Has anyone seen the new MGS4 trailer yet?

[Mochan]

I've heard it looks phenomenal. My internet was down yesterday but I'll grab it when I get home. I hear you won't be prepared for how good it looks.

I remember back when I saw the MGS2 trailer, I was blown away by how I thought it was pre-rendered stuff until I saw question marks over heads when you were detected, I knew that's the kind of thing you see in game so I then realized it was supposed to be in-game, and when we finally got the game, it really was in-game!

Well I hear this trailer is in-game footage as well, can't wait to see it. Again, has anyone seen it yet? Your comments?

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I haven't viewed it, but I read that Snake (If that's him) is older in the game. First question that came to mind: "Are they making Snake old to show progress in the MGS storyline, or is he old to compete with Sam Fisher, who is also and old spy?

I also read that Raiden is supposed to be a better character than in MGS2. I guess he's going to have some huevos this time around, instead of being a whiny little wimp.

[slade]

I've seen it. Let's just say that if it is real time, and I'm putting an emphasis on if because the damn thing looks so close to CG, there won't be any debate over whether Killzone is achievable on PS3.

[Mochan]

Funny about that Killzone thing; when I saw it my reaction was entirely different to everyone else here. My reaction wasn't that the graphics weren't achievable, but rather is the "dynamic scripting"
of the NPCs like that achievable? (As in they aren't following actual scripting like we saw in Call of Duty, but rather they are acting on AI that tells them to do those actions).

[Gadfly2317]

I've seen it. Let's just say that if it is real time, and I'm putting an emphasis on if because the damn thing looks so close to CG, there won't be any debate over whether Killzone is achievable on PS3.

If that was game footage; then wow, THAT is next gen gaming. Also the sound design was impressive as hell; and some of the score was reminscent of Peter Gabriel's soundtrack for Last Temptation of Christ.

What makes me skeptical is that 360 and Ps3 are supposed to be so graphically similar, yet the MS "TGS Press Montage" video showed many games that were IMO pretty damned embarrassing; right down to relatively blocky characters with unatural jerky animation. I guess it didn't help that I watched it right after the MGS4 clip.

Maybe the diff is just between amibitous developers and lazy developers. On the 360 Press Montage some games looked significantly better than others; though what it looked like was a blend of CG and in-game. Since the MGS4 clip never deviated from its camera-shifting presentation, I'm skeptical it is reflective of what the actual game-play portions will look like.

[slade]

I think a big part of the reason is the development kits themselves. Sony has shipped kits that are a lot more indicative of the final hardware then the kits MS initially shipped. Some have been able to make the adjustment while others are having a harder time. In the end, this is just going to end up being one more feather in Sony's cap.

I can't believe how badly MS has botched their early launch. Everything they've done since and including E3 has been one bad PR disaster after another.

[Mochan]

What makes me skeptical is that 360 and Ps3 are supposed to be so graphically similar, yet the MS "TGS Press Montage" video showed many games that were IMO pretty damned embarrassing; right down to relatively blocky characters with unatural jerky animation. I guess it didn't help that I watched it right after the MGS4 clip.

Hope nobody takes this the wrong way or anything, but one thing I've generally taken note of is that Japanese devs seem a lot more advanced in general than American devs when it comes to things like creating characters, designing their look, animating them, etc. I mean look at the animations we had in Ico, they're still beyond what many current gen titles on the PC have.

Morrowind was running on hardware far more powerful than any console but the 3D models and animations we got on it were crappier than regular stuff we saw on the PS1!!!!

I've always argued this before on the PC boards: while PCs have far more technical capacity and power, often times they are outdone in looks by console games simply because of the graphical design. You guys here on Sys Wars may find this hard to believe but on the PC Boards before I used to defend consoles against the PC (funny how on PC boards I end up defending consoles, but on console boards I end up defending PCs).

It all boils down I guess to what a dev is good at. I mean, have any of you noticed this? Japanese games kick ass in the FMV department. American games almost never do good at it. The resolution, technical capacity, etc. is the same or better, but they just look bad. Compare the FMVs of Splinter Cell 1 to FF7's, a game a generation previous. FF7's FMVs are several classes better even just in playback quality! Splinter Cell FMVs were grainy, pixellated, you name it. Yet the hardware capabilities were far beyond the PS1's.

Kojima and his team might just really be good at this kind of thing compared to the XBox devs.

So yes, I am inclined to say that it's simply the difference between "lazy" devs and "ambitious" devs.


Or it could be the devkit issue slade mentioned. The difference I guess will be settled when we see how multiplats behave. If say Unreal Tournament 2007 comes out for both 360 and PS3 then we will see if there are really any differences in the hardware capability, or if it's simply a dev issue.

[mandark]

I can't believe how badly MS has botched their early launch. Everything they've done since and including E3 has been one bad PR disaster after another.
EARLY Launch. That right there is the problem. MS is so hell bent on launching before Sony its possible that developers for the 360 are just too rushed to create quality titles. I remember somebody posted around here that PGR3 is going to run at 30/fps because of the rush for launch when its possible to run PGR3 at 60/fps if given more time to tweak the game. Its a shame.

[Gadfly2317]

The difference I guess will be settled when we see how multiplats behave. If say Unreal Tournament 2007 comes out for both 360 and PS3 then we will see if there are really any differences in the hardware capability, or if it's simply a dev issue.

But how could we tell if the hardware was equal if the dev simply ported at the lowest common denominator?

[mandark]

But how could we tell if the hardware was equal if the dev simply ported at the lowest common denominator?
Then the only way to settle this is to compare exclusive titles that are similar to each other. For example GT4 vs PGR4, or Killzone vs Halo 4.

[joquito]

The Xbox360 TGS montage video on Gamespot is very impressive and quite long. There's a military game in it (I can't read japanese characters) that easily rivals Killzone in graphics. The question is how much is gameplay and how much is cutscenes? The same can be asked about the PS3 game videos.

BTW, I saw the MGS4 video and its nice but didn't wow me like the Killzone video. or the Xbox360 TGS video I mentioned above.

[Mochan]

Multiplats normally aren't lowest common denominator, though. Usually a higher class title looks dumbed down on the weaker system. If it seems like they're all the same then probably the hardware capabilities are very similar.

Otherwise, we can do what mandark said. People have no trouble comparing PGR to GT and so we all know the XBox is a tougher nut.

[T.Tashi]

I read some tech sleuths took a really close look at the Killzone footage and spotted some clipping. Dunno how true that is.

Snake IS old. If MGS3 is supposed to the the 1960s, and assuming Snake is in this early 20s, then by MGS1, he would have to be at least in his 50s.

[Cuddly Knife]

Psst, don't tell anyone, but that's not Solid Snake in MGS3. It's Big Boss.

[T.Tashi]

Psst, don't tell anyone, but that's not Solid Snake in MGS3. It's Big Boss.
I forgot how convoluted the Metal Gear storyline is. That's what I get for ignoring the narrative. :P

[folken001]

I forgot how convoluted the Metal Gear storyline is. That's what I get for ignoring the narrative. :P

I don't remember where I read this. But, it said that Snake is old because he was infected by the foxdie virus....

But the trailer does look good. Octacon's robot looks funny.

[T.Tashi]

I don't remember where I read this. But, it said that Snake is old because he was infected by the foxdie virus....

But the trailer does look good. Octacon's robot looks funny.
Judging from the video, that may be the case. Why does Snake look like Tom Selleck?

[folken001]

Judging from the video, that may be the case. Why does Snake look like Tom Selleck?
Because Konami is trying to make MGS4 more like Magnum, P.I.

[Cuddly Knife]

I think Snakes oldness is more because of the whole cloning deal that went down to create the "Sons of Big Boss". The surviving three all were supposedly born at the same time, but Solidus looked the oldest, while Solid lookes older than Liquid, and Ocelot mentioned something at the end of Twin Snakes about Solid being the weaker brother. He wasn't affected by Foxdie in Twin Snakes.

[Mochan]

Finally saw it. Picture was really small, which was annoying, and not very well-compressed but it got the point across.

Again, I'm expecting this kind of graphical quality for PS3 and even 360 titles. It really just falls on the developer whether they can create this level of graphical detail. Graphics similar to that that are already almost achievable on the PC, it's just that most developers don't have the vision/resources to do it, or would rather not because lower level PCs would not be able to play the game properly and thus they would limit their market.. We already see effects and style like that in PC games, just not chockfull on the entire screen. Of course having all those effects on screen will slow down the game, but I can play screens with half the effects like that though slightly dumbed down on my PC at 1280x1024, and my PC isn't anywhere near modern. I would expect nothing less from the next gen consoles which have more power than the current average PC, and much the super high ends blow for blow.


That said, though, the MGS4 clip doesn't look like gameplay footage. I am assuming it is engine footage, but scripted and using various camera angles that you will not be using in-game.

[Cuddly Knife]

That said, though, the MGS4 clip doesn't look like gameplay footage. I am assuming it is engine footage, but scripted and using various camera angles that you will not be using in-game.
But that's he way it's been for every MGS trailer that I've seen. Flashy camera angles, but obvious gameplay footage. Evrything I've seen in a MGS trailer, I've been able to do in game.

[Mochan]

Could be, but the camera angles in this trailer seem a little unwieldy for actual gameplay. Then again, Konami's been on a roll for having bad camera angles in their games lately. :Lament of Innocence ::shudder::

Also the trailer for MGS2 wasn't all like this. We had a lot of pseudo-isometric topdown views in that trailer. The start of the trailer is obviously not gameplay footage; that's from a soldier's point of view and Snake zips out of nowhere to take him out. It might be an intro cutscene, that entire thing might be the intro cutscene (probably not though... part of it is probably). It looks to me like an orchestrated cutscene using the ingame engine.

It could be that the camera angles are purposefully being done like that to make it less like a game and more like a movie; I don't know. If it works out, great. The way Snake pulled out his knife while backing up against a wall and swinging to look around it looked like something you could do in game, and which you usually do in game. So you may be right, it could be real gameplay at that point.