Kotor 2

[Friend_Bear]

I got kotor 2 earlier, and installing it now :) I'll let you guys know how it is later.

[Mochan]

The quick feedback I've heard recently is that it's bug-ridden. Please do tell.

[Friend_Bear]

So far, i've had no problems at all, no bugs just fun. Granted, i'm not that far into the game, just leaving the Prologue and Paragus Station (Pretty much a very large tutorial) the only minor concern I have with the game which i'm sure will be fixed with patches is that after combat sometimes it can take up to 20 seconds to allow you to move for some reason, not sure if this is a bug or intentional, personally I think it could be a bug.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

after combat sometimes it can take up to 20 seconds to allow you to move for some reason, not sure if this is a bug or intentional, personally I think it could be a bug.

Sounds like a bug to me!

[Hieremias]

The game freezes you after each combat for 20 whole seconds? That's definitely a bug.

Now if you're exaggerating, and it's only 1 or (at most) 2 seconds, that's fine. Remember KotoR basically uses the Neverwinter Nights engine, and while it looks like real-time it's really turn-based under the hood. So your character won't engage in new actions until a the previous combat "turn" ends (each turn lasts about 5 seconds, I think). You can see this when you queue up actions to perform, each one will take a couple seconds to complete, and in between your character will just sit there. It's not that the animations are sluggish, it's that the game adhere's to turn-based rules.

In the final turn of combat you'll strike the killing blow, the enemy will perform a death animation, and then at the end of that turn the combat will finish. Sometimes it looks like there's a brief pause, but that's just the turn coming to completion.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

"Remember KotoR basically uses the Neverwinter Nights engine, and while it looks like real-time it's really turn-based under the hood."

LOL I remember someone else saying this once apon a time as well! If NWN is turn-based then so is Morrowind! Every game follows predefined algorithms for determining hits, misses etcetera. Total nonsense, Jeremy. It's based off of a turn-based P&P game, doesn't mean it has to pause like one! The only difference between NWN and Morrowinds' combat resolutions? You can see exactly what you're doing in NWN via the Combat Console, broken down minutely. NWN doesn't pause when combat is over... you may not be able to rest (you're right it IS waiting for the turn to end), but I can sure as hell do anything else I want... like move, cast spells, attack someone else; I'm sure buried within Morrowinds' code there's a very similar process going on underneath its' hood. Example... the engine checks for other enemies close by, incoming projectiles, magic attacks, and so on, and so forth. Because it's invisible though, it's not noticeable. Sorry to jump on this like a pitbull on a poodle, but there's no excuse why the game should be pausing... even for a second.

[Hieremias]

...except that Morrowind doesn't have, in its game settings, the options to pause the game after each combat turn. NWN revolves around turn-based combat, you can see this in how it plays, you can see this in the options the game presents. How long does it take to cast a particular spell, or how long does the spell effect last? The answer is always given as a number of turns. I'm not talking about microsecond processor-increments like Morrowind or any first-person shooter, I'm talking about combat itself being broken into turns that are each several seconds long. Why do you think your character in NWN takes a few moments between sword swings? Is it to catch his breath?

And why do you recoil as if this is a bad thing? I didn't have any problem with it, I was just explaining things to Friend_Bear. Both NWN and KotoR have a very slight "pause" at the end of combat in order for the current turn to finish. It's not a bug, it's how the combat engine works. (Not a slight pause anyway, a 20-second pause is obviously a bug.)

Given how much time you've put into the game, you really should be able to see a difference in how NWN segments combat actions into turns, versus nearly every FPS which plays fluidly. This is not a bad thing, every Bioware game is made like this (the Infinity engine was also turn-based "under the hood").

[Suicides-by-Steve]

...except that Morrowind doesn't have, in its game settings, the options to pause the game after each combat turn.

Neither does NWN... In Baldur's Gate you can... NWN you can't set the engine to pause at the end of a round. Space bar pauses the combat at any time though. Once you receive around 3 or 4 attacks per round, it's next to impossible to determine when a round ends, and when another starts (besides reading through the Combat Console- you'll notice your highest Attack Bonus marks the beginning of your turn).

A turn in the NWN engine is exactly 1 minute in length real-time (30 minutes Game Time)... an Hour (GT) is 2 minutes RT. A round is 6 seconds RT (3 minutes GT- but we'll ignore this for now- :p). It's really hard to relate 1 minute segments to a turn-based game... especially considering most battles take only within 5 rounds (30 seconds real-time) to complete.

Like I said it's not a personal attack, just an observation on what I think is an erroneous comment.

[Mochan]

I'm more with Steve on this one, NWN isn't exactly turn-based. It's more "real-time," however when you execute certain actions, your character *will* initiate them and you'll sit there as it finishes up the duration of that action. As soon as one action is over you'll start the next one. The point though of course is that you can for the most part cancel any action and move around if need be (you don't exactly lose control, you just don't move cuz you're busy doing the action in "turn based converted to real time" time).

There is an important difference though with how Morrowind works. In NWN, all actions have a specific duration which is computed depending on your initiative, attacks per round, etc. These "pause" (term used lightly here) your character while he is executing it (although you may interrupt). In Morrowind though, when you do an action, it does everything immediately and the check under the hood is whether it hits or not and how much damage is done. It doesn't "pause" your character at all.


And why do you recoil as if this is a bad thing? I didn't have any problem with it, I was just explaining things to Friend_Bear.

Steve will recoil at anything that even remotely sounds like a criticism to NWN, lol.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Steve will recoil at anything that even remotely sounds like a criticism to NWN, lol.

Not entirely true. I was one of the first to criticize the game.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Not entirely true. I was one of the first to criticize the game.

Excerpt from my review of the game: "Now the single-player game. NWN is not the place to look for an award winning story. While not exactly boring, I have played better user-made modules than the trite adventure you can play solo out of the box. If you’re looking for a good, fast, well-written story, with plenty of action… move along to other games such as Morrowind or Dungeon Siege. Basically the single-player game makes you aware of the types of features and functions that can be performed with the Aurora NWN Toolset, no more, no less. It’s also an excellent way to become familiar with the different types of character classes available and becoming comfortable with the skill systems before connecting to a LAN or the ‘net for some serious fun. If I was rating this game simply because of the single player game, overall I would give it a mere 3. It’s the multiplayer that wins the day here."

[Mochan]

Yeah, that's why I never liked NWN, because I only played the single-player and man was it bad.

[Friend_Bear]

I just completed it, pretty good game. Some annoying puzzles but nothing totally bad, the ending is left open for a sequel :) Thats all i'm saying, time for me to start over playing the dark side this time hehehehehe I posted a favorable review for it.

[moya]

Completed it?! Man, do you do nothing else except play games?

Well, either that or this game is very short. But then, why the favourable review?

[Hieremias]

Does it have the same absolutely terrible art direction and map design as the original? I have never played a game with less believable environments than Knights of the Old Republic. It was absolutely ridiculous.

They should never have used the NWN engine for these games. NWN is the way it is because it was meant for people to easily put together their own maps. As such it makes serious concessions in the environments, everything is tile-based and very blocky. Straight vertical cliffs at right angles all over the place, caves with nothing but right-angle corners, buildings with massive black gaps between rooms. Environments aren't the least bit believable. But I can accept this with NWN, given its goal. KotoR I can't, since it was never made with mods in mind (console kiddies don't even know what a mod is).

Not only does KotoR get a 1 in graphics from me (because of the boring, repetitive, bland art direction), but this simplicity seriously affects the gameplay. I cannot think of a more disappointing game than Knights of the Old Republic; I so wanted it to be good, but it was an absolute turd.

Edit: Okay, Invisible War was pretty disappointing too. About on the same level.

[Friend_Bear]

Completed it?! Man, do you do nothing else except play games?

Well, either that or this game is very short. But then, why the favourable review?

I'm a games master :) i've been playing games ever since I was 5 lol The game does seem shorter than the original though and many parts not really that much of a challenge, if anyone decides to get this game I strongly suggest to increase the difficulty to hard over normal, the game should last longer then. The favorable review because I did enjoy the game, I don't think Lucasarts expect many people to play it 6 hours a day though :o lol

[Friend_Bear]

Does it have the same absolutely terrible art direction and map design as the original? I have never played a game with less believable environments than Knights of the Old Republic. It was absolutely ridiculous.

Don't even ask about the maps, some of the maps are just the original ones just with beefed up graphics, to be honest the maps proberly took the developers a month or two tops to complete, there is less than a handful of totally new maps, other than that its pretty much identical to the original just with some areas closed off, or other paths open.



Not only does KotoR get a 1 in graphics from me (because of the boring, repetitive, bland art direction), but this simplicity seriously affects the gameplay. I cannot think of a more disappointing game than Knights of the Old Republic; I so wanted it to be good, but it was an absolute turd.

Edit: Okay, Invisible War was pretty disappointing too. About on the same level.

I fully enjoyed the series so far, I agree though that they could have been a lot better, and definately could be longer, as for Invisible War, I played it for an hour then uninstalled it in disgust, terrible game not deserving of the Duex Ex name, in fact, proberly killed the future of the series :(

[moya]

Don't even ask about the maps, some of the maps are just the original ones just with beefed up graphics, to be honest the maps proberly took the developers a month or two tops to complete, there is less than a handful of totally new maps, other than that its pretty much identical to the original just with some areas closed off, or other paths open.

Uh oh. This does not bode well at all...

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Uh oh. This does not bode well at all...

I don't know what's scarier. The repetitive nature of the maps, or that he still likes the game in spite of it...

[DBS]

I will pass on K2. I didn't have much fun in the first one even though it had good reviews. I was not impressed and I am a Star Wars fan. I enjoyed Gothic 2 and Morrowind Tribunal more....

[Friend_Bear]

I do like the game, I has a stronger story and plot than the original.