August NPD!!!!!!!!!!!

[slade]

August Hardware Sales

PSP = 167,000
PS2 = 253,000
Xbox = 134,000
GCN = 53,000
GBA = 180,000 (approx)
DS = up 26% over July

August Top 25 Software Sales

US Top 25 Videogame Titles
Rank Title Publisher

1 PS2 MADDEN NFL 06 Electronic Arts
2 XBX MADDEN NFL 06 Electronic Arts
3 PS2 NCAA FOOTBALL 06 Electronic Arts
4 GCN MADDEN NFL 06 Electronic Arts
5 XBX DELTA FORCE: BLACK HAWK DOW Ubi Soft
6 GBA POKEMON EMERALD Nintendo
7 XBX NCAA FOOTBALL 06 Electronic Arts
8 XBX T. CLANCYS RECON 2: STRIK E Ubi Soft
9 XBX DARKW ATCH Capcom
10 NDS N INTENDOGS: DACHSHUND & FRI Nintendo
11 PS2 DELTA FORCE: BLACK HAWK DOW Ubi Soft
12 NDS NINTENDOGS: LABRADOR & FRIE Nintendo
13 PSP MIDNIGHT CLUB 3: DUB EDITIO Take Two Interactive
14 PS2 LEGO STAR W ARS LucasArts
15 PS2 DESTROY ALL HUMANS! THQ
16 NDS N INTENDOGS: CHIHUAHUA & FRI Nintendo
17 GBA DRAGONBALL GT: TRANSFORM Atari
18 PS2 DARKW ATCH Capcom
19 PS2 M IDNIGHT CLUB 3: DUB Take Two Interactive
20 PS2 FLATOUT Vivendi
21 PS2 FANTASTIC 4 Activision
22 NDS ADVANCE W ARS : DUAL STRIKE Nintendo
23 PS2 GOD OF WAR Sony
24 PS2 CHARLIE CHOCOLATE FACTORY Take Two Interactive
25 PS2 MEDAL OF HONOR: EUROPEAN AS Electronic Arts
Note: Ranked in terms of $$$ sales.

Have no clue what's up with the DS number so don't ask. Presumably, PSP is still beating it in terms of sales. Nintendo shouldn't care though seeing as there still seems to be a lot of life left in the GBA.

In terms of software, X-box continues to do well. People are really gobbling up games for this system. Makes me wonder if some are just going to dig in their heels and pass over the 360 launch.

[Superjoint Ritual]

Wow, the DS is really gonna have a fight on its hands this holiday season. It will be interesting to see if all superb amount of games comming out for it will be able to keep up with GTA and Madden.

[theWacoKid]

Well, I stated before that the psp would do better in NA than in japan. But, this system is going to start stiffing unless they bring out games and madden ain't going to do it. They blew it with the delay. Stupid move. GTA?! I don't know, people are going to get tired of paying console prices for inferior versions of console games. I know I did. And the original stuff isn't cutting it. Tripe like Gripshift and Frantix. WTF? The one game i really wanted from sony was Pursuit Force for the holidays and guess what, its not on their release schedule. You suck, sony.

And as the next gen systems arrive, the initially impressive ps1.5 graphics will look increasingly dated. The DS will at least have a stable of unique games to rely on, not a slew of inferior versions of console games at console prices.

[Gadfly2317]

I wonder how high up the chart Nintendogs would have made it if it weren't ranked as three different games because it had different versions. Probably right under the Madden games.

[Gadfly2317]

July #'s:
DS 112,000
GBA SP 288,000


If the DS is up 26% over last month, that puts it at 141,120.

With SP sales still going so strong, I think we're seeing PsP not just tapping into Nintendo's market, but actually expanding the handheld market. SP is still doing huge numbers which should bode well for the DS. Those SP fans will have every reason to move up to a DS with its backwards compatibility and eventual sequels to popular GBA games.

I'm enjoying the new stuff, but there's little question games like Advance Wars and Golden Sun (if they do a sequel) and the Mario Luigi RPG add to the appeal of the new hardware.

[thelastword]

And as the next gen systems arrive, the initially impressive ps1.5 graphics will look increasingly dated.Are you serious, did handhelds ever compete with consoles in terms of graphics, did the gba compete with ps1, did the gameboy color compete with the ps2, HeLL! is the DS competing now with the PS2, Gc and Xbox. The PSP is the first handheld to deliver such oomph! in terms of graphics and the DS simply can't compete there. At least it's 1.5 against the DS's 0.5

I know that the DS has more games for it right now, but is'nt it out longer than the PSP?. The thing just launched in the UK on the 1st of September. Have you seen what's on the cards in the system's future? The games are coming and I'm not talking about niche games only I'm talking about games that will sell, games that has market appeal to push even more PSP's. I did'nt buy a Psp, handhelds were never my thing, but to me it's the most appealing of all handhelds I've seen before, not just because of the games but all the miscellaneous features that it provides.

At the end of the day though, I may never purchase a handheld, not even the psp because I'm primarily a Console and Pc (http:///#) gamer. I have too many games to play between my Xbox/PS2 and Pc (#). Maybe when the PSP hit's $99.00 I'll buy it then and some of it's killer software (http:///#) but for now a fourth system is just too much for me, even if it's mobile.

[theWacoKid]

The other big factor is with psp software that sells, like MC3, which sold around 75k, how many of those people are happy with their purchase. 70 second load times between races is going to piss off a lot of gamers.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

This trend is going to have to be reversed with the PS3, or Sony is going to go under. I'm assumming the trend will stop with the PS3. You can't have the XBOX with 5 titles in the top 10 and PS2 with 2. Sure, PS2 did a good job of rounding out 10-20, but this is a problem. And I just can't understand this phenomenom. How is it that people continue to buy the hardware, but don't buy the software. How can Sony continue for another year or two with this hardware? You people profess you can stick with current gen stuff for another 2 years, but the broader Sony fanbase is saying otherwise, by not buying games. And Sony is being doubly hurt because the games they are selling are not exclusives, they are only selling multiplatform stuff, and XBOX is cutting right into that.

You people may not see a problem with this, but it is a problem for Sony. Obviously, the PS2 can get away with this it has already made a boat load of cash and the hardware is probably generating a profit alone. But the problem is changing the mindset and this habit of Sony gamers. The PS3 is going to start under such a debt load, with PS2 users being stingy with their cash, Sony must find a way to convince its base to loosen the purse strings for PS3. But, I think that will be a huge challenge, considering at the same time they will have to buy a new console that will be expensive, $60 games possibly, and peripherals to get going. So, you guys seem to know everything that is wrong with the XBOX and 360. Can somebody tell me what is happening with Sony? Is the hardware just too old and people don't want to admit it? Is the PSP or DS or both cutting into PS2 software sales. Are PS2 users more representative of the mainstream, families, girls, casual gamers who may only buy 1 game a month or less, while the XBOX has the hardcore gamers?

I know after being away from gaming over the summer, in August and Sept so far i've bought the following games, R6-4, MGP3, Darkwatch and JE. Are the PS2 guys here buying games?

[theWacoKid]

This trend is going to have to be reversed with the PS3, or Sony is going to go under. I'm assumming the trend will stop with the PS3. You can't have the XBOX with 5 titles in the top 10 and PS2 with 2. Sure, PS2 did a good job of rounding out 10-20, but this is a problem. And I just can't understand this phenomenom. How is it that people continue to buy the hardware, but don't buy the software. How can Sony continue for another year or two with this hardware? You people profess you can stick with current gen stuff for another 2 years, but the broader Sony fanbase is saying otherwise, by not buying games. And Sony is being doubly hurt because the games they are selling are not exclusives, they are only selling multiplatform stuff, and XBOX is cutting right into that.

You people may not see a problem with this, but it is a problem for Sony. Obviously, the PS2 can get away with this it has already made a boat load of cash and the hardware is probably generating a profit alone. But the problem is changing the mindset and this habit of Sony gamers. The PS3 is going to start under such a debt load, with PS2 users being stingy with their cash, Sony must find a way to convince its base to loosen the purse strings for PS3. But, I think that will be a huge challenge, considering at the same time they will have to buy a new console that will be expensive, $60 games possibly, and peripherals to get going. So, you guys seem to know everything that is wrong with the XBOX and 360. Can somebody tell me what is happening with Sony? Is the hardware just too old and people don't want to admit it? Is the PSP or DS or both cutting into PS2 software sales. Are PS2 users more representative of the mainstream, families, girls, casual gamers who may only buy 1 game a month or less, while the XBOX has the hardcore gamers?

I know after being away from gaming over the summer, in August and Sept so far i've bought the following games, R6-4, MGP3, Darkwatch and JE. Are the PS2 guys here buying games?

A lot of the ps2 userbase is attracted to the greatest hits lineup. For instance, my local EB had plenty of used copies for Jak3, R&C3, Killzone, etc. No takers at $39.99 used. Once they went GH, these used copies fell to $19.99 can and they vanished in a couple of days. A lot of this userbase are renters. A lot of this userbase only plays a few games. Madden, GT4, GTA. Beyond that, they're not really interested. Part of what's happened is this. Sony gets a lot of games first due to their sales base, the games are programmed around the ps2's limitations so xbox versions of games like madden and GTA look a little better, but not much. In the public's mind, the ps2 must be the better system because it gets games like GTA first and the xbox version is only a smidge better. A lot of it is just perception.

And I agree, sony is going to have problems shifting its userbase over to the ps3 which will come out no lower than $399. Some interesting stats for you, from majornelson. MS has done some marketing studies, and they found out that xbox owners who have live subscriptions buy on average 50% more titles than those who don't. The xbox fanbase is far more likely to accept a $399 xbox 360, than the ps2 userbase would accept a $399 ps3. Sony will have to draw xbox fans away, and since they're not launching first, how are they going to do that? Well, more hype about flops, power, big name franchises, etc. Lots of testimonials from EA, Epic, Nvidia, etc. Crank out those CGI vids and tell people they're real-time, get caught in the lie, make up some BS story and carry on. Tokyo Game Show is this week. All I see on tap for the ps3 is a pair of trailers for the ps3, MGS4 and Ni-oh. If that's all they're going to show, why bother showing up. They're launching in the spring, and they still have next to nothing to show. What's wrong with this picture?

The facts are these, there's only so many hardcore gamers out there, and its not how large your userbase is, its how active. In japan, the psp is getting drubbed by the DS in hardware sales, but its getting absolutely destroyed on the software front. I haven't seen a psp title sell over 100k in months while for the DS, there have been several. Having 80 million units out there doesn't mean 80 million are being used. A lot of those units sit idle, or perhaps even stuck in a closet collecting dust. A lot are busted, and the owners didn't feel like getting them repaired or buying a new one.

If you've got 4 times the userbase, then you should be selling four times the amount on a multi-platform game, but that's almost never the case. Sony's large userbase is vastly over-rated. Getaway 2 stiffed hard, Rise of the Kasai stiffed hard, only big selling game sony has had as a first party title recently has been GT4 and that's sold far less than GT3 despite a much larger userbase.

Nobody has actually bothered to quantify the quality of a userbase. Guys like you and me who buy a crapload of games and are early adopters probably spend 10 times the amount on games over a system's lifetime than the gamer buying a system into its third year. Its a lot more important for sony and ms to get us onboard at the start of a system.

And right now, sony will have to earn my money. No more marketing BS, because I"m not buying it. Sony has had 5 long years to prove that their computing paradigm of the emotion engine with its cpu assisted by vector units yields superior results and they've failed. They've failed miserably. There isn't one single game on the ps2 that couldn't be done easily on another system. And the cell is nothing more than the emotion engine, take 2. Tack on five more vector units, call them spe units, because vector has left a bad taste in people's mouths and start the same marketing BS as before about flops and power. Well, they'll have to prove it this time. They're going to be late with the hardware, even later with the software, the ps3 is going to cost more and the games won't look or perfrom any better unless they cook in development for a long while. Sorry, but MGS4 isn't coming out till 2007, so showing me a trailer in 2005 does't count for squat.

[thelastword]

It's amazing what some gamers will think, the xbox has an install base of 20 million, Only one franchise sold worth it's salt, Halo CE and Halo 2. What other exclusive have lit the charts like this series? NONE. What other game came close to Halo in terms of sales ? NONE! the disparity between Halo and other best selling Xbox exclusives is in the millions. Let's take a look at the best xbox exclusives; Ninja Gaiden sold just over 500k, Jade empire did'nt do that well, Forza? did that even hit a mil, Name me the exclusive xbox games other than Halo that represent at least 25% of the xbox userbase.

It's quite foolish to think that every AAA game will sell even close to the consle's userbase, but it's quite clear that the ps2 has much! much! more high selling games in varying genres. Games like Gta don't really appeal to the Japanese, they won't buy Halo but they'll buy truckloads of DQ. So what you've got to realize is that sales are representative of the gamers taste in different gaming regions. When You're talking about xbox's installbase, it's more or less the US+UK, one game appealed to them plenty and nothing else came close.

The Difference: KH sold truckloads in Japan, the UK and the Us, so did GT4, FFX, DMC1, Onimusha warlords just to name a few. When so many good games are available in various genres, some people will choose what they prefer. I may like God of War, another gamer may like DMC 3 he'll buy DMC 3 over God of War because he has a choice between so many. A gamer may prefer Onimusha or Genji or ZOE2 or Rygar or MGS or Bujingai or Mark of Kri.. So you see that's what happens in every genre with PS2 so not all great games will sell like GTA, Gran Turismo etc.. just too many choices really.

[Pandarbock]

It's amazing what some gamers will think, the xbox has an install base of 20 million, Only one franchise sold worth it's salt, Halo CE and Halo 2. What other exclusive have lit the charts like this series? NONE. What other game came close to Halo in terms of sales ? NONE! the disparity between Halo and other best selling Xbox exclusives is in the millions. Let's take a look at the best xbox exclusives; Ninja Gaiden sold just over 500k, Jade empire did'nt do that well, Forza? did that even hit a mil, Name me the exclusive xbox games other than Halo that represent at least 25% of the xbox userbase.

It's quite foolish to think that every AAA game will sell even close to the consle's userbase, but it's quite clear that the ps2 has much! much! more high selling games in varying genres. Games like Gta don't really appeal to the Japanese, they won't buy Halo but they'll buy truckloads of DQ. So what you've got to realize is that sales are representative of the gamers taste in different gaming regions. When You're talking about xbox's installbase, it's more or less the US+UK, one game appealed to them plenty and nothing else came close.

The Difference: KH sold truckloads in Japan, the UK and the Us, so did GT4, FFX, DMC1, Onimusha warlords just to name a few. When so many good games are available in various genres, some people will choose what they prefer. I may like God of War, another gamer may like DMC 3 he'll buy DMC 3 over God of War because he has a choice between so many. A gamer may prefer Onimusha or Genji or ZOE2 or Rygar or MGS or Bujingai or Mark of Kri.. So you see that's what happens in every genre with PS2 so not all great games will sell like GTA, Gran Turismo etc.. just too many choices really.

So how many of sony's wonderous crap exclusive launch titles (including launch window) for the ps2 sold even close to the numbers of say Halo for xbox or super smash brothers melee for the gamecube? Really the point is, despite filling every genre at launch under the sun, if the ps3's launch is just full of lackluster craptacular genre fillers and me too ports as both the ps2 and psp have done, I think it isn't so crazy a majority of players might not buy into the ps3 and might look elsewhere especially if the price is wrong, blue ray sure as hell isn't going to sell the system to the masses like the affordable dvd player/ game machine gimmick did.

[slade]

Should you talk, seeing that you've spent the vast majority of your time stockpiling multiplats for the GC. Remember, nothing says 'me too' more then a multiplat title for the GC.

[theWacoKid]

So how many of sony's wonderous crap exclusive launch titles (including launch window) for the ps2 sold even close to the numbers of say Halo for xbox or super smash brothers melee for the gamecube? Really the point is, despite filling every genre at launch under the sun, if the ps3's launch is just full of lackluster craptacular genre fillers and me too ports as both the ps2 and psp have done, I think it isn't so crazy a majority of players might not buy into the ps3 and might look elsewhere especially if the price is wrong, blue ray sure as hell isn't going to sell the system to the masses like the affordable dvd player/ game machine gimmick did.

B.I.N.G.O! B.I.N.G.O! B.I.N.G.O! And bingo was his name-o! :p

[slade]

You both avoided the main point tlw made. In the end, neither X-box or GC were able to replicate that initial success with any other game and that's why they're at the bottom of the heap and will continue to remain so.

[thelastword]

So how many of sony's wonderous crap exclusive launch titles (including launch window) for the ps2 sold even close to the numbers of say Halo for xbox or super smash brothers melee for the gamecube? Really the point is, despite filling every genre at launch under the sun, if the ps3's launch is just full of lackluster craptacular genre fillers and me too ports as both the ps2 and psp have done, I think it isn't so crazy a majority of players might not buy into the ps3 and might look elsewhere especially if the price is wrong, blue ray sure as hell isn't going to sell the system to the masses like the affordable dvd player/ game machine gimmick did. I won't even go further than this, You want to talk launch/launch window fine. I'll have you know that Halo CE's success did'nt come over night it was a consistent seller for a while, since it was the xbox's most appealing game at launch/launch window Hell! it's still the most appealing game/franchise to the xbox userbase even now, saddddd!!!!!!

Let's put Halo on the back burner for now, did pgr sell more than RR? No! did Doa3 sell more than tekken Tag? No! did amped sell more than SSX ? No! It's all launch/launch window right? I could go on and on.

The point is the ps2 has much more triple A's than the Xbox and it actually crushes the Gc (did'nt know you were a gc man primarily). You've got to realize what happened with Halo will not happen again next round . One super hit franchise cannot be a console's saving grace. You need tons more in varying genres to even give Sony a good run and let's be honest here the xbox and Gc were crushed in sales this time. Hell! I've heard so many xbots talk about NG. All it sold was 500k, tell me would'nt it do much better on the ps2. People want to talk about sales of xbox games are you kidding me sheesh.

[Mochan]

Are the PS2 guys here buying games?

Nope, I'm a pirate through and through, I've only bought one PS2 game in my entire life and it was very, very difficult getting my hands on it. It's easier to find a needle in a haystack than to find a PS2 game in a third world country! But then.... it's even harder to find XBox or Gamecube games. =_=

That said the XBox currently lacks in gaming diversity, and this lack of diversity hurts.

And there is no doubt in my mind that if NG were on the PS2, it would have sold in droves.

[Gadfly2317]

Should you talk, seeing that you've spent the vast majority of your time stockpiling multiplats for the GC. Remember, nothing says 'me too' more then a multiplat title for the GC.

I don't get the logic on this one. How is a multiplat more "me too" on one system than another?

[ThaMaskedGamer]

It's amazing what some gamers will think, the xbox has an install base of 20 million, Only one franchise sold worth it's salt, Halo CE and Halo 2. What other exclusive have lit the charts like this series? NONE. What other game came close to Halo in terms of sales ? NONE! the disparity between Halo and other best selling Xbox exclusives is in the millions. Let's take a look at the best xbox exclusives; Ninja Gaiden sold just over 500k, Jade empire did'nt do that well, Forza? did that even hit a mil, Name me the exclusive xbox games other than Halo that represent at least 25% of the xbox userbase.

It's quite foolish to think that every AAA game will sell even close to the consle's userbase, but it's quite clear that the ps2 has much! much! more high selling games in varying genres. Games like Gta don't really appeal to the Japanese, they won't buy Halo but they'll buy truckloads of DQ. So what you've got to realize is that sales are representative of the gamers taste in different gaming regions. When You're talking about xbox's installbase, it's more or less the US+UK, one game appealed to them plenty and nothing else came close.

The Difference: KH sold truckloads in Japan, the UK and the Us, so did GT4, FFX, DMC1, Onimusha warlords just to name a few. When so many good games are available in various genres, some people will choose what they prefer. I may like God of War, another gamer may like DMC 3 he'll buy DMC 3 over God of War because he has a choice between so many. A gamer may prefer Onimusha or Genji or ZOE2 or Rygar or MGS or Bujingai or Mark of Kri.. So you see that's what happens in every genre with PS2 so not all great games will sell like GTA, Gran Turismo etc.. just too many choices really.

Try and stay focused. My question concerned monthly top 20 sales performance of the PS2. Go back and re-read it and respond to that. This isn't about Halo. Halo wasn't on this chart, and hasn't been in a while. XBOX has 20 million users worldwide, but only about 15 million in the US, the PS2 has about 50 million US users, these are US charts, not Japanese charts. So the question is how is PS2 not owning the top 5, top 10? How is XBOX having 5 games in the top 10, and 3 in the top 5, month after month? What PS2 games have you recently purchased?

[slade]

I don't get the logic on this one. How is a multiplat more "me too" on one system than another?

Well, on the GC, they show up much later then either the PS2 or X-box versions.

Oh and I think this chart should be rather illuminating for TMG and others:

Rank Title Publisher Format Release Date
1 Gran Turismo 4 Sony PS2 Feb '05
2 Pokémon Emerald Nintendo GBA Apr '05
3 MVP Baseball 2005 EA PS2 Feb '05
4 Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith LucasArts PS2 May '05
5 Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas Rockstar PS2 Oct '04
6 God of War Sony PS2 Mar '05
7 The Legend of Zelda: The Minish Cap Nintendo GBA Jan '05
8 Resident Evil 4 Capcom GC Jan '05
9 Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition Rockstar PS2 Apr '05
10 Star Wars: Episode III - Revenge of the Sith LucasArts Xb May '05

These are the top ten selling games up to July 28th (YTD info) Despite X-box's strong software numbers every month, it is sort of pathetic that only one X-box game made this list. Looks like the X-box userbase is interested in nothing more then a quick fix before moving on to something else.

More here: http://www.the-magicbox.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14283

[Gadfly2317]

Well, on the GC, they show up much later then either the PS2 or X-box versions.
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Ah, but with improved graphics and "connectivity." ;)

Speaking of handheld "connectivity," will that be cool now since Sony is going to "Me-too" that feature?

[slade]

Connectivity? You still hypin' that? Sony can go ahead and copy it. They have my blessings, as long as it is as retardedly used as the GC feature and doesn't lead to me buying a handheld.

Improved graphics is also a bit of a stretch. It seems like a hit and miss case sometimes because of GC's limited capacity discs.

[Mochan]

I think what's telling in that chart slade posted is that the PS2 beat the Xbox out in the multiplat title. The greater number of PS2s in circulation clearly shows the advantage even if the Xbox version is technically superior.

[Gadfly2317]

Connectivity? You still hypin' that? Sony can go ahead and copy it. They have my blessings, as long as it is as retardedly used as the GC feature and doesn't lead to me buying a handheld.


Not "hypin," just teasing about Sony's copycat ways (copy-cat ways that got a US federal judge to rule their "dual-shock" was a patent infringement.). That's what that big-assed winking-emoticon was added for, just to make sure you didn't take the connectivity point seriously.

I wish there was a way to make the emoticons bigger.

[slade]

Well, mission accomplished. :rolleyes:

[thelastword]

Try and stay focused. My question concerned monthly top 20 sales performance of the PS2. Go back and re-read it and respond to that. This isn't about Halo. Halo wasn't on this chart, and hasn't been in a while. XBOX has 20 million users worldwide, but only about 15 million in the US, the PS2 has about 50 million US users, these are US charts, not Japanese charts. So the question is how is PS2 not owning the top 5, top 10? How is XBOX having 5 games in the top 10, and 3 in the top 5, month after month? What PS2 games have you recently purchased?
I did'nt change the topic, you just could'nt grasp my explanation, but lets forget about that for now, What do you mean by xbox owning the sales charts? Are you serious? How many times have Xbox owned the top ten? because you seem to believe that it's a trend. Usually multiplats are at the top of the list and the ps2 versions always sell more. When was the last time the xbox had an exclusive that broke the top ten consistently for weeks? When? How long did Gt4 stay in the top ten? at least four. What about Gta Sa in it's exclusivity period? God of War was a recent game in the top ten, so was tekken 5, and yes, all these games sold well.

Please link me to 50 million units sold in America, please do, I'm not so sure about that one. Xbox games don't sell consistently, It's all aone time affair. For e.g your motogp3 if it sells 30k last week and makes the bottom 50 do'nt expect to see it in the top 100 next week, This is the simplest way I could explain it to you.

[slade]

Fifty million US users?

LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You really shouldn't talk sales TMG. It's obvious you argue from a position of ignorance to start with. And month after month it's the same old deal.

[thelastword]

Where does TMG get his numbers? I figure it was his rectum, but I'm not sure, perhaps someone can explain.

I've heard his argument before though, it's been brought up a million times before, it never made sense before and never will in the future.

TMG my buddy! If you believe that the PS3 will struggle with game sales, you are seriously delusional.

[mandark]

Where does TMG get his numbers? I figure it was his rectum, but I'm not sure, perhaps someone can explain.

I believe you have to be an MS stock holder to understand TMG's point of view. Its like betting on the NFL. You know a team you bet on sucks but you'll probably defend them to the person you bet against.

[thelastword]

I believe you have to be an MS stock holder to understand TMG's point of view. Its like betting on the NFL. You know a team you bet on sucks but you'll probably defend them to the person you bet against. So true, but for the life of me I've never seen a man so caught up in a world of fables. I figure when you get good returns on your investment like he does, with Ms stalk no less, that you sink into a pit of make believe, bringing fourth phantom numbers like 50 million. Somehow I believe that Tmg came up with the 1 billion xbox 360 customers at one of his stockholders meetings. NO! I am convinced that he was the one responsible for convincing them of this grand future for the 360.:cool:

[Pandarbock]

Should you talk, seeing that you've spent the vast majority of your time stockpiling multiplats for the GC. Remember, nothing says 'me too' more then a multiplat title for the GC.

Well gee I own 13 ps2 games but don't (any longer) own a ps2, and I own a psp with one game, but that doesn't change the fact that both systems launch sucked ass quality wise. So really I must be a dilluted GC fanboy spouting off because I just wasn't there for either systems launch.

[slade]

:shrug: ok. It's nice to be honest with yourself.

[Pandarbock]

:shrug: ok. It's nice to be honest with yourself.
Right...

[Cuddly Knife]

Why in the hell are games like Lego SW, Charlie and the Choco, and Fantastic Four still up there in the top twenty, or up there period? Did anyone here buy any of those games? You can say if you did, and I won't laugh. That hard. But seriously, I think the PS2 is more kiddy-friendly than the Cube sometimes, minus the GTAs and other three-initialed games.

[Pandarbock]

Why in the hell are games like Lego SW, Charlie and the Choco, and Fantastic Four still up there in the top twenty, or up there period? Did anyone here buy any of those games? You can say if you did, and I won't laugh. That hard. But seriously, I think the PS2 is more kiddy-friendly than the Cube sometimes, minus the GTAs and other three-initialed games.
I played the lego SW demo it was silly and sort of neat, but I am not sure i would buy it, but there is alot of SW fans out there that buy anything with SW in the name so never underestimate that. :D

[ThaMaskedGamer]

So the PS2 installed base in the US isn't 50 million? I thought it was, I thought it was like 70 million worldwide with 50 million of that here in the states. I read these figures a while ago and I could have them wrong, I don't think they are grossly wrong.

Anyway, Slades numbers show the top 10 games YTD through July. Is it any wonder that most of these games are Holiday titles from last year . Is it any wonder that most of these games are the same games we typically see from PS2 doing well. GTA GT4 etc etc. I'm not saying the XBOX sells more software than the PS2. I'm saying this month the XBOX had 5 or 6 titles in the top 10, the PS2 had 2. Last month it was sort of similar and ditto for the month prior to that. Aside from games like Madden or GTA, no one is buying anything new on the PS2. And with such a large installed base, that platform should dominate the top 10. I find this odd. Maybe you don't. Maybe you expect the PS2 with such a large installed base, to not dominate the top 10. Well, i'm sure Sony doesn't expect this and if the trend continues on the PS3, it is not going to be an ideal situation for Sony. That is all i'm saying. But as usual, you guys see no evil hear no evil or smell no evil when it comes to any problem Sony might be having. Just stick your heads in the sand and pretend the machine has great games and every one is playing them.

[Mochan]

And with such a large installed base, that platform should dominate the top 10. I find this odd. Maybe you don't. Maybe you expect the PS2 with such a large installed base, to not dominate the top 10.

Well, if you look at Slade's July YTD figures, it IS dominating the Top Ten. Well my expectations for "dominating" seem to be less stringent that yours I guess. I think you are expecting "dominating" to mean every single title in the top 10. Well that does mean dominating but if it has six of the ten titles (and all the top spots except the 2nd) I'd say that means 'dominating,' too.

Maybe you are also expecting it to dominate the top ten every month, but that might be too small an increment of time in a field where the big sellers are not released on a monthly basis. Still, if you take a look at it the PS2's multiplats are beating the XBox's multiplats (PS2 Madden outsells XBox Madden, and PS2 NCAA outsells XBox NCAA -- well Darkwatch isn't doing too well but at least that's not in the Top Ten). Well sure, it's not as dominating as one might like but then there are more games to buy and spread the userbase amongst on the PS2 than on the other systems. And hey, maybe the PS2 owners just don't buy games as rabidly as the other systems, maybe they're just not as dedicated to gaming. That would be bad for Sony but actually I think the real culprit is piracy.

Just stick your heads in the sand and pretend the machine has great games and every one is playing them.

It's not pretend that the machine has great games; it really does have great games. I don't know about everyone playing them, but it does have great games.


So the PS2 installed base in the US isn't 50 million? I thought it was, I thought it was like 70 million worldwide with 50 million of that here in the states.

That can't be right, 70 million worldwide and 50 million in the US? The PS2 is big in Japan and other countries too, so having only 20 million to split between Japan and the rest of the world can't be right. Also, 50 million in the US? Isn't that like, 1/5th the population of the US? (What's the US pop these days? 250million?) That's incredible penetration if so.

Does anyone have the correct numbers?

[slade]

Aside from games like Madden or GTA, no one is buying anything new on the PS2.

Funny, considering that the only X-box game that made the list could be construed as one of your 'holiday' titles.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

<b>Well, if you look at Slade's July YTD figures, it IS dominating the Top Ten. Well my expectations for "dominating" seem to be less stringent that yours I guess. I think you are expecting "dominating" to mean every single title in the top 10. Well that does mean dominating but if it has six of the ten titles (and all the top spots except the 2nd) I'd say that means 'dominating,' too.

Maybe you are also expecting it to dominate the top ten every month, but that might be too small an increment of time in a field where the big sellers are not released on a monthly basis. Still, if you take a look at it the PS2's multiplats are beating the XBox's multiplats (PS2 Madden outsells XBox Madden, and PS2 NCAA outsells XBox NCAA -- well Darkwatch isn't doing too well but at least that's not in the Top Ten). Well sure, it's not as dominating as one might like but then there are more games to buy and spread the userbase amongst on the PS2 than on the other systems. And hey, maybe the PS2 owners just don't buy games as rabidly as the other systems, maybe they're just not as dedicated to gaming. That would be bad for Sony but actually I think the real culprit is piracy.</b> Yeah i'm looking for it to dominate every month. I already said three times now that the system obviously sells more software. So of course any YTD figures will and should dominate. Given a 35 million installed base. My only point, is I don't care how you slice, PS2 isn't selling enough software and if it continues this with PS3, Sony will not be in the black. I'm saying it is a trend they need to reverse. Now, if they don't have this kind of commanding lead in terms of installed base on PS3, of course not. But then I'm sure they will consider it a failure if they don't get the same market share.

<b>
It's not pretend that the machine has great games; it really does have great games. I don't know about everyone playing them, but it does have great games. </b> I'm not going to say the PS2 doesn't have ANY great games. I think it has less great games and less games of a high technical quality than XBOX. But, I understand others may think differently. But when you look at the 3rd party and 1st party sales, I think it is clear the XBOX titles are better than PS2. The best selling PS2 game is GT4, Forza is FAR superior. Then you have games like GOW, GTA3, Rachet&Clank, Midnight Club Dub, etc etc. well aside from God of War and Rachet and Clank, most of the other games like Gran Tourismo and Midnight Club all appear on XBOX, in better form. Meanwhile you have on XBOX, Jade Empire, Conker, Halo2, Ninja Gaiden, Conker, Doom3 etc. Anyway, forget anything i've just said, cause I realize this is a circular argument. It really just comes down to what system's franchises you like. And i'm not at all impressed with PS2 franchises.

[Mochan]

Well I don't have an XBox so I can't really count how many great games there are on the Box. As such, I can't really compare the numbers between the two platforms. All I know is most of the games I'd like on the Box, I already got to play on the PC, mwahahahahahaa!

Right now I intend to borrow my friend's XBox just to play Ninja Gaiden.

I'm not sure what you are saying regarding XBox version games being superior. I can't relate since I don't play Forza. but the XBox has no equivalents to great games like Final Fantasy X, Suikoden 3, Breath of Fire V, Disgaea, Super Robot Wars Impact/Alpha 2/MX/Alpha 3, etc,

Well okay I'll forget what you said since it is circular, and I was about to go back to my PC pimping the moment you mentioned Doom 3. :P

[ThaMaskedGamer]

What is your basis for this to begin with? The NPD top ten for the past few months? We've already established that it doesn't mean squat in the long term. And furthermore, this isn't the holiday season so games near the top won't perform as well as they would have otherwise. Maybe if the X-box could have a significant presence during those months, it would have more then one game in the YTD list. So again, your conclusions remain spotty and it seems more and more apparent that you have nothing but your own biases spurring on your arguments.

You must be joking right? If the XBOX had significant holiday presence? Umm I guess you don't know about a little game called Halo2. Also KOTOR2 and GR2 were released during the holidays. I just think that points out that PS2 users are stuck playing scraps like GTA3 and GT4 from last year. What are the big name games since January on PS2 that aren't on another console? I think the only one I can recall is GOW. So, you choose your poison, great game throughout the year, or just big holiday sequel rehashes?

[slade]

My only point, is I don't care how you slice, PS2 isn't selling enough software and if it continues this with PS3, Sony will not be in the black.

What is your basis for this to begin with? The NPD top ten for the past few months? We've already established that it doesn't mean squat in the long term. And furthermore, this isn't the holiday season so games near the top won't perform as well as they would have otherwise. Maybe if the X-box could have a significant presence during those months, it would have more then one game in the YTD list. So again, your conclusions remain spotty and it seems more and more apparent that you have nothing but your own biases spurring on your arguments.

[slade]

You must be joking right? If the XBOX had significant holiday presence? Umm I guess you don't know about a little game called Halo2. Also KOTOR2 and GR2 were released during the holidays. I just think that points out that PS2 users are stuck playing scraps like GTA3 and GT4 from last year. What are the big name games since January on PS2 that aren't on another console? I think the only one I can recall is GOW. So, you choose your poison, great game throughout the year, or just big holiday sequel rehashes?

LOL, GT4 is from last year? Man, clueless doesn't begin to describe you. Oh and there's God of War, Devil May Cry 3, Tekken 5 and a host of others. If you can put sales disasters like KOTOR2 and GR3, then I suppose games that have sold a lot more then those are fair game for me.

Oh btw, significant holiday presence as in January. Before that wouldn't count as that is last year.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

What is your basis for this to begin with? The NPD top ten for the past few months? We've already established that it doesn't mean squat in the long term. And furthermore, this isn't the holiday season so games near the top won't perform as well as they would have otherwise. Maybe if the X-box could have a significant presence during those months, it would have more then one game in the YTD list. So again, your conclusions remain spotty and it seems more and more apparent that you have nothing but your own biases spurring on your arguments.

Oh my only point is what I said. If the PS3 performs like this, Sony won't be in the black. XBOX 360 will, if it continues this trend and stops losing $$ on the hardware. But the situation is gonna be reversed, Sony is going to have an expensive piece of hardware and lost a boat load per unit. It is said the blue-ray unit alone is costing $100 per unit. Sony can't recoup those costs with this kinda performance from its user base. Now, that is all i'm saying. Selling numbers like this, is great for PS2, the hardware cost diddly squat. But for PS3, its gonna hurt Sony's bottomline. Agree or disagree?

[slade]

Oh my only point is what I said. If the PS3 performs like this, Sony won't be in the black. XBOX 360 will, if it continues this trend and stops losing $$ on the hardware. But the situation is gonna be reversed, Sony is going to have an expensive piece of hardware and lost a boat load per unit. It is said the blue-ray unit alone is costing $100 per unit. Sony can't recoup those costs with this kinda performance from its user base. Now, that is all i'm saying. Selling numbers like this, is great for PS2, the hardware cost diddly squat. But for PS3, its gonna hurt Sony's bottomline. Agree or disagree?

Disagree. Hardware costs go down over time. That they didn't for MS only shows that they took the wrong approach in designing the hardware. Getting into a dispute with Nvidia didn't help either. Back when PS2 launched, it wasn't exactly cheap either. A lot of R&D went into the Emotion Engine and Sony lost tons on the hardware. It was only after the first year/year and a half that they started making back the money they had lost from the software sales. It'll be the same this time around and again I don't agree with your conclusions that Sony isn't selling much software. Go check the last NPD data thread I made to see that Sony has sold software comparative to their hardware numbers, ie, four time the number of consoles sold equals four times the number of software sold.