Hey Hieremias

[Mochan]

Just out of curiousity, did you ever play and enjoy the KOTOR games?

[Hieremias]

Just out of curiousity, did you ever play and enjoy the KOTOR games?
There's only one so far that I know of. The sequel hasn't been released yet. Yes, I played the first, and it was extremely disappointing. Extremely. Barren, small environments without any detail, cookie-cutter characters, a bad script, oh and really boring, barren, empty, small environments...

[Mochan]

Ah okay, that's what I wanted to hear! :)

[Hieremias]

So... why'd you ask?

[Mochan]

Well I know you have a thing against console-style RPGs and KOTOR is about as console-based as they get on a PC. Just wondering how it held up in your eyes, since a lot of people call it the best thing ever though I personally didn't really enjoy it.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Well I know you have a thing against console-style RPGs and KOTOR is about as console-based as they get on a PC. Just wondering how it held up in your eyes, since a lot of people call it the best thing ever though I personally didn't really enjoy it.

I thought it was one of the biggest wastes of money myself. I wanted a Star Wars meets Neverwinter Nights, instead we got a steamy pile of crap. I'm basically putting Jade Empire and KotOR2 into the same pile as well.... Bioware really dropped the ball. My version of the game would have been terrific. Imagine... One box, Unlimited Universe! Damn LucasArts.

[Hieremias]

Well I know you have a thing against console-style RPGs and KOTOR is about as console-based as they get on a PC. Just wondering how it held up in your eyes, since a lot of people call it the best thing ever though I personally didn't really enjoy it.
I'm not sure I would call KotoR a "console-style RPG", at least it's not Japanese-style, it's definitely Western. It's problem is that it's simply underwhelming. Maybe I was expecting too much from a Star Wars RPG, or maybe Morrowind spoiled me. Either way, the game environments were just too simple, boring, and small. The game had virtually zero exploration. It should be noted I have these same objections to NWN, but the problems were worse in KotoR.

The combat system wasn't terrible, sort of a NWN-lite. The dialogue wasn't the worst I've ever heard, though most of the characters were either one-dimensional or ridiculously overacted. Bioware's signature NPC interactions were present, but Bioware's normal attention to the small details didn't survive the translation to a 3D engine. Ultimately the game was a huge letdown because I was hoping for the chance to explore a large Star Wars universe, in the style of Morrowind or Fallout or Baldur's Gate 2. I mean, the city on Tatooine (Mos something) amounted to a single street. One freakin' street.

[Mochan]

I'm not sure I would call KotoR a "console-style RPG", at least it's not Japanese-style, it's definitely Western.

Hence why I say "console-style" and not "Japanese-style."

The game is definitely Western but it's also more console-style than PC-style. Sure it has stuff like Bioware's NPC interactions, which are, well, sort of a Bioware exclusive rather than Console or PC style, but there were many things about it that are console-style.

Your complaint of lack of exploration and "single-street towns" is definitely a console hallmark. Console RPGs tend to have smaller areas as they hedge you around compared to a PC RPG that usually values non-linearity and exploration more. And although it used the D20 D&D system, the characters felt like the typical casting-in-roles characters of a console RPG. Plus the general screenplay was more console-like than PC-like.

Anyway I think I'll still give KOTOR 2 a look since it's not by Bioware. Somewhere along the line I think I developed an anti-Bioware complex.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Anyway I think I'll still give KOTOR 2 a look since it's not by Bioware. Somewhere along the line I think I developed an anti-Bioware complex.

Heh... It's done by Obsidian... Same guys doing NWN2 and KotOR2. Basically Bioware Jr. if you will. Feargus Urghart of old Black Isle heads the helm, instead of like the old Baldur's Gate days when the roles were reversed.

However, I too will be giving it a try, because even though I call the Bioware Jr, I know they have their own ideas, and it's for this sole reason why I haven't dumped my copy of KotOR yet. However, it's still using the Aurora Engine, and the D20 ruleset. It works great for swords and sorcery, but not very well for sci-fi blasters and forceshields. I think for the game they should have used a less transparent system, since I can't help relating the play to NWN everytime I play it, and am reminded at how disappointed I am at the lack originality that NWN had, but KotOR lacks.

If the second turns out to be good, I want to use the older game as reference material. I don't think it's really a Bioware problem at all... I would blame LucasArts instead... It's their policy that doesn't allow blood, and their insistance that the game be concurrently developed, among a load of other stipulations.

[moya]

Personally, I quite enjoyed the game (I know you weren't asking me, but hey...).

I gave my thoughts on it in this thread (http://forums.videogamereview.com/showthread.php?t=1332), specifically this post (http://forums.videogamereview.com/showpost.php?p=22519&postcount=7), so I won't go through it all again. Suffice it to say that it felt more like Star Wars than the new movies, and that gave me a warm glow inside when I played it.

[Hieremias]

Personally, I quite enjoyed the game (I know you weren't asking me, but hey...).

I gave my thoughts on it in this thread (http://forums.videogamereview.com/showthread.php?t=1332), specifically this post (http://forums.videogamereview.com/showpost.php?p=22519&postcount=7), so I won't go through it all again. Suffice it to say that it felt more like Star Wars than the new movies, and that gave me a warm glow inside when I played it.
Ahh, the warm glow. We can level all the arguments we want against a game, but you can't argue against the warm glow. I get the same feeling every time I enter Seyda Neen as a brand new character, or every time I take Alma using 3 guys and never firing a shot (knives, man, KNIVES!!), or every time I cruise around the City of Lost Heaven. Long live the warm glow.

[Mochan]

I've heard that Kotor 2 is still basically just Kotor 1, the main differences are in the quest/plot structure as well as how the NPC interactions go. Well we'll see. I didn't exactly hate Kotor 1 so I shouldn't have too much trouble with it.

And yeah, I still get that "warm glow" playing Suikoden 2 after all this time! Hahahaha.