XBOX 360 Specs

[Fivespot]

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/factsheet.htm

I also posted these within the Unofficial XBOX 360 thread but thought I'd start a thread to just review and discuss them exclusively. Here they are:

Xbox 360 System Performance Specifications

Custom IBM PowerPC-based CPU Three symmetrical cores running at 3.2 GHz each
Two hardware threads per core; six hardware threads total
VMX-128 vector unit per core; three total
128 VMX-128 registers per hardware thread
1 MB L2 cache

CPU Game Math Performance 9 billion dot product operations per second

Custom ATI Graphics Processor 10 MB of embedded DRAM
48-way parallel floating-point dynamically scheduled shader pipelines
Unified shader architecture

Polygon Performance 500 million triangles per second

Pixel Fill Rate 16 gigasamples per second fill rate using 4x MSAA

Shader Performance 48 billion shader operations per second

Memory 512 MB of 700 MHz GDDR3 RAM
Unified memory architecture

Memory Bandwidth 22.4 GB/s memory interface bus bandwidth
256 GB/s memory bandwidth to EDRAM
21.6 GB/s front-side bus

Overall System Floating-Point Performance 1 teraflop

Storage Detachable and upgradeable 20GB hard drive
12x dual-layer DVD-ROM
Memory Unit support starting at 64 MB

I/O Support for up to four wireless game controllers
Three USB 2.0 ports
Two memory unit slots

Optimized for Online Instant, out-of-the-box access to Xbox Live features with broadband service, including Xbox Live Marketplace for downloadable content, gamer profile for digital identity, and voice chat to talk to friends while playing games, watching movies, or listening to music
Built-in Ethernet port
Wi-Fi ready: 802.11a, 802.11b, and 802.11g
Video camera ready

Digital Media Support Support for DVD-Video, DVD-ROM, DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, CD-DA, CD-ROM, CD-R, CD-RW, WMA CD, MP3 CD, JPEG Photo CD • Ability to stream media from portable music devices, digital cameras and Windows XP-based PCs
Ability to rip music to the Xbox 360 hard drive
Custom playlists in every game
Built-in Media Center Extender for Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005
Interactive, full-screen 3-D visualizers

High-Definition Game Support All games supported at 16:9, 720p, and 1080i, anti-aliasing
Standard-definition and high-definition video output supported

Audio Multi-channel surround sound output
Supports 48KHz 16-bit audio
320 independent decompression channels
32-bit audio processing
Over 256 audio channels

System Orientation Stands vertically or horizontally

Customizable Face Plates Interchangeable to personalize the console

Availability: Holiday 2005

Ring of Light and Xbox Guide Button: Divided into four quadrants, the glowing Ring of Light and Xbox® Guide Button visually connect you to your games, digital media, and the world of Xbox Live™, the first global, unified online console games service. Featured on both the wireless and wired controllers, the Xbox Guide Button puts you in control of your experience. In addition to bringing up the Xbox Gamer Guide and the Xbox System Guide, the Xbox Guide Button lets you turn the system on and off without ever leaving the couch.
Xbox Live: Xbox Live is where games and entertainment come alive, the only unified place where you can play with anyone, anytime, anywhere. And the best just got better. Connect your Xbox 360 to your broadband connection and get instant access to Xbox Live Silver. Express your digital identity through your Gamertag and gamer card, talk with others using voice chat, and access Xbox Live Marketplace—all right out of the box, at no extra cost. Upgrade to Xbox Live Gold and enter the exciting world of multiplayer online gaming. With intelligent matchmaking, access to all your achievements and statistics, video chat and video messaging, and an enormous selection of games, Xbox Live Gold delivers your competition, on your terms.
Xbox Live Marketplace: Keep your favorite games fresh with instant access to new content. Xbox Live Marketplace is a one-stop shop to download new game trailers, demos, and episodic content, plus new game levels, maps, weapons, vehicles, skins, and more. Accessible to everyone who establishes a broadband connection with their Xbox 360, Xbox Live Marketplace lets you personalize and extend your experience, on demand.
Games: Xbox 360 redefines what games look like, sound like, feel like, and play like to engage you like never before. With Xbox 360, epic worlds are alive with detail, from thunderous skies rumbling over a mountain range to tiny blades of grass rustling together in the breeze. Vibrant characters display depth of emotion to evoke more dramatic responses, immersing you in the experience like never before. You’ll see all Xbox 360 titles at 720p resolution in 16:9 widescreen, with anti-aliasing for smooth, movie-like graphics and multi-channel surround sound.
Digital entertainment: Amplify your music, photos, video, and TV. Watch progressive-scan DVD movies right out of the box. Rip music to the Xbox 360 hard drive and share your latest digital pictures with friends. Make the connection, and Xbox 360 instantly streams the digital media stored on your MP3 player, digital camera, Media Center PC, or any Microsoft® Windows® XP-based PC.

[Mochan]

I seem to recall seeing (and reacting to) this feature list in another thread.

[Fivespot]

Here's more info:

Xbox Live Camera
The Xbox Live Camera for Xbox 360 opens up a new world of gaming and entertainment on Xbox Live, the world’s premier online video games service. With the Xbox Live Camera, video chat and video messaging with your friends becomes more than just a feature set; it is an integrated part of the Xbox Live experience. Connect and communicate while playing the same or different games, watching movies, listening to music, and more.

The Xbox Live Camera also takes personalization to a whole new level and allows you to customize your gaming experience by putting your face on characters in your games, all while being able to video chat with your friends as you play online. And with next-generation online motion-detection-enabled games, the Xbox Live Camera puts you entirely in the game and in control of the on-screen characters over Xbox Live.

High-end online camera supports up to VGA 640x480 video at 30 frames per second and takes 1.3-megapixel still photos.
The camera includes a microphone that connects to the controller, so everyone in the room can chat online with their friends.
The camera supports built-in video chat and video messaging on Xbox Live.
Your face can be imported into games and can also be placed next to your name on leader boards for even more recognition or fame.
Chat with your friends while you play online in Xbox 360 games as well as in the Xbox Live Arcade.
Xbox 360 Headset
The Xbox 360 Headset heightens the experience of the unprecedented online gaming community, Xbox Live, allowing you to strategize with teammates, trash-talk opponents or just chat with friends while playing your favorite games. You can record and leave short voice messages for friends or family through the free Xbox Live Message Service or connect with buddies online using the headset in place of the phone. Turn it up or turn it down, and experience the most intense gaming experience possible.

Boom microphone can be adjusted for optimal sound quality.
In-line volume control and mute switch let users adjust the headset volume or switch mute on and off easily.
Noise-canceling microphone improves game response to voice commands, and provides crisp and clear voice communication.
Lightweight, over-the-head design enables comfortable use.
The headset plugs directly into either the Xbox 360 Controller or Xbox Wireless Controller for easy use.
Xbox 360 Wireless Network Adapter
Designed for versatility and ease, the Xbox 360 Wireless Network Adapter enhances your Xbox 360 experience in the digital home, seamlessly synchronizing with the Xbox 360 system. You can easily transfer videos and music to your Xbox 360 system from your Media Center PC, chat with your friends, play games via Xbox Live, and more—all without the clutter of wires.

The Xbox 360 Wireless Network Adapter is highly versatile and supports 802.11b, 802.11g, and 802.11a.
The Xbox 360 Wireless Network Adapter is powered seamlessly by your Xbox 360 gaming console, so there's no external power adapter to plug in.
You can transfer high-definition video and CD-quality music from your Media Center PC to your Xbox 360 via 802.11a wireless media support.
Xbox 360 Wireless Controller
High-performance wireless gaming is here! Using optimized technology, the Xbox 360 Wireless Controller lets you enjoy a 30-foot range and up to 40 hours of life on two AA batteries—and when they run low, you're given ample warning so you can connect a Play & Charge cable for uninterrupted play. Plug the Xbox 360 Headset into the controller for full duplex voice communication: a wireless first. With quick access to Xbox 360 features including DVDs, music, pictures, and more, along with the ability to support four wireless controllers simultaneously, gamers can experience wireless freedom, precision, high quality, and performance for endless gameplay.

It's cordless—no cables to plug in—with a 30-foot wireless range.
The controller features integrated 2.4GHz high-performance wireless technology.
New and improved ergonomic design enables maximum comfort and endless gameplay.
New left and right shoulder buttons are designed for ease of use.
Two analog pressure-point triggers, two vibration feedback motors, and one eight-way directional pad are included.
Experience an unprecedented level of Rumble Control. Set the Rumble Control to Full, Medium, Low, or Off to match your personal preference.
The Xbox Guide Button at the center of the controller gives you quick access to all your favorite Xbox 360 system activities, such as watching movies, listening to music, contacting friends on Xbox Live, and customizing your gaming experiences. Easily jump to the Xbox Gamer Guide or Xbox Live Marketplace.
Xbox 360 Controller
Based on the acclaimed design of the Xbox Controller S, the Xbox 360 Controller features an extended nine-foot cable and an improved ergonomic design. The centralized, glowing Xbox Guide Button grants you quick access to your digital movie, music, and games libraries. The ultimate in gamer flexibility, precision, control, quality, and comfort are all yours.

New and improved ergonomic design enables maximum comfort and endless gameplay.
New left and right shoulder buttons are designed for ease of use.
Six analog buttons have 256 levels of sensitivity.
Two analog pressure-point triggers, two vibration feedback motors, and one eight-way directional pad are included.
The controller includes a nine-foot (nearly three-meter) break-away controller cable.
Experience an unprecedented level of Rumble Control. Set the Rumble Control to Full, Medium, Low, or Off to match your personal preference.
A port for your Xbox 360 Headset is included.
The Xbox Guide Button at the center of the controller gives you quick access to all your favorite Xbox 360 system activities, such as watching movies, listening to music, contacting friends on Xbox Live, and customizing your gaming experiences. Easily jump to the Xbox Gamer Guide or Xbox Live Marketplace.

http://www.xbox.com/en-US/xbox360/peripheralsfactsheet.htm

[Superjoint Ritual]

I seem to recall seeing (and reacting to) this feature list in another thread. Yeah... Me too..... Oh wait, I started that thread! :rolleyes:

Of course, thewacokid did it much better than I did... :D

[Fivespot]

I seem to recall seeing (and reacting to) this feature list in another thread.

D'oh, I didn't realize this had all been discussed previously. But alas, now I see that other thread.

I found the specs online and immediately posted.

[Superjoint Ritual]

D'oh, I didn't realize this had all been discussed previously. But alas, now I see that other thread.

I found the specs online and immediately posted.Eh.... It probably needed it's own thread anyway.

Some of the third party games look pretty sweet... I just can't get over how awful PD0 looks... :o

[Mochan]

Well, I didn't mean to be one of those nagger posters that go "OLD!" whenever someone posts something that was posted before.

Going back to those leaked specs, this fact sheet is clearer on some things. Of interest is is the 4x MSAA. This means that antialiasing will be done with 4 samples, this basically means "good bye jaggies." Having that as the default AA setting and having hi-resolution means that all the games will look godly compared to the previous gen.

The reason why I sometimes barf when playing PS2 games was the ultra row les and jaggies. XBox wasn't much better. This is because I got used to playing at more than twice the res with AA on the PC. This reaction will be a thing of the past... for now.

There's another factsheet posted there that I didn't read before. It's freaking long though and it's more about features rather than specs.

Oh, and to start off this discussion, here's the post I made in the other thread, for reference.


If those stats really are true, that's gonna be one hell of a powerful console. It's about 10 times stronger than my current PC, though with less memory.

3 cores means basically that it has 3 processors. Since it's clocked at 3.2 Ghz each, that would be like having three 3.2 Northwood prescott Intel CPUs with HT. It has 2 threads per core, so that would make it similar to having dual channel memory, meaning there are 6 paths total from the processing units to the memory.. no wonder it has a blazing 22.4GB/s memory bus. For comparison, PCs of the last gen only typically have something like 6.4GB/s.

I'm not sure what 10MB DRAM is supposed to be for. It already has 512MB DDR3.

It has a 1MB L2 cache, which is sort of like a place for data to come in before going into the CPU proper. Modern PCs today with Athlon 64 3200s or better and Prescott Pentiums 3.2 and up only have this much l2 cache, my PC 3 gens old only has 256kb L2 cache.

I am abit confused as to what the video processing unit is. Is it that VNX-128 vector thing? Does that mean it has 3 GPU units? 9 billiondots per second is pretty fast, my Radeon 9800 Pro can only do 3 billion dots per second.

21.6GB/FSB is incredible, my FSB only goes up to 3.2GB/s

What's MNz though? Meganertz?

Sound card is pretty primitive though, at only 16-bit since most PCs today are equipped with Audigy 2 ZS-class cards that are 24-bit. The number of channels though is mindboggling, if not silly. 256?! Audigies only go up to 64. What do you need 256 discreet channels for?

[Fivespot]

Cool. I was hoping for a breakdown on those specs from one of the res PC gamers who know more about that type of thing.

I'm glad to hear the jaggies may be a thing of the past. Talk about ruining the immersion factor in games - that always did it for me.

The sound does seem a little weak by comparison.

Regarding the controller, whats with 256 levels of sensitivity in 6 buttons? Isn't 100-125 enough :D Seriously though, I wonder how many levels of sensitivity current controllers have. I know they have some but 256, wow (i think).

The online capabilities will be nice. I'm not sure I want my mug on the screen for video chat during games however. I don't necessarily need social interaction like that when I'm trying to kick back and play. Hell, some times I don't even talk much while online gaming. Hopefully the vid feature doesn't get used that way too often if at all. Having the ability to video chat is nice just not during the middle of a game session like a PIP type deal.

[Mochan]

Well, to make you feel better, a typical human can't tell the difference between 16bit or 24bit sound. Most people can't even tell the difference between a CD track and mp3 playing. Don't worry about the sound, and in fact it is superior in terms of unique sound channels available (4 times as much!) although I highly doubt any game will ever use all 256 channels.

One thing that always peeved me about XBox (and certain PC games) is the mentality of "custom sound track." I mean, if all you have is some brainless arcade-like game that just plays some tracks randomly in the background I see the use, but if you're playing cinematic games or anything remotely resembling a script, proper music, cues, etc. is vital. One of the things I hated about Morrowind was its piss poor music and the fact that an RPG dared to have nothing but a random playlist for music. Scripted music is where it's at IMO.

Jaggies will definitely hit the road if all the games play at HDTV res (about 1920x1080) at 4x AA. Even playing at 1280x720 at 4x will be enough to reduce jaggies to negligible status. For reference, I usually play games at 1024x768 at 2x AA and they look great already. Sometimes I can pump certain games up to 1280x1024 which is the highest my monitor can go, at 4x AA and it looks sweet. Imagine Halo 2 or Doom 3 on an XBox, only looking better in every way.

Imagine if every single game plays on 1920x1080 at 4xAA!!!!

256 levels of sensitivity also sounds absurd to me. Even more absurd than 256 sound channels. It would take a genius player with Dexterity of God to make use of such pressure sensitivity. I mean, in Zone of Enders 2 I only used 2 levels of sensitivty for "normal attack" and "fierce attack." As in, press button normally, and press button really hard!

Another thing that got my attention was the customizable face plates. This is a feature any PC enthusiast would want, as modding one's beloved hardware is practically a sport in the PC domain. It will be interesting to see how this mentality develops with console gamers. Especially considering how ugly I found the Xbox360 leaked picture, it's a welcome note.

I also wonder if MS will have plans to release XBox360 versions of Far Cry or even Half Life 2 and Doom 3? They would play perfectly, just the way they were meant to look on those specs.

[Renzatic Gear]

The only problem with multicore systems is that they're an absolute ***** to program for. Think of the PS2 and the problems developers had getting the processor work with the emotion engine, it's the same situation.

Most of the time when a company throws multiple processors into a system, very few people ever find a way to take advantage of it. It usually ends up only being good for showing off theoretical max performance on a spec sheet and nothing more.

[Mochan]

I hear ya Renz. While most all games will still benefit from the extra cores, actually bringing them out to their full potential is a totally different matter.

Another example would be Sli card arrays. Slis look great on paper and theoretically can do a lot more than a single GPU, but the game needs to be written properly to really take advantage of the setup.

Another thing I'm concerned with is the cooling for this. It'll take one hell of a cooling job to keep all that cool. I'm afraid these next gen consoles will overheat over in my country. I read somewhere around here that we'll be seeing watercooling for this? That's really awfully risky (not to mention potentially noisy, and you have to keep changing the water every now and then) and I know how you feel about watercooling, Renz.

[Renzatic Gear]

Eh, I doubt any of the big companies will be requiring watercooling for their consoles...too much risk of a hose popping and hosing the systems, specially in a space as tight as that. They'll probably be using some heavy duty heatsinks plus some huge ass fans. Either that or they've underclocked the hell out of those chips so they don't run as hot...I dunno.

Considering all the hardware touted, 4 G5's, a Fudo R520 variant ATI card, plus DDR3 and all that extra jazz..there's no way in hell MS is gonna be able to price that thing under $300 without undercutting themselves by a HUGE margin.

[Fivespot]

IGN listed the XBOX 360 with a $299 price at its release. Thats alot of coin but I suppose with all the other media options I can justify the cost (if I utilize all that extra stuff).

I'll have to pick-up a better HDTV in the near future - I miss not having a DVI hook-up.

[Mochan]

I don't think they can use huge-ass fans. That 360 doesn't look big enough to have a 120mm fan, and I don't see an exhaust for one. I definitely find the watercooling talk to be dubitable, what I'm thinking is they'll be resorting to heatpipes galore to bring the all the heat from the different CPU and GPU units to an outersink with a nice fan on it. Doubt it'll be a 120mm but who knows?

And the pricing is truly too suspicious. An R520 card alone should cost $300 already. We're not even to the processor yet.

[Renzatic Gear]

But heatpipes take up alot of space from what I've seen, the Xbox 2 is fairly big, but not that big. Really the only problem is, considering how Sony and MS love to cut corners (and probably have to because of price), I expect the newer consoles are gonna be breaking down alot due to heating issues.

You can also kinda tell that we're heading towards a graphical plateau here. Usually when a new console comes out it's able to outpace the PC for about a year or so, this time they're gonna be neck and neck despite the fact that, other than the graphics card, the consoles will have faster hardware under the hood.

I'd say that in about 5 years or so the upgrade game is gonna slow down considerably.

[Mochan]

IGN listed the XBOX 360 with a $299 price at its release. Thats alot of coin but I suppose with all the other media options I can justify the cost (if I utilize all that extra stuff).

You have to realize that $299 is an absolute steal for this kind of hardware.

512MB of DDR700?
512MB of DDR400 costs some $40 already.

R520 GPU?
An R480 GPU costs like $350.

Triple Core processor?
A dual core Athlon costs some $800

We haven't even gotten to the 2.4Ghz wireless tech, 12x DVD drive, 802.11g WiFi or the mainboard itself (a mobo to run the components priced above runs at some $150 or so).

Hard disk seems overpriced though. You have to add $100 for a crappy 20GB harddisk? You can buy 160GB SATA 7200 HDs for that price.

[Mochan]

Heatpipes don't have to take a lot of space. Shuttle XPCs with small form factor use heatpipes to transport the heat from the CPU to a sink planted on the side wall with a fan blowing on it. They can use simialr techniques to cool these next gen consoles.

I'm rather expecting something like this, because these next gen consoles probably won't be too big (the Xbox360 looks pretty small) and there's no way they can cool all of those hot components down by just placing a conventional sink cooling setup since they won't have much airflow to work with inside those cases.

I too am expecting hardware breakdowns due to heat issues. I'm especially wary of this since the climate is very warm where I live. Heck, European cars overheat on our roads all the time, so I'm really scared. The PS3 and Nintendo at least will probably be engineered to suit my climate better (they come from Japan after all and they have really hot summers there too) but the Xbox2 is iffy.

And I sure how the upgrade game slows down soon. It's not healthy for my wallet!

[ThaMaskedGamer]

This are awesome system specs. People expecting the other console manufacturers to offer substantially more are deluding themselves. So, it seems people were incorrect and aren't man enough to stand-up and say so. It appears the until will include a detachable 20G HD, that can be upgraded later. It appears the unit will be b/c out of the box, two things which speculation here killed the unit over.

Now, it appears people are mad because MS and Nvidia won't play together and these same people can't buy an older XBOX. Its funny, all this time they had to buy an XBOX, and now they want to buy one when the new system comes out. Don't be fooled by this fake interest, these people are just haters spreading propoganda. MS had to pay Nvidia and Intel royalties for each XBOX sold, now they don't have to pay anyone since they designed the whole system.

If $299 is the price point, Sony is in for a serious budget tightening. That kind of price is going to really put pressure on the PS3. Now, I see why an industry analyst said he expects MS to take over the lead with 38% share to Sony 32% after this generation. Sony is going to launch with an incredible sticker, just watch.

For those people who think PS3 will be able to do something XBOX 360 can't, aside from play blu-ray movies, its not likely. The powerplant inside the XBOX 360, according to MS is going to be powerful enough to create any kind of gaming world. Sure PS3 might be more powerful, just like a 7 megapixel camera is more powerful than a 5 megapixel camera, but unless you are looking at pictures the size of posters, it won't matter, and just sometimes, depending on how you take the picture, a 5 megapixel can make better looking pictures.

Its all going to come down to the developers and how pretty they want the games to be and how talented they are, XBOX 360 will be able to push any kind of graphics at 720p or 1080I, be b/c, have a hd, all kinds of online and offline services and features, detachable cool azz face plates. And I LOVE the design of the system, it looks much better and tighter than I thought, the controllers look awesome. This system is going to be hard to beat.

A lot of people are complaining about Perfect Dark 0's graphics, well, this is RARE. And they haven't delivered yet for XBOX, we have all said it was a mistake to buy this company. But we will see just how well the game turns out, some shots of the game look damn good, but not anything next gen. However if you head over to IGN, there are some shots of other games that look absolutely incredible. Will they be launch games, I don't know, will they be here before PS3? I'd bet on it.

This is a great deal for gamers who want to buy a PS2 or XBOX this holiday season, just use that $150 toward the XBOX 360, instead of investing in old technology.

There are only two things left for the haters to complain about, 1) the lack of WI-FI out the box 2) the lack of support for Blu-Ray HD DVD. Other than that, the system is hot as hell, and Sony is in for a serious diet on the budget side. To include everything that XBOX 360 will have is going to murder Sony in red ink. And this is the real reason why Sony and Nintendo are mad at MS, MS is forcing them to step up their game and offer more at $300. We will see if they can do it.

[Hieremias]

The only thing that surprises me is the low RAM. I don't understand why a machine would come out with such massive processing power but only 512mb RAM. I have double that on my PC today, and this Xbox 360 is supposed to last for, what, 5 years? Will 512mb be enough 5 years from now? And given how cheap RAM is, why handicap the machine like this?

The Xbox's mere 64mb is what killed it, it's what ruined all those concurrently developed Xbox/PC titles (Deus Ex 2, Thief 3, Kotor). Such a small amount of memory seriously limited the size and detail of environments that developers could create.

Everything else though looks promising. I don't own a DVD player (have one in my computer) but plan to buy one since I'm moving into a new house and won't have the computer and TV in the same room. I've been thinking about getting an Xbox 360 for that. The lack of RAM does worry me though.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

This are awesome system specs. People expecting the other console manufacturers to offer substantially more are deluding themselves. So, it seems people were incorrect and aren't man enough to stand-up and say so. It appears the until will include a detachable 20G HD, that can be upgraded later. It appears the unit will be b/c out of the box, two things which speculation here killed the unit over.

Now, it appears people are mad because MS and Nvidia won't play together and these same people can't buy an older XBOX. Its funny, all this time they had to buy an XBOX, and now they want to buy one when the new system comes out. Don't be fooled by this fake interest, these people are just haters spreading propoganda. MS had to pay Nvidia and Intel royalties for each XBOX sold, now they don't have to pay anyone since they designed the whole system.

If $299 is the price point, Sony is in for a serious budget tightening. That kind of price is going to really put pressure on the PS3. Now, I see why an industry analyst said he expects MS to take over the lead with 38% share to Sony 32% after this generation. Sony is going to launch with an incredible sticker, just watch.

For those people who think PS3 will be able to do something XBOX 360 can't, aside from play blu-ray movies, its not likely. The powerplant inside the XBOX 360, according to MS is going to be powerful enough to create any kind of gaming world. Sure PS3 might be more powerful, just like a 7 megapixel camera is more powerful than a 5 megapixel camera, but unless you are looking at pictures the size of posters, it won't matter, and just sometimes, depending on how you take the picture, a 5 megapixel can make better looking pictures.

Its all going to come down to the developers and how pretty they want the games to be and how talented they are, XBOX 360 will be able to push any kind of graphics at 720p or 1080I, be b/c, have a hd, all kinds of online and offline services and features, detachable cool azz face plates. And I LOVE the design of the system, it looks much better and tighter than I thought, the controllers look awesome. This system is going to be hard to beat.

A lot of people are complaining about Perfect Dark 0's graphics, well, this is RARE. And they haven't delivered yet for XBOX, we have all said it was a mistake to buy this company. But we will see just how well the game turns out, some shots of the game look damn good, but not anything next gen. However if you head over to IGN, there are some shots of other games that look absolutely incredible. Will they be launch games, I don't know, will they be here before PS3? I'd bet on it.

This is a great deal for gamers who want to buy a PS2 or XBOX this holiday season, just use that $150 toward the XBOX 360, instead of investing in old technology.

There are only two things left for the haters to complain about, 1) the lack of WI-FI out the box 2) the lack of support for Blu-Ray HD DVD. Other than that, the system is hot as hell, and Sony is in for a serious diet on the budget side. To include everything that XBOX 360 will have is going to murder Sony in red ink. And this is the real reason why Sony and Nintendo are mad at MS, MS is forcing them to step up their game and offer more at $300. We will see if they can do it.

It's funny how none of the haters mentioned the HDD. There doesn't seem to be a multiple system plan either, hate on haters.

About PDO I've seen an played the Demo of Conker I've played GBBTG and if there is one thing I can tell you about PD0, it's those graphics aren't indicative of the final outcome of the game. You can say what you want about Rare's games but you can't say they don't do good graphics. I still remember how the first Halo got reemed at the E3 before the Xbox launch and we all see how that ended up.

The seperating feature from the Xbox and PS3 is going to be the features and services. But according to the milkdrinkers on this board Sony's will automatically be better because they are coming out a yr later (which probably wont even be a real year since it will be released in Japan first!).

I can't wait to see the reaction of the Sony faithful when the PS3 is launched with a bunch of *GASP* Xbox360 ports.

[Superjoint Ritual]

This are awesome system specs. People expecting the other console manufacturers to offer substantially more are deluding themselves. So, it seems people were incorrect and aren't man enough to stand-up and say so. It appears the until will include a detachable 20G HD, that can be upgraded later. It appears the unit will be b/c out of the box, two things which speculation here killed the unit over.

Now, it appears people are mad because MS and Nvidia won't play together and these same people can't buy an older XBOX. Its funny, all this time they had to buy an XBOX, and now they want to buy one when the new system comes out. Don't be fooled by this fake interest, these people are just haters spreading propoganda. MS had to pay Nvidia and Intel royalties for each XBOX sold, now they don't have to pay anyone since they designed the whole system.

If $299 is the price point, Sony is in for a serious budget tightening. That kind of price is going to really put pressure on the PS3. Now, I see why an industry analyst said he expects MS to take over the lead with 38% share to Sony 32% after this generation. Sony is going to launch with an incredible sticker, just watch.

For those people who think PS3 will be able to do something XBOX 360 can't, aside from play blu-ray movies, its not likely. The powerplant inside the XBOX 360, according to MS is going to be powerful enough to create any kind of gaming world. Sure PS3 might be more powerful, just like a 7 megapixel camera is more powerful than a 5 megapixel camera, but unless you are looking at pictures the size of posters, it won't matter, and just sometimes, depending on how you take the picture, a 5 megapixel can make better looking pictures.

Its all going to come down to the developers and how pretty they want the games to be and how talented they are, XBOX 360 will be able to push any kind of graphics at 720p or 1080I, be b/c, have a hd, all kinds of online and offline services and features, detachable cool azz face plates. And I LOVE the design of the system, it looks much better and tighter than I thought, the controllers look awesome. This system is going to be hard to beat.

A lot of people are complaining about Perfect Dark 0's graphics, well, this is RARE. And they haven't delivered yet for XBOX, we have all said it was a mistake to buy this company. But we will see just how well the game turns out, some shots of the game look damn good, but not anything next gen. However if you head over to IGN, there are some shots of other games that look absolutely incredible. Will they be launch games, I don't know, will they be here before PS3? I'd bet on it.

This is a great deal for gamers who want to buy a PS2 or XBOX this holiday season, just use that $150 toward the XBOX 360, instead of investing in old technology.

There are only two things left for the haters to complain about, 1) the lack of WI-FI out the box 2) the lack of support for Blu-Ray HD DVD. Other than that, the system is hot as hell, and Sony is in for a serious diet on the budget side. To include everything that XBOX 360 will have is going to murder Sony in red ink. And this is the real reason why Sony and Nintendo are mad at MS, MS is forcing them to step up their game and offer more at $300. We will see if they can do it. Is that you Bill ?

[Mochan]

There are only two things left for the haters to complain about, 1) the lack of WI-FI out the box 2) the lack of support for Blu-Ray HD DVD.

No, the real issue IMO is software support. I really don't care about WiFi or Blu Ray, I just want good games to play on my console. As far as I'm concerned, the real reason Xbot haters hate the Xbox is because it basically just has American PC games (and relatively crappy ones at that) on it.

And why am I not surprised someone just had to immediately post about the hate thing here just like that?

The only thing that surprises me is the low RAM. I don't understand why a machine would come out with such massive processing power but only 512mb RAM.

Yeah, I've said this before in other threads. 512MB is fitting only for a processor 4 times weaker than the one they posted. A CPU with that power needs *at least* 1GB to run at max efficiency.

I can't wait to see the reaction of the Sony faithful when the PS3 is launched with a bunch of *GASP* Xbox360 ports.

I don't see any reason why Sony would launch with XBox 360 ports.

I still remember how the first Halo got reemed at the E3 before the Xbox launch and we all see how that ended up.

I still say Halo is nothing but an average shooter. XBots just don't know better.

[Mochan]

If $299 is the price point, Sony is in for a serious budget tightening. That kind of price is going to really put pressure on the PS3. Now, I see why an industry analyst said he expects MS to take over the lead with 38% share to Sony 32% after this generation. Sony is going to launch with an incredible sticker, just watch.

One thing you have to consider is, assuming those system specs are true, the one being put on budget pressure isn't Sony, it's MS themselves. This serious price undercut is a double-edged sword, and frankly it does more damage to its user than its opponents.

Well, MS has deep pockets so I guess they can afford it but frankly they're practically handing money out to their consumers.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

No, the real issue IMO is software support. I really don't care about WiFi or Blu Ray, I just want good games to play on my console. As far as I'm concerned, the real reason Xbot haters hate the Xbox is because it basically just has American PC games (and relatively crappy ones at that) on it.

That's a point I'm willing to concede. But personally I don't think that's a bad thing. A lot of these PC games were opened up to the console players for the first time (successfully anyway) And you being a primary PC gamer just seem to not be able to get that for whatever reason most people rather play on consoles than a PC.


And why am I not surprised someone just had to immediately post about the hate thing here just like that?

You don't think this board has an exorborant amount of Xbox hate. While there is all kinds of unfounded optimism for the other console companies (PS3 will have a HDD, Nintendo will have a great a online plan etc)


Yeah, I've said this before in other threads. 512MB is fitting only for a processor 4 times weaker than the one they posted. A CPU with that power needs *at least* 1GB to run at max efficiency.

A console doesn't need the same amount of ram as a PC to get similar performance but more ram is never a bad thing I guess. Hell orginally the speculation was only 226MB of ram.


I don't see any reason why Sony would launch with XBox 360 ports.


Sony won't but 3rd parties will.

I still say Halo is nothing but an average shooter. XBots just don't know better.

I still say Halo is nothing but an great shooter. PC heads just don't know better :D

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

One thing you have to consider is, assuming those system specs are true, the one being put on budget pressure isn't Sony, it's MS themselves. This serious price undercut is a double-edged sword, and frankly it does more damage to its user than its opponents.

Well, MS has deep pockets so I guess they can afford it but frankly they're practically handing money out to their consumers.


The biggest factor in MS bleeding of money was the royalties they had to pay to Nvidia. They are still basically paying 1999 prices in 2005.

[theWacoKid]

The biggest factor in MS bleeding of money was the royalties they had to pay to Nvidia. They are still basically paying 1999 prices in 2005.

You're effin clueless, but what else can you expect from an xbot. Nvidia basically made the xbox, they designed the graphics and sound hardware. MS and Nvidia reached an agreement eventually, so MS got concessions from nvidia on pricing. MS looked to screw nvidia and other suppliers, because they blew their launch, sales were well below expectations and they were forced to drop the price of their console by $100 after only 6 months and expected that their suppliers were eager to take a financial bath as well. If you were Nvidia, you would've told MS to take a hike as well.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

You're effin clueless, but what else can you expect from an xbot. Nvidia basically made the xbox, they designed the graphics and sound hardware. MS and Nvidia reached an agreement eventually, so MS got concessions from nvidia on pricing. MS looked to screw nvidia and other suppliers, because they blew their launch, sales were well below expectations and they were forced to drop the price of their console by $100 after only 6 months and expected that their suppliers were eager to take a financial bath as well. If you were Nvidia, you would've told MS to take a hike as well.


I'm not even going to argue with you. Because I'm pretty sure Bill Gates slept with your girl. You are so irrational when it comes to MS it's pointless. Plus you whole arguement is tinted through Waco covered glasses I could present a counter to the argument but whatever! You will believe what you want.

[Mochan]

I wouldn't necessarily say I'm primarily a PC gamer, but I would say that if a console offers PC games, then it's better to play it on the PC since you get better tech and all. It may not be bang for the buck, but there are games that I really believe just play better on the PC compared to a console.

I do admit though that I'm a bit of an elitist, and definitely my views aren't reflective of the general population. And considering I come from a totally different culture as well than you guys, that adds even more layers of difference.

A console doesn't need the same amount of ram as a PC to get similar performance but more ram is never a bad thing I guess. Hell orginally the speculation was only 226MB of ram.

True enough, but 512MB RAM still seems weak for the next gen. It has to last 5 years or so, after all. What will happen is that contiguous projects in later years will have stunted console equivalents that will kill the games (as Hieremias mentioned with Thief 3, Deus Ex, etc.)

Another consideration is the relative power of the processor and the resolution things will be going on. No matter how you look at it, 512MB RAM just looks too little if it really wants to compete at high res with a PC for next gen graphics and huge game worlds. Previous consoles could get away with less due to decreased graphical capabilities (less resolution, washed-down textures, etc. and that a lot of a PC's RAM is wasted by Windows) but Xbox360 packs processing power far greater than a PC's at the moment, 512 just feels like the weak link to that spec sheet.

And I've been wondering; how much memory does the GPU have? 10MB? Will it be shared with that 512MB?


I still say Halo is nothing but an great shooter. PC heads just don't know better

There may be some truth in that but we PC gamers have also played Halo on the PC. ;) And on the XBox too, for that matter.

[slade]

Figures all the X-bots would herd into the tech specs thread. From what I've seen of the software, you should be asking where all this muscle power is going.

[theWacoKid]

I'm not even going to argue with you. Because I'm pretty sure Bill Gates slept with your girl. You are so irrational when it comes to MS it's pointless. Plus you whole arguement is tinted through Waco covered glasses I could present a counter to the argument but whatever! You will believe what you want.

You have no counter to an argument you pulled out your ass. I suggest hitting the report this post button and crying to the mods that theWacoKid is being mean to you and made you look bad. The facts are what the facts are, only the fanboyz with green tinted glasses refuse to deal with them.

[slade]

I don't see any reason why Sony would launch with XBox 360 ports.

Sony won't but 3rd parties will.

You need to broaden your horizons on 3rd party support.

[Mochan]

I don't really follow the scene that well but when you're going to do a launch for your console, it would be foolish to have your launch titles be games that come from another system. You're launching your console and you want people to buy it, why would they buy it if they can get your "launch game" or have played your launch game on another system already?

Launch games practically by definition should be exclusive to a console, or at least exclusive for a while before ports show up elsewhere.

Have I missed something, and there are circumstances which will force Sony to get an XBox game as one of its launch titles?

[Glockstar]

You're effin clueless, but what else can you expect from an xbot. Nvidia basically made the xbox, they designed the graphics and sound hardware. MS and Nvidia reached an agreement eventually, so MS got concessions from nvidia on pricing. MS looked to screw nvidia and other suppliers, because they blew their launch, sales were well below expectations and they were forced to drop the price of their console by $100 after only 6 months and expected that their suppliers were eager to take a financial bath as well. If you were Nvidia, you would've told MS to take a hike as well.

Somebody brought this up a couple of days ago, and well, I've got to repose the question myself: why is this WacoKid still being allowed to post here? To every counter-argument all he does is curse, swear, and start calling people names. What happened to the rules; what happened to "attack the argument, not the person"? I think a lot of the people he's put down have been really tolerant of his behavior, but I don't think that should excuse it. On the contrary, I think they should be commended for putting up with it and for trying to hold fast on the appropriate conduct. I think, for the most part, people have been doing an excellent job of posting within the guidelines lately. But how long do you expect this to last, when one guy's running in the opposite direction? Come on mods...

And no WacoKid, MS didn't drop the price of the Xbox because of sales - they were forced to do it because Sony was doing it. Sony's the one that announced the "first" price drop; then MS and Nintendo reacted accordingly.* Talk about getting your facts straight... maybe you ought to try practicing what you preach. And take note of how it's done - notice how there's no putdowns or name-calling?

* Which is pretty much exactly how it's going to go down next gen too - except that it will be MS in the drivers seat, not Sony.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

I don't really follow the scene that well but when you're going to do a launch for your console, it would be foolish to have your launch titles be games that come from another system. You're launching your console and you want people to buy it, why would they buy it if they can get your "launch game" or have played your launch game on another system already?

Launch games practically by definition should be exclusive to a console, or at least exclusive for a while before ports show up elsewhere.

Have I missed something, and there are circumstances which will force Sony to get an XBox game as one of its launch titles?

Picture this you are a 3rd party publisher and you've been building your mega hit next gen game. You release it on Xbox 360 and get a good reception. Now the market leader is coming soon and you know they are going to have a great launch and uber powerful system :rolleyes: you aren't going to port your game over to that console and try and get more sales? And if you are Sony you aren't going to relish in the opprutunity to steal one of your compeititors best games.

Look back at the xbox launch and how many PS2 ports were there. Or they could take the Nintendo route and launch with 2 or 3 games but I doubt that Sony believes in quantity.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

You need to broaden your horizons on 3rd party support.

Yeah there will be some exlusives but you really think there won't be any 360 ports at launch?

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Somebody brought this up a couple of days ago, and well, I've got to repose the question myself: why is this WacoKid still being allowed to post here? To every counter-argument all he does is curse, swear, and start calling people names. What happened to the rules; what happened to "attack the argument, not the person"? I think a lot of the people he's put down have been really tolerant of his behavior, but I don't think that should excuse it. On the contrary, I think they should be commended for putting up with it and for trying to hold fast on the appropriate conduct. I think, for the most part, people have been doing an excellent job of posting within the guidelines lately. But how long do you expect this to last, when one guy's running in the opposite direction? Come on mods...

And no WacoKid, MS didn't drop the price of the Xbox because of sales - they were forced to do it because Sony was doing it. Sony's the one that announced the "first" price drop; then MS and Nintendo reacted accordingly.* Talk about getting your facts straight... maybe you ought to try practicing what you preach. And take note of how it's done - notice how there's no putdowns or name-calling?

* Which is pretty much exactly how it's going to go down next gen too - except that it will be MS in the drivers seat, not Sony.


Use ta be Slade was the head honcho from the MS Haterz Division, now it looks like he takes his orders from WACKO. It looks like you are allowed to be as negative as you wish and flaunt and skirt the rules of this site, as long as you are talking bad about a MS product or an XBOT.

Anyway, I like to hear these idiots talk all this nonsense. After all it is their most beloved PS2 that is not rewarding them while we play awesome games on XBOX, and now XBOX 360. They play crud and pretend it is good. These people complain that XBOX will not be around after this year, when XBOX will have better games than PS2 through 2007 and GC. I mean, I don't even see the point in PS3 or Revolution being backward compatiable, there is nothing worth playing out right now. And the PS3 is going to be such a serious step up from the PS2, why would you even want to disgrace the system with a crummy awful PS2 game.

Anyway, the real deal, as i've stated before, is XBOX 360 will have a hd and be b/c, support 720p and 1080i native, online aware, and all that jazz. Now, PC heads are coming out the woodwork to complain about 512 meg of ram. This is not an issue, as you mentioned the XBOX only had 64MB of unified memory, guess what it is the only console capable of doing Doom, Half-life2, Far-cry and all the other games, which you guys pay a fortune to play on the PC. Now, how is that a failure? Just cause a game wasn't as crisp as the PC resolution. PC guys should be happy, cause now you can buy an XBOX 360 for $300, and you no longer have to upgrade your pc. It will be a long time before PC regain the tech advantage. XBOX 360 will be compatiable with PC accessories such as driving wheels, you can get online and do all kinds of stuff easier than you can on the PC. Why complain? And 3 or 4 years down the road, if the PCs overcome the 360, then you can upgrade then. But why complain now, when a company is offering you something better for $300. Oh yeah, I forgot, cause its Microsoft. The 512mb is such a non-issue, that is more than enough, both XBOX 360 and PS3 were initially rumoured to only have 256meg, XBOX 360 upped it to 512meg, we don't yet know if PS3 will or won't. You guys assume they will, but you could be wrong.

Just like you guys assume, there will be all these freebies including a hardrive on PS3. Boy you guys could be in for a rude awakening and have to eat a lot of crow. As for complaining about the price, that is insane! First it is not a lot of money, $300 as one person put it. That is the normal launch price. Secondly, another complained MS is giving away too much, which is it guys, too expensive or too cheap? Who cares if they are giving away too much? Oh, Sony and Nintendo care, cause they are either not going to offer it, or charge you $400 or $500 for their consoles.

Far as the games, that's on the developers, not XBOX 360. Just like you have awful looking games and great looking games on XBOX, that won't change next generation. Some developers are more talented than others, some developers try and get over on hype. Not every game on any system is going to be worth $50. And not every launch game is going to be great, certainly. There will be a handful of great launch games, and some decent ones, and some poor ones. But nobody complained about the awful PS2 launch games, and people overated the GC launch games, Rogue Squadron and Luigi's Mansion, please, I remember how you guys said they were soooooo great.

Anyway, nothing has changed around here. It is only the XBOTs who are open minded, i'm looking forward to all the consoles. And unless Sony does something real dumb like offer a $500 console, or have no real online service, I won't buy a PS3. Other than that, I'll own an XBOX 360 and a PS3. No Revolution, though my kids could end up with one in their room from grandparents or something. And with b/c and a hardrive, I can buy a 360 at launch and play all my old XBOX games, and the new ones like Halflife2 and Motogp3, and Rainbow6 Lockdown, ohhhhhhh I JUST LOVE BACKWARD COMPAT. AND HARDRIVES, don't you guys?

LMAO this is soooo funny, seriously, you guys were all ready to destroy XBOX 360 over these features, now you have nothing left to complain about. You all said this is what was going to stop you from buying a 360. Now what? Now what is stopping you?

Come on Trebor, Come on Gadfly, even WACKO said this would prevent him, of course, now we will see who is man enough, who was really faking interest or who was serious.

I finally figured out, this site isn't for hardcore gamers, this site is for mainstream gamers. You guys are soft a bunch of talkers.

[slade]

LOL, it doesn't take much to get Daman to self destruct. Looks like all that crap you were talking about PS3, now applies to 360, ie, rushed games and whatnot.

[slade]

Yeah there will be some exlusives but you really think there won't be any 360 ports at launch?

They certainly aren't going to be in the majority like you seem to think. Notice, in all this, the major studios like Capcom, Namco, Konami and Squeenix are nowhere to be found. They weren't at the 360 unveiling in Japan either. Also, with Sony's first and second parties clearly putting forth better efforts then the competition, I doubt Sony has anything to worry about.

[slade]

Far as the games, that's on the developers, not XBOX 360. Just like you have awful looking games and great looking games on XBOX, that won't change next generation. Some developers are more talented than others, some developers try and get over on hype. Not every game on any system is going to be worth $50. And not every launch game is going to be great, certainly.

The thing you have to remember here is that the pics we have seen of DOA4 and PD0 come from two developers that have a history of squeezing the most graphical capability out of a console. Team Ninja brought out graphical powerhouses like DOA3 and Ninja Gaiden on X-box and their 360 effort is not a great improvement over that. Rare, before being sold to MS, created SFA for GC which was a great looking title and yet PD0 looks like crap and was running at 15 fps at that unveiling last night. Like I said before, what you should be asking is where all this muscle power is going. And if the games were just moved over to 360 then why show them like this?

This is worse then those photoshopped Amped pics.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

LOL, it doesn't take much to get Daman to self destruct. Looks like all that crap you were talking about PS3, now applies to 360, ie, rushed games and whatnot.

You don't know anything about these games. E-3 hasn't even started yet. But you, of all people, know these games will suck. Hmmm. How is that. Let's face it, this is all a Red Herring from you. You assumed the system would lack b/c and a hardrive, now that you don't have that to bash over our heads, you fall back to subjective issues, such as you thinking the games will be bad. And now, being that for the next few months, we won't be able to play the games, your point can't be disproven.

But, this is just like before. You guys said Forza was crap, it was delayed, MS had to fix it, the demo was garbage, etc etc etc. Well, the game is now rated 95%, and you guys don't even want to talk about it.

I'm extremely satisfied with the XBOX 360, it is even better than I previously thought, cause I thought the system wouldn't offer a hardrive standard. So this is awesome news. And ditto with b/c. Now, essentially, I can trade in both of my XBOX units for an XBOX 360 at launch, how can anyone complain? Developers can continue their XBOX projects, which they have shown no hints at stopping, knowing, the XBOX 360 will support them. I think this is why Valve brought Half-life2, Id brought Doom3, Motogp3 is coming late, as well as Rainbow6 Lockdown etc, these companies knew all along. This is why, the 3rd party support is there, I think developers obviously knew all of this, while you guys were running around screaming and crying about no hdd and no b/c.

So now all the wind has left your sails, and all you have to do is sit back and wait, and hope the PS3 doesn't leave egg on your face. Now you have to hope it ships with a hdd and has 512meg of ram, has wireless controllers, has an online service, supports HD games standard at 720 and 1080i, and doesn't cost a small fortune.

Oh, and you also have to hope the PS3 launch games don't suck like the PS2 ones did. I mean, now that this is your new hot button issue, it would be ashame to see PS3 launch again, with awful games. Almost unforgivable.

Anybody who doesn't like the XBOX 360's specs is just a plain liar or not a gamer. I think in your case friend Slade, you are both. I know you aren't a gamer or at least a current gamer, your still stuck in the early 90's when it comes to games and tech.

[slade]

Sigh, I've never said the games sucked. I said that the games didn't look good, which is all any of us have really said. When you come back down to Earth and I come back from my job, we can do this like 2002 all over again.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

The thing you have to remember here is that the pics we have seen of DOA4 and PD0 come from two developers that have a history of squeezing the most graphical capability out of a console. Team Ninja brought out graphical powerhouses like DOA3 and Ninja Gaiden on X-box and their 360 effort is not a great improvement over that. Rare, before being sold to MS, created SFA for GC which was a great looking title and yet PD0 looks like crap and was running at 15 fps at that unveiling last night. Like I said before, what you should be asking is where all this muscle power is going. And if the games were just moved over to 360 then why show them like this?

This is worse then those photoshopped Amped pics.

You are being waaaaay to hasty. The code you are seeing is not code built for or running on XBOX 360 specs. Developer kits had 2 G5 cores and the latest graphics card friend Slade.

Come on man, use your brain. Also, looking at the game through TV and internet still shots is not nearly the same. I have no doubt that there will be some amazing launch games with awesome tech. I have absolutely NO DOUBT. This is the company that brought you at launch Halo and DOA3. This is the company that brought Doom3 and Halflife2 to the XBOX, not to mention the lovely SC:CT. Hoping that the XBOX 360 won't have good graphics at launch, son you'd do better off betting the sun won't shine tomorrow.

And as far as exclusives. They will all be exclusives for at least an entire year. This was the exact scenario that PS2 used to their advantage. They had Silent Hill and Onimusha and SSX etc etc, they all ended up a year later on XBOX, and you guys said they were only ports. Now, the same thing is going to happen. PS3 will get sloppy seconds, lol. But, you are also dreaming if you think there won't be any true exclusives. How do you come up with this stuff man? You know there will be exclusives, come off it.

I'll guarantee, as much as that's worth, Morrowind Oblivion will never see the light of day on PS3. The game has been in development for XBOX 360 since 2002. Bethesda knows nothing about the Sony architecture, and everybody knows western rpgs get no love on Sony's machine, so they won't gamble the $20 million it will take to bring it to PS3. Obviously, PD0 and any other MS published game won't be on the PS3, this includes anything published by MS from TEAM NINJA. In case you didn't know, MS published Ninja Gaiden and DOA.

You mention the lack of anything from Namco and the rest of the Japanese developers. Well, they weren't a big reason why XBOX made it, so I don't see MS leaning on them for 360. And frankly, aside from RE4 and an old in the tooth Soul Calibur, what do they have to offer? MS has established relationships with some new comer japanese developers, will it be enough to satisfy Japan. Of course NOT. XBOX 360 won't be a hit in Japan, EVARRRRRRRR. But, MS has to put on a brave face there. Its not fair, its a biased country in terms of American products. But, i'm sure MS knows all of this. In terms of the US, japanese developers just don't have the clout they once did. Almost NONE on XBOX outside of Team Ninja, and your precious 2D fighting games and J-RPGS, I hope they don't make 1 of either for XBOX 360. The XBOX crowd doesn't care about those games Slade. And, its interesting, so far, I don't see one corny platformer or furry mascot based game. Could be gaming is growing up. But, this should be good news for you, more reasons to hate the system. Hate it son, hate it till it consumes, then at that point, you will have joined the dark side.

[Mochan]

Anyway, I like to hear these idiots talk all this nonsense. After all it is their most beloved PS2 that is not rewarding them while we play awesome games on XBOX, and now XBOX 360. They play crud and pretend it is good. These people complain that XBOX will not be around after this year, when XBOX will have better games than PS2 through 2007 and GC. I mean, I don't even see the point in PS3 or Revolution being backward compatiable, there is nothing worth playing out right now. And the PS3 is going to be such a serious step up from the PS2, why would you even want to disgrace the system with a crummy awful PS2 game.

No offense, but the only nonsense I see is this paragraph you just posted. PS2 has nothing but awful games? Everyone playing them doesn't know better and is just pretending they're good? Now that's real crap.

guess what it is the only console capable of doing Doom, Half-life2, Far-cry and all the other games, which you guys pay a fortune to play on the PC.

The XBox equivalents do not manage to achieve the graphical quality on the PC. There's no comparison.

PC guys should be happy, cause now you can buy an XBOX 360 for $300, and you no longer have to upgrade your pc.

No, because I want to play them on my PC. Just as you say you prefer your XBox over PCs, I prefer my PC over XBox. It also has to do with the control scheme, and the fact that not all the games I want to play on the PC will come out on the XBox. And the ones that probably will, I want to play with a mouse. Oblivion, and if we're lucky, Boiling Point, Stalker and Black and White 2. Fat chance we'll get Stronghold 2, Gothic 3, Guild Wars, Civ 4, and the like on XBox360.


And for the record, I'm not complaining. And you sound awfully defensive, I guess this System Wars place has too many jumpy people with paranoia sickness.


Far as the games, that's on the developers, not XBOX 360.

That's where you're wrong. Games are all it's about. It doesn't matter if the XBox is the best console tech-wise, if there aren't any games for me to play on it. The whole reason why Sony is the market leader right now is because of the games they have on the system. Oh wait, I forgot, you don't recognize that crud as playable! Whatever.


Anyway, nothing has changed around here. It is only the XBOTs who are open minded, i'm looking forward to all the consoles

This from someone who just said all the games on PS2 are crud.

You all said this is what was going to stop you from buying a 360. Now what? Now what is stopping you?

I seem to be a non-entity, since I said the only reason I don't get an XBox 360 is because I doubt I'll get the games I want on it. I never complained about any features. Well I understand much of your arguments aren't directed towards me, but that bit you said about the PS2 is just utter crap.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

They certainly aren't going to be in the majority like you seem to think. Notice, in all this, the major studios like Capcom, Namco, Konami and Squeenix are nowhere to be found. They weren't at the 360 unveiling in Japan either. Also, with Sony's first and second parties clearly putting forth better efforts then the competition, I doubt Sony has anything to worry about.

So you are saying that you believe that all the games that will be released in the first year have been shown? Or just that they've shown all the launch games already? Even if they have (and they haven't) you would be wrong.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/613/613390p1.html

And let's put this in stone. Here is your first PS3 port.

[Mochan]

I'll guarantee, as much as that's worth, Morrowind Oblivion will never see the light of day on PS3. The game has been in development for XBOX 360 since 2002.

I'm also doubt that Oblivion will come out on thePS3, but it's hard to say. I think Bethesda is eyeing all 3 next gen consoles for its game. Or at the least, XBox 360 and PS3. Bethesda has already announced that they intend to bring the game to the next gen consoles, they said "consoles," not "console." Still, the odds are it comes out on XBox 360, not the PS3.

Regardless, I don't care whether it comes out on all 3 consoles, I'm only getting it on the PC. Why? Mods. It's all about mods. The mods will be on the PC, not the XBox 360. This I can gaurantee you. And I still can't let go of mouse control for this kind of game. I want the mouse freedom to take in all the beautiful sights of this world.

will it be enough to satisfy Japan. Of course NOT. XBOX 360 won't be a hit in Japan, EVARRRRRRRR. But, MS has to put on a brave face there. Its not fair, its a biased country in terms of American products.

Japan isn't biased against American products. Japanese eat up American stuff like crazy. The problem is they don't eat up the XBox like crazy, because their culture is used to the games that come from Japanese developers like Konami, Capcom, Nintendo, and Square.

In terms of the US, japanese developers just don't have the clout they once did. Almost NONE on XBOX outside of Team Ninja, and your precious 2D fighting games and J-RPGS, I hope they don't make 1 of either for XBOX 360. The XBOX crowd doesn't care about those games Slade.

Jap devs don't have clout ON THE XBOX. They have lots of clout in the US on the other systems. It's just that you wrote them all off as crud already. Like you said, the XBox crowd doesn't care about those games. It's the XBox crowd, not all the other Americans. Else, why is it that marketshare in the US still belongs to the PS2 anyway, and it's not like it's the US games on the PS2 that mostly comprise that market share.

[Mochan]

That Frame City most definitely smells like something that will make its way to the PS3 eventually.

It's good to see that more Jap devs like Namco are looking into the XBox. What M$ needs is to diversify its game selection from PC-like games into more console-type games.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Japan isn't biased against American products. Japanese eat up American stuff like crazy. The problem is they don't eat up the XBox like crazy, because their culture is used to the games that come from Japanese developers like Konami, Capcom, Nintendo, and Square.





Are you serious. What American products do they eat up over there? They seem to have an obsession with American pop culture American made movies in particular. But all you have to do is to look at the Trade balances between the two nations to see how far off base you are. Hell they didn't even buy the Ipod over there and Japan is the mecca of all things digital.

[Mochan]

Well I guess I did say it wrong, and actually you are correct. I was referring to movies in particular, actually (but also pop culture stuff like TV shows, cartoons, and music). But you are right, the Japanese market is very homogenized and it's hard for American companies to break products into the Jap market, such as for food, electronics, appliances, even clothing. I just reacted overly to the comment on Japanese being closed against American products as if they didn't care about American culture at all.

[The Prince of Darkness]

But, this is just like before. You guys said Forza was crap, it was delayed, MS had to fix it, the demo was garbage, etc etc etc. Well, the game is now rated 95%, and you guys don't even want to talk about it.


I'm glad that you brought this up because all I could do was laugh at that GT4 vs. Forza thread. The game is rated at 95% and LITERALLY like half of the reviewers that reviewed the game said that Forza is better. Hell it may have even been more than half. It doesn't matter, though, because now the reviews don't even matter. What matters more is what "the regular gamers" think or what "the people on the gaming forums" think. I'm getting a sense from the dreaded forum people that the game may just be too "floaty". Lol. Don't take it to heart dude. These folks are serious doubletalkers.

[theWacoKid]

Somebody brought this up a couple of days ago, and well, I've got to repose the question myself: why is this WacoKid still being allowed to post here? To every counter-argument all he does is curse, swear, and start calling people names. What happened to the rules; what happened to "attack the argument, not the person"? I think a lot of the people he's put down have been really tolerant of his behavior, but I don't think that should excuse it. On the contrary, I think they should be commended for putting up with it and for trying to hold fast on the appropriate conduct. I think, for the most part, people have been doing an excellent job of posting within the guidelines lately. But how long do you expect this to last, when one guy's running in the opposite direction? Come on mods...

And no WacoKid, MS didn't drop the price of the Xbox because of sales - they were forced to do it because Sony was doing it. Sony's the one that announced the "first" price drop; then MS and Nintendo reacted accordingly.* Talk about getting your facts straight... maybe you ought to try practicing what you preach. And take note of how it's done - notice how there's no putdowns or name-calling?

* Which is pretty much exactly how it's going to go down next gen too - except that it will be MS in the drivers seat, not Sony.

Look who's talking, another xbot stooge who's attacked me personally, called me a liar, claimed I didn't play various games and now wants to take a high road approach on these boards and run crying to the mods. The ultimate bastion of the weak minded, when all else fails, run to the mods and get the poster booted off. ROFLMAO at the pathetic nature of the whining from DT, Glockenspiel, and The Masked Goober. What's wrong, isn't three against one enough odds for you guys.

Check your facts, dude, MS was set to drop the price on the xbox, and sony beat them to it. Fact. Sony denied they were going to drop their price in response to a proposed xbox price cut. The sony rep stated that they don't drop the price on products based on what a competitor is doing and that they were comfortable at the $299 price point. They flipped, sandbagged or whatever you want to call it and cut the price a day ahead of MS. And MS did announce that xbox sales were under their projected estimates. You wouldn't know a fact if it bit you in the ass.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

No offense, but the only nonsense I see is this paragraph you just posted. PS2 has nothing but awful games? Everyone playing them doesn't know better and is just pretending they're good? Now that's real crap.



The XBox equivalents do not manage to achieve the graphical quality on the PC. There's no comparison.



No, because I want to play them on my PC. Just as you say you prefer your XBox over PCs, I prefer my PC over XBox. It also has to do with the control scheme, and the fact that not all the games I want to play on the PC will come out on the XBox. And the ones that probably will, I want to play with a mouse. Oblivion, and if we're lucky, Boiling Point, Stalker and Black and White 2. Fat chance we'll get Stronghold 2, Gothic 3, Guild Wars, Civ 4, and the like on XBox360.


And for the record, I'm not complaining. And you sound awfully defensive, I guess this System Wars place has too many jumpy people with paranoia sickness.




That's where you're wrong. Games are all it's about. It doesn't matter if the XBox is the best console tech-wise, if there aren't any games for me to play on it. The whole reason why Sony is the market leader right now is because of the games they have on the system. Oh wait, I forgot, you don't recognize that crud as playable! Whatever.




This from someone who just said all the games on PS2 are crud.



I seem to be a non-entity, since I said the only reason I don't get an XBox 360 is because I doubt I'll get the games I want on it. I never complained about any features. Well I understand much of your arguments aren't directed towards me, but that bit you said about the PS2 is just utter crap.

You make absolutely no sense. First, i'm talking about PS2 games from a technical point of view. I'm talking about sound, graphical quality, hardware effects, hd support, online support, etc. I don't care about whether people think the games are good or not, because that is subjective and can be argued about till the cows come home. If Slade tells me he still enjoys playing Street Fighter, then I can't argue with that. If someone tells me they like turn-based J-RPGs, I can't argue with that. But, I do not the PS2 games are wayyyy behind the times technically.

Next, you complain about the graphical differences between XBOX and PC games, well, what about the differences between PS2 and PC games, or PS2 and XBOX games. I think from this perspective your argument against the XBOX doesn't hold water. Also your whole argument about the lack of quality ports from the PC to the XBOX is only shared by yourself and your PC horde who feel threatened by the XBOX. Of course the resolution of Doom3 and the large maps aren't represented on the XBOX, but only a jealous fool would say that game doesn't look good, and I don't even like the game personally, it was boring. The fact is, you don't belong in this conversation, because the PC is an asymetrical comparison to the consoles. You think using a mouse is great, and we don't. I've probably been PC gaming longer than you and before you, so have a lot of XBOTs, we know what PC gaming is all about, we know the difference. So the XBOX is a preference for us. And we think using a controller's trigger for a gun, feels better than pointing a mouse on top of something. And the arguments can go on for days.

The fact is, if you like quality games from a technical standpoint, you have no basis to come in here and argue stupidily about the PS2. You can't blast the XBOX technically and support the PS2. As far as being defensive, if you figure speaking my opinion is defensive, then that's your right. But i'm just responding with my opinion. Now, i'm an early adopter and I love online gaming, and I love dolby digital. I've had a HDTV since before XBOX came out, and i've been online gaming since 1994/5, so for a consumer like me, the PS2 is a piece of crap. Now, the PS3 might be different, will assuredly be different. Now I have two Sony audio receivers and Sony speakers, I don't believe Sony is the anti-christ or evil, like people around here think of Microsoft, but i'm sorry I think the PS2 is a bad product. They did a bad job.

Now, I know you will argue sales. Cool, McDonald's sells more food than anyone, but nobody would argue its the best. GM sells more cars, would you buy one or argue it GM cars are superior, I doubt it. The PS2 sold well but it doesn't offer the best CONSOLE gaming experience, not even close.

Anyway, this is about the XBOX 360. You say you doubt it will have any games you want to play, well if that's the case I wouldn't buy it either. I mean no matter how good the Revolution is, I doubt there will be enough good games for me to warrant a purchase.

[theWacoKid]

Use ta be Slade was the head honcho from the MS Haterz Division, now it looks like he takes his orders from WACKO. It looks like you are allowed to be as negative as you wish and flaunt and skirt the rules of this site, as long as you are talking bad about a MS product or an XBOT.

Anyway, I like to hear these idiots talk all this nonsense. After all it is their most beloved PS2 that is not rewarding them while we play awesome games on XBOX, and now XBOX 360. They play crud and pretend it is good. These people complain that XBOX will not be around after this year, when XBOX will have better games than PS2 through 2007 and GC. I mean, I don't even see the point in PS3 or Revolution being backward compatiable, there is nothing worth playing out right now. And the PS3 is going to be such a serious step up from the PS2, why would you even want to disgrace the system with a crummy awful PS2 game.

Anyway, the real deal, as i've stated before, is XBOX 360 will have a hd and be b/c, support 720p and 1080i native, online aware, and all that jazz. Now, PC heads are coming out the woodwork to complain about 512 meg of ram. This is not an issue, as you mentioned the XBOX only had 64MB of unified memory, guess what it is the only console capable of doing Doom, Half-life2, Far-cry and all the other games, which you guys pay a fortune to play on the PC. Now, how is that a failure? Just cause a game wasn't as crisp as the PC resolution. PC guys should be happy, cause now you can buy an XBOX 360 for $300, and you no longer have to upgrade your pc. It will be a long time before PC regain the tech advantage. XBOX 360 will be compatiable with PC accessories such as driving wheels, you can get online and do all kinds of stuff easier than you can on the PC. Why complain? And 3 or 4 years down the road, if the PCs overcome the 360, then you can upgrade then. But why complain now, when a company is offering you something better for $300. Oh yeah, I forgot, cause its Microsoft. The 512mb is such a non-issue, that is more than enough, both XBOX 360 and PS3 were initially rumoured to only have 256meg, XBOX 360 upped it to 512meg, we don't yet know if PS3 will or won't. You guys assume they will, but you could be wrong.

Just like you guys assume, there will be all these freebies including a hardrive on PS3. Boy you guys could be in for a rude awakening and have to eat a lot of crow. As for complaining about the price, that is insane! First it is not a lot of money, $300 as one person put it. That is the normal launch price. Secondly, another complained MS is giving away too much, which is it guys, too expensive or too cheap? Who cares if they are giving away too much? Oh, Sony and Nintendo care, cause they are either not going to offer it, or charge you $400 or $500 for their consoles.

Far as the games, that's on the developers, not XBOX 360. Just like you have awful looking games and great looking games on XBOX, that won't change next generation. Some developers are more talented than others, some developers try and get over on hype. Not every game on any system is going to be worth $50. And not every launch game is going to be great, certainly. There will be a handful of great launch games, and some decent ones, and some poor ones. But nobody complained about the awful PS2 launch games, and people overated the GC launch games, Rogue Squadron and Luigi's Mansion, please, I remember how you guys said they were soooooo great.

Anyway, nothing has changed around here. It is only the XBOTs who are open minded, i'm looking forward to all the consoles. And unless Sony does something real dumb like offer a $500 console, or have no real online service, I won't buy a PS3. Other than that, I'll own an XBOX 360 and a PS3. No Revolution, though my kids could end up with one in their room from grandparents or something. And with b/c and a hardrive, I can buy a 360 at launch and play all my old XBOX games, and the new ones like Halflife2 and Motogp3, and Rainbow6 Lockdown, ohhhhhhh I JUST LOVE BACKWARD COMPAT. AND HARDRIVES, don't you guys?

LMAO this is soooo funny, seriously, you guys were all ready to destroy XBOX 360 over these features, now you have nothing left to complain about. You all said this is what was going to stop you from buying a 360. Now what? Now what is stopping you?

Come on Trebor, Come on Gadfly, even WACKO said this would prevent him, of course, now we will see who is man enough, who was really faking interest or who was serious.

I finally figured out, this site isn't for hardcore gamers, this site is for mainstream gamers. You guys are soft a bunch of talkers.

You're so sad. Where do you see b/c for 360? Anywhere. Anybody mention it? Certainly hasn't been MS. I havent seen anything on b/c for the 360, so WTF are you going on about. What I do see, is that MS is going to kill off the xbox, its done, bunky, its dead, the wake is just a little farther down the line, but its history. MS has pulled the plug. Its going to be like, it never happened, the xbox was just a four year beta test for MS. And since no price has been announced for 360, what will you think if the price is $400 and not the $300 you casually claim as if it were a fact.

You're irrelevant as a gamer. You're stuck on specs and you wouldn't know a novel game concept if your life depended on it. It's not the console, its the games. Any fool knows that but you're not bright enough to qualify for fool status. Only a genuine idiot would claim, "I mean, I don't even see the point in PS3 or Revolution being backward compatiable, there is nothing worth playing out right now.

You sir, are a genuine idiot! And frankly, a disgrace as a gamer. If you haven't played it, you hate on it. Then you have the audacity to claim a ps3 may be in your future. Why? Everything on the ps2 is uttter crap to you, how will the ps3 be any different. OH, higher specs, is that the drift? As long as the system is powerful, that's all that counts. Pathetic, absolutely pathetic. You're not only NOT a hardcore gamer, you're no gamer at all. No wonder you're the masked gamer.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Well I guess I did say it wrong, and actually you are correct. I was referring to movies in particular, actually (but also pop culture stuff like TV shows, cartoons, and music). But you are right, the Japanese market is very homogenized and it's hard for American companies to break products into the Jap market, such as for food, electronics, appliances, even clothing. I just reacted overly to the comment on Japanese being closed against American products as if they didn't care about American culture at all.



That's the way YOU interpreted what I said. I never said anything about culture. I've been to Japan, I think it is an awesome country. And the Japanese people, in general, love Americans. I was in places and people would always say USA #1 and give me the thumbs up sign. Shop owners and restaurants would be overjoyed you were American and eating in their establishment. But I just don't like their games anymore. Its nothing personal against the country or racists on my part. If they came out with a great racing game or a great shooter i'd be there. Hell, I even bought Sega's Gunvalkyrie, and Sega GT, obviously Ninja Gaiden and DOA and Soul Calibur. But i'm tiring of the fighters, i'm done with turn based rpgs, American or Japanese. I've never dug Anime, aside from ROBOTECH. But for them, its different, it is a definite concerted effort to be biased against American products. But you really can't fault them for being loyal. As American's we preach to buy American, so we can't blame them when they follow through on that sentiment. But ignorant people here will use the fact that the XBOX didn't do well in Japan, as some sort of indication of its quality. They are dead wrong, the XBOX was never going to do well over there. And neither will XBOX 360. No matter how many great Japanese games are on the system. But MS has to go through the motions anyway, and waste a whole bunch of money. Honestly, it'd be cheaper if they just skipped the whole region, but then they wouldn't be taken seriously as a game company. But, in reality, its a lost cause.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

You're so sad. Where do you see b/c for 360? Anywhere. Anybody mention it? Certainly hasn't been MS. I havent seen anything on b/c for the 360, so WTF are you going on about. What I do see, is that MS is going to kill off the xbox, its done, bunky, its dead, the wake is just a little farther down the line, but its history. MS has pulled the plug. Its going to be like, it never happened, the xbox was just a four year beta test for MS. And since no price has been announced for 360, what will you think if the price is $400 and not the $300 you casually claim as if it were a fact.

You're irrelevant as a gamer. You're stuck on specs and you wouldn't know a novel game concept if your life depended on it. It's not the console, its the games. Any fool knows that but you're not bright enough to qualify for fool status. Only a genuine idiot would claim, "I mean, I don't even see the point in PS3 or Revolution being backward compatiable, there is nothing worth playing out right now.

You sir, are a genuine idiot! And frankly, a disgrace as a gamer. If you haven't played it, you hate on it. Then you have the audacity to claim a ps3 may be in your future. Why? Everything on the ps2 is uttter crap to you, how will the ps3 be any different. OH, higher specs, is that the drift? As long as the system is powerful, that's all that counts. Pathetic, absolutely pathetic. You're not only NOT a hardcore gamer, you're no gamer at all. No wonder you're the masked gamer.


We all know there is no love lost between the two of us, so MR.INTERNETSHYATTALKER why don't you just skip the two paragraphs of weak insults and get straight to your points.

As to your points, first, how do I know the system is b/c. Because unlike you, I have been looking at all the press regarding the XBOX 360. You have been running your mouth for weeks about how you know the system isn't b/c, how you know it won't have a hdd, and now you know the games suck. Well, thankfully, we've recently found out that you didn't know a damn thing, and were just hoping it didn't have any of that stuff.

If you read some articles or watch the OURCOLONY video that was posted this morning, you will see them using an XBOX 360 and in the dashboard they have current generation XBOX games, like Fable and Halo2. I've already posted the information regarding MS' questionnaire they sent to LIVE users in which it was stated XBOX 2 would be able to play XBOX games. If all this isn't enough clues for you, and I know you aren't very sharp, then just wait till E3. But I think for most people, at least those who have read anything about it, we know it will support b/c.

As for not playing every PS2 game. Please i've played enough and I know enough about the system to say compared to XBOX and with the games that I like to play, there is no comparison. And the PS2 ports on XBOX that were suppose to be good games were awful. I've been through this before, but i'll do it again, just cause it amuses me. Metal Gear Solid was suppose to be the greatest stealth spy game ever, I played Splinter Cell which debuted on the XBOX(not the PC Mochan) and THEN I PLAYED THE SPLINTER CELL port, AFTER PLAYING SPLINTER CELL I couldn't even finish Metal Gear that's how bad it was. I played and finished Onimusha and Silent Hill 2 on the XBOX, both games were garbage. I played and finished Medal of Honor, it was utter garbage as a shooter. I played and finished Red Faction 2, and it was half-way decent, but not nearly the Halo killer, PS2 idiots claimed it to be.

Now, I wasn't buying a PS2 just to play a few games that you guys said were good. For example, you guys all hailed State of Emergency, so much so, that when it came to XBOX I played it, what a damn sucker I was, it was garbage. Now, the best the PS2 had to offer this generation, Grand Theft Auto, is on the XBOX. So i'm not going to buy a PS2 for that game. Gran Tourismo had the chance, but I play racing games online, so I wouldn't have bought a PS2 for Gran Tourismo. I don't play J-RPGs or 2D fighters, or many furry mascot games like Jak and Daxter, so that is the best the PS2 had to offer. On top of all that, I can't play any of the games, aside from a few in progressive scan or dolby digital, and did I already mention online. Now if you look at the performance of games like GhostRecon, Rainbow6, and Splinter Cell on the PS2, in terms of quality, its a joke, why would i buy a PS2? They couldn't even make the same Ghost Recon 2 game, they had to make a lesser quality completely different game. Why buy a PS2? Somebody pleaaaaase tell me why? I'm playing Doom3, soon Half-life2, SC:CT online, Forza. I mean building cars, racing online in ultra-competitve rooms, why buy a PS2? For what purpose. PS2 games aren't even highly rated anymore, every month many many 90% games are on XBOX. Not PS2, certainly not GC. I don't even have time to play all the great 90% xbox games. KOTOR2 missed it, Jade Empire missed it. And many others. So why buy a PS2?

You buy a product, to use it. You buy a console to play the games on it, this is not imagined, there is NOTHING on the PS2 that I am interested in, that is better or not represented on the XBOX. Wait, I take it back, there is 1 game maybe God of War, i'd like to play. Get real people, stop deluding yourself. Its one thing to be loyal, but don't be a damn sucker because of it.

[Mochan]

I don't play J-RPGs or 2D fighters, or many furry mascot games like Jak and Daxter, so that is the best the PS2 had to offer.

That's the best the PS2 has to offer to you. But not the best it has to offer. PS2 is clearly not your console of choice, simply because it doesn't have the games you want to play. Same as how the XBox is not the choice for me, since the games I could play on it, I could play better on the PC.

Almost all the games you mentioned, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, Splinter Cell, Doom 3, Half Life 2, Grand Theft Auto, they are all found on the PC, and are better there.

Why buy the PS2? It has the games I want. Super Robot Wars Alpha 2, MX, and Alpha 3, Front Mission 4, Disgaea, Stella Deus, Atelier Iris, Namco x Capcom, Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne, Digital Devil Saga, Breath of Fire V, Final Fantasy X, XII, Berserk, Metal Gear Solid 2, Devil May Cry series, Makai Kingdom, Tekken 5, (to name a few).

THESE are the best the PS2 has to offer, not GTA, which I consider to be one of the worst things you can get on the PS2 (since you can get better versions on just about any other system).

Can I get any of those on the Xbox? Or on the PC? No. That's why I get a PS2.

[Mochan]

That's the way YOU interpreted what I said. I never said anything about culture. I've been to Japan, I think it is an awesome country.

Yeah, I made a mistake in the interpretation there.

[Mochan]

You make absolutely no sense. First, i'm talking about PS2 games from a technical point of view. I'm talking about sound, graphical quality, hardware effects, hd support, online support, etc.

Oh really? You said:

"After all it is their most beloved PS2 that is not rewarding them while we play awesome games on XBOX, and now XBOX 360. They play crud and pretend it is good."

"I mean, I don't even see the point in PS3 or Revolution being backward compatiable, there is nothing worth playing out right now. And the PS3 is going to be such a serious step up from the PS2, why would you even want to disgrace the system with a crummy awful PS2 game."


Not a mention about how the graphics and sound aren't as good, lack of HD or online, etc. You said the games were crap, plain and simple.

I haven't been around this forum long enough to know your long-standing stands on all these, but basing it just from what you posted in this topic (and I have it bolded up there for reference), it's quite clear you think PS2 games are crap not worth bothering with. If you meant the hardware was just tehcnically inferior, then you should have worded your paragraph better, because what you said clearly just bashes PS2 games as plain bad, the lot of them.


But, I do not the PS2 games are wayyyy behind the times technically.

When did I ever say they weren't? In fact, if you dig through these forums, you'll find me complaining about how ugly PS2 games look in comparsion to other platforms because they're technically dated.

Next, you complain about the graphical differences between XBOX and PC games, well, what about the differences between PS2 and PC games, or PS2 and XBOX games.

What about them? If the PS2 game is available on XBox, the Xbox version is almost definitely going to look better. No reason to play the PS2 game unless you don't have an XBox or PC to play the better version on.

My argument holds perfect water. You won't catch me dead playing Ghost Recon on the PS2. Just not gonna happen.

Of course the resolution of Doom3 and the large maps aren't represented on the XBOX, but only a jealous fool would say that game doesn't look good,

Good thing I didn't say that, cuz I'm not a jealous fool. I just said the PC version is much better, hence I play the PC version.


I've had a HDTV since before XBOX came out, and i've been online gaming since 1994/5, so for a consumer like me, the PS2 is a piece of crap.

I've been online gaming since the mid 90's, too, (though admittedly I usually just play on LANs instead since the ping over here is deadly) and while I don't have an HDTV, I've been playing on high-res monitors at 1024x768 before the PS2 even came out. But I love the PS2 since it has quality games I can't get anywhere else.


I've probably been PC gaming longer than you and before you, so have a lot of XBOTs, we know what PC gaming is all about, we know the difference.

Oh please. I've been gaming on PCs (and consoles for that matter) since the late 80s. I know what PC gaming is about. I don't know how old you are but don't underestimate my maturity in the gaming industry.

You can't blast the XBOX technically and support the PS2.

Why not? I blast BOTH the Xbox and PS2 for being technically weak. And they are.

The fact is, if you like quality games from a technical standpoint, you have no basis to come in here and argue stupidily about the PS2.

Fact is, you have no idea what I'm talking about and you think I'm arguing the PS2 is technically superior or some rubbish like that, when I'm not. Are you paranoid or something, thinking everyone has a dagger to your back?

[Fivespot]

Figures all the X-bots would herd into the tech specs thread. From what I've seen of the software, you should be asking where all this muscle power is going.

It might be a bit soon to worry about the software or hang your hat on it as evidence the XBOX 360 won't be any good. It may be difficult, but if you objectively review the system specs you might agree that they are impressive.

Even the last XBOX wasn't much superior graphically until developers began to fully understand how to program for it. The games being released now are technically superior in some aspects to the games released at launch. The same could be said for the PS2 & Gamecube as well.

Take God of War (PS2) and RE4 (Cube) as an example of developers taking full advantage of the hardware and look how long it took them to do so - a couple years.

That argument aside, I've seen some damn good looking screenshots of the upcoming 360 titles and PD0 is not one of them. I am unimpressed by those screens but that doesn't mean the entire system is doomed.

I recall the PS2 not looking much better than the Dreamcast initially but it has more than surpassed it over the years.

This just isn't enough to say the system will flop in my humble opinion. I'll refrain from bashing any of the next gen systems until all the facts are out. Doing so now would just make my creditibility look more like toilet presents.

[Gadfly2317]

There are only two things left for the haters to complain about, 1) the lack of WI-FI out the box 2) the lack of support for Blu-Ray HD DVD. Other than that, the system is hot as hell, and Sony is in for a serious diet on the budget side. To include everything that XBOX 360 will have is going to murder Sony in red ink. And this is the real reason why Sony and Nintendo are mad at MS, MS is forcing them to step up their game and offer more at $300. We will see if they can do it.

They are some nice specs. . . .it will be a fine gaming system. Lack of Wi-fi and Blueray or Hd Dvd. . . oh well.

Selling hardware at a loss is one thing, but I still think MS is using its overwhelming wealth to wage anti-competive attempts to take over another market; Anyone company takes over the market sweet prices will be gone. But for now, this bloody war and all the underselling is great for gamers.

I can't quite muster up the emotion to be a "hater" as you say, but the Xbox is definitely lowest on my want list. This generation Xbox 1 was at the top, but got edged by NIntendo as the first I wanted. I picked up Ps2 last. But I don't see the overall focus of these companies being much different next gen; and those negatives you mentioned about Xbox2 for the "haters" aren't the main one for me. It's GAMES. Each of these companies this time around offer a different vision of gaming that's reflected in their software lineup. It's just personal taste, not hatred, that makes Xbox2 completely undesirable for me if it continues the type of gaming focus it had the first time around.

Not a hater, but I have zero desire to own all three systems next time, and Xbox2 so far has done nothing at all to kindle the slightest interest from me. I'm not closed minded, I still look at at it, see what it gets, but as a company they still seem interested in putting out blockbuster style easily marketable genre stuff. I hope they unveil some stuff at E3 that proves me wrong; I'd be glad to apologize for unfounded bias if it turns out that way.

[theWacoKid]

They are some nice specs. . . .it will be a fine gaming system. Lack of Wi-fi and Blueray or Hd Dvd. . . oh well.

Selling hardware at a loss is one thing, but I still think MS is using its overwhelming wealth to wage anti-competive attempts to take over another market; Anyone company takes over the market sweet prices will be gone. But for now, this bloody war and all the underselling is great for gamers.

I can't quite muster up the emotion to be a "hater" as you say, but the Xbox is definitely lowest on my want list. This generation Xbox 1 was at the top, but got edged by NIntendo as the first I wanted. I picked up Ps2 last. But I don't see the overall focus of these companies being much different next gen; and those negatives you mentioned about Xbox2 for the "haters" aren't the main one for me. It's GAMES. Each of these companies this time around offer a different vision of gaming that's reflected in their software lineup. It's just personal taste, not hatred, that makes Xbox2 completely undesirable for me if it continues the type of gaming focus it had the first time around.

Not a hater, but I have zero desire to own all three systems next time, and Xbox2 so far has done nothing at all to kindle the slightest interest from me. I'm not closed minded, I still look at at it, see what it gets, but as a company they still seem interested in putting out blockbuster style easily marketable genre stuff. I hope they unveil some stuff at E3 that proves me wrong; I'd be glad to apologize for unfounded bias if it turns out that way.

It amazes me how the mindless xbot herd thinks that MS isn't going to bathing in a sea of red ink themselves at $300. At $300 they'll be losing more money on 360 than they were with the xbox. And then of course, the assumption of $300. What happens if they ask $400 and why wouldn't they? They'll be the only next gen system out there, they won't have to compete with anyone on a price basis, but xbots think MS is their good buddy, their friend, theyre out to do them favors. No, they're in it to make a buck. MS launched xbox at $300 because they couldn't go any higher not with the ps2 at $300. Now, MS is out first, and they can do what they want.

If there's one company who knows about bleeding red ink in the videogame biz, its MS, they're experts. If it wasn't for Halo 2, the xbox would've lost millions every single quarter its been out. That takes some doing and some pr spinning to literally lose billions on a business venture and still claim success.

[Zilla Man]

Somebody brought this up a couple of days ago, and well, I've got to repose the question myself: why is this WacoKid still being allowed to post here? To every counter-argument all he does is curse, swear, and start calling people names. What happened to the rules; what happened to "attack the argument, not the person"? I think a lot of the people he's put down have been really tolerant of his behavior, but I don't think that should excuse it. On the contrary, I think they should be commended for putting up with it and for trying to hold fast on the appropriate conduct. I think, for the most part, people have been doing an excellent job of posting within the guidelines lately. But how long do you expect this to last, when one guy's running in the opposite direction? Come on mods...

Putting up with what - an opposing opinion? :rolleyes:


Glocky, if you want to ban people for swearing then lets start with this guy:

WTF Seriously wtf! Where do you get this Bullshi+ from. Better sound? why because you said so. Better online especially from Nintendo? Why what little bird told you that line of crap? Can you at least point to some decent rumors or are you just pulling crap out you A$$!

This is just one of several quotes I could pull from this guy. And don't even get me started on Masked...

[slade]

snip!!!!

There's one thing all your mumbo jumbo won't get through, the games we saw just weren't next gen material. In which case, why show them? Use your brain on that little factoid and you'll see that the scenario of rushed games you've been painting for the PS3 launch seems to be more true when you apply it to 360.

So you are saying that you believe that all the games that will be released in the first year have been shown? Or just that they've shown all the launch games already? Even if they have (and they haven't) you would be wrong.

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/613/613390p1.html

And let's put this in stone. Here is your first PS3 port.

Even if they have or they haven't, we have heard zilch from the major Japanese companies. We have some stuff from Mizaguchi and have heard zilch from Okamoto. The major Japanese studios may throw MS a bone but unless 360 corners the market in that one year, you aren't going to see much from them.

[Superior Beatslayer]

The only thing that surprises me is the low RAM. I don't understand why a machine would come out with such massive processing power but only 512mb RAM. I have double that on my PC today, and this Xbox 360 is supposed to last for, what, 5 years? Will 512mb be enough 5 years from now? And given how cheap RAM is, why handicap the machine like this?

The Xbox's mere 64mb is what killed it, it's what ruined all those concurrently developed Xbox/PC titles (Deus Ex 2, Thief 3, Kotor). Such a small amount of memory seriously limited the size and detail of environments that developers could create.

Everything else though looks promising. I don't own a DVD player (have one in my computer) but plan to buy one since I'm moving into a new house and won't have the computer and TV in the same room. I've been thinking about getting an Xbox 360 for that. The lack of RAM does worry me though.

I wouldn't be surprised if you'd be able to upgrade the 360 to at least a gig of RAM.

[Mochan]

I wouldn't be surprised if you'd be able to upgrade the 360 to at least a gig of RAM.

http://mochan.ionichost.com/Obj_Nar.swf?inputStr=No%20console%20hardware%20upg rades!!!

[ThaMaskedGamer]

That's the best the PS2 has to offer to you. But not the best it has to offer. PS2 is clearly not your console of choice, simply because it doesn't have the games you want to play. Same as how the XBox is not the choice for me, since the games I could play on it, I could play better on the PC.

Almost all the games you mentioned, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, Splinter Cell, Doom 3, Half Life 2, Grand Theft Auto, they are all found on the PC, and are better there.

Why buy the PS2? It has the games I want. Super Robot Wars Alpha 2, MX, and Alpha 3, Front Mission 4, Disgaea, Stella Deus, Atelier Iris, Namco x Capcom, Shin Megami Tensei Nocturne, Digital Devil Saga, Breath of Fire V, Final Fantasy X, XII, Berserk, Metal Gear Solid 2, Devil May Cry series, Makai Kingdom, Tekken 5, (to name a few).

THESE are the best the PS2 has to offer, not GTA, which I consider to be one of the worst things you can get on the PS2 (since you can get better versions on just about any other system).

Can I get any of those on the Xbox? Or on the PC? No. That's why I get a PS2.


Well at least you have the guts to mention the little games you like. But after looking at your lists, even you must admit, those games are not AAA games. They are not great great games. Its okay if you enjoy the hell out of them though, but you can't compare those games to XBOX games. I think what has happened this generation, is the PS2 can't compete in big name AAA games, outside of J-RPG and Fighting games, so people have switched the focus to these niche games, but this is like saying Reservoir Dogs is a better movie than Star Wars. Now I love Resevoir Dogs, probably moreso or as much as Star Wars, but i'd be foolish to argue its better just cause I love it so.

Let's look at your list and we can see why the PS2 tanks compared to XBOX.

STELLA DEUS - This game is turn based J-RPG, anime, fantasy. And its not even GREAT J-RPG anime fantasy, its only rated about 75% overall.

Final Fantasy - Even if I liked this J-RPG aime fantasy stuff, this series is dead, the best has come an gone. But again, NOT EVERYONE CONSUMES this J-RPG stuff.

DISGAEA - HMMMMMMM did I mention I don't like turn based J-RPGs?

MetalGearSolid2 -Not gonna say anything about this game. Everyone knows how I feel about it. All i'll say is I've played it, and it is already available on XBOX. I think the fact that the game tanked on XBOX and was in the bargain a few months after it released says it all.

MAKAI KINGDOM - I guess this game isn't even out in the states, but I saw some screen shots and it looks just like a typical PS2, actually it looks worse. But I don't know how you can enjoy a game that isn't even out yet?

Atelier Iris - more turn-based J-RPG Anime

I'm not going to continue, you also listed a bunch of fighing games too, like Tekken5, cool if you like fighting games.

Mochan, you've basically proven my point. This is exactly what I said earlier. The PS2 is the console to own if you like J-RPG Anime and Fighting games. You also said you understand, technically the console is a dog. We are in agreement and have nothing to argue about. You love these games, but I don't and I would guess people playing XBOX don't like these games either.


What you don't seem to understand, or can't come to grips with, is how people can enjoy XBOX games over PC games. It seems your gaming solution is to use the PS2 and a PC in lieu of an XBOX. But you have proven my point to a tee. I really don't see what we are arguing about.

When you talk about the best XBOX games, Halo, Halo2, MotoGP2, Doom3, Splinter Cell(all of em), Rainbow, Ghost, MechAssault2, Ninja Gaiden, Oddworld, Panzer, PGR, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Full Spectrum, Forza all the best of the sports games, online games and XBOX Live, etc, the PS2 just can not compete. You think the PC can, but more than half of these games aren't on the PC, and many of them like Splinter Cell and KOTOR came to XBOX first. Others play much better on a console, like MOTOGP2. Hell in SC:PT you didn't even have standard voice chat over the net, like on LIVE.

But i'm going to stop. Because I can't debate with you, basically your position is to use the PC to try and combat the XBOX's strength, then state things that are false, like every XBOX game is on the PC, wrong. Then you use PS2, but only on the strength of J-RPGs and Fighters, knowing they are niche games and all the system is good at.

My point is the XBOX is a better console with better games than PS2 in the most popular genres.

[Zilla Man]

But after looking at your lists, even you must admit, those games are not AAA games. They are not great great games. Its okay if you enjoy the hell out of them though, but you can't compare those games to XBOX games.

Okay, so let me get this straight: FFX, MGS2, Devil May Cry, Tekken 5 are not "AAA" games? Despite the fact that they've proportionately outsold all the games you mentioned? Despite the fact that they're some of the highest rated games in the history of videogaming?

How about you go to Gamerankings and check the scores on the above games I mentioned?

My point is the XBOX is a better console with better games than PS2 in the most popular genres.

And your point would be wrong. Platformers and RPG's (Japanese or otherwise) are two of the most popular genres in gaming. And the PS2 has more highly rated games from this genre on them than Xbox does.

I think what has happened this generation, is the PS2 can't compete in big name AAA games, outside of J-RPG and Fighting games,

Riiiight. Is that why platformers like Jak & Daxter, Ratchet & Clank as well as action games like God of War, Metal Gear Solids 2 & 3, Devil May Cry 1 & 3 have been so highly ranked and sold millions of copies?

How about Gran Turismos 3 and 4? Are they J-RPG's or Fighter's? Twisted Metal Black?

you use PS2, but only on the strength of J-RPGs and Fighters, knowing they are niche games

Multimillion selling games like Tekken and FFX are niche games? I think someone needs to get a dictionary and look up the word "niche". :rolleyes:

[slade]

It's funny Daman brings up a review score for the first game and then jumps back on everything else. Pure comedy gold, my friend. Much like the following thread:

http://archive.videogamereview.com/03.04/0EECA94D.php

[Gadfly2317]

Well at least you have the guts to mention the little games you like. But after looking at your lists, even you must admit, those games are not AAA games.

Did you notice his list barely scratched the surface, with things like Twisted Metal Black, Culdcept, Viewtiful Joe 1&2, Gradius V, Gran Turismo, Devil May Cry, God of War, Ico, Amplitude, and the cream of platforming like Sly Cooper, DRatchet and Clank and Jax and Daxter. And tons of other games. Diversity and depth of library. . . Xbox can't touch it. And I barely scratched the surface of great games that are on the system with this smattering of games I just mentioned.

"AAA" is a concept I'm starting to abhor. Xbox looks to pump out an X-Treme Mountdew Boy big explosion graphic-whore version of tired genres. I'm not opposed that. . . I bought the Xbox in part for the few original games on it like PDO and Voodoo Vince, but also for those gorgeous racing games. There is nothing like racing on the Xbox.

But you said Mohan proved your point taht the Ps2 is the system for JRPG's and fighting games. That's absolute baloney. It also has the deepest selection of horror games, non-genre games, sports games, futuristic racers, shooters, and regular racers. It's got tactical games, and pretty much most of the Xbox library is on it as well.

But yes, FPS and Racers are absolutely superior and in greater number on Xbox, so if that's your thing, a narrow taste in games and a love of racing and shooting people online (and that's a perfectly valid preference) that is about the only place you can call Xbox superior. Because for anyone who likes lots of games of different types, and games that are outside the genre-box, Xbox is like a prison sentence.
.

My point is the XBOX is a better console with better games than PS2 in the most popular genres.