I've been playing a game like this on the PS2 for the past year, it's called Narutimate Hero, something which Brendon might appreciate.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Before the reviews came out, I had no idea this was a beat 'em up game. Though it's not perfect, I like the game. The story mode isn't bad, though I have no idea if you can regain health during the beat 'em up portions. The bosses so far (The Wink, Storm) are brutal.

Air targets shouldn't be too hard, because I think you can reflect anything shot right back to them if you hold block and the right trigger.

If I had to rely on reviews, I would look somewhere between the TeamXbox and Gamespot reviews.

My biggest disappointment so far is that I have yet to unlock Ironman.

Not really having a problem. I have yet to get to Iron Man too, guess your a big Stark fan too. I noticed that health once gone is gone, but if you take a hit to your health, it will give you time to recover, but if you get hit again during that time, the health is gone for good. It took me a minute to figure that out. That's why I don't try and fight like I would in say DOA or Soul Calibur. I try and stay mobile, use ranged attacks. I also block, blocking feels like you are being hit, but you aren't actually taking any damage.

Only boss I had a problem with so far was Johnny Ohm. I knew I had to destroy the clock, and I kept using Daredevil's super jump and attack, the clock would only partially break. Meanwhile Johnny was frying my ass alive. So finally, I started throwing barrels at the clock and it broke easily and I was able to kick lil Johnny's tail. Haven't had a problem with any other boss. I used Storm and beat the hell outta that Ballet chick, I just stayed air borne and fried and bombed the hell outta her.

[Mochan]

Yeah, I noticed the health thing almost instantly. What I don't understand yet is how it works with Wolverine's healing factor.

Also, does anyone know how to change the controls in this game? I want to assign the block button to one of the shoulder buttons.

[Gadfly2317]

So true, while the Rev won't likely be pumping out MGS4-level graphics, if the devs can use good artistic sense, its games will still look good and playable. However, poor resolution is just poor resolution, and once you've tasted high-res, low-res just looks pitiful no matter how good the game looks.

I know. The 480p choice is my biggest dissapointment with the Rev. I don't mind if its the least powerful of the 3 systems, and I'm considering it for the first of the 3 systems I pick up depending on what it launches with, but the resolution thing really is a problem and something that gives me pause--it will have to be priced significantly cheaper than the Ps3 or the 1.5. I'm talking $199 vs $399.

Even though I had a DvD player with the so-called "up-conversion" technology (and it does look better than regular TV or my old dvd player) I recently upgraded to a hi-def cable package, and the 7 or 8 hi-def channels, its hard to watch any of the other channels after that. 1080i, underwater in the Great Barrier Reefs on "Discover HD Theater". . . I mean, I joke with my wife that the resolution is better than real life. I've snorkeled some sweet correl reefs, but with the silt and crud in the water and the mask fogging up, they actually do look better on TV now!

[Mochan]

The reason why I am so quick to diss XBox graphics is because I've been gaming hi-def on the PC for years. People are wowed by Splinter Cell or Halo's graphics but I was like, "Huh? Been there, done that, and on higher res to boot!"

[trebor]

Ok, these forum bugs are getting freaking intolerable. What the **** is a gy.us.intellitxt.com and why is it constantly loading when I'm on this forum? It slows the site down immensely.

I had a nice reply to this thread and it got lost and I got the dread "the sever is busy. sorry we suck so bad. have a nice day." message.

Suffice to say, Marvel Nemesis is a hybrid beat em' up/fighting game that doesn't do either particularly well, according to reviews. Glad I don't have to worry about buying this game before the end of the year.

[Mochan]

Trebor, sounds like you're stricken by spyware. I get no such thing. I would advise getting Spybot + Adaware or something.

I have to agree with the assessment "Hybrid fightinggame/beatemup without doing either well." Like I said, the beat-emup isn't intense on the action, which is what Beat-em-ups need, and the fighting game is too simplistic. As a free-roaming fighting game, the Naruto fighter does it better. The only reason someone would pick this game up, is for the Marvel license.

[Gadfly2317]

Suffice to say, Marvel Nemesis is a hybrid beat em' up/fighting game that doesn't do either particularly well, according to reviews. Glad I don't have to worry about buying this game before the end of the year.

What you are not stuck buying EA mutliplat rubbish on Xbox, which has had its plug pulled for the premature ejaculation--I mean "launch"--of the Xbox 360?

[trebor]

Trebor, sounds like you're stricken by spyware. I get no such thing. I would advise getting Spybot + Adaware or something.

Nonsense.

One, I'm on a Mac. Two, this is the only site that I know of that has the "waiting for g7.us.intellitxt.com..." loading in the load bar.

Considering all the other glitches and crap this site has been prone to lately, I'm more inclined to think it's a mistake in the coding or some advertising that is causing this.

[Mochan]

It must be Mac-specific spyware! :P

[trebor]

It must be Mac-specific spyware! :P

Mac-specific spyware that only effects one site? :eek:

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Yeah, I noticed the health thing almost instantly. What I don't understand yet is how it works with Wolverine's healing factor.

Also, does anyone know how to change the controls in this game? I want to assign the block button to one of the shoulder buttons.


You know I didn't pay attention to Wolverine's healing when I was playing him. He is one of the first characters, so I was really just learning the game. I haven't played him since then. But I have noticed that some characters can actually replenish health. For example Venom.
The imperfects replenish health but I wonder if when you use them can you do the same thing. For example Johnny Ohm and nearby electricity and Solara and nearby fire.

This game does have a lot of technical faults, but it also has one thing that can't be rated, FUN. And Fun can sometimes overcome faults, and this game does that. The one fault people complained about, to me, is a non-issue, the one-button attack complaint or similar controls for each character complaint is pure Bull. There is a night and day difference controller someone like Storm and then switching to Spider-man. And, not only the controls but how you must proceed to be successful. Anyway, this game may suck in the reviews but its fun as hell. I also got Ultimate Spiderman, but so far I think Nemesis is wayyyyyyy more fun. Not to say U-spidey is bad, but for right now, I can't put down Nemesis. And, I know why people are complaining about having to do story mode. Cause its tough, you gotta fight your azz off. But if you use your head you can get through the game with little re-do. It took me only three tries to beat Storm with Wolverine. Two tries to beat Solara with Venom. The longest it took was when I had Daredevil against Johnny Ohm.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Ok, these forum bugs are getting freaking intolerable. What the **** is a gy.us.intellitxt.com and why is it constantly loading when I'm on this forum? It slows the site down immensely.

I had a nice reply to this thread and it got lost and I got the dread "the sever is busy. sorry we suck so bad. have a nice day." message.

Suffice to say, Marvel Nemesis is a hybrid beat em' up/fighting game that doesn't do either particularly well, according to reviews. Glad I don't have to worry about buying this game before the end of the year.

Yeah, according to reviews. But I can imagine this game would give timeline driven reviewers a nightmare. First of all, a typical 3D fighter is so damn easy and watered down, you can beat it in a week with minimal effort. Sure Soul Calibur had a deep unlocking system, but that was just a bunch of filler bullcrap and really stupid(wind is sucking your player off the board, see if you can defeat so and so). This story mode in Nemesis kills any story mode of DOA3, Soul Calibur etc, precisely cause it is a beat em up and while the story is a patchwork and repetitive the environments overcome that deficiency, its not just an arena based advance to the next fighter game. Sure the game has its faults, like any game, but I've seen these same faults(lack of lock-on, unbalanced issues) in many other games that were a lot less fun. That is the main ingredient in this game, that can't really be rated or quantified, and sure it could be called subjective, but I don't think so anybody with an open mind would find this game a freakin blast to play, if you get over the preconcieved notions, with granted is sometimes hard to do.

[Mochan]

Well, Venom's symbiote does have some kind of self-healing faculty but I think it's weird that he can replenish health. I would have thought only Logan and maybe the Hulk would have that kind of power. (the Hulk is in the game, right?)

Anyway it's my brother who's into this game right now, I'm busy playing other stuff. He is stuck at fighting Storm with Wolvie though. Says he can't beat her for the life of him. ;) I'm playing SWAT4 later tonight with Jupiter.

[slade]

First of all, a typical 3D fighter is so damn easy and watered down, you can beat it in a week with minimal effort. Sure Soul Calibur had a deep unlocking system, but that was just a bunch of filler bullcrap and really stupid(wind is sucking your player off the board, see if you can defeat so and so). This story mode in Nemesis kills any story mode of DOA3, Soul Calibur etc,

Only you would make a statement that is so completely ludicrous.

[Mochan]

BTW -- you can beat a 3D fighter in.... 5 minutes. :)

Also, the best story mode in any fighting game belongs to Eretzvaju.

[trebor]

Yeah, according to reviews. But I can imagine this game would give timeline driven reviewers a nightmare. First of all, a typical 3D fighter is so damn easy and watered down, you can beat it in a week with minimal effort. Sure Soul Calibur had a deep unlocking system, but that was just a bunch of filler bullcrap and really stupid(wind is sucking your player off the board, see if you can defeat so and so). This story mode in Nemesis kills any story mode of DOA3, Soul Calibur etc, precisely cause it is a beat em up and while the story is a patchwork and repetitive the environments overcome that deficiency, its not just an arena based advance to the next fighter game. Sure the game has its faults, like any game, but I've seen these same faults(lack of lock-on, unbalanced issues) in many other games that were a lot less fun. That is the main ingredient in this game, that can't really be rated or quantified, and sure it could be called subjective, but I don't think so anybody with an open mind would find this game a freakin blast to play, if you get over the preconcieved notions, with granted is sometimes hard to do.

Your take on Marvel Nemisis and how it's fun despite it's poor reviews is interesting, since you lambasted Killer 7 for getting poor reviews, despite being fairly innovative and fresh.

[T.Tashi]

Mac-specific spyware that only effects one site? :eek: It's a script that vgr is running. Below is all the domains you connect to when you're here on this site.


audioreview.com
vpptechnologies.com
intellitxt.com
adbureau.net
tribalfusion.com
vibrantmedia.com
atdmt.com
falkag.com
contextweb.com

[slade]

BTW -- you can beat a 3D fighter in.... 5 minutes. :)

Also, the best story mode in any fighting game belongs to Eretzvaju.

That's called Evil Zone in N. America. I played it back on PSX. As good as the story mode was and it was better then many other fighters out there, it was no comparison to Soul Edge. The only other fighting game whose story comes close is Guilty Gear X2.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Well, Venom's symbiote does have some kind of self-healing faculty but I think it's weird that he can replenish health. I would have thought only Logan and maybe the Hulk would have that kind of power. (the Hulk is in the game, right?)

I don't think Hulk is in the game, well I hope not since he's another character I'm not a fan of. I haven't see Venom self-heal the same way that Wolverine can.

Any tips on how to defend against the cheap flying enemies? lately, once a couple get on screen, it's game over for me since my character can't get up before they shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot, etc.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

I don't think Hulk is in the game, well I hope not since he's another character I'm not a fan of. I haven't see Venom self-heal the same way that Wolverine can.

Any tips on how to defend against the cheap flying enemies? lately, once a couple get on screen, it's game over for me since my character can't get up before they shoot and shoot and shoot and shoot, etc.

No Hulk in the game. I have gotta use Venom some more, but he wasn't self healing, he was absorbing those energy globes when they exploded.

What character are you using against the flying machines? Its best to jump on them first, especially to stop em from multiplying. Try the high jump, right trigger and A, then attack button in air. Or pick up a barrel or something and take them out that way. I'm pretty close to finishing the game. I unlocked Iron Man and Brigade today, really breezing through the game. Also unlocked Magneto, he sucks. I'm on Paragon's Revenge right now, don't know where that is in terms of finishing, but I think everyone is unlocked. Thus far, The Human Torch was toughest for me to get through story mode. There was one mission you gotta defeat 20 enemies in 3:30. I thought, okay, this will be easy. Hell, it was tough, real tough. His flame attacks use up too much energy and his normal melee attacks are weak. Iron Man kicks mucho azz in the game. But he draws a lot of power too. But his repulsor attacks really just blast the snot outta the opposition. The only thing i'm not liking about the game is the energized blocks. If you use it, for example, Iron Man's force field, it drains power so fast, it only last like a few seconds and you entire energy bar is depleted.

Trebor, critcizing Killer 7 is fair game, just like criticizing this game is too. But, I play the games I want to play and many of the games I play aren't rated highly, I could care less. I don't wait for consensus or approval. Hell I just finished Dark Watch recently, and I think that game was rated in like the mid 80's, it was horrid. 16.23 times worse than Marvel Nemesis.

[Mochan]

No Hulk in the game. I have gotta use Venom some more, but he wasn't self healing, he was absorbing those energy globes when they exploded.


Does that mean he got killed in the movie near the start? LOL.

[trebor]

Trebor, critcizing Killer 7 is fair game, just like criticizing this game is too. But, I play the games I want to play and many of the games I play aren't rated highly, I could care less. I don't wait for consensus or approval. Hell I just finished Dark Watch recently, and I think that game was rated in like the mid 80's, it was horrid. 16.23 times worse than Marvel Nemesis.

It's a bit contradictory for you to have dissed Killer 7 for bad reviews and then turn around and say what you're saying, is all I'm getting at here.

[Gadfly2317]

Trebor, critcizing Killer 7 is fair game, just like criticizing this game is too. But, I play the games I want to play and many of the games I play aren't rated highly, I could care less. I don't wait for consensus or approval. Hell I just finished Dark Watch recently, and I think that game was rated in like the mid 80's, it was horrid. 16.23 times worse than Marvel Nemesis.

Well, I'm glad you don't wait for concensus or approval, but you criticized Killer 7 without even playing it; that despite the fact Killer 7 got mixed reviews; and amongst those mixed reviews were MANY rave reviews of people who understood the game. NO ONE is giving Nemesis rave reviews--the best of them scores 70 and the reviews themselves are all negative; it's got a GR average of %50 compared to the 77% for GC's Killer 7. And in that 77%, there were a lot of 80's and 90's. A couple oafs who couldn't deal with a new control scheme was the only thing really dragged killer 7's score down from the 85% it should rightfully have earned.

There's no point in comparing a brilliant esoteric work of art like Killer 7 to some movie tie-in EA crap that's been universally panned.

[quote=Trebor]Your take on Marvel Nemisis and how it's fun despite it's poor reviews is interesting, since you lambasted Killer 7 for getting poor reviews, despite being fairly innovative and fresh.[/i] That's what's funny though; he bashed Killer 7 for "getting poor reviews" but it didn't; it got a LOT of extremely rave reviews. The game is not perfect but it is still critically acclaimed and will be a title people talk about years from now.

This EA Marvel's Nemesis thing, maybe I should try it; I mean, I don't go by scores alone either, but its not just the stinking 50%-60% range all the scores fall in, its that it looks like an unoriginal poorly executed piece of EA crap. I try to be fair and give things a chance, but even if there is a little fun to be had, with SO MANY games out there (unless you're an xbox-only player) why would anyone waste time on this turd?

[Mochan]

Not just that, I've played Nemesis and I can say from personal experience that the only thing floating its boat is the Marvel license. However it is not a bad game, just not a good game as far as I'm concerned. I wouldn't recommend wasting time on it though unless you need your Marvel Superheroes fix.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

What character are you using against the flying machines? Its best to jump on them first, especially to stop em from multiplying. Try the high jump, right trigger and A, then attack button in air. Or pick up a barrel or something and take them out that way. I'm pretty close to finishing the game. I unlocked Iron Man and Brigade today, really breezing through the game. Also unlocked Magneto, he sucks. I'm on Paragon's Revenge right now, don't know where that is in terms of finishing, but I think everyone is unlocked. Thus far, The Human Torch was toughest for me to get through story mode. There was one mission you gotta defeat 20 enemies in 3:30. I thought, okay, this will be easy. Hell, it was tough, real tough. His flame attacks use up too much energy and his normal melee attacks are weak. Iron Man kicks mucho azz in the game. But he draws a lot of power too. But his repulsor attacks really just blast the snot outta the opposition. The only thing i'm not liking about the game is the energized blocks. If you use it, for example, Iron Man's force field, it drains power so fast, it only last like a few seconds and you entire energy bar is depleted.

It seems like Spidey and Venom are the best characters to use vs the flying things, only because they will web those things and attack. I also had good success with Human Torch vs those flying things.

Why is Magneto even in the game? I bet he's all watered down, just like in those Capcom fighting games (Except for X-Men: Children of the Atom. He was the hardest boss I fought on a fighting game.)

After you finish the game, are you going to keep it or trade it?

[ThaMaskedGamer]

It seems like Spidey and Venom are the best characters to use vs the flying things, only because they will web those things and attack. I also had good success with Human Torch vs those flying things.

Why is Magneto even in the game? I bet he's all watered down, just like in those Capcom fighting games (Except for X-Men: Children of the Atom. He was the hardest boss I fought on a fighting game.)

After you finish the game, are you going to keep it or trade it?


Definitely keep it, the variety of fighting in Versus mode is just really fun. I was showing my girl how to play yesterday, its rare for her to play games, but she liked DOA and Soul Calibur and she likes this one too. Then my daughter loves the game too. I like the versus fighting more than a traditional fighting game, cause it is not a button masher. You can employ strategy. Then I have yet to go online and fight. I haven't even mastered the majority of the characters.

As far as what Gadfly and Trebor are saying, there is a mighty difference between Killer7 and Nemesis. You guys were bragging for a very long time about a GC exclusive title. You guys were waiting a very long time. Then the game came and it was crap. Marvel Nemesis is a multiplatform game, not an XBOX game. Nobody was bragging to others about it, touting it as an exclusive chip. It has been well documented the history of laughing when a much bragged about exclusive game, flops. Take Brute Force, or State of Emergency. Just like you guys are hoping that Perfect Dark flops right now. And the other difference, you guys never even tried out your own game. You guys all wanted Killer7 so bad, but when it flopped in the reviews you guys all punked out. Then you waited and finally got the game. If you really knew so much about that game, then you wouldn't have let reviews spook you. Finally, all is fair in system wars. A multiplatform game getting bad reviews, no big deal. But an exclusive GC game(when there aren't many good GC games anyway) tanking is a really big blow to that anemic system. I mean you guys are waiting years(despite this being the latter years) for the next Zelda game, years for the first Metroid game on DS. If they come out and tank, guess what, i'll be laughing.

Someone said Nemesis was poorly implemented. I disagree. The heart of this game are the characters. If this was a game with made up characters, it wouldn't be the same. But these characters have decades of history behind them, they have specific well known powers, they are copyrighted intellectual property. They definitely have value. And I've seen many many hero games, such as Batman or the Hulk or superman, where they developers only had to focus on getting one character right, and they couldn't do it. In this game, Nhilistic got all the characters right, with a few exceptions. So that is a great achievement. And sometimes it isn't about everything a game does wrong, I mean GTA for example, if anybody was really technically reviewing that game it would be labeled as crud. Sometimes its about what a game does right. When you break this game down and fight Wolverine vs The Thing both characters are done so well, the backgrounds and the story mode don't matter. Take Soul Calibur, you are fighting on Octagons, and squares and other geometric shapes floating on red water. There is no level interaction, and all you have to do is knock someone over the edge. So the Nemesis does much more than that. If i'm Spider-man, I can avoid Iron Mans repulsor by swinging all over the map, I can crawl up a wall and shoot webs from the wall. If i'm Iron Man I can pick up a truck and fly it over to my opponent and throw it at em. Forgiving the flaws in story mode, the versus fighting here is great. And if you happened to enjoy the story mode, like I did, then that is just another plus.

Also, the online component is seamless, yielding longevity that games like DOA and Soul Calibur never had. I've played XMEN Legends in versus mode and this game is 100 times better. Of course XMEN Legends the story mode is the meat and potatoes and versus mode is just gravy. Well, Nemesis is reverse that, the story mode is filler and versus mode is the real deal.

Now, do I expect you and trebor to care about any points i've made, no. But i've made them, saying what I found enjoyable. If Killer7 was so great, you should have done the same thing, but you guys only talk about games.

[Gadfly2317]

As far as what Gadfly and Trebor are saying, there is a mighty difference between Killer7 and Nemesis. You guys were bragging for a very long time about a GC exclusive title. You guys were waiting a very long time. Then the game came and it was crap.[/quote
That's the thing, though, it isn't crap; it's an exceptional game and was very controversial; some games nearly all the reviewers are within a few points of each other; reviews were all over the place with killer 7.

[QUOTE=ThaMaskedGamer]Marvel Nemesis is a multiplatform game, not an XBOX game. Nobody was bragging to others about it, touting it as an exclusive chip. It has been well documented the history of laughing when a much bragged about exclusive game, flops. Take Brute Force, or State of Emergency. Just like you guys are hoping that Perfect Dark flops right now. And the other difference, you guys never even tried out your own game. You guys all wanted Killer7 so bad, but when it flopped in the reviews you guys all punked out. I see what you are saying about anticipated titles; I'm not sure why Killer 7 got brought up. Lots of games we have hopes for flop or turn out badly, but that's just not the case with Killer 7. I think in general, based on what we all knew about the game before hand, that it had "niche" written all over it, and most of those kind of games get a few points knocked for length and production values. I know many of us discussed before hand when the control mechanics were revealed that the game might be damn near unplayable. K7 was like the anti-hype; cool concept but huge skepticism that it would yield a good game. I played Brute Force and State of Emergency; gag!!! No one who knows what they were talking about would lump Killer 7 with those. Killer 7 is simply . . .killer.

I do not want Perfect Dark 0 to flop. I like Rare, would like to see them succeed at what they do, wish MS would give them the time and support to get things right, like Nintendo did. Of course I want Rare to be profitiable and grow and make great games; after all they've recently signed on to do games for my beloved DS.

[Mochan]

Someone said Nemesis was poorly implemented. I disagree. The heart of this game are the characters. If this was a game with made up characters, it wouldn't be the same.

Exactly. Like I said, the only thing floating this game is the Marvel license.

Not saying that's inherently bad; a lot of games I get on the PS2 live on the licenses like Super Robot Wars, Bleach, Berserk, Narutimate Hero, FMA, Inuyasha Sengoku Jidai, Prince of Tennis Smash Hit, Victorious Road, etc.

I admit that a lot of these games are bad and only live on licenses. I can at least have fun out of the game's license but usually I end up shelving the game for being nothing but an excuse to play with intellectual property. Some of them are actually good, though.

In the case of Nemesis, I don't find it particularly good, just something that uses its license effectively.

[trebor]

As far as what Gadfly and Trebor are saying, there is a mighty difference between Killer7 and Nemesis. You guys were bragging for a very long time about a GC exclusive title. You guys were waiting a very long time. Then the game came and it was crap. Marvel Nemesis is a multiplatform game, not an XBOX game. Nobody was bragging to others about it, touting it as an exclusive chip. It has been well documented the history of laughing when a much bragged about exclusive game, flops. Take Brute Force, or State of Emergency. Just like you guys are hoping that Perfect Dark flops right now. And the other difference, you guys never even tried out your own game. You guys all wanted Killer7 so bad, but when it flopped in the reviews you guys all punked out. Then you waited and finally got the game. If you really knew so much about that game, then you wouldn't have let reviews spook you. Finally, all is fair in system wars. A multiplatform game getting bad reviews, no big deal. But an exclusive GC game(when there aren't many good GC games anyway) tanking is a really big blow to that anemic system. I mean you guys are waiting years(despite this being the latter years) for the next Zelda game, years for the first Metroid game on DS. If they come out and tank, guess what, i'll be laughing.

Killer 7 is a multiplatform game - it's on both the PS2 and the GC. So your main argument is gone, bye bye, kaput.

What's left of your argument looks pretty dang contradictory.

[Mochan]

Not even sure why the multiplat/exclusive thing was brought up. Nobody was dissing Nemesis for being an XBox game. Any criticisms levelled on it were levelled for it being what it is... an average game with good intellectual property.

[Gadfly2317]

Not even sure why the multiplat/exclusive thing was brought up. Nobody was dissing Nemesis for being an XBox game. Any criticisms levelled on it were levelled for it being what it is... an average game with good intellectual property.

I mentioned Xbox, but not Nemesis being an Xbox-only game; I was just wondering, if for Xbox owners who've had the plug pulled on their system, it must suck to be reduced to choices of BELOW average games like Nemesis. An Xbox owner is left with little option but to buy a 360 or be stuck with crap like this. I feel sorry for people who just bought the Xbox last year, thinking they were getting a system that was only 2/12 years old, and that it would have plenty of life left in it.

If 360 shafts people the way the xbox did, will people keep coming back for more?

[slade]

That's a pretty good point, Gadfly. I just had a flashback of TMG trying to justify Obi Wan's greatness to VGR members. It seems like a repeat of the X-box's post launch woes.

Anyway, as great as Marvel Nemesis may be, I'll wait for Soul Calibur 3.

[Mochan]

I'd personally rather have DOA4... and we all know how I feel about the DOA series. But hey, at least I get lots of hot babes to ogle.

[slade]

Pah, you're dead to me.

[Mochan]

Was that directed to me? I meant I'd rather have DOA4 to Nemesis. Of course I'd rather have SC3 over DOA4, hadn't I mentioned that I don't like Dead or ALive and I prefer Namco's fighters?

[slade]

Oh!!!!!! My mistake then.

Mistook you for one of those loons that know nothing about fighting games.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Killer 7 is a multiplatform game - it's on both the PS2 and the GC. So your main argument is gone, bye bye, kaput.

What's left of your argument looks pretty dang contradictory.
No, not at all amigo. In fact, on this site and particularly at that time, it is PS2/GC versus XBOX or at any time it is PS2/PC vs XBOX, and sometimes it is all three versus XBOX. And sounding contradictory, hmm maybe even a little bit of hipocrisy too. Come to think of it, I'm starting to sound a lot like you.

[Gadfly2317]

Killer 7 is a multiplatform game - it's on both the PS2 and the GC. So your main argument is gone, bye bye, kaput.

What's left of your argument looks pretty dang contradictory.

It's barely multiplat; it was designed for GC, Ps2 was an after thought. The fact the Ps2 is scoring a full 10 points below the GC version is a good indication of that.

[trebor]

No, not at all amigo. In fact, on this site and particularly at that time, it is PS2/GC versus XBOX or at any time it is PS2/PC vs XBOX, and sometimes it is all three versus XBOX. And sounding contradictory, hmm maybe even a little bit of hipocrisy too.

Er...what?


Come to think of it, I'm starting to sound a lot like you.

When you start throwing around witty banterisms, dry sarcasm, razor sharp observations, and general hilarity everywhere, then you can get back to me on that one, champ.

[trebor]

It's barely multiplat; it was designed for GC, Ps2 was an after thought. The fact the Ps2 is scoring a full 10 points below the GC version is a good indication of that.

Serves Capcom right for taking back it's exclusivity - it sold worse on the PS2 then it did on the GC, if I'm not mistaken.

Meh. Regardless of it's original exclusive status, it helped me win yet another argument with TMG.