Not SONY?!

[Horngreen]

PSP processor capped




[15/04/05 15:34]
Sony has cut the processing power of PSP by a third, but why?


According to breaking internet reports, one third of PSP's processing power is currently sitting idle, capped by Sony to ensure a healthier battery life.

While the specification of Sony's new handheld states the machine has a 333mhz capable processor sitting beneath its cool-looking exterior, the machine has been capped to just 222mhz, according to a Sony America representative speaking at the Games Developers Conference in San Francisco last month.

But why?

This is something of a mystery, with popular opinion suggesting Sony capped the full potential of the machine simply to spare battery life, which does ring true when you consider that PSP's battery life was one of the most talked about features of the machine preceding its Japanese launch.

Further speculation suggests Sony will release a new, revised PSP package later in the handheld's lifespan, which will feature an uncapped processor and a battery capable of dealing with the extra processing load.

This could mean PSP games will look much more impressive in the future, possibly bettering what's possible on PS2 - a console that runs its processor at around 295mhz.

As for current PSP owners, it's suggested they'll be able to download some kind of software upgrade for the machine that will unlock PSP's full power, ensuring they don't have to endure horrible frame rates and potential system failures when playing newer games.

Current owners would also have to buy a newer battery to avoid increased battery consumption.

At this time, this is purely speculation and no one outside Sony really knows what's planned. It could just be a case that PSP's processor was capped to avoid overheating - a common problem with miniaturised devices.

Considering PSP's compact size and advanced (for a handheld) abilities, this is perhaps the most logical reason for the processor capping.

A cynic could also suggest Sony only bothered using the 333mhz chip because, quite simply, it looked good on the initial specification for the machine, and never really intended using it at full throttle.

[Jupiter_x]

If this turns out to be true, than how is this going to affect the compatibitly issues. This little bundle can do so much?

[folken001]

Wow, PSP is a handheld with 33% potential. Hmmmmm I LIKE

[Gadfly2317]

Whether this specific report is true (and it certainly makes sense) Early Adopters always get the shaft. . . . from Sony, sure, but from MS too with those crappy drives with a high failure rate, that controller everyone hated, so the redesigned and released a new one (another thing for early adopters to replace). . . and don't forget the melt-your carpet, lower-the-console-life, burn the house down powercord.

But then there's Nintendo. I felt no hesitation at all in buying a DS before even touching one. And sure enough, its rock solid, been dropped, had Jaegermeister spilled on it, and rattles around in my backpack or brief case with no additional protective case. And damn if it isn't providing me hella original gaming to boot, with zero load times.

But you know, I knew this going in, so I don't feel entitled to complain if I have to upgrade my battery and download something to take the governor off my PsP's processor. I never expected Sony to be up to par with Nintendo quality. . .but the PsP satisfies anyway.

I'll still use it as sys wars ammo though as to why the DS is the better system to pick up now: It is COMPLETE, it is BACKWARD COMPATIBLE, and it will KILL on both originality and on interface for complex rpg and strategy games that are menu heavy.

[Jupiter_x]

Whether this specific report is true (and it certainly makes sense) Early Adopters always get the shaft. . . . from Sony, sure, but from MS too with those crappy drives with a high failure rate, that controller everyone hated, so the redesigned and released a new one (another thing for early adopters to replace). . . and don't forget the melt-your carpet, lower-the-console-life, burn the house down powercord.

But then there's Nintendo. I felt no hesitation at all in buying a DS before even touching one. And sure enough, its rock solid, been dropped, had Jaegermeister spilled on it, and rattles around in my backpack or brief case with no additional protective case. And damn if it isn't providing me hella original gaming to boot, with zero load times.

But you know, I knew this going in, so I don't feel entitled to complain if I have to upgrade my battery and download something to take the governor off my PsP's processor. I never expected Sony to be up to par with Nintendo quality. . .but the PsP satisfies anyway.

I'll still use it as sys wars ammo though as to why the DS is the better system to pick up now: It is COMPLETE, it is BACKWARD COMPATIBLE, and it will KILL on both originality and on interface for complex rpg and strategy games that are menu heavy.


Well put my friend!

[folken001]

Whether this specific report is true (and it certainly makes sense) Early Adopters always get the shaft. . . . from Sony, sure, but from MS too with those crappy drives with a high failure rate, that controller everyone hated, so the redesigned and released a new one (another thing for early adopters to replace). . . and don't forget the melt-your carpet, lower-the-console-life, burn the house down powercord.

But then there's Nintendo. I felt no hesitation at all in buying a DS before even touching one. And sure enough, its rock solid, been dropped, had Jaegermeister spilled on it, and rattles around in my backpack or brief case with no additional protective case. And damn if it isn't providing me hella original gaming to boot, with zero load times.

But you know, I knew this going in, so I don't feel entitled to complain if I have to upgrade my battery and download something to take the governor off my PsP's processor. I never expected Sony to be up to par with Nintendo quality. . .but the PsP satisfies anyway.

I'll still use it as sys wars ammo though as to why the DS is the better system to pick up now: It is COMPLETE, it is BACKWARD COMPATIBLE, and it will KILL on both originality and on interface for complex rpg and strategy games that are menu heavy.
2347 posts...... Good job, gadfly. :)

[theWacoKid]

It's the reason I bought a prp. If something better comes along take the old psp in and get the new one. Ridge Racer runs at 60fps with all sorts of neat graphic effects, that's all I care about. Very few systems run full throttle to begin with.

[Brendon]

Remember that store demo unit, I'm pretty sure I already said this but it actually WARPED from the heat, can you imagine if that processor was actually running hot, it would probably set off the sprinklers.

[Gadfly2317]

Remember that store demo unit, I'm pretty sure I already said this but it actually WARPED from the heat, can you imagine if that processor was actually running hot, it would probably set off the sprinklers.

Mine barely even feels warm. Getting hot enough to warp that plastic? Something had to have been wrong with it I would think. Or maybe being plugged in and played non-stop for 12 hours is different. If that's the case, I guess we'll be seeing lots warped store demos, and if its not the case. . . we won't. (I guess that's stating the bloody obvious. . . . )

[theWacoKid]

Mine barely even feels warm. Getting hot enough to warp that plastic? Something had to have been wrong with it I would think. Or maybe being plugged in and played non-stop for 12 hours is different. If that's the case, I guess we'll be seeing lots warped store demos, and if its not the case. . . we won't. (I guess that's stating the bloody obvious. . . . )

Unfortunately, this poster is the one of the biggest liars on this board and has made crap up in the past. I can't even detect heat from mine. Total absolute BS about a unit getting hot enough to warp plastic. I've played my unit through a full battery cycle and it doesn't get hotter as you play.

[Renzatic Gear]

Read his post again, Waco.

[theWacoKid]

Read his post again, Waco.

I don't respond directly to whatisname, he's on my to ignore list so I don't read any of his actual so-called postings. There's no way, no how, a unit would get hot enough to warp the plastic unless the unit was somehow defective, and to be blunt, I doubt even then. This guy is a BS artist of the lowest order.

[Renzatic Gear]

lol, maybe it's time you took him off the ignore list instead of just assuming what he's saying and making you look weird in front of anyone else.

He said his barely even gets hot, then wondered what could cause the warping. He's not doing any BSing, in fact the warped PSP issue is fairly well know so it's not like he made it up off the top of his head.

[Horngreen]

I don't respond directly to whatisname, he's on my to ignore list so I don't read any of his actual so-called postings. There's no way, no how, a unit would get hot enough to warp the plastic unless the unit was somehow defective, and to be blunt, I doubt even then. This guy is a BS artist of the lowest order.


Uhhhh if he's on your "ignore" list why aren't you ignoring him?

[shogun]

This is much ado about nothing really, unless Sony doesn't provide a battery/cap-breaker solution for earlier PSP models. WipEout Pure and Ridge Racer look sweet regardless of if the CPU is capped. If the cap comes off later and better-looking games come out of it...well, that's even better.

[Glockstar]

Who's he talking about? Is he "ignoring" Brendon or Gadfly?

No offense to Gadfly, but if it's Brendon then Wacko really is effed in the head. There are a couple of liars here, but Brendon is not one of them.


-

Anyway, I am sooo glad I waited to get a PSP. And I will continue to wait!
Everyday I give myself a pat on the back for that.

[Gadfly2317]

Who's he talking about? Is he "ignoring" Brendon or Gadfly?

No offense to Gadfly, but if it's Brendon then Wacko really is effed in the head. There are a couple of liars here, but Brendon is not one of them.


-

Anyway, I am sooo glad I waited to get a PSP. And I will continue to wait!
Everyday I give myself a pat on the back for that.

I believe Waco saw Brendon's post because I quoted it when I responded to it.

I've never had any issues with Brendon's posts. . . I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he did indeed see a warped unit, whether it was warped by the heat, or a Nintendo fanboy working at the store who took a torch to it after hours.

All I was letting Brendon know is that my PsP barely feels warm, much less hot enough to warp plastic. I have no idea if battery power and plugged in power (plugged in for 12 hours) would make any temp difference--I'm inclined to think it could get warmer than mine does-- but I'm skeptical about high heat because the product is tested before its released, including the conditions the unit will face for display. No company is so stupid to put out display models if the know for a fact they are going to warp from extreme heat.

[Horngreen]

Is it possibly getting hot because he is accidentally using an Xbox power cord? ; ^)

[Brendon]

um, wow, that was a lot ado about nothing

Remember that this store demo was a first gen Japanese unit, and it is well known that people there were burning their hands on the things, it might even be related to the fact our power supply over here is way more powerful than yours, and the transformer was likely jerry rigged. either way, it's been replaced now, and the new one isn't as hot.

[GamerToday]

At least PSP has additional 1/3 cpu to use for future games. Imagine using near 100%

Unlike DS, it probably already near 100 capacity. PSP still runs rings around DS even at 2/3 capacity.

Remember, DS is a Kiddy handheld for children, and imature I have not grown up adults to still grasp to the old days. At least PSP is for the broad mass audience. You Nintendo Fanboys need to learn to accept it. No Grown Adult goiing to pay kiddy games by purchasing DS no matter it has two screens and Nintendo flagship title.

The the reason GAmecube never sold to the masses. It was views as console for kiddies like the DS. You can spend the rest of your life debating this point. People still see Nintendo as Kiddy company regardless with it attempt to grow up. It called BRANDing.

McDonalds - Hamburger and Fast Food.
BMW, Toyota, Ford = Cars
etc.

[Gadfly2317]

At least PSP has additional 1/3 cpu to use for future games. Imagine using near 100%

Unlike DS, it probably already near 100 capacity. PSP still runs rings around DS even at 2/3 capacity.

Remember, DS is a Kiddy handheld for children, and imature I have not grown up adults to still grasp to the old days. At least PSP is for the broad mass audience. You Nintendo Fanboys need to learn to accept it. No Grown Adult goiing to pay kiddy games by purchasing DS no matter it has two screens and Nintendo flagship title.

The the reason GAmecube never sold to the masses. It was views as console for kiddies like the DS. You can spend the rest of your life debating this point. People still see Nintendo as Kiddy company regardless with it attempt to grow up. It called BRANDing.

McDonalds - Hamburger and Fast Food.
BMW, Toyota, Ford = Cars
etc.

OK. . . I'm just checking here to see if you can read, and if you read responses to your posts. If so PLEASE RESPOND. You are close to ending up on my ignore list; I don't mind your assinine posts as long as will respond to the rebuttals.

OK. . . so NO GROWN ADULT is going to play the Kiddy games on DS? Please tell us what specifically is so "adult" about games on PsP like Lumines, Wipeout XL, or Ridge Racer (all games I own and enjoy, but which could appeal to all ages?)

And please tell me what is so "KIDDY" about the DS games like:

--Feel the Magic: a date-rape simulator.
--Sprung: Teen dating game.
--Caduceus: a game involving surgery.
--Gyatuken Saiban: A game where you are a lawyer.
--Another Code: A heavy-drama game comprised of both action and puzzle solving.
--Shin Megami Tensei: A demonic RPG
--Metroid Pinball: Enough said.
--Age of Empires: A PC strategy game
--Castlevania DS: Action


I could go on, but I won't. . . GAMER TODAY. .. PLEASE RESPOND. . . ANSWER SPECIFIC QUESTIONS SO WE KNOW YOU ARE HERE TO INTERACT, RATHER THAN JUST CRAPPING OUT YOUR STALE, CLICHED THOUGHTS ONTO THE BOARD.

If you can, answer ALL of these questions, PLEASE.

1.) Have you heard of these DS games?
2.) Have you seen screens and watched videos of these games?
3.) HOW are these games just for kiddys?
4.) Since GAMERS consider the puzzle game Lumines to be the coolest game on the PsP, and since the DS touch screen kicks ass for puzzle games, why wouldn't an adult enjoy DS puzzle games like Zookeeper, Meteos, and Polarium?
4.) Regarding PsP vs DS. . . If better graphics make a better game, how come Final Fantasy VII on Ps1 is still considered the best in the Final Fantasy series, and how come Zelda: LttP and Ocarina of Time still set the standard for the action-adventure genre?

GAMER TODAY. . . It is time for you to PUT UP or SHUT THE HELL UP.

[Renzatic Gear]

date-rape simulator? :confused:

[plan b]

A processor cap huh? Sort of reminds me of how some sport cars are electronically limited to 150-155 mph even though they can probably pull 200+ mph easy. Even though they can't reach their full potential, the speeds they can reach is still plenty fast. I believe the same applies to this as well.

[GamerToday]

OK. . . I'm just checking here to see if you can read, and if you read responses to your posts. If so PLEASE RESPOND. You are close to ending up on my ignore list; I don't mind your assinine posts as long as will respond to the rebuttals.

OK. . . so NO GROWN ADULT is going to play the Kiddy games on DS? Please tell us what specifically is so "adult" about games on PsP like Lumines, Wipeout XL, or Ridge Racer (all games I own and enjoy, but which could appeal to all ages?)

And please tell me what is so "KIDDY" about the DS games like:

--Feel the Magic: a date-rape simulator.
--Sprung: Teen dating game.
--Caduceus: a game involving surgery.
--Gyatuken Saiban: A game where you are a lawyer.
--Another Code: A heavy-drama game comprised of both action and puzzle solving.
--Shin Megami Tensei: A demonic RPG
--Metroid Pinball: Enough said.
--Age of Empires: A PC strategy game
--Castlevania DS: Action


I could go on, but I won't. . . GAMER TODAY. .. PLEASE RESPOND. . . ANSWER SPECIFIC QUESTIONS SO WE KNOW YOU ARE HERE TO INTERACT, RATHER THAN JUST CRAPPING OUT YOUR STALE, CLICHED THOUGHTS ONTO THE BOARD.

If you can, answer ALL of these questions, PLEASE.

1.) Have you heard of these DS games?
2.) Have you seen screens and watched videos of these games?
3.) HOW are these games just for kiddys?
4.) Since GAMERS consider the puzzle game Lumines to be the coolest game on the PsP, and since the DS touch screen kicks ass for puzzle games, why wouldn't an adult enjoy DS puzzle games like Zookeeper, Meteos, and Polarium?
4.) Regarding PsP vs DS. . . If better graphics make a better game, how come Final Fantasy VII on Ps1 is still considered the best in the Final Fantasy series, and how come Zelda: LttP and Ocarina of Time still set the standard for the action-adventure genre?

GAMER TODAY. . . It is time for you to PUT UP or SHUT THE HELL UP.


Your just angry, because I not one of the brainwash groupee that buys in the Nintendo Propaganda. I do not believe in whole gaming world revolves around Nintendo. Nintendo is not the chosen Gaming God of all video and console games. I do not believe in any with Nintendo label is automatically the greatest in to human contribution. It is such narrowminded thinking that every game that on Nintendo is best, funiest, innovative nad most playable, best graphics, etc. Anyone thinks everything Nintendo makes is great and anything make by Sony or Xbox is crap. I been watching this forum and others. All i see is Nintendo prophetizing everything Nintendo and everything Sony or XBox is junk. I do not see anything special about Nintendo. Just some people who can let go of the past.

Time to Move on, the world has and humanity has move on.

[Sublime 23]

He's not angry because your not brainwashed by Nintendo propaganda. He's angry because you lack the required equipment for a brainwashing and that you continually try and claim that others are ignorant when in all actuality you're the one who won't listen to anyone or anything. At least everyone can agree that Nintendo has done SOMETHING right; They don't have to worry about having you as one of their fans, because based on your posts, one would only assume Nintendo fans to be mindless, ignorant, egocentric, grammarphobes.

[Gadfly2317]

Your just angry, because I not one of the brainwash groupee that buys in the Nintendo Propaganda. I do not believe in whole gaming world revolves around Nintendo. Nintendo is not the chosen Gaming God of all video and console games. I do not believe in any with Nintendo label is automatically the greatest in to human contribution. It is such narrowminded thinking that every game that on Nintendo is best, funiest, innovative nad most playable, best graphics, etc. Anyone thinks everything Nintendo makes is great and anything make by Sony or Xbox is crap. I been watching this forum and others. All i see is Nintendo prophetizing everything Nintendo and everything Sony or XBox is junk. I do not see anything special about Nintendo. Just some people who can let go of the past.

Time to Move on, the world has and humanity has move on.

OK, off come the gloves little boy.

Did some one scoop out your brain and fill your paper thin skull with aphids and partially digested Chicken Mcnuggets? ANSWER THE QUESTIONS. . . don't change the topic. The topic isn't whether Nintendo is the GOD OF GAMING or that EVERYTHING THEY DO IS PERFECT. Are you freaking arguing with the voices in your head?--because NO ONE HERE has ever said anything like that about Nintendo. Are you some encephalitic bed-wetting 12 year old who has to pretend to hate Nintendo so everyone will realize that YOU are no kiddy! Because that's what your schtick looks like to everyone here, even the xbots.

Knock knock? We were talking about your statement "DS is a Kiddy handheld for children, and imature I have not grown up adults to still grasp to the old days. At least PSP is for the broad mass audience. You Nintendo Fanboys need to learn to accept it. No Grown Adult goiing to pay kiddy games by purchasing DS no matter it has two screens and Nintendo flagship title.

THAT is what we're talking about. Why an adult would game on DS. If you'll pay any attention to what people are saying, you'll notice we're not all Nintendo robots, many of us game on multiple systems. I game on them all. Several others here with DS's or interested in DS's are also into the PsP. We've got Xbots with no Ps2 who have a PsP. Some people here say that ONLY kiddies would be into ANY kind of handheld because "handhelds are for kids, not grown up gamers with HD TV's with Surround sound." And maybe THEY are right. And if you pay any attention, you'll notice MANY adults here with DS's, including travelling businessmen who in addition to the DS, game on PDA's and PsP.

You made a statement. So when called on it, back it up, don't wimp out and change the topic. You wanna hang with the slobbering rabid dogs on this message board--and you are welcome to hang here if you want--then google, do your research, look at the games on the system you are dissing so you know what you are talking about. You said the DS only had kiddy games no adult would play. When provided with a list of games, and list of quesitons about those games, you changed the topic to some weird thing no one has even said---NO ONE HERE THINKS NINTENDO IS PERFECT AND FLAWLESS. Let go of the voices in your head and actually engage in what is being said HERE, if you are going to post HERE.

So here's your chance--DS only for kiddys? Respond to each question--I will post them again--this is a test of your manhood and brainpower. Fail, and you are doomed:

Please tell us what specifically is so "adult" about games on PsP like Lumines, Wipeout XL, or Ridge Racer (all games I own and enjoy, but which could appeal to all ages?) I'm not asking if they are "good or bad"--these games are GREAT, but why are they "adult" and not "kiddy?"

And please tell me what is so "KIDDY" about the DS games like:

--Feel the Magic: a coochie-poking simulator.
--Sprung: Text based dating game.
--Caduceus: Surgery! How kiddy is that?
--Gyatuken Saiban: You get to be freaking Perry Mason. Thanks CAPCOM!!
--Another Code: A heavy-drama game comprised of both action and puzzle solving.
--Shin Megami Tensei: A demonic RPG. Silly Wabbit, Demons are for Kiddies!
--Metroid Pinball: Who isn't salivating for a long verticle screen handheld METROID pinball?
--Age of Empires: A PC strategy game. Probably right over your head, Child Today.
--Castlevania DS: Action


Please answer EACH numbered question:

If you can, answer ALL of these questions, PLEASE.

1.) Have you heard of these DS games? Yes or No?
2.) Have you seen screens and watched videos of these games?Yes or No?
3.) HOW are these games just for kiddys?
4.) Since GAMERS consider the puzzle game Lumines to be the coolest game on the PsP, and since the DS touch screen kicks ass for puzzle games, why wouldn't an adult enjoy DS puzzle games like Zookeeper, Meteos, and Polarium? ANSWER!!!!!!
4.) Regarding PsP vs DS. . . If better graphics make a better game, how come Final Fantasy VII on Ps1 is still considered the best in the Final Fantasy series, and how come Zelda: LttP and Ocarina of Time still set the standard for the action-adventure genre?

GAMER TODAY. . . It is time for you to PUT UP or SHUT THE HELL UP.

Seriously. Otherwise, lurk awhile, figure stuff out, do your research, and come back when you've got something real to say.

[GamerToday]

1.) Have you heard of these DS games? Yes ?

2.) Have you seen screens and watched videos of these games?Yes

3.) HOW are these games just for kiddys? Simple, People think Nintendo is console or handheld for kiddies. No matter now many adult games made for DS, people has to buy the DS to play the Titles you listed. If you they see it as Kiddie, they are not going to buy it. NO DS, No DS games. NO sane person will buy the DS games without owning DS. So keep preaching about the DS titles. DS titles are uselss with actual DS.

4.) Since GAMERS consider the puzzle game Lumines to be the coolest game on the PsP, and since the DS touch screen kicks ass for puzzle games, why wouldn't an adult enjoy DS puzzle games like Zookeeper, Meteos, and Polarium? ANSWER!!!!!! Adults see DS as a Kiddy toy. It called Brand Image, like ppl see Mcdonalds as fast food not sit luxary gourmet. Nintendo need to get the kiddy image out, it will cost them tens of billions. Guess what? It will fail. Kiddy Image will not translate to adults buying DS for limited titles of non-kiddy game. PSP will offer more bang for the buck. Remember the Gamecube, people see Gamecube as console for kiddies. Nintendo had non-kiddy games along with the lower price. Guess What? Gamecube sold less consoles than PS2 and Xbox. AT one time, the Gamecube even sold less than PS1 in certain markets.


5.) Regarding PsP vs DS. . . If better graphics make a better game, how come Final Fantasy VII on Ps1 is still considered the best in the Final Fantasy series, and how come Zelda: LttP and Ocarina of Time still set the standard for the action-adventure genre? I agree on Final Fantasy. Zelda is a myth by Nintendo Fanboys and Nintendo. If you look at PC market, the are actions-adventurs games has set standard before any Zelda. The same for the Mac too. PS1 and Sega had it share of stand of Action-Adventure. Again, Nintendo Fanboys thinking anything Nintendo set some standard. Let say, Zelda did set the stand for Action-adventure game. Do the mass market, adults and kiddies care? NO most people do not care about Nintendo has done in the past, they live for today.


The only thing good about Nintendo. They took the advantage of market that did not really existed with NES and SNES. They bully retailers in not sell competitor console, aka Sega. They bully 3rd party developers in high licensing fees, delaying game development for Nintendo own 1st-party titles and limiting 3rd party creativity so Nintendo get all the glory. Sony was the true competition that humble Nintendo with Ps1. Microsoft join Sony in humbling Nintendo with Xbox & PS2.

Now, with the introduction of PSP. Sony humble Nintendo again by introducting competiton. Also, Nokia helped a little in humbling Nintendo. Cell Phone are getting pretty advance with games, it is consider hand held. Every play Might and Magic on your Cell phone? I would not be surprise on Microsoft introducing their handheld or games for the PSP.

Last I check, most 3rd developers are loyal to Sony. The are giving the same loyalty to Microsoft. Many has lost respect for Nintendo, that why you see few games coming for the Gamecube with translate to few games for Revolution. PSP is already outselling DS, eventually developers will abandon or limit DS developement like the did for Gamecube.
3rd Party developers prefer to develop for the Broad Market rather than niche market.

[Brendon]

3) In all fairness, I would give my right arm to continue life not being one of those people, and what in the hell is all that about needing the DS to play the games??

4) Kiddy, Kiddy, Kiddy, that is really not a subjective buying argument for a games console. I don't get it, do you actually WANT to be one of these morons.

5) I read the question, then the answer, then the question, then the answer. After an hour of repeating this process my Kiddy-addled brain finally figured out I was looking at two completely seperate entities with no relation to each other.

look kid, I'll stop poking fun and just point it out, everybody else has figured out the Nintendo are never going to have the bulk of the market share again, we also all understand that the make a healthy profit so they are unlikely to suddenly change direction for the direct competition route and commit Hari-Kari. Accept it and move on.

[Gadfly2317]

1.) Have you heard of these DS games? Yes ?

2.) Have you seen screens and watched videos of these games?Yes

3.) HOW are these games just for kiddys? Simple, People think Nintendo is console or handheld for kiddies. No matter now many adult games made for DS, people has to buy the DS to play the Titles you listed. If you they see it as Kiddie, they are not going to buy it. NO DS, No DS games. NO sane person will buy the DS games without owning DS. So keep preaching about the DS titles. DS titles are uselss with actual DS.

4.) Since GAMERS consider the puzzle game Lumines to be the coolest game on the PsP, and since the DS touch screen kicks ass for puzzle games, why wouldn't an adult enjoy DS puzzle games like Zookeeper, Meteos, and Polarium? ANSWER!!!!!! Adults see DS as a Kiddy toy. It called Brand Image, like ppl see Mcdonalds as fast food not sit luxary gourmet. Nintendo need to get the kiddy image out, it will cost them tens of billions. Guess what? It will fail. Kiddy Image will not translate to adults buying DS for limited titles of non-kiddy game. PSP will offer more bang for the buck. Remember the Gamecube, people see Gamecube as console for kiddies. Nintendo had non-kiddy games along with the lower price. Guess What? Gamecube sold less consoles than PS2 and Xbox. AT one time, the Gamecube even sold less than PS1 in certain markets.


5.) Regarding PsP vs DS. . . If better graphics make a better game, how come Final Fantasy VII on Ps1 is still considered the best in the Final Fantasy series, and how come Zelda: LttP and Ocarina of Time still set the standard for the action-adventure genre? I agree on Final Fantasy. Zelda is a myth by Nintendo Fanboys and Nintendo. If you look at PC market, the are actions-adventurs games has set standard before any Zelda. The same for the Mac too. PS1 and Sega had it share of stand of Action-Adventure. Again, Nintendo Fanboys thinking anything Nintendo set some standard. Let say, Zelda did set the stand for Action-adventure game. Do the mass market, adults and kiddies care? NO most people do not care about Nintendo has done in the past, they live for today.


The only thing good about Nintendo. They took the advantage of market that did not really existed with NES and SNES. They bully retailers in not sell competitor console, aka Sega. They bully 3rd party developers in high licensing fees, delaying game development for Nintendo own 1st-party titles and limiting 3rd party creativity so Nintendo get all the glory. Sony was the true competition that humble Nintendo with Ps1. Microsoft join Sony in humbling Nintendo with Xbox & PS2.

Now, with the introduction of PSP. Sony humble Nintendo again by introducting competiton. Also, Nokia helped a little in humbling Nintendo. Cell Phone are getting pretty advance with games, it is consider hand held. Every play Might and Magic on your Cell phone? I would not be surprise on Microsoft introducing their handheld or games for the PSP.

Last I check, most 3rd developers are loyal to Sony. The are giving the same loyalty to Microsoft. Many has lost respect for Nintendo, that why you see few games coming for the Gamecube with translate to few games for Revolution. PSP is already outselling DS, eventually developers will abandon or limit DS developement like the did for Gamecube.
3rd Party developers prefer to develop for the Broad Market rather than niche market.

Cool, Gamer Today. Congratulations on a much better response than I expected. I kinda felt like I had to curb check your head to get it, but thank you for responding.

I think I can keep the response pretty simple, because more or less, you had a similar response to each question--basically that those games I listed don't matter because Nintendo is "viewed" as kiddy. It doesn't matter if Nintendo (and third parties, which make the majority of those games I listed) produces quality original games targeted at adults if gamers still "perceive" nintendo to be for kiddy's. If that is true, then the problem lies in part with those holding an uninformed opinion, not the quality, originality, creativity, or suitablity of the system for gamers of all ages. In other words, adults who know better will enjoy playing wi-fi online strategy games on DS. Insecure adolescents trying to prove they are adult by what kind of system they own will miss out on good games. Poor them.

That's your best, most valid point--that there are people who perceive Nintendo as for kids. It is true that a lot of people who aren't very informed about Nintendo and it's library (both on GC and DS) consider Nintendo a kids company. And it's true that Nintendo as a developer actually is more kid-friendly (or all-ages friendly) than Sony and MS, which is fine. Kid's should be able to game too, eh?

I would agree you are right that there are people who won't buy a DS because they see it as "kiddy" and who will have no idea what kind of games are actually there. But we're talking perception vs reality. There are plenty of teen and adult gamers who own GBA's, so it stands to reason many will game on DS, and its not just fanboys. Many older gamers are enthusiastic about many of the things coming to DS.

You said "No DS, No DS games." There are a LOT more DS's out there than there are PsP's so far. And that's without any of the really good games for the DS even being out yet.

"Adult" vs "Kiddy" is the thing that cracks me up the most around here because the whole argument comes from a kiddy mentality. Adults enjoy watching both Finding Nemo and Pulp Fiction. What is so "adult" about playing games at all? Many people view it as symptomatic of a case of bad protracted adolesence. . . adults wasting their time playing with "toys" when they could be doing something useful and productive. After all, playing with toys as a kid is to prepare you as an adult to actually DO stuff, not to just keep on playing.

Your other notion that because GC sold fewer systems than Xbox and Ps2 means it has bad games is a little ludicrous. This is also one of the most tiresome arguments, so here's the tired response: Does that mean Britney Spears and Back Street Boys are "better" musicians than John Zorn, Sleepytime Gorilla Museum, and The Melvins?

I don't think either PsP or DS are going to become dominated by adult gamers, but open minded adult gamers with good taste and too much time on their hands will find great games to play on both systems, and the mindless herd of fans will continue to fuel key titles and stereotypes (GTA and sports titles on PsP) and yet another Mario Kart selling like hotcakes on DS while some of those original titles I mentioned will unfortunately sell like crap.

You seem to like Final Fantasy. You do realize that Nintendo isn't the only company making games of the DS? Square-enix is relesasing Final Fantasy III in the US finally on the DS, as well as Crystal Chronicles and a new Mana game. You ought to try these RPG's when they come out, and see if you don't think a touch screen is a fast intuitive way to navigate item/inventory/spell/map menus rather than the old fashioned and tedious way--with a thumbstick--like you'll have to do on a PsP.

[GamerToday]

No matter how many 3rd party make games for DS. Nintendo still has the Kiddy Image. In time, PSP sales will outsell DS in both units and overall units. 3rd Parties will stop or delay DS developement as they did for Gamecube.

A big Nintendo Fanboy notion is game ratings and grades. It sad than many Nintendo fanboys depend so much in buying and playing games on game rating and grade. Over the last few year on this board, Nintendo fanboys will constantly compare and brag the few titles on gamecube with high rating as the complete gauss for entire console gaming industry especially Nintendo Flagship mascot product. They fail to see if the game is worth playing and most importantly appeal to the broad market and different market targets.

They keep assume most of the Nintendo Flagship mascot product target for every age, gender, genre, etc. They fail to realize until probably recently, the gaming market has change. Hardcore gamers no long determine the market, the mass market determine the market. The something Nintendo with hardcore gamers espically NIntendo fanboys fail to realize. The mass market do not care about Mario, Luigi, Starfox, Links, Metroid. Those games mostly for the hardcore gamers plus exceptions.

That is Sony biggest strengh and Microsoft realize it quickly. I doubt even today, Nintendo full comprehend it. Sony along with Microsoft(most of the time) allow game developers including 1st party to develope diversity of games targeting every market segment. Each market segment has multiple choices not a limited few like Gamecube market.

Little Girls LIke Hello Kiddy. Grandpa likes FPS or Military Simulation. Hard Core Gamers like God of War and GTA serries. Dad like Sports. Mom like Sims! Grandma like Jeopardy. Joe Like Japanese RPGs. Robert like AMerican RPG. Sam like WW2 FPS. Mary like Vietname RPG. Ruth like Space Games. Sony and Microsoft has several games in each those genres.
Nintendo lucky even allow 1 title especially if it develope by 3rd party.

The same will happen between PSP vs DS. PSP does more than play games like movies and MP3. That will sell more PSP units which translate to more units in customers hands. This will translate to more game been develop. More units means more chances to sell a game title.

Sony with 80 million PS2 versu Gamecube 25 million. That means I can create a game even if not a high rating still matain a reasonable return on investment and profitability. Game like Knight Ridder 27.6%, Frogger: the Great Quest 31.5 and Fight Club 35.2% sell enough units to break even, mimize the lost or main a reasonable profitabilty because of the broad market. You can get the same result from Nintendo.

History will repeat itself with PSP vs DS.

[Gadfly2317]

No matter how many 3rd party make games for DS. Nintendo still has the Kiddy Image. In time, PSP sales will outsell DS in both units and overall units. 3rd Parties will stop or delay DS developement as they did for Gamecube.

I'm a Nintendo fan who also thinks PsP will outsell DS in the long run. Everyone knows Nintendo has problems with a kiddy image, which they are trying to change. I guess we'll see if they have any success.


A big Nintendo Fanboy notion is game ratings and grades. It sad than many Nintendo fanboys depend so much in buying and playing games on game rating and grade. Over the last few year on this board, Nintendo fanboys will constantly compare and brag the few titles on gamecube with high rating as the complete gauss for entire console gaming industry especially Nintendo Flagship mascot product. They fail to see if the game is worth playing and most importantly appeal to the broad market and different market targets.

All fans of any system brag about the highly rated hits, as well as the niche "gamers games" their system has. Xbots do it. Sony fans do it, too, to a lesser extent, because as you say, on Ps2 there are a LOT more titles.

GC has a wide range of 1st and 3rd party titles. If Pandarbock is around, maybe he'll post the list of titles he owns. As a multi-system gamer, I'm one of those guys you are talking about who sticks mostly to the highly rated games and exclusives, and I hadn't had any idea just how many games there were on GC.


They keep assume most of the Nintendo Flagship mascot product target for every age, gender, genre, etc. They fail to realize until probably recently, the gaming market has change. Hardcore gamers no long determine the market, the mass market determine the market. The something Nintendo with hardcore gamers espically NIntendo fanboys fail to realize. The mass market do not care about Mario, Luigi, Starfox, Links, Metroid. Those games mostly for the hardcore gamers plus exceptions.

Mascot fatigue. Yes. But Nintendo, especially with the DS and even on the GC is working to get and to create new titles. It is irritating when Nintendo fans ignore the new stuff in favor of their favorite sequels.

That's the thing. You are stating the obvious things. . . image issues and sales issues, and not really dealing with the system and the games themselves. You say stuff like "it doesn't matter how many third party titles" and apparently, it doesn't matter how many new and original older targetted games Nintendo creates like "Another Code" all you care about is the old stereotype and the sales issues.

As a gamer the biggest thing I care about is playing great games. Yes, I'd like to see Nintendo's sales be strong so they can afford to keep making great games. But what's your issue with "mass market" being better than stuff for hardcore gamers and game fans? Are you saying you are a mass market gamer who prefers stuff like The Sims and Fight Club? Are you saying that's what you want the industries focus to be? Do you think since Ps2 is #1 that no one should have a choice of other type of games (and Nintendo definitely offers an alternative type of gaming to what Ps2 and PsP offer.)


That is Sony biggest strengh and Microsoft realize it quickly. I doubt even today, Nintendo full comprehend it. Sony along with Microsoft(most of the time) allow game developers including 1st party to develope diversity of games targeting every market segment. Each market segment has multiple choices not a limited few like Gamecube market.

Little Girls LIke Hello Kiddy. Grandpa likes FPS or Military Simulation. Hard Core Gamers like God of War and GTA serries. Dad like Sports. Mom like Sims! Grandma like Jeopardy. Joe Like Japanese RPGs. Robert like AMerican RPG. Sam like WW2 FPS. Mary like Vietname RPG. Ruth like Space Games. Sony and Microsoft has several games in each those genres.
Nintendo lucky even allow 1 title especially if it develope by 3rd party.

The same will happen between PSP vs DS. PSP does more than play games like movies and MP3. That will sell more PSP units which translate to more units in customers hands. This will translate to more game been develop. More units means more chances to sell a game title.

Sony with 80 million PS2 versu Gamecube 25 million. That means I can create a game even if not a high rating still matain a reasonable return on investment and profitability. Game like Knight Ridder 27.6%, Frogger: the Great Quest 31.5 and Fight Club 35.2% sell enough units to break even, mimize the lost or main a reasonable profitabilty because of the broad market. You can get the same result from Nintendo.

History will repeat itself with PSP vs DS.

First, your statement is laughable that Xbox offers several titles of all types of games.

Again, we all know that Ps2's large marketshare means you can create crap like Knight Rider and still have it sell. Whoo hooo! :rolleyes: You've got to be freaking kidding. . . you are actually defending sony becuase of crap like Fight Club?

I totally agree that it's cool to get innovative little titles that don't necessarily have to get 80 and 90 scores to be good. I loved Cubivore even though it's a high 60's low 70's scoring game. But dude, stuff like Fight Club that sell totally on the movie's name, those things are basically crime against gaming.

Again, I don't exactly disagree with your main assessment. I also see the PsP ultimately having more MASS MARKET appeal with things like the Mp3 and Movies.

But as a hardcore adult gamer who's gamed for a long time and grown a bit jaded, I'm looking for something different. And DS is different and its a kick ass refreshingly original gaming experience with a lot of great titles on the way. . .with WAY more diversity in what's announced so far than the EA heavy sports and cars and action console-style crap on the way for the PsP. WHO CARES about the mass market? What if Nintendo completely shifted its focus. . . then WHY would I need a Nintendo system at all if it provided the SAME type of stuff as Sony?

I think we are talking past each other. You seem fixated on stereotypes and mass market sales. I'm talking about quality and originality and GAMES. This started in part with you saying things like Nintendo games are on par with Pong graphically. That only brainwashed fanboys will play Nintendo. Then you switch and claim its only hardcore gamers who play Nintendo and its high scoring games, and that they've blown it by not having more mass market crap like Knight Rider and Fight Club.

The point is, Nintendo (both GC and DS) offer a killer and different alternative. It would be a more boring gaming world if SONY were all there was too choose from. I don't mind something that is in second or third; I don't want to live in a world dominated by monopolies (which is why I'm glad the PsP is introducing competition against the Nintendo handheld monopoly. . .competition has made Nintendo strive for greater things with the DS than it was on its GBA.)

Screw the mass market. I shop at my local farmers market and my local butcher, NOT WAL-MART. Just because something's #1 doesn't make it good.

On PsP vs DS. . . I own Ridge Racer, Lumines, Wipeout XL, and Mercury. All I'm really looking at in the future that has been announced is Smart Bomb, Death Jr, and maybe Infected and Hot Shots Golf. But I see a LOT of crap on the horizon.

Here's what this open-minded adult gamer is looking forward to on the DS regardless of what the mass-market buys, and notice it is not filled with Mario and Pokemon and Starfox:

Nintendogs
Advance Wars DS
Electroplankton
Meteos
Animal Crossing
Age of Empires
Katamari Damacy
Polarium
Another Code
Gyatuken Saiban
New Super Mario Bros
Castlevania DS
Harvest Moon DS
Final Fantasy III
Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles
Secret of Mana
Nanostray (shooter):
Shin Megami Tensei DS
Caduceus (a surgery game)
Lost in Blue (Survival RPG about two characters lost and trying to survive
on a deserted island.)?Konami
Metroid Pinball

[GamerToday]

At least game from crap to great games and still be profitable.
You can do that with Nintendo. On Nintendo, game developer make lots of money or lose lots of money with the exception of multiplatform.

Your list of games minsut some key 3rd party titles which will be available on PSP are only be purchase by hard core games not the mass market.

The only reason why Nintendo games get high score because it skewed. Some of the peopel reviewing the games have the fanboy syndrome. So they do not give a accurate unbias review.
Any Nintendo Game score, should be discounted by 15-20%.

As for Quality, Sony and Xbox has many quality titles. Most Nintendo Fanboys fail to see it because it not make for Nintendo. As for for Nintendo Quality, divide it by 2. Many of the Nintendo are called quality because fanboys hype it up. If exact Fight Clubs was exclusive for Gamecube, Nintendo fanboys will give it a high rating calling it quality and innovation. If Metroid Prime or above titles was made for Sony or Xbox instead of Nintendo, you guys will call it crap, no innvation, etc.

Nintendo is just a game console/game publisher who manage to market crap and false impression passing it as quality and innvoation. They manage to convince hardcore gamers that they are all this and that.

One final thing. Sony and Xbox has all these titles available from crap to quality titles especially Sony. Each of the titles are created by some game developer. Those game developers employs anywhere from 5 to 100 of people which leads to 1000s of employed people around the world.
Imagine Nintendo had the market, they will try to control and restrict all the 3rd party devolpers, a smaller gaming industry. We all know Nintendo racketering, bulling and maniupulation of the gameing history. The Fight club probaly employ at least 5 people.

[Renzatic Gear]

OMG CIRCULAR ARGUMENTS GALORE!

Just give up, Gadfly. You won't get through to the guy no matter how hard you try.

[Gadfly2317]

OMG CIRCULAR ARGUMENTS GALORE!

Just give up, Gadfly. You won't get through to the guy no matter how hard you try.

Yeah, I know. But quality of answers aside, I was honestly surprised and impressed that the guy made a real attempt to rebut a specific set of questions and statements. That was more than I could ever get Moody to do.

[theWacoKid]

Yeah, I know. But quality of answers aside, I was honestly surprised and impressed that the guy made a real attempt to rebut a specific set of questions and statements. That was more than I could ever get Moody to do.

I was suprised you'd bother debating with a grammar school dropoutl. If he had a point in the drivel he posted, he hid it extremely well. I figured you used his posts as a tangent to launch into pro DS mode. On a side note, I bought some gba games today, don't ask me why, I don't have a gba or ds as of yet. But, EB had a buy 3 get one free used game promotion. I bought Super Mario World, WarioWare, Final Fantasy Tactics, and Advance Wars 2. All the manuals were in excellent condition and although I spent $97.50 canadian, I wound up saving $90 canadian over buying them new.

I think I'm trying to talk myself into buying either a gba or ds.

[Gadfly2317]

I was suprised you'd bother debating with a grammar school dropoutl. If he had a point in the drivel he posted, he hid it extremely well. I figured you used his posts as a tangent to launch into pro DS mode.

Well, here's the real deal. I'm not entirely the elitist intellectual snob I come off as sometimes. I'm no grammar nazi either. I think this poster is more likely someone with English as a second language, because even though the points are crude, there are consistent quirks that appear in reasonable intelligent people who are not fluent in the language.

And yes, his points are pointless and simple, but they are in fact an extreme extension, and therefore a mockery of what the more articluate xbots like Glock like to say. With a better grasp of English, this poster could well have been Glock. (sorry old buddy, old comrade old pal, but you have it coming.) I mean, if it were intentional, Gamer Today beautiful sums up the anti-GC arguments in such a way as to render them absurd. So there was no need to rebutt him at all.

It's this: He posts here, he wants to be a Systems Warrior, but he was kinda of flying solo, pooping out proclamations and never responding when people would point out things. People thought I hated Moody because he was ignorant. It wasn't that, it was that he was just flapping self-aggrandinzing clutter and would never engage or respond; constantly change the topic when called out on a stupid statement.

I've seen people come here gung-ho to destroy or praise or whatever their agenda, but if they can learn the ropes and actually interact and show that they read what's going on here, there's a chance they could evolve. G-Today may not, but at least he made a real attempt to engage my post, and for that I give him credit.

Finally, I admit, I was doing a little "sounding out to see if it was Moody." I was contacted recently by good old Moody, Evolution, and he seemed to signal that his return is imminent (so fixated is he, that I would not put it past him to move to another state, but a new computer. . .whatever it takes.) Moody knows we catch him because of his grammar quirks, so I thought maybe he was trying to hide those by doing an easterner-english with the weird subject verb agreement, and the cliche dropping of linking verbs like "is" and "are" and dropping "s's" like "Nintendo know it games are no good."

But truthfully, after prodding, I'm convinced it's not Moody. . . he's not capable of mainting consistency with a phony grammar style in order to throw us off the scent.



On a side note, I bought some gba games today, don't ask me why, I don't have a gba or ds as of yet. But, EB had a buy 3 get one free used game promotion. I bought Super Mario World, WarioWare, Final Fantasy Tactics, and Advance Wars 2. All the manuals were in excellent condition and although I spent $97.50 canadian, I wound up saving $90 canadian over buying them new.

I think I'm trying to talk myself into buying either a gba or ds.

WACO!!!! You're almost there. That is what I ALWAYS do right before the imminent purchase of a new system. I always get the games first. . . then its just a week or two before cracking and getting the system.

I'm telling you. . get the DS, even if all you have so far are GBA games. They look THAT much better--seriously. Does anywhere rent DS games? I know you are not wanting to spend $30 on new DS games, especially since the really great ones are still on the way.

Of the ones I own, if I could only recommend one, I just don't know what it would be. I LOVE Polarium which just came out, I think I like the core game style just a little bit better than Lumines, BUT, lumines presentation, atmosphere, music, everything so excels, and that's part of what you do with these puzzle games anyway. . the point is to get into that hypno-trance state. Polariums music will not do that. Admittedly, it's not THAT big a deal, I just turn off the music, push up the volume on the sound-effects, and play what I want on the stero.

But its overpriced. Should have been $19 (and not because of the black and white--which is actually pretty striking looking.) They are ALL little games except Mario 64, and I'm guessing the control screen really will bug you (you've said it often enough it will have to be true. . . I didn't find the control much of an issue, it was a fair trade for such a vast game, nice alterations to play with 4 characters, 30 minigames (great minigames too I might add.)

But those GBA games (Advance Wars and FFTactics!!!!!) will keep you plenty busy until some meatier DS content arrives (I'm very curious how FFIII is going to turn out.

Well, I have no ending for this disparate rambling, so. . . . . .The End.

[GamerToday]

I was suprised you'd bother debating with a grammar school dropoutl. .....


Why are you a Racist? Just because someone disagree with you, it is time to be a Racist. It is time to question their language ability. One thing I notice by some people, they will use people language ability, racism, bias, cultural bias as a counter arguement tactic. Let change the topic by looking for some type non-related tactic to try to insult people especially people with a different opinion. It is sad that some people has to attribute to such a shady tactics.

English is my Second Language. Also, I speak Chinese Mandarian, Chinese-Cantonese, Indonesian, Dutch, Swedish and German. By the way, your English grammar is not exactly perfect either, yet I will never use these shady tactics and bias. Again, it is sad that some people has to attribute to such a shady tactics.

Returning to the topic:

Why do some of you need to shove NINTENDOism upon everyone? The market will determine console and handheld winner. It will not be Nintendo. Nintendo has barely change there business practice since the NES. It will ensure they will not dominate next console war and hurt harshly by the handheld market.

I do notice a pattern use by Nintendo fanboys especially in last few years. I called it LIST EFFECT. The List Effect is to list a set of Game Nintendo game titles then think it to convert the entire world to switch to Nintendo. They have this delusion of Grandeur of everyone will abandon the competition for Nintendo. They assume all gamers think alike and focus on only on predominatly Nintendo flagship characters and game score. .

[theWacoKid]

Why are you a Racist? Just because someone disagree with you, it is time to be a Racist. It is time to question their language ability. One thing I notice by some people, they will use people language ability, racism, bias, cultural bias as a counter arguement tactic. Let change the topic by looking for some type non-related tactic to try to insult people especially people with a different opinion. It is sad that some people has to attribute to such a shady tactics.

English is my Second Language. Also, I speak Chinese Mandarian, Chinese-Cantonese, Indonesian, Dutch, Swedish and German. By the way, your English grammar is not exactly perfect either, yet I will never use these shady tactics and bias. Again, it is sad that some people has to attribute to such a shady tactics.

Returning to the topic:

Why do some of you need to shove NINTENDOism upon everyone? The market will determine console and handheld winner. It will not be Nintendo. Nintendo has barely change there business practice since the NES. It will ensure they will not dominate next console war and hurt harshly by the handheld market.

I do notice a pattern use by Nintendo fanboys especially in last few years. I called it LIST EFFECT. The List Effect is to list a set of Game Nintendo game titles then think it to convert the entire world to switch to Nintendo. They have this delusion of Grandeur of everyone will abandon the competition for Nintendo. They assume all gamers think alike and focus on only on predominatly Nintendo flagship characters and game score. .

Yeah, and on the internet, I can claim I'm a rocket scientist, do brain surgery on weekends, and have to beat off the swedish bikini team with a stick from my front doorstep.

[Gadfly2317]

I do notice a pattern use by Nintendo fanboys especially in last few years. I called it LIST EFFECT. The List Effect is to list a set of Game Nintendo game titles then think it to convert the entire world to switch to Nintendo. They have this delusion of Grandeur of everyone will abandon the competition for Nintendo. They assume all gamers think alike and focus on only on predominatly Nintendo flagship characters and game score. .

OK. . . Gamer Today. . . maybe you know some Nintend fans I don't. . . some REALLY irritation ones.

Is it possible for you to see it doesn't have to be one extreme or the other. On one extreme we have you who see Nintendo is ALL BAD. ON the other hand you are talking about people with DELUSIONS OF GRANDEUR who think Nintendo is ALL GOOD.

You're talking to the wrong people. NO ONE here at this message board things nintendo is without flaws. Many gamecube fans also game on PS2 and Xbox. All any of us who are really enjoying the GC is give credit where its due.

--NIntendo has made some major business mistakes. WE all know this.
--NIntendo will never again control this business--Sony, Microsoft, or maybe an EA console ultimatley will.
--BUT GIVE CREDIT WHERE ITS DUE. Nintendo makes solid, reliable hardware; highly innovative original hardware in the case of the DS, and they do make many games that are well received both by REAL gamers and by professional game critics.

That's all. Why deprive yourself of great games? Why such a specific and strong hate for Nintendo in particular?

Don't you see that you are biased, and that your bias keeps you from seeing clearly? I am sure you would be telling a different story if it was Sony who had introduced a dual processor, dual screen touch interface system with wi-fi, voice recognition, and B/c (well, I guess sony couldn't go backwards compatibility since its it's first handheld, but. . . )

ADMIT IT. If Sony had introduced the DS and Nintendo had come out with a better graphics version of the gamboy with the same old setup (1 screeen, control with buttons) you'd be laughing at Nintendo for being in a rut, and praising Sony for taking the lead in creativity and innovation.

The DS, whether you can get around your blind Nintendo hatred and blatant Sony fanboyism, is one of the most original gaming devices in years, it is incredibily fun, and lesser graphics or not, I can't wait to use the touch interface for RPG's and Tactics games because they will be massively improved. . . not like the slow old thumb stick where you have to slowly scroll through tons of menus rather than the lightening fast action of the stylus (and with TWO screens you can be navigating and making all these selections in REAL TIME while game action continues on the top screen.)

Now if you don't see the potential in that, you are either NOT someone who loves gaming, or you are a blind Sony fanboy.

[theWacoKid]

WACO!!!! You're almost there. That is what I ALWAYS do right before the imminent purchase of a new system. I always get the games first. . . then its just a week or two before cracking and getting the system.

I'm telling you. . get the DS, even if all you have so far are GBA games. They look THAT much better--seriously. Does anywhere rent DS games? I know you are not wanting to spend $30 on new DS games, especially since the really great ones are still on the way.

Of the ones I own, if I could only recommend one, I just don't know what it would be. I LOVE Polarium which just came out, I think I like the core game style just a little bit better than Lumines, BUT, lumines presentation, atmosphere, music, everything so excels, and that's part of what you do with these puzzle games anyway. . the point is to get into that hypno-trance state. Polariums music will not do that. Admittedly, it's not THAT big a deal, I just turn off the music, push up the volume on the sound-effects, and play what I want on the stero.

But its overpriced. Should have been $19 (and not because of the black and white--which is actually pretty striking looking.) They are ALL little games except Mario 64, and I'm guessing the control screen really will bug you (you've said it often enough it will have to be true. . . I didn't find the control much of an issue, it was a fair trade for such a vast game, nice alterations to play with 4 characters, 30 minigames (great minigames too I might add.)

But those GBA games (Advance Wars and FFTactics!!!!!) will keep you plenty busy until some meatier DS content arrives (I'm very curious how FFIII is going to turn out.

Well, I have no ending for this disparate rambling, so. . . . . .The End.

I was going to split my purchases, two gba and two DS titles, but at the last moment, swapped warioware for warioware twisted and super mario world for super mario DS. I figured, go with the better titles, not to mention cheaper and damn the innovation. The gba does 2d side scrolling well and I don't know if I could deal without analog on super mario DS. That's the whole frickin point of the game, to introduce analog control to the masses. That was the big innovation.

As for the DS, if I bought it, I'd have another decision, buy now and get a silver DS with Rayman, EB promotion or wait till june for the electric blue edition. I seriously doubt we're going to see any kind of price drop at E3 from either sony or nintendo on their handheld lines. I don't care much for the whole silver look, I feel I should be hunting werewolves with the thing and using the DS as a tracking device.

[Gamer From '78]

I was suprised you'd bother debating with a grammar school dropoutl. If he had a point in the drivel he posted, he hid it extremely well. I figured you used his posts as a tangent to launch into pro DS mode. On a side note, I bought some gba games today, don't ask me why, I don't have a gba or ds as of yet. But, EB had a buy 3 get one free used game promotion. I bought Super Mario World, WarioWare, Final Fantasy Tactics, and Advance Wars 2. All the manuals were in excellent condition and although I spent $97.50 canadian, I wound up saving $90 canadian over buying them new.

I think I'm trying to talk myself into buying either a gba or ds.

I haven't been to system wars in probably 30 days and when I do come in, I am treated to you trying to talk sanity to a mongoloid. This may sound odd coming from me, but you might want to consider throwing the towel in on this one Gadfly. He's beyond help, reasoning, understanding or much of anything else that seperates human beings from the animals.

But I did gleam one thing from this thread: Just as is the case in the animal kingdom at large, the dumber, weaker and retarded of our own kind should be left to die so they don't further pollute the gene pool. :o

[Gadfly2317]

I haven't been to system wars in probably 30 days and when I do come in, I am treated to you trying to talk sanity to a mongoloid. This may sound odd coming from me, but you might want to consider throwing the towel in on this one Gadfly. He's beyond help, reasoning, understanding or much of anything else that seperates human beings from the animals.

But I did gleam one thing from this thread: Just as is the case in the animal kingdom at large, the dumber, weaker and retarded of our own kind should be left to die so they don't further pollute the gene pool. :o

Ah yes. . . much sauce and various condiments; when the missus away, the Gadfly will play.

I was just curious if there was an act to be cracked, or if the guy was really that dumb. Either way he still kicks Moody's ass, and English is Moody's native language.