Got a Geforce FX and wanna play Half-Life 2?

[Renzatic Gear]

Too bad...this has made me lean more towards the Radeon cards than anything I've seen. Valve has done nothing but ***** about the FX cards since they started producing HL2 and this shows why...

Funky Benchmarks (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1261768,00.asp)

When a cheapy Radeon 9600 beats the top of the line FX 5900 in top quality settings you know somethings up.

[E.T.]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Too bad...this has made me lean more towards the Radeon cards than anything I've seen. Valve has done nothing but ***** about the FX cards since they started producing HL2 and this shows why...

Funky Benchmarks (http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1261768,00.asp)

When a cheapy Radeon 9600 beats the top of the line FX 5900 in top quality settings you know somethings up.</div>

At this point of benchmarking by Valve, it doesnt look good for nVidia.
Read through the whole story RG linked above, its premature & incomplete. [though Id admit nVidia has its work cut out].

Do drivers effect FPS? [rhetorical question]
This area offers hope for increased perfomace by the time HL2 shows up.
Valve tested FX cards on Det 45.23 drivers. nVidia has new Det50. drivers yet to be tested....we'll have to wait & see if marks improve.

While tests charted were for FX cards, Valve did test G4ti cards, [which did do better: "Valve tested G4ti cards & found performance better than ALL of the suposedley newer/better GPU's".

In the end, its the usual benchmark/fps contest...the rest of the gaming world will likely play & enjoy HL2 irregardless of what brand GPU they have.

[Renzatic Gear]

Yeah, the one thing about the Det 50's is that Valve doesn't recommend them. They're mentioning that for the FX line to get fairly good framerates they'll have to cut plenty of corners with the visual quality to get in the up and running with the Radeon's. There was another article I read where some of the Geforce cards had entire effects missing due to the drivers cutting them out..you can check it out here (http://www.tech-report.com/etc/2003q3/valve/index.x?pg=1)

Considering that a Radeon 9800 costs a bit less than an FX5900, I'm leaning more towards ATI for my next hardware purchase. Looks like Nvidia has finally been leapfrogged.

[E.T.]

<div class=\"smallfont\">
Looks like Nvidia has finally been leapfrogged.</div>

Yes, for now, "Leapfrogged". Its a good discription as this is typical competion in the GPU free market place. Winner today, second place tomorrow.

GPU's have got to be the most requently upgraded piece of harware for us PC gamers. I think this inspires the market place.

Just so HL2 plays relatively bug free on most compliant GPU's, I'm not going to get too excited about having the "latest/greatest" GPU.
[been there, done that $]. :D

[Static_Fred]

Dude, i can't believe this.... I'm running a Gforce 4 4200 128 meg card, i probably can't even play HL2 on decent settings!!!!

[Renzatic Gear]

It'll run fine as long as you're using DX8 settings. Once you bump it up to DX9 then it starts chugging on everything but the highest end card.

And since your Geforce 4 isn't DX9 capable anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. It'll still look great regardless.

[E.T.]

<div class=\"smallfont\">It'll run fine as long as you're using DX8 settings. Once you bump it up to DX9 then it starts chugging on everything but the highest end card.

And since your Geforce 4 isn't DX9 capable anyway, I wouldn't worry about it. It'll still look great regardless.</div>

Exactly RG, you beat me to Staic Freds concern about his G4ti card..how did he put it.."maybe not even work for HL2" or something in that vain.
I re-read the article & also the discussions regarding the initial "damning" results for nVidia. I come away with not reading too much into these benchmarks, at least in regards to nVidias GPU's functioning well w/HL2.

Funny, I recall three+ years ago someone telling me my VoDoo3000 would "struggle" to play new games like HL, Deus Ex or AvsP...LOL!
It played just fine [granted, I had features turned down].

[moya]

Things are looking even bleaker for Nvidia (http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=review&dId=517)

I've got a Geforce 4 SE 4800 in my machine now. I put it in my new setup cos it was cheap and I figured it was good enough to run most games well enough for the time being. A stop-gap solution really. Next upgrade may well be an ATi, the way things are going.

[E.T.]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Things are looking even bleaker for Nvidia (http://www.tweaktown.com/document.php?dType=review&dId=517)

I've got a Geforce 4 SE 4800 in my machine now. I put it in my new setup cos it was cheap and I figured it was good enough to run most games well enough for the time being. A stop-gap solution really. Next upgrade may well be an ATi, the way things are going.</div>


I bet you got a good deal on the SE card!

This is the second "doom-n-gloom" review I've read regarding nVidia & Valves benchmarking. I dont think nVidia is ready to lay down & die though, I believe these moments of victory are a normal proccess of evolution in the GPU market place.

In the end, we gamers benefit w/GPU price reductions :)

[DuncanR2N]

All I know is that I've been very happy with my current GeForce card and I'm definitely not going to run out and by a ATI card for one game. Think about it, does and ATI card perform any better than a GeForce on Quake, Quake II, Unreal, Q3A, etc. Basing a decision to purchase one card or another on an unreleased cutting edge software is a bit premature.

Now, on a different note I have heard some folks say (namely the man himself, John Carmack) that the problems that nVidia is having with HL2 and could happen with any DX9 game. (http://english.bonusweb.cz/interviews/carmackgfx.html) However, again, I think it's a bit premature to say that nVidia's lost it.

Anyway, I'm sure that it will run fine on my GeForce 4. I can't imagine that Valve would alienate a whole segment of gamers.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

<div class=\"smallfont\">All I know is that I've been very happy with my current GeForce card and I'm definitely not going to run out and by a ATI card for one game. Think about it, does and ATI card perform any better than a GeForce on Quake, Quake II, Unreal, Q3A, etc. Basing a decision to purchase one card or another on an unreleased cutting edge software is a bit premature.

Now, on a different note I have heard some folks say (namely the man himself, John Carmack) that the problems that nVidia is having with HL2 and could happen with any DX9 game. (http://english.bonusweb.cz/interviews/carmackgfx.html) However, again, I think it's a bit premature to say that nVidia's lost it.

Anyway, I'm sure that it will run fine on my GeForce 4. I can't imagine that Valve would alienate a whole segment of gamers.</div>

John Carmack said that about HL2, or Doom3?

[moya]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Think about it, does and ATI card perform any better than a GeForce on Quake, Quake II, Unreal, Q3A, etc. Basing a decision to purchase one card or another on an unreleased cutting edge software is a bit premature.
</div>

The thing is, we're not basing our decision to purchase simply on one piece of software, but on the picture as a whole. This includes all the recent headlines about ATi's increasing performance lead over NVidia and the price/performance difference between the two cards. At the end of the day, if there's a card which gives me better performance (and stability) for a lower price, then that's the one I'll go for. I do my homework before upgrading and I don't take spending hundreds of pounds lightly, so I won't simply take into account the performance with one game.

However, basing a decision around performance with the Quake engine games is similarly shortsighted. These are soon to be outdated game engines. Sure, games are still being made and released at present using these engines, but taking the longview is just as important when you're upgrading. (Unless you know that all you'll be playing are Q3 engine-based games.)

[DuncanR2N]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

John Carmack said that about HL2, or Doom3?</div>

He was basically saying it about any DX9 game.

As far as what card to get? I think I'll wait till the game comes out and see what happens.

As a side note, this is one trend that I don't like to see happening. Games that seem to favor one card over another. TRON 2.0 and the UT2K3 for instance bear the nVidia logo and even though I have an nVidia card I don't like to see the Developer favoring one platform over another. It's like we've gone back to the days when 3Dfx was convincing every game it could to only use the 3Dfx API. It's been know that for a long time Valve has been in bed with ATI with regards to the development of HL2 and I wonder if much of the performance discrepancies that we are seeing now are a result of that.

I'd prefer it if developer simply developed a game using a standard API such as Direct3D or OpenGL and stuck with it. I've heard much about HL2 the talk about how it will pick different code paths based on what card it detects which then defeats the whole purpose of DirectX (which was to provide the developer a hardware independant API that they can develop to and they would be insulated from the way the hardware implements the features they are using.

Oh well I'm done with my rant.

[Renzatic Gear]

He was basically saying it about any DX9 game.

As far as what card to get? I think I'll wait till the game comes out and see what happens.

As a side note, this is one trend that I don't like to see happening. Games that seem to favor one card over another. TRON 2.0 and the UT2K3 for instance bear the nVidia logo and even though I have an nVidia card I don't like to see the Developer favoring one platform over another. It's like we've gone back to the days when 3Dfx was convincing every game it could to only use the 3Dfx API. It's been know that for a long time Valve has been in bed with ATI with regards to the development of HL2 and I wonder if much of the performance discrepancies that we are seeing now are a result of that.

I'd prefer it if developer simply developed a game using a standard API such as Direct3D or OpenGL and stuck with it. I've heard much about HL2 the talk about how it will pick different code paths based on what card it detects which then defeats the whole purpose of DirectX (which was to provide the developer a hardware independant API that they can develop to and they would be insulated from the way the hardware implements the features they are using.

Oh well I'm done with my rant.

Well, Duncan, your rant is only half right. Because we do have standardized APIs you'll never see any line of cards that touts one feature that another cannot do. What you WILL see, though, is one card implementing certain features of said APIs better than another. As of now the Radeon seems to be the better overall DX9 card, not due to special features but rather more efficient design, and because of this they'll always be a bit faster in comparison to the slightly sloppy design that the FX series sports.