Anyone else try out the DS?

[shogun]

Eb is putting up DS displays in preparation for the system's launch in a few days, so if anyone wants a taste of nextgen portables, you know where to go.

I gotta say after playing it, I'm not so sure I want to bite...although I really only have MP:Hunters to go on. The system's size is around what you'd get if you duct-taped 2 GBA Sps side-by-side. Kinda sucks to lose the pocketability of the Sp, but ah well. The sound quality is a huge boost from the GBA though, the screens are lit better and the touch screen looks really sturdy.

Based on Hunters, the graphical capacity of the DS is alright, although not mind-blowing. I guess the best I can compare it to is a PSX being played via a mobile moniter. It beats the tar out of the Ngage, but PSP really will deck the DS in this regard.

The demo of Hunters is lame and completely linear, although I'm going to assume(hope) it's nothing like what the final game will be like. What kinda makes me wonder about the DS are the wonkey controls. Aiming via the touch screen works really well, but the movement aspect doesn't. You look left/right by dragging your finger on the screen and press the top face button to go forward. Thing is, you can't drag your finger in a way to make you do an about-face, so turning all the way around is pretty slow. I see some serious, serious frustrations coming out of multiplayer because of that get behind your opponent and he's done before he can face you. Strafing uses the other face buttons, fire is the right shoulder and morphball is on the touch screen. A screen tap jumps, so you have to take care to keep your finger on the screen if you don't want to do a lot of accidental hopping. The morphball control via touchscreen is sweet, but overall you really get the feeling that the game should have had a more traditional control scheme, but wasn't given one because Nintendo wanted to show off the touch-screen.

Which is why I'm worried. This game, RidgeRacer and the like seem to be having touchscreeen controls forced on them to set DS apart, at the expense of their playability. I can understand and admire Nintendo's desire to do something new, but saddling the same old type of game with a unintuitive control scheme in the name of "innovation" isn't going to cut it. My advice for Nintendo is to take a cue from Sega's "feel the magic" and build games around the touchscreen. If the game doesn't need it, don't use it...that's why the D-pad is there. Make the touchscreen a menu or something. Please don't shoehorn games into using the thing...


For the meantime the system is back in the "wait and see" pile. Anyone else have thoughts on the system?

[theWacoKid]

I'm actually suprised that there are no DS kiosks being set up prior to launch anywhere. What gives? I read one preview on Ridge Racer that said the game was virtually unplayable having to use the touch screen to control a steering wheel on the bottom screen.

Future shop has an ad, they're selling the DS for $179can on nov. 21st for one day only. Some of the game pricing is disappointing. Nintendo's titles might be at $39.99can, but EA and other third parties want $49.99 can and that's too high in my book. The only interesting game for me is that Feel the Magic.

The release schedule for the DS looks really slow, where's all the software nintendo was promising. Looks like classic nintendo bs shipping development kits way late yet again. Do they think they can get away with this, with the psp breathing down their neck. I dont' think so. Nintendo will have to adapt or die. But with this attitude, it looks like we better start preparing our eulogies for the late great nintendo.

[Gadfly2317]

I'm actually suprised that there are no DS kiosks being set up prior to launch anywhere. What gives? I read one preview on Ridge Racer that said the game was virtually unplayable having to use the touch screen to control a steering wheel on the bottom screen.

Future shop has an ad, they're selling the DS for $179can on nov. 21st for one day only. Some of the game pricing is disappointing. Nintendo's titles might be at $39.99can, but EA and other third parties want $49.99 can and that's too high in my book. The only interesting game for me is that Feel the Magic.

The release schedule for the DS looks really slow, where's all the software nintendo was promising. Looks like classic nintendo bs shipping development kits way late yet again. Do they think they can get away with this, with the psp breathing down their neck. I dont' think so. Nintendo will have to adapt or die. But with this attitude, it looks like we better start preparing our eulogies for the late great nintendo.

I'm wondering if they didn't set up kiosks at stores nationwide because of availablity. A few thousand stores is a lot of machines, and apparently they've only manfactured 1/2 million so far, with over 1 1/2 preorders. Gamestop where I pre-ordered said they stopped taking pre-orders, and they have a promised amount of inventory to receive, and didn't oversell on preorders.

I'll believe it when I've got the system in hand.

I think you're being a little over grim in your assessment and a bit early in your eulogies.

Anyway, the only game I pre-ordered is Mario 64x4. Odd, since I'm not the biggest Mario fan, but I do like the way this has been revamped with multiple characters and over 30 minigames. The minigames sold me, not some overwhelming need to play Mario 64 again. . .it's a great game and all, but. . .

For me, a portable is a very minor supplement, and if there are 5 or 6 truly fun games that utilize the DS features, I'll be more than happy. Also, I never upgraded to an SP and I got sick of the GBA not being backlit, so I'll be using the DS to play more FF:Tactics Advance, and to finish Metroid Zero, and Advance Wars 2, and to play Zelda: Minish Cap. I think the launch and coming months are adequate. Launches for ANY system only ever have a handful of good games.

Feel the Magic looks cool, and I'm hoping they'll announce some of the Japanese games for a US release, like Mario Majhongg ( I know I keep saying I'm not a big Mario fan, but I mean Mario himself. Seems like all the Mario games are a blast. . .golf, tennis, kart.) Advance Wars for DS looks awesome, and I hope they do the control interface with the touchscreen. Any menu driven game will rule on the DS, which is why I see so much potential for RPG's and Tactics games being WAY better on DS than PsP. I see much potential for puzzle games as well, which are also great for portable gaming.

And finally Animal Crossing. That's it. That's the clincher that sold me. But over the next couple years as the line-up has time to grow and developers have time to play and get familiar with the system, I expect we'll see some truly creative and fun uses of the touch screen, voice recognition, but just on the games I mentioned alone, this system is what I want.

Upcoming, Warioware DS looks great, Sprung looks funny, I'd like to try out the interface EA has created for Tiger Woods DS (it sounds like a realy cool way to play videogame-golf.) Yoshi's Touch and Go might be cool, and I've seen a screen shot of a Nintendo developed game called "Another" that I hope makes it stateside just based on the screenshot alone. Nintendo doing Anime might be really interesting.

I don't have much to say negative about PsP right now. It looks sweet. For me though, the graphical difference isn't important. . . even the price isn't an issue. I feel absolely certain we'll see more truly original game designs on the DS, even if we only get a dozen or so truly great original games. I will not be buying more than 2 to 4 handheld games a year, no matter how many great games are released. It'll be nice if somewhere rents DS games. PsP will be great for playing traditional style games, but for me its just the same old interface and the same old type of games. I want my handheld gaming to be different from my console gaming, and I want my new handheld to be really differnt from my last one.

So hold your eulogy, keep an open mind.

[Glockstar]

Eb is putting up DS displays in preparation for the system's launch in a few days, so if anyone wants a taste of nextgen portables, you know where to go.

The system's size is around what you'd get if you duct-taped 2 GBA Sps side-by-side.

What kinda makes me wonder about the DS are the wonkey controls. Aiming via the touch screen works really well, but the movement aspect doesn't. You look left/right by dragging your finger on the screen and press the top face button to go forward. Thing is, you can't drag your finger in a way to make you do an about-face, so turning all the way around is pretty slow. ... Strafing uses the other face buttons, fire is the right shoulder and morphball is on the touch screen. A screen tap jumps, so you have to take care to keep your finger on the screen if you don't want to do a lot of accidental hopping. The morphball control via touchscreen is sweet, but overall you really get the feeling that the game should have had a more traditional control scheme, but wasn't given one because Nintendo wanted to show off the touch-screen.

Which is why I'm worried. This game, RidgeRacer and the like seem to be having touchscreeen controls forced on them to set DS apart, at the expense of their playability. I can understand and admire Nintendo's desire to do something new, but saddling the same old type of game with a unintuitive control scheme in the name of "innovation" isn't going to cut it. My advice for Nintendo is to take a cue from Sega's "feel the magic" and build games around the touchscreen. If the game doesn't need it, don't use it...that's why the D-pad is there. Make the touchscreen a menu or something. Please don't shoehorn games into using the thing...


Wow.

Thanks for the impressions (nice job), and for the heads up.

I've expressed serious doubts about how the system would handle and about how the games would be controlled, but this is something that I didn't think of: that the whole dual-screen thing would be forced, and that games would be designed so poorly.

Though I've pretty much made up mind already (that I am not going to be gettin the DS) I still have some questions. If you don't mind...

1) The GBA wasn't shaped/contoured all that great, but it felt like silk when compared to the SP; how are the "ergonomics" of the DS?

2) Did they let you use the thumb-thingie or the stylus? If so, a) how'd that thumb-thingie fit, and b) do you think the stylus improved your control or was it simply better without it?

-

I'm actually suprised that there are no DS kiosks being set up prior to launch anywhere. What gives? I read one preview on Ridge Racer that said the game was virtually unplayable having to use the touch screen to control a steering wheel on the bottom screen.

I'm surprised too.
I've been in and out of a lot vg stores lately, and I keep looking for the DS display. I can't believe that they are not in yet.

And I really can't believe that Nintendo would (basically) skip over this marketing tactic/tool. I thought they'd at least have dummies out that you could fondle - like they did with the SP.

[theWacoKid]

The problem is, Gaddy, is that nintendo seems to be pulling the same stunts as before. The release schedule is very slow for the DS and that's not good for a new system. After the 10 to 12 title launch, you're looking at what? Where is all the software? Where are all the developers nintendo said were crazy about developing for the system? Was that all smoke and mirrors? Did nintendo stiff these guys with development kits to give their own software an edge, as per usual with nintendo launches?

Nintendo seems to very desparate this holiday season. They're getting very close to actually giving away a gc with their bundles. The new mario kart bundle is on sale here, at about $130 can. When you consider that you get Mario Kart DD and two controllers, you're paying next to nothing for the actual system itself. While that might be a good deal for consumers, I hope we've finally heard the end of "we won't sell our hardware at a loss bs" because if they're clinging to that, they've got some very creative accountants.

Nintendo cannot play around any longer. They're being squeezed and squeezed hard. They desparately need third party support and to restore confidence in the average gamer's minds. I'd say a good many people have written nintendo off and ninty will have to work double hard to get these guys back. That 8 to 14 year old market just isn't a big enough piece of the pie to carry them through indefinitely. 8 year olds grow up a lot quicker these days and a lot ot the 11-12 year olds out there are playing the GTA games instead of Mario.

I saw a bit of Mario Tennis at EB today, cute game, but seriously, all those wacky special shots just destroy the flow of the game. Nintendo needs some new schtick badly. Nintendo is like a company that tried to branch out to mature gamers with RE and Eternal Darkness, wasn't satisfied with the results, so they went back to the old tried and true policy of catering solely to the core fanbase. They don't seem to be interested in being a videogame company anymore, they want to be fisher price with some cool toy like gizmo. The DS as a system seems designed entirely to support the notion that a touch screen somehow is a revolutionary concept. You need two screens with the primary play screen on top, because do you realize how gross that bottom screen is going to be after a few months of play. Kids picking their noses and then using the touch screen, ehwww!

[shogun]

Though I've pretty much made up mind already (that I am not going to be gettin the DS) I still have some questions. If you don't mind...

1) The GBA wasn't shaped/contoured all that great, but it felt like silk when compared to the SP; how are the "ergonomics" of the DS?

2) Did they let you use the thumb-thingie or the stylus? If so, a) how'd that thumb-thingie fit, and b) do you think the stylus improved your control or was it simply better without it?


1) Difficult to say, given the way the things are attached to the kiosk. I can't really get a feel for the weight or anything. Ergonomically, it's similar to the Sp, although a hell of a lot less cramped. The touchscreen can be a little annoying to use if you have to keep your finger on it all the time...mostly because you're reaching with your thumb across the D-pad and onto the center of the touchscreen. This is assuming you're trying to hold the system with two hands instead of one.

2) The stylus was there, although it's pretty worthless for Hunters. You have to hold the system with one hand to use it, which could get tiring after a while. That and playing with it feels like trying to write on a piece of paper you're holding in midair. Unless you plan on playing the DS lying flat-on a table I'd rule the stylus out for all but the most leisurely-paced games. To the system's credit, the touchscreen proved accurate enough just using my thumb.I imagine the thumb perepherial would improve accuracy even further, although I fail to see how it would resolve the movement issues.

[Glockstar]

Ah yes, they would be bolted down, wouldn't they.

Anyways... thanks!
(Again, nice write up.)

[AOE Enforcer]

Eb is putting up DS displays in preparation for the system's launch in a few days, so if anyone wants a taste of nextgen portables, you know where to go.

I gotta say after playing it, I'm not so sure I want to bite...although I really only have MP:Hunters to go on. The system's size is around what you'd get if you duct-taped 2 GBA Sps side-by-side. Kinda sucks to lose the pocketability of the Sp, but ah well. The sound quality is a huge boost from the GBA though, the screens are lit better and the touch screen looks really sturdy.

Based on Hunters, the graphical capacity of the DS is alright, although not mind-blowing. I guess the best I can compare it to is a PSX being played via a mobile moniter. It beats the tar out of the Ngage, but PSP really will deck the DS in this regard.

The demo of Hunters is lame and completely linear, although I'm going to assume(hope) it's nothing like what the final game will be like. What kinda makes me wonder about the DS are the wonkey controls. Aiming via the touch screen works really well, but the movement aspect doesn't. You look left/right by dragging your finger on the screen and press the top face button to go forward. Thing is, you can't drag your finger in a way to make you do an about-face, so turning all the way around is pretty slow. I see some serious, serious frustrations coming out of multiplayer because of that get behind your opponent and he's done before he can face you. Strafing uses the other face buttons, fire is the right shoulder and morphball is on the touch screen. A screen tap jumps, so you have to take care to keep your finger on the screen if you don't want to do a lot of accidental hopping. The morphball control via touchscreen is sweet, but overall you really get the feeling that the game should have had a more traditional control scheme, but wasn't given one because Nintendo wanted to show off the touch-screen.

Which is why I'm worried. This game, RidgeRacer and the like seem to be having touchscreeen controls forced on them to set DS apart, at the expense of their playability. I can understand and admire Nintendo's desire to do something new, but saddling the same old type of game with a unintuitive control scheme in the name of "innovation" isn't going to cut it. My advice for Nintendo is to take a cue from Sega's "feel the magic" and build games around the touchscreen. If the game doesn't need it, don't use it...that's why the D-pad is there. Make the touchscreen a menu or something. Please don't shoehorn games into using the thing...


For the meantime the system is back in the "wait and see" pile. Anyone else have thoughts on the system?

I actually got my hands on one at the Best Buy in South St. Louis County MO. My feelings on the system have actually degraded after using it. The opening "cinemas" for Metroid Prime Hunters were decent, but the actual in-game screens were just as you say-PSOne graphics on a mini LCD-monitor. Played the PSOne/LCD combo? Those are the graphics you are going to get here.

The system feels horrible to hold in your hands. I found the D-pad gets slick with persperation rather quickly and didn't seem to have any type of rough surface to keep your thumb in place. The shoulder buttons are too small and when you have the system opened, I couldn't get a good solid finger-plant on them. The stylus is useless for Metroid and I assume a great many more games. I quickly ditched it to use my thumb which-even though it worked better-was completely cumbersome and unintuitive.

The touchscreen feels like a complete gimmick to me. Coupled with the high price for the system and $40-$50 for a portable cartridge game....you can most definitely count me out. If I WAS going to invest in a new portable, I would go the PSP route. It's not that much more money, the games will most likely cost $40 at most and it has analog control. Not to mention, games like Ridge Racer show off impressive graphical feats that the DS can't pull off.

Asthetics-wise, the system is just butt-ass ugly. It looks like it's cheap and wold break rather easily. Bah...count me out on this one. Another blunder on Nintendo's part. They should just hang it up and go with either Sony or Microsoft (or both) and stick to making games to supplement the library of games that are overall vastly superior on the PS2 and Xbox.

[Gadfly2317]

Nintendo seems to very desparate this holiday season. They're getting very close to actually giving away a gc with their bundles. The new mario kart bundle is on sale here, at about $130 can. When you consider that you get Mario Kart DD and two controllers, you're paying next to nothing for the actual system itself. While that might be a good deal for consumers, I hope we've finally heard the end of "we won't sell our hardware at a loss bs" because if they're clinging to that, they've got some very creative accountants

Nintendo is performing poorly lately, true. But I love your creative accounting above. You are adding the full price of Mario Kart DD + controllers to say they are giving the system away for free. Mario Kart has recouped its profits, so all it costs them to stick the game in the box is whatever the cost of the piece of plastic disk the game is printed on cost.

The problem is, Gaddy, is that nintendo seems to be pulling the same stunts as before. The release schedule is very slow for the DS and that's not good for a new system. After the 10 to 12 title launch, you're looking at what? Where is all the software? Where are all the developers nintendo said were crazy about developing for the system? Was that all smoke and mirrors? Did nintendo stiff these guys with development kits to give their own software an edge, as per usual with nintendo launches?


Give it a rest man. There are over a hundred announced titles in development. The latest I read had the PsP launching with 8 titles. Aside from however many 3rd party games make it out, there are 20 first party titles that will be out in the systems first twelve months, not counting the GBA titles it will play, like Zelda: Minish Cap. Jesus, how many games can you squeeze into your lunch hour or subway commute?

Other complaints strike me as more valid, like complaining that the stylus control for Metroid is ackward (it has 4 other control setups, including control w/o stylus.) I tend to agree with the criticism that the touchscreen may be problematic for fast-action games, that its better suited for leisurely paced games (my preference for portable games), or games like Wario Ware.

I admit, I would not have picked it up if it weren't backward compatible with the GBA. . .I basically want a backlit system that fits my hands better than the SP. The PsP graphics advantage isn't an issue for me. . . home consoles are my hi-tech graphics fest. You can gripe about nintendo all you want, or accurately point out the companies decline in marketshare, but I've never yet been dissapointed with a nintendo product. If the whole system is nothing more than a gimmick, and Nintendo, Sega, Capcom, and other companies don't find a way to use this system and its unique features to give us some seriously different, and fun games, I will be both shocked and pissed.

I'm a fan, but no fanboy. If there's nothing really cool, unique or fun that shows up on this system, I'll be complaining loudly. Be honest, do you think this system and its design is a total gimmick? Do you not think touch screen interface will not do some great things for RPG's and strategy tactics games that are menu heavy? Do you not think companies will be inspired creativily with the two screens, different interface, voice recognition?

[theWacoKid]

Nintendo is performing poorly lately, true. But I love your creative accounting above. You are adding the full price of Mario Kart DD + controllers to say they are giving the system away for free. Mario Kart has recouped its profits, so all it costs them to stick the game in the box is whatever the cost of the piece of plastic disk the game is printed on cost.



Give it a rest man. There are over a hundred announced titles in development. The latest I read had the PsP launching with 8 titles. Aside from however many 3rd party games make it out, there are 20 first party titles that will be out in the systems first twelve months, not counting the GBA titles it will play, like Zelda: Minish Cap. Jesus, how many games can you squeeze into your lunch hour or subway commute?

Other complaints strike me as more valid, like complaining that the stylus control for Metroid is ackward (it has 4 other control setups, including control w/o stylus.) I tend to agree with the criticism that the touchscreen may be problematic for fast-action games, that its better suited for leisurely paced games (my preference for portable games), or games like Wario Ware.

I admit, I would not have picked it up if it weren't backward compatible with the GBA. . .I basically want a backlit system that fits my hands better than the SP. The PsP graphics advantage isn't an issue for me. . . home consoles are my hi-tech graphics fest. You can gripe about nintendo all you want, or accurately point out the companies decline in marketshare, but I've never yet been dissapointed with a nintendo product. If the whole system is nothing more than a gimmick, and Nintendo, Sega, Capcom, and other companies don't find a way to use this system and its unique features to give us some seriously different, and fun games, I will be both shocked and pissed.

I'm a fan, but no fanboy. If there's nothing really cool, unique or fun that shows up on this system, I'll be complaining loudly. Be honest, do you think this system and its design is a total gimmick? Do you not think touch screen interface will not do some great things for RPG's and strategy tactics games that are menu heavy? Do you not think companies will be inspired creativily with the two screens, different interface, voice recognition?

Any way you cut it, a pack in title means you're foregoing the potential sale of that title, so telling me that all they're losing is the cost of the packaging is pretty lame. After all, mario kart, according to guys like you, is a AAA title. If that's the case, hell, throw in a bunch of titles since it's costing them next to nothing. The big dif between what Nintendo's doing and M$ is that M$ wants another $50 for the pack in of Fable/Crimson skies over a plain vanilla bundle, so M$ isn't losing a whole lot on this. With nintnedo, the mario kart bundle is basically the same cost as a standalone gc or maybe $10 higher.

Don't give me this spiel about how many games are in development, check how slow the release schedule is and a lot of the nintendo stuff looks like kiddy filler. Puppy times? The lineup is very weak. A lot of rushed to market titles not worth $10 from the sound of it. Even the review of Feel the Magic states the following.

"This is also a case of a system launch rush-job -- Feel The Magic doesn't fall apart technically like some first-gen games, but it probably could have been a lot more with extra time."

About the only title that will be polished is Super Mario DS. Nintendo is rushing out the hardware before the software's ready for one reason and one reason only, to beat the psp to market. Considering how invincible Nintendo keeps telling everybody they are in the handheld sector, you have to ask why? Because they're afraid, very afraid this time out, of the competition. You deride the psp, but how much sense would it have made for sony to create an oddball handheld gaming system with a potentially limited appeal that basically forced game developers to use a double screen continuoulsy and touch screen features into their game design. How about, not very. Sony did what they set out to do, and that's to create the most powerful handheld out there with the largest, brightest screen and bring it out at a cost that didn't make your nose bleed.

And I'll tell you one thing, a few great little rpgs with some great cinema cut scenes, and the japanese market will dump the DS in a heartbeat for the psp. The problem with DS game design is a catch 22. For people to accept the game as a DS original, it will have to make creative use of the dual screen, and creative use of the touch screen, voice recognition, wireless capabilitly, etc. The problem is, very few of the games hitting the DS can even remotely do this, as they're trying to shoehorn their game to fit. Classic example would be Ridge Racer DS. Let's piss off gamers by making it an absolute headache to steer the car. Nothing will piss off gamers more than a game with crap control. The alternative, make it a straightforward handheld game and people will say, it's boring, I can get that anywhere or worse, why'd they bother since ridge racer on the psp is miles better. Nintendo has themselves a problem, even if they don't think they have one at the moment. After the initial euphoria, we'll see what happens when reality hits home, and people are disappointed with rushed to launch software and keep going back and asking where's all the software they said was coming. Oh, yeah, it's coming. And the check's in the mail.

[AOE Enforcer]

Any way you cut it, a pack in title means you're foregoing the potential sale of that title, so telling me that all they're losing is the cost of the packaging is pretty lame. After all, mario kart, according to guys like you, is a AAA title. If that's the case, hell, throw in a bunch of titles since it's costing them next to nothing. The big dif between what Nintendo's doing and M$ is that M$ wants another $50 for the pack in of Fable/Crimson skies over a plain vanilla bundle, so M$ isn't losing a whole lot on this. With nintnedo, the mario kart bundle is basically the same cost as a standalone gc or maybe $10 higher.

Don't give me this spiel about how many games are in development, check how slow the release schedule is and a lot of the nintendo stuff looks like kiddy filler. Puppy times? The lineup is very weak. A lot of rushed to market titles not worth $10 from the sound of it. Even the review of Feel the Magic states the following.

"This is also a case of a system launch rush-job -- Feel The Magic doesn't fall apart technically like some first-gen games, but it probably could have been a lot more with extra time."

About the only title that will be polished is Super Mario DS. Nintendo is rushing out the hardware before the software's ready for one reason and one reason only, to beat the psp to market. Considering how invincible Nintendo keeps telling everybody they are in the handheld sector, you have to ask why? Because they're afraid, very afraid this time out, of the competition. You deride the psp, but how much sense would it have made for sony to create an oddball handheld gaming system with a potentially limited appeal that basically forced game developers to use a double screen continuoulsy and touch screen features into their game design. How about, not very. Sony did what they set out to do, and that's to create the most powerful handheld out there with the largest, brightest screen and bring it out at a cost that didn't make your nose bleed.

And I'll tell you one thing, a few great little rpgs with some great cinema cut scenes, and the japanese market will dump the DS in a heartbeat for the psp. The problem with DS game design is a catch 22. For people to accept the game as a DS original, it will have to make creative use of the dual screen, and creative use of the touch screen, voice recognition, wireless capabilitly, etc. The problem is, very few of the games hitting the DS can even remotely do this, as they're trying to shoehorn their game to fit. Classic example would be Ridge Racer DS. Let's piss off gamers by making it an absolute headache to steer the car. Nothing will piss off gamers more than a game with crap control. The alternative, make it a straightforward handheld game and people will say, it's boring, I can get that anywhere or worse, why'd they bother since ridge racer on the psp is miles better. Nintendo has themselves a problem, even if they don't think they have one at the moment. After the initial euphoria, we'll see what happens when reality hits home, and people are disappointed with rushed to launch software and keep going back and asking where's all the software they said was coming. Oh, yeah, it's coming. And the check's in the mail.

The DS is a B-I-G mistake on Nintendo's part. They are pretty much forcing developers into shoe-horning touch-screen antics in with their titles. The best example thus far is Ridge Racer. Not only does the controls suck on the DS, the game looks like absolute ass compared to the PSP version.

Nintendo has once again decided to go the route of expensive little cartridges that they control the manufacturing and thus the pricing of. The problem is that when the PSP arrives later this year, it has so much space on it's discs that it can run FMV out the wazoo as well as CD-quality sound and actual voice-overs instead of "Blub-dub-bub." As Waco pointed out, a few decent RPG's with some FMV in them and the DS is finished in Japan. Rather than build a new Mario game from the ground up, Nintendo took the easy way out and once again ported a classic over. Not a bad idea to allow gamers the chance to play this game, but when it comes at the expense of some original titles, that hurts.

Sony's already got Square-Enix onboard to release RPG's both classic and new for the PSP. What do you think is going to happen when a FMV-less, CD-Quality-less Golden Sun-esque title is released on the DS against say....Final Fantasy VII on the PSP with more polished graphics than the original? Or a Dragon Quest title? I can tell you what will happen: Nintendo will cringe.

Nintendo has nobody but themselves to blame for their downfall. And yes-the DS will signal the end of their handheld dominance just as the N64 signaled the end of their console dominance. Nintendo refuses to adapt to the times. They think that in a market with the PSP and it's near-PS2 quality graphics, the DS with it's shoddy N64 graphics and lame-ass touchscreen are going to compete. They are dead wrong. Especially at only $50 difference in price. And just like the Gamecube, the DS comes off as a toy whereas the PSP looks more like a high-tech PDA or some similar device.

What is Nintendo going to do when their handheld dynasty comes crashing down just as their console dynasty did? Will they get out of the game making business as crotchety-old Yamauchi screams? Or will they suck it up and actually start putting games out on a Sony or Microsoft system ala Sega? That is the question.

[shogun]

The DS is a B-I-G mistake on Nintendo's part. They are pretty much forcing developers into shoe-horning touch-screen antics in with their titles.

This statement might be premature, especially if Gaddy's right about 'Hunters' having an option for a traditional control scheme. It IS something to worry about, but given the lack of games with which to evaluate, I'm not so sure we can build a trend out of this quite yet. The touchscreen DOES have some amazing potential, and given the DS's conventional weaknesses when compared to PSP, it's going to need to exploit the hell out of the thing to compete.

Nintendo has once again decided to go the route of expensive little cartridges that they control the manufacturing and thus the pricing of.

The game prices bother me. $40 is a bit much for a portable game, unless they are going to be a significant departure from GBA titles and actually have some depth. Otherwise I'd save my $ and buy console games. I wonder if the $30-$40 price range will ever get nailed down to a single MSRP. Oh, remember that PSP games are built using discs inside plastic cases, so the production costs are likely higher than your standard CD/DVD. PSP games are listed at $50 a pop now, although obviously that may change.

The problem is that when the PSP arrives later this year, it has so much space on it's discs that it can run FMV out the wazoo as well as CD-quality sound and actual voice-overs instead of "Blub-dub-bub."

But that also contributes to its terrible battery life. It's been said before that raw power is only one factor into what makes a portable great, and too much of it can ruin one by killing price and portability. If the market turned on portables being graphical monsters, Nintendo would have been buried years ago. I'm skeptical of the DS doing well, but I'm also aware that Nintendo really doesn't have the option to make something conventional like the PSP. A battle decided on nothing more than software support, would crush them.

[Pandarbock]

I'm actually suprised that there are no DS kiosks being set up prior to launch anywhere. What gives? I read one preview on Ridge Racer that said the game was virtually unplayable having to use the touch screen to control a steering wheel on the bottom screen.

Future shop has an ad, they're selling the DS for $179can on nov. 21st for one day only. Some of the game pricing is disappointing. Nintendo's titles might be at $39.99can, but EA and other third parties want $49.99 can and that's too high in my book. The only interesting game for me is that Feel the Magic.

The release schedule for the DS looks really slow, where's all the software nintendo was promising. Looks like classic nintendo bs shipping development kits way late yet again. Do they think they can get away with this, with the psp breathing down their neck. I dont' think so. Nintendo will have to adapt or die. But with this attitude, it looks like we better start preparing our eulogies for the late great nintendo.

Wow waco reminds me of another systems craptacular launch line up followed by about a year of slow craptacular releases, hmmm wonder which one I am thinking about, oh yeah PS2. Really in my life time not one system launch has been phenomenal as only the hardcore of people buy the systems right away companies tend to not blow their whole wad at the start. So for you to once again make claims that nintendo is going to be beat out and that the PSP is going just trounce it seems once again based on your short sighted sony vision googles.

[theWacoKid]

Wow waco reminds me of another systems craptacular launch line up followed by about a year of slow craptacular releases, hmmm wonder which one I am thinking about, oh yeah PS2. Really in my life time not one system launch has been phenomenal as only the hardcore of people buy the systems right away companies tend to not blow their whole wad at the start. So for you to once again make claims that nintendo is going to be beat out and that the PSP is going just trounce it seems once again based on your short sighted sony vision googles.

Unlike you and your nintendo vision, where nintendo does no wrong. The ps2 launch had 25+ games and I found plenty to like. Madden, SSX, and TTT. Solid titles through and through and well worth the money I spent at the time.

Okay, let's see what the DS has in comparison. From what I see, Super Mario DS and Feel the Magic and that's about it, sports fans. Because Madden DS looks like crap and the touch screen thinging with the x's and o's is useless.

I don't think I've said anywhere, mario boy, that the psp is going to trounce the DS. I've stated that I think the psp can capture 25 to 30% of the handheld market in 2 years. May not sound like much, that's a huge blow for nintendo because they're used to controlling 99% of the handheld market. This is just the beginning and nothing will be decided in the first year. Even if sony has lied about the initial battery life, a couple of years down the road, advancements will made in battery technology and in battery management software and whatever complaints were made initiallly will be a moot point. In the meantime, software development will continue and nintendo will increasingly be feeling the pressure of competing with substantially more powerful hardware and attempting to match the feature sets of umd based psp games on the increasingly restrictive cartridges.

[Gadfly2317]

Nintendo has once again decided to go the route of expensive little cartridges that they control the manufacturing and thus the pricing of. The problem is that when the PSP arrives later this year, it has so much space on it's discs that it can run FMV out the wazoo as well as CD-quality sound and actual voice-overs instead of "Blub-dub-bub." As Waco pointed out, a few decent RPG's with some FMV in them and the DS is finished in Japan. Rather than build a new Mario game from the ground up, Nintendo took the easy way out and once again ported a classic over. Not a bad idea to allow gamers the chance to play this game, but when it comes at the expense of some original titles, that hurts.

Sony's already got Square-Enix onboard to release RPG's both classic and new for the PSP. What do you think is going to happen when a FMV-less, CD-Quality-less Golden Sun-esque title is released on the DS against say....Final Fantasy VII on the PSP with more polished graphics than the original? Or a Dragon Quest title? I can tell you what will happen: Nintendo will cringe.

Nintendo has nobody but themselves to blame for their downfall. And yes-the DS will signal the end of their handheld dominance just as the N64 signaled the end of their console dominance. Nintendo refuses to adapt to the times. They think that in a market with the PSP and it's near-PS2 quality graphics, the DS with it's shoddy N64 graphics and lame-ass touchscreen are going to compete. They are dead wrong. Especially at only $50 difference in price. And just like the Gamecube, the DS comes off as a toy whereas the PSP looks more like a high-tech PDA or some similar device.


Maybe you are right, especially from a business point of view. If the sony is welling to sell the PsP for the $189 or $199 they are claiming, it's going to do well. No doubt that traditional games on a nice looking screen will do well. . . voice-acting and all.

I guess I should realize my enthusiasm over the DS should mean its doomed to failure. Almost nothing I really like is ever popular, and its not because I'm trying to go out of my way to reject popular things. I just get into what ever does it for me. Most of my favorite independently owned restaurants eventually go out of business. My favorite bands sell like crap compared to popular massive sellers who make my ears vomit out great, oozing chunks of wax. Same with movies. So there's no reason for me to hope that Nintendo isn't committing hara kiri with the DS.

The PsP doesn't inspire me. . . and really, 3d graphics on a handheld are not something I'm excited about, on either system. Camera problems are going to suck, especially without a second analog stick for the camera. That's why I have little interest in 3d action games. I'm giving Mario 64x4 a chance because the touch pad controls the camera, and the 30 mini games should make be pretty cool.

I can't really dog the PsP. . .not if they deliver great battery life, but if the disk becomes a read-error problem, or means less battery life, for on the go gaming, it's not a good thing.

I guess we'll see. The DS totally inspires me to want a handheld. I've had a GB and a GBA, but always played them infrequently, and never bought a lot of titles. PsP and DS would both be the same for me. I expect I'll own 6 or 7 titles tops over the course the system's life. So for me, its which very few games do I need most? And Advance Wars is the BEST single portable game experience ever, and its perfectly suited to DS. That game alone, with full functioning map editors, and over 100 missions, and its like Chess, classic, real strategy and real gameplay don't get old. A handful of truly replayable games, and on the DS I know there will be at least a couple revolutionary groundbreaking titles, that's why I'm getting one.

If it fails, as long as I get my six great titles and the backward compatibility with the GBA libary (there's another 4 or 5 of those titles I'd like to play) it'll have been what I expected and wanted.

I have no interest in it playing Mp3's, buying memory cards, buying movies I already own on little disks. PsP looks to me to be duplicating the console game experience, at least from the line-up. Handheld needs to be different, you are on the go, the screen is smaller, the time you spend playing is different. Like Warioware. . .perfect, addictive, pick-up-and play on-the-go gaming.

Anyway, I respect everyone's opinion on this one. I'm totally stoked about the DS, but I have no problem seeing why people will be stoked about the PsP. It looks cool. It has great graphics, and it will be able to play games that are more like what you are used to on your console. There are probably people who will even watch movies on it, though I can't for the life of me figure out why you would spend all that money replacing your DvD's with little DvDs when you could just buy a portable DvD player that plays regular DvDs.

Maybe nintendo is doomed, the DS is its demise. Whatever, though. I enjoy what they create, I'll enjoy the DS, even if its the last thing Nintendo ever makes. And if it sucks, I can always buy a PsP, or go back to doing what I usually do on my lunch hour and on down time while traveling: read a book.

[Pandarbock]

Unlike you and your nintendo vision, where nintendo does no wrong. The ps2 launch had 25+ games and I found plenty to like. Madden, SSX, and TTT. Solid titles through and through and well worth the money I spent at the time.

Okay, let's see what the DS has in comparison. From what I see, Super Mario DS and Feel the Magic and that's about it, sports fans. Because Madden DS looks like crap and the touch screen thinging with the x's and o's is useless.

I don't think I've said anywhere, mario boy, that the psp is going to trounce the DS. I've stated that I think the psp can capture 25 to 30% of the handheld market in 2 years. May not sound like much, that's a huge blow for nintendo because they're used to controlling 99% of the handheld market. This is just the beginning and nothing will be decided in the first year. Even if sony has lied about the initial battery life, a couple of years down the road, advancements will made in battery technology and in battery management software and whatever complaints were made initiallly will be a moot point. In the meantime, software development will continue and nintendo will increasingly be feeling the pressure of competing with substantially more powerful hardware and attempting to match the feature sets of umd based psp games on the increasingly restrictive cartridges.

I will concede to the 25 ps2 launch titles as i am not going to verify with gamefaqs the release dates of all 25 of the games listed on ign's old ps2 faq as to where I am sure you grabbed the 25 number from. So in your book 3 is plenty, I wouldn't exactly call 3 plenty. Waco you are without a doubt the biggest fanboy on these boards. I honestly think if sony crapped in a box and sent it too you you would think that it was the best day of your life. You do not listen to anyones logic but your own convoluted sony delusions. In your mind sony can do absolutely no wrong.

You say " Do they think they can get away with this, with the psp breathing down their neck. I dont' think so. Nintendo will have to adapt or die. But with this attitude, it looks like we better start preparing our eulogies for the late great nintendo. ". So how would this be true if the PSP didn't trounce the DS?

You herald the PSP as being such a great device (and I do not think you can ever quote me as saying the DS is so phenomenal). You put down the unique features of the DS just because 3rd parties have yet to utilize it to its full potential as you stated "The problem is, very few of the games hitting the DS can even remotely do this, as they're trying to shoehorn their game to fit" (which we all must take your word for as you are probably the only person to have played them all). Yet some how not having great battery life for a system is not a bad thing as maybe "a couple of years down the road, advancements will made in battery technology and in battery management software and whatever complaints were made initiallly will be a moot point.". Which of course is just you making excuses for such a unexcusable flaw. It is excusable only because your god Ken K. said that even the original walkman had crappy battery life.

I do not think that the DS will necesarily at all continue nintendo's haldheld dominance nor do I think the PSP is at all to be writen off as not a worthy competitor. From the information I have been presented with about both, my opinion is that both systems are very promising, both with their own set of flaws. But I can tell you one thing, that after buying my Pocket pc that is lucky to get 2 hours when gaming on it even without moving parts (sound down all the way brightness down to lowest), that too me battery life is way more important and is the reason my pocketpc has remained untouched for about 1.5 years now.

[theWacoKid]

I'm going to state one other thing that gets glossed over when it comes to the DS and that's the lack of analog control. A touch screen is not going to replace analog control and a d-pad is digital, so how is a game like Super Mario DS is supposed to play without proper analog control. Well, we've got some problems there and they'll be there not only for Super Mario DS but any game requiring precise analog control.

From Gamespot.

"The original Mario 64 relied heavily on the N64's analog joystick, so Mario 64 DS gives you a few different control options that attempt to emulate the control in different ways. By default, the game is configured to let you play without using the system's touch screen. The D pad is used for movement, and the buttons are used for jumping, ducking, attacking, and running. While you can also use the touch screen for running, the other two control modes are somewhat better suited for use with the touch screen, letting you shuffle the buttons around a bit to give you more control over your character. Although the three options do a decent job of letting you control your character, none of them are quite as refined as the analog joystick that was used to control Mario back in the original game. The D pad's digital nature makes moving with it rather imprecise. It attempts to make up for the lack of refinement by being a little more momentum-based, but you'll still find yourself running off of ledges more often than you'd like. Using the touch screen really isn't much better. You'll have full analog control over your movement, but changing directions isn't as fluid as it should be. The control issues aren't insurmountable, but it's a bummer that the game doesn't control as well as the original. Super Mario 64 is a game that requires a lot of precision movements, and it's unfortunate that none of the available control options are quite up to the task."

This isn't a minor issue imo, but a regretable decision by a very stubborn company that wishes to impose its will on gamers and tell them, this is what you're getting because we know better. Sony is uninspired, boring, dull, yeah, well so be it, at least sony is aware that analog control is required of modern games and if the analog nub isn't all that it should be, at least they're pointed in the right direction.

[theWacoKid]

I will concede to the 25 ps2 launch titles as i am not going to verify with gamefaqs the release dates of all 25 of the games listed on ign's old ps2 faq as to where I am sure you grabbed the 25 number from. So in your book 3 is plenty, I wouldn't exactly call 3 plenty. Waco you are without a doubt the biggest fanboy on these boards. I honestly think if sony crapped in a box and sent it too you you would think that it was the best day of your life. You do not listen to anyones logic but your own convoluted sony delusions. In your mind sony can do absolutely no wrong.

You say " Do they think they can get away with this, with the psp breathing down their neck. I dont' think so. Nintendo will have to adapt or die. But with this attitude, it looks like we better start preparing our eulogies for the late great nintendo. ". So how would this be true if the PSP didn't trounce the DS?

You herald the PSP as being such a great device (and I do not think you can ever quote me as saying the DS is so phenomenal). You put down the unique features of the DS just because 3rd parties have yet to utilize it to its full potential as you stated "The problem is, very few of the games hitting the DS can even remotely do this, as they're trying to shoehorn their game to fit" (which we all must take your word for as you are probably the only person to have played them all). Yet some how not having great battery life for a system is not a bad thing as maybe "a couple of years down the road, advancements will made in battery technology and in battery management software and whatever complaints were made initiallly will be a moot point.". Which of course is just you making excuses for such a unexcusable flaw. It is excusable only because your god Ken K. said that even the original walkman had crappy battery life.

I do not think that the DS will necesarily at all continue nintendo's haldheld dominance nor do I think the PSP is at all to be writen off as not a worthy competitor. From the information I have been presented with about both, my opinion is that both systems are very promising, both with their own set of flaws. But I can tell you one thing, that after buying my Pocket pc that is lucky to get 2 hours when gaming on it even without moving parts (sound down all the way brightness down to lowest), that too me battery life is way more important and is the reason my pocketpc has remained untouched for about 1.5 years now.

You know, you dont' have to be a genius to show up on launch day and see how many titles are out on display, so spanky, I didn't have to go gamefaq for the 25 game figure. The day you use logic in anything you post pandaboy, let me know so the whole board can celebrate. The problem with you is you been sucking on nintendo's teat for so long, you're used to the taste of sour milk.

Nintendo is generating most if not all of their profits off the handheld segment. They've been able to call the shots in the handheld arena and determine pricing without competition. That's all going to change. Nintendo's share of the market will not only be smaller but their profit margins will be slimmer as well on what they do sell. Nintendo has been forced by the market to cut prices on their revered franchises like Zelda WW and not charge some bs premium pricing like $30 instead of $20. The kind of bs nintendo has gotten away with in the past has caught up with them. It always does in the end.

If you've read any of the posts I've made on the psp, I haven't come anywhere close to endorsing the psp. Sony is doing the only thing they could do, imo. I wasn't interested in the psp at $300us. Now, I'll take a look, but unless they bring out a few key titles, enough to justify a purchase, I'll stay on the sidelines. The minumum number of purchase worthy games for me to buy a system is three. The days of buying a system like the n64 for a single game are long gone. That's why I didn't buy an xbox at launch. It didn't have three games I was willing to buy. And I stayed away from the cube much later than that, like over a year.

I have all three systems, so you calling me a fanboy is just so much rubbish. LIke my experience is different from other multi-console gamers. About 90% would tell you their gc gets the least playtime. After that, you've got people split on what they play the most, xbox or ps2. So, please, enough of this fanboy nonsense. What I'm expressing is neither unusual for multi-console gamers nor unexpected. The gc has the smallest lineup, nintendo has lost considerable software support from 2nd and third parties. Them's the facts, spanky. Debate those. Gamers like Gadfly fit into that 10% category, they're there, but they're a distinct minority.

If you all you have to grouse about is the battery life, that's weaksauce. It's not like you're spending money on purchasing a set of AA's or anything. If it falls below fours hours on a consistent basis, it will impact sales somewhat, but it won't kill the psp. Sony along with third parties will have to accomodate and down the road, battery life will be lengthened. I don't expect it to ever much the DS, but then again, how will the DS ever match the capacity of UMD and how will it ever match the power of the psp or the size and clarity of the psp screen. There's tradeoffs all the way along, battery life is just one issue among a long list. I know plenty of laptop owners who get along quite well with battery life that's less than the psp. When I'm at home, why would I even bother using the battery when I can hook it up to the ac adapter. But, I can't play it through an entire flight say the nintendo brownies, and how many flights do you take per year, anyway.

[AOE Enforcer]

Maybe you are right, especially from a business point of view. If the sony is welling to sell the PsP for the $189 or $199 they are claiming, it's going to do well. No doubt that traditional games on a nice looking screen will do well. . . voice-acting and all.

I guess I should realize my enthusiasm over the DS should mean its doomed to failure. Almost nothing I really like is ever popular, and its not because I'm trying to go out of my way to reject popular things. I just get into what ever does it for me. Most of my favorite independently owned restaurants eventually go out of business. My favorite bands sell like crap compared to popular massive sellers who make my ears vomit out great, oozing chunks of wax. Same with movies. So there's no reason for me to hope that Nintendo isn't committing hara kiri with the DS.

The PsP doesn't inspire me. . . and really, 3d graphics on a handheld are not something I'm excited about, on either system. Camera problems are going to suck, especially without a second analog stick for the camera. That's why I have little interest in 3d action games. I'm giving Mario 64x4 a chance because the touch pad controls the camera, and the 30 mini games should make be pretty cool.

I can't really dog the PsP. . .not if they deliver great battery life, but if the disk becomes a read-error problem, or means less battery life, for on the go gaming, it's not a good thing.

I guess we'll see. The DS totally inspires me to want a handheld. I've had a GB and a GBA, but always played them infrequently, and never bought a lot of titles. PsP and DS would both be the same for me. I expect I'll own 6 or 7 titles tops over the course the system's life. So for me, its which very few games do I need most? And Advance Wars is the BEST single portable game experience ever, and its perfectly suited to DS. That game alone, with full functioning map editors, and over 100 missions, and its like Chess, classic, real strategy and real gameplay don't get old. A handful of truly replayable games, and on the DS I know there will be at least a couple revolutionary groundbreaking titles, that's why I'm getting one.

If it fails, as long as I get my six great titles and the backward compatibility with the GBA libary (there's another 4 or 5 of those titles I'd like to play) it'll have been what I expected and wanted.

I have no interest in it playing Mp3's, buying memory cards, buying movies I already own on little disks. PsP looks to me to be duplicating the console game experience, at least from the line-up. Handheld needs to be different, you are on the go, the screen is smaller, the time you spend playing is different. Like Warioware. . .perfect, addictive, pick-up-and play on-the-go gaming.

Anyway, I respect everyone's opinion on this one. I'm totally stoked about the DS, but I have no problem seeing why people will be stoked about the PsP. It looks cool. It has great graphics, and it will be able to play games that are more like what you are used to on your console. There are probably people who will even watch movies on it, though I can't for the life of me figure out why you would spend all that money replacing your DvD's with little DvDs when you could just buy a portable DvD player that plays regular DvDs.

Maybe nintendo is doomed, the DS is its demise. Whatever, though. I enjoy what they create, I'll enjoy the DS, even if its the last thing Nintendo ever makes. And if it sucks, I can always buy a PsP, or go back to doing what I usually do on my lunch hour and on down time while traveling: read a book.

The main problem I see beyond what we have already talked about with the DS is that it is using old technology. I've seen the games up close and they are pretty much PSOne quality-wise to N64 at the top end. That's not too hot. Madden looks like total butt.

I'm not endorsing the PSP and don't even plan on buying one at this point in time. Geez...I already have enough electronic gizmos and crap to keep me busy forever. And as review sites and Waco are already saying (though I loathe agreeing with anything Waco says), the digital D-pad is totally imprecise with modern-style 3D titles.

but aside from gaming, have you seen the new Rammstein album? It's called Reise, Reise and it's friggin' awesome! Check it out & http://www.rammstein.com and launch the player to see videos and hear two of their best songs of the new album-Amerika and Mein Teil. Killer tracks!

[Gadfly2317]

The main problem I see beyond what we have already talked about with the DS is that it is using old technology. I've seen the games up close and they are pretty much PSOne quality-wise to N64 at the top end. That's not too hot. Madden looks like total butt.

I'm not endorsing the PSP and don't even plan on buying one at this point in time. Geez...I already have enough electronic gizmos and crap to keep me busy forever. And as review sites and Waco are already saying (though I loathe agreeing with anything Waco says), the digital D-pad is totally imprecise with modern-style 3D titles.

but aside from gaming, have you seen the new Rammstein album? It's called Reise, Reise and it's friggin' awesome! Check it out & http://www.rammstein.com and launch the player to see videos and hear two of their best songs of the new album-Amerika and Mein Teil. Killer tracks!

That's the thing I like most about the PsP, actually, is the small analog stick. I wish the DS had included one. As far as technology, I don't know how knew, old, or expensive any of this stuff is. These hand helds are really small. . .if the PsP has graphics as powerful as Ps2, how are they creating a system that powerful so small? Isn't that new technology, and isn't it really expensive?

As far as N64 power in a DS (I thought the DS was just slightly more powerful than an N64, but I could be wrong), as far as handheld, it seems like a pretty big leap over the GBA. I really hope developers stick to more 2d games. Handheld has been the last safe haven for 2d gaming.

Haven't heard the latest Rammstein album--I'll have to check out. . . I really like their music, but they aren't a band I pick up stuff from right away--I think I only have 3 of their albums, including the last one you recommended. Most recently, A Perfect Circle: eMOTIVe has been my most listened to album. That, and Marilyn Manson's: Lest We Forget. The Dillenger Escape Plan: Miss Machine is an insanely good album, too. Mostly insane. I know you listen to a lot of metal. . .I haven't listened to much traditional metal in years, but on a whim I picked up Megadeth's "Peace Sells" album. What a bit of time travel that was. Back in the eighties, that seemed like pretty hard, abrasive rock, but after putting my ears through stuff like Dillenger Escape Plan, it sounded like Classical Music (but in a good way.)

[Gadfly2317]

I know plenty of laptop owners who get along quite well with battery life that's less than the psp. When I'm at home, why would I even bother using the battery when I can hook it up to the ac adapter. But, I can't play it through an entire flight say the nintendo brownies, and how many flights do you take per year, anyway..

Sorry, but I can't imagine being at home, squatting next to a wall outlet to play my portable handheld. Kind of defeats the purpose of "portable" and anyway, if you're at home, play your console.

Airplane flights? My wife and I travel quite a bit, and will be doing a whole lot more in the next year, but that's probably irrelevant for handhelds, which are currently, and will probably continue to be, dominated mostly by younger gamers. Younger gamers often have this gaming schedule during their day if they are currently really hooked on a particular game: Bus ride to school, study hall, lunch, bus ride home, and then possibily a long boring trip to walmart with mom after arriving home from school. . . which can add up to quite a bit of time right there. It would be nice to not have to charge every single day.

Battery life is still not going to be biggest issue with the PsP. . . the following are really likely problems, especially with the younger market who will mostly still make up the handheld demographic, but we'll just have to wait and see. The analog stick wearing out. Disk read errors, more screen scratch (avoidable with a carrying case, but a lot of kids will just throw it in the backpack. . .nintendo clamshell design reduces the problem).

The price difference is relatively important. DS will hit $100 a lot quicker, and the price to purchase a PsP is more than $200 unless they pack in a memory card. Backward compatibility will be an issue. I've talked to a few parents about the DS at work, in conversations about cool christmas presents. Most of them haven't heard of the DS, but the first question every single time was "will it play the GBA games?" Totally serious.

The DS and PsP are both launch with 8-10 games, but the big GBA library is very much a plus for the DS.

[theWacoKid]

Sorry, but I can't imagine being at home, squatting next to a wall outlet to play my portable handheld. Kind of defeats the purpose of "portable" and anyway, if you're at home, play your console.

Airplane flights? My wife and I travel quite a bit, and will be doing a whole lot more in the next year, but that's probably irrelevant for handhelds, which are currently, and will probably continue to be, dominated mostly by younger gamers. Younger gamers often have this gaming schedule during their day if they are currently really hooked on a particular game: Bus ride to school, study hall, lunch, bus ride home, and then possibily a long boring trip to walmart with mom after arriving home from school. . . which can add up to quite a bit of time right there. It would be nice to not have to charge every single day.

Battery life is still not going to be biggest issue with the PsP. . . the following are really likely problems, especially with the younger market who will mostly still make up the handheld demographic, but we'll just have to wait and see. The analog stick wearing out. Disk read errors, more screen scratch (avoidable with a carrying case, but a lot of kids will just throw it in the backpack. . .nintendo clamshell design reduces the problem).

The price difference is relatively important. DS will hit $100 a lot quicker, and the price to purchase a PsP is more than $200 unless they pack in a memory card. Backward compatibility will be an issue. I've talked to a few parents about the DS at work, in conversations about cool christmas presents. Most of them haven't heard of the DS, but the first question every single time was "will it play the GBA games?" Totally serious.

The DS and PsP are both launch with 8-10 games, but the big GBA library is very much a plus for the DS.

Sony has already stated their intended market for the psp is 18+. I honestly don't see kids with a psp. That's why I've stated that I don't see the psp challenging nintendo for handheld dominance. I could see the psp with a 25 to 30% market share of new handheld purchases within two years.

In my viewpoint, the saving grace of the DS is backward compatability with gba sp games. Without that, I wouldn't even glance in the direction of the DS. Cool is one thing, I like cool, but nintendo lately has been different for the sake of being different without bothering to bring forward compelling reasons to support that difference.

As for the psp, if I were to buy such a unit, and that's a big if, I'd immediately pick up an extended warranty, because I expect overall reliabilty to be less than the DS. For the time being, I don't have any real reasons for picking up a handheld. To a certain extent, I'm dismayed that both portables will likely defocus the 2d game. With companies not doing 2d games on consoles, the handhelds are perfect for that. I'd rather play super mario world with spot on digital control than super mario DS with comprimises made in the control translating analog to the DS.

That's why I look at the DS and ask if it's worth it, an extra $100 canadian when I see myself playing primarily games from the gba library.

[AOE Enforcer]

That's the thing I like most about the PsP, actually, is the small analog stick. I wish the DS had included one. As far as technology, I don't know how knew, old, or expensive any of this stuff is. These hand helds are really small. . .if the PsP has graphics as powerful as Ps2, how are they creating a system that powerful so small? Isn't that new technology, and isn't it really expensive?

As far as N64 power in a DS (I thought the DS was just slightly more powerful than an N64, but I could be wrong), as far as handheld, it seems like a pretty big leap over the GBA. I really hope developers stick to more 2d games. Handheld has been the last safe haven for 2d gaming.

Haven't heard the latest Rammstein album--I'll have to check out. . . I really like their music, but they aren't a band I pick up stuff from right away--I think I only have 3 of their albums, including the last one you recommended. Most recently, A Perfect Circle: eMOTIVe has been my most listened to album. That, and Marilyn Manson's: Lest We Forget. The Dillenger Escape Plan: Miss Machine is an insanely good album, too. Mostly insane. I know you listen to a lot of metal. . .I haven't listened to much traditional metal in years, but on a whim I picked up Megadeth's "Peace Sells" album. What a bit of time travel that was. Back in the eighties, that seemed like pretty hard, abrasive rock, but after putting my ears through stuff like Dillenger Escape Plan, it sounded like Classical Music (but in a good way.)

My big complaint with the N64-ish power is that quite frankly-N64 and PSOne graphics were basically ass. They were either an ugly pixelated mess or an ugly blurrrrryyyy mess. The early 3D games reeked of suckage in the graphics department. Now, the 128-bit generation solved most of these problems with jaggies being pretty much the last big frontier to explore. The lack of analog control is also quite bothersome. And apparently, even Nintendo's flagship launch Mario game is having technical difficulties in the control dept.

I too have the new A Perfect Circle album eMOTIVe. Great stuff and anti-war theme going on. You say you have three Rammstein albums? They only had four before this newest one. Herzeleid, Sensucht, Live Aus Berlin (live album) and Mutter. Reise, Reise is the newest and only their fourth studio effort. So basically if you liked the others, you will like this one as well. Amerika is worth the $10 (at Best Buy anyway) alone that you pay for the disc. "We're all living in Amerika, Amerika-ist wunderbar. We're all living in Amerkia, Amerika, Amerika. We're all living in Amerika, Coca-Cola, sometimes war. We're all living in Amerika, Amerika, Amerika."

[theWacoKid]

Well, 1up.com has a review of super mario DS and the review seems to be quite critical of not only the game but the hardware as well. A few paragraphs.

"In fact, I'm even less inclined to shoot for 100% completion of Mario 64 DS than I was of the original, a fact I attribute entirely to the quirks of the DS hardware. Unlike many people, I don't think the DS is destined for failure at the hands of the PSP; but at the same time, I also don't think games like Mario 64 DS are ideal for the platform. There's little about the game that justifies having dual screens -- the bottom screen is used primarily for displaying a map of the current area, but you know, I did just fine without one all those years ago. The other function served by the second screen is to make up for the differences between the N64 controller and the DS: the lack of those little camera buttons (no bad thing) is compensated for by four tappable camera controls on the system's bottom screen, which admittedly works fairly well but certainly could have been achieved through other means.

The touch screen also optionally compensates for the system's lack of built-in analog control, which sounds OK in theory and actually works pretty well for an FPS like Metroid Hunters. But simulated mouselook control is a whole different creature from a simulated analog stick, and the fake analog setup in Mario 64 is pretty awful. The problem is that the largely frictionless screen doesn't offer any form of tactile feedback; the N64's stick had a certain amount of resistance and automatically re-centered, but you get neither of those with the touch-screen control. So ultimately, you'll probably choose to use the D-pad, which is brilliant for 2D games and wretched for 3D. The decision to use a D-pad on the DS was undoubtedly another example of Nintendo's bloody-minded adherence to tradition (given that they invented D-pads in the first place), but it's one that works to the detriment of the system. And certainly to the detriment of Mario 64 DS: while early levels are easy enough, once you start getting into the tricky, demanding later stages that were hard enough with perfect analog precision you'll find yourself dying far too often to feel like you're having a good time.

(You can expect to hear this complaint in countless future DS reviews, so get used to it now.)

Among things I'm reading on message boards, a lot of people have complained about dead pixels, blurry bottom screen and a generally underwhelming launch lineup. Still, 8 year olds will eat it up, I had to elbow a few to get a look at the software offerings. But, this ain't the system for me. I'm a big control guy, and having to use the white and black buttons on the xbox controller drives me nuts.

[Gadfly2317]

(You can expect to hear this complaint in countless future DS reviews, so get used to it now.)

Among things I'm reading on message boards, a lot of people have complained about dead pixels, blurry bottom screen and a generally underwhelming launch lineup. Still, 8 year olds will eat it up, I had to elbow a few to get a look at the software offerings. But, this ain't the system for me. I'm a big control guy, and having to use the white and black buttons on the xbox controller drives me nuts.

I agree with something you said in another post, something like "developers trying to shoe horn their games onto the system." Not everything is going to work. Regarding your harsh comment "8 year olds will eat it up" please note that EVERY person picking one up at Gamestop when I was there was teen thru mid thirtys. The first new poster in a while Aylmer, is obviously a business travelling adult gamer very much enjoying his new DS.

On Mario 64, my experience does not mirror the post above. First, it looks incredible, there's even some level portions and music ripped from Sunshine, and the water effects are better than Mario 64.

Control is this: the system is not analog. That's the reality You can't play the main 3d game entirely with the styuls, and the D-pad does a fine job. You have to play the main game traditional style, D-pad instead of analog, it works well. It is not perfect, but it is FAR from something that significantly impacts the gameplay. Trust me, there are going to be plenty of issues with camera control on the PsP, too. Not everything can make the 100% perfect translation to the small screen, which is why its the NEW stuff, not the ports that are going to truly rule.

The Mini-games are the WHOLE reason to own the new Mario 64 though. They are not like Mario Party minigames, for the most part, many of them are in the vein of Tetris--they are not LIKE Tetris, but they have that element of simplicity, accellerating challenge, and pick-up and play addictiveness. Nearly 30 mini games. Think of WHY you play a portable. It's like Solitare, or Tetris, or any other quick diversion most of the time. You are at the DMV, a boring bus ride across town, an hour between classes, sitting in the Student Union with studying you don't want to do. Portable gaming SHOULD be different than console gaming, most of the time.

A lot of these mini-games have simply blown me away--a few are instant classics for me. And they all can be played solely with the touch screen, so there are no control issues. It is feather-touch responsive. And part of it for me is I type a lot, and I game console a lot, and I play guitar. My hands get a lot of work. And ALL handheld systems cause handcramp, including the DS when I'm playing traditional games. But there is ZERO handcramp after a lot of time playing those minigames (I will be using them for filler when I'm bored later, right now I'm addicted 'cause its a new toy so I've sunk hours at a time into them.) Ultra-addictive and deep games like Advance Wars and other Strategy tactics games will be able to be played solely with the stylus, I'm certain, and it will be a very fast, smooth and incredible way to play.

I really want to ask you Waco, why the PsP seems the superior portable gaming choice. I know what better graphics look like, I know what single screen, face button/shoulder button analog/dpad games are like. You are duplicating the console experience on the small screen. This has its place. I do believe the PsP is a viable choice--especially for kids who may not have a console at all because parents don't want their one TV tied up by the kids.

But we are gamers. What do we value most? I love technology and great graphics. But if you've gamed a lot, as you and I have, you get jaded. You've done it all. If you're like me, and you seem to be in a lot of your tastes, what you value most is the newest, most innovative experience you can get. A good, "same old same old" game is enjoyable, its famialiarity, its like a formula buddy comedy. Every so often, no matter how cliche the formula, one comes along and you enjoy it despite its cliches.

But when presented with something truly different, to me the graphics issue or the mildly larger screen isn't even a factor--not when the DS looks as good as it does. Graphics are not an issue for you either, or you'd be like Drunkard Thumbmaster and snub things like Katamari Damacy, which you turned me onto (if I haven't thanked you: Thanks!) I kid you not, playing the DS has been a breath of fresh air. It is really a different experience. . .something we gamers got all to rarely. And your complaint about the size of the launch line-up is fine, it's a reason to wait, unless you already have some GBA games.

My imagination for the DS was totally limited to RPG's and Tactics games, menu heavy games, and even that alone would have been great. But just from what I've experience in Mario 64 mini-games and Feel the Magic has hinted at just how diverse and unique gaming can be on this thing. This is just the beginning. This system is going to inspire some serious creativity. You're right, initially, we'll see a lot of developers trying fit their formula games on the system, and do so poorly.

Keep your mind open. And waiting is generally always smart at launch. All this potential? It never hurts to be skeptical and wait until that potential manifests. But right now, this Mario 64 game alone will fill the couple hours a week I portable game for quite some time. . . but I can't wait for Advance Wars, one of the best games on ANY system in years.

I have never been so instantly happy with a gadget purchase as this one.

I'm not naive. I know a lot of the gaming community is about "graphics" and "most powerful" and what's cool and hip. No one markets cool and hip in gaming like Sony. The PsP will have some great games, and some very BIG name games. I don't want to see it fail, but I'd hate to see the DS fail because of so much early, and unwarranted criticism from people who appear to me to be slow to adapt to something new. I want to see innovation, risk, and creativity in the game industry rewarded.

And I don't want you guys around here I chat with all the time to miss out on this thing if you have any interest in portable gaming at all. I'm rambling I know, but this isn't just excess enthusiasm 'cause its a new toy for me. The DS, seriously, is a total blast.

[Gamer88]

Battery Life Revealed
Sony talks specifics on battery life for the PSP.

October 27, 2004 - This is it. The one piece of information we've all been waiting for. Sony Computer Entertainment has at last managed to mention the word "battery" with regards to the PSP and follow that up with solid numbers.

In the words of the company, "PSP features an integrated high output lithium-ion battery that provides a play time of between 4 and 6 hours for game titles and continuous 4 to 5 hours for video viewing." These numbers, according to SCE, were determined with the system's luminance set to maximum (180 cd/m2) and minimum (80 cd/m2), volume set to half the maximum level, headphones used instead of speakers and wireless LAN not in use (note that the maximum luminance value rises to 200 cd/m2 when playing through AC power).
While SCE did not provide details on how much of a hit LAN play would bring about, it's good to at last have an idea of how long we'll be able to play games and watch movies on the PSP. Plus, extra batteries cost just about $45, so doubling the available time (if you're willing to carry a spare with you) could be an legitimate option.

All that's left now is to get the system in our hands and start checking these numbers out for ourselves. With PSP now launching to Japan on 12/12, the wait won't be too long (if you plan on importing, as we do).


http://psp.ign.com/articles/560/560950p1.html

[theWacoKid]

The problem, Gaddy, in a nutshell with the DS is completely this. Don't even bother with games that are ports or hand me down versions of existing games. This system is ill-designed for playing madden or ridge racer. The psp versions will destroy the ds offerings. Crush them into little bits and spit them out.

People keep talking about how inexpensive the psp price point is. Well, it would've been even cheaper except sony upped the memory from the original spec of 8megs to 32megs at the request of the development community. With traditional offerings the psp will stomp all over the DS with widescreen support, a larger, brighter, higher res screen, the larger capacity of umd discs, and the far greater horsepower under the hood.

Nintendo's only real hope with the DS is unique offerings that actually do make maximum use of dual screens, the touch screen options, integrated mic and wireless capability. I tried out a DS today and controlling yoshi with the d-pad flat out sucked. I couldn't try out this thumb strap thingy, but digital control doesn't cut it for a game like Super Mario, the game that introduced analog control to console gaming. I'm suprised that more people haven't taken in the irony of this situation.

Want to know why sony's successful, because sony doesn't fight the tides of change. When nintendo introduced analog control, sony went, we need that, too and so they revamped the ps controller to include analog control. Nintendo wants to be different, well, they better be, because otherwise, they're going to be in real trouble.

I took a look at the price of the DS at $199.99 can and a gba sp at $87.99 and thought, exactly what more am I getting for that extra $112. I can make a case for the gba sp, and playing some classic 2d gaming with the ol digital pad, but nintendo needs to rethink seriously what they're going to do with the DS along with their third parties. These games need to be original offerings. Lame generic racers, and some crappy EA ports aren't going to cut it.

Cnet did a review of the DS. Battery life was 6 hours and 40 minutes according to them, which is at the low end of the scale.

Bottom line, I don't think the DS will be the crowning success nintendo is hoping for. They've taken a rather large risk not including some type of traditional analog control along with giving up a lot to the psp in terms of screen size, resolution and processing power. Nintendo is very arrogant thinking the psp is going to be some pushover and that this is just like the ngage or sega game gear.

All I saw at launch lineup were 6 games, and those 6 are the cream of a not very strong crop. Some of the other titles coming out shortly look pretty effin' bad or simply stale leftovers. If wer were talking 6 strong unique entries, that'd be one thing, but that's simply not the case. Time will tell how many games will actually offer unique gameplay that offers compelling entertainment on the DS. I hope a lot, otherwise, the DS is going to be in for a very rough ride.

[Gadfly2317]

The problem, Gaddy, in a nutshell with the DS is completely this. Don't even bother with games that are ports or hand me down versions of existing games. This system is ill-designed for playing madden or ridge racer. The psp versions will destroy the ds offerings. Crush them into little bits and spit them out.

You didn't really respond to what I was saying. All this PsP stuff. . .let's say you are right, and the PsP is all that and consumers gobble it up. I was just asking you as a gamer, don't you prefer innovation? Doesn't the potential of the DS inspire your imagination? The only way it won't deliver on its potential if the system fails. If it is a sales success, developers will be there finding ways to exploit this systems unique interface and screen set-up. How can you not be hoping for that to happen?


Nintendo's only real hope with the DS is unique offerings that actually do make maximum use of dual screens, the touch screen options, integrated mic and wireless capability.
Every game doesn't have to exploit every feature. There's no reason it can't do traditional one-screen games with d-pad, shoulder buttons, and face buttons, with the touch screen kinda of just there with a map, a radar, stats or something. If there isnt' some mind boggling use for the touch screen on every single game, so what? You are always defending Ps2 against Xbox on the graphics front by talking about gameplay. So how come a graphical edge for the PsP suddenly means that the PsP is going to chew up and spit out nintendo on traditional games like racing games? The DS looks really damn good even if the PsP looks better. And look what you are getting . The whole library of past and upcoming GBA games on a backlit system that's nice and big and comfortable (to my hands, compared to the SP), AND it plays one of a kind dual screen games, menu driven games, strategy and RPG games with a better interface, and even think of long verticle screen games like Pinball. And in addition to that, it can play the traditional single screen games just the same as PsP. Sure the graphics aren't as good, and there isn't a small analog stick, but there's no way I'd trade all that I'm getting with the DS for some better graphics.


Want to know why sony's successful, because sony doesn't fight the tides of change. When nintendo introduced analog control, sony went, we need that, too and so they revamped the ps controller to include analog control. Nintendo wants to be different, well, they better be, because otherwise, they're going to be in real trouble.

Sony's succesful because they aren't different, but Nintendo is going to be in trouble if they aren't different? I don't get what you're saying here.

I took a look at the price of the DS at $199.99 can and a gba sp at $87.99 and thought, exactly what more am I getting for that extra $112. I can make a case for the gba sp, and playing some classic 2d gaming with the ol digital pad, but nintendo needs to rethink seriously what they're going to do with the DS along with their third parties. These games need to be original offerings. Lame generic racers, and some crappy EA ports aren't going to cut it.

For that extra money you can play all your GBA games, pick up the couple cool games that are out right now. . . and play all the other stuff when it comes out. Or you can wait for the first price drop. . .you'll still be getting so much more gaming potential, traditional and innovative, than you will on PsP. I mean, look at the attach rate for handheld games. We gamers don't buy as many as we do for consoles. You need to get over this obsession with number of games. I don't know what your third party gripes are about. There's a 120 games in the works, and its quite a mix. Some of them will be great, some of them will suck, just like all game lineups for all systems.

You mention Square a lot. . .they've Final Fantasy III, first ever US release--updated with touch screen interface. and Crystal Chronicles will finally be right, with wireless. And a completely new Mana game.

Of the 120 games, and 20 nintendo games already announced, theres a good number that have tremendous potential. . . certainly more than I will have time to play. And you're right, there's no telling what kind of things will be announced for the DS's second year, after developers have gotten familiar with the hardware.

Side note, you complained about how the analog steering wheel in Ridge Racer is supposed to work like crap. Maybe it does, but this is the first attempt at programming an analog touch screen steering wheel. Does that mean it can't and won't be done better? There's no reason that it shouldn't work very well.

There are plenty of positives about the PsP--and we've all pointed at plenty of negatives about the PsP. I'd just like to see you pull off your sony rose-tinted glasses for a minute, and talk about the DS's positives that appeal to you, if they do, and let your imagination wander and tell us what you can visualize being done with too screens and the new interface. You can't just criticize all the time.Your supposed to love games and gaming and innovation You are a gamer man. Start acting like one.

[Gadfly2317]

My big complaint with the N64-ish power is that quite frankly-N64 and PSOne graphics were basically ass. They were either an ugly pixelated mess or an ugly blurrrrryyyy mess. The early 3D games reeked of suckage in the graphics department. Now, the 128-bit generation solved most of these problems with jaggies being pretty much the last big frontier to explore. The lack of analog control is also quite bothersome. And apparently, even Nintendo's flagship launch Mario game is having technical difficulties in the control dept.

I too have the new A Perfect Circle album eMOTIVe. Great stuff and anti-war theme going on. You say you have three Rammstein albums? They only had four before this newest one. Herzeleid, Sensucht, Live Aus Berlin (live album) and Mutter. Reise, Reise is the newest and only their fourth studio effort. So basically if you liked the others, you will like this one as well. Amerika is worth the $10 (at Best Buy anyway) alone that you pay for the disc. "We're all living in Amerika, Amerika-ist wunderbar. We're all living in Amerkia, Amerika, Amerika. We're all living in Amerika, Coca-Cola, sometimes war. We're all living in Amerika, Amerika, Amerika."

I'm getting the Rammstein album right away. I finally got to listen to some of it online today. Not only does it rock, but I can't resist the irony of a band from the country that gave us HItler giving cultural commentary on the failure of democracy in America. The world has indeed been turned upside down. The Bush monarchy is still tinkering away on that "New World Order thing."

Regarding sucky graphics, while I hope that handhelds will still give us a LOT of 2d gaming, on 3d, I don't remember Mario 64 looking this good. I remember it being grainy and blocky. It looks pretty sweet on the DS. There are levels I've played that look like they are from Sunshine, with sweet water effects. I dont know if you can attribute the graphical improvement to the small screen, or if its just that the system is a little more powerful than Ps1/N64. It's not GC or Ps2, but this is an incredible handheld experience, and I don't think it's even possible to argue that PsP is going to give us any where the kind of original game experiences we are going to get on DS.

Mario 64 was never my favorite game, though I enjoyed it when I got around to playing it. The DS version is no different for me. It has some new stuff, but I think the mini-games are perfect low-investment portable games, and there are a LOT of them, some are nearly Tetris-like in their addictive simplicity. USA Today did a DS review and pretty much drooled over the "Feel the Magic" mini-games, which really are cool, but I'm enjoying the Mario 64 ones more.

I haven't had much difficulty with the D-pad control. Analog touch screen doesn't work for most of the main Mario 64 game. D-pad is less precise, but it really isn't the big deal it's made out to be.

3d will NOT translate without some compromise to EITHER the DS or PSP. Camera problems, visibility and targeting are all going to be problems in many if not most 3d PsP games. Hell, these are sometimes problems on dual analog games on PS2 and Xbox on a TV!!!!! I think people are being judgemental without real perspective here.

[theWacoKid]

There are plenty of positives about the PsP--and we've all pointed at plenty of negatives about the PsP. I'd just like to see you pull off your sony rose-tinted glasses for a minute, and talk about the DS's positives that appeal to you, if they do, and let your imagination wander and tell us what you can visualize being done with too screens and the new interface. You can't just criticize all the time.Your supposed to love games and gaming and innovation You are a gamer man. Start acting like one.

I've already stated an interest in Feel the Magic. I think at this point, minigames or even microgames seem to be the strength of the system. If nothing else, the psp will introduce some badly needed competition, which should force nintenndo to release titles that play to the DS's strengths.

Wireless is a strength, but then you're going to need someone to play against, it's not like we're talking xbox live here. So, unless, I can find a like minded gamer willing to splurge on a ds and a copy of madden, my only alternative might be to hang around schoolyards at recess. "Okay, so who's up for a litte football, I'll spot you two touchdowns, guys."

It's not the DS doesn't have some strong points, but a lot of these early games make limited use of the features in games never designed with a touchscreen in mind. I went on the nintendo DS site, which incidentally is very new age, hip, and definitely geared towards adults. They have some videos demoing a number of games, using the stylus for control. Ridge Racer was one of them, so it was actually kind of funny watching what should be an expert player have all sorts of problems holding his car in a straght line. Games like Ridge Racer, that are very conventional, are going to bomb on the DS. This is the type of game that will do very well on the psp. I hope nintendo realizes they can't compete with the psp when it comes to this kind of title. They need to go to Namco and say, "Make something else for us, that's different and suits the DS."

I think nintendo painted themselves into a bit of a box. They've put together an innovative hardware system, now, let's see them deliver on the software end. It really shouldn't be sega leading the way showing nintendo how it's done.

What games would I like to see on the DS. To tell you the truth, gaddy, I've never given too much thought about a touch screen as an input device. It's never been at the top of my wish list of things I wanted to see added to gaming. Nintendo is not out here filling a demand that's gone long unfilled. They're looking to create a demand for features that the market may or may not care for. In other words, ninty is going out on a flyer, hoping to hit paydirt. Since they already have a handheld, the gba sp to fall back on, they can afford to take the chance. And then, of course, you have to ask about the rumored successor to the gba sp, the GBA 2 or whatever nintendo will call it, which is suppposed to be the actual competitor for the psp. If the GBA 2 shows up, where does that leave the DS. I worry about nintendo and their ability to provide adequate software for their various platforms and their heavy reliance on franchise properties. Third parties, like sega, you can't rely on, look what's happened to their support of the xbox platform.

[Gadfly2317]

I've already stated an interest in Feel the Magic. I think at this point, minigames or even microgames seem to be the strength of the system. If nothing else, the psp will introduce some badly needed competition, which should force nintenndo to release titles that play to the DS's strengths.

I think nintendo painted themselves into a bit of a box. They've put together an innovative hardware system, now, let's see them deliver on the software end. It really shouldn't be sega leading the way showing nintendo how it's done.

What games would I like to see on the DS. To tell you the truth, gaddy, I've never given too much thought about a touch screen as an input device. It's never been at the top of my wish list of things I wanted to see added to gaming.

You make a lot of good points. One thing I find interesting is this perception people have that Sega is "showing nintendo how its done" with Feel the Magic. I'm enjoying Feel the Magic quite a bit, but its just flat out incorrect that the minigames are better on FtM. Most of them are rubathons, which is why I've taken to using a qtip instead of the stylus for FtM. . . they arent precision games, and so far, they don't have the quick thinking puzzle aspect of some of the games in SM64ds.

I will probably also get Wareware DS because 1.)minigames are highly suited to on-the-go pick-up-and-play gaming, and 2.) DS does minigames like nothing else I've ever experienced.

Your best point is about traditional games. If someone is going to put out a traditional game on the system, like a racing game, I don't think they should feel compelled stick in touchscreen functionality if it doesn't really fit the game. There's no reason the second screen can't simply be a rear window for a car. Of course, you could reach over and use the touch screen to "shoot bullets" out your window at the cops chasing you. But really, you should just drive with pad like you already do with racing games on the GBA.

But minigames aren't the only thing that the DS will excel at. You say there's been no market demand for touchscreen interface. Like you, I never sat around thinking, gee, I wish games could be played with a touchscreen. But as soon as I saw the design of the DS, there are a lot of games I already play that are perfectly suited to that kind of control.

I've never played any of those card based games, but waching my nephew on his GBA scroll through tons of card menus, those Yu gi oh and Dragon Ball Z and even Pokemon games. . . I don't know much about them except they are popular, and appear to me from what I know about them to be suited to touch interface.

And ALL RPG's really, could be enhanced. Do you have a GBA? Seems you said you did. Did you ever play Advance Wars of FF: Tactics Advance? Shame on you if you haven't. Advance Wars is in my top ten favorite games of the last several years, perhaps of all time (across all platforms)--I'd have purchased a DS just for that game alone. As soon as I saw the DS all I could think about was how nice it would be not to have to navigate menus, inventorys, weapons, spells etc on Tactics and RPG's with a tediously inefficient d-pad or analog stick, and for Advance Wars it was immediately obvious you should just be able to touch your tank, missile launcher, helipcopter, etc, touch the target, select action from pop-up menu. I guess I may be setting myself up for dissapointment if they don't implement the kind of functionality I envision, but it will make this kind of game rule, and they did put the grid map on the touch screen, so it must be going to work this way in some form, with animations on the top screen.

Also the level editor for Advance Wars, you could put the whole tool kit on the bottom screen for the stylus, and the map you are creating on the top screen.

Fast, action based 3d games with lots of small things like Metroid Hunters are not what portable gaming is all about, those games just aren't going to work that well, even on the PsP. The kind of games that are most enjoyable on portables are quick pick up and play games (pinball will be very cool on the DS, if you've played many of the SM64 or FtM minigames you've seen how the two screens interface top to bottom, so you could have a long verticle pinball table), and the other kind of games that work are more methodical RPG and strategy games--and these indepth games can suck you in for hours. But games that can do that are hard on the old thumbs.

I'm looking forward to playing the PsP. . .and I might even pick one up after a price drop if they start releasing games like Culdcept, and if the DS doesn't get the support for the kind of games I'm talking about. But if it does. . . the sky is the limit, there is so much you could do that I wish it were all here right now. You know in strategy games how you group troop units, or define patrol paths? You could do that all on the DS. And you could have HUGE levels. Switch over to a map, see where other units are, click on them, and the top screen repositions to those units. I would LOVE to see a Starcraft game for the DS.

And actually, I hope we get DS versions of good old classics, board games like Monopoly and Risk, maybe some card games like Texas Holdem, Casino games, Mahjongg, Pinball, Othello, Chess. . . ALL of these are perfect for portable gaming, and perfect for two-screens with touch interface. Waco, my poor old thumbs are tired, and I want to game without my thumbs for a change. My thumbs need to be rested up for the console games, which are where you need to play all those fast, precision shooting button heavy games, racers, fight games, etc. On the go, I want to game without my thumbs. I want to game in a new way. That's why I'm so enthusiastic in my cheerleading for the DS.

Oh well, here's to hoping. I understand your wait-and-see attitude. It's smart, and there's not much for the system yet. . .most of what I've said is hypothetical, so I was voting with my pocketbook, knowing that it has to sell if it is too achieve its potential. I KNOW they are making Advance Wars and Animal Crossing, so whatever kind of other support it gets in terms of RPG and Tactics will all be icing for me. Right now, the only reason to pick it up early in its life is if you just can't wait and have the money, or if, like me, you had some GBA games, but hadn't ever upgraded to the backlit SP, and wanted to finally, actually be able to see the games well.

[theWacoKid]

You'd think I'd own a gba, I've bought enough handhelds for nieces and nephews. But, no, I don't own a gba or sp, but I've played on both. The gba had a screen that drove me nuts, poor lighting and tons of glare. The sp is too small, imo, to hold comfortably.

I have a bias against handheld systems in general. The software is overpriced, imo. I look at madden DS at $50can, and go, no way in hell am I paying that, especially since EA dropped the price of madden for consoles down to $40can.

Psp software is going for $50us equivalent in japan. If these prices hold for NA, I don't care if sony brings out the psp for $100can, I'll be passing. There's no way I'm paying console prices for handheld games, when I don't even pay console prices for console games anymore.

As for me, I can't add another system, without taking one away. So, if I add a DS, something's got to go. If I were to add a DS, I'd probably dump the cube, although it'd be tempting to get rid of that big kludge of a system, the xbox. It's just so large, ugly and noisy, man, what's with M$, did these guys even hire anybody with an understanding of ergonomics.

On the psp, most interesting game I've seen is Mercury. It's a puzzle game where you control a ball of mercury which can split up and then re-combine. Very trippy, you'd probably get a kick out of it. Also lumines, is a puzzle music title from the creators of rez.

Well, I hope the DS comes out with more inventive games and they stick to that $30US price point. That way, I can dump one of my consoles. Right now, nothing on the DS is screaming buy me. The DS hardware is ahead of the software, and for me, it would be a source of profound frustration to buy games, and then complain about how they didn't use the DS fully.