Xbox: prepare to be buried in America this Fall.

[Gadfly2317]

Setting aside the Japanese market debacle for xbox; can it do enough in NA and elsewhere to pull itself out of third? Or is xbox getting ready to be buried this fall, finally and completely in third everywhere? Can Nintendo take the lead for second place in all territories?

Consider this fall: GC Price drop to $99, GBA to $69. Player's choice games have gone to $19.99 (Luigi, Pikmin, Starfox) and to $29.99 (Metroid, Sunshine, and Animal Crossing.)

Consider the GBA userbase. The GBA player on GC is not just a gimick devise; it is a true gaming pleasure, and with Final Fantasy Tactics and Sword of Mana dropping around the holiday season--these will be the perfect games to break in your GBA player with. This feature has opened a whole new world of gameplay for me.

And then the list of games set to land 4th qtr 03/1st qtr 04 are simply stellar, and most are highly recognized. Mario Kart, Rogue Squadron, 1080 Avalanche, Viewtiful Joe, Billy Hatcher, Metal Gear Solid, Twin Snakes, Kirby's Air-ride, Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, Tales of Symphonia, Pikmin II, and Harvest Moon. THESE ARE ALL EXCLUSIVE (And don't even include the tentatively scheduled Killer 7, Resident Evil 4, Geist, or Giftpia, Zelda, or Metroid II.) Not all of these games are hardcore adult games, but most have wide age-range appeal, existing fanbases, and they are FUN.

The xbox wish list is good, but it as distant as things like Geist and RE4 (Few big guns for xbox won't play on this Holiday's sales: Fable, Psychonauts, Halo II, Crimson Skies.) If they rush these games out before christmas, they will lack polish, and ultimately hurt xbox's rep.

And finally, Nintendo is sitting pretty this fall with multi-platform games including Prince of Persia, Star Craft Ghost, Beyond Good and Evil, True Crime, and XIII to name a few.

Whether or not any of you xbots like any of the numerous EXCLUSIVES I named for the gamecube (and the GBA player for FF Tactics and Mana) be objective here. These are games with fanbases, they are all going to be well executed, polished games. Please tell me, HOW is xbox going to compete against this?

Ninja Gaiden, if it comes out, can't do it alone. More PC ports like Counter Strike going to do it? And how is Otogi? I love Sega, and had hoped to hear some xbox fans talk about this? Is it no good, or did none of you buy it? No wonder Sega's dumping the box. I'd much rather lose a little support from Vivendi and Activision than to be losing support from virtually every major japanese developer.

Poor Xbox. Bye bye.

[mass]

I got a gc, and right now, I'm using it as a doorstop. I haven't played it in months, so I figure I might as well use it for something. I mean, eventually, something has to come out for it worth playing.

Meanwhile I picked up ESPN Football for the xbox and shortly ESPN Hockey for the xbox. Two great sports titles the gc DOESN'T get. I mean, what's the point, you guys wouldn't buy them anyway. You're too busy waiting for Kirby's Air Ride.

:rolleyes:

I'm sorry, but single system gc owners are the definition of pathetic.

[Twelve]

<div class=\"smallfont\">

I'm sorry, but single system gc owners are the definition of pathetic.</div>


I wouldn't call them pathetic, but I would call them bored.

12

[Gadfly2317]

I guess it is a no brainer then. . . you must also agree that the awesome, exclusive first party GC line-up is going to finish off third place xbox this fall. Bored? I haven't had this much fun gaming in years. And much to my surprise much of it is coming via the new GBA Player. Even though I do game on PC as well, a GC-only owner is NOT going to be bored. Xbox? Mass is bragging about a freaking football game? Gee, never played one of those a million times before.

But that's a big chunk of the xbox owners I know. . . blue collar American-beer drinking sports-addicts and Vin Diesel fans. These are good people (some are even related) but they aren't really gamers. They like the xbox because it is big, LOOKS cool, and they can play football games and shoot stuff really graphically. Pretty limited range of interests there. Can't see any of these people playing Advance Wars, FF: Tactics or even Panzer Dragoon. And that's why the actual games (by companies like sega) don't sell on your system. Xbox isn't for people who love games.

Come on. . .surely you guys got something more substantial than a dumbass comment about a doorstop and single system owners. All those plusses in the Gamecube fall strategy I listed. . . what is Xbox going to do to sell in the face of that? Sit around making smartass comments while it falls farther behind?

[Aldrin]

<div class=\"smallfont\">
But that's a big chunk of the xbox owners I know. . . blue collar American-beer drinking sports-addicts and Vin Diesel fans. These are good people (some are even related) but they aren't really gamers. They like the xbox because it is big, LOOKS cool, and they can play football games and shoot stuff really graphically. Pretty limited range of interests there. Can't see any of these people playing Advance Wars, FF: Tactics or even Panzer Dragoon. And that's why the actual games (by companies like sega) don't sell on your system. Xbox isn't for people who love games.

Come on. . .surely you guys got something more substantial than a dumbass comment about a doorstop and single system owners. All those plusses in the Gamecube fall strategy I listed. . . what is Xbox going to do to sell in the face of that? Sit around making smartass comments while it falls farther behind?</div>

People who play games that don't have cartoons and furry creatures in them are still gamers. You should try ESPN football some time. Great control, great graphics and sound, and great competition from the AI and online opponents. It's certainly a much deeper, immersive game than Kirby's Air Ride or past versions of Mario Kart.

I don't think XBOX owners have anything to complain about this fall. Other gamers would make other choices, but here's what I'll be playing until next fall:
ESPN Football
Counter Strike
Top Spin
Deus Ex 2
Ninja Gaiden
Halo 2

OK, so this list isn't going to impress people who are addicted to JRPGs, mascot games, or dating simulators. So what?

[The Prince of Darkness]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Setting aside the Japanese market debacle for xbox; can it do enough in NA and elsewhere to pull itself out of third? Or is xbox getting ready to be buried this fall, finally and completely in third everywhere? Can Nintendo take the lead for second place in all territories?

Consider this fall: GC Price drop to $99, GBA to $69. Player's choice games have gone to $19.99 (Luigi, Pikmin, Starfox) and to $29.99 (Metroid, Sunshine, and Animal Crossing.)

Consider the GBA userbase. The GBA player on GC is not just a gimick devise; it is a true gaming pleasure, and with Final Fantasy Tactics and Sword of Mana dropping around the holiday season--these will be the perfect games to break in your GBA player with. This feature has opened a whole new world of gameplay for me.

And then the list of games set to land 4th qtr 03/1st qtr 04 are simply stellar, and most are highly recognized. Mario Kart, Rogue Squadron, 1080 Avalanche, Viewtiful Joe, Billy Hatcher, Metal Gear Solid, Twin Snakes, Kirby's Air-ride, Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, Tales of Symphonia, Pikmin II, and Harvest Moon. THESE ARE ALL EXCLUSIVE (And don't even include the tentatively scheduled Killer 7, Resident Evil 4, Geist, or Giftpia, Zelda, or Metroid II.) Not all of these games are hardcore adult games, but most have wide age-range appeal, existing fanbases, and they are FUN.

The xbox wish list is good, but it as distant as things like Geist and RE4 (Few big guns for xbox won't play on this Holiday's sales: Fable, Psychonauts, Halo II, Crimson Skies.) If they rush these games out before christmas, they will lack polish, and ultimately hurt xbox's rep.

And finally, Nintendo is sitting pretty this fall with multi-platform games including Prince of Persia, Star Craft Ghost, Beyond Good and Evil, True Crime, and XIII to name a few.

Whether or not any of you xbots like any of the numerous EXCLUSIVES I named for the gamecube (and the GBA player for FF Tactics and Mana) be objective here. These are games with fanbases, they are all going to be well executed, polished games. Please tell me, HOW is xbox going to compete against this?

Ninja Gaiden, if it comes out, can't do it alone. More PC ports like Counter Strike going to do it? And how is Otogi? I love Sega, and had hoped to hear some xbox fans talk about this? Is it no good, or did none of you buy it? No wonder Sega's dumping the box. I'd much rather lose a little support from Vivendi and Activision than to be losing support from virtually every major japanese developer.

Poor Xbox. Bye bye.</div>

Come on Gadfly---always the fatalist aren't you? First things first if you are talking about the fall then let's stick to the fall. How come you are allowed to talk about games like Final Fantasy, Metal Gear, Tales of Symphonia, Pikmin 2, and Harvest Moon and the Xbots can't bring up games like Halo2, Fable, Psychonauts, and Crimson Skies. The GC games listed on EB Games with a 2003 release date are as follows: Billy Hatcher, Viewtiful Joe, Kirby, Mario Party, 1080, Mario Kart, and Zelda 4 Swords. Sorry dude but that lineup will not scare anyone. Basically, the only thing on that list that will sell will be Mario Kart. The other question be whether all of those games will even make it out by the end of the year. The only thing that scares me about the GC this fall is the price drop---that is truly all that it has going for it---that and True Crime and Prince of Persia which the Xbox is getting too. In fact the Xbox is getting two multiplats that the GC is not even getting that have potential---GTA and ESPN Basketball. Oh that's right ESPN is a sports title so it does not count. Only in your world man. In my world I am glad to have that option. The other "options" that I am glad to have are these. Cue the drumroll because here comes an infamous Xbot list: Raw, Crimson Skies, Ghoulies, Top Spin, Amped 2, PGR2, Sega GT Online, Ninja Gaiden, Jedi Academy, Counter Strike, Kameo, and Dead Man's Hand. Sure some of those either won't make it out in time or won't pan out, but how is your list any better? You have your sports games in Top Spin, Amped, and ESPN. You have your driving options in PGR2 and Sega GT. You have platformers in Ghoulies, Kameo, and Voodoo Vince which I did not even mention before. You have your PC ports in Counter Strike and Jedi Academy. You have you cool multiplats in Prince of Persia, GTA, and True Crime which will probably look better on the Xbox and. Not to mention that GTA and True Crime will probably support the soundtrack option. You have an FPS with a twist in Dead Man's Hand. Finally, you have a GOTY candidate in Ninja Gaiden. For my money Gadfly your list looks pretty pale in comparison. Two more platformers in Billy Hatcher and Viewtiful Joe which will probably sell like ass btw. Another kiddy title in Kirby, and yet another Mario Party title. A Zelda port in 4 swords(that one is listed as 12/1 and we know what that means dude). A snowboarding game that the previews say is not that great in 1080. Finally that leaves us two cool multiplats, Mario Kart, and a price drop. Not so frightening afterall.

[trebor]

The Xbox Strikes Back...

Xbox Holiday Bundle
By Mike Viscel -- Staff Writer
Published 8:43 AM CDT, September 10, 2003

Microsoft will release a new holiday bundle to lure gamers to the Xbox.

The 2003 holiday season is expected to see price cuts and bundles in order to lure gamers to one console or another. Today we have learned that Microsoft plans on releasing a new holiday bundle on September 30th, 2003.

The new bundle will include an Xbox system, 2 free months of Xbox Live as well as two games: Star Wars Clone Wars and Tetris Worlds. The bundle will retail for $179.99 (USD).

Yup. The geniuses at M$ are continuing the tradition of bundling mediocre titles with their system. Ooohhh...Tetris Worlds - a true system seller right there. Only the power of X, right? And Clone Wars - the worst Star Wars game to come out in recent memory, with the exception of Obi-Wan - another Xbox flagship title.

Oh yeah a big, whopping 2 free months of Xbox live! How exciting is that? I'm really, ummm, enticed to spend $100 to set up broadband at my pad and pay for the $50 Xbox live kit now!

If that's the best M$ can do to lure gamers over, they will have a steep uphill battle indeed.

[The Prince of Darkness]

<div class=\"smallfont\">The Xbox Strikes Back...



Yup. The geniuses at M$ are continuing the tradition of bundling mediocre titles with their system. Ooohhh...Tetris Worlds - a true system seller right there. Only the power of X, right? And Clone Wars - the worst Star Wars game to come out in recent memory, with the exception of Obi-Wan - another Xbox flagship title.

Oh yeah a big, whopping 2 free months of Xbox live! How exciting is that? I'm really, ummm, enticed to spend $100 to set up broadband at my pad and pay for the $50 Xbox live kit now!

If that's the best M$ can do to lure gamers over, they will have a steep uphill battle indeed.</div>

Bundle their best games with the console like Nintendo does? That's not much smarter now is it? Face it Trebor---both companies have to give away the farm to compete at this point. At least if you don't give away your best games you can sell more software later. That is especially crucial for MS.

[Gadfly2317]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

Come on Gadfly---always the fatalist aren't you? </div>


Over all a pretty good response. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Obviously I'm GC biased; but I'd lay money that GC will out-sell xbox this fall, truly widening the distance and putting xbox in a true third place, and I'm pretty objective when it comes to my money.

[Richard Hobbes]

Gadfly,

Hmmm. The Xbox may get buried this Christmas by the GameCube and PS2, but the Xbox sure has some stellar titles coming by the end of the year and in the new year. All of us "Xbots" are looking forward to Halo 2, Fable, Sudeki, Morrowind Game of The Year Edition (which includes the two PC expansion packs), the GTA bundle (with GTA3 and Vice City), Doom III, Counter Strike, Deus Ex The Invisible War, and let us not forget BC. In Fable and BC alone I think the Xbox stands a good chance of having a game of the year title. Really it is just a matter of your gaming tastes.

I'm glad you love your GameCube, but what is the point of raining on the Xbox? I think all gamers will be happy that the summer dry spell is over. As an owner of all there systems I can tell you that there has not been much (with the exception of KOTOR) that has interested me this summer. I've finally got a game on the PS2 that has hooked me (Disgaea Hour of Darkness) and it looks like there may be some interesting GameCube titles (finally) coming too. I just don't buy into this "one system must own the others" crap. While some out there may think I've been converted to the dark side now that I've got an Xbox, nothing could be further from the truth. If anything, the Xbox has shown me that despite all the stuff I hate about the design of the PS2, there are still so many wonderful games to play on the system. I put down KOTOR to play Disgaea. Why? Because Disgaea has more interesting gameplay. So really (as I have said before) it all comes down to the games and your gaming tastes. Every system has its own great titles so why not leave it at that. Unless you're a home theater nut that just has to have Dolby 5.1 surround sound, all the consoles have their share of rockin games in the past and coming up.

[trebor]

Bundle their best games with the console like Nintendo does? That's not much smarter now is it? Face it Trebor---both companies have to give away the farm to compete at this point. At least if you don't give away your best games you can sell more software later. That is especially crucial for MS.

I think it's very smart to bundle in games people might actually want to play. Nintendo was smart to give away AAA titles w/system purchases - it sold systems.

If M$ was smart, they would lower the price of the Xbox to $149.99 and bundle in Halo. Not only would they sell more systems, their user base would be larger so when Halo 2 comes out, they would rake in huge amounts of cash (w/Halo 2's $60 price tag).

[The Prince of Darkness]

<div class=\"smallfont\">I think it's very smart to bundle in games people might actually want to play. Nintendo was smart to give away AAA titles w/system purchases - it sold systems.

If M$ was smart, they would lower the price of the Xbox to $149.99 and bundle in Halo. Not only would they sell more systems, their user base would be larger so when Halo 2 comes out, they would rake in huge amounts of cash (w/Halo 2's $60 price tag).</div>

Actually it is funny that you mention Halo. I am a numbers guy, not a marketing guy but here it goes. What about if MS bundled a Halo2 voucher with the Xbox for the holiday season. It would be an accounting nightmare, but it may sway some people.

[The Prince of Darkness]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>


Over all a pretty good response. I guess we'll just have to wait and see. Obviously I'm GC biased; but I'd lay money that GC will out-sell xbox this fall, truly widening the distance and putting xbox in a true third place, and I'm pretty objective when it comes to my money.</div>

Because I would bet that it is a wash between the two. The only thing that I would be sure of is that the PS2 outsells them both...combined.

[trebor]

Actually it is funny that you mention Halo. I am a numbers guy, not a marketing guy but here it goes. What about if MS bundled a Halo2 voucher with the Xbox for the holiday season. It would be an accounting nightmare, but it may sway some people.

It would never happen. I think it would be smarter to bundle Halo in, get new users hooked on it and then sell Halo 2 for, oh let's say, $70. Xboyz would grumble and complain, but they would still shell out the bucks for it.

I tell you what though, if M$ wanted me to purchase an Xbox, they would sell it for $149.99, bundle in 2 S-Controllers and a choice of a free game between Halo, KotOR or (fill in the blank with a AAA title). I would buy one the day that offer was available. But they won't, so I won't.

[sjsharky]

<div class=\"smallfont\">It would never happen. I think it would be smarter to bundle Halo in, get new users hooked on it and then sell Halo 2 for, oh let's say, $70. Xboyz would grumble and complain, but they would still shell out the bucks for it.

I tell you what though, if M$ wanted me to purchase an Xbox, they would sell it for $149.99, bundle in 2 S-Controllers and a choice of a free game between Halo, KotOR or (fill in the blank with a AAA title). I would buy one the day that offer was available. But they won't, so I won't.</div>

I've got a good idea. Why dont I just call up MS for you and see if they will GIVE you an Xbox, a gold one, and freedom to pick any 10 games of your choice also free of charge? How bout that? Dont give me the "I dont think I could find 10 games I would want on the Xbox" crap. I could say the same about the GC, thankfully it was a gift. That's also a good idea, maybe all of us here at VGR could get a collection together to buy ole Trebor an Xbox, that way he wouldnt feel guilty that he actually went out a purchased one himself.

As for not wanting to go online, dont knock it til you try it. I have given online a chance and find it very challenging/stimulating to play against(racing games) or in CO-OP(RTCW) with human opponents/teammates. It definitely adds a new dimension to the games. Stupid computer AI can only do so much.

BTW, I agree with RH in regards to the fact that each system has something to offer, although I feel that some have more to offer than others.

[Whaxx]

[QUOTE]I tell you what though, if M$ wanted me to purchase an Xbox, they would sell it for $149.99, bundle in 2 S-Controllers and a choice of a free game between Halo, KotOR or (fill in the blank with a AAA title). I would buy one the day that offer was available. But they won't, so I won't.[QUOTE]

AHAHA.......Trebor...here is something you must learn..2 S-controllers are worth like 4 GC controllers and one of its best games. And you also want Halo and KOTOR!! HA! Halo is worth Halo and Kotor would be like asking for MP, RE:0, Mario Sunshine, and Fox adventures! and it still wouldn't add up!!

["The Game"Evolution]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Setting aside the Japanese market debacle for xbox; can it do enough in NA and elsewhere to pull itself out of third? Or is xbox getting ready to be buried this fall, finally and completely in third everywhere? Can Nintendo take the lead for second place in all territories?

Consider this fall: GC Price drop to $99, GBA to $69. Player's choice games have gone to $19.99 (Luigi, Pikmin, Starfox) and to $29.99 (Metroid, Sunshine, and Animal Crossing.)

Consider the GBA userbase. The GBA player on GC is not just a gimick devise; it is a true gaming pleasure, and with Final Fantasy Tactics and Sword of Mana dropping around the holiday season--these will be the perfect games to break in your GBA player with. This feature has opened a whole new world of gameplay for me.

And then the list of games set to land 4th qtr 03/1st qtr 04 are simply stellar, and most are highly recognized. Mario Kart, Rogue Squadron, 1080 Avalanche, Viewtiful Joe, Billy Hatcher, Metal Gear Solid, Twin Snakes, Kirby's Air-ride, Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, Tales of Symphonia, Pikmin II, and Harvest Moon. THESE ARE ALL EXCLUSIVE (And don't even include the tentatively scheduled Killer 7, Resident Evil 4, Geist, or Giftpia, Zelda, or Metroid II.) Not all of these games are hardcore adult games, but most have wide age-range appeal, existing fanbases, and they are FUN.

The xbox wish list is good, but it as distant as things like Geist and RE4 (Few big guns for xbox won't play on this Holiday's sales: Fable, Psychonauts, Halo II, Crimson Skies.) If they rush these games out before christmas, they will lack polish, and ultimately hurt xbox's rep.

And finally, Nintendo is sitting pretty this fall with multi-platform games including Prince of Persia, Star Craft Ghost, Beyond Good and Evil, True Crime, and XIII to name a few.

Whether or not any of you xbots like any of the numerous EXCLUSIVES I named for the gamecube (and the GBA player for FF Tactics and Mana) be objective here. These are games with fanbases, they are all going to be well executed, polished games. Please tell me, HOW is xbox going to compete against this?

Ninja Gaiden, if it comes out, can't do it alone. More PC ports like Counter Strike going to do it? And how is Otogi? I love Sega, and had hoped to hear some xbox fans talk about this? Is it no good, or did none of you buy it? No wonder Sega's dumping the box. I'd much rather lose a little support from Vivendi and Activision than to be losing support from virtually every major japanese developer.

Poor Xbox. Bye bye.</div>

http://cube.ign.com/articles/437/437465p1.html

Chew on that link if you want a good laugh at a title that was supposed to make Xbox owners jealous with envy.(btw,Otagi for the Xboxscored an 8.5)

Now getting back to this craptacular post of Gadfly's.How can upcoming Xbox games like DOOM III,Deus EX:IW,Half Life 2,Halo 2,B.C.;etc makes the Xbox's chances of a great run limited? I mean lets take a look at this crap on the GC that you think will be something to be concerned about:

Mario Kart, Rogue Squadron, 1080 Avalanche, Viewtiful Joe, Billy Hatcher, Metal Gear Solid, Twin Snakes, Kirby's Air-ride, Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles, Tales of Symphonia, Pikmin II, and Harvest Moon. THESE ARE ALL EXCLUSIVE (And don't even include the tentatively scheduled Killer 7, Resident Evil 4, Geist, or Giftpia, Zelda, or Metroid II.)

Well we already know that Pikimin II is officially delayed till further notice.Metroid II is still on the drawing board,RS III will be a flash in the pan for about a month like most GC titles are,and the rest of the games here wont make much noise unless they are a bonafied Nintendo game.The truth.

Now you compare that to what the Xbox has coming on top of all of those other multiplatform games you mentioned and the Xbox is sitting pretty over the GC.Plus the Xbox has online sports games.The GC has none.Plus how many extras can be added to the GC's version of most of those games compared to the disc capacity that the Xbox's can hold? Not much.PS2 and Xbox will rule the GC during the holidays.Only two games will sell big for the GC during the holiday rush:Mario Kart and RS III.F-Zero might,but since the game has been labled as "TOO HARD!" by game critics people may stay clear of this game.

Plus other games like Mafia is coming to the Xbox not the GC.True Crime will support the Xbox's custom soundtrack making the game more appealing to Xbox owners than GC owners.(In other words parents wont be buying this for their kids for Xmas.LOL!) (Xbox's version and the PS2's version will outsell the GC's clearly)And the last time I checked at EB and Gamestop Ninja Gaiden is STILL slated for a November release.What GC game is going to give this game competition? RS III? LOL! Yeah,been there done that on the Atari 2600,The NES,The SNES,and the N64 with every other Star Wars game like this one.

Plus what RPG's is in the GC's future? What RPG on the GC can go toe to toe with KOTOR? Or Fable? Or True Fantasy? Or Sudeki? Good luck on that one.Plus with old NES classics like Castlevania,Bionic Commando,and Gradius going to the PS2 who really needs Nintendos hand me downs these days? Nobody really.

Plus the way the GC has been getting *****-slapped in the media and by other developers I would be singing their praises just yet."Rigor Mortis" is starting to set in the GC's lifespan.You better recognize the signs fast.

Right now the PS2 and the Xbox are running the show.The GC is being used for the opening act for the two headliners.Have doubts on what I'm saying? Just reflect back on that link I left for you Gadfly.

[Gadfly2317]

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

http://cube.ign.com/articles/437/437465p1.html

Chew on that link if you want a good laugh at a title that was supposed to make Xbox owners jealous with envy.(btw,Otagi for the Xboxscored an 8.5)

Right now the PS2 and the Xbox are running the show.The GC is being used for the opening act for the two headliners.Have doubts on what I'm saying? Just reflect back on that link I left for you Gadfly.</div>

Hmmm. . . I think it is interesting that you say PS2 and Xbox are running the show. The PS2 makes sense, but how do figure THIRD place xbox is running anything? Hell, as far as running the money show, last year actually had Nintendo running better percentage profits (rather than over all dollars taken in) over both PS2 and xbox.

Look, I like a lot of the xbox games coming up, even if they are PC ports. I want to play Fable and psychonauts. But PS2 has nothing to do with this, the struggle for second place between GC and Xbox. I'm just looking at factors, the price, the gameboy advantage, and a number of recognizable franchises coming out BEFORE xmas. All I'm saying is, odds are GC should do better this fall. We'll just have to wait and see.

And I've been saying for months all the best xbox stuff will get bumped to 2004, which frankly, makes it look like to me that 2004 will be the year of the xbox. So if Nintendo fails to do much business this fall, then it really is screwed when the mid 2004 xbox monster line-up starts rolling out.

Oh yeah, I didn't click on your link. Let me guess, it is a mediocre review for PNO3 talking about how it was almost really cool, but has poor control and repetitive gameplay? We've known this for months, you know, back when it released in Japan. I do understand your shock though at an exclusive Nintendo game turning out less than AAA. Pretty rare thing, huh? If the link was something else, let me know and I'll check it out.

[Zangoose, Furious]

Well, my predictions see PS2 in the top spot as always, with Xbox edging out sales over the GCN in the U.S., with the numbers flipped in Japan and Europe.

But honestly, people. Debating about "my system = t3h m4dd ro><><>orz and j00r system will D13" is getting a little more than stale around here. Isn't there anything else to talk about, or is everyone seemingly bent on creating drama, as if they were some preppy clique of gabby schoolgirls?

I doubt much is going to change in this round of the system wars, and to tell you the truth, it shouldn't even be a "War". The whole point of having competitors is so the industry doesn't get stale and that respective companies have a reason to try out innovative new ideas or push to utilize technology better than the next guy. Much like Hobbes, I am an owner of all three consoles, and I quite honestly think that system wars are a sorry excuse for a lack of funds. People seem bent on bashing others' consoles on account of, no doubt, jealousy. It seems like there's a revolving door of "well, if I can't have it, then it's not worthy of me anyway" types of comments, which is getting smellier than last week's gym socks.

Please, let's grow up, people, and quit with the elementary-school-level discussions of how System A is better than System B. I understand this is a system wars forum, but there has to be better things we can talk about. At the least, we can prevent news-wise threads from degenerating into cesspools of mediocrity and insults, much like this one. Is there really a reason to keep rubbing it in others' faces when nothing productive comes out of it?

[Richard Hobbes]

Hey Zangoose,

--- People seem bent on bashing others' consoles on
--- account of, no doubt, jealousy. It seems like there's
--- a revolving door of "well, if I can't have it, then it's
--- not worthy of me anyway" types of comments, which
--- is getting smellier than last week's gym socks.

Bingo. I agree. The entire "system war" debate is pointless. Seeing as how this thread has gone to the dogs anyway, I've got a question (for you or for anyone else): Who is Talim? (As in the "Talim Rocks", the anime character in the signature of Zangoose's posts.)

RH.

[T.Tashi]

Well I will say as all 3 systems near the end of their lives, the Xbox should fare the best. You can always milk a system for more power and in theory, Xbox should have the most longevity.

Talim is a SC fighter. :)

[Richard Hobbes]

T.Tashi,

--- Talim is a SC fighter

Thanks! I thought I was missing out on some cool new JRPG or something.

[Superboler]

I will be more than busy with PGR2(practicing my impending online supremacy), Crimson Skies, Rainbow six and Dead Man's Hand. Many of those are best of in their genres.

GC will be the bargain option and with all the surefire rehashes at greatest hits prices it will move a lot of product.

Don't forget MS is about where it wants to be. They want to stay comfortably in the race but they don't necessarily want to sell at PS2 levels, which I wouldn't expect for another two years, if ever. A billion dollars red ink is acceptable as advertising money. Moving into the 2-3 billion range would likely see reassessments.

["The Game"Evolution]

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Hmmm. . . I think it is interesting that you say PS2 and Xbox are running the show. The PS2 makes sense, but how do figure THIRD place xbox is running anything? Hell, as far as running the money show, last year actually had Nintendo running better percentage profits (rather than over all dollars taken in) over both PS2 and xbox.

Look, I like a lot of the xbox games coming up, even if they are PC ports. I want to play Fable and psychonauts. But PS2 has nothing to do with this, the struggle for second place between GC and Xbox. I'm just looking at factors, the price, the gameboy advantage, and a number of recognizable franchises coming out BEFORE xmas. All I'm saying is, odds are GC should do better this fall. We'll just have to wait and see.

And I've been saying for months all the best xbox stuff will get bumped to 2004, which frankly, makes it look like to me that 2004 will be the year of the xbox. So if Nintendo fails to do much business this fall, then it really is screwed when the mid 2004 xbox monster line-up starts rolling out.

Oh yeah, I didn't click on your link. Let me guess, it is a mediocre review for PNO3 talking about how it was almost really cool, but has poor control and repetitive gameplay? We've known this for months, you know, back when it released in Japan. I do understand your shock though at an exclusive Nintendo game turning out less than AAA. Pretty rare thing, huh? If the link was something else, let me know and I'll check it out.</div>

Care to compare both X-mas line ups between the Xbox and the GC? I'd love to.

[trebor]

I've got a good idea. Why dont I just call up MS for you and see if they will GIVE you an Xbox, a gold one, and freedom to pick any 10 games of your choice also free of charge? How bout that? Dont give me the &quot;I dont think I could find 10 games I would want on the Xbox&quot; crap. I could say the same about the GC, thankfully it was a gift. That's also a good idea, maybe all of us here at VGR could get a collection together to buy ole Trebor an Xbox, that way he wouldnt feel guilty that he actually went out a purchased one himself.

Did you even read my post? Given your response, I don't think you did. First off, I don't think $149.99 for an Xbox is unreasonable - it's currently $179.99 and I think M$ can afford to lose the extra $30 in leiu of getting more systems sold and therefore more software sold.

Secondly, I highly doubt I could find 10 games I would be willing to shell out $50 for on the Xbox - or any system for that matter. But where you are coming up with this "I don't think I could find 10 games I want on the Xbox" business you are talking about is a mystery to me. I never mentioned anything about finding 10 games or even 2 games.

Also, if you want to get a collection going to buy me an Xbox, go for it - I'll totally except. But don't do it because I wouldn't buy an Xbox otherwise, do it because I love receiving gifts - even crappy ones.

As for not wanting to go online, dont knock it til you try it. I have given online a chance and find it very challenging/stimulating to play against(racing games) or in CO-OP(RTCW) with human opponents/teammates. It definitely adds a new dimension to the games. Stupid computer AI can only do so much.

Back to that not reading my post thing again - I didn't mention online anywhere. If I had broadband at my pad, and an Xbox, I would be all over the Xbox live - so don't insult me by "explaining" why online is great. You think I would not see the benefit to playing against people over computer AI?

BTW, I agree with RH in regards to the fact that each system has something to offer, although I feel that some have more to offer than others.

Ditto. Weird that people can have differing opinions, though, huh?