Revolution?

[Pandarbock]

Well surprising no one has posted it yet, but here is a preview break down with pics of the much secretive controller. What do you all think? I think it could work for some game genres but seems like some will be questionable.

http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-23521-2567-x-x-x&tag=gs_hp_flashtop_read

[Renzatic Gear]

Sounds cool, it could end up being as revolutionary as Nintendo is claiming...but really it's still as big an if as it was before we knew anything about it.

[Fivespot]

Hmm. Didn't know the controller was revealed until this thread.

It seems like it will work and should really create a bunch of new gaming opportunities which is certainly well needed. Lots have been complaining or joking about an XBOX 1.5 but the next-gen leap really isn't leaping very far. Sure, an improvement in graphics, more HD support, more computer features like MP3 files and such, blah, blah... Nintendo is bold enough to try something brand spankin' new and based on N's track record and after reading the Gamespot article - I'm excited to try it out. I will await passing judgement until I can actually get my hands on it and take it for a test point and rotate.

Predicting how it will feel and how much more engaged it will make you within the game will only truly be known when you've had a few minutes or hours checking it out IMO.

[Renzatic Gear]

Maybe I spoke a bit too early. I went ahead and read a bit more about it and have come to realise that this could be the best controller for 3D games ever concieved...at the very least it'll give the tried and true keyboard/mouse combo a run for it's money.

Think about it like this. You're controlling an FPS character with an analog pad. You're stuck with limited range of movements, your max rotation speed is dialed at a set limit, and it's clunky and counter intuitive. Not very good for FPS games considering that you don't pivot your head around like a robot with a giant ball bering for a neck.

Now take a laser pointer and focus on a part of the room with a bunch of crap in it. Point the laser at a book on a shelf, then whip it as fast as you can to the lampshade on the desk...now take the pointer and move it leisurely to a dresser drawer. Total control, perfect precision, far more natural and realistic than what you'd get from an analog pad. This is what it's like to play 3D games with a mouse, and the Revolution's controller looks like it could mimic that very easily...and at first glance it almost seems like it'd be more natural and comfortable to boot.

Ignore the fact that it looks like a glorified remote control...once you start thinking about how it's wandlike features could be implemented in games you'll realise just how cool it actually is.

[theWacoKid]

What's to think, its a frickin tv remote. Not even a game to show it off which means nintendo themselves have no idea what to do with this thing, just some crude demos to show off how it works and how it might conceivably play out. All this is, is an extension of the touch screen from the DS, except now your tv is one big large touch screen without the tactile feedback. Unless rumble motors are your idea of tactile feedback.

Worse than I thought it would be. Analog control is in the form of an attachment. WTF is that all about? A one handed analog stick? I hate this already. I'm going to have twist and flick and point a tv remote in one hand while attempting analog control with the other hand and people think this is innovation and progress?! This is stupid!

The DS and its touch screen is easy to use and intuitive. Hell, we've drawn since we were children, and we've pointed at things with sticks, we use pencils and pens, so a touch screen is something we can immediately be comfortable with. But, when was the last time your tv remote left you with a warm fuzzy feeling? How about never.

There's nothing intuitive about the revolution controller setup or ergonomic. This is just nintendo wanting to differentiate themselves from the industry and become their own little island with their own little fanbase free from third party competition. Well, they've succeeded. Why they kept this a secret is beyond me. Who in their right mind would want to copy a design like this?

Next question, is nintendo going to bring out this system or are they just going to think about bringing it out. I think you can kiss off a 2006 release for the rev. By the time nintendo figures out what to do, it'll be 2007 at least.

[Renzatic Gear]

I think you're wanting to pan the controller simply to have something to pan, Waco. If you use a bit of imagination you'll see that the thing is absolutely amazing.

Nintendo said it'd be easy to copy, they were definately right about that...and truth be told I hope Sony and MS do copy the design and add their own flair to the mix. 3D games are limited in what they can do on the consoles because of their reliance on clunky gamepads, FPS games for instance have to have enemies placed in easy to target areas so that they're quickly accessable by the analog pads...this isn't an issue with the PC, and with the wand it won't be an issue on the consoles either.

Course a controller, no matter how good it is, will help Nintendo move Revolutions. We need some good games to use the controller with.

[Gadfly2317]

I think you're wanting to pan the controller simply to have something to pan, Waco. If you use a bit of imagination you'll see that the thing is absolutely amazing.


Waco has no imagination or foresight. He said way back that the DS touch screen and two screens were a stupid gimmick, the system would feature a bunch of N64 ports, and that the PsP with its analog nub thingy was the wave of the future. We've seen which he threw in the trash, though it was easy to see how many cool new things would be done with the DS hardware.

With the Rev set-up, imagine that same control applied to Halo. . . how fast and fluid that could be. I know I'm looking forward to the new Metroid game more than ever--a game that's been in development for awhile now--despite Waco's retarded conclusion that the basic tech demos mean there's no games and Nintendo doesn't know what it plans to do with this control. Just like he said last year that Nintendo had no idea what it planned to do with the DS hardware. :rolleyes: Isn't he ashamed to keep flopping around like a fish out of water with this stuff?

The most exciting thing was the author's description of the flying demo. Imagine that applied to games like Crimson Skies, Pilot Wings, or a true Star Fox game. One thing's for sure, not every game breaks new ground; but with Ps3 and 360, well worn franchises and genres WILL play essentially the same because the controller is the same--the only thing different is graphics and perhaps AI. Rev will have great graphics and AI (even if it doesn't approach Ps3's terracowflops) but more importantly, the interface and experience will be much more fresh and intuitive.

I don't understand if Waco even carefully read the hands-on when he makes claims like "there's nothing intuitive or ergonomic about it" which runs completely contrary to the hands on report from people who've actually used the thing. It also runs counter to the glowing praise from developers who've commented on it, such as Peter Molyneux. The author of the article held the thing, used it, and specifically referred to it as Ergonomic; yet Waco sees, in his repeatedly failing foggy crystal ball, that its "not ergonomic."

What a cranky blind old maid.

[Pandarbock]

Really the controller is nothing more than a gyration mouse. Having tried one before I can say they are quite accurate and easy to use. The controller is alot like I imagined it would be when I said it might be like a gyration mouse many months ago. Anyway I am not sure that people understand the freedom of movement the thing can sense, it can detect up, down, left, right, forward, backwards, and pitch (tilt). I imagine a game for example like zelda, where you use the analog attachment to move and the mouse remote to swing a sword or throw a bomb. Anyway here is an interesting little concept video that gives you some ideas of what might be done with it.

http://media.cube.ign.com/articles/651/651334/vids_1.html

[Gadfly2317]

http://media.cube.ign.com/articles/651/651334/vids_1.html

Interesting trailer showing people using the Rev control (but not what's happening on screen.) The possibilities should fire the imagination of any gamer with a pulse.

IGN's hands-on is also a really good read.

I'm so sick of interfacing with games primarily via buttons; how much more visceral to swing a sword this way? Hacking and slashing through a dungeon might actually be fun again!

What I wouldn't give for Square to bring us online Bushido Blade for the Revolution.

[Gadfly2317]

Anyway I am not sure that people understand the freedom of movement the thing can sense, it can detect up, down, left, right, forward, backwards, and pitch (tilt).

That's what I was wondering, if the howling detractor got this part. You could actually do a first person fencing game with this since it also would detect the lunge direction. That's why I was thinking about Bushido Blade Online. Square has already indicated they are doing stuff for the Rev; what better series to revive? (Or am I the lone Bushido Blade fan?)

[Gadfly2317]

Sorry about multiple posts in a row, but I just spotted this interview with the head of nintendo's european marketting. http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=11574

It is a seriously interesting interview, not for Nintendo fans so much, but just about the industry, marketing, costs, and innovation (it was interesting to see him be so complimentary of Sony's innovations in the interview.)

[theWacoKid]

You know, there's a lot of people on other message boards that think this design is pretty whack, so dont' even try to paint my impressions as representing some minority crackpot opinion. Because that isn't the case.

And you know, gadfly, you're so predictable, no matter what nintendo does, you're going to jerk yourself into an orgasm, just because its nintendo.

I stated my objections to the DS initially, that they were shoehorning analog control into a game like Super Mario DS without any analog control. That three different control systems for a game, none of which worked properly, was stupid, and it was. A bunch of tech demos masquerading as games were released like Pac Pix and Yoshi's Touch n go and these were reviewed by several parties and aptly referred to as gimmicky games. Many of the games still aren't utilizing the dual screens effectively. Does Meteos? No. Second screen is largely cosmetic. What about Kirby? No, just for mapping functions.

I stated what I would have like to have seen, a vertically oriented pda style handheld relying on stylus control and I still stand by that. I would've preferred that better for DS play. As for the psp, when did I refer to the analog nub as the wave of the future. If you want analog control, you stick in analog control. I haven't bought a single game for the DS that didn't feature stylus based input. I wouldn't touch metroid prime hunters, not after playing the demo which WAS an ergonomic nightmare. Small suprise to me, nintendo delayed the game.

Just wait, spanky, we'll see. Who wants to lay bets the rev doesn't see light of day till 2007. Any takers. How about you, gadfly, you're so frickin sure the rev is a lock. But, then you guys were all laughing at me, silly Waco, sold your gamecube, and we'll be playing zelda in november and you won't. Remember that, boyz, because I certainly do. What happened there. You know what I think happened? Nintendo intentionally held back zelda because the rev is so far off they need something big to keep nintendbots salivating over until they crank out rev who knows when.

If you got something to show, you show it. When you don't, you make with the tech demos and from what I read, this stuff was pretty coarse. And putzing around briefly with a tech demo is nothing like playing a game for hours on end. Nintendo has had oodles of time to put together something next gen, something impressive to demonstrate this new paradigm of control and user interface, so where is it, why are you guys having to use your imagination. BAH! Lame! Yes, boys and girls, heaven forbid we demonstrate next gen control, just believe us, for we are nintendo, the gods of gaming. That might work for the worshippers of Iwata who have FAITH in nintendo and consider Miyamoto a religious icon. I say, show me the MONEY!

All that talk of RTS games on the DS gadfly, that make all this wonderful use of the stylus. So, where are they, anyway. Advance Wars plays just as well using conventional control. What happened to your big revolution. When are we going to see some truly creative use of the second screen, you know something that couldn't have been done by just making a game split screen. In the end, gadfly, the DS is still a gimmick, just a more interesting gimmick than I thought, but, and this is a big but, with the exception of Advance Wars, I've played gba games for far longer periods of time than any of my DS games. My DS games I can only play in bursts of a half hour or so. Quick pick and up and play but definitely not immersive gaming. I played the conventional gba games like Minnish Cap and Mario and Luigi for far more hours than any of my DS games save Advance Wars which in truth isn't that much different from its gba predecessor.

If it weren't for the gba side, I don't know how much I'd actually be playing the DS. So,for me, the DS is still a gimmick system.

[Gadfly2317]

You know, there's a lot of people on other message boards that think this design is pretty whack, so dont' even try to paint my impressions as representing some minority crackpot opinion. Because that isn't the case.

And you know, gadfly, you're so predictable, no matter what nintendo does, you're going to jerk yourself into an orgasm, just because its nintendo.

There you go, another logical fallacy, attacking the poster and not the content. And what's sad, is its just wrong; I don't praise nintendo no matter what they do, and in fact didn't bother picking up an N64 until years after its release, dirt cheap and used, because I disliked MANY things about it.

And another logical fallacy "The Band Wagon" fallacy. So you found a bunch of yahoos on message boards who thing it "is whack." First, knowing now how the control works--as a gamer this thing has total fired my imagination, and I would feel this way no matter who was introducing this controller--that's why I used examples of this controller in relation to Halo and Crimson Skies. Second, based on Nintendo's succesful history of control and hardware design innovations, and the strong positive reactions of game developers and those who've had hands on, I hope you'll forgive me for not handing my brain over to some negative, unimaginitve message board chimps.

If you got something to show, you show it. When you don't, you make with the tech demos and from what I read, this stuff was pretty coarse. You do know that this is just horsesh!t don't you? Were you born yesterday and just took up gaming this afternoon? You are well aware Nintendo's history of playing its cards close and keeping secrets. As far as looking coarse, I'm sure you've already read this at IGN but are happy to just spin your own web of BS:

"To show off its features, Nintendo designed a series of crude gameplay demos. Since it did such a good job of helping us understand how the controller works, we'll describe them in detail in the following paragraphs. None of them ran on the Revolution graphics hardware. They were strictly to demonstrate certain features."

Who wants to lay bets the rev doesn't see light of day till 2007. Any takers. How about you, gadfly, you're so frickin sure the rev is a lock. Did I ever say I was sure it was a lock for 2006? I do know that the trailer they showed at TGS said 2006 in big bold letters. But I am well aware of Nintendo's history of delaying games and systems until they are done right. You will never see me take a bet about Nintendo meeting a release date.

When did you ever turn into such a boring graphics whore? As a gamer, you really aren't even remotely enthusiastic or intruiged by this? I would expect TMG to give us indepth analysis like "ha ha it looks like a remote control" but I really did think you had a little more imagination in you than that, regardless if I've given you some hell lately about your 360 flip flop.

[Mochan]

The conceptualization seems stupid at first when you consider it's designed to be a remote, but the controller is going the way I want it to go.

It's basically a light gun right now as it is, and I've said before that I wanted a lightgun type application for FPS gaming. This is the controller that will do it.

If anyone recalls in the lightgun discussion, I was hoping for some kind of combo with a lightgun type device for aiming and an additional unit for movement; Rev is giving us exactly that with the pointer/analogue attachment combo.

The article says that Nintendo is still able to dream up ideas which players never expected. I think that some gamers here aren't too surprised though, I do recall a few people here predicting that the controller would be gyroscopic and allow you to track a cursor depending on how you point the controller at the screen. I am not surprised at the new controller's basic concept, as it is the next logical evolution but I do admit I am surprised that it looks like a DVD remote control! :P

Needless to say I am very excited over the prospects despite how dumb it looks.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

HAAAAA HARDY HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

Okay, somebody put a thread up for the real controller pictures. Real funny guys, putting a thread to a remote controller. So, that's the remote, but where is the controller?


Wait a minute. You guys are serious. This is the nuttiest thing i've ever seen in my life.
Oh ummm wait....a Nintendo rep just showed up at my door, he is pointing something funny at me....aahhhhhhhhh!

This is TMG please disregard any previous statements. The Nintendo Corporation contains some of the brightest minds working hard to entertain the masses. The Nintendo Corporation is full of creativity and ingenuity. Their new controller is the work of decades of research and will usher forth a new Revolution in gaming. Searching the cosmos for the best type of input of device, The Nintendo Corporation was astonish to learn, everyone had been using such a device for decades. Yes, the common remote control, has been deemed the most appropriate interface for gaming. Just by looking at the device, which has no name as of yet, simply because it is not a regular controller, nor is it a remote, it is something, different! Like Blade! Just by looking at 'The Device' I have been converted. I am richly anticipating playing Donky Kong Warriors and Mario Bros 100. Now, however, I am off to my local videogame retail establishment to buy an Gamecube to satiate me. Thank you, and remember, The Nintendo Corporation invented the internet.

[Mochan]

The DS and its touch screen is easy to use and intuitive. Hell, we've drawn since we were children, and we've pointed at things with sticks, we use pencils and pens, so a touch screen is something we can immediately be comfortable with. But, when was the last time your tv remote left you with a warm fuzzy feeling? How about never.

How about, "We've been using remote controls and pointing them at TV since we were children, so a remote pointer is something we can immediately be comfortable with."

No game to show off how it works? You saw how it was adapted to Metroid and the reactions to it.

"The attachment basically gave the game a much more PC-first-person-shooter feel thanks to the ability to free-look and aim with the main controller by moving it anywhere you wanted."

Now *that's* what I wanted to hear. This is only a step backward for someone who can't get his head out of the traditional gamepad approach.

Gamepads are great but they were designed for 2D games and, in a limited way, third person 3D games with a flying perspective, but they are not the ideal setup for a first person experience (or a lot of other possibilities, like precision shooting hoops as the demo has shown).



I've been trying to dream up of better ways to control games for a long time and this kind of scheme was one of the answers I came up with. It's good to know Miyamoto came up with the same answer. It gives me hope for gaming.

What I am wondering though is how the controller will provide backwards compatibility. Will there be a separate controller attachment for gamepad-style control, or an adater for Gamecube/N64 controllers?



That's what I was wondering, if the howling detractor got this part. You could actually do a first person fencing game with this since it also would detect the lunge direction.

Yup! And it's better than the concept I had before; I wanted to see a fighting/boxing game that used two mice to control your hands. Left mouse for left hand, right mouse for right hand and the hands would move where you put the mouse. This will certainly be able to do that concept, only better.

[Brendon]

This is, is, well, it's a proper 3D gamepad, Waco can say whatever the hell he wants, but this is where gaming wants to head, away from the 2D confines of controllers we've had since the 2600.

What's going to rock, my bets say Starfox, F Zero and with any luck, a new version of NiGHTS.

PS-VR headset-please.

[Darwin]

I wonder if I'll be able to switch controller to the opposite hands as the one's shown in the article. I.e. hold the "remote" or main unit in my left hand, so I could use that to point. If so, score one for Nintendo looking out for us left-handers.

[Darwin]

This is just nintendo wanting to differentiate themselves from the industry and become their own little island with their own little fanbase free from third party competition. Well, they've succeeded.

Well good. The market does not need another console that is doing what the others are already doing. Different tactics appeal to different gamers.

There needs to be a mixture of mainstream-hardcore-quirky types of products available in any industry. Think about cars, for example. Most cars sold are of the mainstream type: your typical coup or Truck or SUV. And that satisfies the needs of most consumers, like me. I own an Accord. But then there is a small part of the population who needs exotic or more hardcore vehicles. That's why there are luxury and performance vehicles. When it comes to my own car, I want simplicity and reliability, so I am with the mainstream on this subject.

Same thing goes for music. Most people just want their plain, mainstream music served to them via top-40 radio. Not me. When it comes to music, I like the less-popular music, often times the heavy stuff than few listen to. I am not with the mainstream when it comes to this subject.

Why can't we have it this way for gaming?

[Mochan]

Who wants to lay bets the rev doesn't see light of day till 2007. Any takers. How about you, gadfly, you're so frickin sure the rev is a lock.

Yet another Strawman from the Overlord of Straw.

When did you ever turn into such a boring graphics whore? As a gamer, you really aren't even remotely enthusiastic or intruiged by this?

Hell, *I'm* a graphics whore (like many PC gamers) and I'm intrigued by this.

Just by looking at the device, which has no name as of yet, simply because it is not a regular controller, nor is it a remote, it is something, different! Like Blade! Just by looking at 'The Device' I have been converted. I am richly anticipating playing Donky Kong Warriors and Mario Bros 100.

In fairness though, I do understand that this setup can be quite limiting and will make it very difficult to produce "conventional" games. Standard side-by-side 2D or 3D fighter? Forget it. Even a platformer like the old Mario or Zelda games will be difficult to do; you will really have to create new kinds of games for this controller.

The old kinds of games that you can immediately create with this kind of controller are PC games; the remote is more like a mouse than a gamepad and will lend itself well to FPS, RTS, TBS and other menu-driven games like you usually see on PCs (and sometimes on consoles) but it will make the usual Third Person games a little harder to swallow, we'll need some changes to the basic design.

Again, as I've said before, the controller dictates the kind of games we see and this really will change the way we game... on the Nintendo. As to whether it will revolutionize the entire gaming scene, that I am doubtful of but we shall see. I wouldn't be surprised though if MS or Sony release a similar kind of peripheral somewhere down the line, and I wouldn't be surprised if said peripheral gets no support (like the PS mouse).

Waco also has a point in saying that this kind of thing can only isolate Nintendo even more on their own little island. Now the question is whether that little island grows up to rival the rest of the "gaming countries." It's quite possible that it will but again, we shall see.

[Mochan]

I wonder if I'll be able to switch controller to the opposite hands as the one's shown in the article. I.e. hold the "remote" or main unit in my left hand, so I could use that to point. If so, score one for Nintendo looking out for us left-handers.

What I am also curious about is whether you can turn the remote counter-clockwise and turn it into a NES/Famicom gamepad. You know, since the Rev is supposed to be B/C. It would look like the old NES gamepad, without any ergonomics whatsoever! LOL.

Or will there be an adapter that you can connect all the old controllers to? Or will there be a separate "old school" controller? There are more questions I want answered.

Still, bottomline, the Rev is looking sweeter and sweeter although I admit I will probably miss the graphical splendor that will come with the other consoles. But hey, not every game needs to look that good. As long as it's enjoyable, I'll live, and the Rev should still be able to give us graphics beyond anything the current console market can offer. I really hope Sony or MS steals this idea though the implementation of that looks very far away.

[Fivespot]

What I am also curious about is whether you can turn the remote counter-clockwise and turn it into a NES/Famicom gamepad. You know, since the Rev is supposed to be B/C. It would look like the old NES gamepad, without any ergonomics whatsoever! LOL.

Yes, that is exactly what this controller can do. By rotating it, the lower buttons become the old A & B combination allowing the controller to function just like the old NES pad. This is a must if Nintendo plans to make there back catalog available for download.

Folks concerned that this won't allow the old-school 2D gaming - can think again!

[iVirtual]

IMO nintendo was dead, last generation basically killed them, at least in the console market, now, their handheld market, although still strong, seems to be slowing down against the PSP. But i have to give it them, this controller may be the one thing that brings them back from the dead. We will see what they can do with this, but I think it is very attractive and if executed correctly, a lot of people will buy it.

[Gadfly2317]

Waco also has a point in saying that this kind of thing can only isolate Nintendo even more on their own little island. Now the question is whether that little island grows up to rival the rest of the "gaming countries." It's quite possible that it will but again, we shall see.

I definitely agree with that. It also gives illiterate gamers who only look at pictures, like TMG, the opportunity to yell "remote control." I didn't address it before because I was more interested in what it actually does, but the thing does look silly and I see why it would freak out some people who can't conceive of anything they haven't already done.

Probably these same people woulda freaked back in the day at the concept of "what, no joy stick?!?!" when Nintendo introduced its gamepad. It's only fitting that Nintendo is the first company to leave behind that aging and limiting paradigm behind.

[Mochan]

Yes, that is exactly what this controller can do. By rotating it, the lower buttons become the old A & B combination allowing the controller to function just like the old NES pad. This is a must if Nintendo plans to make there back catalog available for download.

I didn't realize it but this was stated in the article, I was in a hurry reading it but now, after rereading, I realize my mistake.
This raises the issue of ergonomics though, the ergonomics of turning it like that are really shot. Also it looks like it can emulate FamiCom/SuperFamicom controls but not N64 and Cube controls. I think a better solution for B/C is needed.


Also, anyone else thinking that its remote-like form would serve the PS3 better considering the PS3 will also be a Blueray player? LOL.



I also think iVirtual has a point... just like Waco mentioned regarding the pushback of Zelda and how late the Rev will be. Nintendo might not be in the best of straits, and there may be a lot of spinning here to cover up an internal weakness. Personally I hope Nintendo won't go the way of Sega just yet, this controller has much potential and I respect Nintendo's attempts to bring something new to the table.

[Gadfly2317]

IMO nintendo was dead, last generation basically killed them, at least in the console market, now, their handheld market, although still strong, seems to be slowing down against the PSP. But i have to give it them, this controller may be the one thing that brings them back from the dead. We will see what they can do with this, but I think it is very attractive and if executed correctly, a lot of people will buy it.

Wow. Surprising response. I hadn't thought you'd have a positive response to this controller.

Just out of curiosity, why do you consider Nintendo dead in the console market? The 'cube has sold near 20 million units; Xbox is at at like 21 or 22, and Nintendo has sold more first party software this year than MS has, and despite declining profit margins, they still ran a profit all but one quarter of the entire consoles lifespan.

[trebor]

http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/651/651275/hands-on-the-revolution-controller-20050915054930644-000.jpg

Well, ok, I guess I understand why it's particularly suited for games like Pikmin, like Miyamoto-san had mentioned in a interview a few weeks back. Plus, from the sounds of it, it will be very well suited for FPS games. Racing games will be intuitive. Flight games will be intuitive. Hell, it sounds like it was made to play Super Monkey Ball as well.

I don't want to sound like a stick in the mud, but if this controller will lend itself to FPS, RTS, racing and flight games, it kinda leaves me feeling like this thing will be a revolutionary way to control unrevolutionary games.

That said, I'm really interested to see this applied to real games and not crude tech demos. I want to see what kind of games Nintendo will be building to show off it's true potential.

One question to the "it's a fricken TV remote" morons in this thread - when was the last time you used your TV remote to control objects on your tv with a real virtual 3D plane before? Even with my reservations, I can see the vast potential.

[Mochan]

By the way, my idea for the controller would have been something more like a PC flight stick than a remote. I would have wished Nintendo could conceptualize the look a litlte better.

Once I tried the concept of playing FPS games on PC with a joystick in my left hand and mouse in the right. The reason I came up with this idea was because my left hand fingers were suffering RSS from the un-ergonomic and unnatural position your fingers are forced into for WASD.

The idea was to get a flightstick type controller (which is very ergonimic) with a coolie hat on top for your thumb. This would serve as the WASD keys for movement. There would be a slew of buttons on the stick which would emulate whatever other buttons I use on the keyboard, and I could use the stick X and Y axis itself for other functions like weapon switching and zoom control. I would have access to less buttons, and it might not be 100% ideal but it would give me better ergonomics.

Now the reviewer said the Rev's "remote" was ergonomic but to be honest I have many doubts. It would be so much more ergonomic if your hand rested in a natural upright position (like holding a stick or pistol) rather than extended forward and down like when you hold a remote. Give it a little curve and grip, and then add buttons to the side like a flightstick. I think this design would be far superior to the remote shape to the straight-laced remote control shape which frankly isn't contoured in any way to fit your hand (other than the small indentation where the B button is).

I dunno if it's just "first generation" blues that prompted this kind of lack of ergonomic design (I mean the original FamiCom control had no ergonomics whatsoever) or whether Nintendo was trying to make the controller look as familiar as possible (remote looks very familiar but the design I am proposing is very bizarre, maybe even to flightstick jockeys). Or maybe Nintendo was concerned about b/c and made it this way so you could turn it around and transform to a FamiCom gamepad.

Regardless I think that the controller is not very ergonomic. I actually agree with Waco on this one. Ouch, admitting that hurt more than I thought it would....

[Mochan]

BTW, after gazing at the pic trebor posted, I got to thinking two things.

The first is, "I hope the analogue addon pack were also wireless, or at least the cord were longer," because I would like to keep the left hand analogue closer to me while I may be waving the right hand one all over the place. I don't want to quickly move my right hand pointer far and away and have it jerk my left hand along with it, or worse, snap the analogue attachment off.

The second is, did any of you consider the possibility of wielding two of these controllers at the same time (one in each hand) to control one character or object on screen? That was the concept behind my dual mouse boxing game concept before. This gives an almost unprecedented level of control possibility.

The two controls could map to your hands perfectly. In a boxing game, imagine how revolutionary and utterly beyond anything this would be. Every single move your hands make reflects to what your electronic avatar does. First person boxing where you could enter into a peek-a-boo guard just by holding both of your real hands to your face like a real boxer would; then when you punch you just punch like in real life.

This also gives you access to two trigger buttons and two directional pads! That would cover all your movement needs. It might be nice if there were an analogue stick variant of the controller in case you don't want dpads (those cause Nintendinitis!) or in case some games would benefit from analogue control better.

[Gadfly2317]

Regardless I think that the controller is not very ergonomic.

My biggest question about ergonomics is with it turned sideways for NES games. Other question: will the Rev be b/c with the wavebird for GC games?

Part of why the new controller appears to have good ergonomics to me--aside from the hands-on articles saying it was comfortable/ergonomic--is a couple things. One is the analog stick design. The distance between your thumb and the placement of your index finger on the two buttons isn't that far. The further the your hand is stretched out for repetitive trigger/shoulder movements, the worse it is on your hands; this is one of the reasons why the Ps2's low placement of its left analog stick/distance from shoulder buttons, vs the higher placement of the analog stick on the Xbox and GC controllers gives the Ps2 worse ergonomics.

Second ergonomic plus is the wand eliminates a lot of button usage on the right hand. I see you are mentioning RSS issues; I have hell with the same thing. I don't know about the D-pad on the wand, but by being able to control so much just through small aiming movements and using the index finger trigger and thumb-A button, I am positive this will put less stress on my tired gaming/typing/guitar playing hands.

I think Darwin's right about this working out well for lefties, too, since there the controls appear to be interchangeable between hands.

[trebor]

BTW, after gazing at the pic trebor posted, I got to thinking two things.

The first is, "I hope the analogue addon pack were also wireless, or at least the cord were longer," because I would like to keep the left hand analogue closer to me while I may be waving the right hand one all over the place. I don't want to quickly move my right hand pointer far and away and have it jerk my left hand along with it, or worse, snap the analogue attachment off.

That, at least, I'm confident won't be a problem. Keep in mind that what were seeing isn't quite the final design yet. Plus, the left handed analog trigger/stick thing is a separate device that plugs into the Rev controller - I'm sure they will be available with varying cord lengths.

[Mochan]

One is the analog stick design. The distance between your thumb and the placement of your index finger on the two buttons isn't that far. The further the your hand is stretched out for repetitive trigger/shoulder movements, the worse it is on your hands; this is one of the reasons why the Ps2's low placement of its left analog stick/distance from shoulder buttons, vs the higher placement of the analog stick on the Xbox and GC controllers gives the Ps2 worse ergonomics.

Yeah, I know what you mean. By the way, don't you mean d-pad and not analogue stick? (semantics quibble)

Remember the Batarang thread I made? I made this point, too. The batarang controller puts the buttons up further, making it easier to keep your hand in a natural position. The sticks also seemed a higher.

And about the lefties, this is probably also one reason why they stuck to an orthodox controller design rather than the weird design I was proposing. Flight sticks have that one problem (and this is the reason why I don't have one to try out my control theory on the PC) -- they are usually designed for right handers. Lefties are usually SOL.

Anyway, the thing looks game to be b/c with NES games but how about everything else? It doesn't look like it'll fit with, N64 or Gamecube or even SNES control schemes without any additional attachments.

Plus, the left handed analog trigger/stick thing is a separate device that plugs into the Rev controller - I'm sure they will be available with varying cord lengths.

I'd rather the left plug in be wireless as well. I hope, I hope!

[mandark]

http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/651/651275/hands-on-the-revolution-controller-20050915054930644-000.jpg

Well, ok, I guess I understand why it's particularly suited for games like Pikmin, like Miyamoto-san had mentioned in a interview a few weeks back. Plus, from the sounds of it, it will be very well suited for FPS games. Racing games will be intuitive. Flight games will be intuitive. Hell, it sounds like it was made to play Super Monkey Ball as well.

I don't want to sound like a stick in the mud, but if this controller will lend itself to FPS, RTS, racing and flight games, it kinda leaves me feeling like this thing will be a revolutionary way to control unrevolutionary games.

That said, I'm really interested to see this applied to real games and not crude tech demos. I want to see what kind of games Nintendo will be building to show off it's true potential.

One question to the "it's a fricken TV remote" morons in this thread - when was the last time you used your TV remote to control objects on your tv with a real virtual 3D plane before? Even with my reservations, I can see the vast potential.

I will have to say that I had mixed feelings regarding this controller as I read the article. First the feeling of dread when I saw what it looked like. First thing that came to mind is "WTF is THAT!". But as I read the article, especially about Metroid Prime, I started feeling more excited especially with the possibilities it can do. It can give total control in any FPS game.

The mouse may be the best now but it is limited. Unless you have a ten foot arm the mouse's movement is limited. You'll have to occasionally lift the mouse off the table to continue motion causing gaps in movement. This has cost me hundreds of virtual lives in CounterStrike. With the "remote" that problem goes away. If Nintendo does to MP: Hunters with this new controller what they did to Prime with the GC then this game is reason enough for me to purchase a REV.

Lastly, Trebor, remember that these unrevolutionay games are limited to the controller available now. Ever played a flight sim? They can be very frustrating if you don't have your eye on the bogey. Sure there are commands to look around the cockpit but those are very un-intuitive and can easily make you crash and burn. If done correctly this controller can give you the experience of actually being in the cockpit with a floating look command. It would be like turning your own head(I HOPE). 3D game developers should be keeping a keen eye on this controller.

[Gadfly2317]

Yeah, I know what you mean. By the way, don't you mean d-pad and not analogue stick? (semantics quibble.)

Well, I was talking about the analog stick (which has two buttons underneath) but then, yeah, the d-pad is keeps your thumb close to the index finger button as well. But it almost looks too close.

[mandark]

I just had another idea for a game this controller would be great for. Apache Combat Helicopter simulations. The actual aircraft has a function that allows the pilot to shoot what he/she is looking at because the mounted cannon is in a swivel that follows the helmets movement. Oh, man! I'm so excited!

A quick prayer: Please don't let us down Nintendo. Please!

[Mochan]

The mouse may be the best now but it is limited. Unless you have a ten foot arm the mouse's movement is limited. You'll have to occasionally lift the mouse off the table to continue motion causing gaps in movement. This has cost me hundreds of virtual lives in CounterStrike. With the "remote" that problem goes away.

Does it? I see another problem surfacing: how do you "reset" the controller back to the center? For mice if you run out of space moving left or right, you just lift the mouse and put it back in the center. How will this pan out for the remote?

This is why in the lightgun discussion I was thinking of using the gun more for just aiming in the screen you are already looking at, but for the actual axis turning movement we may want a different mechanic. Or we could have a limited mechanic were looking too far to the edge of the screen turns the view axis in that direction. There is much left to be worked out here in the mechanics, I'm sure. I've been trying to work out these mechanics for a while myself, but without testing I can't really conclude what the best way is.


And to Gadfly, oh so you really were talking about the analogue stick! LOL, my bad.

[Pandarbock]

As for setup of playing the old school setups, here is what Jim Merrick had to say:

http://www.revo-europe.com/news.php?nid=8247

Nintendo Europe's senior director of marketing says Revolution will have a classic style controller add-on, and hints it'll be fully playable next E3!

Speaking to Eurogamer, Merrick talked about how the new Revolution controller and "nunchuk" add-on will revolutionise gaming.

Asked why there was no software shown, he replied: "We went to great pains not to show the software today because we didn't want to detract from what we are trying to show. We're talking about a fundamental change to how we see games and how we play games, and we didn't want to get hung up on polygon counts and so on."

So when will we see them? Well, he hinted that if he went to E3 next year and didn't end up playing them, he'd be "very disappointed..."

The thorny issue of how games not designed specifically for the Revolution - multi-platform titles - will be played. He had the answer: "We're producing a classic-style expansion controller, based on traditional designs like the Gamecube controller. It's like a shell with a hole in the top into which you slot the freehand-style controller, and then you can play third-party ported games, and retro Nintendo games you've downloaded."

Even better, while it's inserted into the classic-style shell, the freehand controller will still be able to sense positioning, bringing more options to classic games.

Finally, Eurogamer asked this most interesting question: Is the freehand-style controller your trump card, or have we got more exciting stuff to look forward to? Jim Merrick's said in reply: "Let's just say we have more surprises in store."

[trebor]

I will have to say that I had mixed feelings regarding this controller as I read the article. First the feeling of dread when I saw what it looked like. First thing that came to mind is "WTF is THAT!". But as I read the article, especially about Metroid Prime, I started feeling more excited especially with the possibilities it can do. It can give total control in any FPS game.

The mouse may be the best now but it is limited. Unless you have a ten foot arm the mouse's movement is limited. You'll have to occasionally lift the mouse off the table to continue motion causing gaps in movement. This has cost me hundreds of virtual lives in CounterStrike. With the "remote" that problem goes away. If Nintendo does to MP: Hunters with this new controller what they did to Prime with the GC then this game is reason enough for me to purchase a REV.

Lastly, Trebor, remember that these unrevolutionay games are limited to the controller available now. Ever played a flight sim? They can be very frustrating if you don't have your eye on the bogey. Sure there are commands to look around the cockpit but those are very un-intuitive and can easily make you crash and burn. If done correctly this controller can give you the experience of actually being in the cockpit with a floating look command. It would be like turning your own head(I HOPE). 3D game developers should be keeping a keen eye on this controller.

I'm trying hard to figure out if it's control mechanics or the game themselves which make games "fun". Bad controls definitely can bring a good game down, but great controls can't make a bad game great, so I can see how new control mechanics will make genres I like that much better, but will in no way make me all of a sudden like genres that I don't right now.

It quite frankly is laughably ironic that the controller lends itself so well to FPS and racing games, after we slam the Xbox brand for being infested so greatly with them. Is Nintendo going to make hypocrites of us, by having the best platform for FPS games now?

Aside from that, I'm really waiting for some games, and how the controller will be used for them, before I start judging to rashly. I just hope that we get some fresh, new game experiences, instead of glorified versions of genres we have today.

[Mochan]

Ah, good. I was thinking we would need some expansion options to get it to work like a GC controller or what not, so this does seem to be the case.

And now the next question is: I wonder how many peripherals we will be able to snag out of the box? Do we get the nunchuk and classic expansion out of the box? I hope so.

[mandark]

Does it? I see another problem surfacing: how do you "reset" the controller back to the center? For mice if you run out of space moving left or right, you just lift the mouse and put it back in the center. How will this pan out for the remote?

Thats just it, you don't need to reset back to center. The way I see it the crosshair will be a freefloating icon on the screen. Its location will be dependent on where the "remote" will be pointed to. just like in real life, you don't need to move your whole torso just to sight a weapon, stick, whatever. To move your view separate from the directional movement a point in the screen can be designated where once the target reticule passes it then the screen will move in that direction. For example you want to look right without using the left analogue stick, you point the "remote" to the right edge and the screen will move. My concern will be the fluidity of the action. Will it be too slow or too fast. That will have to be ironed out.

[mandark]

I'm trying hard to figure out if it's control mechanics or the game themselves which make games "fun". Bad controls definitely can bring a good game down, but great controls can't make a bad game great, so I can see how new control mechanics will make genres I like that much better, but will in no way make me all of a sudden like genres that I don't right now.

It quite frankly is laughably ironic that the controller lends itself so well to FPS and racing games, after we slam the Xbox brand for being infested so greatly with them. Is Nintendo going to make hypocrites of us, by having the best platform for FPS games now?

Aside from that, I'm really waiting for some games, and how the controller will be used for them, before I start judging to rashly. I just hope that we get some fresh, new game experiences, instead of glorified versions of genres we have today.

That would be ironic wouldn't it? But that would be great ammunition against the "Kitty Console" taunt. ;) Imagine Mario with a .45 outclassing Master Chief in his own game. Schweeeet! Who knows REV may be the new home for FPS games.

But I don't see this controller for FPS games only. Like you said before it'll prove useful for any 3D type game. How about FP Luigi's mansion? Use the "remote" for the vacuum. (I know bad example) How about Mario Sunshine? Use the remote to shoot the water spout left/right while running in a different direction. How about Mario Cart? Finally, a chance to throw that banana in any other direction other than directly behind you! Last example? Precision shooting Duck Hunt. :D I could go on and on.

But of course all of these will depend on Nintendo's execution of this new device. I sure hope they don't fail. Nintendo has too many good ideas to share.

[Gadfly2317]

The thorny issue of how games not designed specifically for the Revolution - multi-platform titles - will be played. He had the answer: "We're producing a classic-style expansion controller, based on traditional designs like the Gamecube controller. It's like a shell with a hole in the top into which you slot the freehand-style controller, and then you can play third-party ported games, and retro Nintendo games you've downloaded."


Are we going to have to buy this "control" expansion separately, and how much will it cost? "Expansion" implies separate. "Then" you can play. . . doesn't imply being able to play downloaded content out of box.

[iVirtual]

Switch hands on the picture trebor poster and you would have a very cool driving game controller. Your right hand could control shift/acceleration, your left hand steering...

[mandark]

Switch hands on the picture trebor poster and you would have a very cool driving game controller. Your right hand could control shift/acceleration, your left hand steering...
OK, who are you and what did you do with the real iVirtual? :D

[Mochan]

It quite frankly is laughably ironic that the controller lends itself so well to FPS and racing games, after we slam the Xbox brand for being infested so greatly with them. Is Nintendo going to make hypocrites of us, by having the best platform for FPS games now?

Well the reason I slam the Xbox for that is because it makes the XBox a PC junior. I play FPS games a lot so I don't feel in any danger of being labelled a hypocrite; my issue was that the XBox version of FPS wasn't worth playing since a.) graphics are worse and b.) I prefer mouse control.

You may be a hypocrite if your argument was "FPS and Racers stink" but if it was more like "XBox only has FPS and Racers, it has no diversity" then you'll be okay.


To move your view separate from the directional movement a point in the screen can be designated where once the target reticule passes it then the screen will move in that direction.

I mentioned this above; this is basically the "scroll screen when mouse moves to the edge" option we see in RTS and TBS games.

The problem with that control scheme is I think it won't lend to well to performance FPS. I think every movement of the wand should still let you move your view immediately, rather than just aim and move view only if the cursor comes to the ends of the screen. Your movement just wouldn't be too fluid, I think.

Well this may just be mouse bias speaking.

The control scheme I had been fantasizing with for light gun was still to have the gun just for aiming the cursor on screen and not turning, have an eye toy strapped to your head for view turning, but this is separate from body turning which will be controlled by a separate controller (probably left hand controller). Gah well we shall see!

Are we going to have to buy this "control" expansion separately, and how much will it cost? "Expansion" implies separate. "Then" you can play. . . doesn't imply being able to play downloaded content out of box.

Yes, that's my concern as well. I hope we get these stuff out of the box, rather than have to buy them separately.


And yeah the analogue stick in your right hand for stick shifting, left for driving is funky. I always had this weird idea for driving games where I would get a driving wheel and a joystick... with no stick shift peripheral you'd be using a joystick to change gears, at least it feels like a stickshift! LOL.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

There are a number of reasons why this won't be ideal for FPS. You guys will see once you get your hands on it. 1st, I thought nobody cared about fps, you guys are so funny, always contradicting yourself.

The controller won't even get the chance to play the better FPS, because of the hardware limitations, developers who make the best FPS will skip right past the Revolution and focus on PS3 and 360. The fact that Nintendo has never been the home of FPS and has always focused on kids and that market, will keep big budget FPS off the system too.

Another thing, the controller really doesn't seem ideal for FPS. I know everyone is thinking about the little analog extender, but really all this is, is the left thumbstick on an XBOX controller. Its separated along with a trigger button. Big whoop! This makes things more complicated cause you can never relax. How can you wipe your nose, or scratch your arse, you have to always hold either controller. Also, if the thumbstick can function as a button, like the XBOX thumbsticks, its gonna be hard to push it down and aim at the same time. Its also going to make it impossible to push in a button and keep it depressed while doing some other function. The reason is the controls are separated. On a single controller, you can still get leverage from one hand while manipulating the other. Its going to be hard to do things like Jump, duck, zoom in, change weapons, give commands. Basically, this is going to be real limited. On the XBOX controller or even PS2 you have two sticks and a D-PAD, now u have a D-PAD and one stick.

There is a reason why the traditional controller looks the way it does and operates the way it does. Refinement over the years has lead us to the type of controllers we use. This thing is going to be less adapted to more games than a traditional controller. I don't think Nintendo has the kind of games in mind that you would play on 360 or PS3, they are going to tailor their games around this controller. And that is cool. But that is going to hurt 3rd party development. So things will be as normal on Revvy. Sporadic 1st party support and limited 3rd.

[mandark]

(snip the nonsense)
Let me use your own words against you.

Do you own a GC? Did you buy anything Nintendo? Since you are not even a Nintendo gamer why does any of this concerns you? - :P

You can be as close minded as you want TMG but it will not stop the free thinkers from seeing the potential of this controller or the Developers from that matter. So sit back, wait 2 more months for your Xbox 1.5 and same old controller for games that comes with auto aim.

[Mochan]

1st, I thought nobody cared about fps, you guys are so funny, always contradicting yourself.

Huh? I love FPS, and have never said otherwise.

The controller won't even get the chance to play the better FPS, because of the hardware limitations, developers who make the best FPS will skip right past the Revolution and focus on PS3 and 360.

That means that the Rev may not be the platform of choice for the controller, but that doesn't mean the controller isn't ideal for FPS.

This makes things more complicated cause you can never relax. How can you wipe your nose, or scratch your arse, you have to always hold either controller.

You can wipe your nose with the left hand while the controller is in it. If you need to scratch your butt while playing, I suggest you press the pause button. That's what I do even on the PC.

I concede that you don't get leverage so it will be harder to use the other buttons on the controller, like it will be very hard to use the small a/b buttons if you are also using the nunchuk, but I think you're not supposed to use those buttons while using the nunchuck extension.

Those can be worked out with designing the game to work with enough buttons. Worse comes to worst you have a button to bring up a menu (like how in Zelda you have to access other stuff with a menu, same in Morrowind, same in many other games). You have less buttons to work with than a normal modern gamepad but I think it's not more limiting; certainly just using a right thumbstick for aiming is far more limiting.

Also, if the thumbstick can function as a button, like the XBOX thumbsticks, its gonna be hard to push it down and aim at the same time.

I don't understand what you mean. The thumbstick is in the left hand, the aiming unit is in your right hand.




Basically, this is going to be real limited. On the XBOX controller or even PS2 you have two sticks and a D-PAD, now u have a D-PAD and one stick.

OMG! I only have a D-Pad and one Stick, I don't have a device that is tracked dynamically in the air that replaced the right analogue stick which is not very good at aiming at all! OMG!

That is the silliest thing I've heard all day, sillier than "It's just a stupid remote!" I mean did you miss the point of the entire controller?!



There is a reason why the traditional controller looks the way it does and operates the way it does. Refinement over the years has lead us to the type of controllers we use.

There is a reason why I never use the traditional controller for FPS games, and why the RTS genre is dead on consoles. And it's probably the same reason why lots of people are complaining about stagnation in consoles and how PS3 and 360's nextgen doesn't seem like nextgen, but rather just shinier graphics.

Again, I've always said that the controller has a big impact on the kind of game you play, and I'm sure this one will have a large impact on the kind of games you see on the Rev. Whether this will be a good thing or not, I don't know. I also don't know how well third party devs will support this, Peter Molyneux may like it but... that's Peter Molyneux we're talking about.

I've said the controller will not lend to certain games, I think that's a no brainer but it will open the doors to new kinds of games. We can only hope that new, good games will come out as a result.

I do know that the controller has a lot of potential for FPS games (which was the original point of this discussion).

[Gadfly2317]

How can you wipe your nose, or scratch your arse, you have to always hold either controller.
We always did peg you for a snivelling ass scratcher. I think we can say with no doubt: The Revolution was not meant for YOU.

There are a number of reasons why this won't be ideal for FPS. You guys will see once you get your hands on it. 1st, I thought nobody cared about fps, you guys are so funny, always contradicting yourself.

Whether or not we care about first person shooters doesn't mean we can't recognize when a peripheral enters the market that will improve the console FPS interface. That said, I agree with you that the Rev isn't going to suddenly become the FPS console, and I seriously doubt Nintendo or Miyamoto or the fanbase are suddenly gonna start going FPS. I think its pretty obvious by now Nintendo is a bit more creative than to limit itself to FPS's.

Also, when you say "you guys". . . who are you talking about? I have oft thrashed on Xbox for its overreliance on a shooters and racers and that those are a couple of the genres most prone to cliche and repetition, but I still play some shooters and racers. As far as who else you could be referring to with "you guys" is beyond me.

[mandark]

We always did peg you for a snivelling ass scratcher. I think we can say with no doubt: The Revolution was not meant for YOU.



Whether or not we care about first person shooters doesn't mean we can't recognize when a peripheral enters the market that will improve the console FPS interface. That said, I agree with you that the Rev isn't going to suddenly become the FPS console, and I seriously doubt Nintendo or Miyamoto or the fanbase are suddenly gonna start going FPS. I think its pretty obvious by now Nintendo is a bit more creative than to limit itself to FPS's.

Also, when you say "you guys". . . who are you talking about? I have oft thrashed on Xbox for its overreliance on a shooters and racers and that those are a couple of the genres most prone to cliche and repetition, but I still play some shooters and racers. As far as who else you could be referring to with "you guys" is beyond me.

I guess you can always duct-tape an ass scratcher to the end of the "remote". Or maybe Nintendo will come up with an ass scratcher peripheral add on just for TMG. :D

I can't believe how narrow minded some of these bots have been. I've given Treb some examples on how you can use this controller for games in existance now. Heck, this controller can even be used for RTS games. Point, click, point, drag, click. How much easier can it get?

[mandark]

I mentioned this above; this is basically the "scroll screen when mouse moves to the edge" option we see in RTS and TBS games.

The problem with that control scheme is I think it won't lend to well to performance FPS. I think every movement of the wand should still let you move your view immediately, rather than just aim and move view only if the cursor comes to the ends of the screen. Your movement just wouldn't be too fluid, I think.

Well this may just be mouse bias speaking.

The control scheme I had been fantasizing with for light gun was still to have the gun just for aiming the cursor on screen and not turning, have an eye toy strapped to your head for view turning, but this is separate from body turning which will be controlled by a separate controller (probably left hand controller). Gah well we shall see!
I did mention the concern about the fluidity but thats for the developers to worry about. As long as the control works then thats fine by me. But like you said, we all have to wait and see.

Your lightgun controller setup is the most ideal way to do this. But the drawback is there will be too many controllers the gamer has to worry about. Gamers who have been baby sat with Auto-aim may have real difficulty adjusting to two controllers and you are proposing 3! Another drawback is cost. That is going to be one expensive setup.

[Mochan]

It'll definitely be expensive! That's why it's my fantasy setup, heheh.

And again, in the end of the day the real concern is whether the devs will be willing to support the hardware. Even good hardware dies if no software exists to use on it.

[trebor]

So in the end Rev might get a lot of 1st and 2nd party support but very little 3rd party support. We will see a lot of Mario tennis, soccer, paint and Zelda but no FIFA soccer, Halflife2, NFL, Burnout, Battlefield 2 or Quake 4...

We will have to wait and see what developers can do or are willing to do.

I'm not so sure that developers won't be able to port over FPS games, in the very least. The controller's mechanics will act very similarly to the current kb/mouse setups, so mapping out the control schemes I would think be easier on it then a standard gamepad.

So, to your second statement - I think the developers CAN do, but the WILLING part is the big question.

[iVirtual]

OK, who are you and what did you do with the real iVirtual? :D


heheh..well I have to recognize when a company does something right..right?

however, i think someone made this point already:

3rd party developers might skip developing for Rev and go straight for 360 and PS3 with their AAA titles unless there is a way to seamlessly adapt those games to the rev controller.

So in the end Rev might get a lot of 1st and 2nd party support but very little 3rd party support. We will see a lot of Mario tennis, soccer, paint and Zelda but no FIFA soccer, Halflife2, NFL, Burnout, Battlefield 2 or Quake 4...

We will have to wait and see what developers can do or are willing to do.

[mandark]

heheh..well I have to recognize when a company does something right..right?

however, i think someone made this point already:

3rd party developers might skip developing for Rev and go straight for 360 and PS3 with their AAA titles unless there is a way to seamlessly adapt those games to the rev controller.

So in the end Rev might get a lot of 1st and 2nd party support but very little 3rd party support. We will see a lot of Mario tennis, soccer, paint and Zelda but no FIFA soccer, Halflife2, NFL, Burnout, Battlefield 2 or Quake 4...

We will have to wait and see what developers can do or are willing to do.
3rd party games will be a concern. The Rev's controller will mean more development time spent if its to be utilized for a multiplatform game. So it looks like the Rev may once again have to settle as a secondary console to either the PS3 or the 360. Only time will tell if this new setup will be heavily supported.

But I don't think Nintendo is going for first place though. I really believe that Nintendo is more geared towards providing a different experience than being number one. Like I've said before, if this controller offers a better experience for Hunters then its reason enough for me to purchase it. Also I'm pretty sure there will be more than enough first party titles out there that will add to the justification of the purchase.

[The Prince of Darkness]

Well surprising no one has posted it yet, but here is a preview break down with pics of the much secretive controller. What do you all think? I think it could work for some game genres but seems like some will be questionable.

http://hardware.gamespot.com/Story-ST-23521-2567-x-x-x&tag=gs_hp_flashtop_read

One thing is for sure. Whether it works well or not you are going to look like a major jackass playing with that thing. Sort of like riding a moped---it is fun until your friends see you.

[mandark]

One thing is for sure. Whether it works well or not you are going to look like a major jackass playing with that thing. Sort of like riding a moped---it is fun until your friends see you.
Thats only a factor if what other people think is more important to you compared to what you think is ok.

[Aylmer]

I have to tell you, after reading about the new controller (dubbed a "wand" by CNN, and that's actually pretty accurate) at Nintendo.com as well as some other sites, it seems to me there is quite a bit of confusion about this device.

But, it is revolutionary. It is not IR like a tv remote, it is RC like the Wavebird. However, unlike the Wavebird, or anything else ever made, for that matter, both the controller AND the console "know" where the controller is in real-world 3D space, the angle/direction/speed of the device, and more. This is really big. Seriously. I am a tech-freak, and I think this thing is incredible.

But only time will tell if it works well or not for gaming. However, given Nintendo's 107 year history, I'd say they probably know what they are doing.

One thing that is really funny about this is the timing. Although Sony and Mickeysoft could indeed build similar controllers, they'd have to go back to square one on their upcoming consoles to build RC based 3D spatial recognition into their respective OS's, with the requisite hardware mods. Nintendo is dumb like a fox.

On the same note, I saw one of the new Gameboy Micros. I have a DS, so why do I want a Micro so damned bad? Because...it's sooooo damned cute! It's smaller than my Sony Ericsson phone, weighs about half of what a GBA-SP does, and most of all, the display is killer! Bright and sharp like a DS! Oh, man, when will it stop.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

I guess you can always duct-tape an ass scratcher to the end of the "remote". Or maybe Nintendo will come up with an ass scratcher peripheral add on just for TMG. :D

I can't believe how narrow minded some of these bots have been. I've given Treb some examples on how you can use this controller for games in existance now. Heck, this controller can even be used for RTS games. Point, click, point, drag, click. How much easier can it get?

Despite your Ass-Scratching quibs you can't belittle the point. This thing maybe good for some type of game that Nintendo comes up with. But this won't be better suited to FPS. Now, you guys are the fools who began exclaiming this would revolutionize FPS, talk about not reading, go re-read some of the nonsense you guys wrote. Mochan, I can't believe you would think this thing is gonna be accurate for aiming, you must be kidding. You are a mouse guy, who can't aim unless you can place your cursor on top of something and click it, and you want to try and aim this. Listen, if you are playing a Mickey Mouse Versus Mario FPS, where the aiming reticule is the size of a quarter and the target, then this might be good for aiming. If you are trying to play Quake or any modern FPS, this ain't gonna work well at all for aiming.

First, this thing looks super-silly. But, that said, like Mandork stated, I don't care cause I won't be buying it. But, I can comment on it, and I think once the curiosity wears off, the revolution will be in most peoples closet, just like the GC was. Of course, Gadfly will be here to tell us all how much fun he is having with F-Zero 3 or something. Will this work? Like I said, for traditional games, not a chance in hell. You won't be able to play a game like Splinter Cell with this. But like i said, Nintendo doesn't have traditional games in mind with this, they are going to design the games to suit this controller. 3rd party developers, sure they will give it a shot. And when they don't recoup their investment, cause Revolution consumers won't buy anything unless its from Nintendo, they will tuck their tale between their legs and head back to 360 or PS3. I predict, this Revolution will do just as well as the GC.

About scratching your azz. They better come out with an azz-scratching peripheral, because you do a lot of it while gaming. Hell, some times I eat a slice of pizza or take a drink, hell some people smoke hydro while gaming, the point is, with both hands 100% utilized, you won't be able to do anything with this, and it will lead to fatigue, constantly holding something in both hands. But, go ahead, and jump all over me for pointing to possible problems with this gizmo. You guys are true to form, blast XBOX and Microsoft for real utility, yet wholeheartedly embrace sans question, ANY thing from Sony and Nintendo. I can't wait till this stuff comes out, to see how many suckers end up unhappy. Of course, just like the GC, when it first releases, you guys will be singing its praises, "Oh Luigi's Mansion is sooooooooo GREAAAT!" Nobody will admit, as they sit home feeling like suckers, that it is horrible. Then after a year or so, people will start the griping, "Nintendo hasn't changed, this Revolution sucks, its just like the GC was, its just like the N64 was." Let me tell you guys, if you want classic Nintendo, go buy a SNES, it will never get better than that for Nintendo and consoles.

[The Prince of Darkness]

Thats only a factor if what other people think is more important to you compared to what you think is ok.

Damn dude I didn't mean to offend you or anything. It's ok that you ride a moped:p

[mandark]

Damn dude I didn't mean to offend you or anything. It's ok that you ride a moped:p
Damn straight. Never belittle my choice of transportation again or else I'll tell your mother. ;)

[ThaMaskedGamer]

I'm not so sure that developers won't be able to port over FPS games, in the very least. The controller's mechanics will act very similarly to the current kb/mouse setups, so mapping out the control schemes I would think be easier on it then a standard gamepad.

So, to your second statement - I think the developers CAN do, but the WILLING part is the big question.


It is not only the controller. First they have to get past the hardware limitations. Nintendo has already said it won't be as powerful as 360 or PS3. Also, it is capped out at 480P. Developers will have to deal with less horsepower, that means they will need to do serious work to port over something like Gears of War. Can it be done, who knows. Will it be done, doubt it, the Nintendo audience has never shown a willingness to buy these kind of games in the numbers that would warrant a purchase. Plus, not enough gamers are going to be gaming exclusively on the Revolution. So of the gamers who have a REV and 360 or a REV and PS3, they will just get the game on that other system. Nintendo wants to Revolutionize gaming, to make it more simple for gamers of all ages and genders, well, they will have a hard time pulling the industry with them. Gaming is not slowing down, aside from the normal end of life cycle slow down, gaming is growing and nobody is crying for simplicity. And gearing a game toward simplicity, doesn't exactly scream to developers, hey pleaaaaase port over Ninja Gaiden 2. Gosh, I can think of sooooo many upcoming games that would suck using this input device. Marvel Nemesis, how you gonna play a fighting game using this?

[mandark]

(again snipping the nonsense
Since your crystal ball is correct and we are pretty sure you personally have used the peripheral to be absolutely positive that this controller will suck then I have no other choice but to agree with what you said.

That is, if I was insane. On the other hand I am completely open minded with this controller. Developers themselves have commented how useful this controller can be. And it will be really funny if MS or Sony comes up with an add on peripheral that will mimic the Rev's controller.

We really have no idea right now how accurate it can be. But if its enough to make Hunters more enjoyable then thats proof enough for me.

Also don't act so surprised why the insults are flying again. You jump into this thread like you are the all mighty expert of all controllers that be. It kind of reaks with arrogance don't you think? If you are so concerned with wiping your nose and scratching your arse then you should play turn based games only where you have plenty of time to do both.

So far most everyone here can see or at least acknowledge how useful this controller can be. Yet, you can't. Could it be the MS stocks clouding your vision?

[trebor]

It is not only the controller. First they have to get past the hardware limitations. Nintendo has already said it won't be as powerful as 360 or PS3. Also, it is capped out at 480P. Developers will have to deal with less horsepower, that means they will need to do serious work to port over something like Gears of War. Can it be done, who knows.

Meh. Think of the PC specs it takes to run Doom 3 and then look at the Xbox version. If developers can port over Doom 3 to the Xbox, they can deal with less horsepower.


Will it be done, doubt it, the Nintendo audience has never shown a willingness to buy these kind of games in the numbers that would warrant a purchase. Plus, not enough gamers are going to be gaming exclusively on the Revolution. So of the gamers who have a REV and 360 or a REV and PS3, they will just get the game on that other system.

Maybe, maybe not.


Nintendo wants to Revolutionize gaming, to make it more simple for gamers of all ages and genders, well, they will have a hard time pulling the industry with them. Gaming is not slowing down, aside from the normal end of life cycle slow down, gaming is growing and nobody is crying for simplicity. And gearing a game toward simplicity, doesn't exactly scream to developers, hey pleaaaaase port over Ninja Gaiden 2.

Yes, but it might scream to developers "hey pleaaaaase come up with something new and original". Guess we'll have to see.

Oh, and if M$ is going to hit that "1 BILLION" consumer mark, they better try appealing to people of all ages and genders, it ain't gonna happen with Halo 3.


Gosh, I can think of sooooo many upcoming games that would suck using this input device. Marvel Nemesis, how you gonna play a fighting game using this?

I'd use a Wavebird for Nemesis, personally. :rolleyes:

[mandark]

Nintendo wants to Revolutionize gaming, to make it more simple for gamers of all ages and genders, well, they will have a hard time pulling the industry with them. Gaming is not slowing down, aside from the normal end of life cycle slow down, gaming is growing and nobody is crying for simplicity. And gearing a game toward simplicity, doesn't exactly scream to developers, hey pleaaaaase port over Ninja Gaiden 2. Gosh, I can think of sooooo many upcoming games that would suck using this input device. Marvel Nemesis, how you gonna play a fighting game using this?

Hmmm. If you think about it as gaming "progress" as you say control is supposed to get simpler and simpler and simpler. If I aim a real gun at a target it is so simple. I pick up a rifle, I take aim, then pull the trigger. That is so simple.

In direct contrast to take aim with a control pad. I pick up the rifle, i fiddle with the thumbstick, pray that the target won't move, pray that auto aim works, fiddle with the ever so inaccurate thumbstick again then shoot a few hundred bullets to hit the target.

I think the Revs controller, besides a mouse, can emulate real life aiming more precisely. Don't you think?

[MoNkEy MaN X]

thought i would just point out that there is the posibility of people getting tired of aiming the thing at the tv screen. that is assuming that it works like a light gun. unless you can hold it close to yourself and it just reacts to the direction you move it and not to the placement it would be in respect to the tv.

at a first glance it is something that just looks funny. i laughed at first and thought it was a joke. in america, looks are a big thing all around and there is no exceptions with consumer products. it is cool that nintendo wants to do something different but alot of people would probably be happy of more of the same with better graphics and sound. as much as that attitude sucks, it may fall true and in this case would bring nintendo down.

sorry about the no caps, both my shift keys don't work on this logitech keyboard.

[Mochan]

Mochan, I can't believe you would think this thing is gonna be accurate for aiming, you must be kidding. You are a mouse guy, who can't aim unless you can place your cursor on top of something and click it, and you want to try and aim this.

What do you mean I can't aim unless I put my thing on top of something? I play with lightguns, man! And I can aim with lightguns just fine. This thing will be similar to that. Lightguns are a blast, and this one will let you do it on an LCD or Plasma! And no matter how I look at it, this thing's going to be a lot better than using an analogue stick for aiming.

I also think the device will work fine for Splinter Cell. The nunchuck controls movement, the wand lets you do all the other stuff. The DPad works like the dpad does and lets you select items, etc.

You guys are true to form, blast XBOX and Microsoft for real utility, yet wholeheartedly embrace sans question, ANY thing from Sony and Nintendo.

Eh? I recall making fun of the Batarang as much as anybody, though I did try to justify how it might be more ergonomic than Dual Shock, and I laughed just as hard as anyone when I heard Immersion sued Sony's pants off. I'm the only one to post the PS3 Grill with Kutaragi's grinning face on it.

I've complained about the ergonomics of the PS2's controller, hate how the slim line overheats, made fun of its low res, and cursed its jaggies to hell.

I lambasted the Game Cube for, well, being the Game Cube and as you see I don't own one. Lack of dev support and only a few good games I'm interested in mean I am not getting this product, period. And I heard the controller's Z button sucks, I'm not defending it in anyway because it does look like it sucks. I'll know if it does soon enough when I borrow my friend's Cube.

I'm borrowing an XBox to play Ninja Gaiden, I like how it is the most powerful of all three consoles but I don't like some things like how few games are unique and different, which I can get on the PC or get something close enough.

I praised the 360 for having more Jap support, I've called its triple core more forward-thinking than Sony's Cell, and have expressed interest in its growing library of games that are piquing my curiousity.

Hey, I appreciate the nice things I see being done by anyone. Sometimes it may be nice but I'll downplay it if I saw it done better somewhere else. And I'll lambast anything anyone does if I find it stupid.


If anything, the one who's true to form is you! I expect you to downplay anything Sony or Nintendo does, and praise whatever MS does. Seems true to form, indeed!


It is not only the controller. First they have to get past the hardware limitations. Nintendo has already said it won't be as powerful as 360 or PS3. Also, it is capped out at 480P.

Hardware power isn't that big an issue. PS2, the weakest of all the current gen systems, is getting PC ports. Devs show they are willing to dumb down a game to get it to work on the weakest console. The reason isn't hardware power, it's marketshare. They're willing to do this with the PS2 because it has the biggest marketshare. Question is will they do so for Nintendo? Right now, I'd say no, and that it's a big risk to do so. If we see better sales figures from Nintendo then maybe. Otherwise, devs won't have the incentive to do so.

This is the real problem: will the Rev be able to gather 3rd party support or not.



Also don't act so surprised why the insults are flying again. You jump into this thread like you are the all mighty expert of all controllers that be. It kind of reaks with arrogance don't you think?

You can't even use a mouse for gaming, I'm not listening to your opinions on aiming you analogue-stick bound freak!!!! HUZZAH!!!!!

[Gadfly2317]

You won't be able to play a game like Splinter Cell with this.

Why not? Are you even comprehending how this works? Are you aware that there is a traditional controller dock for the thing that STILL allows for the 3-d spatial functionality?

About scratching your azz. They better come out with an azz-scratching peripheral, because you do a lot of it while gaming. Hell, some times I eat a slice of pizza or take a drink, hell some people smoke hydro while gaming, the point is, with both hands 100% utilized, you won't be able to do anything with this, Well you should LOVE this control then because you can tell there are games being designed that play with only one hand. . . otherwise the analog stick wouldn't be detachable. You'll NEVER have to stop scratching your ass, TMG.

[Gadfly2317]

. Nintendo wants to Revolutionize gaming, to make it more simple for gamers of all ages and genders, well, they will have a hard time pulling the industry with them. . . .gaming is growing and nobody is crying for simplicity. . . .And gearing a game toward simplicity, doesn't exactly scream to developers, hey pleaaaaase port over Ninja Gaiden 2.

What does "simplicity" mean to you? Does it mean simple, easy, bad? Think of it this way; being able to achieve the same complex or sophisticated moves in a game with a simple intuitive natural interface. "Not Simple" can often mean ackward, too many buttons and sticks and clumsy control. I don't mind any thoughtful criticisms of this thing; I wish you'd just be specific instead of these mindless blanket statements that appear to show you don't even understand how this controller works.

. Gosh, I can think of sooooo many upcoming games that would suck using this input device. Marvel Nemesis, how you gonna play a fighting game using this? Have you still not gotten the hint that there is ALSO a traditional control interface they didn't show? They were showing off the "revolutionary" control aspect, not the standard controller that the wand plugs into. Are you actually going to try and argue that MORE control options are a bad thing somehow?

[Gadfly2317]

Eh? I recall making fun of the Batarang as much as anybody, though I did try to justify how it might be more ergonomic than Dual Shock, and I laughed just as hard as anyone when I heard Immersion sued Sony's pants off. I'm the only one to post the PS3 Grill with Kutaragi's grinning face on it.

I've complained about the ergonomics of the PS2's controller, hate how the slim line overheats, made fun of its low res, and cursed its jaggies to hell.


I don't know who TMG is talking about anyone having a double-standard; of all the things people have been displeased about the Xbox 1.5 with, pretty much everyone is saying nice things about its control. Ps3 and Xbox 1.5 are using traditional control setups, and as far as that goes, Zilla--no MS fan--said the new Xbox controller is the most comfortable controller he's ever held. I also agree it looks great. There's a very important reason some of us are freaks about control perfection---it is every bit as important as sound and visuals, maybe more so, because its not just a passive sensory aspect, its our feedback system to the game. A great controller is important. The Xbox had a great controller and so the xbox 1.5 appears to also. And I haven't seen ANY praise for the Sony whatever you guys are calling it, battarang?

TMG needs to pretend this is NOT Nintendo, pretend this is THE 360 controller, go back and re-read and try to comprehend how this works, and then imagine--if he can--how this could improve his favorite type of games.

[Mochan]

On the simplicity issue, simplicity is definitley not necessarily bad.

Otherwise we'd all be crapping on consoles for being too simple to operate as opposed to a PC where we have to have a PhD in engineering to assemble and get to work.



Oh, and I almost forgot: I've already lambasted Nintendo's freehand controller for its looks and potentially its ergonomics in this very thread.

[silversparrow]

thought i would just point out that there is the posibility of people getting tired of aiming the thing at the tv screen. that is assuming that it works like a light gun. unless you can hold it close to yourself and it just reacts to the direction you move it and not to the placement it would be in respect to the tv.

I'm more concerned about the possibility of fatigue from holding both hands in the air separately from each other for a prolonged period of time. When you hold a gamepad you normally have your arms rested on the side of your torso with both hands providing a sort of equilibrium between each other. However I acknowledge I may be completely wrong as Nintendo always surprises us. I thought the N64 controller was going to be horrible the first time I laid eyes on it, but my opinion completely changed once I used it. This two-piece controller obviously has great potential to change the way 3D games are played. It would have been cool if Nintendo allowed the two parts to attach and become a standard gamepad if the player chose to do so.

[Gadfly2317]

I'm more concerned about the possibility of fatigue from holding both hands in the air separately from each other for a prolonged period of time. When you hold a gamepad you normally have your arms rested on the side of your torso with both hands providing a sort of equilibrium between each other.

I've wondered if that would be an issue for anyone. When I game I usually have a pillow on my lap with the controller or my arms resting there; I don't see why holding this would be any different for a lot of games; I dont think you'll need to hold your arms in the air in order to aim or move the wand around for anything other than maybe something that's detecting forward/backward movements of the controller, and even then, with the described precision and responsiveness, it doesn't seem like your movements will have to be that large.

Still, it's a good question we won't really know the answer to until we get to play it (or at least here from people who have spent serious time playing actual games with it.)

[Cuddly Knife]

Why has no one shown a picture of this?
_______________________

http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/651/651559/understanding-the-revolution-controller-20050916041026412-000.jpg

From IGN-
Q: What does the conventional controller cradle/shell do?

A: This add-on makes it possible to play Revolution games in a more traditional manner. The shell is designed to look and function like accepted "regular" controllers, such as the Wave Bird. After its bottom casing is removed, the Revolution's free-hand-style remote is inserted into a gap in the middle of the controller shell. Gamers can then use the shell as they would a traditional controller, with a notable difference: the pointer remote's sensory functionality remains active. As a result, gamers get the best of both worlds: more buttons and two analog sticks along with motion-sensing operations. In a Revolution version of Madden Football, gamers might be able to use the combo to control players with the shell's analog sticks and execute pinpoint passes with the pointer's improved accuracy.

Nintendo has not yet released official imagery of what the controller shell might look like. However, we've created a mock-up (above) based on what we know of its functionality. The real controller shell is likely to connect to the free-hand-style pointer in a very similar fashion. Please note that we realize our model is not entirely to scale, but this is the best we could do on short notice.
________________________________

I tell you what, the Revolution will be just as capable as the other consoles in almost every way, plus adding a new dimension of gaming to the titles that they create specifically for their system. Ports and multi-plats won't be a problem because of the controller.

And every company that wants to make a game for the Revolution won't have to be designed with the wand and extra attachment. They could design a game using the Wavebird-style controller and incorporate a type of motion deal for certain situations. Props for Nintendo for thinking this through, because for a second, I didn't think the wand and the attachment would've been enough for the whole of Nintendos library of games. This assures it now, though.

[Mochan]

Well, no real point in showing a picture of that since that's just a mock-up. The mechanics of of the controller-insertion were discussed already, although if somebody *cough cough* didn't really read the details of the controller started *****ing that picture would be the easiest way to shut him/her up.

[Gadfly2317]

Well, no real point in showing a picture of that since that's just a mock-up. The mechanics of of the controller-insertion were discussed already, although if somebody *cough cough* didn't really read the details of the controller started *****ing that picture would be the easiest way to shut him/her up.

I've seen people griping "why didn't they just make a regular controller with the sensor functionality built in," but I don't think you could get the same kind of precision as you could with single-hand wand control. There are reasons for the control design choices; with the wand, analog extension AND traditional casing that still allows for 3-d spatial movement sensing and aiming, this controller provides a diversity of function that makes traditional games NO PROBLEM, third party ports NO PROBLEM, b/c NO PROBLEM. . .but most importantly, it opens up desigin possibilities for creative developers that are just simply not possible on the other systems.

How thick in the head do some "gamers" have to be to not be able to see this? How could you be a long-time gamer and not just be itching to try this thing out--even if you still plan on sticking solely to old fashioned games on an old-fashioned 360?

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Why has no one shown a picture of this?
_______________________

http://cubemedia.ign.com/cube/image/article/651/651559/understanding-the-revolution-controller-20050916041026412-000.jpg

From IGN-
Q: What does the conventional controller cradle/shell do?

A: This add-on makes it possible to play Revolution games in a more traditional manner. The shell is designed to look and function like accepted "regular" controllers, such as the Wave Bird. After its bottom casing is removed, the Revolution's free-hand-style remote is inserted into a gap in the middle of the controller shell. Gamers can then use the shell as they would a traditional controller, with a notable difference: the pointer remote's sensory functionality remains active. As a result, gamers get the best of both worlds: more buttons and two analog sticks along with motion-sensing operations. In a Revolution version of Madden Football, gamers might be able to use the combo to control players with the shell's analog sticks and execute pinpoint passes with the pointer's improved accuracy.

Nintendo has not yet released official imagery of what the controller shell might look like. However, we've created a mock-up (above) based on what we know of its functionality. The real controller shell is likely to connect to the free-hand-style pointer in a very similar fashion. Please note that we realize our model is not entirely to scale, but this is the best we could do on short notice.
________________________________

I tell you what, the Revolution will be just as capable as the other consoles in almost every way, plus adding a new dimension of gaming to the titles that they create specifically for their system. Ports and multi-plats won't be a problem because of the controller.

And every company that wants to make a game for the Revolution won't have to be designed with the wand and extra attachment. They could design a game using the Wavebird-style controller and incorporate a type of motion deal for certain situations. Props for Nintendo for thinking this through, because for a second, I didn't think the wand and the attachment would've been enough for the whole of Nintendos library of games. This assures it now, though.

There you go. Thank 4 this pic. It affirms what i've said all along, the analog extender and that remote control, WOULD not suffice as a main control interface. I would wager, this is the way most people are going to interface 90% of the time. Just watch. Gimmicks are cool, but there is a reason controllers have evolved to what we have today. You guys have great imaginations, but you have to have a clue as to how something is going to work in the real world over long durations. This picture let's me know that Nintendo hasn't completely lost all their senses. And yes, Mochan, this does shut me up and at the same time proves my point, there was no way, that remote by itself, was gonna be the input device.

[Renzatic Gear]

I don't think anyone expected it to be the Rev's only controller, it only works for half of one...like a mouse without a keyboard.

But the fact remains that it's gonna be far superior for navigating 3D space than a right analog stick. Plus there's so much more that can be done with it that I could hardly see why anyone would consider it just a gimmick.

[Gadfly2317]

. Gimmicks are cool, but there is a reason controllers have evolved to what we have today.
And there's a reason evolution is a continuing process: that which doesn't evolve/adapt dies--you don't stop evolving like the other guys, who never evolved in the first place but only copied. We're all damned glad to see that someone had the balls to first evolve beyond the joystick, and then to evolve beyond the d-pad, and then to evolve beyond the increasingly stale THIRD reiteration of the dual analog. And its Sony I'm ripping there--a goofy batarang with the same config is not evolution, its gimmick.

It's not MS I'm faulting for not evolving because that's never been their gig, because MS has never truly led anything, evolved or done anything but copy everything from their browser, their GUI, their media player, and their cruddy been-there-done-that attempt to tag-along in the world of console gaming.

[Aylmer]

I read an interview with Iwata concerning the Revolution controller, and once again, he is brilliant is his assessment, IMO. He said that there are millions of current non-gamers that use a standard tv remote control everyday who are genuinely intimidated by standard videogame controllers. Mrs. Aylmer is one of those people, BTW. Iwata said that the simplified controller has the potential to introduce these people to videogaming who never would have tried it before. I think he is on to something with that.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

And there's a reason evolution is a continuing process: that which doesn't evolve/adapt dies--you don't stop evolving like the other guys, who never evolved in the first place but only copied. We're all damned glad to see that someone had the balls to first evolve beyond the joystick, and then to evolve beyond the d-pad, and then to evolve beyond the increasingly stale THIRD reiteration of the dual analog. And its Sony I'm ripping there--a goofy batarang with the same config is not evolution, its gimmick.

It's not MS I'm faulting for not evolving because that's never been their gig, because MS has never truly led anything, evolved or done anything but copy everything from their browser, their GUI, their media player, and their cruddy been-there-done-that attempt to tag-along in the world of console gaming.

You are sooooo blind to the truth. First, Renzatic I think above stated that the 3d spatial sensor is soooooo better than a 2nd thumbstick, sure it is, that is why they have a second thumbstick on the main controller, right? Listen, this thing is a gimmick, its gonna be used to imitate a fishing rod, a bat, its all cute, and it could be great if the game is designed around IT. But otherwise, current games people will be falling back to the main controller housing pictured.

To Gadfly, you know only what you want to know. MS hasn't evolved anything! The XBOX has done more for gaming and to push gaming than anything anything PS2 and GC has done. DC started it, XBOX took the ball and slammed dunked it. But, i'm not going to go over all the things XBOX has done, you know, like I said you just choose to ignore it and that's cool, that is you. Now, maybe I was the only one who didn't know that the remote TV controller did not fit into a normal controller housing. Some how based on all of your collective comments, I don't think I was the only one clueless and i'm sure i'm the only one man enough to admit it. But, given that this thing does fit into a controller housing, I can say it is a GREAT innovation or evolution or addition to controllers, all I was saying before was that there was no way, the remote was going to work as well as todays controllers in traditional games. So, yes, in the overall scheme of inserting into a "real" controller this is an exciting addition, by itself, it would have been something that was going to fail miserably in execution.

[Renzatic Gear]

MS hasn't done anything with the Xbox other than port PC games to it and take game hosting programs like Gamespy or All Seeing Eye, make it propritiary, and charge money for it. There's no denying that it's a slick setup, but it really hasn't done anything new.

And there's gonna be more going for the remote other than playing fishing rod games or using it as a bat. Metroid Prime 3 is already slated to use it for mouselooking, they've already converted Echoes to the new control scheme and most people think it's hands down the best solution to FPS games other than the mouse.

Regardless of whether 3rd parties do something cool with it, it's a guarentee that Nintendo will pull something cool off with it that'll make people stand up and take notice.

[Pandarbock]

You are sooooo blind to the truth. First, Renzatic I think above stated that the 3d spatial sensor is soooooo better than a 2nd thumbstick, sure it is, that is why they have a second thumbstick on the main controller, right? Listen, this thing is a gimmick, its gonna be used to imitate a fishing rod, a bat, its all cute, and it could be great if the game is designed around IT. But otherwise, current games people will be falling back to the main controller housing pictured.

To Gadfly, you know only what you want to know. MS hasn't evolved anything! The XBOX has done more for gaming and to push gaming than anything anything PS2 and GC has done. DC started it, XBOX took the ball and slammed dunked it. But, i'm not going to go over all the things XBOX has done, you know, like I said you just choose to ignore it and that's cool, that is you. Now, maybe I was the only one who didn't know that the remote TV controller did not fit into a normal controller housing. Some how based on all of your collective comments, I don't think I was the only one clueless and i'm sure i'm the only one man enough to admit it. But, given that this thing does fit into a controller housing, I can say it is a GREAT innovation or evolution or addition to controllers, all I was saying before was that there was no way, the remote was going to work as well as todays controllers in traditional games. So, yes, in the overall scheme of inserting into a "real" controller this is an exciting addition, by itself, it would have been something that was going to fail miserably in execution.

Umm yeah that is an IGN mock up and nothing of the classic attachment has been shown. But as far as the old way being better I am guessing if you lived in the days of horse drawn carriages you would have scoffed at the idea of a combustion engine vehicle to carry you around, because heck if the horse way already had wheels what would be the point of replacing the horse with an engine to move you about if the slow inefficient horse could do the same thing.

[Mochan]

To Gadfly, you know only what you want to know. MS hasn't evolved anything! The XBOX has done more for gaming and to push gaming than anything anything PS2 and GC has done.

The only thing the XBox evolved was the harddisk. Or maybe you can also count how they got free online services like Gamespy Arcade and charge money for it. Both of which are PC products. Well they did do something previous consoles didn't, but it wasnt exactly new.

The PS2 may not have done much for console evolution, but the PS1 did a boat.


Now, maybe I was the only one who didn't know that the remote TV controller did not fit into a normal controller housing. Some how based on all of your collective comments, I don't think I was the only one clueless and i'm sure i'm the only one man enough to admit it.

It's in the second article posted by Pandarbock on the 3rd page, well before the image was posted, in bold for your convenience.

First, Renzatic I think above stated that the 3d spatial sensor is soooooo better than a 2nd thumbstick, sure it is, that is why they have a second thumbstick on the main controller, right?

That's there to emulate old stle games and to allow for old-school game types to be made. That said, even in current gen the only real use the 2nd stick usually gets is to aim your view or to control the camera angle. A few games do something more with it (like RAD or Fight Night) but the 2nd stick is usually underutilized and/or unnecessary; I look at my controller and I can see rings around the stem of the left stick from abrasion on the rotating axis edge; the right stick is clear from that and only the controller used for Fight Night and RAD show anywhere near as much abrasion of the steam.

The spatial sensor is a huge improvement for the conventional use (aiming/moving the camera angle) and will open avenues for a lot of other applications.

Failure to see these other avenues and labelling it as nothing more than a gimmick is simply a lack of imagination and resistance to change. And one last potshot: "the reason game controllers have evolved to what they are today?" The driver for that was the Playstation Dual Shock -- which although it ripped off the rumble idea from Nintendo and stole the actual rumble algorithms from Immersion, introduced the second thumbstick you are so in love with. ;)

[trebor]

Wow, some of you f***'tards are unblieveable. Remeber, there's four ports for GC controllers for the revolution. So there are still a possiblilty for standard controller use for unimaginative developers.

Here's an idea... Use a litte imagination. Some of you make me sick. No one, including me, thought the DS would amount to sh!t. But, Nintendo has proved that there is different ways to play games. What's wrong with that? WHo wants three console manufactuers doing the same f***ing thing? Jesus guys, at least give it a chance.


Look at what Square-enix, EA, THQ, and other have to say about the controller design btw.

The Revolution in now my most wanted console. I've been playing games since the oringinal NES, and to be honest, I can't wait for something a little different. God bless Nintendo for trying something new.

I hope you're not directing this towards me, because I don't question the ingenuity of the controller, only the ingenuity of the developers with such a tool at their disposal.

In other words, I don't want to see this innovative new controller only being used to play the same crap we've been playing ad nauseum this generation. That's my main reservation at this point. The hardware can only take you so far, but it's the software that will make it shine.

[Gadfly2317]

I hope you're not directing this towards me, because I don't question the ingenuity of the controller, only the ingenuity of the developers with such a tool at their disposal.

In other words, I don't want to see this innovative new controller only being used to play the same crap we've been playing ad nauseum this generation. That's my main reservation at this point. The hardware can only take you so far, but it's the software that will make it shine.

I'm not that skeptical, though, mainly because the DS was original hardware, and you had all these doubters saying everyone would just shoe-horn existing franchises into the hardware. The skeptics were wrong. They'll be wrong again; this is a business, yes, but it is an artistic and creative industry and developers will be glad to take on things that really give them new creative freedom. More polygons with the same old interface is not more creative freedom.

Still, I would expect existing franchises to continue. . .but if the experience of these franchises is significantly improved by the interface, they will be more than worth revisiting. Though the Rev may not be the graphical powerhouse the Ps3, you ARE getting a significantly more powerful system and much better graphics, AND you get incredibly innovative control. That dipwad who said all the control will be good for is "fishing" is either way more stupid and without vision than I ever imagined, or he's just trying to be irritating.

I'm looking forward to what Nintendo has designed for this controller--they don't create new hardware without some really cool games in mind for it; also, I really would like another Pilot Wings game.

[Aylmer]

I'm playing Star Ocean 2 again on my PS2, since I found a PS1 memory card, and I'm going to actually try to finish it this time. Proof positive that killer graphics do not a good game make.

But the more I've been thinking about that Revolution controller, the more it has me wondering. For instance, since the OS and controller 'knows' where each other is in real world space, then Nintendo would naturally supply that module as part of their SDK to developers.

And then it hit me. With the recognition being automatic, there's no drain on the CPU, since the OS 'expects' it. And developers don't have to worry about the coding, since it's inherent to the OS.

So, with your wireless wand, why couldn't you have a full screen Meteos or Kirby:Canvas Curse? With much higher resolution, of course. In fact, almost anything you can think of doing on the DS could be scaled up and done on your TV, in high resolution, with your wireless "stylus"!!!

Mindblowing, I think.

[Mochan]

One sad thing is that I just picked up Radiata Stories and its gameplay is worse than Star Ocean 2's. Th