Why do you want a PSP or DS? Games?

[ThaMaskedGamer]

There are more valid reasons to own a 360 than a DS or PSP. And the 360 will have better games available faster than the PSP or DS. Let's face it folks, where are the great games for these systems? Metroid Prime Hunters has been delayed yet again, and Nintendo completely pulled bait and switches, all they did was market Metroid on DS, even included a demo, and when is the game coming? Maybe before the PS3? And if you like action games, where are they at on the DS? I mean, Nintendogs, get that sh*t outta here.

And the PSP, come on, what more can I say. Is there even 1 great game on the system? Seriously? It launched with a bunch of PS2 rejects like Ridge Racer, and all Sony is doing is trying to recreate their whole PS2 library on the PSP, instead of coming up with new content. And the bundle prices? You know I really didn't have much to say about suckas forkin over money for the PSP or DS. I never really posted anything during their respective launches, simply because i'm not into handhelds. But now given all the pure hipocrisy and BS floated around about 360. This has to be said. You can't say anything about the 360 and why you want it, if you are sitting at home with a PSP. And you better not say anything if you have both a PSP and a DS, those two represent complete wastes of hardware, and Nintendo has the nerve to be developing another handheld. This is just ridiculous.

What ever you want to say about the 360, make no mistake it will have WAY more great games at launch and during the launch window than the PSP and DS combined.

Now, i'm going to answer Gadfly's ? in his post and not here. This is a separate question, this isn't even launch, and why the HELL would anyone want a PSP or DS? Games? HELL NAW.

[Gadfly2317]

TMG. . . you are totally "game on" here lately; good to see a pulse in sys wars!

There are more valid reasons to own a 360 than a DS or PSP. And the 360 will have better games available faster than the PSP or DS. Let's face it folks, where are the great games for these systems? Metroid Prime Hunters has been delayed yet again, and Nintendo completely pulled bait and switches, all they did was market Metroid on DS, even included a demo, and when is the game coming? Maybe before the PS3? And if you like action games, where are they at on the DS? I mean, Nintendogs, get that sh*t outta here. . . . .
why the HELL would anyone want a PSP or DS? Games? HELL NAW.

Let's get this one outta the way first: Metroid Prime Hunters getting delayed is the best thing that could have happened: it was delayed to make the game online; I do recall you criticizing Nintendo for not including that in games like this. Also, you should be thrilled to know its actually a FPS, and not a FP Adventure like Metroid Prime. It's a fast, balls-to-the-wall blastathon with the stylus targetting functioning even faster and more accurately than a mouse, in my experience.

Maybe to debate we really ought to define our terms. You ask "where are all the great games?" What is a "Great Game" to you? Do you define that narrowly? I love playing games. Chess is a great game. Horse shoes is a great game. Monkey Ball is a great game. Zuma is a great game. Zelda Ocarina is a great game. Ninja Gaiden is a great game. Texas Hold 'em is a great game.

What makes a great game to me is not graphics, not just tech, its the underlying structure, the design; that it have a simple, addictive hook no matter how deep or shallow the story or graphics attached to that gameplay hook might be. Originality is a major plus, too, because if a game is a lot like another game, the experience is pale and stale compared to those moments when you experience a game that challenges you in ways you've never been challenged, takes you places you've never been taken.

So where are the great games? Are you sleeping under a rock? You make this vague generalization that the 360's launch dwarfs what will be available to anyone considering PsP or DS this holiday instead of the brand new 360 and its $60 titles. I know you've said you've looked at what the 360 is launching with. How many titles again are you purchasing? Two? Three? The best of which are available on the PC's we already own.

You could buy a DS and 13 games for what you could buy the complete 360 + 2 games for ($399 + 60 + 60). You could buy BOTH a PsP and a DS and two games each for what you can buy the 360 for. WHY would you consider the handhelds though? First, the merits of the systems and their games, which I'll get to; second, if you've got X dollars to spend this holiday season and haven't already checked out what's happening in the handheld scene. . . well, you've got EVERY reason to let the 360 sit on the shelf until the Ps3 comes out, THEN decide between the two. Because ALL the hot action in gaming right now is happening on the handheld scene. . . innovation, originality, competition, hardcore gamers, casual gamers, BIG DOLLARS to chase, and the players are taking it seriously.

Xbox 360? Oblivion is a PC title. PG3 is just another rehash racing title. Amped 3? The sports games that are spiffy Ps2 ports? The Gears of War shoot'em up? Any gamer over the age of 12--and with more imagination than Beavis--is supposed to get a stiffy over this unimaginative dreck? Anyone with a sense of taste outside of the neurons in their tongue KNOWS that the 360 launch is CLICHE CLICHE CLICHE!!!!!!

One more segue to answer your question about why we would want a handheld before we get to your question "where are the great games"

Why handheld? Hey, if you haven't checked it out, I understand your skepticism. I dabbled in hand-held before, and found it dissapointing--not because of the graphics--but because the systems were too small for my hands and the screens too dim for my eyes to see comfortably. Some great games there, but the tech was so low that it inhibited my ability to interact well with some of these brilliant games. That no longer exists. Handheld gaming came of age this year with the PsP and the DS. A big part of me--you might be surprised--is a free market capitalist, and the competition in the handheld sector has pushed handhelds to heights far beyond any they've reached in the past.

The DS and PsP have some GREAT games, which we'll get to, and here's the plus to these GREAT GAMES being HAND-HELD: You can play them anywhere; while your spouse is watching the TV, on the bus, at wi-fi coffee houses and bars, while travelling, in bed, on the john, waiting on the girlfriend while she's trying on clothes (and if you get tail regularly, you know you join them on these journeys and tell them the outfits look GORGEOUS!) All of us, the older and busier we get, and the more jaded, but still don't want to give up gaming, handhelds offer gaming in the inbetween-places in our life, the little crevices, and free up those large blocks of time for real life.

The "GREAT GAMES"? The PsP is lagging, yes, but it's no slouch. I'm feeling typed out with a ways to go, so I'll let the more articulate and enthusiastic PsP owners help out here, like PoD and Glock, and hopefully Renz and Tashi, and hopefully not forgetting anyone, but then, I am out of sorts today. . . these guys will help me, I hope, give you a clue about what the Psp has to offer.

The DS: ok, where are the great games? Go back to my definition of "Great." I'm not just going to list some cut-and-paste names, I'll tell you why they are great, original, new, refreshing. . . like those goddamn 1970's Irish Spring commercials

Meteos: One of the best action puzzlers ever made, killer music, atmosphere, gameplay and replay out the wazoo; along with PsP's Lumines, one of the most enjoyable, replayable, addictive pick-up-and-play games since the original Tetris.

Mario 64 Not perfect, but the game that rewrote the rules on platforming works nicely on the DS, analog be damned. And those 30 unlockable mini-games are pick-up-and-play sweetness.

Feel the Magic Sega. . . Another game experience like nothing else; if Trebor's wife catches him tickling the asian sillouhette's coochie. .. he's going to be paying that mortgage Waco is so fixated on by himself!!!! Maybe Waco can help with the Mortgage, you know, being so concerned with it and all.

Kirby Canvas CurseA flat out reinvention of the 2-d platformer; this is MACRO-EVOLUTION, not micro-evolution, this is a new species; this made me feel ten years younger, remember why I even play videogames. Simple, addictive, HARD, quick to blow through the main game, LONG TIME to unlock everything and actually get tired of the gameplay. . . in fact, still not tired.

Advance Wars DS The ONLY handheld or console tactical strategy game to score + 90%, one of the great games of all time has just released a version with so many new modes and a better (imo) interface; to be able to play a game this deep, this rewarding, this addicting at any time, any place, in bed at 3am with headphones. . . MASKED GAMER. . . to get this kind of gameplay RIGHT NOW for HUNDREDS dollars less than a Ex-Box 1.5. . . Come ON!!!!!

Nintendogs OK, anyone who likes messing with complex AI, stuff that's cute, who likes to share game experiences with --YUCK--women!!!!. . . . TONS of unlockables, uncharted gaming territory, not even really a game. . . yeah, the Nintendogs guys like xbot Glock. . . WHAT FRUITS!!!!!!!!!!! (Of course, getting Glock to finally come out of the closet makes Nintendogs one of the best games ever released, if you ask me!)

Phoenix Wright--Coutroom Drama; great art direction, a revered japanese series finally coming to the US, voice recognition; new gaming frontier for adventurous westerners.

Trace Memories--Damn, I'm getting tired here; go check out screen shots and previews or maybe Glock can help us out on this one.

Castlevania DS--Again, just go to gametrailers.com and LOOK at this; either you like this game or you don't, but if you can't see how the two screens, stacked verticle, display HUGE bosses, and the coolness and authenticity via traditional cermonial magic of actually DRAWING the symbols that bind demonic fiends, well, mister KFC, welcome to the DS, world of Thai Food vs your 360 universe of Fried Chicken and Burgers.

Mario KartDS--wifi online makes this a must own. . . xbot LIVE RANTING, if you want to be consistent and credible, ALL long term gamers consider MK a classic; ONLINE lifts this greatest of FUN CARTOONY racing games to a whole new level.

Animal Crossing--One of the FEW ORIGINAL games of this gen online; handheld, anytime, anywhere. . . .hey, if twitchy redneck jarheads could appreciate this game, there'd probably be something wrong with it. WHY CAN'T I KILL ANYTHING? WHY CAN'T I KILL ANYTHING? WHY CAN'T I KILL ANYTHING????? TMG with AC. . . .I foresee a DS splotch on a bare, artless yellowish cig stained wall, anomyous amongst the sexually frustrated holes hand-punched through the thin apartment sheet rock.

Trauma Center--Playing doctor with a hot anime nurse, how gay!!!

Shogun Warriors--Real time strategy in 3D on both screens

Age of Empires--eh oh, Gadfly you hypocrite, praising a PC port. . . who cares if its handheld.

Metroid Pinball/bundled with new force-feedback cartridge Pinball is a classic game format for a reason; this one has the potential to bring it to handheld with style and atmosphere--the first hand-held with a LONG verticle screen; and damn it to hell if it dissapoints.

Lost in Blue--Survival RPG; just check it out. . . this game by itself boasts more originalty in concept, execution and interface than ANY Xbox1.5 "exclusive."

[b]Viewtiful Joe Double Trouble--Henshin a go go baby! Here's your action!

Mario and Luigi 2--RPG Hey, you may have some personal pathalogical hatred for Mario, but gamers with a sense of video game history know that some of the best of of the best game designer (nintendo) has always been held for Mario, and this is a sequel to a 90%+ rated comedic RPG.

And that's just FOR SURE stuff to be released this game shopping season. It doesn't include the long awaited return of the 2-d Mario Platfomer, any of the Square games like Mana and FF; then there's PC ports like Black and White Creatures, Zoo Keeper, or the third party games like the stuff from EA and Ubisoft. And again, this is only the DS; the PsP is still to be discussed.

REAL GAMING INNOVATION is happening on handhelds right now; next gen consoles from MS and Sony may have something to offer after they find their rhythm, but right now, getting all slobbery and jumping all over MS's crotch at full admission price is as about as bright as The Masked Gamer in a coal mine with a pack of wet matches.

[Renzatic Gear]

Yup, you're desperate. :P

I have 4 games for my PSP right now, and only 1 of them (Tony Hawk Underground 2) is a PS2 port. Wipeout Pure is all new, as is Mercury and Metal Gear Acid. Every one of those exclusive games, though hardly groundbreaking, is top notch quality fun...I can say that I've got my moneys worth out of it.

The DS might've had a slow start, but soon it's gonna be presenting games that couldn't be done elsewhere and give you something truly unique.

It's the only system besides the PC that can give you a true FPS experience, it's second only to the mouse and keyboard in my opinion. You don't have to concern yourself with dumbed down enemies that are placed in ways that are easily targeted by the clunky analog sticks, because of the stylus you now have true freedom of movement much like what you'd get out of a mouse.

The dual screen setup is definately being put to good use. Mario and Luigi 2 lets you control 2 sets of characters and interact between the screens. The stylus also lets you play RTS games much easier than you would with a bog standard control pad. Just look at any coming soon list for the DS and you'll see tons of potential. What the DS lacks in power it makes up with style and playability.

So really, besides Oblivion (which'll probably get it's ass kicked by Gothic III. HAHA MOCHAN! :P)...what is the 360 putting out there that hasn't been done before? Every game I've seen looks like what I've seen before but with a prettier coat of paint. So what are you seeing in it?

[Renzatic Gear]

Oh yeah! Lets not forget the amount of updates and downloads that are available for a few PSP games.

Take Xbox Live, a setup that's prime for free downloads and whatnot, but during the year or so it's been out MS has only once taken advantage of what it can really do. From what I remember all you've got to choose from is a single extra map for Splinter Cell and a few freebie games that you can play when you don't have anything else to do. And to add insult to injury MS took the Halo 2 map pack, an excellent chance to provide some real content on Live, threw it on a disc and charged 20 bucks for it instead of giving it out for free. That's just sad....sad and cheap.

But now you have Sony allowing developers to distribute free updates for piddly 'lil PSP games. I've already downloaded 5 track packs for Wipeout Pure, and I'm sure there are gonna be other games that'll provide the same content updates in the near future...all for the low low price of zero dollars and zero cents.

[T.Tashi]

Well... there's more to gaming than driving and shooting stuff in first person. Imagine that!
And it's easy to criticize a system that's been out 5 months. <img> And why compare a next-gen console you can't get for 3 more months to a 5 month old handheld? In fact, why compare them at all? Is the PS3 THAT intimidating? :D I recall someone posting "tide you over" games for Xbox early in its life until something really good came out for it. Hm.... who was that???

I had to stand in line at the DMV for 30 minutes. I had my psp in my pocket (try doing that with a console or a laptop for that matter) so I played a few innings of MLB which is a really fun game, (989's title smokes EA's baseball game) and I haven't liked baseball in years. And on my psp, the Royals don't suck. :P

If you want a great game go to gamerankings and check out the ratio percentages for Lumines. You'll see similar percentages for Wipeout Pure. Of course, you can't shoot anything or either game so I guess they suck.

And I've also watched all 16 episodes of Initial D 4th Stage on it weeks after they played in Japan without having to wait for English translated dvds to arrive in NA or having to sit at my pc. So to my own surprise I'm getting multiple uses out of it. I really hadn't planned on it.

I get 5-8 hours of play out of it consistently. That battery rumor just turned out to be flat out not true.

I do think Midnight Club is also a port which is amazing in itself. They cramped that whole console game into a portable version. For the first time, console games are available in an on the go portable version. Nonetheless, the psp deserves content unique to it, like the DS and not just console versions because it can do them.

I have to beat my friends off with a stick. A co-worker confiscates my psp as soon as I walk into work to play Hot Shots Golf and friends are always asking me to get a couple of innings in on MLB, which will extend to several games if I let it.

As far as fast games, Untold Legends took 6 months total time, from beginning design phase to launch. Now that's easy to develop for. Name one game that will take 6 months to develop on 360.

There's certainly some games on the DS I'd want to play (Lunar... :() but I have to draw the budget line somewhere.

[T.Tashi]

Here's a list of psp games, available and up and coming. From gamespot. Some titles like Gaghary are coming to NA with a different title, in this case, Legend of Heroes, and some with Japanese titles are iffy.

http://www.gamespot.com/b.gif


50 Cent: Bulletproof (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/50centbulletproof/index.html)

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a</td><td width="20">http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/shared/headers/header_dots.gif</td></tr></tbody> </table>
AC Formula Front (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sim/armoredcore/index.html)
Advent Shadow (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/adventshadow/index.html)
Adventure Player (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/adventure/adventureplayer/index.html)
AI Shogi (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/aishougi/index.html)
Ape Escape Academy (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/apeescapeacademy/index.html)
Ape Escape: On the Loose (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/apeescape/index.html)
The Apprentice (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/strategy/theapprentice/index.html)
Archer Maclean's Mercury (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/archermacleansmercury/index.html)
ATV Offroad Fury: Blazin' Trails (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/atvoffroadfury/index.html)
Axel Impact International (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/axelimpactinternational/index.html)

<table background="http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/shared/headers/headerbg.gif" bgcolor="#444444" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr valign="top"><td width="18">http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/shared/headers/legacy_header.gif</td><td class="gsheader10" width="99%">http://www.gamespot.com/b.gif
b</td><td width="20">http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/shared/headers/header_dots.gif</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Batman Begins (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/batmanbegins/index.html)
Battlefield 2: Modern Combat (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/battlefieldmoderncombat/index.html)
BBG (working title) (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/bbg/index.html)
Black & White Creatures (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/strategy/blackwhite/index.html)
Bleach: Heat the Soul (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/bleach/index.html)
BloodRayne (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/bloodrayne/index.html)
Bounty Hounds (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/bountyhounds/index.html)
Breath of Fire III (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/rpg/breathoffire3/index.html)
Burnout Legends (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/burnout/index.html)

<table background="http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/shared/headers/headerbg.gif" bgcolor="#444444" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr valign="top"><td width="18">http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/shared/headers/legacy_header.gif</td><td class="gsheader10" width="99%">http://www.gamespot.com/b.gif
c</td><td width="20">http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/shared/headers/header_dots.gif</td></tr></tbody> </table>
The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/thechroniclesofnarnia/index.html)
Coded Arms (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/explorationbasedhorrorfps/index.html)
Colin McRae Rally 2005 (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/colinmcraerally2005/index.html)
The Con (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/thecon/index.html)
Crash Dummy vs. the Evil D-Troit (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/crashdummyvstheevildtroit/index.html)
Crash Tag Team Racing (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/crashtagteamracing/index.html)
Crazy Racing: Kart Rider (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/crazyracingkartrider/index.html)
Crisis Core - Final Fantasy VII (working title) (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/rpg/crisiscorefinalfantasyvii/index.html)

<table background="http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/shared/headers/headerbg.gif" bgcolor="#444444" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr valign="top"><td width="18">http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/shared/headers/legacy_header.gif</td><td class="gsheader10" width="99%">http://www.gamespot.com/b.gif
d</td><td width="20">http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/shared/headers/header_dots.gif</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Darkstalkers Chronicle: The Chaos Tower (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/darkstalkers3/index.html)
Daxter (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/daxter/index.html)
Dead Aggressor (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/deadaggressor/index.html)
Dead to Rights: Reckoning (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/deadtorightsreckoning/index.html)
Death Jr. (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/deathjr/index.html)
Devil May Cry (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/devilmaycry/index.html)
Dokodemo Issho (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/dokodemoissho/index.html)
Dynasty Warriors (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/dynastywarriors/index.html)

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e</td><td width="20">http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/shared/headers/header_dots.gif</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Eiyuu Densetsu Gagharv Trilogy: Shiroki Majo (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/rpg/shirokimajo/index.html)

<table background="http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/shared/headers/headerbg.gif" bgcolor="#444444" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr valign="top"><td width="18">http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/shared/headers/legacy_header.gif</td><td class="gsheader10" width="99%">http://www.gamespot.com/b.gif
f</td><td width="20">http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/shared/headers/header_dots.gif</td></tr></tbody> </table>
F1 Grand Prix (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/f1grandprix/index.html)
FIFA 06 (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/fifa06/index.html)
FIFA Soccer (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/fifasoccer/index.html)
Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/rpg/finalfantasyviiadventchildren/index.html)
Fired Up (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/firedup/index.html)
Football Manager 2006 (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/footballmanager2006/index.html)
Frantix (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/frantix/index.html)
Free Running (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/freerunning/index.html)
Frogger Helmet Chaos (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/frogger2005/index.html)

<table background="http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/shared/headers/headerbg.gif" bgcolor="#444444" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr valign="top"><td width="18">http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/shared/headers/legacy_header.gif</td><td class="gsheader10" width="99%">http://www.gamespot.com/b.gif
g</td><td width="20">http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/shared/headers/header_dots.gif</td></tr></tbody> </table>
The Gaghary (working title) (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/rpg/thegaghary/index.html)
Generation of Chaos (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/strategy/generationofchaos/index.html)
Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/ghostintheshellstandalonecomplex/index.html)
Ghost Rider (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/ghostrider/index.html)
The Godfather (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/thegodfather/index.html)
Gran Turismo 4 Mobile (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/granturismo/index.html)
Grand Theft Auto: Liberty City Stories (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/grandtheftauto4workingtitle/index.html)
Gretzky NHL (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/gretzkynhl/index.html)
Gretzky NHL 2006 (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/gretzkynhl2006/index.html)
GripShift (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/gripshift/index.html)
Guilty Gear Judgment (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/guiltygearjudgement/index.html)
Gun (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/gun/index.html)
Gundam Battle Tactics (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/gundambattletactics/index.html)

<table background="http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/shared/headers/headerbg.gif" bgcolor="#444444" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr valign="top"><td width="18">http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/shared/headers/legacy_header.gif</td><td class="gsheader10" width="99%">http://www.gamespot.com/b.gif
h</td><td width="20">http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/shared/headers/header_dots.gif</td></tr></tbody> </table>
Hard Corps (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/hardcorps/index.html)
Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/harrypotterandthegobletoffire/index.html)
Hot Shots Golf: Open Tee (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/hotshotsgolf/index.html)

<table background="http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/shared/headers/headerbg.gif" bgcolor="#444444" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%"> <tbody><tr valign="top"><td width="18">http://i.i.com.com/cnet.g2/shared/headers/legacy_header.gif</td><td class="gsheader10" width="99%">http://www.gamespot.com/b.gif
i</td><td width="20">http://img.gamespot.com/gamespot/shared/headers/header_dots.gif</td></tr></tbody> </table>
The Incredibles: Rise of the Underminer (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/theincredibles2/index.html)
Infected (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/infected/index.html)
Intelligent License (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/intelligentlicense/index.html)

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King of Fighters: Maximum Impact (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/kofmaximum/index.html)
Kingdom of Paradise (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/rpg/tenchinomon/index.html)
Kollon (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/kollon/index.html)
Kotoba no Puzzle Mojipittan Daijiten (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/kotobanopuzzle/index.html)

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The Legend of Heroes (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/rpg/eiyuudensetsuivakaishizuku/index.html)
Lemmings (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/lemmings/index.html)
Lord of the Rings: Tactics (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/strategy/lordoftheringstactics/index.html)
Lumines (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/lumines/index.html)

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Madden NFL 06 (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/maddennfl2006/index.html)
Mahjong Fight Club (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/mahjongkakutouclub/index.html)
Marvel Nemesis: Rise of the Imperfects (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/marvelvsea/index.html)
MediEvil Resurrection (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/adventure/medievil/index.html)
Mega Man Legends (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/adventure/megamanlegends/index.html)
Metal Gear Acid (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/strategy/metalgearsolid/index.html)
Metal Gear Acid 2 (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/strategy/metalgearacid2/index.html)
Metal Shell (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/metalshell/index.html)
Midnight Club 3: DUB Edition (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/midnightclub3dubedition/index.html)
Midway Arcade Treasures: Extended Play (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/midwayarcadetreasures/index.html)
MLB (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/mlb/index.html)
Mobile Train Simulator + Densha de GO! Tokyo Kyuukou Hen (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sim/mobiletrainsimulatordenshadegotokyokyuukouhen/index.html)
Monster Hunter Portable (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/rpg/monsterhunterpspworkingtitle/index.html)
Mortal Kombat: Deception Unchained (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/mortalkombatdeception/index.html)
MVP Baseball (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/mvpbaseball/index.html)
MX (working title) (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/mx/index.html)

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Namco Museum (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/namcomuseum/index.html)
Namco Museum Battle Collection (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/namcomuseumbattlecollection/index.html)
NBA (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/nbashootout2005/index.html)
NBA 06 (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/nba06/index.html)
NBA Ballers (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/nbaballers/index.html)
NBA Live 06 (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/nbalive2006/index.html)
NBA Street Showdown (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/nbastreet/index.html)
Need for Speed Most Wanted (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/needforspeedmostwanted/index.html)
Need for Speed Underground Rivals (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/needforspeedunderground/index.html)
Neopets Petpet Adventure: The Wand of Wishing (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/adventure/neopets/index.html)
NFL Street 2 Unleashed (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/nflstreet2/index.html)
NHL FaceOff 2005 (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/nhlfaceoff2005/index.html)

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Pac-Man World 3 (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/pacmanworld3/index.html)
Payout Poker and Casino (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/payoutpokerandcasino/index.html)
Peter Jackson's King Kong (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/kingkong/index.html)
Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/piratesofthecaribbeandeadmanschest/index.html)
PoPoLoCrois (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/rpg/popolocrois/index.html)
Prince of Persia 3 (working title) (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/princeofpersiawarriorwithin/index.html)
Project Interceptor (working title) (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sim/projectinterceptor/index.html)
Project S (working title) (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/projects/index.html)
PSP Hardware (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/psphardware/index.html)
PSP Racing (working title) (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/pspracing/index.html)
Pursuit Force (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/pursuitforce/index.html)
Puyo Pop Fever (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/puyopopfever/index.html)
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Red Line (working title) (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/redline/index.html)
Rengoku: Tower of Purgatory (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/rengokuthetowerofpurgatory/index.html)
Ridge Racer (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/ridgeracer/index.html)
Romance of the Three Kingdoms V (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/strategy/romanceofthethreekingdoms/index.html)

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Sengoku Cannon (working title) (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/sengokucannon/index.html)
Shutokou Battle: Zone of Control (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/tokyohighwaybattle/index.html)
The Sims 2 (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/strategy/thesims2/index.html)
Smart Bomb (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/smartbomb/index.html)
SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs Fireteam Bravo (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/socomusnavysealsfireteambravo/index.html)
Sonic (working title) (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/sonicworkingtitle/index.html)
Space Invaders: Galaxy Beat (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/spaceinvadersgalaxybeat/index.html)
Spider-Man 2 (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/spiderman/index.html)
Spinout (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/spinout/index.html)
Splinter Cell (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/splintercellpsp/index.html)
SSX on Tour (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/ssx4/index.html)
Stacked with Daniel Negreanu (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/stacked/index.html)
Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/starwarsepisodeiii/index.html)
Star Wars: Battlefront II (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/starwarsbattlefront2/index.html)
Sticky Balls (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/stickyballs/index.html)
Street Fighter Alpha 3 Upper (working title) (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/streetfighteralpha3/index.html)
Syphon Filter: Logan's Shadow (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/syphonfilter/index.html)

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Taiko no Tatsujin (working title) (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/taikonotatsujin/index.html)
Tales of Eternia (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/rpg/talesofeternia/index.html)
Talkman (working title) (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/talkman/index.html)
Tenchu: Shinobi Taizen (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/tenchu/index.html)
Tenken Chimon (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/tennokajichinomo/index.html)
Tiger Woods PGA Tour (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/tigerwoodspgatour/index.html)
Tiger Woods PGA Tour 06 (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/tigerwoodspgatour2006/index.html)
TOCA Race Driver 2: The Ultimate Racing Simulator (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/racedriver2/index.html)
Tokobot (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/karakuri/index.html)
Tomb Raider: Legend (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/tombraidervii/index.html)
Tony Hawk's Underground 2 Remix (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/tonyhawksproskater/index.html)
Twisted Metal: Head-On (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/twistedmetal/index.html)

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Untold Legends II (working title) (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/rpg/untoldlegends2/index.html)
Untold Legends: Brotherhood of the Blade (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/rpg/untoldlegendsbrotherhood/index.html)

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Viewtiful Joe: Red Hot Rumble (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/viewtifuljoe/index.html)
Virtua Tennis: World Tour (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/virtuatennis/index.html)
Vulcanus Online (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/vulcanusonline/index.html)

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Wipeout Pure (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/wipeout/index.html)
World Poker Tour 2K6 (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/worldpokertour2k6/index.html)
World Series of Poker (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/worldseriesofpoker/index.html)
World Snooker Championship 2005 (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/worldchampionshipsnooker2005/index.html)
World Soccer Winning Eleven 9 (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/worldsoccerwinningeleven/index.html)
World Tour Soccer (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/sports/worldtoursoccer/index.html)
Worms (working title) (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/strategy/worms/index.html)
WRC (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/driving/wrc/index.html)
WWE SmackDown! vs. RAW 2006 (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/wwesmackdownvsraw2006/index.html)

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X-Men Legends II: Rise of Apocalypse (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/rpg/xmenlegendsiiriseofapocalypse/index.html)
Xyanide (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/xyanide/index.html)

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Yamasa Digi Portable (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/puzzle/yamasadigiportable/index.html)
Ys: The Ark of Napishtim (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/rpg/ysvithearkofnapishtim/index.html)

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Zero Hour (http://www.gamespot.com/psp/action/zerohour/index.html)

[Gadfly2317]

TMG. . .good thread you started here.

I wanted to reiterate the online aspects of these systems as an answer to your question "why do you want a PsP or DS." The PsP has the edge in online games, but both systems will have some killer online titles. As an Xbot who has extolled the virtures of online gaming, I'm sure this is something you'd appreciate; plus the online is free. WiFi is where it's at, too, not being tied down to your freaking couch.

People are busy, not home that much. More and more workplaces have wi-fi, many college campuses are one big wi-fi hotspot, coffee shops all over the place are offering free wi-fi; more and more homes are wi-fi. These two handhelds are not only offering a better diversity of types of games than Xbox, they are offering online, and you can hop online, free, without wires, with a system you can carry around in your pocket.

XBox 1.5, another big plastic bucket of PC parts, wired to your wall with a SUBSCRIPTION fee for online. . . this is already an outdated lame paradigm. That is SO last gen. While some may question your comparing Xbox 1.5 with the handhelds, you brought it up, and the PsP and/or DS is definitely the more cool, more fun, more cutting edge and better value purchase this holiday vs Xbox 1.5.

[Darwin]

And to add insult to injury MS took the Halo 2 map pack, an excellent chance to provide some real content on Live, threw it on a disc and charged 20 bucks for it instead of giving it out for free. That's just sad....sad and cheap.

I downloaded my Halo 2 maps for free through Live. Those of us with Live didn't have to pay 20 bucks. Don't know about you.

I have never once payed for premium content for Live. Yet, I have downloaded lots of free stuff for many different games.

[trebor]

Feel the Magic Sega. . . Another game experience like nothing else; if Trebor's wife catches him tickling the asian sillouhette's coochie. .. he's going to be paying that mortgage Waco is so fixated on by himself!!!! Maybe Waco can help with the Mortgage, you know, being so concerned with it and all.

Err... :confused:

Ok, well, anyways, why would we want to have a DS or PSP, TMG asks?

I don't own a PSP yet, but I could easily say stuff like MP3 compatiblity, UMD videos, state-of-the-art graphics (for a handheld), WiFi, and a healthy amount of developer interest to defend that system.

The DS...well, let me say...

Backwards compatibility - you know that "useless" feature you don't put much weight into in terms of the 360? I've got a good sized collection of GBA titles that I'm more then happy to play on the DS. In fact, you can have a DS and a GBA cartridge plugged in at the same time - so even if you just grab your DS and nothing else when going out, you'll have choices of what to play.

Touch screen - it ISN'T a gimmick. Quite frankly, I'm excited for the titles that only use the stylus, and no D-pad or buttons at all. If you can't see the inherent benefits from the touch screen, then no amount of explaining will help, because you simply just don't get it.

WiFi Online - a wireless online network that is FREE to use. For someone who puts so much weight into Xbox LIVE, I would think that this would be of high interest to you, TMG. Think about it - wouldn't Xbox LIVE be that much better if it was free to use? You know it would be, except that it's Nintendo that's doing it.

Developer support - Nintendo + Handhelds = 3rd Party Support. Say what you will about support for the Cube (on second thought...don't), but 3rd parties are coming out strong for the DS.

Solid design - Nintendo knows how to build handheld devices. The DS is built like a tank, has a long lasting rechargable battery, and is at an affordable price (Waco can bite me).

I'm not even going to mention specific titles, because Gadfly did an excellent job of doing that in an earlier post (ahem *cough* tickling asian coochie?)

[Gadfly2317]

I'm not even going to mention specific titles, because Gadfly did an excellent job of doing that in an earlier post (ahem *cough* tickling asian coochie?)

Well you CAN though! Haven't you tried touching the sillouhette girl who comes on between mini-games? Tickle her feet? And elsewhere. . .

Hey don't look at me like Uncle Pervy here, I didn't program this thing, I was just playing it.

Touching is Good!!! :D

[The Prince of Darkness]

There are more valid reasons to own a 360 than a DS or PSP. And the 360 will have better games available faster than the PSP or DS. Let's face it folks, where are the great games for these systems? Metroid Prime Hunters has been delayed yet again, and Nintendo completely pulled bait and switches, all they did was market Metroid on DS, even included a demo, and when is the game coming? Maybe before the PS3? And if you like action games, where are they at on the DS? I mean, Nintendogs, get that sh*t outta here.

And the PSP, come on, what more can I say. Is there even 1 great game on the system? Seriously? It launched with a bunch of PS2 rejects like Ridge Racer, and all Sony is doing is trying to recreate their whole PS2 library on the PSP, instead of coming up with new content. And the bundle prices? You know I really didn't have much to say about suckas forkin over money for the PSP or DS. I never really posted anything during their respective launches, simply because i'm not into handhelds. But now given all the pure hipocrisy and BS floated around about 360. This has to be said. You can't say anything about the 360 and why you want it, if you are sitting at home with a PSP. And you better not say anything if you have both a PSP and a DS, those two represent complete wastes of hardware, and Nintendo has the nerve to be developing another handheld. This is just ridiculous.

What ever you want to say about the 360, make no mistake it will have WAY more great games at launch and during the launch window than the PSP and DS combined.

Now, i'm going to answer Gadfly's ? in his post and not here. This is a separate question, this isn't even launch, and why the HELL would anyone want a PSP or DS? Games? HELL NAW.

I would say, at this point, you may be right about the PSP. It is getting harder and harder to defend it based on the game selection and high price tag. However, the thing is still the same price as a 40 gig Ipod, and it plays games. I guess that makes it worthwhile just for the promise of good games in the future.

The DS is easy to defend for me for two reasons: these 4 games---Kirby, Meteos, Nintendogs, and Advance Wars and the $130 price tag. I don't care if i do not buy another game for my DS it will still be worth it because those games are just that good. I cannot remember the last time that I picked up 4 games that are this good in such a short period of time.

[theWacoKid]

Oh yeah! Lets not forget the amount of updates and downloads that are available for a few PSP games.

Take Xbox Live, a setup that's prime for free downloads and whatnot, but during the year or so it's been out MS has only once taken advantage of what it can really do. From what I remember all you've got to choose from is a single extra map for Splinter Cell and a few freebie games that you can play when you don't have anything else to do. And to add insult to injury MS took the Halo 2 map pack, an excellent chance to provide some real content on Live, threw it on a disc and charged 20 bucks for it instead of giving it out for free. That's just sad....sad and cheap.

But now you have Sony allowing developers to distribute free updates for piddly 'lil PSP games. I've already downloaded 5 track packs for Wipeout Pure, and I'm sure there are gonna be other games that'll provide the same content updates in the near future...all for the low low price of zero dollars and zero cents.


But not all of Harrison's words were as comforting. In fact, many gamers were made downright nervous by the executive's comments on his company's portable, the PSP. He revealed that, having used the free downloads of Wipeout Pure as a test case, Sony would be moving to a pay-per-download model for extra content next year. "It's an experiment which has turned out to be a good experiment," he told UK-based Edge magazine.


Um, you were saying.... as darwin has posted you're totally 100% wrong on the halo 2 map pack, which, btw, everyone following xbox live knew would be offered free on live after a set period. And your total ignorance on the amount of downloadable content on xbox live is astonishing to say, the least. And yes, do tell me about all those psp updates and downloads. Aside from wipeout, what? Firmware updates designed to foil hackers with home brew apps.

As for wipeout pure being "all new", yeah, right. 4 of the tracks are taken from the original wipeout, and we've never seen this gameplay before, have we sports fans. Any way you cut it, rehash city, its still wipeout with some different tracks and a new feature here and there. Calling it "all new" is one hell of a feat of imagination.

[Renzatic Gear]

Um, you were saying.... as darwin has posted you're totally 100% wrong on the halo 2 map pack, which, btw, everyone following xbox live knew would be offered free on live after a set period. And your total ignorance on the amount of downloadable content on xbox live is astonishing to say, the least. And yes, do tell me about all those psp updates and downloads. Aside from wipeout, what? Firmware updates designed to foil hackers with home brew apps. I stand corrected.


As for wipeout pure being "all new", yeah, right. 4 of the tracks are taken from the original wipeout, and we've never seen this gameplay before, have we sports fans. Any way you cut it, rehash city, its still wipeout with some different tracks and a new feature here and there. Calling it "all new" is one hell of a feat of imagination. Most racing game sequels are rehashes, you'll usually only find a handful of things that have been tweaked or changed. If Psygnosis were to change the gameplay completely it'd disappoint fans of the series...they'd be better off making another game entirely.

Course I can't complain about the 4 classics tracks that are in the game, it's not like they've been ripped directly from the previous games and called brand new. Graphically they're totally different, only the layout is the same...and they barely make up 1/3rd of the available tracks.

I don't think that Wipeout Pure is a truly unique experience, it's good for what it is...a faithful conversion of WO on a portable system, and that works for me. The reason why I'm downing the same thing on the 360 is because it's capable of so much more, yet MS is just sitting there churning out the same tired crap we've all played a thousand times before. If I really wanted to push my point here you could say that WO is a better game in general because there aren't many others like it, F-Zero is the only game that comes close but even it's not exactly the same. Project Gotham 3 on the other hand is pretty much like every other racer that's out right now. Why do we need a 3rd one when something far more ambitious could be taking it's place?

As of right now I only see 2 games that are really worth it, Oblivion and Gears of War. We already know that Oblivion is coming for the PC along with the TES Construction Set (which'll extend the life of the game by years like it has with Morrowind), and Gears of War is a pretty likely candidate for a port since Epic has such a strong PC following. I don't really see a point in getting a 360 right now, not when all it's best titles are showing up elsewhere in better form.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Sorry I haven't had time to respond to your responses. But, here is my response. BULLCHIPS. BULLCHIPS Gadfly, Tashi, Renzatic, you guys have all fell down and bumped your head. Some of the comments you guys made are so completely out of whack and far from reality, thanks Darwin and Waco and POD for setting them straight.

Wipeout is a new game? Come on Renzatic? There is no content on LIVE to download aside from 1 Splinter Cell map. You see these kinds of responses don't even dignify a reply, because you can't debate with people who say things that are so completely false. I won't even respond to that, why don't you go do your homework and correct yourself on this issue. And Gadfly, Gadfly, Gadfly, the DS is better online than XBOX LIVE?

The hipocrisy and double standards are legendary on this site. This is exactly what I said about PS3. Nothing is okay until Sony or Nintendo say it is okay. High definition in videogames was considered a wasteful feature, now Sony is doing it and it is the greatest thing on earth. Nevermind the fact that most people don't even know what a HDMI cable is and won't even have 1 set with an HDMI port, never mind that most sets 99% of them won't even support 1080P. Now, I am grateful Sony is doing high defintion, but give credit where credit is due, MS started this. Now online gaming. You guys need to pick a position, it is either a good thing or not. In every post concerning LIVE the responses range from LIVE sucks to online gaming isn't important. Now, with Gadfly, since Nintendo is jumping on the wagon, it is the greatest thing around. DS comes out and barely has any games, and yet it is better than LIVE which has years worth of online games.

You want more hipocrisy and double standards, this is my favorite one. FPS absolutely suck and are the bane of gaming. And you guys blame MS for FPS, despite the fact they started on PCs, which you guys always love to fall back on. Yet, whenever a "good" FPS comes to Nintendo or Sony, it is the greatest FPS of ALL TIIIIIIIIIIME! First we had Red Faction on PS2, then Killzone, now Sony lapdogs are gonna be talking about Killzone 2 from now until the end of time. And here we have Gadfly, who calls you names if you like shooters, yet is ready to tell you how awesome the DS' Metroid game is gonna be, why? Because it is not a FP-A, it is a FP-S. Then, the best game on the DS is a tactical strategy game? Hmmm, sounds like a PC to me, I can play better types of those games on the PC you know!

You know what this is all about. This is all about your collective hatred for MS. Tashi lists every freakin game that has been announced, as if 75% of those games are out now. And as if even 2% of them will be great games? How many 90% and higher games are available today for the DS and PSP, I don't even know yet i'll guess it is less than 5 combined. And don't you just love the way Gadfly defines "what is great." Basically Gadfly nothing is great unless you say so, right? That is what this is all about. Only you truly know the secret ingredients to a great game. Only you are cultured enough and can truly understand how to judge greatness. You've set yourself up as some sort of gaming authority, put yourself on some high pedestal, and look down your nose at the gaming world. But guess what? You don't exist to the gaming world Gadfly. You and your standards, which can't even be defined. The best I can tell, nothing is great unless it comes from Nintendo, and now you've completely jumped onboard the Sony ship in the last 6 months to a year. And the PS3 is just automatically great.

The whole point of this thread is to show and contrast hypocrisy. You guys all bought into the DS and PSP at launch, when both systems had nothing, and arguably still have very little. You guys fell hook line and sinker for PSP movies, bundles, etc. You guys bought re-hashes on both systems cause that is all that was there. Now of course and hopefully the systems will eventually have more to play. But the XBOX 360 is only going to cost about $50 more than a PSP bundle, have new original games at launch, and by the end of the launch window, it may have more 90% rated games than the PSP and DS combined. It will have better online games, yes than the DS.

You guys want to criticize PGR3 and hail wipeout? You guys want to say Oblivion is a PC title. Hmm in another post you guys where hoping Oblivion came to the PS3, hmmm. Then you guys state as fact, that nothing new will be coming to 360. First let me say, Oblivion is 100% new, all new code, it isn't an incremental change, or an update to Morrowind. And Perfect Dark 0, sure is based on an old game, but again is completely different code. And nobody knows any of the features of these games. But, yes, technically, you are correct, these aren't new projects. But, just because we don't know what the new projects are, is no cause to say there won't be new projects. Hey there are many new projects announced, and it really doesn't matter when people are already bashing Gears of War( its just another dumb shooter). What about Condemned? What about Kameo? What about these J-RPGs? This isn't about games, this is about some deep seeded sickness you guys have. Everything XBOX is crap. Well, let me scrap together $500 so I can go buy a DS and PSP, then I can play Wipe-out and Nintendogs. Hmm maybe not on second thought. I think i'll stick with the craptastic Jade Empire, Dark Watch, Motogp3, and Forza. I mean I just don't know why I make myself suffer like this.

[Gadfly2317]

Wow. . .touched a nerve there, eh, TMG? Not sure where to respond, other than to say. . .

1.) I have nothing against FPS's, and own and play several. I admit I enjoy digging on gamers with limited taste who don't like anything outside of genres where you kill people or drive cars--in another words, the primary genres that are succesful on xbox.

2.) I don't consider myself an elitist authority on what's great, though I do believe I can tell the difference between macro-innovation and micro-innovation and just plain rehashes; I'm just like you and everyone else around here, promoting what I like and what directions I'd like to see the industry go. So I promote innovation, creativity, newness and even something like Nintendogs and Electroplankton which challenge the very notion of what interactive electronic gaming can be. I love gaming and want to see it evolve rather than just repeat itself. That's all. My head is not up Nintendo's ass; they just happen to be the company that's been at the forefront of championing and implementing the kinds of things this industry needs.

Sorry if you take the occasional fun-and-games smack talk personally. This competitive debating. . .it's all just fun and games. . ..please quit acting like a sore loser.

[theWacoKid]

TMG, you started this thread to take potshots at the psp and ds, so why are you suprised by the responses. I think its supremely silly to compare a next gen console to a pair of handhelds.

In the case of the DS, yeah, I bought it for games, it has no other purpose or function. I have over 10 DS and GBA games combined, I'm satisfied with the purchase.

The psp is another story. Jack of all trades, master of none is the way I'd describe the psp. The games have sadly not evolved, the prices have not come down. The software has ground to a virtual halt and what's shown up has been full of problems. Long load times for MC3 and for Death Jr. a spastic camera system aggrravating the already prominent motion blur problem the psp suffers from. Umd movies are of mediocre quality but retail at premium levels. The psp is too bulky to be function effectively as an mp3 player, ripping movies from dvd to mem stick is a time consuming affair with variable results. Its the worst internet browsing device I've ever laid hands on. I love ridge racer and lumines but you can only play the same game for so long. So, I sent my psp packing when a friend offered me some decent coin. This system is not ready for prime time. The sluggish pixel response time of the lcd has given me too many headaches to continue with the system and the ridiculously long loads are an insult. Game prices are simply too high. I can buy Hot Shots Golf Fore for half the price of Hot Shots Golf Open Tee and HGS4 is the far better version.

I consider the psp a work in progress, a beta version of a handheld that may in time evolve to the point of being worth it. But, that time is not now, and I'm not waiting in vain for problems to be corrected or quality software at reasonable prices to show up. See ya, bye, gave it a shot, didn't work out. The money from my psp and games have been split up between an xbox 360 pre-order and DS games.

The DS has suprised me. The touch screen is very relaxing. No managing multiple button configurations and analog sticks. Just a simple, elegant interface that is creating its own particular genre of games. Its a handheld, designed for short bouts of gaming. Its not intended to replace an immersive next gen game with cutting edge high def visuals and surround sound. The DS is there for a smile and it serves its purpose extremely well. Consider me converted to the DS. A far better system than I thought it would be. And economical to boot with a lower price tag and less expensive software.

[Renzatic Gear]

..the already prominent motion blur problem the psp suffers from.
Do wuh? Motion blur was a fairly noticable problem for the previous generation handhelds, but on the DS and PSP it's practically nonexistant.

[theWacoKid]

Do wuh? Motion blur was a fairly noticable problem for the previous generation handhelds, but on the DS and PSP it's practically nonexistant.

You can see it easily with lumines and on games like NBA street and fifa soccer its pretty brutal. I know I'm not the only one because EGM slammed Death Jr, because of it. Its especially bad when ever a game scrolls in a horizontal direction.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Wow. . .touched a nerve there, eh, TMG? Not sure where to respond, other than to say. . .

1.) I have nothing against FPS's, and own and play several. I admit I enjoy digging on gamers with limited taste who don't like anything outside of genres where you kill people or drive cars--in another words, the primary genres that are succesful on xbox.

2.) I don't consider myself an elitist authority on what's great, though I do believe I can tell the difference between macro-innovation and micro-innovation and just plain rehashes; I'm just like you and everyone else around here, promoting what I like and what directions I'd like to see the industry go. So I promote innovation, creativity, newness and even something like Nintendogs and Electroplankton which challenge the very notion of what interactive electronic gaming can be. I love gaming and want to see it evolve rather than just repeat itself. That's all. My head is not up Nintendo's ass; they just happen to be the company that's been at the forefront of championing and implementing the kinds of things this industry needs.

Sorry if you take the occasional fun-and-games smack talk personally. This competitive debating. . .it's all just fun and games. . ..please quit acting like a sore loser.

Cause I said all of your posts where Bullsh*t. I was away and didn't have time to respond to them all individually, so after reading them all, i summed them up and responded in one big post, and called them what they were Bullsh*t. All I intended to do was highlight the pure hipocrisy on this board by showing how you guys fell hook line and sinker at launch for two platforms that had nothing to play and still basically have nothing to play, meanwhile you want to "act" like people need a better reason to buy a 360. Well, I gave you better reasons. And you can compare a console to a handheld when the handheld bundle cost more than the console, I mean, WTF a PSP bundle for over $450 and a XBOX 360 bundle for $399, and you want to complain.

Basically you cried about the XBOX having nothing to play, you got tired of waiting on Conker and Jade Empire and you had nothing to play on your DS. The PSP came along and you got an itch in your pants, so you end hocking your XBOX to get a PSP, and wound up with PS2 rehashed crap, like Ridge Racer. Now, you want to tell people the 360 is a bad deal. Then when someone turns the spotlight on your behavior, you use every excuse in the book to justify your own actions, "ohhhh the platforms turned around, a good game is hard to define, etc etc etc." Shadddup, its all BS. You have a ingrown hair up your butt over Microsoft, and this has nothing to do with games. If you trade in that PSP, that will be the smartest move you can make. Then you can get a 360 and also get a PS3 when it launches.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

TMG, you started this thread to take potshots at the psp and ds, so why are you suprised by the responses. I think its supremely silly to compare a next gen console to a pair of handhelds.

In the case of the DS, yeah, I bought it for games, it has no other purpose or function. I have over 10 DS and GBA games combined, I'm satisfied with the purchase.

The psp is another story. Jack of all trades, master of none is the way I'd describe the psp. The games have sadly not evolved, the prices have not come down. The software has ground to a virtual halt and what's shown up has been full of problems. Long load times for MC3 and for Death Jr. a spastic camera system aggrravating the already prominent motion blur problem the psp suffers from. Umd movies are of mediocre quality but retail at premium levels. The psp is too bulky to be function effectively as an mp3 player, ripping movies from dvd to mem stick is a time consuming affair with variable results. Its the worst internet browsing device I've ever laid hands on. I love ridge racer and lumines but you can only play the same game for so long. So, I sent my psp packing when a friend offered me some decent coin. This system is not ready for prime time. The sluggish pixel response time of the lcd has given me too many headaches to continue with the system and the ridiculously long loads are an insult. Game prices are simply too high. I can buy Hot Shots Golf Fore for half the price of Hot Shots Golf Open Tee and HGS4 is the far better version.

I consider the psp a work in progress, a beta version of a handheld that may in time evolve to the point of being worth it. But, that time is not now, and I'm not waiting in vain for problems to be corrected or quality software at reasonable prices to show up. See ya, bye, gave it a shot, didn't work out. The money from my psp and games have been split up between an xbox 360 pre-order and DS games.

The DS has suprised me. The touch screen is very relaxing. No managing multiple button configurations and analog sticks. Just a simple, elegant interface that is creating its own particular genre of games. Its a handheld, designed for short bouts of gaming. Its not intended to replace an immersive next gen game with cutting edge high def visuals and surround sound. The DS is there for a smile and it serves its purpose extremely well. Consider me converted to the DS. A far better system than I thought it would be. And economical to boot with a lower price tag and less expensive software.

I just summed up all of their post, that's all. Bullsh*t. I didn't feel like responding to each one, simply cause there was no need to. When guys start saying Wipeout is new and awesome, and DS is better than LIVE, that there was only 1 SC map to download off LIVE, and its hard to define a good game, and I say what games are good, etc etc etc, its just BS and there is nothing to debate. You can't debate fantasy. I'm not whining, I want to debate, but how can you debate this nonsense. You can compare a console to handhelds in this regard. They both play games, and at launch and a close time after launch was there anything worth playing? The answer in the case of the DS and PSP was no. And despite the fact that the PSP is still floundering and bundles costed more than 360 bundles, guys here still want to say the 360 is a rip-off. Now, they started a post saying what is there to play on 360 at launch and saying there won't be any new games. First they are wrong on both accounts and second even if it was true why do you need great games at launch? I mean if Sony and Nintendo don't need great games at launch, why does 360? Hmmm is it cause its from MICROSOFT. Sure the DS may be turning the corner and i'm sure the PSP will eventually turn the corner, but why were they good deals at launch, and 360 isn't? Even though it won't have to turn any corners. It will hit the ground with good games, that's all i'm trying to get from them.

[T.Tashi]

Cause I said all of your posts where Bullsh*t. I was away and didn't have time to respond to them all individually, so after reading them all, i summed them up and responded in one big post, and called them what they were Bullsh*t. All I intended to do was highlight the pure hipocrisy on this board by showing how you guys fell hook line and sinker at launch for two platforms that had nothing to play and still basically have nothing to play, meanwhile you want to "act" like people need a better reason to buy a 360. Well, I gave you better reasons. And you can compare a console to a handheld when the handheld bundle cost more than the console, I mean, WTF a PSP bundle for over $450 and a XBOX 360 bundle for $399, and you want to complain.

Basically you cried about the XBOX having nothing to play, you got tired of waiting on Conker and Jade Empire and you had nothing to play on your DS. The PSP came along and you got an itch in your pants, so you end hocking your XBOX to get a PSP, and wound up with PS2 rehashed crap, like Ridge Racer. Now, you want to tell people the 360 is a bad deal. Then when someone turns the spotlight on your behavior, you use every excuse in the book to justify your own actions, "ohhhh the platforms turned around, a good game is hard to define, etc etc etc." Shadddup, its all BS. You have a ingrown hair up your butt over Microsoft, and this has nothing to do with games. If you trade in that PSP, that will be the smartest move you can make. Then you can get a 360 and also get a PS3 when it launches.
Exactly what games to you get for the 360 $399 bundle? The most expensive psp bundle on ebgames ($379) comes with 3 games.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Exactly what games to you get for the 360 $399 bundle? The most expensive psp bundle on ebgames ($379) comes with 3 games.


Yeah 3 games, but are they good games. That is the problem with you Sony guys, you value quantity over quality.

The Ebgames bundle may be 379 now, but it was like $450 when PSP launched and had horrible games. If that is value to you or if that is worth buying at launch, by all means do so. But if you do, I don't see how you can logically say the 360 bundle at $399 is a rip-off. You are talking about hardware more powerful than a PC, and peripherals that are much more valuable than a soft-case and UMD sampler disc. You are talking about hard peripherals which will last for years, the life of the console. Not Ridge Racer and Need For Speed, valueless crappy ports of games that were horrible on the PS2 in the first place. That's a suckers bundle, in my opinion, just buy the PSP and a real game. But the 360 bundle has real value and utility that will last the life of the console.

[Gadfly2317]

I just summed up all of their post, that's all. Bullsh*t. I didn't feel like responding to each one, simply cause there was no need to.
You didn't respond to ANY actual point in any post because you are weak-assed moron and a sloppy debater who got his ass handed to him.

, and its hard to define a good game, How about some reading comprehension, chimp? In debate you define your terms; you threw out the term "great games" and I set out to clarify what I mean by great games. You might return the favor so we might have a clue what the hell you are gibbering on about.

I mean if Sony and Nintendo don't need great games at launch, why does 360? Hmmm is it cause its from MICROSOFT. Sure the DS may be turning the corner and i'm sure the PSP will eventually turn the corner, but why were they good deals at launch, and 360 isn't? Even though it won't have to turn any corners. It will hit the ground with good games, that's all i'm trying to get from them. You simply have no idea what you are talking about. PsP had numerous games at launch, very good games. But apparently we were talking past each other. I was talking about PsP and/or DS vs laying out top dollar for a 360 THIS holiday, and what a lousy bunch of rehashed overpriced genre-crap the 360 line-up mostly consists of. This holiday, the handhelds offer better value and more original gaming than the 360. Again, you can refer to my first post where I discuss that in detail--details you refuse to respond to.

You are right about one thing, the DS was a lousy buy at launch, just like 360 is; I bought one because it was backward compatible and I wanted to play GBA games--I didn't have an SP because it was too small and uncomfortable, just an unlit GBA. . .but if you'll recall, I posted that for most gamers who already had an SP, it was probably smart to wait until the good titles and a price drop. Just like the 360; which you can't even justify with backwards compatiblity.

Your posted topic "Why do you want a DS or PsP? Games?" was answered with a concrete discussion of the actual games, their merits, their originality, their quality. You respond with vague gibberish and saying its all just BS fantasy's that you can't debate. Maybe go back down and reread what everyone said. You received responses from people who actually play games; if you'd pull your head of your X-box, you might realize there is a whole world of gaming that you obviously know NOTHING about.

[theWacoKid]

I just summed up all of their post, that's all. Bullsh*t. I didn't feel like responding to each one, simply cause there was no need to. When guys start saying Wipeout is new and awesome, and DS is better than LIVE, that there was only 1 SC map to download off LIVE, and its hard to define a good game, and I say what games are good, etc etc etc, its just BS and there is nothing to debate. You can't debate fantasy. I'm not whining, I want to debate, but how can you debate this nonsense. You can compare a console to handhelds in this regard. They both play games, and at launch and a close time after launch was there anything worth playing? The answer in the case of the DS and PSP was no. And despite the fact that the PSP is still floundering and bundles costed more than 360 bundles, guys here still want to say the 360 is a rip-off. Now, they started a post saying what is there to play on 360 at launch and saying there won't be any new games. First they are wrong on both accounts and second even if it was true why do you need great games at launch? I mean if Sony and Nintendo don't need great games at launch, why does 360? Hmmm is it cause its from MICROSOFT. Sure the DS may be turning the corner and i'm sure the PSP will eventually turn the corner, but why were they good deals at launch, and 360 isn't? Even though it won't have to turn any corners. It will hit the ground with good games, that's all i'm trying to get from them.

You need to calm down. There were no $450 bundles that came from sony. The value bundle is $250 versus the premum bundle from MS at $400. Bundling with the psp wouldnt have worked anyway, too many units sitting unsold on store shelves. About the only people paying for bundles with the psp were guys ordering online and that was their choice.

As for the 360, there won't be a wide diversity of games in the launch window, but that's to be expected. But, getting a full fledged quality rpg like Oblivion at launch is quite rare. Speaking of Rare, Kameo is quite different from most of the offerings. You've got PGR3, NFS:Most Wanted, Madden, next gen sports in general. COD2, GR:AW, Quake IV, PDZ. There's a fair number of high quality heavy hitting games. Then there are games like Condemned: Criminal Origins and Alan Wake. I don't think the 360 has much to worry about in the games department. If people want to turn up their noses at popular genres like sports, racing, fps, so be it, but there are a lot more buyers for those titles than quirky off beat games. EGM, in one of their recent issues commented on how original IPs fare in the marketplace. In 2004, only one original IP, Fable cracked the top 50 in sales for the year. MS is not going to be able to build a large installed sales base appealing to buyers of quirky off beat games.

The DS launch was a sad sorry affair. The psp launch was a study in mediocrity. A few games worth your time, but even those featured been there, done that gameplay. I love RR, I'm a fan. But, there's nothing new there. Wipeout Pure, Twisted Metal, been there and done that. Lumines, tetris knock off. Stylish to the core but hardly original haven't seen falling blocks before. Neither system was a must buy at launch. I passed on the DS at launch and the psp was a close call. I wanted to try out the media capabilities of the unit probably more than the actual games. I thought the larger screen and cd quality sound would make it a better handheld than the DS. As it is, the screen has issues, and being tied down to headphones constantly became a chore. The DS serves its function well, a handheld for quidk bouts of play. Some games, most notably some of the gba titles can have me playing for hours like Minnish Cap and Mario and Luigi 2.

So, relax dude, this is less about system bashing than you think. Right now, you're acting like a bully comparing a next gen system to two handhelds. Handhelds by their very nature won't be very powerful. They'll be a generation or two or even three behind on the tech curve. The psp is no better than ps1.5, better than the ps, but nowhere close to the ps2. Its control scheme is gba era with a flawed analog nub that causes more problems than it solves. The DS is n64 power and somewhat underrated. It features two cpus. Its control system is what sets it apart. The touch screen is creating its own genre of games and on that basis alone deserves a following. Easy to pick up gameplay.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

<b>You didn't respond to ANY actual point in any post because you are weak-assed moron and a sloppy debater who got his ass handed to him.</b> How do you respond to dumb-arses who say the DS has better online games than XBOX LIVE, I mean that must be nominated for the dumbest comment of the year, right up there with Slade's Onimusha is better than Ninja Gaiden. I mean sometimes the things you guys will say to make a point are just beyond ignorance.

<b>
How about some reading comprehension, chimp? In debate you define your terms; you threw out the term "great games" and I set out to clarify what I mean by great games. You might return the favor so we might have a clue what the hell you are gibbering on about.</b> A clue, don't play stupid. Though in your case i'm beginning to understand you aren't playing. Anybody smart enough to trade in an XBOX for a PSP has gotta be stupid. But I see you mentioned Advanced Wars which is like the only 90% rated game on the DS. I think 90% composite ratings on Gamerankings is the only criteria that everyone can objectively use to say whether a game is great or not. Its not a standard I created, that seems to be the barometer around here, and on a site with pissy little fangirls like you, who think only they know what creativity is, I see why that is the standard. 90% is where all your little subjective BS get's thrown out the window, and we can really see what is a good game or not. And the DS and the PSP stink based on that barometer. So go ahead how many 90% rated games exists on the DS or PSP, how many existed at launch? Let's hear about all the great great games that would motivate someone to sell their XBOX and buy a PSP. You are so smart, yet you pass up great games to play Wipeout and Ridge Racer. And I have no idea. Fella you are about 10 rungs down the ladder from me then.

<b>
You simply have no idea what you are talking about. PsP had numerous games at launch, very good games. </b> No we aren't, post the games and their rankings. This isn't new, we've done this many times. Are the games 80%, 85%, 90%. Listen, we don't have to play this silly little game, based on objective criteria we all know what the answer is. Zip Zero, nada, nothing. The great DS and PSP games don't exists, to this day, aside from Advanced Wars and maybe Luminees. And how far past launch are we Gump?


<b>I was talking about PsP and/or DS vs laying out top dollar for a 360 THIS holiday, and what a lousy bunch of rehashed overpriced genre-crap the 360 line-up mostly consists of. This holiday, the handhelds offer better value and more original gaming than the 360. Again, you can refer to my first post where I discuss that in detail--details you refuse to respond to.</b> Oh so that is the basis of your comparison, pretty unfair if you ask me. You wanna compare the value of the XBOX 360 on day 1, against the PSP and DS this holiday season. Ohhhhhh i get it now, because obviously you can't compare what the DS and PSP offered at their launches, causes it was nothing aside from how do you put it, "rehashed overpriced genre-crap." Well, I would love to do this comparison son, but why don't we wait until we know the EXACT games that will be available for launch on the $360. But it ain't looking good for the handhelds, already we know we are talking about Ghost Recon3, Oblivion, and PGR3. A tactical military shooter, an RPG, and an online racer. That is only 3 of the launch games and already you have 3 genres locked down with top-knotch games. Now if all three of those games rate 90%, 360 will have more 90% rated games than DS and PSP combined from day 1.


<b>
You are right about one thing, the DS was a lousy buy at launch, just like 360 is; I bought one because it was backward compatible and I wanted to play GBA games--I didn't have an SP because it was too small and uncomfortable, just an unlit GBA. . .but if you'll recall, I posted that for most gamers who already had an SP, it was probably smart to wait until the good titles and a price drop. Just like the 360; which you can't even justify with backwards compatiblity.</b> Yes the DS was lousy at launch. Okay so now you have finally admitted that, and others have finally admitted the PSP was lousy at launch. However, you can't say whether or not the 360 is lousy at launch. Launch isn't even here! I mean slow down young man, I know you don't give a damn about being fair, but at least try and conceal your bias. As it stands right now, you are going to be proven wrong, and we all know you won't eat crow when you are proven wrong. This is what i'm talking about, you proclaim the 360 <b>is</b> a lousy buy at launch and launch isn't even here. A bundled console at $399 versus a PSP bundle at $379, if that console has even 1 great game it is already a better deal than the handheld. But you are a fool unwise in matters of money. This is why this past generation you've have owned a GC, a PS2, an XBOX, a DS, a PSP and who knows what else, you are a wasteful fool who doesn't have a clue about value. And you want to give advice to other people. No one should listen to you, you'll have them hocking their wares for the next "new thing" just like you did this whole generation. Let me give you a clue fool, buy an XBOX 360 at launch and just keep it. You will play a lot of great games and spend relatively little money.

<b>
Your posted topic "Why do you want a DS or PsP? Games?" was answered with a concrete discussion of the actual games, their merits, their originality, their quality. You respond with vague gibberish and saying its all just BS fantasy's that you can't debate. Maybe go back down and reread what everyone said. You received responses from people who actually play games; if you'd pull your head of your X-box, you might realize there is a whole world of gaming that you obviously know NOTHING about.</b> Concrete discussion! That was idiotic fanboy wet-dreams. How is saying Wipe-out pure NEW content and having the gall to say it is great? How is saying that LIVE only offered 1 downloadable map, and it was only for Splinter Cell? How is saying the Nintendo DS is a better online gaming than LIVE? How is you proclaiming as fact the 360 is a lousy deal at launch? You need to get a clue as to what kinds of games you like. If you were actually enjoying a system, you'd be playing that system. Instead you are system flipping because nothing has given you the enjoyment you seek this generation. And you are upset because people who bought XBOX from day one actually had the best gaming experience this past generation. And I **think** it will happen all over again this next cycle.

Here it is short and sweet. Buy a 360 at $399 this year, sit back play games play online, rip music, video chat, etc etc. Also sit back and watch Sony skew people up the arse, waiting till 2007, deciding whether they want a network, patch work online gaming support, patchwork HDD utilization, memory cards, possibly over-hyped hardware that may not deliver the expected results, long game delays, etc etc etc. From day 1 on 360 and month after month, not every holiday season, you will get great games. That is what will happen on 360. Will it happen on Revolution and PS3? Who knows. But its guaranteed to happen on XBOX 360. If the launch window and year one is giving you Quake4, GR3, GOW, PGR3, DOA4, PD0, Condemned, Dark Sector, Oblivion, Kameo, and many other games, just imagine year two! Do your wallet a favor, less you end up buying all three systems all over again just like your fool-azz did this past generation.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

You need to calm down. There were no $450 bundles that came from sony. The value bundle is $250 versus the premum bundle from MS at $400. Bundling with the psp wouldnt have worked anyway, too many units sitting unsold on store shelves. About the only people paying for bundles with the psp were guys ordering online and that was their choice.

As for the 360, there won't be a wide diversity of games in the launch window, but that's to be expected. But, getting a full fledged quality rpg like Oblivion at launch is quite rare. Speaking of Rare, Kameo is quite different from most of the offerings. You've got PGR3, NFS:Most Wanted, Madden, next gen sports in general. COD2, GR:AW, Quake IV, PDZ. There's a fair number of high quality heavy hitting games. Then there are games like Condemned: Criminal Origins and Alan Wake. I don't think the 360 has much to worry about in the games department. If people want to turn up their noses at popular genres like sports, racing, fps, so be it, but there are a lot more buyers for those titles than quirky off beat games. EGM, in one of their recent issues commented on how original IPs fare in the marketplace. In 2004, only one original IP, Fable cracked the top 50 in sales for the year. MS is not going to be able to build a large installed sales base appealing to buyers of quirky off beat games.

The DS launch was a sad sorry affair. The psp launch was a study in mediocrity. A few games worth your time, but even those featured been there, done that gameplay. I love RR, I'm a fan. But, there's nothing new there. Wipeout Pure, Twisted Metal, been there and done that. Lumines, tetris knock off. Stylish to the core but hardly original haven't seen falling blocks before. Neither system was a must buy at launch. I passed on the DS at launch and the psp was a close call. I wanted to try out the media capabilities of the unit probably more than the actual games. I thought the larger screen and cd quality sound would make it a better handheld than the DS. As it is, the screen has issues, and being tied down to headphones constantly became a chore. The DS serves its function well, a handheld for quidk bouts of play. Some games, most notably some of the gba titles can have me playing for hours like Minnish Cap and Mario and Luigi 2.

So, relax dude, this is less about system bashing than you think. Right now, you're acting like a bully comparing a next gen system to two handhelds. Handhelds by their very nature won't be very powerful. They'll be a generation or two or even three behind on the tech curve. The psp is no better than ps1.5, better than the ps, but nowhere close to the ps2. Its control scheme is gba era with a flawed analog nub that causes more problems than it solves. The DS is n64 power and somewhat underrated. It features two cpus. Its control system is what sets it apart. The touch screen is creating its own genre of games and on that basis alone deserves a following. Easy to pick up gameplay.

Several threads ago Gagfly stated it would be better to play the DS/PSP duo this holiday instead of buying a 360 at launch. First of all, if that is his opinion, he is entitled to it. I mean if I had just purchased PS2, Gamecube, Gameboy, DS, PSP, and XBOX all this past generation like he did, and if I still wasn't satisfied with gaming like he wasn't, then I'd be a little gun-shy too about the 360. So if he wants to stick with all the platforms he has instead of buying a new 360, well he will be in the majority. Most people won't buy 360 this year. But get on a soapbox and tell people the 360 is a rip-off and that buying a DS/PSP duo this holiday is the right move over 360, well I think that point allows me to crush the sh*t outta him.

Second i'm not at all comparing the two systems in terms of power. I'm comparing the two systems in terms of their launch day value. Launch day. But, i'll take Gagfly's bait and go even further than that, at $379 bundled or $250 solo a PSP is not a better deal than a console like the 360 bundled at $399 or soloe at $299. I mean come on just look at those ratios and tell me i'm wrong. Now, if they want to talk about games, then let's see all the 90% rated games on the DS or the PSP, I think combined there are 2. WOW. What about the 360? We don't know, but given GR2 was about 86%, Morrowind was about 90%, and PGR2 was about 93%, I think it is fair to say at launch 360 will have 3 games that are possibly rated 90%. Now, we all know that there will be more than 3 launch games. So, you can't even say that this holiday season DS/PSP duo will be a better deal in terms of games. Plus the 360 will have a minimum of 3 good games in 3 different genres, shooter, rpg, and racer. If DOA4 appears before the holiday you can possibly add in a great fighting game, to make it 4 genres. I don't know what the Japanese launch games are going to be, so there could be even more genres covered. There will be plenty of games to play at launch for the 360. This was not the case with PSP or DS and can be argued whether or not that still is the situation, that depends on whether you like the niche genres the DS is putting out there. If you don't like stuff like Luminees and Nintendogs, guess what, you aren't gonna be happy. You will be sat waiting around for Metroid Prime Hunters or GT3 for the PSP. I'm not advocating everyone step up and buy 360 at launch. But I will defend when people make mindless comments that it is a rip-off at launch. There is a difference between a person not interested and saying its a waste of money. I'm not saying a person shouldn't choose the DS or PSP over a 360. But there is a difference between choosing a PSP/DS and saying the PSP/DS is a better deal. And to go even further, i'm not saying the 360 is cheap, but it is not expensive and is in fact cheap compared to waiting 2 years for the PS3 and paying $400 for a naked system.

[theWacoKid]

Several threads ago Gagfly stated it would be better to play the DS/PSP duo this holiday instead of buying a 360 at launch. First of all, if that is his opinion, he is entitled to it. I mean if I had just purchased PS2, Gamecube, Gameboy, DS, PSP, and XBOX all this past generation like he did, and if I still wasn't satisfied with gaming like he wasn't, then I'd be a little gun-shy too about the 360. So if he wants to stick with all the platforms he has instead of buying a new 360, well he will be in the majority. Most people won't buy 360 this year. But get on a soapbox and tell people the 360 is a rip-off and that buying a DS/PSP duo this holiday is the right move over 360, well I think that point allows me to crush the sh*t outta him.

Second i'm not at all comparing the two systems in terms of power. I'm comparing the two systems in terms of their launch day value. Launch day. But, i'll take Gagfly's bait and go even further than that, at $379 bundled or $250 solo a PSP is not a better deal than a console like the 360 bundled at $399 or soloe at $299. I mean come on just look at those ratios and tell me i'm wrong. Now, if they want to talk about games, then let's see all the 90% rated games on the DS or the PSP, I think combined there are 2. WOW. What about the 360? We don't know, but given GR2 was about 86%, Morrowind was about 90%, and PGR2 was about 93%, I think it is fair to say at launch 360 will have 3 games that are possibly rated 90%. Now, we all know that there will be more than 3 launch games. So, you can't even say that this holiday season DS/PSP duo will be a better deal in terms of games. Plus the 360 will have a minimum of 3 good games in 3 different genres, shooter, rpg, and racer. If DOA4 appears before the holiday you can possibly add in a great fighting game, to make it 4 genres. I don't know what the Japanese launch games are going to be, so there could be even more genres covered. There will be plenty of games to play at launch for the 360. This was not the case with PSP or DS and can be argued whether or not that still is the situation, that depends on whether you like the niche genres the DS is putting out there. If you don't like stuff like Luminees and Nintendogs, guess what, you aren't gonna be happy. You will be sat waiting around for Metroid Prime Hunters or GT3 for the PSP. I'm not advocating everyone step up and buy 360 at launch. But I will defend when people make mindless comments that it is a rip-off at launch. There is a difference between a person not interested and saying its a waste of money. I'm not saying a person shouldn't choose the DS or PSP over a 360. But there is a difference between choosing a PSP/DS and saying the PSP/DS is a better deal. And to go even further, i'm not saying the 360 is cheap, but it is not expensive and is in fact cheap compared to waiting 2 years for the PS3 and paying $400 for a naked system.

For him, paying $400 for the psp/ds duo is the better deal over a 360. I can see his point. For him it is. But, to my way of thinking, the DS is carrying the load here, the psp is an expensive boat anchor and a gaping money pit. Expensive games, expensive movies, expensive mem sticks, with no immediate change in the offing. Add to that software offerings that have ground to a virtual standstill, and nothing original or exciting on the horizon. So, I'm out. I'm still sticking with the DS because I think it turned a corner with games like Meteos and Kirby's Canvas Curse and followed it up with Nintendogs and Advance Wars. So, I sold off the psp/games and split the difference between the 360 and more DS games. I'm in between the two camps here.

My 360 pre-order is paid off as I took advantage of a dvd deal promotion at EB. $5 per dvd which also includes tax, so the net credit works out to $5.70 per disc. I have a lot of dvds, many of which I haven't watched in years, some very old titles and some crap I was looking to get rid of anyway, so this promotion was a good deal for me. If I change my mind I can always get the $500 put back on my Edge card. As it is, I have another $170 still available to use.

If you're gadfly and you want new, unique and original and you think MS has to be losing $75 per console like they did before, then yeah, the 360 is a ripoff. If you liked the xbox and what it had to offer, then you're going to love the 360. That's you.

As for me, I want some next gen gaming, the 360 will be here shortly and the ps3 will be whenever. I don't think sony has their act together. They'll have production problems as always, they'll be splitting development resources between three platforms, they still have a far more complicated architecture to program for, and they'll be rushing games to make up for the 360 lead. None of that is going to be pretty.

I think the earliest sony will be in NA will be sept 2006 and more likely not unitl xmas 2006 and there's a possibility of slipping to 2007. But, judging from previous launches, the overall quality of the launch lineup will be supspect and key marquee titles won't arrive unitl late 2007 or even 2008. Square can't get FFXII out for the ps2 this xmas, so when is a next gen FF game going to appear on ps3. 2008, 2009 maybe, that's too effin long to wait around for. MGS4, late 2007. GT5, late 2007 at earliest and 2008 is more likely. Socom next gen won't be until late 2007 at earliest, because sony and its bean counters are wasting their resources milking the ps2 platform dry with yet another socom that is struggling to perform on an underpowered system. If naughty dog, insomniac and sucker punch are still making games for the ps2, guess what they're not doing. That's right, they're not making games for the ps3. Sony is taking the 360 too lightly.

Launching early is a big advantage if done right, and from what I can see, MS is doing it mostly right. People bring up the dreamcast, but sega was a company with one foot in the grave financially, and with two strikes agasint them as they pissed off both fans and developers with their botched saturn system and their early abandonment of the system. As it was, we'll never know how the dreamcast would have fared against the ps2 since they bailed out so early. MS is not a cash strapped company with any debt load hanging over their head. They've cut the life cylce of the xbox perhaps prematurely, but it doesn't qualify as abandonment of the platform. And they'll be sticking it out for more than 3 months after the ps3 launches. Sony is in for the fight of their lives in NA and Europe. If they don't deliver on their "quantum" increase in performance and deliver killzone as advertised at E3, they're dead meat. They'll never hear the end of it. You can only pull this marketing BS so many times before people stop listening to the boy who cried wolf.

[Gadfly2317]

<b>You didn't respond to ANY actual point in any post because you are weak-assed moron and a sloppy debater who got his ass handed to him.</b> How do you respond to dumb-arses who say the DS has better online games than XBOX LIVE, I mean that must be nominated for the dumbest comment of the year, right up there with Slade's Onimusha is better than Ninja Gaiden. I mean sometimes the things you guys will say to make a point are just beyond ignorance.

I'll try to address some of your other stuff when I'm done going out on this gorgeous Labor Day and partying my brains out. . . but I did want to address this real quick.

I never said that either the PsP or DS had a BETTER online service than Xbox or that there were a larger number of online titles; at least I don't believe I said that. What I did say--to clarify if I was sloppy-- was that they offer different types of online games--something besides just shooters and racing sims, that the online is FREE, and you can hop online wirelessly all over the place, coffee shops, bars, college campuses, etc. That is pretty damned cool. That's all.

[T.Tashi]

My question didn't get answered. What games come with the Xbox360 for $399?

[Cuddly Knife]

None. The "bundle" that he's talking about only comes with the wireless controller, some kind of cables that allow high def(?), and a coupla other things that won't be in the bare bones version. The bundles that come with games are more than $500.00, I believe, according to other posts that I've seen.

[Cuddly Knife]

Here we go. Tken from one of Mochan's posts.

The Xbox 360 core system -- priced at $299.99 in the United States, ?299.99 in Europe and £209.99 in the U.K. -- will come with the console, a wired controller, faceplate, standard audio-visual cable and an Xbox Live Silver membership. An Xbox Live Silver membership allows you to create a user id, download game content, access the Xbox 360 marketplace and gives Live users the ability to chat with friends. It does not, however, allow users to play games online. To do this, Silver members must upgrade to a Gold membership.

The Xbox 360 fully-loaded system -- priced at $399.99 in the United States, ?399.99 in Europe and £279.99 in the U.K. -- will come complete with the console, a wireless controller, a 20GB detachable hard drive, a faceplate, headset, component HD audio-visual cables, an Ethernet cable, Xbox Live Silver membership and, for a limited time (most likely only though the end of 2005), an Xbox 360 media remote.

[slade]

My question didn't get answered. What games come with the Xbox360 for $399?

None, and it was positively hillarious when TMG switched over to whether any of the games that came with the PSP bundle were good or not. Not to mention clinging to the pricepoint of $450.

[Gadfly2317]

Before delving into the wandering minutiae of your post, I can pretty much sum up what I'm saying about getting a handheld this holiday being a better value than the 360, which IS over-priced. First, Oblivion looks to be the one great game available at launch; if you've got a PC, just play it there and wait at least for the first system price drop and for some of the games to drop in price.

Second, handheld gaming has hit its stride right now for the numerous reasons I listed in my first post. If you don't like original game experiences, but are only looking for the big eye-candy rehash like PG3, then what I'm saying is pointless. But being able to play the most original system out there--when you can buy the system plus 10 or more games for the same price you can the 360; to me that is all the reason to wait until next year for all the consoles to be out. You accuse me of being wasteful and impulsive, but I did the same thing with Ps2 which everyone was so eager to jump on. Yeah, I was itching for a next gen system then too, but I waited until all three consoles were out, actually played all three, and the first launcher Ps2 didn't win me over. It's always possible that the 360 will ultimately win me over, but not on day 1 at $399+$60 games, with those titles, the Xbox trackrecord, shoddy backwards compatibility, and two other consoles getting ready to come out in 12 short months. I say again, checking out the handheld scene is the perfect thing for a gamer to do in the meantime, because handheld gaming is where it's at right now.

If you were thrilled with Xbox this time around, then more power to you, but no one who griped about the xbox and sold it (I'm looking at you Waco) should just take it on blind faith that it's going to be different this time; the xbox had a short-assed lifespan and the least diversity in games, period. Objective fact. And the announced titles are the same thing all over again; as Waco said, Racers Shooters Sports sell better than innovative new titles--and I'm not even saying people shouldn't play those games, especially the youngsters who probably still find them new--but any life-long gamer over the age of 25 who still gets off on driving in a circle more than exploring NEW gaming experiences is a zombie jackoff.



<b>
I think 90% composite ratings on Gamerankings is the only criteria that everyone can objectively use to say whether a game is great or not. Its not a standard I created, that seems to be the barometer around here, and on a site with pissy little fangirls like you, who think only they know what creativity is, I see why that is the standard. 90% is where all your little subjective BS get's thrown out the window, and we can really see what is a good game or not.
Well, this one is going to be pointless, because for one thing I am totally NOT in the camp that believes a game has to be 90% average on GR to be great. Nor number of copies sold. I gave a solid definition in my first post of what makes a great game, and though there is room for subjectivity and taste in what you prefer, what makes a great game is relatively objective. There are some hyper-high scoring games, and all of those are impressive--the top ten highest scoring games of all time at GR; 4 of the top 5 slots of which are held by titles on Nintendo systems. No handheld titles; one thing about review scores is "graphics" and the handhelds are not, nor will they ever be as cutting edge as the newest console.
In considering something great though, when you get down to scores in the 75-89% range, the other criteria I listed is more important than the score, because nearly every release gets mushed up by averaging into this range, and some of the coolest game experiences get scored low but still get high praise in the review; like Feel the Magic, an extremely fun, funny, original highly praised game, but only scored a 75% average because of things like it being short, and low-budget graphically. Conversely, take Psychonauts, which scored 90%. . .I had high hopes for it, but it turned out to mostly be a dull, chatty rehash, despite some really trippy level design. Again, I refer you to my first post where I gave concrete details about particular games and what makes them desirable to any gamer looking to do something new. Like you said, and I agreed with, something new that is poorly made can suck; and a well done rehash can still be fun, but when something is both extremely original AND pulled off brilliantly, THAT is what discerning, jaded gamers are always looking for.

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see more DS and even PsP titles with 88-90% + titles than the 360 unless reviewers are just pissing themselves over the new graphics. Guess we'll just have to wait until January 1 2006 and tally 'em up.


You wanna compare the value of the XBOX 360 on day 1, against the PSP and DS this holiday season. Ohhhhhh i get it now, because obviously you can't compare what the DS and PSP offered at their launches, causes it was nothing aside from how do you put it I could compare them at their launches and did. The DS was not a great value at launch; neither is the 360. This holiday, gamers have a LOT of choices, including just spending money to buy games for the systems they already have. We're going in circles here I think being able to buy every title I listed in my first post--as well as the highly esteemed titles already out like Kirby Canvas Curse, Meteos, AWDS, Nintendogs and Feel the Magic--for the what you'd spend on a 360 at launch. .. that is all the reason in the world to leave the 360 on the shelf a little longer.

However, you can't say whether or not the 360 is lousy at launch. Launch isn't even here! I mean slow down young man, I know you don't give a damn about being fair, but at least try and conceal your bias. As it stands right now, you are going to be proven wrong, and we all know you won't eat crow when you are proven wrong. This is what i'm talking about, you proclaim the 360 <b>is</b> a lousy buy at launch and launch isn't even here. Yeah launch isn't here; if I can't proclaim it's mostly an uninspiring bunch of reruns of the most stale genres of games based on the announced launch titles, then how can you say it's a great launch line-up. I mean slow down young man, launch isn't even here yet--we can't proclaim anything about launch, so WOULDN'T IT BE STUPID TO PRE-ORDER ONE THEN? You're right, I could be eating crow; I've eaten crow before. It's pretty obvious the PC title Oblivion is going to be stellar, but even if PG3 manages to hit 90% composite on GR, what's new about it? Why do I want it? Maybe there's a reason. Christ man, have you not read any hands on previews even? Don't just list the title's name, tell me what they are doing to games like Amped 3 and PG3 and Perfect Dark Zero that makes me want to visit these games and genres again, for $399 + $60 a pop. Kameo? Hey, maybe it'll rule, but based on Rare's recent track record and the problematic development this game has faced, it'll be a freaking miracle.

But you are a fool unwise in matters of money. This is why this past generation you've have owned a GC, a PS2, an XBOX, a DS, a PSP and who knows what else, you are a wasteful fool who doesn't have a clue about value.
I like games, what can I say, but this criticism of yours is based on me telling you that you don't have a clue about gaming and great games because you have ventured outside of the narrow confines of your Xbox.

Although this is off topic, being able to game on all these systems was not exactly that expensive or wasteful. GC was the system I chose at launch, and for nearly 2yrs it was the only one of the above consoles that I had--and it was a blast. But I'm not some goofy fanboy like you that I can't see there are incredibly cool games on all systems. When I got the Xbox, it was with money I won at a contest at work. There were some great titles on it, but that was about it. Overall, not a very rewarding system, so I traded it and the games in on a PsP, which made the PsP very inexpensive. For the Ps2--it had fallen to $149 I traded in my Ps1, knocked a little off, and it was no problem since the Ps2 is backwards compatible. By this time, huge number of Players Choice titles and lots of great games very inexpensive used. The DS, I traded in a GBA and a few GC and Ps2 titles that I was done with; and again, the DS was backwards compatible. Any Xbox-only gamer, though, wanting to trade in an Xbox towards a 360 better be careful, since MS won't actually talk straight about its hokey hard-drive based emulated limited backward compatibility.

I know value and getting the most out of my gaming dollars and still being able to experience the diverse gaming that's out there offered by the different companies. I'm not saying there won't be any great games on the 360, or even that people shouldn't get one. I even agree that someone like you should go ahead and get it at launch--or true gaming fiends with fat wallets who like buying everything released on day 1. But with that hefty sticker and a launch that could only inspire if you are still more into graphics than gameplay, there is every reason in the world to wait a few months and really see what everyone is bringing to the table--especially with so many better--and better value-- things to spend your game dollars on this holiday.

[Darwin]

I stand corrected.

Most racing game sequels are rehashes, you'll usually only find a handful of things that have been tweaked or changed. If Psygnosis were to change the gameplay completely it'd disappoint fans of the series...they'd be better off making another game entirely.

Hate to say, but you're right about the racing game genre. As much as I play racing games, I am getting dissapointed in their minimal upgrades with each new game.

Project Gotham 1 was almost a remake because about 75% of it was the exact same as Metropolis Street Racer. Then Project Gotham 2 comes out with only new tracks, but no new game modes. GT3 and 4 ... minor upgrades. Moto GP 3 ... small upgrades and they took away a key aspect of the game.

At least I see some progress in the shooter genre. But in the racing genre ... man these people need to get some new material.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Hate to say, but you're right about the racing game genre. As much as I play racing games, I am getting dissapointed in their minimal upgrades with each new game.

Project Gotham 1 was almost a remake because about 75% of it was the exact same as Metropolis Street Racer. Then Project Gotham 2 comes out with only new tracks, but no new game modes. GT3 and 4 ... minor upgrades. Moto GP 3 ... small upgrades and they took away a key aspect of the game.

At least I see some progress in the shooter genre. But in the racing genre ... man these people need to get some new material.

Play more Burnout!

[ThaMaskedGamer]

For him, paying $400 for the psp/ds duo is the better deal over a 360. I can see his point. For him it is. But, to my way of thinking, the DS is carrying the load here, the psp is an expensive boat anchor and a gaping money pit. Expensive games, expensive movies, expensive mem sticks, with no