WoW Impressions

[Hieremias]

Okay Renzatic, tell me what I'm doing wrong here. I got WoW last night for winning Review of the Month (delivery was delayed, blame Futureshop and Purolator). It's just not fun.

Keep in mind these are impressions from a guy who's never, ever played or even seen a MMORPG. But if they're all like this, it's pretty pathetic. Here goes:

After taking 45 minutes--yes, literally 45 minutes--to install the damn thing, I was finally ready to start playing. Fired it up, created an account, watched an oh-so-beautiful intro movie (Blizzard should do a full-length Hollywood film). Then suddenly BAM, back to desktop, have to download a patch! It's 50mb and downloads through some crappy P2P network with a transfer rate of 20kbps. Great! Estimated time, 24 minutes. $%&#!! My cousin suddenly MSNs me asking for a quick game of UT, and since I wasn't going anywhere immediately, I agree. Play a single round of UT2k4 (which ends up being the most fun I had all evening). After that, come back to desktop and found the download at 98%. Good timing.

Once it downloads it takes another 10 minutes to install. Yes, ten full minutes to *install* a 50mb patch that'd already been downloaded. Okay, FINALLY, it's done. Start up the game. In choosing the server, the manual says something like "If you choose a PvP server, realize that you will routinely experience gang rapes at the hands of players far, far, far superior to you." I decide that no, as a total MMORPG newbie, I'll start off with a normal server. They assign me to someplace starting with U (Umbria maybe?). On we go.

Okay character customization. One of my favourite parts of an RPG. I choose a male night-elf druid. Now, to choose what stats to--WTF?! No other choices??! I can't distribute points in strength, intelligence, charm, whatever the hell else this RPG uses?! Oh wait, I get to choose his hair colour. So I have no control over what my character's strengths and weaknesses are, but I get to make him look as gay as I want. Oh good, okay, bright green hair. Fruitloops here I come.

So I start the game. I notice little, if any, loading time. That's a good thing. My first impression of the graphics?? They are ass. I mean this is one of the worst-looking games I have played in recent memory. I will recognize that there are probably some graphical concession that have to be made to have an MMORPG, especially a seamless world. So Half-Life 2 is not what I'm expecting. But the graphics should at least be on par with something like Dungeon Siege, right? It had a huge seamless world. Nope, WoW is terrible. Awful textures, huge big blocky environments, ridiculously cartoony art design. I know the Warcraft games have always been cartoony, but this is over the top. I chose the night elves because I wanted to be a druid, and I wanted to explore a forest. Forests are cool, I like games with forests. Except this one looks like an insane amusement park. After recently playing Morrowind, the visuals in WoW are a kick in the nuts. This game honestly looks like something from 1998.

Allright, graphical wizardry is not what we're about, we want gameplay okay? Okay. I'm standing with about 5 other level-1 newbies around some old guy who's giving quests. I can tell by the giant exclamation mark above his head, which serves two purposes: to inform me that I can get a quest, and to absolutely destroy any sense of immersion I *might* have felt in such a stupid-looking forest. A stupid looking forest FILLED with morons chatting (the bottom left 1/4 of the screen is filled with inane chatter, is there a way to turn that off?) The guy tells me I have to go kill 7 of one monster and 4 of another. Yes, you, the nature-loving Night-Elf druid, sworn protector of nature and wildlife, go kill a whole pile of animals. Right.

So I run around trying to find where I can slaughter innocent animals. Right away I notice the minimap is useless. It's a big green circle. I'm in a forest, everything's green! Yay! Useless. But I round a corner, and instantly realize where I'm supposed to be. And I've never in my life seen a funnier sight in a computer game.

Stretching before me was a giant field (in a forest) filled with little critters, and there had to be at least a dozen newbie night elf warriors, fighters, druids, etc, all engaging in a wholesale slaughter of animals. I mean it was carnage all over the place. This was not selective population culling, this was hunting to the point of extinction. I felt like I should have been a European colonist shooting whole herds of buffalo. All my PETA friends (I don't have any, but imagine I did) were weeping at the sight. The trick for me here wasn't finding enough animals to kill--there were lots--the trick was finding an animal that wasn't already being beaten up by another elf. Oh, there's one!! Go get hi--crap, nevermind, someone already got him. Ooh, there's anoth--crap, nevermind. This is where the game sends newbies. Go to this field, kill animals, and come back. Oh and BE A DRUID!!

I finally managed to kill enough critters to fulfill the quest. Back to the guy I go, I get a reward, and OOH! I level up. This is supposed to be like a crack addict getting his regular hit, yes? Levelling up is the goal of all RPGs? All I did was sparkle for a bit. I didn't even get to distribute any stat points or anything.

I continued like this for about an hour. I managed to get to level 4. I was not having any fun. Most games want to present, at the beginning, something exciting to grab your attention. WoW slaps you in the face with a big dose of tedium. You can't tell me this game isn't a level-grind, because level-grind is all I did when I started. Why do they do this? If the game gets fun later on, why not just cut out the earlier crap and start the player off "later on"??

Now I overheard a conversation that 4/5 players choose the Alliance races, and if you want a less-crowded place go to the Horde. Good suggestion. I was not having any fun as a Night Elf, and the forest was painful to look at. So I logged out and created a new character, a Tauren druid (I wanted to get to the shape-shifting abilities). I started out in the Barrens, in a village made up of Indian teepees. Sorry, Tauren tents. Whatever. Now this environment--even though it's called "The Barrens" and is, well, barren--still looks better than the Night Elf forest. Except for the insanely bright colours and ridiculously cartoony style. So, I start off with practically the same quest. Go kill animals. But this time it's not a circus, there are distinctly fewer players around here and the chat screen is MUCH quieter.

I levelled my Tauren to level 3, doing the same level grind as before. It was a little more pleasant than the Night Elf, but essentially it was the same nonsense. Do people really get addicted to this? How do you play this game for months on end? All I did for 2 hours last night was beat up little animals. And the combat isn't even fun, you just click on the animal then sit and watch as your character takes swings. The combat is like Neverwinter Nights, except that imagine NWN gave you zero character customization options, zero plot, and just repeatedly gave you "Go kill 10 of these monster" quests. How boring would that be?

I don't really consider this a waste of my RotM prize. I now know for certain that the whole concept behind MMORPGs is retarded, so I won't be tempted to get them in the future. And if Guild Wars is just like this minus the monthly fee, you can count me out. I'll try a bit more tonight, maybe--MAYBE--it'll get more interesting as I level up? I get the first month free so I'll at least try to give it an honest run. But unless things improve drastically, I can't see myself dropping $15 US to go through this stupid level grind for another month.

[DBS]

Welcome to MMRPG's as they are mostly about getting together with a group of people that you become buds with (in theory usually) and quest together killing silly things and then some cooler things. You earn some kind of currency to buy better armor or weapons and some quests give you neat looking stuff that usually is only that...neat looking. I had fun but I think it was because when I joined a mmrpg my brother did as well.

I think I have the nutshell of that in CS now but less rambling (usually) and more intense gameplay than most mmrpg's can offer. Only thing troubling is alot of the players I am with are teen's or younger and far superior in this game. Strange to listen to someone that sounds like they have yet to grow one hair on his chin giving orders and when they found my age I am now old fart. Geez...it is a sick world when I realized I am an old gamer and to top it off...still not very good at it :)

[Aku]

Your description of the forest massacre had me rolling off my chair and under my desk!

[Renzatic Gear]

Did you turn up your graphics settings ingame? WoW is an awesome looking game, cartoony though it may be, and can be absolutely stunning in some areas. If you're playing with the draw in distance at it's default and everything else set to normal then yeah, it's gonna suck.

As for the quests and all that other jive, you're in the newbie zones...they're designed to let you get the feel of the game and are gonna be really easy in comparison to the later levels. Think of the first 20 levels as training, once you get past that then the game really starts opening up.

You don't have stats to tweak, but you do have your skill tree which is complicated enough to please a fairly hardcore RPG nut. You get it at 10, and even though some of the options don't seem to appealing at first, once you start getting more and more points you'll realise how good they can be. Plus you have your trainer to go to once you get around 5 or so. He'll teach you new moves and skills.

Stats are item based, like Diablo. Other than the usual couple of points added per level you'll be spending most of your time upping your stats through items.

Customization in general is something you do throughout the game, not at the very beginning. Don't worry about not having options now, everyone starts out exactly the same...but by the end of the game your druid will be totally different than someone elses druid.

Oh yeah, and turn off the general chat channel...most of the people in there, specially in the newbie zones, are morons. :P

Edit: Oh, by the way...the PvP servers are where the real fun is. You miss out on so much tension and excitement by playing on the regular servers. I remember one time when I had to escort some level 15's across the barrens while a raid was going on in Ashenvale. It was fun as hell, they'd spend time hiding in the bushes when a horde guy passed by while I played the guide...plus seeing 50 people on the opposing team grouped together rushing through your territory is awesome.

And you get to kill people.

With everything up it should look like THIS (http://users.chartertn.net/greymatt/wow_snowman.jpg)

Cuz I was around during Christmas I get to turn into a snowman.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

The combat is like Neverwinter Nights, except that imagine NWN gave you zero character customization options, zero plot, and just repeatedly gave you "Go kill 10 of these monster" quests. How boring would that be?

I don't really consider this a waste of my RotM prize. I now know for certain that the whole concept behind MMORPGs is retarded,

LOL And to think you would normally have to pay a sub for that... If it's free, that's one thing...

Just a couple comments. NWN has a very robust character customization process. On that note, so does Guild Wars. Guild Wars has stats and skills that level up (or rather you allocate points)... If it didn't I'd be rather upset myself too!

One thing I really like about the NWN servers? They tend to be smaller-knit communities, with more emphasis placed upon Role-Playing, and less on the virtual chat-room element. I too was taken aback at how Guild Wars initially slapped you in the face with insane character chatter, but I also realise its' greater potential. Exploration... See what's around the next corner... I think Guild Wars will be at least good for that.

I'm pretty sure WoW must have at least some of those same elements...

[Hieremias]

Hmm, okay Renz. I have it on 1024x768 resolution, and high texture detail. I didn't pay much attention to the rest, I just wanted to start playing (I couldn't believe how long it took to install). I'll make sure to boost the view distance. On the positive side, it ran quite smoothly.

If I turn off the general chat, will anyone be able to talk to me? I don't know anyone in the game yet, if someone who isn't lame wants to make friends I don't want to be ignoring him.

So can I move my character to another server (PvP), or do I have to start over? Yay, killing more animals. You said you're on Thunderlord, are you Horde or Alliance?

[Hieremias]

One thing I really like about the NWN servers? They tend to be smaller-knit communities, with more emphasis placed upon Role-Playing, and less on the virtual chat-room element. I too was taken aback at how Guild Wars initially slapped you in the face with insane character chatter, but I also realise its' greater potential. Exploration... See what's around the next corner... I think Guild Wars will be at least good for that.
If my predictions remain true and I ditch WoW within the first free month, I'll check out the NWN persistent worlds. I noticed that on Adventure Island you need both expansion packs, neither of which I own. I don't suppose they sell both for one low price. I've seen the NWN platinum, but it has the original game and I don't need to buy that again. I've also seen each expansion for $20 by themselves, but $40 seems a bit steep to basically play a game I already own (I haven't had a burning desire to play the expansion single-player campaigns, especially not Hordes).

[Renzatic Gear]

I was alliance on Thunderlord, but I stopped playing it because it was taking up too much of my time. You can join all the other TTLG people on there though and have some potential fun.

Trust me, it does get better the higher you get. It starts out rather slow and basic so you can learn the ropes then ramps up from there. You're basically judging the game based around the tutorial.

Course you might not like it in the end, MMO's are quite a bit different than regular RPG's and some people just don't like em (like me for instance, WoW is the only one I've ever enjoyed).

Oh, and General Chat is the innane chatter you hear no matter where you are. If you turn it off you can still hear people talking within earshot.

[Mochan]

Yup, MMORPGS are all about level grinding, and I can't figure out why everyone is so addicted to it. I had heard people swearing WoW was different but Hieremias, you just about convinced me otherwise. Well, in that case I'll just go back to Diablo, where the fun is furious and the grinding actually makes me happy in a primitive sadistic fashion.

But MMORPGs only become enjoyable when you manage to interact with the other players in a meaningful way. For instance, the most fun I ever got out of MMORPGs was playing an ******* and conning people out of money and equipment. I play a damsel in distress who sucks at the games and is totally clueless, and everyone loves giving me presents. Best part of an MMORPG!

[Hieremias]

Your description of the forest massacre had me rolling off my chair and under my desk!
You had to see it. :) I wish I'd taken a video or a screenshot or something. Words don't describe it, it was a picture of absurdity. At least a dozen armour-wearing, sword-wielding Elf warriors running around frantically trying to beat up little bunnyrabbits.

[Aku]

Now that you've learned your lesson, you know what you need to do: pick up Tribunal and Bloodmoon, download White Wolf of Lokken (itty bitty berserkers...can't say more), and have at it.

[Hieremias]

Okay I played it some more last night, I think my first impressions were a bit harsh. The game is better than what I originally made it to be.

I increased the view distance to its maximum, which made a huge difference on the visuals. The textures still aren't great, but the scenery can be amazing at time. It also helps that I'm not a Night Elf, I honestly think Blizzard screwed up royally in designing the Night Elf environment. As a Tauren out on the Barrens, the scenery is quite impressive. I'm not completely sold on the extremely cartoony style of buildings and towns, but oh well.

I started a new Tauren druid on a low-population PvP server, and the difference is significant. For starters, I didn't have to put up with that circus scene of dozens of newbies all beating up little critters. The Barrens are quite big, and they really do give a good sense of being vast and relatively unpopulated. The Taurens are clearly modelled after the North American native tribes. It's like Dances with Wolves, uh, except that you're a big hairy horned hoofed beast.

I also hooked up with a couple other guys for a few of the tougher missions. And it's true, the game is much more enjoyable when playing in groups. I'm a druid so I have healing and protection spells, I hooked up with a shaman and a warrior, and we did pretty well. I have those two guys on my friends list now, and I'm hoping I meet more like that.

Unfortunately most of the quests still involve killing X number of Y type of creature. But they're starting to get more creative, a few have been different. I'm at level 9 now. That might seem like a lot for one night, but the first bunch of levels go really fast. I think the last two took as long as the first seven combined.

Anyway, I haven't yet participated in any PvP raids, those sound kinda cool. One Night Elf sneaked her way into our village, but we beat the crap out of her pretty quick. That's all the PvP I've done. But Renz you were right, the game does get better than what is evident in the first few levels. (I still don't know why Blizzard chooses to hit new players with a slap of tedium.)

[Renzatic Gear]

You're gonna be facing the kill X number of Y quests throughout the game, but you don't have to take em if you don't want to...I usually skipped em for the more interesting quests once I hit 15 or so.

If you wanna join a guild with a bunch of people you know are gonna be competant (if not insane), then go to Thunderlord and join up with all the TTLG guys...they started a new one just the other day and are trying to get everyone that plays on one server. It's a helluva lot more fun when you're playing with a group of people rather than by yourself.

[Hieremias]

You're gonna be facing the kill X number of Y quests throughout the game, but you don't have to take em if you don't want to...I usually skipped em for the more interesting quests once I hit 15 or so.

If you wanna join a guild with a bunch of people you know are gonna be competant (if not insane), then go to Thunderlord and join up with all the TTLG guys...they started a new one just the other day and are trying to get everyone that plays on one server. It's a helluva lot more fun when you're playing with a group of people rather than by yourself.
Well I don't know any of the TTLG guys, and I don't want to start a new character right now. I put about 5 hours into him last night, and I won't have another chance to do that for quite a while (I have too much stuff to do). Plus all you guys are Alliance? I've taken a liking to the Tauren environment, it's nice to look at and I like the "big open western" atmosphere.

If I do start another character at some point on the Alliance side, it'll probably be a Dwarf hunter. Or at least something that can use guns. Being a straightforward tank doesn't interest me, nor does being a physically weak dedicated spellcaster. (That's why I picked a Druid.) By the way, what classes have you tried? Any suggestions? I know you thought the Paladin was overpowered, but that class has never interested me in any RPG.

[Renzatic Gear]

Paladins are by and far the most boring class in the game, you don't do anything with em cept click a button every 5 minutes and let him do his own thing automatically.

My personal favorite is a sword specced rogue, full frontal damage....no backstabs. They're the fastest class in the game by and far, and when you take all the stuns and poisons you get around 30 they're really evil. PvP is especially excellent for them, they can stealth and walk up right behind someone unseen, stun em for 30 seconds, and beat the living hell out of their friends while they watch helplessly.

Hunters are also really good, if you take up engineering as your tradeskill and get a good pet you're practically unstoppable from distances.

Priests start out a little slow and they're only average at soloing, but by the time you get high enough to hit dungeons people will be begging you to come with them.

And keep in mind that even though you're playing as the alliance, you're gonna end up in the barrens sooner or later. Eventually you start getting quests that take you deep into enemy territory, and there are also 2 dungeons on the southern end that both factions go to and a neutral city to the east of The Crossroads.

[I.B. Chance]

OK, a few things.....

First, none of the starting areas are that much "fun". I don't think they're supposed to be. There are no elaborate quests in the beginning because most people would be baffled as to how to even begin to finish them. So newbie areas for dwarf, human, gnome and night elf are basically the same except for the scenery.

A poster previously stated that the game starts opening up for you after level 20. I'd tend to agree with that as level 20 is about the lowest you want to go for the first instance quest--Van Cleef. The instances are pretty linear in that you go from point A to point B but getting to point B can be pretty daunting for some instances. As far as quests go, I haven't seen too many mmorpgs that can match WOW's instance quests.

It's already been stated but I simply don't see the same game you do. The game I see is downright incredible in some of its environments. I think you'll start to change your impression when you begin tromping through Stranglethorn Vale, Ashenvale, Winterspring and a few others.

It's absolutely true that there are no attribute assignments at the beginning. There doesn't need to be. I always thought attribute assignments were dumb anyway but that's just me (obviously they aren't dumb or no games would have them). Attributes can change greatly through your equipment which if you really think about it, that happens anyway even in an attribute assignment game.

Personally, I love the fact that they are pre-assigned. It fits better in a PvP model in which the person in charge of the character totally decides the character's fate. The pre-assigned attribute model also compliments the crafting philosophy because crafting definately can make a huge difference character to character. You won't see this until whatever crafting assignment you take hits the 230 mark or so because that's when the radical change takes place. At the artisan level you're no longer going up in small increments but rather take some huge jumps in quality for the items you craft.

However, some people won't like it because specialized artisan crafting takes a bit of work in that you have to acquire the special recipes and the recipes usually require materials that you just don't walk out and pick up off the ground. *Gasp* Imagine that!

I have to say that the raid encounters (level 55-60) are hellish where time is concerned but the instances are HUGE and the variety is just as equal in depth as to the size of the instance. I brought a character up to 60 in about 4 weeks of somewhat casual playing. I was amazed at how much you are rewarded from questing over camping. There were a few places where I felt like I was in a grind but overall the majority of the time, I didn't feel that way at all.

For me, I didn't really get the whole feeling for the expanse of WOW until I began a character after leveling one to 60. What I found is that I have not worked one single quest that the level 60 accomplished and this alternate is at 14.

The world is just huge and by level 35 or so you start to see that some of these quests are just devious in their implementation.

And when all else fails, there's always the auction house which is a kick because you're actually playing an economic strategy game when you dive in. The only problem with it is that peak hours are a bear because of a good amount of lag from all the transactions.

So far, best $15 I've ever spent for an mmorpg and I've played quite a few of them.

[I.B. Chance]

Paladins are by and far the most boring class in the game, you don't do anything with em cept click a button every 5 minutes and let him do his own thing automatically.

My personal favorite is a sword specced rogue, full frontal damage....no backstabs. They're the fastest class in the game by and far, and when you take all the stuns and poisons you get around 30 they're really evil. PvP is especially excellent for them, they can stealth and walk up right behind someone unseen, stun em for 30 seconds, and beat the living hell out of their friends while they watch helplessly.

Hunters are also really good, if you take up engineering as your tradeskill and get a good pet you're practically unstoppable from distances.

Priests start out a little slow and they're only average at soloing, but by the time you get high enough to hit dungeons people will be begging you to come with them.

And keep in mind that even though you're playing as the alliance, you're gonna end up in the barrens sooner or later. Eventually you start getting quests that take you deep into enemy territory, and there are also 2 dungeons on the southern end that both factions go to and a neutral city to the east of The Crossroads.

I can easily see how one could find rogue their favorite. That's why there are so many of them. I agree, paladin and priest puts me to sleep but dual sword warrior...yeeeyoww! I just can't put him aside even at level 60.

One thing no one has mentioned is talents. The talent trees make a HUGE, and I mean HUGE, amount of difference. I've spec'ed a warrior three different ways and so far, very light defense (protection, 2 pts), heavy arms (31 points) and fury (17 points) is alot of fun.

The whole warrior protest thing going on in the WOW forums is completely bogus. The problem is most people balance their warrior talents out so they get respectable defense but can't figure out why they aren't a killing machine...welll.....duh. Talents toward critical strikes is a tremendous boost to a warrior's kill ability.

Some people actually believe that 1% critical attack boost means 1 out of a 100 swings can be a critical. I about split a gut laughing at that. Critical strikes are a product of armor values, skill values, creature's defense, creature's dodge ability, block ability, parry ability. When you meet up with something you have a critical skill chance built right in. With creature's A's values, you have a 25% chance of getting a critical. If you talent an extra 1% you don't end up with 26%, you end up with 1% on top of the values you're currently at. So 1% is against the creatures dodge, parry, armor etc. not just 1% on top of your ability. When you factor the 1% against the creature's abilities you can easily see that you're going to get more than 26%, more likely in the neighborhood of 30% or a bit higher.

Any way, if anyone hasn't put too much into their characters, I'll be glad to stake you some gold if you need some friends and some help on Argent Dawn.

[Renzatic Gear]

Yeah, when I played my warrior I was doing pretty alright. I couldn't match a rogue in straight up melee damage but I kept the mobs on me about 99% of the time because I put all my stats in offense. Everyone *****ing about how bad they suck and can't solo just couldn't play the game...I never had trouble soloing.

Just to get your appetite going for dungeons, Hieremias...here's a cool screenshot for you to check out.

purty piktur (http://users.chartertn.net/greymatt/wow_dungeon.jpg)

Oh, and I don't recommend going after Van Cleef til you're at least 25..or have a couple of guys that level in your group. He will tear you up otherwise.

[I.B. Chance]

Yeah, when I played my warrior I was doing pretty alright. I couldn't match a rogue in straight up melee damage but I kept the mobs on me about 99% of the time because I put all my stats in offense. Everyone *****ing about how bad they suck and can't solo just couldn't play the game...I never had trouble soloing.

Just to get your appetite going for dungeons, Hieremias...here's a cool screenshot for you to check out.

purty piktur (http://users.chartertn.net/greymatt/wow_dungeon.jpg)

Oh, and I don't recommend going after Van Cleef til you're at least 25..or have a couple of guys that level in your group. He will tear you up otherwise.


Here's mine...

WOW1 (http://www.syndicate-play.net/image/WOW/wow1.jpg)
WOW2 (http://www.syndicate-play.net/image/WOW/wow2.jpg)
WOW3 (http://www.syndicate-play.net/image/WOW/wow3.jpg)
WOW4 (http://www.syndicate-play.net/image/WOW/wow4.jpg)
WOW5 (http://www.syndicate-play.net/image/WOW/wow5.jpg)
WOW6 (http://www.syndicate-play.net/image/WOW/wow6.jpg)

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Here's mine...

Snooze. That doesn't top these.... (and don't forget folks... these ARE free! No subs required).

http://www.guildwars.com/images/JPG/gwscreens/gwscreen057-page.jpg

http://www.guildwars.com/images/JPG/gwscreens/gwscreen036-page.jpg

http://www.guildwars.com/images/JPG/gwscreens/gwscreen022-page.JPG

Guild Wars folks... be there... or be square! LOL I can't believe I just said that!

[Renzatic Gear]

I have to admit that Guild Wars is the prettier game, but it doesn't have the same amount of complexity that WoW has.

I'm not saying that the game isn't fun, it's a kick in the ass and I loved it, but despite the fact that they play similar combatwise Guildwars is more like WoW's l'il brudder.

[Hieremias]

A poster previously stated that the game starts opening up for you after level 20. I'd tend to agree with that as level 20 is about the lowest you want to go for the first instance quest--Van Cleef. The instances are pretty linear in that you go from point A to point B but getting to point B can be pretty daunting for some instances. As far as quests go, I haven't seen too many mmorpgs that can match WOW's instance quests.
It took me hours of play just to get to level 9. How long before I get to level 20? Weeks? If any other game were to require weeks of play before it "starts opening up", I would have trashed it ages ago. Luckily World of Warcraft got a bit more interesting once I moved out of the Tauren newbie village, but that still took several hours.

It's already been stated but I simply don't see the same game you do. The game I see is downright incredible in some of its environments. I think you'll start to change your impression when you begin tromping through Stranglethorn Vale, Ashenvale, Winterspring and a few others.
I already said, I did change my impression when I saw Mulgore and The Barrens. The Night Elf environment is terrible, I have no problem saying that, and that unfortunately was my first introduction to the game. But otherwise the scenery has been quite enjoyable. My jaw dropped when I went on my first trip by air transport. I was expecting a loading screen, and to reappear at my destination. Much to my surprise, I got to watch as my character was flown across the entire land, without any pauses, from one side of the continent to the other.

The best visuals I've seen are the oases in the Barrens. After seeing the lush foliage and jungle setting I know what the engine is capable of, and it makes the Night Elf starting location that much less forgiveable.

It's absolutely true that there are no attribute assignments at the beginning. There doesn't need to be. I always thought attribute assignments were dumb anyway but that's just me (obviously they aren't dumb or no games would have them). Attributes can change greatly through your equipment which if you really think about it, that happens anyway even in an attribute assignment game.

Personally, I love the fact that they are pre-assigned. It fits better in a PvP model in which the person in charge of the character totally decides the character's fate. The pre-assigned attribute model also compliments the crafting philosophy because crafting definately can make a huge difference character to character. You won't see this until whatever crafting assignment you take hits the 230 mark or so because that's when the radical change takes place. At the artisan level you're no longer going up in small increments but rather take some huge jumps in quality for the items you craft.
Except that not being able to choose the character's attributes accomplishes the exact opposite of allowing the person to totally decide the character's fate. If you REALLY wanted people to have full control, you'd let them assign their attributes and THEN give them a robust character customization system during the game. By the way, regarding character customization, it doesn't even START until level 10 (the talent system). Why?? I can't figure that out.

I do not like it when games base stats around equipment. The result is that the character you're playing is a sum of all the junk he's carrying, as opposed to having any real appreciable skills himself. I would rather have a character that was powerful and dangerous all on his own, with equipment serving only as a help. Armour that boosts intellect by 5? That's dumb.

I suspect that Blizzard didn't want to give RPG newbies a complex setup process before playing the game, which is why you don't really have to create a character. Except that if Blizzard was so concerned about newbie impressions, they should not have made the start of the game so tedious. In other words, they screwed up.

All that said, I have begun to appreciate the game and have been having fun. I wasn't able to play very much at all on the weekend, and I doubt I will this week. I am extremely busy with work, wedding planning, and other commitments. I'm absolutely exhausted. Currently my Tauren druid is at level 11, and I just gained the ability to turn into a bear. I like.

[Renzatic Gear]

I think they made levels 1 - 10 so tedious because it's almost how other MMO's play from beginning to end. Blizzard wanted to ease the MMO fans into the game by giving em what they're already familiar with I guess. :P

As for equipment determining your stats...well...it's Blizzard. They've molded the Find Cool Stuff To Improve Your Dood gameplay to perfection with Diablo 2, and I doubt they'd abandon it for WoW. It does have it's purpose though, it makes going deep into some scary dungeon to find cool loot all the more worthwhile.

[Hieremias]

I never played either of the Diablo games. Was not in the least bit interested. And as a guy who hates micro-managing his equipment, this model is not my favourite.

[I.B. Chance]

It took me hours of play just to get to level 9. How long before I get to level 20? Weeks? If any other game were to require weeks of play before it "starts opening up", I would have trashed it ages ago. Luckily World of Warcraft got a bit more interesting once I moved out of the Tauren newbie village, but that still took several hours.


Most any mmorpg's progression is usually dependent on its level cap. WOW took me just over two months of relatively casual play to reach the cap. I like the progression in WOW. In Asheron's Call, the level cap was so ridiculously high that it would take almost three years to max out a character. In DAOC, the pace was incredibly boring and Asheron's Call 2 was just stunningly stupid as characters could be maxxed in two weeks. I like WOWs because the goal is out there, it's just not impossible. What I have found is that questing is the best way to move a character along. There's an Everquest mentality for most mmorpg's concerning camping but camping for xp in WOW is a total waste of time.

I already said, I did change my impression when I saw Mulgore and The Barrens. The Night Elf environment is terrible, I have no problem saying that, and that unfortunately was my first introduction to the game. But otherwise the scenery has been quite enjoyable. My jaw dropped when I went on my first trip by air transport. I was expecting a loading screen, and to reappear at my destination. Much to my surprise, I got to watch as my character was flown across the entire land, without any pauses, from one side of the continent to the other.

The best visuals I've seen are the oases in the Barrens. After seeing the lush foliage and jungle setting I know what the engine is capable of, and it makes the Night Elf starting location that much less forgiveable.

And to be perfectly honest, I think the Barrens and Mulgore are two of the more mundane areas. To me Stranglethorn Veil, Plaguewood and Duskwood are pretty impressive. You have a ton of great things left to see.

Except that not being able to choose the character's attributes accomplishes the exact opposite of allowing the person to totally decide the character's fate. If you REALLY wanted people to have full control, you'd let them assign their attributes and THEN give them a robust character customization system during the game. By the way, regarding character customization, it doesn't even START until level 10 (the talent system). Why?? I can't figure that out.

The reason I think that attributes are a silly waste of time is that usually all that is accomplished by their use is not so much great planned characters running around but rather totally gimped characters because you don't know how your attribute assignments are actually going to fit into the world until AFTER you have played the character for quite a while.

I do not like it when games base stats around equipment. The result is that the character you're playing is a sum of all the junk he's carrying, as opposed to having any real appreciable skills himself. I would rather have a character that was powerful and dangerous all on his own, with equipment serving only as a help. Armour that boosts intellect by 5? That's dumb.

It may be dumb but it sure as heck is a boon to the economy. The economy in WOW is absolutely amazing. I don't know if that's your cup of tea but it is definately mine. I just bought an epic mount for 900 gold. I think you should know how hard that can be by now and if you like that sort of thing then I believe you're looking at one of the best systems for economics. The thing is, yeah it was two months of gold gone but I fly by every creature there is now and I have a blast putting in a little time in the marketplace. To me, it was worth it.

The other thing worth mentioning is that the "free" trade skills, cooking, first aid and fishing are actually important which usually isn't the case in most mmorpgs. I figured they would be a total waste of time but I went ahead and maxxed them anyway and I'm glad I did. Yes, fishing is boring but sometimes it's a nice change if you just want to relax while chatting with your guild etc.

I suspect that Blizzard didn't want to give RPG newbies a complex setup process before playing the game, which is why you don't really have to create a character. Except that if Blizzard was so concerned about newbie impressions, they should not have made the start of the game so tedious. In other words, they screwed up.

All that said, I have begun to appreciate the game and have been having fun. I wasn't able to play very much at all on the weekend, and I doubt I will this week. I am extremely busy with work, wedding planning, and other commitments. I'm absolutely exhausted. Currently my Tauren druid is at level 11, and I just gained the ability to turn into a bear. I like.

The druid is a hard class to play in my opinion but that doesn't make it any less fun. I think you'll like the aspect of the cheetah, keeps you from buying a horse. By the way, druids many times are highly sought after in the Scholomance level 60 raid instance where they can negate some of the magic thrown in there.

[Renzatic Gear]

Yup, the druids are sort of a jack-of-all-trades class, they can be rogues, warriors, and..um..sea cows with their shape shifts and can fill in as a healer on the side. Basically they can change into any class that's needed and offer extra support...but they don't have much that they can be considered the best at.

I.B, I can't believe you forgot Desolace in your big list 'o cool places. it's really dark and dreary in the middle (http://users.chartertn.net/greymatt/desolace.jpg), but the outer edges of the desert have this sorta greek feel to it that I really liked (http://users.chartertn.net/greymatt/desolace2.jpg). It seems more frontierlike than anything, and it's all mysterious.

It and Silverpine forest were my favorite areas in the game...next to the outer town of Scholomance, which I ventured into by following the river north of Hillsbrad when I was 30. I didn't get to go into the actual dungeon, but I got to explore the surrounding town...hearing those disembodied voices talk was kinda creepy, specially when there wasn't anyone else around with me.

[I.B. Chance]

Yup, the druids are sort of a jack-of-all-trades class, they can be rogues, warriors, and..um..sea cows with their shape shifts and can fill in as a healer on the side. Basically they can change into any class that's needed and offer extra support...but they don't have much that they can be considered the best at.

Simply great class to have in out-of-doors adventures in the Plaguelands as they can cure disease and disease is a real pain out there.

I.B, I can't believe you forgot Desolace in your big list 'o cool places. it's really dark and dreary in the middle (http://users.chartertn.net/greymatt/desolace.jpg), but the outer edges of the desert have this sorta greek feel to it that I really liked (http://users.chartertn.net/greymatt/desolace2.jpg). It seems more frontierlike than anything, and it's all mysterious.

Well to be honest, I was sure thinking about it because of all the instances, Maraudan is my favorite. I could also easily put the Burning Steppes and the Searing Gorge in there and who can't appreciate the Loch and Thelsamar.

It and Silverpine forest were my favorite areas in the game...next to the outer town of Scholomance, which I ventured into by following the river north of Hillsbrad when I was 30. I didn't get to go into the actual dungeon, but I got to explore the surrounding town...hearing those disembodied voices talk was kinda creepy, specially when there wasn't anyone else around with me.

There is a chain quest in Scholomance that when completed, allows you to see the ghosts behind the voices once you complete it. How's that for innovation.

[Renzatic Gear]

Got a quick question here since I never got to raid levels...

What is it about Scholomance that requires you to drag 50 other people in tow to beat it instead of the usual 5? When I was outside it looked like the entrance to a regular dungeon save for the fact that you needed a key to get in...does it get bigger once you get in?

[Static_Fred]

Alright Renzatic Gear, where have you been???????
I'm now a lvl38 priest on Thunder Lord. The money is starting to flood in and i'm finally starting to kick major booty in PvP as a shadow Priest.
I currently have 80gold saved up, on my way to purchasing my mount as soon as i get to lvl 40. Can't wait!!! I hope you come back!

[Renzatic Gear]

Eh, I've got other things to do at the moment...WoW was occupying all my comp time and I wasn't about to try to juggle it and the mod at the same time. That'd require me to sit in front of the comp 24/7, and with summer coming up I'm gonna start going outside again...so...WoW had to go.

I'll play it again eventually, just not right now. :P

[Hieremias]

Yup, the druids are sort of a jack-of-all-trades class, they can be rogues, warriors, and..um..sea cows with their shape shifts and can fill in as a healer on the side. Basically they can change into any class that's needed and offer extra support...but they don't have much that they can be considered the best at.

I.B, I can't believe you forgot Desolace in your big list 'o cool places. it's really dark and dreary in the middle (http://users.chartertn.net/greymatt/desolace.jpg), but the outer edges of the desert have this sorta greek feel to it that I really liked (http://users.chartertn.net/greymatt/desolace2.jpg). It seems more frontierlike than anything, and it's all mysterious.

It and Silverpine forest were my favorite areas in the game...next to the outer town of Scholomance, which I ventured into by following the river north of Hillsbrad when I was 30. I didn't get to go into the actual dungeon, but I got to explore the surrounding town...hearing those disembodied voices talk was kinda creepy, specially when there wasn't anyone else around with me.
I like the idea of being a jack-of-all-trades. I was reading some forums on druids and they're basically a swiss army knife. They can heal, cast offensively, and tank, depending on the situations. Plus they have Mark of the Wild, the best buff in the game (so I'm told), so parties like that. I've done a few quests in a group, and I don't mind taking the primary role of a healer, but the other members don't have to babysit me. I can take care of myself, just turn on bear form and start mauling.

It should be noted that druids received a HUGE upgrade in the latest patch, prior to me starting the game. People were complaining about them being underpowered before. I can't remember all the details, but one was increasing the armor bonus in dire bear form from 125% of your base, to 360%. That's a whack of a jump. Druids can now tank pretty well.

Plus it seems druids are probably the single best solo class available, simply because they can do everything reasonably well. I'm only at level 11 and I've not done much (any) PvP, but I know that I can easily handle any monster 1 or 2 levels above me. Hit them with some offensive spells, root them in place, more offensive spells, when they get close turn to a bear and it's all over. If I absolutely must, I can (in humanoid form) do a war stomp--a Tauren racial ability, stuns enemies for 2 seconds--and then heal myself mid-battle.

When I play party RPGs like Baldur's Gate 2, I want everyone to be extremely specialized. I never multi-class, there's no point. I want dedicated tanks, dedicated healers, dedicated sorcerers. (The only time I multi-class is with rogues, there's no purpose in those games to having a high-level pure rogue, so I make him a fighter too and let him use ranged weapons.) But when playing single-character RPGs, like Morrowind or World of Warcraft, I want the ability to handle many different situations. Granted, I'm still fairly inexperienced, but I've never seen a class in WoW as versatile as mine.

[I.B. Chance]

Got a quick question here since I never got to raid levels...

What is it about Scholomance that requires you to drag 50 other people in tow to beat it instead of the usual 5? When I was outside it looked like the entrance to a regular dungeon save for the fact that you needed a key to get in...does it get bigger once you get in?


Well it is possible to do it with 5 level 60s but that's a rare occurance and everyone on the team has to do their jobs optimally. No room for any mistakes. If you want to clear the dungeon capably then 10 isn't out of the question at all. The bosses are mean for one thing. One can cast you into another part of the dungeon, another one can boot you right out a balcony window down to the ground below but the worst is the dark summoner room.

Basically that's 6 groups of 3 each in a 6-pack formation. 2 are alcolytes that cast magic and smack you around with a staff and 1 is a dark summoner. If you don't kill the dark summoners one at a time or you allow them to cast at all, you're party is done as they chain cast level 55 skeletons. The problem is that the alcolytes like to run away and alert the other summoners. I've been in groups where there were 25-30 skeletons cast in about two minutes. The carnage is pretty thorough.

And yes, most raid instances are incredibly huge. Raid instances like Scholomance, Black Rock Spire, Black Rock Depths and Maraudan cover more area than 5 to 10 Ironforges. That's why people go multiple times--they do one integral part of the instance and then come back and do the others later on. So far, Black Rock Depths is the best by far in my opinion but I haven't been to Stratholme yet.

When you enter an instance you're basically going through a hazy portal. You can see everything on the other side but before you go through the portal and you can see everything where you were just at but you're basically isolated server-wise from the rest of the population outside.

[I.B. Chance]

When I play party RPGs like Baldur's Gate 2, I want everyone to be extremely specialized. I never multi-class, there's no point. I want dedicated tanks, dedicated healers, dedicated sorcerers. (The only time I multi-class is with rogues, there's no purpose in those games to having a high-level pure rogue, so I make him a fighter too and let him use ranged weapons.) But when playing single-character RPGs, like Morrowind or World of Warcraft, I want the ability to handle many different situations. Granted, I'm still fairly inexperienced, but I've never seen a class in WoW as versatile as mine.

Here's the thing--they're ALL versatile. They don't all do what you expect them to do in most rpgs. Example, a warrior can cast a fear shout and debuff like crazy with their shouts. Mages can create food, cure curses; Priests can cure disease and cast a holy nova...you get the picture. There is not a single class that can't solo outdoors and there is no class that can solo elite quests and raid instances. Easily the best balanced mmorpg I've ever played.

[Hieremias]

Here's the thing--they're ALL versatile. They don't all do what you expect them to do in most rpgs. Example, a warrior can cast a fear shout and debuff like crazy with their shouts. Mages can create food, cure curses; Priests can cure disease and cast a holy nova...you get the picture. There is not a single class that can't solo outdoors and there is no class that can solo elite quests and raid instances. Easily the best balanced mmorpg I've ever played.
Meh, well, if ALL characters are extremely versatile, then all characters are essentially the same. But I have no reason to believe mages can fill the role of a party tank, or warriors be a party healer, or priests deliver vast amounts of ranged damage. The classes may be balanced in that none are overwhelmingly more powerful than the others (though I've heard complaints that paladins are too strong), but they are not all as versatile as the druid.

[Renzatic Gear]

Paladins get one really, really cheap trick that they can use in small PvP skirmishes and duels to almost guarentee a win.

When you've beat a paladin down to almost nothing they'll use an instant cast shield which makes them invurnerable to anything for about 10 seconds, heal up, then procede to continue the fight in their favor. It's cheap as hell, and the only way I know to get around it is to chain stun them at the right time and hope you get a few crits in to take em down.

Even though paladins can't hit too hard and it takes them forever to hack you down, they're nigh on impossible to kill unless you have a buddy wailing on him too. All you can do is run away from them if you're in a 1 on 1 fight.

[I.B. Chance]

Meh, well, if ALL characters are extremely versatile, then all characters are essentially the same. But I have no reason to believe mages can fill the role of a party tank, or warriors be a party healer, or priests deliver vast amounts of ranged damage. The classes may be balanced in that none are overwhelmingly more powerful than the others (though I've heard complaints that paladins are too strong), but they are not all as versatile as the druid.

My point is that they all can get to a certain end, they just use different and varied means to get there.