The Next Generation in Gaming!

[Jupiter_x]

What can we as the consumer expect to see out of these next gen Systems? Aside from our countless assumptions on visuals, capacity and sound quality. What is it that is going to "WOW" us?
Remember owning the original NES and then seeing the slick new Genesis and Super NES in the stores with arcade style graphics, stereo sound/3D sound, Mode 7 etc? I do, I was floored, and I saved every penny to get these new systems so I could play 'em night and day, show off to my friends. When the PS1 came out the standard again was set to a new level, thus offering 3d/polygonal visuals as eye candy. This was exciting because it reminded most of us a little of "Virtual Reality" This was a whole new world of gaming, even the 2d games looked eerily 3D somehow!
N64 came out and set the standard with analogue controls and rumble capabilities, although N64 did not deliver that adrenaline rush I was used to in seeing a new console.

The release of PS2, DC, GC and Xbox as good as they seemed it was almost expected they look this good and in some cases were a little disappointing!
There seems to be a steady decline in that tried and true frantic excitement we used to get in the next generation system releases. Does the media expose too much info and pics of what to expect from their offerings? The best way to describe it would be like: Being a kid and getting so excited at the beginning of December anticipating Christmas Day that when the day finally came, the kid was no longer all that thrilled anymore!
Is it the Internet, TV shows etc. that seems are revealing far too much to us eager gamers and spoiling the surprise that awaits us? True we can avoid watching the shows and stay off gaming sites, but it is far to tempting to not do so, it's like knowing you have a bag of chips and you just can't seem to stop reaching for that bag and finishing it off.
Or is the fact that there is a certain limit the industry has come to and all they have left to do is give us better visuals, cleaner textures and smoother frame rates followed by really crisp sound!

I just hope to see something beyond what I expect in the next generation...something new and fresh, something that really stands out!


The bottom line, is the excitement still there? Or has it faded into what we expect to see?
To what end!

[Horngreen]

The Xbox re-ignited my love of gaming like no other system since I got my first Atari. That said I do see what you mean. I hate to tell you that it may just be that you are getting older more jaded and have other things to occupy your free thought...Bills, kids, job and so on. Maybe you no longer have the time to allow yourself to get "excited" anymore. Get a fat bag of pot and see if that helps. I loved playing online on my PC back in 1999 but got tired of DLing patches and updates for both the game and the video card so the Xbox was my only choice and luckily I only really like driving and FPSs which the box is all stunk up with. I don't think graphics alone will really grab me anymore although I still get wowed pretty easy. I think it will have to start getting more innovative in the next gen. Who knows maybe Nintendos unusual controller will fire things up again or the PS3 cells abilities or new additions to Xbox LIVE. I guess we will have to see and I'm ready.

[Jupiter_x]

The Xbox re-ignited my love of gaming like no other system since I got my first Atari. That said I do see what you mean. I hate to tell you that it may just be that you are getting older more jaded and have other things to occupy your free thought...Bills, kids, job and so on. Maybe you no longer have the time to allow yourself to get "excited" anymore. Get a fat bag of pot and see if that helps. I loved playing online on my PC back in 1999 but got tired of DLing patches and updates for both the game and the video card so the Xbox was my only choice and luckily I only really like driving and FPSs which the box is all stunk up with. I don't think graphics alone will really grab me anymore although I still get wowed pretty easy. I think it will have to start getting more innovative in the next gen. Who knows maybe Nintendos unusual controller will fire things up again or the PS3 cells abilities or new additions to Xbox LIVE. I guess we will have to see and I'm ready.


The way I look at it, and yeah...I gotta agree with ya, I think age plays a part in it. I miss that old feeling though. I cannot deny Halo 2 had me stoked and I wasn't an Xbox owner upon its release. Parents must've got wind of this somehow and bought me a Box for Christmas, thus I grabbed a copy of NG and H2. I will say this E3 has me tweaked, I am going to need the weed to keep myself up all night and stay glued to the pages of IGN and Gamespot for those crucial daze!

I have faith in the upcoming gen.

[Gadfly2317]

The way I look at it, and yeah...I gotta agree with ya, I think age plays a part in it. I miss that old feeling though. I cannot deny Halo 2 had me stoked and I wasn't an Xbox owner upon its release. Parents must've got wind of this somehow and bought me a Box for Christmas, thus I grabbed a copy of NG and H2. I will say this E3 has me tweaked, I am going to need the weed to keep myself up all night and stay glued to the pages of IGN and Gamespot for those crucial daze!

I have faith in the upcoming gen.

I think you and horngreen nailed a couple things: 1.) older and jaded, 2.) Too much information.

Also, too many choices. A Buddhist concept I've found to be very true is that often more choices reduce happiness or pleasure. I think I enjoyed the SNES more in part because its the only system I had and I couldn't afford a new game that often, so when I did I played the hell out of it, unlocked all the unlockables, explored and found all the hidden stuff.

This gen I've had GBA, DS, PsP, GC, Xbox, and Ps2. I've enjoyed this generation, but the DS was the only one that REALLY made me excited about a new system in the way you were talking about, because it offered the potential of something really new, and not just better visuals.

I'm not excited about next gen. The first thing that got me excited at all about this gen was the enveiling of Pikmin and Animal Crossing, and Eternal Darkness. Those were the games that switched me from picking up the Xbox first to picking up a gamecube.

It will take some seriously cool game announcements to get me going, and so far I haven't seen it. The thing about those three games I listed. . . 2 were extremely new concepts, and one looked to be a real jump forward in horror gaming (it wasn't, really, but it was still one of the coolest horror games I've ever played.)

Horngreen's suggestion to get a big bag of pot won't help get you excited about next gen as you surf the net for details. . . what it'll probably do is get you onto some flashgame or downloading an NES emulator or playing MS Hearts; you'll be gaming away on these thinking "whoa, man, what do I need to PAY for games for? Screw The Man!"

[shogun]

I'm very much in the "don't care" pile when it comes to NextGen consoles. This push toward releasing consoles earlier isn't making MS any prettier in my eyes, so at the very least I'm holding onto my XBox for another year or two.

Better graphics will likely impress me, but at this stage in the game a system is going to need quite a few must-have titles under its belt before I bite. There are far, far too many great unplayed games this generation for me to ditch my consoles in favor of a new one.

In all honestly, what I'm anticipating far more about the new generation of consoles is the ability to pick up XBox PS2 and GC "classics", for dirt cheap.

P.S. pot + Lumines

[slade]

The next gen can wait for a couple of years IMO. MS's push to release the X-box 2 this holiday season is pretty much guaranteeing that they won't see my money until at least 2009. By then, I should know whether they've got the fortitude to stick it out or if they're gonna just move on again. This move of theirs is very reminiscent of Sega's glory days where they cut and ran at the sign of competition. Say what you will about Nintendo but they stuck in there till the bitter end.

[trebor]

TBH I'm FAR more excited for upcoming games for the current systems then new systems that are on the horizon. I'm about as excited for Fire Emblem on GC then I am for any big movie coming out this year (which I AM very excited about) or any good books coming out.

Of course, I'm definitely in the "older and jaded" category these days, so the "bigger processors, better graphics, more more more" concept of gaming is leaving me pretty "blah" feeling. Better graphics on the "same old, same old" games is what I predict for the Next-Gen.

I like the idea that Nintendo is trying to do something truly different with their next console, but I totally dislike the idea of simpler games aimed to draw in non-gamers. PS3 and Xbox2 will end up being totally interchangeable, much like PS2 and Xbox are essentially interchangeable, minus a small selection of exclusives on each.

The only segment of the videogame industry that has me excited is the handheld market - which has really been shaken up in the last 6 months. The PSP and the DS are both exciting machines, despite which suits your fancy.

[mandark]

TBH I'm FAR more excited for upcoming games for the current systems then new systems that are on the horizon. I'm about as excited for Fire Emblem on GC then I am for any big movie coming out this year (which I AM very excited about) or any good books coming out.

Of course, I'm definitely in the "older and jaded" category these days, so the "bigger processors, better graphics, more more more" concept of gaming is leaving me pretty "blah" feeling. Better graphics on the "same old, same old" games is what I predict for the Next-Gen.

I like the idea that Nintendo is trying to do something truly different with their next console, but I totally dislike the idea of simpler games aimed to draw in non-gamers. PS3 and Xbox2 will end up being totally interchangeable, much like PS2 and Xbox are essentially interchangeable, minus a small selection of exclusives on each.

The only segment of the videogame industry that has me excited is the handheld market - which has really been shaken up in the last 6 months. The PSP and the DS are both exciting machines, despite which suits your fancy.
And don't forget Advance Wars for the GC. The formula may have changed but I'm hoping it succeeds the way Metroid Prime did. Waiting is too hard to do.

[thelastword]

Interesting thread that! some great thoughts expressed so far.

I think microsoft's rush is simply unwarranted, 3.5 yrs is no way sufficient for a console's lifespan, It's true that the current xbox may be supported until 2007, but what kind of support can anyone envision for it after XBOX 2 lauches, clearly the focus will be on XBOX 2.

Now to the topic at hand; To jupiter and the rest of you guys, I believe it's true that the wow factor is lessened due to all the media we peruse through, before a game's release, as we would already know where we would encounter which boss on which level etc... but I guess nothing stays the same so it's only natural that the industry would evolve towards this as the gaming industry have grown tremendously, surpassing now even the movie industry.

I still believe it's all about the games though, It's true that not all games will be extra-ordinary, but to me the wow factor for me comes when a game delivers an experience I have never had before. To me ICO was that game, it made me say !wow! this is a great achievement in gaming. You see it was'nt another fps or another racer, It launched more or less unawares and got great critical acclaim across the board, there was no hype or commercials, it came silently and delivered.

[trebor]

And don't forget Advance Wars for the GC. The formula may have changed but I'm hoping it succeeds the way Metroid Prime did. Waiting is too hard to do.

I'm a bit skeptical about AW for GC. Initial reactions that I recall from last year's E3 were negative - most were concerned about the gameplay mechanics being too overly action oriented, as opposed to strategy oriented.

Whereas Fire Emblem looks like a true console upgrade to the turn-based, strategy that we know and love. Plus it looks fricken amazing.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

I think there is only one way for the nextgen to go, and that way is online. Heck even Nintendo says they were wrong about this, and will have an online service, subscription based I think.

What I would like to see, online, are MMORPG bigger and better and easier to use than the ones on the PC. I also want to see sports games that do even more to mimic real life sports events. For example basketball games, where each person online plays a position in a game. So instead of two people playing, you have 10 people playing one game, a PG, PF, SF, C, and SG. Same thing with football. I've only bought those kinds of sports games the first year of the XBOX, and until I see changes like this I won't buy the sports games anymore. I'd like to see online boxing leagues, etc.

Racing really needs to be improved. Obviously you need to push past the 8, 12, 16 car limit we've seen so far. I would say 16-30 cars online would be awesome. With leagues and pitting and championships etc.

I would also like to see some great Flight Simulators online. That is one thing I miss about my PC. My favorite games were the Apache Longbows, Falcons and other flight sims. We have great boots on the ground combat games. But now we need something like Apache a real online helicopter sim.

These next consoles are going to be around for the convergence of HD and broadband access. These technologies will be ubiquitous, and hopefully these consoles will be able to handle the increased scale. I don't care whether its twenty people online playing Mario Kart, F-Zero or Forza2, as long as these consoles can do it.

Controls and input will have to be better next time around also. Obviously you are going to need great controllers, but you are going to need a variety of controllers from guns to racing wheels, to mech controllers a la Steel Battalion. I understand the XBOX2 is going to be going with USB interfaces, and allow you to use PC peripherals. I hope this is true.

A lot of guys feel its too soon to start the nextgen. I truly believe XBOX can go another year, but if I had a PS2, that thing shoulda been dead a few years ago. But, I know its selling well and the mainstream herd is happy with it. But this generation needs to end, the console makers, aside from XBOX, didn't think to well about the digital broadband age, and these consoles are technological dinosaurs. XBOX is kind of in the middle, but i'm ready for the next one. All that said, I know i'm an early adopter type and most people probably have a better tolerance than I for outdated technology.

[slade]

TMG, much of what you're saying now about online is what you said back in 2002. It didn't turn out to be true then and it isn't gonna fly now. Most of what is going to come out for the next gen consoles at or around launch time won't be all that different from what we're getting now. Graphics are probably going to be the only big improvement. I don't see the online adoption rate jumping up overnight either and if MS doesn't provide backwards compatibility then the incentive to jump from one version of Live to the other, isn't there at launch.

[Kult]

Say what you will about Nintendo but they stuck in there till the bitter end.


I couldn't possibly agree with you more.

Nintendpwns

Cheers!

[shogun]

I am still not sold on online. So far the greatest "gift" online has given us XBox owners is subpar and abridged single player modes for the sake of the 10-15% of the people who play online. MS has lost a couple hundred bucks worth of games from me as I would have bought Mechassault2, Halo2, Crimson Skies and a couple others had they more robust campaigns.

[Jupiter_x]

Of course, I'm definitely in the "older and jaded" category these days, so the "bigger processors, better graphics, more more more" concept of gaming is leaving me pretty "blah" feeling. Better graphics on the "same old, same old" games is what I predict for the Next-Gen.
I am not totally blaming it on age,Jade or anythin, I still get wicked excited with hot new titles and whatnot, I just recently bought a DS....still waiting to recieve it mind you! The anticipation is killing me, I am very happy about getting it.
I cannot deny that am very interested in seeing what the new visuals will be like on this next gen. I just don't have that frantic "I must have that" feeling? When Xbox came out, I was left totally undecided, this was a slick new console, yet I felt like I had seen it already on the PC. PS2 had really nothing to offer as did GameCube for release titles. Although I had faith that the GC would prosper with the games I wanted and it did and now the Revolution sounds like an escape of the same old-same old.

I like the idea that Nintendo is trying to do something truly different with their next console, but I totally dislike the idea of simpler games aimed to draw in non-gamers. PS3 and Xbox2 will end up being totally interchangeable, much like PS2 and Xbox are essentially interchangeable, minus a small selection of exclusives on each.


More and more I have good feelings toward Revolution, this thing about appealing to non-gamers and simple games has me concerned. Yet I don't think that will speak for all Rev titles, I think in terms of: what would an ineractive Zelda be like, playing those mini games, charting your map using the stylus and touchpad (if it has one?) creating art and clothing to cusomize your clothing, shield design. The possibilties are endless!
In most cases I will have the Revolution and also a PS3 just to switch it up a little, I still like those hardcore games too!

[trebor]

I am not totally blaming it on age,Jade or anythin, I still get wicked excited with hot new titles and whatnot, I just recently bought a DS....still waiting to recieve it mind you! The anticipation is killing me, I am very happy about getting it.
I cannot deny that am very interested in seeing what the new visuals will be like on this next gen. I just don't have that frantic "I must have that" feeling? When Xbox came out, I was left totally undecided, this was a slick new console, yet I felt like I had seen it already on the PC. PS2 had really nothing to offer as did GameCube for release titles. Although I had faith that the GC would prosper with the games I wanted and it did and now the Revolution sounds like an escape of the same old-same old.


I'm 99% certain that the next videogame machine I'll buy will either be a DS or PSP - I'm just waiting for E3 to see if either have any major surprises in store and for their game libraries to grow. Maybe a pricedrop before the PSP, but the DS is at a comfortable price for me.


More and more I have good feelings toward Revolution, this thing about appealing to non-gamers and simple games has me concerned. Yet I don't think that will speak for all Rev titles, I think in terms of: what would an ineractive Zelda be like, playing those mini games, charting your map using the stylus and touchpad (if it has one?) creating art and clothing to cusomize your clothing, shield design. The possibilties are endless!
In most cases I will have the Revolution and also a PS3 just to switch it up a little, I still like those hardcore games too!

I think if I had a PSP I'd be satisfied on the Sony side of things. I'm looking to buy a new PC this year, so that will satisfy my Xbox needs ;)

Nintendo though...that's a tough one. I really want the Revolution to be wicked cool and a must buy kind of product, but if it's too out there and gets no support...well...

DS - it's all about the games. I might buy one just to have the best GBA game player available, and wait to see what Nintendo does for the impending GBA-Next, or whatever it will be called. Because if Sony can make a handheld with great graphics and features, I'm positive Nintendo could make a better one.

[Jupiter_x]

Also, too many choices. A Buddhist concept I've found to be very true is that often more choices reduce happiness or pleasure. I think I enjoyed the SNES more in part because its the only system I had and I couldn't afford a new game that often, so when I did I played the hell out of it, unlocked all the unlockables, explored and found all the hidden stuff.

Choices can indeed be overwelming, Not to complain really but sometimes I will sit in my "game" room and it will at times take me 5-10 min. to decide if I want to play Suikoden, Halo 2, Metal Gear, Paper Mario or even sit beside the wife like tech geek and play my GBA while she watches CSI or King of Queens!


This gen I've had GBA, DS, PsP, GC, Xbox, and Ps2. I've enjoyed this generation, but the DS was the only one that REALLY made me excited about a new system in the way you were talking about, because it offered the potential of something really new, and not just better visuals. I am so looking forward to playing my DS, I am still waiting for it. I too have enjoyed this gen as well but I still feel the best years of gaming were the Snes days, It was freaky, I needed only one system, it would take up and satisfy all my gaming needs, I did not feel I was missing all that much by selling off my Genesis or Turbo Grafx.
Snes was the greatest system ever created!


I'm not excited about next gen. The first thing that got me excited at all about this gen was the enveiling of Pikmin and Animal Crossing, and Eternal Darkness. Those were the games that switched me from picking up the Xbox first to picking up a gamecube.

I am exited, just not flipping out! I don't look at the new game pics with eyes as wide as saucers, jaw hitting the floor! I remember back in 1990 and owning Genesis, I grabbed the latest copy of EGM and it had a huge Super Nintendo section in it with about 15 pics of 7 games, Final Fight was among these pics and I was blown away, so were my friends...I needed the fastest way to get my hands on this system. 6 monthes laterI turfed my Genesis and grabbed the SNES and was to happy for words. Those were the days!

[Jupiter_x]

I'm looking to buy a new PC this year, so that will satisfy my Xbox needs ;)
yeah, yeah, I hear ya.... :p

Nintendo though...that's a tough one. I really want the Revolution to be wicked cool and a must buy kind of product, but if it's too out there and gets no support...well...[/quote]
What I stated about Rev could be way off the chart, this thing could come out and be totally retarded. Thus I will not even consider getting one. I need to just sit back and wait.


DS - it's all about the games. I might buy one just to have the best GBA game player available, and wait to see what Nintendo does for the impending GBA-Next, or whatever it will be called. Because if Sony can make a handheld with great graphics and features, I'm positive Nintendo could make a better one.
The DS is cool in its own way, GBA 2 should be more PSP like in terms of visuals, heck maybe GBA 2 will utilize GC disks and be compatible with GC? eh?

[Jupiter_x]

I am still not sold on online. So far the greatest "gift" online has given us XBox owners is subpar and abridged single player modes for the sake of the 10-15% of the people who play online. MS has lost a couple hundred bucks worth of games from me as I would have bought Mechassault2, Halo2, Crimson Skies and a couple others had they more robust campaigns.


Online is not the anwer, at least not the answer that I am looking for.I rarely play online.
If all my friends I know had the same console and didn't have to pay for it, if it were easier to use than sure I would love to play online and even have a blast.

[Gadfly2317]

TBH I'm FAR more excited for upcoming games for the current systems then new systems that are on the horizon. I'm about as excited for Fire Emblem on GC then I am for any big movie coming out this year (which I AM very excited about) or any good books coming out.

I would be too. . . it's about time a good turned-based strategy RPG came out on GC. My only problem is I have 2 Nippon Icci tactics games for the Ps2 I haven't played yet, and these games can take AGES to complete. I'm kinda sad I won't get the GC Fire Emblem for quite awhile.



I like the idea that Nintendo is trying to do something truly different with their next console, but I totally dislike the idea of simpler games aimed to draw in non-gamers. PS3 and Xbox2 will end up being totally interchangeable, much like PS2 and Xbox are essentially interchangeable, minus a small selection of exclusives on each.
Well, I remember one time right after they were talking about this whole "simpler to appeal to non-gamers thing" the next month they released freaking blistering hard F-Zero in collaboration with Sega. Some of the most challenging games this gen were on GC, yet the very best non-gamer game was also there, Animal Crossing, which has still not stopped blowing my mind. I put it in last night after responding to the AC thread in the GC forum, just to check my town out (there were characters I hadn't seen in 21 months (or so they scolded me) and I got sucked right into doing nothing for 2 hours. I don't understand how it does that to people.

Lots of interesting stuff; Masked Gamer said "ubiquitous". . one of my favorite words.

Just wanted to say this has been one of the most interesting and substantive threads in awhile. Even though I'm not enthuased about getting a next gen-machine yet (I agree with the sentiment that there are too many dirt cheap AAA games I haven't gotten to yet this gen that will hold me awhile longer) I will thank MS for firing up one of my other hobbies; talking about gaming with the fine group of gamers that loiter around VGR waiting for something to happen.

[Glockstar]

I am still not sold on online. So far the greatest "gift" online has given us XBox owners is subpar and abridged single player modes for the sake of the 10-15% of the people who play online. MS has lost a couple hundred bucks worth of games from me as I would have bought Mechassault2, Halo2, Crimson Skies and a couple others had they more robust campaigns.

I hear you. And to be honest, I'm with you.
You know I'm a staunch supporter of XBL, but you don't ever see me talking about Phantasy Star Online or Phantom Dust do you?

You mentioned H2, MA2, and CS... which I think is "funny", because I thought the single-player campaigns in those games were every bit as good as the online ones. And actually, in the case of Crimson Skies, I thought the sp was better.

This whole "the single-player campaigns on XBox games suck because they focus too much on XBox Live play" thing is BS. And unwarranted. There's only four games in all of the XBox Live library that that could really be said of: MechAssault, Unreal Championship, Counter-Strike, and Soldier of Fortune II. Ooooooh! Four games! :rolleyes:

[slade]

There was that racing game called Midtown Madness or something that was criticized for this too. It is a dangerous trend and with MS saying that all X-box 2 games have to have Live shoehorned in there some way, it doesn't inspire confidence.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I am still not sold on online. So far the greatest "gift" online has given us XBox owners is subpar and abridged single player modes for the sake of the 10-15% of the people who play online. MS has lost a couple hundred bucks worth of games from me as I would have bought Mechassault2, Halo2, Crimson Skies and a couple others had they more robust campaigns.

I'm not sold on online, either. It's a great option for gamers who want to play online, but that's all I really see it as, an option. For some reason I have a feeling MS is trying to make it more than just an option.

As far as the greatest "gift", I would actually take Halo 2 out of that lineup. It was actually a game that had almost every option for a gamer. A good single player (I thought the length was just right), multi-player offline, multi-player online, and co-op mode, though not having an online co-op for some is the reason why I said the game had almost every option. Halo 2 is probably the only game I have played where the devs have tried to offer enough options for everyone, though Forza looks to be the next one to offer just as much options.

Overall, it will take some interesting games to get me to WOW for the next gen, but it will not be a big WOW, not anymore.

[Gadfly2317]

I'm not sold on online, either. It's a great option for gamers who want to play online, but that's all I really see it as, an option. For some reason I have a feeling MS is trying to make it more than just an option.

As far as the greatest "gift", I would actually take Halo 2 out of that lineup. It was actually a game that had almost every option for a gamer. A good single player (I thought the length was just right), multi-player offline, multi-player online, and co-op mode, though not having an online co-op for some is the reason why I said the game had almost every option. Halo 2 is probably the only game I have played where the devs have tried to offer enough options for everyone, though Forza looks to be the next one to offer just as much options.

Overall, it will take some interesting games to get me to WOW for the next gen, but it will not be a big WOW, not anymore.

The biggest thing about why I never bothered hooking up my xbox to live (though I've messed with it a little with friends) was the type of games. Racing online is cool, and so are FPS (and I also tried out Crimson Skies on Live) but my favorite types of games are just not online. There needs to be a more diverse online experience to really make it worth my bother.

One thing I'm concerned about though, is if my favorite games were online, would there really be enough gamers out there? There are so many games, so many systems, that are you going to have enough gamers still playing something more than a couple months after its release? Take Culdcept on Ps2. I'd like to play that online, but its such a cult game, and also its a LONG game, so it seems like it'd be easy to hook up and then the other player just quit mid-game.

Online is one of the reasons I'm keeping an eye on the Revolution, though. I like Nintendo's franchises, but the only thing that could extend some of them for one more go would be online. Mario Kart (yeah, I know its racing) would be very cool online, as well as Pikmin 2's multiplayer modes--totally different than other games online. Animal Crossing online of course (I know they're doing that with DS, but if they turned it into a truly vast online console game complete with more character customization (like you could be any of the 200+ characters in the game, or create your own) and also have a visual touch screen centered in a wireless controller for typing and drawing--that alone would make me get the revolution and take it online.

And speaking of that, I think that would be the Revolution in control--not a touch screen only, that would suck--but the controller would be a bit wider and still have buttons and analog sticks, but a visual touch screen built into the controller would RULE--it would be the best of both worlds and build on the concepts they played with using GBA connectivity, and with the concepts being explored on the DS. Any imagination at all and you can see how converging these ideas in the next console would yields some extremely cool possibilities for game designers.

THAT's what would excite me about next-gen is true outside the box orginality, not just more processing power for a little bit better 3-d graphics and cripser textures.

[Glockstar]

There was that racing game called Midtown Madness or something that was criticized for this too. It is a dangerous trend and with MS saying that all X-box 2 games have to have Live shoehorned in there some way, it doesn't inspire confidence.

Eh, MM3's single-player was actually pretty decent. You embarked on specific check-point driven race-against-the-clock missions - kind of like a Crazy Taxi - that focused on a particular car... whereupon completion of said mission would open up new cars and new missions... which you could take into a make-what-you-will-of-it free-roam game mode where you could hunt for new paint jobs and whatnot. Then you take the cars and paintjobs that you've "unlocked" online. It was actually a decent concept.

But, ultimately, I personally didn't like it, because I found it to be too difficult. The time limits were too strict, and I found that I had to drive with absolute precision and perfection in order to beat the time. But that's just a measure of difficulty we're talking about here, not outright gamedesign. If MM3 sucks because of that then so does DMC3 and Maximo and Ikaruga and so on, you know what I'm saying?

And of course there was another criticism leveled against the game, and that was with regards to its voice-acting. Which was terrible. But that's more of a sound issue than a gameplay one. And as bad as it was it was still a lot better than the toilet-like sound effects coming from out of Link in the Wind Waker - and it was infinitely better than having to read text... and wait for an icon to appear to let you know when to press a button so that you could read more text... and then wait again and press a button again...

-

RBH has got it right, it's an option. It's something you either like or you don't; you take it or you leave it. So that crap about games being half-assed when they feature online-play is just that, crap. It's mud. And it's dumb. I mean, you don't hear the ones who prefer online play raising a stink and throwing dirt on your kinds of games - like DMC or God of War - do you? Even though those games are even more one-dimensional and more of a rip-off than the Unreals and the Counter-Strikes. I mean, you paid $50 and it took you only 12 hours to beat your sp-only game... now what? But I'm not saying anything. I don't like it - that's my personal preference - so I just won't buy it.

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Now, this fear I hear about online gaming "taking over" (so to speak) I actually, kind of, understand. Because, if that were to happen, and if that weren't your thing, then I would have to imagine that you'd exercise your option to not buy that system or support that kind of gaming. I can empathize with that.

But... I really don't understand where that fear comes from. Explain it to me.

I mean, you said it yourself, Hunter, Halo 2 - the veritable poster-child for Xbox Live - is still a stacked game for non-subscribers. Those games that I mentioned earlier: Crimson Skies and MechAssault 2 - first-party XBL-of-course-enabled games - where, also, the sp part is just as good - if not better - than the online part. Splinter Cell Chaos Theory - the game I'm calling GOTY for 2005 - which I haven't even taken online yet! Same with Doom 3. And Kingdom Under Fire; IndyCar Series 2005; Mortal Kombat Deception; Colin McRae Rally '05, and ESPN NFL 2K5 - all awesome games, imo, none of which have I taken online yet. And don't forget Full Spectrum Warrior, Brothers In Arms, Midnight Club 3, or Dead Or Alive Ultimate - all of which have come out within the last 12 months - a time when you naysayers said things were supposed to get bad for single-player games, but instead all have stellar sp modes first and foremost.

So, again, where are you getting these ideas from?

[slade]

Midtown Madness was not the focus of what I said, this was:

It is a dangerous trend and with MS saying that all X-box 2 games have to have Live shoehorned in there some way, it doesn't inspire confidence.

Also:

It's mud. And it's dumb. I mean, you don't hear the ones who prefer online play raising a stink and throwing dirt on your kinds of games - like DMC or God of War - do you?

I thought that was the sole reason for Daman's existence, what with all his attacks against PS2 games not being as good as X-box games. And anyway, it depends on how into the game you are. For me, God of War still merits another play through and there is the Challenge of the Gods mode that I have to get through. DMC3 is looking to be a long game for me. Two hours in and I've only just entered the Temin-ni-gru (that's only Mission four btw) And looking at the mission select screen, this game is gonna warrant more then a couple of play through's.

[DrunkenThumbmaster]

Crimson Skies has a sweet single player mode in fact it was orginally single player they delayed the game a year to add online. There was no sacrifice and to this day it's still one of the most played games on Xbox live despite it's supposedly lack of sales (I've never seen a total number).

Online is the future all of you who are clamoring for something orginal and innovative. It's not going to happen next gen we are going to see more of the same game mechanics but playing them online makes them more dynamic.

I would like to see more games that are bascially just online and just single player (it's a good thing to have all games live aware IMO). Some games you just aren't going to play offline like most of the Clancy Shooters I may have played a little offline but those games are mostly bought for online. When I buy a game I primarily buy it for either mulitipalyer or single player there have been a few where both modes were really good. But I see nothing wrong in buying a game that is dedicated to being online. If a company can get away with charging you $50 bucks for a single player experience I don't see the problem paying $50 for multiplayer experience since you are inadvariably going to get more play time out of Multiplayer game than a single player one.

I still can't understand the mindset of a gamer who spend the time to post on messageboards to communicate and interact with other gamers will then not want to actually play with other gamers. It seems kind of backwards to me but oh well.