YTD sales through July per Slade...damn liar.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Here is what Slade posted:<b>
Well, on the GC, they show up much later then either the PS2 or X-box versions.

Oh and I think this chart should be rather illuminating for TMG and others:

Rank Title Publisher Format Release Date
1 Gran Turismo 4 Sony PS2 Feb '05
2 Pokémon Emerald Nintendo GBA Apr '05
3 MVP Baseball 2005 EA PS2 Feb '05
4 Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith LucasArts PS2 May '05
5 Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas Rockstar PS2 Oct '04
6 God of War Sony PS2 Mar '05
7 The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap Nintendo GBA Jan '05
8 Resident Evil 4 Capcom GC Jan '05
9 Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition Rockstar PS2 Apr '05
10 Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith LucasArts Xb May '05

These are the top ten selling games up to July 28th (YTD info) Despite X-box's strong software numbers every month, it is sort of pathetic that only one X-box game made this list. Looks like the X-box userbase is interested in nothing more then a quick fix before moving on to something else.

More here: http://www.the-magicbox.com/forums/...ead.php?t=14283</b>

When I click on the link provided by Slade, I come up with different numbers, through August NOT JULY as follows:

1. GT4 - PS2 - 1,300,000 approx
2. God of War - PS2 - 600,000 approx
3. Halo2 - XBOX - 400,000 approx
4. Jade Empire - XBOX - 300,000(combined total of normal edition and L.E.)
5. Forza - XBOX - 299,000 approx
6. Mario Sunshine - GC - 296,000 approx
7. Halo 2 Map pack - XBOX - 260,000 approx
8. Star Fox - GC - 247,000 approx
9. Super Smash - GC - 247,000 approx
10. Mario Party - GC - 237,000 approx


Now, I have a question. Slade, did you lie to us? I'm going by your source and I come up with different numbers. And, i'm trying to figure out why you decided to not include August numbers. So YTD PS2 has 2 games in the top 10, GC has 4, and XBOX has 4. Now, maybe I don't know how big exactly the Ps2 user base is, but it is huge and it dwarfs the XBOX and GC installed. But month after month, we see the XBOX with just as many or in the case of August more games in the top 10. Why?


So go suck on that LastWord, rationalize that away. Now, these aren't my numbers sense I don't know anything about sales stats, these are Slades numbers, numbers that he found convenient to crunch to support his position. I swear you guys will stoop to levels an ant can't reach to make your mighty PS2 look so hot. This is why MS and Nintendo don't fear the much vaunted PS2 installed base, this is why developers will and are supporting the 360.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Here is what Slade posted:<b>
Well, on the GC, they show up much later then either the PS2 or X-box versions.

Oh and I think this chart should be rather illuminating for TMG and others:

Rank Title Publisher Format Release Date
1 Gran Turismo 4 Sony PS2 Feb '05
2 Poké*¯n Emerald Nintendo GBA Apr '05
3 MVP Baseball 2005 EA PS2 Feb '05
4 Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith LucasArts PS2 May '05
5 Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas Rockstar PS2 Oct '04
6 God of War Sony PS2 Mar '05
7 The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap Nintendo GBA Jan '05
8 Resident Evil 4 Capcom GC Jan '05
9 Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition Rockstar PS2 Apr '05
10 Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith LucasArts Xb May '05

These are the top ten selling games up to July 28th (YTD info) Despite X-box's strong software numbers every month, it is sort of pathetic that only one X-box game made this list. Looks like the X-box userbase is interested in nothing more then a quick fix before moving on to something else.

More here: http://www.the-magicbox.com/forums/...ead.php?t=14283</b>

When I click on the link provided by Slade, I come up with different numbers, through August NOT JULY as follows:

1. GT4 - PS2 - 1,300,000 approx
2. God of War - PS2 - 600,000 approx
3. Halo2 - XBOX - 400,000 approx
4. Jade Empire - XBOX - 300,000(combined total of normal edition and L.E.)
5. Forza - XBOX - 299,000 approx
6. Mario Sunshine - GC - 296,000 approx
7. Halo 2 Map pack - XBOX - 260,000 approx
8. Star Fox - GC - 247,000 approx
9. Super Smash - GC - 247,000 approx
10. Mario Party - GC - 237,000 approx


Now, I have a question. Slade, did you lie to us? I'm going by your source and I come up with different numbers. And, i'm trying to figure out why you decided to not include August numbers. So YTD PS2 has 2 games in the top 10, GC has 4, and XBOX has 4. Now, maybe I don't know how big exactly the Ps2 user base is, but it is huge and it dwarfs the XBOX and GC installed. But month after month, we see the XBOX with just as many or in the case of August more games in the top 10. Why?


So go suck on that LastWord, rationalize that away. Now, these aren't my numbers sense I don't know anything about sales stats, these are Slades numbers, numbers that he found convenient to crunch to support his position. I swear you guys will stoop to levels an ant can't reach to make your mighty PS2 look so hot. This is why MS and Nintendo don't fear the much vaunted PS2 installed base, this is why developers will and are supporting the 360.

Okay, I read the messages in the thread that Slade provided. The reason why this list is a bit different than Slade's first list is it is obviously absent GBA titles, which I think are irrelevant to console discussion, and this list only includes first party or internally developed/published games. This explains why GC did so well. So there are no 3rd party games on this list. Okay, so I apologize a little bit, maybe Slippery Slade wasn't tryin to pull a fast one on us. Even so, I think this list is just as dramatic and probably more interesting. When you factor in the 3rd party games, it really shows the PS2 is just a multiplatform 'ho. LOL.

[Mochan]

Found some numbers for hardware sales:

http://forum.pcvsconsole.com/viewthread.php?tid=8498&page=2

2004 sales show:
Worldwide Hardware Sales (End of 2004)
PlayStation 2 - 81.39 million
Xbox - 19.9 million
GameCube - 18.03 million
Game Boy Advance - 65.74 million
Nintendo DS - 2.84 million
Sony PSP - 0.51 million
N-Gage - 1.3 million
PSone - 101.73 million

2005 June YTD:

Worldwide Hardware Sales (End of June 2005)
PS2 - 91 million
Xbox - 21.9 million
GameCube - 18.76 million
Game Boy Advance - 67.77 million
Nintendo DS - 6.65 million
PSP - 5.06 million
PSone - 102.49 million


Broken down per region for 2004 (no 2005 data available)
North America
PlayStation 2 - 32.86 million
Xbox - 13.2 million
GameCube - 10.11 million

Japan / Asia
PlayStation 2 - 19.47 million
Xbox - 1.7 million
GameCube - 3.78 million

Europe / PAL
PlayStation 2 - 29.06 million
Xbox - 5.0 million
GameCube - 4.13 million

Market penetration in the US is at 30Million or so only as of 2004, 10million sales since then to June 2005 so we can say about an extra 5 Million in the us (about 50% of console sales is in US, 50% of 10 million = 5M) so let's say we have some 35M in the US as of June 05, and let's say about 16M XBox units. The difference is a little more than twice as much, I don't know how much impact that should have on top ten sales considering more big name games to choose from and split your sales on the PS2.


Now regarding Slade's alleged deceit, I clicked on that link when I first saw it and I saw a big chart with individual games and I saw the July YTD figures in a lower post at the bottom, but no August YTD. Where did you get the August YTD figures? Are we even on the same page?

[Gadfly2317]

So where'd Resident Evil 4 go? And where'd the original point go? What is the point?

Did Star Fox actually sell better than RE4? Seems if the point was to compare software sales you might be better served to compare the top 50 selling games, to see if that "depth and diversity" of the Ps2 library adds up to higher overall sales of games.

[slade]

The link I picked went to the Magicbox. The charts at the top showed first party sales of games from Sony, MS and Nintendo. You don't see Resident Evil 4 in TMG's new list because it is a third party game. I suppose at this point TMG might be realizing his mistake. The chart I linked to had third party games on it.

Ergo, I'm right, he's wrong.

Neener neener neener!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Gadfly2317]

The link I picked went to the Magicbox. The charts at the top showed first party sales of games from Sony, MS and Nintendo. You don't see Resident Evil 4 in TMG's new list because it is a third party game.

Is there a similar chart showing YTD third party sales?

The software totals for first party titles was pretty interesting, especially when you consider the size of the installed bases:

Sony: 4,990,784
Nintendo: 3,190,064
MS: 2,899,348

[slade]

BTW, the chart I linked to was relevant to the discussion we were having about third party games not selling on PS2.

[Gadfly2317]

BTW, the chart I linked to was relevant to the discussion we were having about third party games not selling on PS2.

OK. . .that's what it was; I knew there was something about TMG's new list that made no sense and seemed to have completely wandered away from whatever the original point was.

[slade]

Is there a similar chart showing YTD third party sales?

That's the main contention in this post. Look back at the August NPD thread and you'll see the link I mentioned as well as the chart that spurred all this.

As for your numbers, the charts on the magic box thread I linked to are quite big. There's a lot of games in them. It would be fun if someone went and combined all the totals to see how MS, Sony or Nintendo compare to each other.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

OK. . .that's what it was; I knew there was something about TMG's new list that made no sense and seemed to have completely wandered away from whatever the original point was.

It takes you guys 20 post to recognize what I already corrected in the second post? And yes comparitively the PS2 isn't doing so hot when it comes to first party stuff, when you think about its installed base. The XBOX and GC are more than holding their own. I would like to see the complete list for 3rd party data too however.

[slade]

So there are no 3rd party games on this list. Okay, so I apologize a little bit, maybe Slippery Slade wasn't tryin to pull a fast one on us. Even so, I think this list is just as dramatic and probably more interesting. When you factor in the 3rd party games, it really shows the PS2 is just a multiplatform 'ho. LOL.

Oooooh, nice catch slick. LOL!!!!!!!!!

Maybe next time you should actually think something like this out before blazing ahead full speed.

[slade]

It takes you guys 20 post to recognize what I already corrected in the second post? And yes comparitively the PS2 isn't doing so hot when it comes to first party stuff, when you think about its installed base. The XBOX and GC are more than holding their own. I would like to see the complete list for 3rd party data too however.

Nah, correcting yourself would have been equivalent to deleting this post before I got a look at it. Now, I'm never going to let you live this down. Much like that Burnout 2 fiasco you pulled. I'll be milking this for years to come.

[The Prince of Darkness]

Here is what I find interesting on Mochan's hardware list:

From 01/05 to 06/05

PSP-4.55million
DS-3.81million

Damn, that tells me two things for sure. First that handhelds are hot. Second that there are probably many people out there that have bought both. I thought that we "hardcore gamers" were the only ones doing that, but those numbers are just staggering to me.

[trebor]

Here is what I find interesting on Mochan's hardware list:

From 01/05 to 06/05

PSP-4.55million
DS-3.81million

Damn, that tells me two things for sure. First that handhelds are hot. Second that there are probably many people out there that have bought both. I thought that we "hardcore gamers" were the only ones doing that, but those numbers are just staggering to me.

That tells me two things too. First, that people will buy Sony products regardless of price and quality, simply because they think it's more "mature" or looks cooler. Second, that the PS3 is going to be just fine with a higher price tag - if people are willing spend $250+ for a handheld, they will pay $500+ for a console.

[The Prince of Darkness]

That tells me two things too. First, that people will buy Sony products regardless of price and quality, simply because they think it's more "mature" or looks cooler. Second, that the PS3 is going to be just fine with a higher price tag - if people are willing spend $250+ for a handheld, they will pay $500+ for a console.

Oh I definately agree with #1. In fact, I thought that too after I posted. I am not sure about #2, though. I am still a firm believer in the magic pricepoint of $300. I fully understand that a lot more people out there can now afford to piss away $500 on a video game console, but the big question is will they. I can afford to piss away $500 on a console, but eff that and I don't care whether it is MS, Sony, or Nintendo producing it. I suspect that others may draw that line in the sand too.

[trebor]

I am still a firm believer in the magic pricepoint of $300. I fully understand that a lot more people out there can now afford to piss away $500 on a video game console, but the big question is will they. I can afford to piss away $500 on a console, but eff that and I don't care whether it is MS, Sony, or Nintendo producing it. I suspect that others may draw that line in the sand too.

I would have agreed with you before I found out that over 4 million people in the first 6 months of the year paid $250+ for a handheld system - which traditionally have never been over $100.

In fact, I'm relatively surprised that Nintendo had the stones to release a handheld at $150, all things considered.

People will buy the PS3 in mobs, it won't matter the price.

[Mochan]

Wait... I'm confused. =_=

Are we clicking on links and ending up on different pages? PoD listed:

PSP-4.55million
DS-3.81million

But I checked and checked and checked again and I swear the numbers I linked to and posted were:

Nintendo DS - 6.65 million
PSP - 5.06 million

I'm confused. =_=

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Nah, correcting yourself would have been equivalent to deleting this post before I got a look at it. Now, I'm never going to let you live this down. Much like that Burnout 2 fiasco you pulled. I'll be milking this for years to come.

You overstate your importance. As far as living this down. You are the guy who said Onimusha is better than Ninja Gaiden, you said Red Faction was better than Halo, you said VF4 would look better than DOA. And you wanna talk about getting some sales stats wrong?

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Oooooh, nice catch slick. LOL!!!!!!!!!

Maybe next time you should actually think something like this out before blazing ahead full speed.

Actually this is more interesting, it really shows what we all know. The PS2 is just a 3rd party and mainstream machine, when it comes to great exclusive games, it really is quite paltry relative to its installed base.

[trebor]

Wait... I'm confused. =_=

Are we clicking on links and ending up on different pages? PoD listed:

PSP-4.55million
DS-3.81million

But I checked and checked and checked again and I swear the numbers I linked to and posted were:

Nintendo DS - 6.65 million
PSP - 5.06 million

I'm confused. =_=

Err...I think the first numbers are sales from 1/05 - 6/05, while the second set of numbers is total worldwide sales up until 6/05.

[The Prince of Darkness]

Wait... I'm confused. =_=

Are we clicking on links and ending up on different pages? PoD listed:

PSP-4.55million
DS-3.81million

But I checked and checked and checked again and I swear the numbers I linked to and posted were:

Nintendo DS - 6.65 million
PSP - 5.06 million

I'm confused. =_=

Sorry. I just assumed that, since the PS2 was at 91 million in the second set of numbers, they were cumulative figures. So...I just subtracted the first set from the second set to get the number sold in '05 up to the end of June.

[The Prince of Darkness]

Err...I think the first numbers are sales from 1/05 - 6/05, while the second set of numbers is total worldwide sales up until 6/05.

Actually I think that the first list is total installed base as of the end of 2004, and the second is total installed base as of the end of June 2005.

[slade]

You overstate your importance. As far as living this down. You are the guy who said Onimusha is better than Ninja Gaiden, you said Red Faction was better than Halo, you said VF4 would look better than DOA. And you wanna talk about getting some sales stats wrong?

Tsk tsk tsk, lying to save face. I wonder how far you'll actually sink before this is all said and done. It'll be nice to see that's for sure.

Actually this is more interesting, it really shows what we all know. The PS2 is just a 3rd party and mainstream machine, when it comes to great exclusive games, it really is quite paltry relative to its installed base.

LOL, sure sure. Whatever helps you sleep at night, big guy.

[Mochan]

Sorry. I just assumed that, since the PS2 was at 91 million in the second set of numbers, they were cumulative figures. So...I just subtracted the first set from the second set to get the number sold in '05 up to the end of June.

Ah, I understand now. That makes sense, too.

[The Prince of Darkness]

I would have agreed with you before I found out that over 4 million people in the first 6 months of the year paid $250+ for a handheld system - which traditionally have never been over $100.

In fact, I'm relatively surprised that Nintendo had the stones to release a handheld at $150, all things considered.

People will buy the PS3 in mobs, it won't matter the price.

True, true. You will probably end up being right. I guess that I just don't look at things the same way as the majority do. For instance, whether I am looking to buy a new stereo, a handheld, or a new microwave oven it all just comes down to the technological aspects and whether I perceive them to match the price. The PSP falls in the category of handheld gaming machine which are traditionally $100 or less, but the thing is that the PSP also gives you the same media functions as an IPod or a dvd player. Combine those features with the huge screen and the graphics that were never possible on a handheld before, and I don't think that $250 is out of the ballpark. In the case of the DS it was the two screens and the fact that, since gaming with a stylus is something totally new and original, I can justify the $150. If the PS3 comes in at $500 though, I just don't see enough "seperation in features" between the current gen and the next gen to justify a purchase. I mean what more will the PS3 give you that the the PS2 did not...$200 for better graphics, more solid framerate, and better effects? I think not.

[Mochan]

Combine those features with the huge screen and the graphics that were never possible on a handheld before, and I don't think that $250 is out of the ballpark.

Frankly, I think the PSP is worth more than $250.

Anyway, look at the PS3 -- if it becomes a super computer like it says it will, then it may well enter into the Desktop PC pricepoint, which is around $600. If it sells at around $400 to $500 people may still think it is a good deal for what it can do. Or maybe not, I don't know. But I might consider it a good buy if it can deliver enough features to replace my PC. That's a lot of features I'm going to need, though... like posting on these boards for starters.

Another feature I think is already covered is that it supports mouse and keyboard. This means it will be a viable alternative for me to play FPS games, and we may soon see PC style strategy games appearing on it as well. Is the 360 going to follow suit? I haven't heard any news of the 360 conclusively providing mouse and keyboard support.

[trebor]

If the PS3 comes in at $500 though, I just don't see enough "seperation in features" between the current gen and the next gen to justify a purchase. I mean what more will the PS3 give you that the the PS2 did not...$200 for better graphics, more solid framerate, and better effects? I think not.

Blu-ray drive. True HD movie experience AND a state-of-the-art gaming experience. Full b/c with 10 years of games. Wireless controllers. Wireless internet.

I think all of that is enough seperation of features to warrant the uber price tag.

[Mochan]

I hope I can install bit torrent and codecs on it, and use it as an MP3 jukebox. Then it will truly become a PC replacement.

[The Prince of Darkness]

Blu-ray drive. True HD movie experience AND a state-of-the-art gaming experience. Full b/c with 10 years of games. Wireless controllers. Wireless internet.

I think all of that is enough seperation of features to warrant the uber price tag.

For me that is nowhere near enough seperation of features. I mean the Blu-ray and the HD experience are features that are aimed right at higher-end technophiles rather than the common man. Most people could probably care less. The b/c is something that Sony themselves have already done before. The wireless controllers are great, but again, are something that Nintendo has done before so people expect it. The wireless internet is another feature that probably, more or less, falls into the category of people could care less. That leaves us with two things---that promised state of the art gaming experience and the Sony brand name which I certainly don't think is enough, but the flock sure may.

[trebor]

For me that is nowhere near enough seperation of features. I mean the Blu-ray and the HD experience are features that are aimed right at higher-end technophiles rather than the common man.

I'm not so sure of that.

1st Gen DVD players were incredibly expensive and all they did was play DVDs and CDs. Were talking about something that will play Blu-ray HD movies, standard DVD movies, as well as CDs. Plus, you add the Playstation brand on it, we have something that the common man will lap up like dogs.

Again, I have to point you to the PSP - which is also something that would seemingly only appeal to technophiles, but look whats happening there. It's the new "it" item to have.

[The Prince of Darkness]

I'm not so sure of that.

1st Gen DVD players were incredibly expensive and all they did was play DVDs and CDs. Were talking about something that will play Blu-ray HD movies, standard DVD movies, as well as CDs. Plus, you add the Playstation brand on it, we have something that the common man will lap up like dogs.

Again, I have to point you to the PSP - which is also something that would seemingly only appeal to technophiles, but look whats happening there. It's the new "it" item to have.

Two things. If the common man laps up that PS3 like a dog because of Blu-ray then I will bow down and praise your incredible insight of the marketplace. You know as well as I do that Blu-ray will not be the reason, however. It will all about the brandname and the old usual Sony promise top take gamers where they have never been before.

Secondly, the PSP was conveniently priced in the range of a typical 20 gig IPod. That range is totally mainstream, so people say that they can buy the "it" item to have that has the same features as an IPod and plays games and movies. That is way different than something costing $500 and just expanding upon they way we play games and watch movies.

[theWacoKid]

This forum is a joke. A bunch of guys, who insist that no way will sony release the ps3 at $399 or $499 because, sony's not crazy, they'll get killed at that price point. NOW realize that yes, sony has sold about 5-6 million psps around the world, are going, oh, yeah, ps3 at $500, it'll sell like gangbusters. Ack, ack, ack. The back of the school bus crowd strikes again.

[trebor]

Ack, ack, ack.

Taking a bunch of different people's unrelated comments and then mish-mashing them into some blanket "bunch of guys" statement - quote a single person who stated what you're claiming.

No wonder you're continually getting schooled in every debate - you suck at it.


Two things. If the common man laps up that PS3 like a dog because of Blu-ray then I will bow down and praise your incredible insight of the marketplace. You know as well as I do that Blu-ray will not be the reason, however. It will all about the brandname and the old usual Sony promise top take gamers where they have never been before.

Secondly, the PSP was conveniently priced in the range of a typical 20 gig IPod. That range is totally mainstream, so people say that they can buy the "it" item to have that has the same features as an IPod and plays games and movies. That is way different than something costing $500 and just expanding upon they way we play games and watch movies.

I don't think it will be just the Blu-ray, but the whole "all-in-one, state-of-the-art, super-dude" image that Sony is adept at projecting. Very much like the PSP is a "all-in-one, state-of-the-art, super-dude" gadget, that is selling for more then any handheld ever has before.

That's why I think the PS3 will still sell for more then any console has sold before - it's Sony, it's Playstation, and it can do everything, including wash your car, do the dishes, and fold your laundry. The common man buys into that crap - hence the popularity of the PSP.

Although, Blu-ray could cost them the entire industry, if it's competitor HD-DVD becomes the standard.

[Fivespot]

Although, Blu-ray could cost them the entire industry, if it's competitor HD-DVD becomes the standard.

Reminds me of the Beta vs. VHS war of the early 19th century - wait that was only 20-25 years ago.

Although Beta offered a superior product with better picture and stereo sound (while mono was the standard), they still got schooled by VHS. The reason they lost that war in my opinion; porn. Porn became popular on videotape in the 80's and was primarily only made for VHS players due to it being cheaper to do so. And we all know how big of an industry pornography is now-a-days - it boomed early on and immediately put Beta at a disadvantage. It was all down hill from there (no pun intended).

I really took notice when that porn UMD issue arose a few months back as it was eerily similar to what happened with Beta vs. VHS back in the day.

If Sony wants Blu-ray to be the standard - they will need mass adopters and obviously putting Blu-rays in PS3's will more than help them accomplish that task. But if they get stubborn and not allow certain types of movies, contents, or whatever from being on Blu-ray - then history is bound to repeat itself (as it usually does).

I'm not sure which is more interesting to me at this point; PS3 vs. 360 vs. Revolution OR Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD. To the average consumer, the Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD might be the bigger battle.

[Mochan]

This forum is a joke. A bunch of guys, who insist that no way will sony release the ps3 at $399 or $499 because, sony's not crazy, they'll get killed at that price point. NOW realize that yes, sony has sold about 5-6 million psps around the world, are going, oh, yeah, ps3 at $500, it'll sell like gangbusters. Ack, ack, ack. The back of the school bus crowd strikes again.

I dub thee King Straw Man Overlord.

[trebor]

Reminds me of the Beta vs. VHS war of the early 19th century - wait that was only 20-25 years ago.

Although Beta offered a superior product with better picture and stereo sound (while mono was the standard), they still got schooled by VHS. The reason they lost that war in my opinion; porn. Porn became popular on videotape in the 80's and was primarily only made for VHS players due to it being cheaper to do so. And we all know how big of an industry pornography is now-a-days - it boomed early on and immediately put Beta at a disadvantage. It was all down hill from there (no pun intended).

I really took notice when that porn UMD issue arose a few months back as it was eerily similar to what happened with Beta vs. VHS back in the day.

If Sony wants Blu-ray to be the standard - they will need mass adopters and obviously putting Blu-rays in PS3's will more than help them accomplish that task. But if they get stubborn and not allow certain types of movies, contents, or whatever from being on Blu-ray - then history is bound to repeat itself (as it usually does).

I'm not sure which is more interesting to me at this point; PS3 vs. 360 vs. Revolution OR Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD. To the average consumer, the Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD might be the bigger battle.

Well, there is at least one thing that Sony has in their advantage in the Blu-ray -vs- HD-DVD war that they didn't have during the Beta -vs- VHS wars...

Sony Picture Studios.

They have a massive library of movies that they own the rights to, which assures that certain big movie franchises will only appear on Blu-ray. If I could only get my Spidey 3 movie on Blu-ray, that would sure as hell be some incentive for me to get a Blu-ray player.

Plus, I'm not so sure if Porn will play as big a role in the current format war - especially when you factor in that the Internet is the biggest porn medium these days.

[Mochan]

I think you're right on the porn thing. I think a lot more people are just downloading porn rather than buying DVDs these days. Porn had to exist on VHS back in the day, but no longer. Anyone with a fast internet connection has all the access to all the porn he needs.

[folken001]

Blah, I don't think PS3 will cost as much as 500 dollars. It's just not logical for them to make a console price so much higher than the norm. Xbots or PS3 doubters said the ame thing back then when psp was released. Sony would die if PSP wasn't going to be priced at 400 dollars, they said. And bs as such. There are some variables in the equation that are yet to be determined for anyone to even guess how much PS3 would be. Most important of all is when exactly will PS3 launch? Another is how much sacrifice is Sony willing to make. Without knowing these, how can anyone on this board or anywhere else to come up with a valid or even reasonable prediction? Are you guys Gods? Are you guys from the Future or something? Oh PS3 is going to use Blue Ray Disc, cost too much TODAY, hence PS3 is going to die. Is it me or arguments like this is getting too old?

[slade]

Anybody heard about the Japanese 360 SKU yet? Apparently, they're getting the Premium Package for around 350 dollars. There's no dual SKU BS either. It's just the one package. That's what they should have done here. The boneheaded missteps by this company continue.

[trebor]

There are some variables in the equation that are yet to be determined for anyone to even guess how much PS3 would be. Most important of all is when exactly will PS3 launch? Another is how much sacrifice is Sony willing to make. Without knowing these, how can anyone on this board or anywhere else to come up with a valid or even reasonable prediction? Are you guys Gods? Are you guys from the Future or something? Oh PS3 is going to use Blue Ray Disc, cost too much TODAY, hence PS3 is going to die. Is it me or arguments like this is getting too old?

It's just educated guesses at this point, and nobody has claimed otherwise, so I don't see why it matters to you.

But to one of your questions, how much sacrifice is Sony willing to make, my guess would be quite a LOT - especially concerning Blu-ray. It's no assumption that new technology costs a lot for R&D and to manufacture, so it makes perfect sense that Blu-ray will cost quite a bit.

If Blu-ray is successful, Sony stands to make billions upon billions in profit from it, because it is a proprietary format, and therefore can be licensed out for $$$. I think Sony will be more then willing to sell PS3's at a significant loss if it assures the dominance of the Blu-ray format, which it very likely will.

[mandark]

It's just educated guesses at this point, and nobody has claimed otherwise, so I don't see why it matters to you.

But to one of your questions, how much sacrifice is Sony willing to make, my guess would be quite a LOT - especially concerning Blu-ray. It's no assumption that new technology costs a lot for R&D and to manufacture, so it makes perfect sense that Blu-ray will cost quite a bit.

If Blu-ray is successful, Sony stands to make billions upon billions in profit from it, because it is a proprietary format, and therefore can be licensed out for $$$. I think Sony will be more then willing to sell PS3's at a significant loss if it assures the dominance of the Blu-ray format, which it very likely will.

At this point in time I just don't see Blu-Ray failing against the competition. Sony is going to take advantage of the name recognition which is probably why Sony did not change the PlayStation name and just added a number to it. When someone mentions PlayStation everybody pretty much knows what you mean. Its very possible that the PS3 might once again saturate the console market regardless of price.

On top of that 3 major entertainment companies have already signed up to support Blu-ray: Twentieth Century Fox, Lions Gate Entertainment, and Universal Music Group. Thats 2 major movie destributors and the worlds leading music company. How can Blu Ray possibly fail unless Sony really screws everybody up?

Sony's console is just geared more towards scalability compared to the competition: Higher Capacity media, PC usage possibilities, and Porn. :D Maybe it should be renamed as the PornStation.

[mandark]

This forum is a joke. A bunch of guys, who insist that no way will sony release the ps3 at $399 or $499 because, sony's not crazy, they'll get killed at that price point. NOW realize that yes, sony has sold about 5-6 million psps around the world, are going, oh, yeah, ps3 at $500, it'll sell like gangbusters. Ack, ack, ack. The back of the school bus crowd strikes again.
Which version of Waco is typing this? Waco 1.0, 2.0, or X. We needs to know.

[Mochan]

Anybody heard about the Japanese 360 SKU yet? Apparently, they're getting the Premium Package for around 350 dollars. There's no dual SKU BS either. It's just the one package. That's what they should have done here. The boneheaded missteps by this company continue.

Ouch, sucks to be an American right now. Did MS feel the fire from the idiocy of their US plans and decided to change and fix for Japan, or are they just being extra careful with Japan?

[mandark]

Another feature I think is already covered is that it supports mouse and keyboard. This means it will be a viable alternative for me to play FPS games, and we may soon see PC style strategy games appearing on it as well. Is the 360 going to follow suit? I haven't heard any news of the 360 conclusively providing mouse and keyboard support.
Has this been confirmed regarding KB/Mouse. If that is true then you're right. The PS3 may very well be a good PC replacement. Even at $600 that will still be a few hundred dollars less compared to a gaming PC built to the same specification. Compared to an Alienware or Falcon were talking at least a thousand dollars.

[mandark]

Ouch, sucks to be an American right now. Did MS feel the fire from the idiocy of their US plans and decided to change and fix for Japan, or are they just being extra careful with Japan?
Kinda translates into "Screw the US gamers and lets be good to the Japanese.", to me. If I'm an Xbox supporter I will be royally pissed. But then again, as stated by someone here before, Xbox early adopters have boat loads of money to even care anyway. So maybe MS's plan is just right.

[Mochan]

It's been confirmed for the PS3 that it will support keyboard and mouse, we even have pics of the keyboard. It looks dumb, it has two analogue sticks. =_= The main concern now is whether the games will support the alternate control setup.

I for one am looking forward to playing i8 and Killzone with kb/mouse.

The Xbox fiasco is, well... truly a fiasco. Screw your American market! Oh yeah!

[mandark]

It's been confirmed for the PS3 that it will support keyboard and mouse, we even have pics of the keyboard. It looks dumb, it has two analogue sticks. =_= The main concern now is whether the games will support the alternate control setup.

I for one am looking forward to playing i8 and Killzone with kb/mouse.

The Xbox fiasco is, well... truly a fiasco. Screw your American market! Oh yeah!

Post the Pics! Post the Pics! Pleaaaaaase!

It truly is amazing how MS is handling the American Market. This country has the highest Xbox user base and they decided to screw it up. Maybe they want to show the Japanese that their priority is focused on the Japanese market to get solid support. Kinda ironic since the biggest complaint in the Bot camp is how much they hate Japanese games. Now, MS is screwing them to get Japanese support. LOFL!

[Mochan]

Post the Pics! Post the Pics! Pleaaaaaase!

It truly is amazing how MS is handling the American Market. This country has the highest Xbox user base and they decided to screw it up. Maybe they want to show the Japanese that their priority is focused on the Japanese market to get solid support. Kinda ironic since the biggest complaint in the Bot camp is how much they hate Japanese games. Now, MS is screwing them to get Japanese support. LOFL!

Let's see if this picture works:

http://www.havamedia.net/CGR/1/M/HAVABlog/1/430_772.jpg

Not sure if that's the real keyboard design; I seem to recall seeing a keyboard looking like that on Logitech's list of peripherals.

Anyway that's what it feels like to me, too: MS is showing Japan that "we are treating you right!" But it's stupid to do that and send the message to your already installed fanbase "We are treating you wrong!" Remember Ultima 6 where you had to choose between Gargoyles and Humans? The answer was neither, the answer was "you must choose both!"