Let's discuss innovation

[trebor]

Now that Nintendo has employed brand new control schemes to the handheld market, and how the rumors surrounding the Revolution include innovative control schemes, gyroscopic sensors, new viewing perspectives, and 3D projection, how is it that people can seriously argue that Nintendo isn't an innovative company anymore?

History lesson...

Nintendo is the first hardware company to release 1st party wireless controllers for their home console, which the competitors are now copying. Xbox 360 is confirmed to be using wireless controllers, and the rumor is that PS3 will use them too.

Nintendo was the first hardware company to use analog sticks as a standard for their 1st party controllers for the N64, which Sony and M$ adopted.

Nintendo was the first company to use force-feedback in their controllers, which Sony and M$ copied.

While not the first console to have this feature, the N64 was the oldest console in recent memory to use 4 controller ports, which M$ used. Sony still employed 2 ports with PS2 and no news yet for PS3.

Nintendo essentially created most game genres which gamers enjoy today.

Nintendo defined how 3D games are played with Mario 64.

Now, considering how much Nintendo has brought to the videogame industry which has been adopted or copied by their competitors, how can any haters seriously argue that they aren't innovative? Explain this to me.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Now that Nintendo has employed brand new control schemes to the handheld market, and how the rumors surrounding the Revolution include innovative control schemes, gyroscopic sensors, new viewing perspectives, and 3D projection, how is it that people can seriously argue that Nintendo isn't an innovative company anymore?

They also came out with the Power Glove, The robot thing, The virtual boy, the answer to online CONNECTIVITY, let's not forget these highlights in Nintendo's history.



History lesson...

Nintendo is the first hardware company to release 1st party wireless controllers for their home console, which the competitors are now copying. Xbox 360 is confirmed to be using wireless controllers, and the rumor is that PS3 will use them too.
[[QUOTE=trebor]

Yeah but it didn't come with the vibration function so they did it but they didn't go all the way with it the Wavebird is cool though Logitech wireless controllers for the xbox are better.

[QUOTE=trebor]
Nintendo was the first hardware company to use analog sticks as a standard for their 1st party controllers for the N64, which Sony and M$ adopted.

True but the 3 pronged controller layout was horrible and the sensitivty to the analogue stick was too much.


Nintendo was the first company to use force-feedback in their controllers, which Sony and M$ copied.

yeah but they didn't do it right. It was a add on that needed a seperate battery.



While not the first console to have this feature, the N64 was the oldest console in recent memory to use 4 controller ports, which M$ used. Sony still employed 2 ports with PS2 and no news yet for PS3.

Yeah that was a good standard they set. Sega also used 4 controller ports with the DC. I always found it funny that Nintendo was so forward thinking in multiplayer gaming but yet has to be dragged kicking and screaming into the online era. But the 4 controller ports they do deserve props for making that a standard.


Nintendo essentially created most game genres which gamers enjoy today.

How old are you. What are the differences in gameplay mechanics from the original Prince of Persia to Pitfall to Super mario brothers. What genres have they created? You seem to be somewhat delusional.

Nintendo defined how 3D games are played with Mario 64.[[QUOTE=trebor]

No it defined how 3d platformers would be played. Tombraider and others were released around the same time and both incorparated 3d worlds. Personally though I still think that Legend of Zelda Ocrania of time is still the best 3d adventure game ever.

[QUOTE=trebor]
Now, considering how much Nintendo has brought to the videogame industry which has been adopted or copied by their competitors, how can any haters seriously argue that they aren't innovative? Explain this to me.

You can argue that because from the N64 to the GC the basic gameplay mechanics in there core games hasn't changed at all. And not only that they fail to move there games forward into the standards that are established across the industry but focus on failures such as connectivity. And playing games with bongos (which was some what a ripped off of Sega's game with the Monkey and Macaranas). I mean come on they still aren't doing voice over in any of there games. I can see the artistic reason for not having it in Zelda (which is still dumb considering all the text in the games) but MP with no VO come on.

Nintendo is like a good independent artist who hasn't found the right producer yet. You can see the talent but the lack of polish holds them back.

[tekbit]

They also came out with the Power Glove, The robot thing, The virtual boy, the answer to online CONNECTIVITY, let's not forget these highlights in Nintendo's history.



True but the 3 pronged controller layout was horrible and the sensitivty to the analogue stick was too much.


yeah but they didn't do it right. It was a add on that needed a seperate battery.


Yeah that was a good standard they set. Sega also used 4 controller ports with the DC. I always found it funny that Nintendo was so forward thinking in multiplayer gaming but yet has to be dragged kicking and screaming into the online era. But the 4 controller ports they do deserve props for making that a standard.



How old are you. What are the differences in gameplay mechanics from the original Prince of Persia to Pitfall to Super mario brothers. What genres have they created? You seem to be somewhat delusional.






Yeah but every great inventor fails every now and then. At least they attempted to be inovative. Thats more then you can say about other console developers. I love how all the haters put a negative spin on everything Nintendo does. Can you ever find it in yourself to give credit were its due?? Guess not.

[trebor]

They also came out with the Power Glove, The robot thing, The virtual boy, the answer to online CONNECTIVITY, let's not forget these highlights in Nintendo's history.

Well, let's see how M$'s media-center connectivity plays out when we talk about failures, or the PSX for Sony. Either way, you can't deny that Nintendo really tried doing things differently with the items you mentioned.


Yeah but it didn't come with the vibration function so they did it but they didn't go all the way with it the Wavebird is cool though Logitech wireless controllers for the xbox are better.

Well, first off, the reason Ninty left out the vibration was to make the battery life last longer. And would Logitech have made wireless controllers if Nintendo hadn't first?

Plus, despite the fact that there are many companies that can make high tech jets, the Wright brothers still get the credit for being the first ones with the innovation to make a craft fly.


True but the 3 pronged controller layout was horrible and the sensitivty to the analogue stick was too much.

That's a matter of opinion, and a bit nitpicky if you ask me.


yeah but they didn't do it right. It was a add on that needed a seperate battery.

Yes, but if they hadn't of done it, you think we would have it standard in today's controllers?

Also, ask Sony about how they "did it right", seeing as how they just lost a lawsuit for stealing the mechanics from a different company.


Yeah that was a good standard they set. Sega also used 4 controller ports with the DC. I always found it funny that Nintendo was so forward thinking in multiplayer gaming but yet has to be dragged kicking and screaming into the online era. But the 4 controller ports they do deserve props for making that a standard.

Truth be told, the Bally Videocade, circa 1979, is the first videogame machine I know of to use 4 controller ports, but the art was lost until roughly 1996 apparently.


How old are you. What are the differences in gameplay mechanics from the original Prince of Persia to Pitfall to Super mario brothers. What genres have they created? You seem to be somewhat delusional.

Umm...obviously I'm older then you, because I remember the classic games Mario Brothers (not the "Super") and Donkey Kong, which not only created the platforming genre, but many of the inherent principles of the those games are still used.


You can argue that because from the N64 to the GC the basic gameplay mechanics in there core games hasn't changed at all. And not only that they fail to move there games forward into the standards that are established across the industry but focus on failures such as connectivity. And playing games with bongos (which was some what a ripped off of Sega's game with the Monkey and Macaranas). I mean come on they still aren't doing voice over in any of there games. I can see the artistic reason for not having it in Zelda (which is still dumb considering all the text in the games) but MP with no VO come on.

I'm willing to bet that the core gameplay mechanics in the flagship titles for Xbox and Xbox 360 will be virtually identical. In fact, I'm betting the popular gaming genres on Xbox will remain identical in the next-gen.

I'll give you that it was a critical failure to not employ using online connectivity this generation, but based on the small percentage of gamers who currently are online, it seems like it's the next-gen which will be the defining era of online gaming. Which, in case you have been living in a cave (quite possible) you will find it of interest that Nintendo has a fully developed online plan, which sounds a hell of a lot better then what M$ is doing for the next gen.

Aside from that, in a lot of ways using voice-overs is an asthetic choice. Is it integral to gameplay, or is it bit of a novelty? In almost every single game I own with voice-overs, you will hear the same, for lack of a better term, catchphrase used over and over and over during the gameplay. Cutscenes are usually where most of the oomph is retained from using them, that I'll give you.


Nintendo is like a good independent artist who hasn't found the right producer yet. You can see the talent but the lack of polish holds them back.

I see Nintendo more of like the Xerox of the early 80's - they had the innovation to create the GUI system that is used in every single computer we use today, but they lacked the business sense to develop it and profit from it.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

I see Nintendo more of like the Xerox of the early 80's - they had the innovation to create the GUI system that is used in every single computer we use today, but they lacked the business sense to develop it and profit from it.

Everything besides this ^^ is agruable and I'm not going to rehash those arguments. But I completely agree with you on this above statement.

[Mochan]

Nintendo essentially created most game genres which gamers enjoy today.

Hmm, quickie list of game genres gamers enjoy today:

RTS
FPS
Platformer
Fighting Game
Sports
Racing Game
Tactical Combat
Console-style RPG
PC Style RPG
Action RPG
Puzzle Game
Lightgun Games

Platformers as we know it may have been created by Nintendo with Super Mario, though I can't really say for sure. But there were a lot of older platformer games before Mario Bros (not Super) like Conan The Barbarian on the old Apple PCs and I'm sure there were tons of them on the Atari as well. I think Lightgun games started with Duckhunt though, and I think that was Nintendo.

I think most of the other game genres were created by other companies. RTS was created by Westwood Studios I think, FPS by iD, fighting game... hmm Capcom? Or does Karate Championship count as a fighting game? I think that was a Nintendo game. :) Action RPG might have started with Zelda.

Jap RPGs come from Dragon Warrior I think, or maybe Final Fantasy. Dunno. Tactical/SRPGs were Quest. PC Style RPG started with Wasteland. Puzzles? Tetris? Dunno.

Lots of genres are all but dead though, like the side scrolling shooter, adventure game, etc.

That said, I agree that Nintendo is still an innovative company, and nobody has any business saying they aren't.

[theWacoKid]

Nintendo is like a good independent artist who hasn't found the right producer yet. You can see the talent but the lack of polish holds them back.

Well, that gets my vote for dumbest quote of the year. Lack of polish?! What effin planet do you reside on, because it ain't earth.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Well, that gets my vote for dumbest quote of the year. Lack of polish?! What effin planet do you reside on, because it ain't earth.


It's a metaphore dumba$$! I didn't mean that Nintendo games had a lack of polish per se but after seing SMS and Kirby air raid that's a point that can be argued.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

I'm willing to bet that the core gameplay mechanics in the flagship titles for Xbox and Xbox 360 will be virtually identical. In fact, I'm betting the popular gaming genres on Xbox will remain identical in the next-gen.



I thought this was a post about Nintendo?

[trebor]

I thought this was a post about Nintendo?

I needed to put things into perspective to you. Videogame genres tend to innovate very little between console generations.

Also, we're talking about two very different things - Nintendo the hardware manufacturer and Nintendo the software developer. Clearly though, I think Nintendo has innovated on both fronts and has had missteps on both fronts.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

I needed to put things into perspective to you. Videogame genres tend to innovate very little between console generations.

What perspective is that. You started a thread why Nintendo didn't ge recognization for there innovation. I told you why I thought that. You bring the Xbox like some how any of us "xbots" are preaching about MS innovativeness from the pulpits. I believe they have introduced some cool consoles gaming that wasn't there before though.



Also, we're talking about two very different things - Nintendo the hardware manufacturer and Nintendo the software developer. Clearly though, I think Nintendo has innovated on both fronts and has had missteps on both fronts.

That's why your orginal post touted all of Nintendo's hardware innovations. And was so off base about there game innovation.

[theWacoKid]

It's a metaphore dumba$$! I didn't mean that Nintendo games had a lack of polish per se but after seing SMS and Kirby air raid that's a point that can be argued.

You're the dumbass with the dumbass quote. And, oh, here's a novel idea, play the games instead of seeing them, then maybe you'd have an effin clue or a shred of credibility when you post.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

You're the dumbass with the dumbass quote. And, oh, here's a novel idea, play the games instead of seeing them, then maybe you'd have an effin clue or a shred of credibility when you post.

Now you're defending the GC? And you of all people are talking about playing the game instead of seeing them (I do own SMS) ? That's funny.

Still got your PS2? Get online in Madden or R&C hell I've got gamefly name your game. You want to talk about playing the game instead of seeing them.

[theWacoKid]

Now you're defending the GC? And you of all people are talking about playing the game instead of seeing them (I do own SMS) ? That's funny.

Still got your PS2? Get online in Madden or R&C hell I've got gamefly name your game. You want to talk about playing the game instead of seeing them.

Oh, the little punk is angry, that's so cute. Wow, what a gamer, you need to gamefly your games. Now, that's pathetic. And that would prove what, anyway? You're still a dufus, with your brain dead remarks. You backpeddle and constantly have to pull your foot out of your mouth, rationalize and make excuses, no, that's not what I said, blah, blah, blah.

I didn't defend the gc, you talked about nintendo, remember? This is your quote. "You can see the talent but the lack of polish holds them back." But, you want to claim the following, and I quote, "I didn't mean that Nintendo games had a lack of polish per se." So, what were you talking about, the frickin hardware. Hypocrite, liar and all around dufus extrordinaire.

And now the ulitmate cop out, a gaming challenge to his foe as if that would solve your legendary ignorance.

[trebor]

What perspective is that. You started a thread why Nintendo didn't ge recognization for there innovation. I told you why I thought that. You bring the Xbox like some how any of us "xbots" are preaching about MS innovativeness from the pulpits. I believe they have introduced some cool consoles gaming that wasn't there before though.

That's why your orginal post touted all of Nintendo's hardware innovations. And was so off base about there game innovation.

What perspective? Read below.


You can argue that because from the N64 to the GC the basic gameplay mechanics in there core games hasn't changed at all.

The perspective that it's not just Nintendo "where the basic gameplay mechanics in "there" core game hasn't changed at all", it's that most genres across multiple systems haven't changed their core gameplay mechanics.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Oh, the little punk is angry, that's so cute. Wow, what a gamer, you need to gamefly your games. Now, that's pathetic. And that would prove what, anyway? You're still a dufus, with your brain dead remarks. You backpeddle and constantly have to pull your foot out of your mouth, rationalize and make excuses, no, that's not what I said, blah, blah, blah.

I didn't defend the gc, you talked about nintendo, remember? This is your quote. "You can see the talent but the lack of polish holds them back." But, you want to claim the following, and I quote, "I didn't mean that Nintendo games had a lack of polish per se." So, what were you talking about, the frickin hardware. Hypocrite, liar and all around dufus extrordinaire.

And now the ulitmate cop out, a gaming challenge to his foe as if that would solve your legendary ignorance.


No I used a metaphore and you took it literally. Do you know what a metahpor is? It was obvious. You didn't defend the GC, You defended Nintendo is that what you are saying? Ok you win :rolleyes:

As for the Gamefly yeah I really don't see my self spending $50 dollar single player games anymore. Better to gamefly than to pirate I guess? Anyway the challenge is because I've become convinced like another poster on this board is that you are a liar! Plain and simple I think you lie? Come on if Folken and Moody can hook up online me an you can. When it comes down to it I think you read and post on messageboards more than you play the games. That's why you are so negative about everything that doesn't have to be sucked out of one Ken Kurtagi's nipples.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

The perspective that it's not just Nintendo "where the basic gameplay mechanics in "there" core game hasn't changed at all", it's that most genres across multiple systems haven't changed their core gameplay mechanics.

Ok so since the industry doesn't innovate much Nintendo doesn't have to either? Ok I agree with that. But why make a post praising Nintendo's innovation? Bottom line I realize that Nintendo has innovated over the years a lot less recently. And respect there contributions to the industry but I don't believe that they are above and beyond what several other companies contributed.

[theWacoKid]

No I used a metaphore and you took it literally. Do you know what a metahpor is? It was obvious. You didn't defend the GC, You defended Nintendo is that what you are saying? Ok you win :rolleyes:

As for the Gamefly yeah I really don't see my self spending $50 dollar single player games anymore. Better to gamefly than to pirate I guess? Anyway the challenge is because I've become convinced like another poster on this board is that you are a liar! Plain and simple I think you lie? Come on if Folken and Moody can hook up online me an you can. When it comes down to it I think you read and post on messageboards more than you play the games. That's why you are so negative about everything that doesn't have to be sucked out of one Ken Kurtagi's nipples.

Who spends $50 on games. I've bought games recently at $10 canadian brand new. I dont' care what you think and you haven't the faintest idea of how to use a metaphor. Food for thought is an example of a metaphor, a figure of speech standing for something else. You were attempting an analogy and a lousy one at that. You failed miserably. You want try again for double jeapordy points? LOL!

Yeah, I'm this great sony fanboy, but I owned an xbox for three years, a gamecube for slightly less, and I picked up a DS. But, I only preach the gospel of sony and only buy sony products. What a load!

I lie about what? Point it out. Everyone who's attempted your pathetic train of thought has failed and you'll be no different. When I talk about the games Ive played, I've been very specific and anyone who's played those games knows what I"m talking about. And playing me online would prove what? I don't own R&C:UYA, haven't played it. Madden, I haven't touched in a while, and i've got better things to do than wait on you to gamefly madden and prep for a pointless showdown. If what I remember said about this moody folken showdown, moody claimed he was great at streetfighter or whatever. Don't think I've ever made a claim to be a great player, so if you beat me in a game of madden, not sure what point you would be making. If I beat you, then what? What's in it for me? Bragging rights in a pissing contest?!

You're the one talking about seeing games, rather than playing them, you're the one talkng about nintendo's lack of polish, but you don't list anything to back up your comments. You're the one with the problem, not me.

There are a ton of liars and misinformed posters on message boards. But, I wouldn't comment on Halo 2 until I'd beaten it, just because of clowns like you who would claim I hadn't played the game.

I'll pass on your infantile challenge. I don't play to win, I play for fun and if you check my posts, I've said that consistently. Whether you're a better gamer than me, well, I could care less and beating someone doesn't mean they haven't played the game. As it is, you wouldn't know that you were really playing against me and vice versa. These types of challenges are useless if winning is the only object.

[trebor]

Ok so since the industry doesn't innovate much Nintendo doesn't have to either? Ok I agree with that. But why make a post praising Nintendo's innovation? Bottom line I realize that Nintendo has innovated over the years a lot less recently. And respect there contributions to the industry but I don't believe that they are above and beyond what several other companies contributed.

Holy crap.

You're missing my original point, which is, how can people claim that Nintendo isn't innovative when both Sony and Microsoft are incorporating Nintendo's innovation from THIS GENERATION? Both M$ and Sony are using wireless controllers in the next-gen as standard, which Nintendo started THIS generation.

I'm not talking about 20 years or 10 years or 5 years ago.

But, please share with me what "several other companies" have contributed to the vg industry?

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Who spends $50 on games. I've bought games recently at $10 canadian brand new. I dont' care what you think and you haven't the faintest idea of how to use a metaphor. Food for thought is an example of a metaphor, a figure of speech standing for something else. You were attempting an analogy and a lousy one at that. You failed miserably. You want try again for double jeapordy points? LOL!

Yeah, I'm this great sony fanboy, but I owned an xbox for three years, a gamecube for slightly less, and I picked up a DS. But, I only preach the gospel of sony and only buy sony products. What a load!

I lie about what? Point it out. Everyone who's attempted your pathetic train of thought has failed and you'll be no different. When I talk about the games Ive played, I've been very specific and anyone who's played those games knows what I"m talking about. And playing me online would prove what? I don't own R&C:UYA, haven't played it. Madden, I haven't touched in a while, and i've got better things to do than wait on you to gamefly madden and prep for a pointless showdown. If what I remember said about this moody folken showdown, moody claimed he was great at streetfighter or whatever. Don't think I've ever made a claim to be a great player, so if you beat me in a game of madden, not sure what point you would be making. If I beat you, then what? What's in it for me? Bragging rights in a pissing contest?!

You're the one talking about seeing games, rather than playing them, you're the one talkng about nintendo's lack of polish, but you don't list anything to back up your comments. You're the one with the problem, not me.

There are a ton of liars and misinformed posters on message boards. But, I wouldn't comment on Halo 2 until I'd beaten it, just because of clowns like you who would claim I hadn't played the game.

I'll pass on your infantile challenge. I don't play to win, I play for fun and if you check my posts, I've said that consistently. Whether you're a better gamer than me, well, I could care less and beating someone doesn't mean they haven't played the game. As it is, you wouldn't know that you were really playing against me and vice versa. These types of challenges are useless if winning is the only object.


A whole bunch of yack just to say no. The challenge isn't to beat you in the game (I'm not the greatest gamer ever) I'm to the point where I don't believe you have the games you say you do. Deny it all you want you may be telling the truth it's just your way of running down games that make me doubt you.And you nonsense claims about xbox live that aren't true. Yadda yadda.

SMS wasn't polished everything from the tectures to the pituful cinemas to the menu screen the game wasn't polished. In fact compare it to something like R&C and maybe you'll see what I mean.

As for misinformed posters you are one of them. How much nonsense was you spewing about the 360 lack of a HDD. The nonsense you just spewed about condemened a FPS? Ok maybe you're of the mindset that anything in the FP is a Shooter whatever. Or the one you are still sticking to the lack of BC because they haven't spoken much about it yet. I guess that's the same logic you used to say that Bungie wasn't doing much with the SP portion of Halo 2.

Your overall negativity toward the Xbox and especially MS just makes me think that you never owned it at all. You had the system for 3 yrs and ran to this Messagboard to berade it and the company who sold it accomlished what. Even I sometimes post in the PS2 forum. When have you ever got involved in any worthwhile conversation about any Xbox game. Yet you owned it for 3 years? Geddafugouddahere! You're becoming a bigger joke with a keystroke!

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Holy crap.

You're missing my original point, which is, how can people claim that Nintendo isn't innovative when both Sony and Microsoft are incorporating Nintendo's innovation from THIS GENERATION? Both M$ and Sony are using wireless controllers in the next-gen as standard, which Nintendo started THIS generation.

I'm not talking about 20 years or 10 years or 5 years ago.

But, please share with me what "several other companies" have contributed to the vg industry?

Sega started a online gaming service. MS feature packed it and made more vialbe. Sony has basically single handedly pushed gaming into the mainstream. They also inovated a dual analogue set up. They were the first to give console's multimedia features out the box.
MS bought the idea of HDD to consoles and there mores but I guess in your Shiggy P.J.'s if it aint Ninty it just AINT.

No Nintendo did not make cordless controllers standard the wave bird is not standard. It's just a periphial. Mad catz had cordless controllers for the PSone.

[trebor]

Sega started a online gaming service. MS feature packed it and made more vialbe. Sony has basically single handedly pushed gaming into the mainstream. They also inovated a dual analogue set up. They were the first to give console's multimedia features out the box.
MS bought the idea of HDD to consoles and there mores but I guess in your Shiggy P.J.'s if it aint Ninty it just AINT.

No Nintendo did not make cordless controllers standard the wave bird is not standard. It's just a periphial. Mad catz had cordless controllers for the PSone.

Online gaming services have been around for a while, ask Blizzard if you don't believe me. M$ simply streamlined it for consoles and implemented it well.

If you don't think that the NES single-handedly not only saved the VG industry in the 80s but pushed it into the mainstream, then well, you're a crackhead.

I'll give you Sony improving upon Ninty's analog stick by introducing the dual analog controller.

I'll give M$ bringing HDD's to consoles, but they hardly invented the HDD, now did they?

Heres the thing, even though System Wars is hyper-competitive and everything, it doesn't mean that only one company can be innovative. Nintendo innovation doesn't detract from Sony innovation, or vise versa - that's just a stupid mentality anyways. That's also one of the points I'm trying to allude to - one company being innovative doesn't take innovation away from it's competition.

In fact, one might even argue that competition stimulates innovation, so you can take that Nintendo PJs comment and shove it where the sun don't shine.

[theWacoKid]

A whole bunch of yack just to say no. The challenge isn't to beat you in the game (I'm not the greatest gamer ever) I'm to the point where I don't believe you have the games you say you do. Deny it all you want you may be telling the truth it's just your way of running down games that make me doubt you.And you nonsense claims about xbox live that aren't true. Yadda yadda.

SMS wasn't polished everything from the tectures to the pituful cinemas to the menu screen the game wasn't polished. In fact compare it to something like R&C and maybe you'll see what I mean.

As for misinformed posters you are one of them. How much nonsense was you spewing about the 360 lack of a HDD. The nonsense you just spewed about condemened a FPS? Ok maybe you're of the mindset that anything in the FP is a Shooter whatever. Or the one you are still sticking to the lack of BC because they haven't spoken much about it yet. I guess that's the same logic you used to say that Bungie wasn't doing much with the SP portion of Halo 2.

Your overall negativity toward the Xbox and especially MS just makes me think that you never owned it at all. You had the system for 3 yrs and ran to this Messagboard to berade it and the company who sold it accomlished what. Even I sometimes post in the PS2 forum. When have you ever got involved in any worthwhile conversation about any Xbox game. Yet you owned it for 3 years? Geddafugouddahere! You're becoming a bigger joke with a keystroke!

You're an idiot. And you're typing so fast, every second word is misspelled. I never stated the 360 wouldn't have a hd, dufus, the reports were that two versions were to be released and I stated emphatically, that the only one to buy would be the hard drive version so blow it out your rear that I lied. Refuted.

Condemned involves first person shooting, so what would you call it? First person adventure, you're mincing hairs. First person combat game, whatever.

SMS wasn't polished because of textures and cinemas?! Man, are you a shallow gamer! I'm not a big fan of the game, but there was certainly a ton to do in this game, much more than an R&C game. And the gameplay is polished even if the camera system is a pain and gameplay polish is a hell of a lot more important than cinemas, although entertaining, you're not going to repeatedly watch.

And so, what have I lied about with xbox live?

You're an xbox stooge along with glock and masked goober and guys like you make me feel ashamed I even owned an xbox. Don't try and even defend those two. Glock is still some grade schooler yelling kittycube and TMG is a hopeless poser of a gamer, an utter joke imo. And you tag along like a lttle lap dog. On top of which you're a bunch of gutless whiners looking to get me kicked off the board by crying foul to the mods some talentless hack players on a basketball court, complained they got fouled, because you can't handle the truth. You want to talk about jokes, now, that's a joke, and I noticed how you're not claiming the metaphor thing anymore, lol.

[Fivespot]

Trebor makes some great points when discussing how Nintendo has innovated the game industry. They have also been here the longest when looking at the current big 3 to further back his point. Meaning, they created most genres we all enjoy today with respect to console gaming.

Recently, Sony and MS have introduced some nice features, Dual Analog, HDD, Better online gaming functionality, voice chat during online gaming, & the eyetoy (sorry if I missed any).

But Nintendo has most certainly lead the innovation charge considering longevity, new game types introduced, and most standard features were created by them (as stated by Trebor previously).

Hard to argue with that without looking mighty foolish. And then to rip on Glock & the Masked Gamer when they aren't even here posting in this thread just because someone completely unrelated is posting irrational nonsense.

This is sinking to new lows. I like coming here to talk about the games and systems with some debate and criticism, but threads are really being poisoned by fanboyism with no objectionable comments or thoughts. If its not {insert console here} it sucks. Ok - great point :confused:

[Gadfly2317]

I see Nintendo more of like the Xerox of the early 80's - they had the innovation to create the GUI system that is used in every single computer we use today, but they lacked the business sense to develop it and profit from it.

Great thread, Trebor. One thing though, I DO think they've had the business sense to profit from all this innovation. Even with their shrinking system #'s in this current competive, changing and adult-leaning market, they are still the most profitable of the three companies. Nintendo is ONLY a games division. MS's games division is a money loser by the billions, and even though Sony's games division had more over all revenue, Nintendo still had the most profit. I don't have the link anymore, but it was a busniess analyst site I cited in a thread I posted a couple months ago.

I can't wait to see for real what they've done with the Revolution; I don't understand gamers here who are supposedly hardcore and follow gaming over the years and yet aren't at least optimistically curious. I could be disapointed because I've learned to have high expecations of Nintendo, but a few failures aside, they usually meet or excede my expecations. . . .I'm currently a drooling DS vegetable and only expect to become more so; if they can put that kind of originality into the Revolution, expect some extremely fresh and groundbreaking games. Quality and Originality really will become WAY more important to me than quantity. I fully plan to buy fewer titles in the future, which makes the Revolution that much more appealing to me. I ONLY want to play the most innovative and original titles next gen. I'm not interested in getting a well rounded library with "a few shooters, a few racers, a few fighters and a few platformers." I want the Culdcepts, the Katamaris, The Pikmins, the Amplitudes of the next generation, and we all know those genre-defying original kind of games will only show up on Ps3 and Revolution. . . but in Revolution's case, with potential dramatic changes to control scheme, the potential seems real that it may actually BE a Revolution.

I hope they don't fail. Failed revolutionary's rightly get hanged as traitors.

[Brendon]

Hmm, quickie list of game genres gamers enjoy today:

RTS
FPS
Platformer
Fighting Game
Sports
Racing Game
Tactical Combat
Console-style RPG
PC Style RPG
Action RPG
Puzzle Game
Lightgun Games

Platformers as we know it may have been created by Nintendo with Super Mario, though I can't really say for sure. But there were a lot of older platformer games before Mario Bros (not Super) like Conan The Barbarian on the old Apple PCs and I'm sure there were tons of them on the Atari as well. I think Lightgun games started with Duckhunt though, and I think that was Nintendo.

I think most of the other game genres were created by other companies. RTS was created by Westwood Studios I think, FPS by iD, fighting game... hmm Capcom? Or does Karate Championship count as a fighting game? I think that was a Nintendo game. :) Action RPG might have started with Zelda.

Jap RPGs come from Dragon Warrior I think, or maybe Final Fantasy. Dunno. Tactical/SRPGs were Quest. PC Style RPG started with Wasteland. Puzzles? Tetris? Dunno.

Lots of genres are all but dead though, like the side scrolling shooter, adventure game, etc.

That said, I agree that Nintendo is still an innovative company, and nobody has any business saying they aren't.
Just a point - the FPS was originally done by Atari with Battlezone
the RTS was defined by Herog Zui (although I don't know who made it)
Platformers as we know them (involving multi-teired platforms) were started by Donkey Kong
And Karate Champ was the first one on one, Kung fu master the first scrolling and Yi-ar-Kung fu the first variation based fighting game.

[Zilla Man]

Online gaming services have been around for a while, ask Blizzard if you don't believe me. M$ simply streamlined it for consoles and implemented it well.

If you don't think that the NES single-handedly not only saved the VG industry in the 80s but pushed it into the mainstream, then well, you're a crackhead.

I'll give you Sony improving upon Ninty's analog stick by introducing the dual analog controller.

I'll give M$ bringing HDD's to consoles, but they hardly invented the HDD, now did they?

Heres the thing, even though System Wars is hyper-competitive and everything, it doesn't mean that only one company can be innovative. Nintendo innovation doesn't detract from Sony innovation, or vise versa - that's just a stupid mentality anyways. That's also one of the points I'm trying to allude to - one company being innovative doesn't take innovation away from it's competition.

In fact, one might even argue that competition stimulates innovation, so you can take that Nintendo PJs comment and shove it where the sun don't shine.

System Wars isn't hypersensitive, uber Xbots are! :rolleyes:

Let's face it, Trebor, you're wasting your breath. Talking about something creative like innovation to Xbots like Drunken and Masked is like trying to talk to the GRand Dragon of the KKK about Diversity in the Workplace.... :p

No, I take that back, the Grand Dragon would at least understand you. Masked Gamer and Drunken seem to operate in a delusional pocket universe where using logic, stats, and facts to back up your argument just doesn't apply.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

System Wars isn't hypersensitive, uber Xbots are! :rolleyes:

Let's face it, Trebor, you're wasting your breath. Talking about something creative like innovation to Xbots like Drunken and Masked is like trying to talk to the GRand Dragon of the KKK about Diversity in the Workplace.... :p

No, I take that back, the Grand Dragon would at least understand you. Masked Gamer and Drunken seem to operate in a delusional pocket universe where using logic, stats, and facts to back up your argument just doesn't apply.

Get off my DEEEYAAAK! This thread is unbelievable. Nintendo invented the Platformer?Did Donkey Kong come before Pitfall on the 2600? Nintendo has had huge impact on the industry (and I've said that through out the thread) but the fact remains someone always came and did there hardware innovation's better and they're gameplay innovations is negliable at best. The most innovative thing they have done for gameplay was analogue control (and maybe the lock on used in the first Zelda). They didn't even orginate the booty bump.

You guys want to jump all over me because I prefer the xbox and don't Kow tow to the glory that is Nintendo and Sony well go ahead. There are different ways to be innovative you can innovate within an established genre or you can go out and creat an ugly crap playing and sounding game like Katamari. Or hell you can base your whole console around a flop idea (let's hear it again for connectivity) or something else like gyroscopic controllers. That sounds like back in the day when people used to play there games and to jump in Super mario they would make this crazy arm swinging gestures with there arms.

Open minded! You haters have dogged the 360 at every chance and even when the faults you twats have pointed out turned out to be wrong you come up with more B.S. speculation you guys are really funny.

What was the last GC game anybody on this board bought? But somehow it will be different next gen when Nintendo "innovates" so much that they will probably alienate all 3rd party support. Has Nintendo even published a game this year? Yet it's Microsoft who is killing the console off?

Finally all this talk of the Sony's depth of library but when it comes down to it what games are the biggest sellers on the system? The same ole Shi+ that has been coming out for years! You guys act like these artsy fartsy games you always bring up here move the system. That's like me saying I bought an Xbox for Oddworld's and Psychonaught, Kung fu chaos! Sure they may help round out the console but they are hardly indicative of the consoles library.

[Horngreen]

I think they have been innovative hardware wise but what kills them is their dependance on tired intellectual properties such as Mario. Just because they may have a cool new controller does not mean everybody wants to use it to bounce off Yoshis head again. Fix this problem and you've fixed Nintendo.

[Gadfly2317]

I think they have been innovative hardware wise but what kills them is their dependance on tired intellectual properties such as Mario. Just because they may have a cool new controller does not mean everybody wants to use it to bounce off Yoshis head again. Fix this problem and you've fixed Nintendo.

It's always possible you fix the problem and kill Nintendo too. . . lotta fans want more Mario, even if it is a shrinking fanbase.

But they have GOT to fix the problem by doing both. Put out the token online-Mario Kart, Mario Platformer and SSBM-online to launch in a draw in the old fans, but then move on to develop NEW first party games.

I have hope they are doing this because of stuff like Another Code on the DS. . . it looks like a real departure for them stylistically, though no one expects them to abandon their philosophy of creating all-ages fun games rather than going for extreme violence or the stale realism sought after by games like Splinter Cell and Gran Turismo.

[Mochan]

And Karate Champ was the first one on one, Kung fu master the first scrolling and Yi-ar-Kung fu the first variation based fighting game.

Are you sure it's Kugnfu master? I thought it would have been Karateka.

If you don't think that the NES single-handedly not only saved the VG industry in the 80s but pushed it into the mainstream, then well, you're a crackhead.

I don't think the NES did it. I think the FamiCom did it!
</rimshot>

[trebor]

System Wars isn't hypersensitive, uber Xbots are! :rolleyes:

Let's face it, Trebor, you're wasting your breath. Talking about something creative like innovation to Xbots like Drunken and Masked is like trying to talk to the GRand Dragon of the KKK about Diversity in the Workplace.... :p

No, I take that back, the Grand Dragon would at least understand you. Masked Gamer and Drunken seem to operate in a delusional pocket universe where using logic, stats, and facts to back up your argument just doesn't apply.

To be fair, I don't believe MaskedGamer has actually posted in this thread, but somehow he was brought up in the pissing match between Waco and Drunkenthumbguy, along with Glock - whom all of you know to be my favorite Xbot around here. ;)