Waco Died For Our Sins

[Gadfly2317]

Apologies in advance Waco; I'm not calling you out here, it's just that you and several people have been discussing how your posts lately don't seem up to snuff in the logic department as compared to just a few months ago.

Below are just a few of Waco's Xbox over the past months. Doesn't the clarity and honest insight of these statements account for why his posts seem so befuddled and illogical lately? Since little has changed information-wise since over the last six months, what do you think really accounts for the flip-flop? You can see in his posts that deep down he still believes his earliers statements--which actually make sense, which is why he's fighting so hard to convince himself that the 360 is not a waste of time and money as he's stated over and over:

I'm sorry, but tonight I didn't see the Zen of gaming. I saw a company with some quite good games (and one or two exceptional ones), but mostly games that had a number after them, and mostly games that are either appearing on other platforms or have been tarted up.
http://forums.videogamereview.com/showthread.php?t=4811

I had a chance to look at the game clips fairly closely, and basically, what I saw were xbox titles running in high res for the most part. PGR3, first thing I went before viewing the clip, was, am I going to race around in empty environments yet again. Based on the brief vid clip, yippers. I love that first line from the article.

They'll be having a lot more people going, why can't I play this or that on the 360. The xbox is also newer, so people will be asking, why don't you want to sell it anymore, I'm not ready for 360 yet, I'd like to buy an xbox this xmas and upgrade later. Sony will allow that, MS won't.

It all plays to consumer confidence. Which company do you have more faith in. The one that's still selling the old console and insuring b/c or the one not selling the old console and with some limited b/c plan.

MS is in this buinsess, because the thought of millions of pc like devices connected in a vast network NOT running some form of windoze terrifies them. They have no real intention in maintaining development studios, their recent actions in the last twelve months or so should tell you all you need to know. They employ a guns for hire approach, I think you'll find that the purchase of Rare hasn't sat well with them, so don't expect much in the way of acquisitions with MS. They've cut development staff, axed games in development and very good games btw and sold off studios. They'll contract out the majority of the work for their first party games.

MS is now looking to push stuff that's not gaming related, attemptiing linkage between your media center pc and your xbox, like this was some great feature. This was their whole CES spiel in a nutshell. Media center!! Is this what people want from the xbox, media center or games? What you think? MS is an easy company to hate for any number of reasons. When I hear a company talking standardization, what they're saying is that they want to force mediocrity down a consumer's throats. If and when you see any innovation, we'll let you know, and you'll take what you get and be happy with it. Yeah, I hate that kind of attitude with a passion and I don't think I should reward such a mentality with my hard earned dollars.
http://forums.videogamereview.com/showthread.php?t=4684

I sure hope they're not serious. If they are, dumb move. At least initially.

"Xbox Next and Xbox Next HD would largely be functionally identical, but the latter of the pair features a hard drive and offers increased functionality as a result - which could be anything from Xbox backward compatibility (which the basic model could not offer due to the lack of a hard drive) to media jukebox functions or TIVO-style video recording."

And you guys have been laughing at sony?

"Indeed, Microsoft has already told developers not to rely on the presence of a hard drive for their games, but has curiously failed to rule out the possibility that a drive could be present. Theories for this range from an internal debate at Microsoft about the cost to benefit ratio of the hard drive, through to the remote possibility of the hard drive being sold as an optional extra - on balance, the idea of two versions of Xbox 2, with and without hard drive, seems eminently more reasonable."

Not standardizing on the hard drive is well, sony like, wouldn't you say. Scary thing with this, it makes me wonder just how much these systems are going to cost. $300, $400, maybe even $500. I get a feeling I better just play and appreciate what's on my plate now, because these next gen systems are going to take a while to be reasonably priced and a while before great software shows up.


M$ has done very little aside but attempt to dominate and eliminate any and all competition in the various market segments they target. There are very real reasons why the feds have sought to break up M$. They've been accused of withholding windows source code from competitors such as Wordperfect and Lotus in order to gain a competitive advantage and in essence wipe those companies out.

. . . There are very real reasons why sony is no. 1 and it has nothing to do with these desparate and pathetic assertions. They're no. 1 in the console business because they represent the overall highest perceived value from consumers, end of story. Laugh all you want, but [/b]the reasons xbots come up with can only described as sour grape ramblings

a borg like mentality where M$ runs the show and vendors have to crawl to M$ for anything and everything. YUCK!!! It that's the future of gaming, having to accept M$'s vision of standardized mediocrity, I'll just take up another hobby or switch entirely over to handheld gaming. At least that sector will be safe a few more years from the dominating grasp of M$.
http://forums.videogamereview.com/showthread.php?t=3641

THIS ONE IS VERY ON THE MONEY, BACK WHEN LOGIC WAS PART OF THE ACT:
M$ is of course, greedy, they want the whole enchilida. We'll launch first, that'll solve our problems and completely ignore the reasons for the success they've enjoyed to this point. I'm being serious here, an xbox 2 with no hardware advantage and quite possibly, tech-wise the low man on the totem pole, I mean, why bother. For what, M$'s sterling first party lineup. Most of what passes for M$ first party is nothing more than M$ contracting out titles on a guns for hire approach. Oh, that and every three or four years a title from Bungie and the Rare guys will take an old n64 project and update it for Xbox 2 .

M$ simply doesn't have strong enough of a first party to come out first and have people care. Oooh, M$ first party exclusive software, oh, drool. Sorry, I don't think so. Nintendo can do this, M$ can't. What about third parties, well, third parties have liked the xbox because it's a higher spec platform. Customers have bought the xbox versions of third party titles because they're considered the best version. Take that away, and what happens to third party developers and won't customers wind up buying the ps3 "superior" version instead.

It could be a deadly combination with third party developers climbing onboard the ps3 juggernaut anyway and if the ps3 provides the superior hardware platform, it could be just a matter of time, before developers throw their allegiance fully behind the ps3 and ditch the xbox 2 entirely.

Sorry this was thrown together so quickly; I'd have liked to found the epic rant about why Live sucks, and maybe ask Waco why now it suddenly blows away free online gaming on PC.

Anyway guys, don't take my word for it that the 360's a rip and waiting on Ps3 makes all the sense in the world--take the words of one time heavy weight champion of Systems Wars. . . Waco the Kid!!!!

[Gadfly2317]

Subject line isn't mocking; just a reference to the regret I feel at public crucifiction. And also, I'm not putting Waco up for ridicule; I really feel this is a "Best of Tribute." And I mean that seriously. This is some of Waco's best work here at Sys Wars.

[Mochan]

This is not going to end well.

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But that's how we like it in System Wars! :p

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

Since little has changed information-wise since over the last six months, what do you think really accounts for the flip-flop?

The games. There has been a lot of info about 360 games these past few months, which could change anyone's mind. OXM currently has an Oblivion article which is pretty good, and PGR3 & DOA4 were also cover stories a few issues ago, along with other 360 game articles.

Also, the games coming out for the current gen may not wow a gamer enough to ignore a next-gen system.

[Gadfly2317]

The games. There has been a lot of info about 360 games these past few months, which could change anyone's mind. OXM currently has an Oblivion article which is pretty good, and PGR3 & DOA4 were also cover stories a few issues ago, along with other 360 game articles.

Also, the games coming out for the current gen may not wow a gamer enough to ignore a next-gen system.

Nothing personal, but WEAK dude; Oblivion was at E3. AND PGR3 and DOA4, well again, let me just answer with Waco's accurate observation: I don't see the Zen of gaming . . . but mostly games that had a number after them, and mostly games that are either appearing on other platforms or have been tarted up. . . . . PGR3, first thing I went before viewing the clip, was, am I going to race around in empty environments yet again.

Nothing is new, we've known pretty much all about the 360 line-up and its games since E3 and before. The ONLY thing that's changed is Waco's predictions of glory for the PsP didn't pan out, and he decided he wants to play some sports games now so he's trading it in for a 360. I can respect that. What I'd respect even more is if he'd stop just spew hot-air about whatever system he's currently got a woody for, regain SOME objectivity, and stand by his earlier statements, which are just straight up honest, objective and true.

He lost all objectivity when he decided to actually try to rationalize the 360 to himself, to try and glorify it beyond reason, rather than just admitting it's just as crappy as he said all along but that he wants some hi-def sports games NOW, price be damned and doesn't mind eating a little crow to do so.

I ate crow buying a PsP, but I STILL stand by 80% of the criticisms I made against it in the early DS vs PsP threads, I still believe its the least value purchase and the less fun gaming system, and I'm also pretty pleased to see most of my predictions about the "potential" for the DS were accurate, vs. less objective observers who repeatedly called it "a gimmick" or a "childs toy" or that it would be filled with "N64 ports."

Changing your mind. . .it happens. But a set of consistent gaming values will carry through in your posts even when you decide to find something to praise in a console you once criticized. But a complete schizophrenic 180 on everything you've said before just because you want a system you used to bash. . . that's going to cost you all your credibility.

[trebor]

Subject line isn't mocking; just a reference to the regret I feel at public crucifiction.

Actually, I think the subject line is spot on, because as of late Waco has adopted somewhat of a Jesus complex, IMHO.


Classic, I"m a genius to the sony fanboyz when I defended the honor of the ps2 with my long assed posts, callling out and taking on the xbot hordes which I did virtually on my own. Waco you da man, but now when I take sony to task with their smoke and mirrors show and take a relatively unbiased view of the 360, I'm now writing shallow and unfleshed out opinions. LMAO! Oh, the hypocrisy of the sony milk drinking contigent of which mandork is a charter member. Ack, ack, ack.

Read this. There are some classic Martyr statements to be had here...

"taking on the xbot hordes which I did virtually on my own"

"now when I take sony to task with their smoke and mirrors show "

But he also has this total God-complex, hyper-ego this going on as well...

"I"m a genius to the sony fanboyz when I defended the honor of the ps2"

"Waco you da man"

...

So we have a martyr in our midst, with delusions of grandeur, that is taking on hordes of injustice against the poor 360. If that isn't a Jesus complex, then I don't know what is.

[Mochan]

What I want to see is FPS on consoles use lightguns. I still can't adjust to analogue sticks for that and if we had some way to use Light Guns plus say some foot pedals, that would be great and be far more "in the game" than just using mice or analogue sticks.

[mandark]

What I want to see is FPS on consoles use lightguns. I still can't adjust to analogue sticks for that and if we had some way to use Light Guns plus say some foot pedals, that would be great and be far more "in the game" than just using mice or analogue sticks.
Thats not a bad idea. Add on a headpiece with a sensor to control LOOK commands and your all set. I would then presume that all weapon commands ie. changing, reloading, zooming would then be on the light gun. Sell the idea Mochan and make sure to send me my royalties.

[Mochan]

Current light guns already have enough buttons to do zooming and reloading and stuff like that. Probably not enough though to handle a lot of the more complex actions on some shooters like Battlefield 2, though.

But I think it's something we can start. The main problem is getting movement down to pat. Foot pedals was one idea but somehow I think it might not be enough to really get it right. Gun Survivor games use a d-pad on the gun itself, maybe one hand is on the gun while the other is on a control device (like hafl the gamepad) though that would suck because sometimes it's cool to hold the gun in both hands.

A headpiece with sensor may work for looking, though, that sounds great.

And of course the biggest issue is that hardware for this should become standard or good games won't be made for them! I mean the lightgun genre on the PS2 is all but dead (it has what? A grand total of 3 franchises or something? Gun Survivor, Time Crisis and Vampire Night? Hahaha)

And man why did I hijack this thread, I think I blurted that out of nowhere.

[Gadfly2317]

And man why did I hijack this thread, I think I blurted that out of nowhere.

You hijacked the thread! It's a good topic though; I'd been thinking of starting a thread about what kind of kookie ideas we have for games. . .I've had some ideas regarding light guns too being used in a genre they've never been used in, ideas that I think would make a super cool but not very commercial game.

Maybe we should move this track to its own thread. . .surely you are not alone in having ideas for interfaces we'd like to see and/or alterations to gameplay.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

But let me quickly say this.

Gadfly you are really making me sick accusing the XBOX and 360 of being sequel land. Yes there are sequels and numbers behind the XBOX and 360 titles. But there are also sequels and numbers behind GC, PS2, and PC titles. So this argument is just dumb. If anything, the numbers behind XBOX titles are SMALLER than those behind PS2/GC & PC titles. Take a look. What are you on, Armored Core 7? Silent Hill what 5 is upcoming. How many Tekkens have there been? And let's not get started on Mario and Zelda. To make it worse, they rehash the same crap on DS and PSP. Even horrible titles like Ridge Racer. Was any body begging for another Ridge Racer?

There were two Project Gothams on XBOX. How many Gran Tourismo's were there? And that's not even counting the promised GT4 online. There was one Ninja Gaiden. How many Onimusha and Devil May Crys were there? There was 2 Halo's, so how many GTA where there? 3 right? So excuse me if fans and developers want to continue these great franchises on 360. And need we even bring the PC into this. No, PC needs to stay outta these debates.

I think it is more important that the actual gameplay of these sequels on 360 is different not the name. First of all, if the XBOX 360 was launching with no PROVEN sequels, you guys and the industry more importantly would be saying the platform was launching with NO AAA content. So it is mandatory to launch with GREAT sequels. Second, consumers support sequels with $$$$$$ and only test new projects tepidly, for examples of this, see MADDEN for cryin' out loud and Jade Empire and Forza for examples of new great stuff getting lukewarm reception.

So, this is really a red herring. But you seem to be losing any and all sense of judgement, your fairness was long ago thrown out the window. Or your attempt at disguising your hatred of MS. Its good that at least you don't put on a front for everyone anymore.

Finally, how can you rave about the new titles, when one doesn't even know which ones will be great. We don't even know the total launch and launch window line-ups, yet alone which games will be great. So it is hard to start bragging on Dark Sector or some other obscure game we know little about. That is the surprise of launch and the great thing about new content. Being surprised. I don't want to know every single thing about all the new games, I want to be surprised. And there will be some surprise new great titles, just don't kill the developers if they ever attempt to make a sequel when their game does blow up big time.

[slade]

There were two Project Gothams on XBOX. How many Gran Tourismo's were there?

Two.

And that's not even counting the promised GT4 online.

You're counting a game that wasn't even released? Oh, I get it now. In which case, we should count the rumored Halo 2.5, making it 3 Halo's released on X-box. Hell, let's go all the way back to Halo 1.5 and make it 4 Halo's released on X-box.

There was one Ninja Gaiden. How many Onimusha and Devil May Crys were there?

That's not exactly putting anything in X-box's favor. If anything, it might have actually raised the platform's appeal if there were more games in Ninja Gaiden's flavor instead of just giving you guys DOA rehashes and the umpteenth version of Tom Clancy's games.

There was 2 Halo's, so how many GTA where there? 3 right?

No no, there were four Halo's. Stick by what you've said.

So excuse me if fans and developers want to continue these great franchises on 360.

Well see, that's what happens when you prematurely kill off a platform.

[Mochan]

Well actually, there have been four Ninja Gaidens. ;P

But yes, I see your point and it's true that there is no point calling XBox 360 as sequel land. If anything the 360 is trying ot create new franchises. I know Red Company is doing a brand new RPG, and Mistwalker I heard is doing two new games. While Namco is also releasing a new game (I forgot the title though).

[Gadfly2317]

But let me quickly say this.

Gadfly you are really making me sick accusing the XBOX and 360 of being sequel land.

Hey, I didn't say it, Waco did. This thread is all about Waco's extensive and precise analysis of the 360 and MS as a company with poor intentions and results in the game industry.

Argue with Waco.

[Gadfly2317]

TMG:
I have realized I don't need wear out my own fingers pointing out what a waste of time and money the 360 is when I can just respond by cutting and pasting Waco, who has more eloquently destroyed the 360 than any of the rest of us could ever hope to.

[mandark]

Finally, how can you rave about the new titles, when one doesn't even know which ones will be great. We don't even know the total launch and launch window line-ups, yet alone which games will be great. So it is hard to start bragging on Dark Sector or some other obscure game we know little about. That is the surprise of launch and the great thing about new content. Being surprised. I don't want to know every single thing about all the new games, I want to be surprised. And there will be some surprise new great titles, just don't kill the developers if they ever attempt to make a sequel when their game does blow up big time.

In this note can you then stop telling us how the 360 launch lineup cannot be equalled or surpassed by any other console that will follow. Like you said we have no idea how these launch titles will pan out. They all look great in still life but we have no idea what the gameplay will be. So to say in your previous posts that Gears of War, PDO, etc. will be unmatched also has to stop.
Sony launch line up is totally unknown right now. But that doesn't necessarily mean there won't be any.

[T.Tashi]

Slade, I'm having deja vu. Remember Massimodo? He was from Canada, was pro Playstation, vehemently switched, attacked everyone that disagreed with him until I think he actually threatened someone and got banned.

[Jupiter_x]

Gadfly, I see your point here!
I admit that I was thrown into confusion with Waco's change of heart. It was like freakin' night and day!!! :confused: I seriously thought he was simply just kidding around at first.

[Fivespot]

To Waco's credit, he is certainly one of the most passionate gamers on VGR. Although he may have switched sides - I admire his courage to do so.

He knew he would be picked apart by vultures but still stuck to his guns!! I have also been critical of him lately mainly due to the name calling which I still would like to see stop in favor of more constructive criticisms/arguments.

It sure seems like a gang up on all XBOTS environment lately and Waco is one of the few not partaking. We need more diversity around here! It's what fuels these discussions.

[T.Tashi]

To Waco's credit, he is certainly one of the most passionate gamers on VGR. Although he may have switched sides - I admire his courage to do so.

He knew he would be picked apart by vultures but still stuck to his guns!! I have also been critical of him lately mainly due to the name calling which I still would like to see stop in favor of more constructive criticisms/arguments.

It sure seems like a gang up on all XBOTS environment lately and Waco is one of the few not partaking. We need more diversity around here! It's what fuels these discussions.
That's what makes System Wars fun, or at least interesting. You only have to look at the Moody/Folken Wars to see the epitome of it... for better or worse. :)

[Superior Beatslayer]

Two.



You're counting a game that wasn't even released? Oh, I get it now. In which case, we should count the rumored Halo 2.5, making it 3 Halo's released on X-box. Hell, let's go all the way back to Halo 1.5 and make it 4 Halo's released on X-box.



That's not exactly putting anything in X-box's favor. If anything, it might have actually raised the platform's appeal if there were more games in Ninja Gaiden's flavor instead of just giving you guys DOA rehashes and the umpteenth version of Tom Clancy's games.



No no, there were four Halo's. Stick by what you've said.



Well see, that's what happens when you prematurely kill off a platform.

Slade, that is a bull**** response. I understand what you were getting at but the Gran Turismo series were ALL the same, boring and extremely repetitive. IMO the PGR series is so much better is pretty much every aspect, except that you can't buy stuff for your vehicles. Secondly, there was ONE rehash of DOA on Xbox, and it blew the other DOA games out of the water. And how many Final Fantasy games were there on the PS2? 18?

[slade]

Slade, I'm having deja vu. Remember Massimodo? He was from Canada, was pro Playstation, vehemently switched, attacked everyone that disagreed with him until I think he actually threatened someone and got banned.

Pah, he is Massimodo. Don't let anyone, especially him, tell you otherwise.

[slade]

Slade, that is a bull**** response. I understand what you were getting at but the Gran Turismo series were ALL the same, boring and extremely repetitive. IMO the PGR series is so much better is pretty much every aspect, except that you can't buy stuff for your vehicles. Secondly, there was ONE rehash of DOA on Xbox, and it blew the other DOA games out of the water. And how many Final Fantasy games were there on the PS2? 18?

You are not going to convince me that the PGR series improved itself to a great deal in each installment. In any case, this seems more a case of you liking arcade racers then sim racers.

And there have only been two actual FF games on PS2. FFXI was a pretty big departure from the rest of the series. And FFXII won't be out till next year.

Finally, you're forgetting about DOA Ultimate.

[shogun]

I liked PGR back when it was MSR on Dreamcast. The new one is the 4th in the series. In any case, the fact that PS3 will have sequels is irrelavant. XBoxers attacked PS2 when it came out for having too many sequals of PSOne games.You;d think that would mean dumping MS when XBox 2 got too many XBoxOne games..

[theWacoKid]

Subject line isn't mocking; just a reference to the regret I feel at public crucifiction. And also, I'm not putting Waco up for ridicule; I really feel this is a "Best of Tribute." And I mean that seriously. This is some of Waco's best work here at Sys Wars.

LMAO! I can't believe that you went to that effort on my account. I was wondering when someone would get around to dredging up the archives.

I don't know about theWacoKid dying for anybody's sins, but I do think its time he died, was buried and hopefully doesn't rise from the dead three days from now. If people think he's been tiring and tedious to read, he's been even more tiring and tedious to write. So, draw, WacoKid, bang, you're dead, asta la vista baby, bid adieu to theWacoKid, folks.

So, apologies are in order, theWacoKid for whom I am responsible has insulted far too many people to keep track of and has been a little too nasty and personal on one too many occassions. I won't bother explaining a rationale for my actions except that there was a method to my madness, but that doesn't excuse ignorant, rude, and offensive behavior, so my heartfelt apologies to all and if someone truly took offense, I can only hope that they can see past the ravings of an extreme madman who has been accurately characterized as a mental case. And I can assure posters here and the moderators that there will not be any further occurrences of that kind. TheWacoKid as you have known him truly is dead from henceforth. If there's someone regretting his overdue ride into the sunset, sorry guys, I just can't keep it up any longer.

So, what do I really think about the systems? Well, I pretty much like them all to a greater or lesser extent. Its quicker for me to rattle off systems I haven't owned than systems I have. What I've confessed to having played, owned, bought and sold with respect to games and systems is accurate. But, I don't really care who it is bringing me a system as much as what they bring to it. Be that nintendo, sega, ms or sony.

When it comes to the xbox 360 and the ps3, I can see a strong positives for both sides, I can see some strong negatives for both as well. I don't think there is anything wrong with someone purchasing a 360 as long as they know what they're getting into and the type of games that are likely to dominate. Perhaps MS can broaden their game lineup from japanese developers, which I think would go a long way to addressing problems on the lack of variety and then again, maybe they won't. They'll almost certainly do better than this gen, but its a big question mark if it'll be enough. The 360 hardware is exceptional regardless of how people want to spin it. Does the 360 have problems? Yeah, sure, what system doesn't. Is it launching too early? Well, there's two sides to that coin. If you view the dreamcast as being the start of next gen, then I think next gen is long overdue. If you see the xbox as a platform that was just hitting its stride, then MS is launching too early. I think in the final analysis, MS was bleeding too much red ink with the xbox, and they're hoping launching ahead of sony will help sway developers to view the 360 as the platform to develop on first and then develop for the ps3 or perhaps avoid developing for the ps3 at all, if they can establish enough of a sales base before the ps3 launches.

The ps3 is difficult for me to evaluate, because I honestly don't know how many features will be retained when the ps3 ships. I don't know when the ps3 will ship. I don't believe that sony would bother launching the ps3 in any other time frame but the holidays in NA. Sony had too many unsold psp units when the psp launched in march. The pricing is also a big question mark. I'm not as optimstic as some concernng prices at the $299 mark. At that price, I'd be tempted to buy multiple units at launch and do some major scalpage on ebay. Also, I don't know what kind of impact bluray will have or if it can establish itself as a standard. The system certainly has tremendous potential but can sony make the system developer friendly enough this time around.

And I can't comment on the software, because I have no idea what we would be looking at in terms of a launch lineup and really, what have we seen that's playable. Basically, I think its too early to weigh in on the ps3 until more is revealed. I can certainly understand people waiting till the ps3 launches and then making a decision, but I can also understand people wanting to buy a next gen system in november. I guess, for me, its a case, of new hardware tech lust and for canadians, the pricing isn't a big issue.

Xbox, $449 can at launch, a/v pack, I think $30. Xbox 360, $499, a/v pack included. Xbox live is now $20 cheaper for canadians, so basically its a wash for the xbox vs. xbox 360 and I think the 360 is a major advancement in hardware over the xbox. I think the overall 360 lineup is also better than the xbox lineup. There were some really crappy early xbox games, like Azurik, Nightcaster, Bruce Lee, New Legends, etc. I'm not seeing those kinds of games on the 360. Plus, my pc really does suck for gaming and I really would like to play games like COD2 and Oblivion. I think this time around, the 360 can do justice to games like that, where I think this gen, that wasn't always the case.

And the revolver, er revolution, love to hear more about it, perhaps nintendo will finally reveal the controller design at TGS. Also, I'd like to hear more about the hardware itself. Considering that nintendo is using ATI and they did a pretty bang up job on the 360 for MS, they should be able to do something fairly impressive for the revolution. They remain an interesting dark horse entry. I just hope they can convince enough third parties to take a chance and develop for the system, otherwise, it could be the last console nintendo ever makes, which would be a shame.

And yes, unfortunately, I will continue to remain somewhat long winded.

[Gadfly2317]

Thanks Waco, and keep being long winded!

We wouldn't dredge up the past if we didn't care or notice. We all know that bias is what makes this place so fun.

Otherwise it would be: "I like videogames; all videogame systems have pro's and cons; I'm buying the new one because it's new and I'm ready for new." Where's the fun in that?

[trebor]

LMAO! I can't believe that you went to that effort on my account. I was wondering when someone would get around to dredging up the archives.

I don't know about theWacoKid dying for anybody's sins, but I do think its time he died, was buried and hopefully doesn't rise from the dead three days from now. If people think he's been tiring and tedious to read, he's been even more tiring and tedious to write. So, draw, WacoKid, bang, you're dead, asta la vista baby, bid adieu to theWacoKid, folks.

So, apologies are in order, theWacoKid for whom I am responsible has insulted far too many people to keep track of and has been a little too nasty and personal on one too many occassions. I won't bother explaining a rationale for my actions except that there was a method to my madness, but that doesn't excuse ignorant, rude, and offensive behavior, so my heartfelt apologies to all and if someone truly took offense, I can only hope that they can see past the ravings of an extreme madman who has been accurately characterized as a mental case. And I can assure posters here and the moderators that there will not be any further occurrences of that kind. TheWacoKid as you have known him truly is dead from henceforth. If there's someone regretting his overdue ride into the sunset, sorry guys, I just can't keep it up any longer.

...

Too bad, so sad, I don't believe a word of this.

What I really think is that you backed yourself into a corner, have been caught, and now you're claiming "it was all an act, here's what I REALLY think". I've seen this too many times on various forums to accept this angle.

Personally, I prefer the lunatic, raving WacoKid, even if he is a major @$$hole, because at least I could always believe where he stood - even if where he stood has changed in the course of several months. Now, that last shred of credibility is completely vanished - nobody should believe a word that you type in a post.

[The Prince of Darkness]

That's what makes System Wars fun, or at least interesting. You only have to look at the Moody/Folken Wars to see the epitome of it... for better or worse. :)

Exactly. I am glad that Ski and yourself mentioned this. Let's face facts here. The current-gen arguments are just stale at this point because the system war has been over for quite some time. The next-gen arguments really have no validity at all until they are competing side by side. Hell, the only semi-interesting arguments at all stem from the battle of the handhelds. In fact, gamewise, that argument is practically non-existent too. The DS is just killing the PSP in that department. So...with all that being said I too give Waco all the credit for trying to spice up this place by flip-flopping. That is why I have not been around lately. I have a hard enough time arguing for something that I am passionate about much less arguing for the other side.

[theWacoKid]

...

Too bad, so sad, I don't believe a word of this.

What I really think is that you backed yourself into a corner, have been caught, and now you're claiming "it was all an act, here's what I REALLY think". I've seen this too many times on various forums to accept this angle.

Personally, I prefer the lunatic, raving WacoKid, even if he is a major @$$hole, because at least I could always believe where he stood - even if where he stood has changed in the course of several months. Now, that last shred of credibility is completely vanished - nobody should believe a word that you type in a post.

Well, you'll never really know, that's that the thing about the internet, so you really won't know if this is a mind game or not. But, your reaction kind of proves my point. In essence, you'd rather have a raving lunatic to fight a battle against than a normal discourse with theWacoKid. Its tough to pretend you're Batman if there are no villians to fight. Basically, you've separated theWacokid as his own personality, this kind of brand of soda pop. Now, if i'm theWacoKid and that really is my unalterable personality profile, something I can't escape, then over time theWacoKid should return to form.

Everyone puts on an act on the internet, you acquire a username that isn't your name, you form allegiances and rivalries with people you don't know. Its a big game of let's pretend, you can be anybody you really want and take any position you desire without much consideration for the consequences. What's the worst thing that can happen on a message board if you get out of control. You'll get banned and that's not reallly a punishment. You can regress here, responsible adult with a wife, two kids and a mortgage, you get to act like an infantile child insulting people and calling them names. Its like one long pillow fight. Why do people argue in the first place? I think its to seek attention. Its like, look at me, pay attention to me. Everyone acts out, but, lets get serious here, if in fact, what you're sayiing here is that theWacoKid is my actual day to day functioning personality, don't you think that, that would be a little out there. I mean, who would put up with that. TheWacokid is so offensive, overbearing and obnoxious, I'd probably beat him up myself.

We have multiple personalities, we're the person we are when people are looking, wer're the person we are, when people aren't. Is theWacoKid an element of my personality? Sure, he didn't vaporize out of thin air. But, he was an element of my personality pushed to a ridiculous extreme. Herman Hesse in one of his books, I think it was steppenwolf, said, that a person is like the facets of a diamond and each facet is a distinct element that makes up that person. TheWacokid is a facet of my personality along with many other facets.

But, you're going to believe what you're going to believe and I can respect that. After all, I made some pretty nasty personal remarks that were uncalled for and for that I do apologize. I mean, my options were, continue on to play up theWacokid and add more and more insult, flip flop back over to the sony side or become a nintendo evangelist, blow town completely, or forget about it and make an exit point with gadfly's thread. I can't do theWacoKid anymore, he is an A$$hole! But, most of what makes up me isn't. I'd say theWacoKid makes up about 5% of what makes up me and that's probably pushing it.

Does anybody on this board actually believe that theWacoKid truly exists? I've often wondered if its actually possible to insult people over the internet? When I insult you, who or what am I insulting? Who or what is a trebor? Some words typed out my computer screen and based on that I have to supply with my imagination a personality to go along with those words. Can you insult words on a computer screen with a useranme attached to them.

I've been a member of message boards for a long while. Rarely posted, maybe 50 posts a year, tops, off and on, mostly for asking questions, getting info on a subject. Then I noticed that on forums, people made a big deal of how many posts they made. Yeah, 1000 posts, that kind of thing. Then I looked closer and some posters had 5000 posts, 10,000 posts, 20,000 and higher than that. These weren't people that were just posting to find out stuff, this was something different.

Message boards can be an addiction in their own right. A form of digital crack. You post, and you can't wait for someone to respond so you can reply back. When a message board becomes a form of social communication, people will fall into roles, even if they don't think they are. One guy becomes the voice of reason, one guy is mr. technical guru, one is the cheerleader, one is the peacekeeper, one is the negative disruptive element, one is the obnoxious know-it-all, one is the knee jerk reactionary, one guy is the old school retro gaming fan, etc, etc.

Basically, I got hooked on this. Message boards have little dramas going on, we tune in to see battle royals to see which poster will own the other, who will win the battle of wits, etc. Its the non-info side of the internet, with its own little subculture. Lets see if I can get in one more parting shot before bed, because I really got to get up early in the morning. So, theWacoKid is a role I fell into and I've had fun with him. He gave me a chance to work off hostility in a non-destructive environment, at least to my way of thinking. I can be a bully and pick on people, steal their lunch money and push a kid's face in the mud. It doesn't suprise me one bit, that Rockstar is making a game called Bully. Deep down, all of us would love the opportunity to be a bully. The huge sales of the GTA series show how much people want to escape their lives and assume a role, that of a bad ass totally immorall psychotic.

I think the internet message board phenomenom isn't that much different. You still have massive roleplaying. MMORPGs are referred to as digital crack and I think it has far less to do with how fun the actual game is, than it has to do with this entire aspect of assuming a role in this imaginary world.

[theWacoKid]

Thanks Waco, and keep being long winded!

We wouldn't dredge up the past if we didn't care or notice. We all know that bias is what makes this place so fun.

Otherwise it would be: "I like videogames; all videogame systems have pro's and cons; I'm buying the new one because it's new and I'm ready for new." Where's the fun in that?

Sigh, I don't think this ruse is working. Waco kid mode back on.

I play devil's advocate, so sue me. I can argue both sides of systems and games. Its not flip flopping its reality. You can tell a lie and the truth at the same time. I'm not theWacoKid, its a lie and its the truth. I am theWacoKid, same thing, both a lie and the truth. I think MS has said some stupid things and made highly questionable decisions. I think they've made some smart moves and done a lot of things right. Which is correct? How about both.

And I'm not sorry for having insulted people. If you're offended, grow a set. As Kevin Bacon, says in Diner, Fu$% mature. If I'm hypocritical and often I am, its just reflective of the hypocrisy and double standards of this board and others. People should be happy to hear that I'm knocking heads over at teamxbox. Some guy sent me a nasty pm. Called me a bitter petulant child. The nerve. And another guy just called me a dumbass and an idiot, just because I tried to help him out and point out a few mistakes in his logic. Some people, man, I tell you.

Truth is, theWacoKid isn't me, but I like theWacoKid. I wish I was like theWacoKid in real life. The BS that goes down in this world is just incredible. You can either take it up or the ass or fight back. I think its better to go down swinging than be a victim waiting to happen.

The 360 is going to do a lot better than you think it is, and the ps3 is going to have problems. Sony is counting too heavily on sequels already in a state of decline. MGS4, DMC4, Tekken 6. You know, MGS3, DMC3, and Tekken 5 didn't light the sales charts on fire. So, people counting on the sequels to be heavy hitters are being very optimistic. The ps3 lineup just ain't that strong. And at some point, sony can't keep doing the smoke and mirrors act, they have to show something. And when they do, it better be like effin killzone, because sony said that was real. Good old jack tretton, vp, on video, yeah, its real. Lying little maggotty weasel.

360 is paid for, good to go. The madden vid ain't that bad. Not great, but its a definite step up from current gen madden. People see a push tackle, and no wrap around tackles, so automatically they think, there won't be any wrap around tackles in the game. It's a minute vid, you're not going to be able to show the hundreds of animations from the game. People are morons, plain and simple. No wonder I get pissed and slap them upside the head.

[Gadfly2317]

Well, you'll never really know, that's that the thing about the internet, so you really won't know if this is a mind game or not. But, your reaction kind of proves my point. In essence, you'd rather have a raving lunatic to fight a battle against than a normal discourse with theWacoKid. Its tough to pretend you're Batman if there are no villians to fight. Basically, you've separated theWacokid as his own personality, this kind of brand of soda pop. Now, if i'm theWacoKid and that really is my unalterable personality profile, something I can't escape, then over time theWacoKid should return to form.

Everyone puts on an act on the internet, you acquire a username that isn't your name, you form allegiances and rivalries with people you don't know. Its a big game of let's pretend, you can be anybody you really want and take any position you desire without much consideration for the consequences. What's the worst thing that can happen on a message board if you get out of control. You'll get banned and that's not reallly a punishment. You can regress here, responsible adult with a wife, two kids and a mortgage, you get to act like an infantile child insulting people and calling them names. Its like one long pillow fight. Why do people argue in the first place? I think its to seek attention. Its like, look at me, pay attention to me. Everyone acts out, but, lets get serious here, if in fact, what you're sayiing here is that theWacoKid is my actual day to day functioning personality, don't you think that, that would be a little out there. I mean, who would put up with that. TheWacokid is so offensive, overbearing and obnoxious, I'd probably beat him up myself.

We have multiple personalities, we're the person we are when people are looking, wer're the person we are, when people aren't. Is theWacoKid an element of my personality? Sure, he didn't vaporize out of thin air. But, he was an element of my personality pushed to a ridiculous extreme. Herman Hesse in one of his books, I think it was steppenwolf, said, that a person is like the facets of a diamond and each facet is a distinct element that makes up that person. TheWacokid is a facet of my personality along with many other facets.

But, you're going to believe what you're going to believe and I can respect that. After all, I made some pretty nasty personal remarks that were uncalled for and for that I do apologize. I mean, my options were, continue on to play up theWacokid and add more and more insult, flip flop back over to the sony side or become a nintendo evangelist, blow town completely, or forget about it and make an exit point with gadfly's thread. I can't do theWacoKid anymore, he is an A$$hole! But, most of what makes up me isn't. I'd say theWacoKid makes up about 5% of what makes up me and that's probably pushing it.

Does anybody on this board actually believe that theWacoKid truly exists? I've often wondered if its actually possible to insult people over the internet? When I insult you, who or what am I insulting? Who or what is a trebor? Some words typed out my computer screen and based on that I have to supply with my imagination a personality to go along with those words. Can you insult words on a computer screen with a useranme attached to them.

I've been a member of message boards for a long while. Rarely posted, maybe 50 posts a year, tops, off and on, mostly for asking questions, getting info on a subject. Then I noticed that on forums, people made a big deal of how many posts they made. Yeah, 1000 posts, that kind of thing. Then I looked closer and some posters had 5000 posts, 10,000 posts, 20,000 and higher than that. These weren't people that were just posting to find out stuff, this was something different.

Message boards can be an addiction in their own right. A form of digital crack. You post, and you can't wait for someone to respond so you can reply back. When a message board becomes a form of social communication, people will fall into roles, even if they don't think they are. One guy becomes the voice of reason, one guy is mr. technical guru, one is the cheerleader, one is the peacekeeper, one is the negative disruptive element, one is the obnoxious know-it-all, one is the knee jerk reactionary, one guy is the old school retro gaming fan, etc, etc.

Basically, I got hooked on this. Message boards have little dramas going on, we tune in to see battle royals to see which poster will own the other, who will win the battle of wits, etc. Its the non-info side of the internet, with its own little subculture. Lets see if I can get in one more parting shot before bed, because I really got to get up early in the morning. So, theWacoKid is a role I fell into and I've had fun with him. He gave me a chance to work off hostility in a non-destructive environment, at least to my way of thinking. I can be a bully and pick on people, steal their lunch money and push a kid's face in the mud. It doesn't suprise me one bit, that Rockstar is making a game called Bully. Deep down, all of us would love the opportunity to be a bully. The huge sales of the GTA series show how much people want to escape their lives and assume a role, that of a bad ass totally immorall psychotic.

I think the internet message board phenomenom isn't that much different. You still have massive roleplaying. MMORPGs are referred to as digital crack and I think it has far less to do with how fun the actual game is, than it has to do with this entire aspect of assuming a role in this imaginary world.

I don't normally quote whole posts for a short response. . . but with a few edits and alterations, this would make a good freelance article to submit somewhere. You've really hit the nail on the head about message board culture.

[trebor]

Sigh, I don't think this ruse is working. Waco kid mode back on.

Ruse, no ruse - it doesn't matter, for all intents and purposes, WacoKid is dead. You blew your shtick, and now we all know it.


I play devil's advocate, so sue me. I can argue both sides of systems and games. Its not flip flopping its reality. You can tell a lie and the truth at the same time. I'm not theWacoKid, its a lie and its the truth. I am theWacoKid, same thing, both a lie and the truth. I think MS has said some stupid things and made highly questionable decisions. I think they've made some smart moves and done a lot of things right. Which is correct? How about both.

No. You're a troll, plain and simple - that is the only truth.


And I'm not sorry for having insulted people. If you're offended, grow a set. As Kevin Bacon, says in Diner, Fu$% mature. If I'm hypocritical and often I am, its just reflective of the hypocrisy and double standards of this board and others. People should be happy to hear that I'm knocking heads over at teamxbox. Some guy sent me a nasty pm. Called me a bitter petulant child. The nerve. And another guy just called me a dumbass and an idiot, just because I tried to help him out and point out a few mistakes in his logic. Some people, man, I tell you.

So you go around trolling on other boards, that's real cute.


Truth is, theWacoKid isn't me, but I like theWacoKid. I wish I was like theWacoKid in real life. The BS that goes down in this world is just incredible. You can either take it up or the ass or fight back. I think its better to go down swinging than be a victim waiting to happen.

Apparently you take it up the ass in real life and can only fight back online, against entities you don't have to face in person. I've often wondered what kind of demented freaks go around trolling on message boards, and now I know. You're a weakling and a coward.


So, theWacoKid is a role I fell into and I've had fun with him. He gave me a chance to work off hostility in a non-destructive environment, at least to my way of thinking. I can be a bully and pick on people, steal their lunch money and push a kid's face in the mud. It doesn't suprise me one bit, that Rockstar is making a game called Bully. Deep down, all of us would love the opportunity to be a bully. The huge sales of the GTA series show how much people want to escape their lives and assume a role, that of a bad ass totally immorall psychotic.

You're not fooling anybody, only somebody so totally insecure and cowardly in real life would take any pleasure in becoming a digital bully.

So, you want to come back and hurl some more insults? Well, keep in mind that I know what you REALLY are - a cowardly turd of a person, whose only goal in life is to piss people off when hiding behind a monitor. So start hurling away, if you take such pleasure in it, cause apparently it's the only thing you've got.

[Mochan]

I can't believe how badly you've self-destructed, Waco.

Honestly, do you really think everyone wants to become a bully? Do you really think everyone wants to turn psycho and wacko? Only someone who's been received such painful social stigma would think of that. I've been the "wall flower' and "odd man out kid" all my young life but it never made me want to become a bully, in real life or on the net, or even in game escapism. Even on the net, I respect people too much to even do so.

Almost everyone wants to be king of the hill or important in one way or another, myself included, but bullying isn't the only way to be that. Heck, on messageboards, being the stable voice of reason, a mod, or even just the brainy kid who knows a lot is already just as capable of filling the "need to be important" role. Being a bully can fill that role too, but in the end it always turns out terribly like it has now, and it's obvious why... because even on the net, people are people, and if you don't respect them, you reap the consequences.

Your psychopathic nature has ostracized you from the majority of the community, if you're fine with playing just the "badboy role" this isn't a problem but then the only thing you will have left is bullying, people won't be praising you for a good job or any of the other social interactions messageboard denizens also usually crave (like you said... it's online dope just like any MMORPG).

Worse, let's face it... everyone on the net who has any kind of attachment to it whatsoever (and if it's dope, you've got an attachment) needs to save face, even bullies. As long as you are dealing with people in a community, whether virtual or not, you have to have to keep your standing with everybody, or at least the primary community, or else the ostracization will drive you crazy. For this reason, the role of the messageboard bully if better fulfilled on newbies rather than on the established members of the community, and any satisfaction you would get would only be in having the rest of the oldtime community behind you goading you on in your bullying. Unfortunately, the people on this board aren't your lackeys and there aren't really any newbies to be bullying, so this role really isn't needed in this community.


Regardless, it's sad that this is the only avenue you could come up with. With your knowledge, you could have stayed content as the "brainy kid" but that you had to dip into bullying shows some severe insecurity and emotional scars that you can't cope with in any other way. Not everyone has these scars, and not everyone needs to cope through bullying.

Sorry if I'm sounding condescending and preachy, maybe I'm "feeling important" here but I think it's better than being a bully, and certainly better than bullying the oldtimers of the community (which is about as stupid as it gets)! Everyone's got their problems but that doesn't excuse you for acting like an ass.


BTW -- on the GTA angle, GTA doesn't really make you want to bully, though it's true it does let you act out a lot of things you couldn't in real life. What it lets me do is be a thief and steal the balloozas out of everyone... this is pretty much in line with how I play RPGs. I just LOVE stealing. I don't know. It must be because in real life there is so much I want to have, but don't have the finances to acquire. Since I don't want to break the law by stealing, GTA and RPGs which are freeform enough to allow it become my catharsis. But I have never felt the need to bully, even in game escapism.

[Gadfly2317]

I'm not quite getting the hostility vent against Waco. I mean, I was just giving him a virtual wedgie. So he took his mask off briefly. Bullying against newbs. . . I hate to do that because they won't stick around.

Sys Wars can be like fight club; sometimes we beat the ever living crap out of each other, with full on verbal assualts. TMG and I just finished hurling some good insults; but its all a fun venting aggressive way to also talk some concrete info and opinions about games and gaming. I've honestly never hated anyone here, even massimodo, even Evolution. I hated Evolution in his role as poster, which was retarded spammer who derailed every thread, but we emailed now and then and when we weren't in character for sys wars we got along fine.

Of course, when posters do have personalities that make them hate each other, it makes it all the more interesting of a soap opera; so Waco vs Trebor (previously Trebor vs Glockstar) make great drama. I still like AoE's highly organized and succesful attempt to drive Evolution right over the edge of sanity--that was about as good as it gets for online smashmouth.

[theWacoKid]

I'm not quite getting the hostility vent against Waco. I mean, I was just giving him a virtual wedgie. So he took his mask off briefly. Bullying against newbs. . . I hate to do that because they won't stick around.

Sys Wars can be like fight club; sometimes we beat the ever living crap out of each other, with full on verbal assualts. TMG and I just finished hurling some good insults; but its all a fun venting aggressive way to also talk some concrete info and opinions about games and gaming. I've honestly never hated anyone here, even massimodo, even Evolution. I hated Evolution in his role as poster, which was retarded spammer who derailed every thread, but we emailed now and then and when we weren't in character for sys wars we got along fine.

Of course, when posters do have personalities that make them hate each other, it makes it all the more interesting of a soap opera; so Waco vs Trebor (previously Trebor vs Glockstar) make great drama. I still like AoE's highly organized and succesful attempt to drive Evolution right over the edge of sanity--that was about as good as it gets for online smashmouth.

I do, thebore hates my guts, he's taken this mega personal, especially ever since I called him out on his couldn't spare the extra $20 for the DS because he had his mortgage to worry about. This isn't about taking off the mask. The big laugh here is that its thebore's mask who's been taken off, not mine. Look at the venom dripping from this guy, he'd like to see me burn in hell. I've found out now what he really thinks and feels and its pretty much what I expected.

And listen to mochan, wow, my psychopathatic nature has ostracized me from the community. OH, so self-important, Sigmund jr speaks. A few guys jerking off on a message board is now a community. Like it makes a difference whether I'm accepted or not. If you have to seek acceptance on a message board, then your life must be in shambles. So, what's going to happen, they're not going to read or respond to my posts. Good. I"ve told people repeatedly, how many times, if what I say bothers you, hit the ignore button. You'd think they'd done it by now, but, NOOOOOO!

And listen to the self-righteous indignation. Man, I've completed these guy's lives. They've been waiting how long to lay the smack talk down like this. Slay the dragon put the psycho in his place, blah, blah, blah. They're feeling so good about themselves. They've righted the injustice in the universe. Truth is, this is all pretty meaningless.

Repression has caused more wars, deaths than anything I can think of. Look at repressive cultures throughout time and you'll see the birth place of destruction. The guys leading us into wars have one thing in common. NO sense of humor. Uptight a-holes from HItler to the Bushes with a stick up their ass.

The more you try to hide something, the more you reveal about yourself. Every time you say something, there's what you say and what you don't say, but meant to say.

If someone says, something like, oh, "The xbox 360 is an overpriced piece of crap." What he means to say is "People are idiots to even considering buying one." The insult is there, it just hasn't been stated in black and white. If my behavior is THAT outrageous, the mods are there to make the judgement call. And trust me, if their decision was to ban me, its not like I'd be emailing and begging to get re-instated. I mean, how many years do people intend to hang out on this board, anyway and talk about the same stupid things over and over again. I am close to being done, because really, this IS a waste of time. People attaching importance to this board and referring to it as a "community" need to seek professional help, because your priorities in life are major league screwed up. Family and friends are what's important, this place is some place to come to when you're bored and there's nothing good on tv.

The other thing is you can't be hurt by another person's remarks, unless you allow it. People can't humiliate you unless you give them that power. If someone calls you an idiot, the only way that can hurt, is if you think they might be right or if you think that other people will agree and that bothers you. You know what I say, who gives a flying eff what other people think.

I find internet message boards equal parts repuslion and fascination. The stuff here and the replies don't faze me, if anything they re-invigorate. These guys don't want to listen to the ravings of theWacoKId, hit the ignore button and be done with it, stop your whining, grab your skirts ladies and don't let the door hit you on the way out.

[trebor]

I do, thebore hates my guts, he's taken this mega personal, especially ever since I called him out on his couldn't spare the extra $20 for the DS because he had his mortgage to worry about. This isn't about taking off the mask. The big laugh here is that its thebore's mask who's been taken off, not mine. Look at the venom dripping from this guy, he'd like to see me burn in hell. I've found out now what he really thinks and feels and its pretty much what I expected.

Who exactly do I hate? Explain this to me.

"theWacoKid" effectively committed digital Hari Kari a few posts ago, so whoever you are is some random person's bully fantasy being played out. Like I said before "theWacoKid" has been killed off - by the one portraying him, no less.

I don't "hate your guts"...I feel sorry for you. Honestly. I know you would feel more comfortable if I DID hate you and wanted you to burn in hell.


And listen to mochan, wow, my psychopathatic nature has ostracized me from the community. OH, so self-important, Sigmund jr speaks. A few guys jerking off on a message board is now a community. Like it makes a difference whether I'm accepted or not. If you have to seek acceptance on a message board, then your life must be in shambles. So, what's going to happen, they're not going to read or respond to my posts. Good. I"ve told people repeatedly, how many times, if what I say bothers you, hit the ignore button. You'd think they'd done it by now, but, NOOOOOO!

That's just...sad. If you can't see how this is a community, then perhaps you are a sociopath - or at least you like the idea of playing one on the internet. It's unfortunate you have such a low opinion of everybody but yourself, because there are people on this forum who are real, not a fantasy played out, whose opinions hold merit.

[trebor]

I'm not quite getting the hostility vent against Waco. I mean, I was just giving him a virtual wedgie. So he took his mask off briefly. Bullying against newbs. . . I hate to do that because they won't stick around.

Ask yourself if you will ever have another meaningful debate/fight with "Waco" again, knowing that "Waco" is really an online fantasy being played out by some random person.
Sure, we all are at least online exaggerations of our "real" selves, but there is a thread of continuity to who we are when compared with our online counterparts.

When I speak with "Gadfly", for instance, there is enough of the real person who is behind "Gadfly's" exaggerated opinions, so we still get an idea of who this "Gadfly" really is. Now taking what we know of you, from past posts, what if hypothetically we found out you're really Karl Rove, the furthest polar opposite to what we know of "Gadfly's" ideals, how could we ever take you seriously again when you went on one of your political riffs? We couldn't - THAT part of Gadfly would be effectively dead to us.

So now that we know that "Waco" really IS somebody's bully fantasy - he's a fictional character. If I really want a fictional character's opinion, I'll read a book.


Sys Wars can be like fight club; sometimes we beat the ever living crap out of each other, with full on verbal assualts. TMG and I just finished hurling some good insults; but its all a fun venting aggressive way to also talk some concrete info and opinions about games and gaming. I've honestly never hated anyone here, even massimodo, even Evolution. I hated Evolution in his role as poster, which was retarded spammer who derailed every thread, but we emailed now and then and when we weren't in character for sys wars we got along fine.

I feel the same way - I don't hate anybody here, even "The Entity Formally Known As: theWacoKid".


Of course, when posters do have personalities that make them hate each other, it makes it all the more interesting of a soap opera; so Waco vs Trebor (previously Trebor vs Glockstar) make great drama. I still like AoE's highly organized and succesful attempt to drive Evolution right over the edge of sanity--that was about as good as it gets for online smashmouth.

I'm glad you brought up my previous feuds with Glockstar, because it helps illustrate my frustration with "The Entity Formally Known as: theWacoKid", or rather, the hostility towards him, as you put it. Glockstar and I have had more brutal encounters then anything "Waco" could possibly throw at me, but despite this I've found out that him and I have more things in common then I ever could have expected. I found out that he likes some of the same music I do and that we both enjoy the same anime and such. Plus, from the sounds of it, he's a cat person - which is a characteristic I identify with.

Suffice to say, depite our previous battles, I respect Glockstar - even if we happen to battle again in the future, I will still respect him, because I respect the person behind the "Glockstar" identity, the REAL person behind the exaggerated persona.

"Waco" is not real. He is a fictional character - the person typing out his responses has no respect for us, any of us, so that we know nothing about this person. I can't bring myself to "play along" with him - can you?

[Gadfly2317]

Ask yourself if you will ever have another meaningful debate/fight with "Waco" again, knowing that "Waco" is really an online fantasy being played out by some random person.
Sure, we all are at least online exaggerations of our "real" selves, but there is a thread of continuity to who we are when compared with our online counterparts.

I can still debate with him. Personas aside, the arguments exist in the realm of pure idea. I'm a persona here, but not much of one. I let way too much of my real self hang out here, which isn't any healthier, if you ask me.

But, a lot of the guys here I know a little bit now outside of the forums; our sys wars personas are fine; but I agree, Waco's mask was a little thick, a little distand and aloof for a regular. "Waco died for our sins" was just that; death of a persona, so I think Waco talking about his "persona" was playing along with my topic. One Waco died and was replaced by another--Xbot Waco. He can do it over and over for all I care, becoming a Nintendo Revolution fanboy if he wants.

I'm not trying to let him off the hook. In terms of the validity of his current xbox arguments contrasted with his old anti-xbox arguments I was also trying to let the old Waco rise up from the dead; Zombie Waco battling The Waco Kid. But I know what he's saying about Devil's advocate; if he doesn't want to really engage here on a more authentic level, and wants to exist as a persona and use this place to act out that persona while discussing video games. . . que serra.

you're really Karl Rove, the furthest polar opposite to what we know of "Gadfly's" ideals, how could we ever take you seriously again when you went on one of your political riffs? We couldn't - THAT part of Gadfly would be effectively dead to us. Well, you got me there. But I have voted for numerous Republicans in my life, including George the First. Anyway, yeah, it might be a bit harder to take some of his arguments as seriously, but then again, look at what we are arguing about? Definitely not something as important as politics, which actually impacts our lives. ANY video game system I buy, I'll have some fun with it more than likely. We're arguing nuances, or even more, we're like gamblers making elaborate guesses before the horse race. Like the DS vs PsP thing, when both were still pipe dreams; we all did our best to guess what those systems would do in the future. It's fun.

[trebor]

I can still debate with him. Personas aside, the arguments exist in the realm of pure idea. I'm a persona here, but not much of one. I let way too much of my real self hang out here, which isn't any healthier, if you ask me.

But, a lot of the guys here I know a little bit now outside of the forums; our sys wars personas are fine; but I agree, Waco's mask was a little thick, a little distand and aloof for a regular. "Waco died for our sins" was just that; death of a persona, so I think Waco talking about his "persona" was playing along with my topic. One Waco died and was replaced by another--Xbot Waco. He can do it over and over for all I care, becoming a Nintendo Revolution fanboy if he wants.

So, if somebody was pretending to be Bugs Bunny, albeit a Bugs Bunny with intelligent, informative opinions regarding the videogame industry, you would debate with him?

Personally, even though I like intelligent, informative opinions, Bugs Bunny is still a cartoon character, and therefore should be there for amusement - not for interaction.


I'm not trying to let him off the hook. In terms of the validity of his current xbox arguments contrasted with his old anti-xbox arguments I was also trying to let the old Waco rise up from the dead; Zombie Waco battling The Waco Kid. But I know what he's saying about Devil's advocate; if he doesn't want to really engage here on a more authentic level, and wants to exist as a persona and use this place to act out that persona while discussing video games. . . que serra.

Have you seen The Crying Game? I haven't personally, but since I know the ending the movie won't have much impact for me - the gimmick is already used up.

Waco played his own little Crying Game, didn't he? Now that the secret's out, his "in your face" bullyism's are washed up.


Well, you got me there. But I have voted for numerous Republicans in my life, including George the First. Anyway, yeah, it might be a bit harder to take some of his arguments as seriously, but then again, look at what we are arguing about? Definitely not something as important as politics, which actually impacts our lives. ANY video game system I buy, I'll have some fun with it more than likely. We're arguing nuances, or even more, we're like gamblers making elaborate guesses before the horse race. Like the DS vs PsP thing, when both were still pipe dreams; we all did our best to guess what those systems would do in the future. It's fun.

I agree - arguing over videogames is really silly, in the grand scheme of things. I guess I just prefer to argue over silly videogames with somebody based in some form of reality rather then a cartoon character. To each their own, though, if you will still find it fun to debate with Waco after his personal crying game, then you should.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

I agree with Waco to a certain extent. People tend to play out roles and have certain fantasies. It may not be to be a bully or sociopath but the idea of being able to exist outside the rules of society does have some appeal. Maybe we feel deep down that is the only way we could be 100% ourselves. We are all products of our environment. So therefore we act in accordance to the rules of that environment even though we may have desires or wants that may not or we feel may not be accepted by the rules of society.

As for communities on messageboards well I feel this one is. I've been going to Teamxbox since before they merged with MSXbox back before the xbox launched and I've yet to racke up 50 post I've been and insider at ign since before they did insiders and I've yet to hit 50 post there. But I honestly feel that VGR is a community it may not be the most important one in my life but it is one. And it doesn't matter if the entity's here are real or not because the fact is I don't interact with any of you in real life (I don't know what you would call the playing on Xbox live with some members though). So mask or not it doesn't matter. So what if Gadfly is Karl Rove if he makes a legitimate point as Gadfly why can't it be argued on.

But for the record Drunkenthumbmaster isn't that far off from "CJ" well when you allow for the fact that I have only actually been drunk 2 or 3 times in my life (I do drink beer regularly though). But the point is it doesn't matter we interact with the people or "cyber entities" that the posters put forth and even if they aren't real more times than not the opinons and viewpoints usually are and that's what matters