Most anticipated game of 2005?

[Hieremias]

The boards have been dead lately. Let's discuss which 2005 game we are anticipating the most--that is, games that are either scheduled for 2005 or could "possibly" come out this year. Here's a few that I'm really looking forward to (in no particular order):

BioShock - Irrational Games' "spiritual successor" to System Shock 2. It's not a sequel, in fact it has nothing to do with the System Shock games (because Irrational doesn't own the intellectual property), but the developers promise the same type of gameplay, the same scary atmosphere. Release date is TBA but it's been in development for 3 years.

Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - The granddaddy for me, this one will be gaming nirvana if they pull off even half of what they're promising. I don't think anyone needs any more introduction for this. Release date is TBA, making it by Christmas 2005 is probably a long shot, but it's possible. Has been in development for at least 3 years.

F.E.A.R. - Monolith's next-gen shooter that shows some spectacular particle effects and possibly some really scary horror segments. The videos that have been released are pretty sweet, and Monolith is a proven developer in my books. Release date is in June (I think).

S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Shadows of Chernobyl - The huge open-ended shooter that was originally meant for 2004. We all know what this one's about. Release date is sometime this summer, can't remember when exactly.

Gothic 3 - Sequel to a great game, unfortunately there's been no screenshots released yet. Developer claims that we'll either get it for Christmas 2005 or very shortly after--translation, 2005 is a long shot.

Other - Anything I missed? I know I left out some smaller titles that I personally am looking forward to (like The Witcher), but I thought these ones here would be the titles most likely to get the votes on this site.

[Renzatic Gear]

It's a pretty even run between STALKER, Gothic 3, and ES4...but in the end I voted for Gothic because the first 2 games are among my all time most favorites.

[Friend_Bear]

I voted for ES4, because you know its going to rock :D

[Hieremias]

It's a pretty even run between STALKER, Gothic 3, and ES4...but in the end I voted for Gothic because the first 2 games are among my all time most favorites.
Do you consider Gothic 2 to be a better game than Morrowind?

Gothic 2 was fun, had a good combat system and an interesting world to explore. The NPCs were kinda silly and the NPC schedule system was HIGHLY overrated (they only had a grand total of 3 states: daytime activity, evening pub crawl, nighttime sleep, rinse and repeat). It was a good game, especially considering their low budget. But Gothic 2 compared to Morrowind is like a chocolate bar next to a steak dinner.

I expect Gothic 3 will be the same. A great game in its own right (a lot better than the console-style RPGs like KotoR), but it'll be like a baby version of Oblivion. I expect Gothic 3 will give me a month or two of great RPG experience. I expect Oblivion will keep me going for years, just as Morrowind has.

[Hieremias]

To the person who voted "Other", what game did I miss?

[Renzatic Gear]

Yeah, overall I would put Gothic 2 above Morrowind. MW was fun from an exploration standpoint, but is alot more static in comparison. Gothic 2's world felt more interesting and alive, certain places felt more...I dunno...homey and familiar after awhile, like you were making your way in the world and got to know everyone in certain areas.

Oblivion does sound like it's taking the best parts for both MW and Gothic and mixing them together with some Thief...if it lives up to it's promise then it'll probably be one of my favorite RPG's of all time. But for now I'm going with my preferred series of the 2.

[Aku]

I'll vote for BioShock. Why? Oblivion is obviously the big kid on the block. But I'm intrigued by a game that is the first in its genre since Deus Ex five years ago - a genre that has been poorly, horribly ignored. So, another big game from a popular genre versus a game following in the footsteps of an all-time classic. It's BioShock for me. Of course, with no screenshots yet I'm sure BioShock will fall off the radar by summer, while Oblivion will be released and be a huge monster hit. ;)

[Suicides-by-Steve]

What did you miss? Guild Wars for me...

[Aku]

Yeah, overall I would put Gothic 2 above Morrowind. MW was fun from an exploration standpoint, but is alot more static in comparison. Gothic 2's world felt more interesting and alive, certain places felt more...I dunno...homey and familiar after awhile, like you were making your way in the world and got to know everyone in certain areas.

I stil have to play the Gothic games. I think the whole point of Morrowind was to create the world and let the modders fill it up, which makes it different from most other single player RPGs. The world is much less static when you start modding the game and downloading some of the adventures that people come up with, though I agree it will always feel a little stiff. I should go back and play it just to try some more of them, but I'm still in the middle of some Thief fan missions and UT2004.

[Hieremias]

Ahh, sorry Steve. I knew I had a nagging feeling that there was at least one more game that should be on the list (I tried to pick only titles that appeal to the PCGR crowd though). My bad.

To me Morrowind beats Gothic 2 simply because the world was more believable. Gothic 2's was too ordered, too precisely laid out. Also I loved the architecture and art design of Morrowind, the game just looked incredible. Gothic 2 was very traditional in that sense, and compared to Morrowind just didn't look very creative.

The only area where Gothic 2 was ahead was with the NPCs. Yes the NPCs had schedules, but more importantly they also had activities. In Morrowind every single NPC would either be standing or walking. There were NO other animations. Gothic 2 had people hammering, farming, sitting, preaching, etc.

Aku, here's the only Bioshock screenshot that I know of. This game is very high on my anticipated list too (all the games in the poll are). By the way, let me know when you get broadband and we can play a game of UT2k4. Make sure you download the two Community Bonus Map Packs released by Epic.

<img src="http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/reviews/924919_20041008_screen003.jpg" width="800">

[gridtalker]

Ahh, sorry Steve. I knew I had a nagging feeling that there was at least one more game that should be on the list (I tried to pick only titles that appeal to the PCGR crowd though). My bad.

To me Morrowind beats Gothic 2 simply because the world was more believable. Gothic 2's was too ordered, too precisely laid out. Also I loved the architecture and art design of Morrowind, the game just looked incredible. Gothic 2 was very traditional in that sense, and compared to Morrowind just didn't look very creative.

The only area where Gothic 2 was ahead was with the NPCs. Yes the NPCs had schedules, but more importantly they also had activities. In Morrowind every single NPC would either be standing or walking. There were NO other animations. Gothic 2 had people hammering, farming, sitting, preaching, etc.

Aku, here's the only Bioshock screenshot that I know of. This game is very high on my anticipated list too (all the games in the poll are). By the way, let me know when you get broadband and we can play a game of UT2k4. Make sure you download the two Community Bonus Map Packs released by Epic.
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<img src="http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/reviews/924919_20041008_screen003.jpg" width="800">

Looks Great

[Mochan]

I'm looking forward to Oblivion the most. Although I've always been let down by TES, it's only because my standards have always been set so high. Otherwise, TES scrolls are still fun, and Oblivion looks like it plans to address the most glaring problems I had with Morrowind (framerates, combat, character models, generic unresponsive NPCs and music). If the Radiant AI is anything like they say it's going to be, then it looks like it's going to be the best RPG ever.

Stalker looks interesting although I don't like the setting too much.

BioShock sounds like System Shock crossed with Bio Forge. Well I'm not looking forward to it but I'll pick it up when I have the change. I somehow enjoy scaring my pants off playing FPS.

Never heard of FEAR. But if it's good I'll probably play it soone or later.

Gothic 3... I somehow managed to finish Gothic 1 despite all its shortcomings, but somehow I couldn't make it past Gothic 2 anymore. It seemed like more of the same. If Gothic 3 is still like that I'll just keep playing Morrowind until Oblivion comes out.


I'm also looking forward to Stronghold 2.

[Mochan]

I put Morrowind above Gothic 2. Way above actually. But then again I didn't really play Gothic 2 too much. It still had the things I didn't like about Gothic 1. Now that I've finished Thief 3 and have nothing on my PC except Rome, maybe I'll pick up Gothic 2 again.

Hieremias, you said it had a good combat system? Gothic 1's combat was one of its major turnoffs. It was as bland as Morrowind's, with the added inconvenience of a very unresponsive control system. What little I played of Gothic 2 looked like it had the same system.

Gothic's worlds definitely feel more alive than Morrowind's, but then that's not very hard to do since Morrowind's NPCs are so stale and generic it's not even up to par with the walking talking signposts of Daggerfall. But that didn't make it a better game by a long shot.

Dobian, you mentioned the whole point of Morrowind was to create a game and have modders fill it up, but actually that was probably just an unexpected but unbelievably good sideeffect. I heard the Bethsoft team just included the TesConKit for the heck of it, as an afterthought, I bet they never dreamed it would give Morrowind the same kind of longevity The Sims has.

[Hieremias]

I didn't play Gothic 1 but the sequel's combat system combined stats and human skill. Very few games do that, Morrowind was just whack-and-pray, there was no combat skill involved. Gothic 2's controls were a little wonky, they took getting used to (but once I did I thought it was okay). I hope for Gothic 3 they use more standard controls, they can still get the fighting system to work with an interface everyone is used to.

Gothic's NPCs felt more realistic than Morrowind's, but the world itself was too fake. Laid out very orderly, very segmented. And for Morrowind's mods, Bethsoft was advertising months in advance that the game's tools would be included. They even released videos showing how "easy" it was (of course those videos make it look easier than I found it).

Personally I do not think you can separate Morrowind from its mods when you're reviewing the game. There are mods that make it an overwhelmingly better gameplay experience, such as the SuperAdventurer. There are mods that vastly improve the character models, sound effects, lighting, everything. The developers released the tools precisely so the community could build on, improve, and keep the game reasonably up-to-date with current technology. To completely ignore the mods when reviewing is to ignore that effort on behalf of the developers.

One of UT2k4's biggest strengths is its easy in modding, and the sheer number of mods you can download for it. There is a truly enormous amount of content available for UT2k4 for free, and you can't give an objective review of the game without at least mentioning that. Morrowind is the same, I don't see any reason to complain about something that a free mod fixes. So no more b!tching about cliff racers, people!

[Aku]

I couldn't imagine Morrowind without mods. It would be like Thief without fan missions. It would be....tragic. :eek:

[Renzatic Gear]

The one reason why I prefer Gothic 2 over Morrowind...the sense of danger. It was all but lacking in MW, but in G2 you were always worried about going into that creepy cave or dark forest cuz you never knew what was in there.

I like difficult games cuz it draws me in alot more than an easier game would. G2 always had me stocking up on potions and any equipment I could scrounge up because I never new what I was gonna get into..it felt more like an adventure than Morrowind.

[Mochan]

The problem with Gothic's combat is that the responsiveness was very awkward. Yes, it combined stats and it combines skill, but actually Diablo does that, and does it much better. :)

It's not just a matter of being wonky, it felt extremely clumsy and a wrong key press would leave you swinging too long, and dying. Well I guess when I want an action portion to my RPG, I want it to play as smoothly as my old Famicom games.

And yes, Gothic's world is very segmented and linear. You often feel like you're being herded, if not by real walls, then by the creatures which massacre you when you go into an area you're not supposed to yet.

And yes, Morrowind is really made by its mods. If there were no mods for Morrowind, I would have stopped playing it after a month. With the mods I'm playing it even up to now. I'm waiting for Wizard Isles actually, I doubt it'll ever come out though, I think Oblivion will come out first.

Still, I have to say that you can't review something like Morrowind without mentioning its flaws pre-modding. I mean, even when it first came out, its character models were way behind the times. I mean, they just looked awful, period. Gothic had better character models than Morrowind! And that's not saying much!

And yes, Gothic definitely had that sense of danger. This is partly because Morrowind was just too easy (which, well, gets fixed by mods but as you can see it already became a point against it), and mostly because Gothic was just too freaking hard. Or rather, you can die WAY too easily. There are monsters that can kill you in one hit at the start of the game, and nothing's stopping you from running into them. Even the lower level enemies will clean your clock if you're not careful.

[Renzatic Gear]

Wizards Isle is almost done isn't it? Hell, it was supposed to be out by now.

Anyway, it's obvious you played Gothic 2 using the oldschool controls. The fighting becomes a helluva lot more intense and entertaining when you switch to the new controls. They gave people the option cuz, weirdly enough, people actually liked the way Gothic 1 controlled.

And I never felt herded in Gothic 2. Even though you have those pockets of really tough monsters you could still get through em if you played your cards right and did it with some care. It made the world feel more genuine to me, sneaking through the deep woods in a war torn land shouldn't be a matter of just running through the foliage..you gotta crawl on your belly and be prepared for anything that comes your way.

The only thing I hated was how the designers thought it'd be funny if they put a really tough monster in an area surrounded by easy ones. You'd be going through the woods outside of town slashing up wolves for their pelts when suddenly...OH HELL CRAP BIG EVIL BLACK MONSTER RUN RUN RUN OH I DIED!

[Aku]

The problem with Gothic's combat is that the responsiveness was very awkward. Yes, it combined stats and it combines skill, but actually Diablo does that, and does it much better. :)

Wizardy combines stats and skills too. :)

[moya]

Hmm... It's tough, but for me it's a toss up between ES4 and STALKER. I'll go for ES4 I think, simply because of all the cool stuff that is planned to go in. Better to shoot for the moon...

[Mochan]

LOL, well wouldn't having the random super monster keep you on your toes and make the world more realistic? I think that's a good touch in a way.

Mind you I don't disapprove of having areas with tough monsters, it's just that it was rather highly inconvenient in Gothic 1 because the combat was really tough and it was rather hard escaping from those super monsters. I think I will install Gothic 2 later when I get home, I've had my fill of playing 2 funky h games (Jinkou Shoujo 2 and Biko 3) and it's time to move on to some real gaming.


Wizardy combines stats and skills too.

Methinks you're thinking of a different definition of skill, lol.

[Aku]

Methinks you're thinking of a different definition of skill, lol.

Well, the characters have different stats based on race, and they can develop skills. :confused:

In Wizardry 8, the early game is incredibly frustrating, as your level 5 party repeatedly runs into packs of level 10 adversaries. They really needed to rebalance the early game, which drove a lot of players away.

[Mochan]

I think when the topic of skill and stats was first brought up, it was referring to how, when you fight, you need player hand arcade skill to hit the enemies, then stats to actually do damage.

It wasn't referring to having primary attribute stats bolstered by skills which your character can learn.

[Aku]

My memory is a little fuzzy, but I thought that was how Wizardry 8 worked. A mook character (or whatever) with 50 strength would always do more damage with a weapon than a fey character of 25 strength and the same skill.

[karnie]

Stop kidding yourselves... there's no way Oblivion is going to be remotely done in 2005. I'll bet a years pay it barely makes 2006. Therefore STALKER rules!!!

[Renzatic Gear]

That's true. One of the designers, forgot his name, said that there was "no way in hell" that Oblivion was coming out in 2005. But everyone was having so much fun I didn't feel like peeing on their parade.

So by default STALKER is everyones most anticipated game.

[moya]

Aku, 'skill' here refers to your own skill--you sitting there with mouse in one hand and keyboard under the other--i.e. how well you can react, dodge, aim and hit by manipulating the mouse/keyboard controls. 'Stats' meanwhile refers to anything which is within the game and subject to game rules. Because Wiz8 used turn-based combat, there was very little need for 'player skill' in the sense used here. In Gothic, on the other hand, combat is real-time and dodging and aiming is critical to your success. So 'player skill' is important in Gothic, although stats play a big role too.

[Hieremias]

That's true. One of the designers, forgot his name, said that there was "no way in hell" that Oblivion was coming out in 2005. But everyone was having so much fun I didn't feel like peeing on their parade.

So by default STALKER is everyones most anticipated game.
Fine, rain on my parade. Fine, if I can't pick Oblivion, then BioShock is next on the list. I DON'T CARE IF THE RELEASE DATE ISN'T ANNOUNCED!

If I absolutely MUST pick a game whose release date is firmly set in 2005 (like Half-Life 2's was in 2003), then Stalker is my choice. At any rate, I wanted to put up games that I'm really looking forward to and maybe, MAYBE could be seen this year. Contrary to what many other people are saying, 2004 was not a spectacular year in my books. Lots of good games, no great ones. There was nothing that truly stood up from the others, and yes that includes Half-Life 2. A serious lack of RPGs in 2004 was one big problem, and I have trouble getting all excited over just another run-and-gun shooter.

But with titles like Oblivion, BioShock, and Stalker in the future, I remain optimistic.

[Mochan]

My memory is a little fuzzy, but I thought that was how Wizardry 8 worked.

LOL, Aku, you miss the pont. I don't mean hit percentages derived from your sword skill stat, aim skill stat, or whatever. I mean actually hitting a target using *YOUR* reflexes as a human, controlling your in-game avatar with your mouse, keyboard, joystick, whatever. Think FPS skills crossed with RPG stats.

But yes, you are right, Wizardry 8 does work by taking into account your character's weapon and hit skills to make the hit, and then other stats like strength, weapon, etc. to determine damage.

And yes Oblivion will likely be coming out 2006 at the earliest. This is fine because it means I have more time to age my PC before upgrading. But no, Stalker is not my most anticipated, I'm still waiting on Stronghold 2. Also like Hieremias, 2004 was an extremely lackluster year for me. Sure it had Doom 3, Half Life 2, Sims 2, World of Warcraft, etc. but those aren't really the kind of games I wet myself over, so 2004 was really a console year for me, not a PC year. I saw lots of great games on my PS2 this year, and some came out on the XBox as well that I might have enjoyed, but not much on the PC. The only PC game I really enjoyed this year was Thief 3. Which was a Great Game in my book, but only one game.

[Aku]

Aku, 'skill' here refers to your own skill--you sitting there with mouse in one hand and keyboard under the other--i.e. how well you can react, dodge, aim and hit by manipulating the mouse/keyboard controls.

LOL, Aku, you miss the pont. I don't mean hit percentages derived from your sword skill stat, aim skill stat, or whatever. I mean actually hitting a target using *YOUR* reflexes as a human, controlling your in-game avatar with your mouse, keyboard, joystick, whatever. Think FPS skills crossed with RPG stats.

Um....okay. That was pretty much how Morrowind played - which was why it was so easy.

[moya]

Well, Morrowind doesn't work quite like that.

In Morrowind you could be standing directly in front of an enemy and swing your sword and you can miss. To all intents and purposes you hit the enemy--you must have, you were RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE BUGGER! But the game doesn't register a hit. Whether or not you actually score a hit (or conversely, whether you block an incoming strike) is based on the in-game skills of your character, and a random dice roll, and there's very little need for player skill to carry off correctly timed dodges and blocks, etc. Hence combat in Morrowind tends to become a tedious and repetitive point and click affair without a great deal of depth.

Now, obviously, you as a player actually have to maneouvre your in-game avatar into position and run away, etc. But you have comparatively little input in the 'meat and potatoes' of combat than, say, Gothic (1 or 2). I suppose this is why everyone's looking forward to ES4, because player skill should be more of a factor in how well you do in the combat that game (although in-game character skills/stats will still determine how much damage you do).

[Mochan]

In Morrowind you could be standing directly in front of an enemy and swing your sword and you can miss. To all intents and purposes you hit the enemy--you must have, you were RIGHT IN FRONT OF THE BUGGER! But the game doesn't register a hit.

Same thing with Gothic actually. Morrowind and Gothic use similar systems. The main difference being Gothic's enemies are a lot smarter than Morrowind's, and that's not exactly saying much, whereas Morrowind's controls are a hell lot more responsive and smooth. Gothic's unresponsive controls coupled with the enemy AI also contributes to a lot more strategy and timing on your part.

Overall though I enjoyed Morrowind's combat more, mainly because it felt smoother, even though it was a whole lot more bland. I prioritize ease of movement over complexity in action, since I get frustrated when the character doesn't move properly the way I want them to. But that's really still not saying much. Combat was one of Morrowind's low points, and one of the crippling features that prevented me from truly enjoying the game a lot outside of the exploration.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

The combat in Morrowind is fine for me... The only problem I had with it was initally when I would miss, I had no idea that I was actually misiing... A combat resolution notice may have been nice for starters... Gothic was okay as well. Now Knights of the Old Republic I have a problem with... please tell me how someone deflects a laser without force powers or armour?

[Hieremias]

Mochan I don't think you know what Gothic's controls were about, at least not the sequel (I haven't played the original). The combat controls were not unresponsive, they simply relied on proper timing by the player. When you're swinging a sword you had to time the next swing well, or it wouldn't happen. This is not unresponsive, it's bringing in an element of player skill (which Diablo didn't even remotely have).

Like Steve, I also had no problem with Morrowind's combat. Yes there's room for improvement, and I'm excited to see what Oblivion will do, but Morrowind was not a combat-heavy game to begin with. In fact I tried to avoid combat as much as possible.

The combat in the Thief games was absolutely terrible--I don't mean because the guards were strong, I mean the movement was jerky and the sword was held awkwardly, plus it was soooo slow. But nobody rags on Thief for that, because combat wasn't its focus. In fact if you ever found yourself facing off toe-to-toe with a guard, you basically screwed up.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

In fact if you ever found yourself facing off toe-to-toe with a guard, you basically screwed up.

Heh... you mean all the times I purposefully started a scrap with three guards (which I could win hands down), I was messing up?! ;) I wish someone told me that ahead of time!

[Renzatic Gear]

Anytime you have to fight a guard in Thief you're a failure...on the inside. It's a shame you shouldn't be able to live with, even if you win. But then again you've probably got alot of guilt on your conscience as it is so it's probably nothing new for ya.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Anytime you have to fight a guard in Thief you're a failure...on the inside. It's a shame you shouldn't be able to live with, even if you win. But then again you've probably got alot of guilt on your conscience as it is so it's probably nothing new for ya.

He he!

[Aku]

Okay Hieremias, your recent pimping of Morrowind got me to fire up the game again. I started a new game with a Nordic fighter and got him to Balmora. But I don't know if I can stomach the tedious process of levelling up again, walking at a snail's pace and enduring gruelling dath matches with rats and cliff racers until my character gets stronger. So, I put that aside for now and downloaded the White Wolf of Lokken mod (lots of trees and snow rendered by the Morrowind engine - yikes!) which I'm playing with my super-cool nightblade character. That should keep me busy for a dozen hours or so. Then there's a couple other things I might download and play.

I'm just starved for a good rpg right now. I'm mad at myself for not picking up that used copy of Gothic for ten bucks at EBX a few weeks ago. Now I can't find it anywhere, unless I want to spend fifty bucks for it (bangs head on desk).

[Hieremias]

Heh, my recent Morrowind pimping got *me* to reinstall and go exploring again. I created a character completely different than anything I've done before. Traditionally I've always played as a wood elf thief-type character, with emphasis on long blades, archery, sneaking, and enchantments. (For making useful tools, enchanting is always the way to go.)

This time I picked a female (that's a first for me) Breton, and I'm going as purely a magic character. Primary skills are destruction, alteration, enchantment, short blade, and unarmored combat. Secondary skills are alchemy, restoration, sneak, athletics, and merchantile.

I started by just going on a sightseeing tour. Ahh, memories. Went back to my favourite places, like Pelagiad, Vos & Tel Vos, and Ebonheart.

Here's some screenshots. Keep in mind there's about 20 different mods running here, many of which VASTLY improve the visuals. There are mods that replace all the game's textures, replace the character models, re-do the robes for women so they look more feminin, replace all faces and hair, etc.

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Hieremias/morrowind1.jpg">

You gotta admit, she looks pretty hot huh? :)

<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v260/Hieremias/morrowind3.jpg">

[Papa Deuce]

I'm REALLY waiting for a little title called "The Movies"......

[Mochan]

I have no problem with timing, in Gothic 2 by "unresponsive" I am referring to the sluggish feel of movement. What you mentioned about Thief combat... that's pretty much how I feel about Gothic combat. Actually, Thief 1 and 2's combat were fine. It's Thief 3 that was the problem. Thief 3 felt "jerky." That's the easiest way for me to describe it. Gothic 2 was the same.

I could duel head to head with guards in Thief 1 and 2, no problems. In Thief 3 it was suicide. Gothic isn't quite as bad as that but there's no denying that Gothic felt clumsy. Perhaps I'm just spoiled on FPS smoothness but Gothic felt very clumsy. What's worse is the view made it hard to see your opponent's distance from you, since your character was in the way. Overall it could have been much improved.

Morrowind had none of the problems Gothic had, but has its own problems, mainly in the simplicity of the combat.

[Aku]

I had my main character pick up alchemy as a hobby after he had done everything else, but getting all the right ingredients and mixing them the right way was too tedious for me to get into. By the time my character was rich, it was way easier to just pay an enchanter to do up my weapons for me.

My Nord is just a fighter with a minor in restoration. I always wanted to be just a walking tank. In most RPGs I'm a magic character (my nightblade is your basic thief-mage), although in BG2 I was a monk (cool character!).

[Renzatic Gear]

Gothic 1 was kinda funky combatwise...having to hold the left mouse button and using the movement keys to swing your sword felt weird. But Gothic 2 completely fixed this problem (if you used the new movement system) and ended up being one of the better action RPG setups I've seen.

One thing I really like about Gothic's combat system is how you use your weapons depending on your skill level. If you're a straight up novice with a sword you'll be swinging slowly and using a 1 handed weapon with 2 hands. Become an expert and you're a whirling dervish, doing constant combos and hacking through your enemies before they even get a chance to strike back.

[Glockstar]

It's a pretty even run between STALKER, Gothic 3, and ES4...but in the end I voted for Gothic because the first 2 games are among my all time most favorites.

Whoa. Stop the press.

After all that STALKER pimping I can't believe that you picked another game as your most looking forward too. :eek:

Says something about Gothic 3, I guess.

Ah well, you got me to look. I went with STALKER.

- -

I don't mean to change the subject or get you guys off track but... isn't anybody looking forward to Matrix Online?

[Renzatic Gear]

Oh I'm still looking forward to STALKER, but it's been supplanted by the potential awesomeness of Gothic 3. The first 2 are among my favorite games of all time, just like I said above, so the 3rd one has me all hot and bothered.

But no matter what we're all looking forward to the most, STALKER is still gonna be the first one we play. It's supposed to be released sometime between March and May.

Edit: www.oblivion-lost.com has a realtime countdown for the games release...3 months and 7 days.

And PC Gamer UK put up a nice preview of the game. Apparently they're raving over how good the AI really is. The bit about how the guy playing shot down a helecoptor and the survivors ended up tracking him down and surrounding him in the sewers was pretty interesting.

[Hieremias]

Oh I'm still looking forward to STALKER, but it's been supplanted by the potential awesomeness of Gothic 3. The first 2 are among my favorite games of all time, just like I said above, so the 3rd one has me all hot and bothered.

But no matter what we're all looking forward to the most, STALKER is still gonna be the first one we play. It's supposed to be released sometime between March and May.

Edit: www.oblivion-lost.com has a realtime countdown for the games release...3 months and 7 days.

And PC Gamer UK put up a nice preview of the game. Apparently they're raving over how good the AI really is. The bit about how the guy playing shot down a helecoptor and the survivors ended up tracking him down and surrounding him in the sewers was pretty interesting.
Whoa, seriously?? I thought it was coming out late in the summer (for some reason I was thinking August). I've always been excited about this game but I sort of put it on the backburner thinking it was still half a year away.

[Mochan]

Gothic 2 was relatively good for a PC action RPG I guess but it's totally outdone by just about any console action RPG in terms of smoothness, response, and mechanics. I guess that's why I didn't really dig the combat that much.

Anyway with Stalker first up on bat, looks like it's the next game I'll be getting.

I think it's safe to assume that Oblivion will be the last of the three we'll be seeing .

[Mochan]

By the way Renzatic, have you tried playing Arx Fatalis? I preferred Arx's combat to Gothic's.

[Aku]

I just picked up a used boxed copy of Gothic 2 for just $10 with shipping. Couldn't resist, I'm in a total rpg mood right now (which is why I've dived back into Morrowind). Looked at the STALKER site for the first time after reading this thread. It really looks interesting. The setting is awfully bleak, though.

[Renzatic Gear]

By the way Renzatic, have you tried playing Arx Fatalis? I preferred Arx's combat to Gothic's.
Yup, I like it better than Morrowind's combat system cuz you can actually dodge attacks by moving out of the way...but I still like Gothic 2 best. :P

Looked at the STALKER site for the first time after reading this thread. It really looks interesting. The setting is awfully bleak, though.
lol, that's what makes it so cool. STALKER looks like it's gonna be creepy as hell, and I like that.

[Aku]

I guess it's creepy if you've got radioactive mutants on your a$$.

[Renzatic Gear]

There's more creepiness than just that, man. :P

[munkyc16]

i'm really looking forward to middle-earth online :D

[moya]

I'm a little worried about the quality of the writing and in-game dialogue in STALKER, because the standard of English on the official website is atrocious. Somebody reassure me that they'll hire a native (or at least competent) speaker to do the English translation in the game...

[Renzatic Gear]

I'd imagine they would. But if not...the Russlish adds atmosphere.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

I'd imagine they would. But if not...the Russlish adds atmosphere.

Oh, I hope you're not serious Renz... Many a potentially fine game has been demolished by bad voice-acting, and/or translations... Etherlords for one is a prime example (though that had a bunch of its' own problems)... Many games, I can't stand playing if they aren't localized properly... More than half of those Japanese RPG's I consider absolute crap due to that lack of decent translation...

[Hieremias]

Well I don't think bad voice acting can completely ruin a game, but it sure doesn't help. Gothic 2 and Chrome are examples, terrible voice acting but still decent games. Japanese RPGs are absolute crap for many reasons, not just translation.

That said, I will echo moya, I sure hope they get decent voice actors. When a game has really excellent voice acting it sure adds a lot. Vampire Bloodlines and Mafia are prime examples of voice acting at its finest.

[Aku]

I noticed in the poll on their website that a lot of people would like STALKER to be Russian with English subtitles. I've never played a game like that, but wouldn't be opposed to it. I have no problem watching subtitled movies, after all.

[Mochan]

Stalker's bleak setting is what I have misgivings over, too. I don't like bleak settings. But then I was okay with Fallout so it shouldn't be a problem.

As for Russian voices with English subtitles, that would be great, actually. I'm all for it. Rather than having a poor English dub (which is no longer as common as it used to be, but still happens)

[And_so_it_goes]

Yep, I voted for Russian. I think it would add a greater element of authenticity.

[Renzatic Gear]

You know I am, Steve. Good voice acting can make even a mediocre game seem great when you first get into it.

I'm expecting THQ to butcher it just to get it out here as quickly as possible. Instead of just subtitling the Russian and leaving it as it is they'll whip up a bunch of busboys and hobos and slap em in a studio. Hopefully they'll have a subtitle option and a volume slider.

But on a good note I expect someone to release the Russian soundpack over the internet for people that want the more true-to-life experience.

Edit: Oh, and Gothic 2 didn't have HORRIBLE voice acting..it was just really uneven. Some of the characters sounded great, others sounded like they were reading lines off a card.

[Hieremias]

I noticed in the poll on their website that a lot of people would like STALKER to be Russian with English subtitles. I've never played a game like that, but wouldn't be opposed to it. I have no problem watching subtitled movies, after all.
I picked English with Russian accents. I know it's cheesy, but when you're playing an action game you don't want to have to look down to read subtitles. That just ruins the immersion. I want my eyes to be focused on taking in the scenery, not reading text. Which is why I hate movies with extensive use of subtitles. Call me crazy, I just like understandable english.

Oh, and Gothic 2 didn't have HORRIBLE voice acting...
Yes it did. The script was terrible, the actors were bland, and worse, they didn't even have enough voice actors to go around. The guy who voiced Xardas did about a dozen other characters, including every single dragon, in the exact same voice. Geez!!

It's a good game but don't let nostalgia cloud good judgement. But then you guys all think the original Thief looks better than Thief 3, so I'm probably speaking to deaf ears. :)

[Mochan]

Gothic 2 most definitely had bad acting. At least 50% of the characters were quite really just reading off cards, including the main hero. If that isn't bad acting, I don't know what is. And yes as Hieremias said, recycling voice actors over a dozen roles makes it even worse.

And anyone who thinks Thief 1 looks better than Thief 3 needs an eye exam. I mean, REALLY. =_=

[Aku]

And anyone who thinks Thief 1 looks better than Thief 3 needs an eye exam. I mean, REALLY. =_=

First off, is Oblivion going to have some voice acting? One of the few downsides to Morrowind was the lack of voice acting, just some cheery "Greetings" followed by a tragic tale told via text by a smiling NPC.

Comparing graphics for Thief 3 to Thief 1 is tricky. Of course, the first time I ever fired up Thief 3 and saw the flickering fire light and the moonlight pouring in through the window, my own shadow dancing on the walls, I was sold (of course, my GPU didn't appreciate all this detail being funneled through it, but that's another story). Thief 1 graphics are primeval by comparison. People like myself admire Thief 1 graphics for their design more so than how good they are technically. When Thief 1 first came out, it didn't look like any FPS that came before it. The lighting and the textures were totally unique. Thief 1 looked gritty and didn't have that sterile feel that all other FPS games have. If Thief 1 had been done in the Quake or Unreal engines, it would have looked like just about every other game that came out at the time, just with the Thief theme.

I enjoy the graphics in Thief 1 and Thief 3 for different reasons. In Thief 3 it's all about the great lighting and shadow effects and bump mapping, but most of the buildings and objects themselves aren't particularly interesting to look at (they could be with some more inspired art design...where's that editor). In Thief 1 (and to a lesser extent Thief 2), it's the wild Harlequin ceiling with the hanging chandelier, and the weird painting with the pagan god and the chick.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Yeah, I thought all the voluminous shadowing/lighting in Thief 3 looked a bit artificial to me. Thief felt a bit more natural to me... as if they weren't trying to impress overly with new technology. Sure it looked good (T3), but the foggy transition zones, and unimpressive textures left me wanting more... grittiness, maybe. Found in spades in Thief: The Dark Project.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Well I don't think bad voice acting can completely ruin a game

Hehe... you haven't tried Etherlords then. My god that was pathetic voice acting (and Russian).

[Mochan]

First off, is Oblivion going to have some voice acting?

From what I understand, every single line in Oblivion will be voice-acted. How they're going to pull that off is beyond me, but that's what Bethesda said.

Maybe we'll be seeing our first 3 DVD game? :)

People like myself admire Thief 1 graphics for their design more so than how good they are technically.

I do that too; I recall some years back SbS and I were the main proponents of Thief's graphics. But one look at Thief 3 and even I honestly can't say its graphics are below Thief 1's.

[Hieremias]

Hehe... you haven't tried Etherlords then. My god that was pathetic voice acting (and Russian).
Heh, no I haven't. I have played games with ear-bleedingly bad voice acting, and while it definitely doesn't add to the experience at all, I can usually manage to overlook it. But, as I said, no Etherlords.

[Hieremias]

From what I understand, every single line in Oblivion will be voice-acted. How they're going to pull that off is beyond me, but that's what Bethesda said.

Maybe we'll be seeing our first 3 DVD game? :)
Or maybe they'll just reduce the amount of useless dialogue in Morrowind. So when you approach a random person on the street and ask them what's going on, they won't reply with a two-page phone directory of every store in town.

I would like to see the NPC dialogue in Oblivion a little more realistic. But the fact that they're doing voice-overs will probably necessitate that, so it's good news.

[Aku]

Real voice acting with real dialogue and conversation trees was the one significant thing lacking in Morrowind. This is great news.

[Eric-the-Red]

You guys are forgetting that translations (text translations) can be just as bad as poor voice acting! They'll have to hire a native English translator to translate the game whether or not there are subtitles. Think about it; bad voice acting is bad enough, but can you imagine how bad crappy subtitles would be??? What if you couldn't even understand what you were trying to read? Anyone remember "All your base are belong to us!?!?!?"

[Aku]

"Me you take secret laboratory".

I don't know, I think I'd like the camp factor.

[Renzatic Gear]

"Jimmy had a small house of brokerage on Wall Street... many days no business come to my hut... my hut... but Jimmy has fear? A thousand times no. I never doubted myself for a minute for I knew that my monkey strong bowels were girded with strength like the loins of a dragon ribboned with fat and the opulence of buffalo... dung. ...Glorious sunset of my heart was fading. Soon the super karate monkey death car would park in my space. But Jimmy has fancy plans... and pants to match. The monkey clown horrible karate round and yummy like cute small baby chick would beat the donkey. Feel my skills, donkey donkey donkey, donkey donkey."

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Heh, no I haven't. I have played games with ear-bleedingly bad voice acting, and while it definitely doesn't add to the experience at all, I can usually manage to overlook it. But, as I said, no Etherlords.

Well, one day when I get a few beers in me and some time to kill, I'll fire up Etherlords and rip a few samples of the VO's... Holy crap do they stink! LOL

[Mochan]

Think about it; bad voice acting is bad enough, but can you imagine how bad crappy subtitles would be?


My major source of entertainment is sub-titled anime. I can imagine VERY well. :)

But All your base is actually pretty good subtitling. I mean, not "good" but it's not "horrible." It's bad but it's a "funny bad" that makes it "good." Er... let's just say you still get it.

Bad subtitles would be like "We are experiencing mass naked child events." (actual meaning was "kidnappings") Well actually this is still funny... the really bad subtitles I don't wanna think about. =_=