Just how bad can the Xbox be? [Archive]

Vgamer

09-07-2003, 02:57 AM

The fact of the matter is not that Japan hates the American made system over there it is the fact that the games for the system are just not apealing to the audiance there. In the same news story it shows that the Gamecube is selling more than PS2 thanks to the release of Tales of Symphonia, a Japanese style console RPG. That is what appeals to them there, Music Games, quirky titles, dating sims, RPGs, Fighters etc.

Xbox's greatest strength is Xbox Live, which Japan is just not into. They don't play Halo or many FPS for that matter as we do. Many of the titles that have done very well here in the states just don't fly over there, and while they are still strugling to find that one killer app, the system sales there are slowly dropping to embarassing levels.

It is just that MS has had the hardest time trying to get any types of exclusive things going there because of the slow sales, which means less companies will program for the Xbox there and the cycle contnues. That doesn't mean they didn't try. Sega ported a ton of their top names over to Xbox (Crazy Taxi, Shenmue, PDO etc.) but even that did not lead them to sell Xboxes over there. They hit the nail on the head with DOAX and DOA 3, but not much else...

It also doesn't help that the PS2 sells much more and hence gets more of the exclusive games that they will buy (Dragon Quest, Final Fantasy, Castlevania, etc.). And with Gamecube picking up steam, I see Nintendo getting even more exclusives in the near future.

Now they are going to try to sell more american games there (untranslated to Japanese) to try to spur the sales there, and I am sure that it will not do them any good as well.There is only a small minority of Japanese gamers that want these US titles and they already own an Xbox there... Do the Japanese hate MS and the Xbox because it is american made? No, I don't think so, but until MS starts to secure some good exclusives in Japan (RPGs for one), you are not going to see this change, and from the article, it's only going to get worse. MS might leave Japan altogether, but I don't see that happening either, because it would mean that they would have to admit defeat there, and just doubt they will do that.

Tappy_Tibbons

09-07-2003, 05:22 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\">http://www.gamespot.com/all/news/news_6074679.html

650 units? How bad can the Xbox be? Or rather how much more prejudice can the Japanese be toward the "American devil" game system? Give me a break, this has nothing to do with how good or bad a system the Xbox is, there is an inherent prejudice running thru the Japanese culture. How else to explain 42,000 GBA SP's, 35,000+ PS2 and GCN sold and only 650 Xboxes. How utterly pathetic!

I have a good mind to do my civic duty as an American and boycott Japanese games. Microsoft should just disband their Japanese division for all the good its doing to be there.</div>

Damn right! I have a good mind to boycott all Japanese games as well. I probably won't even be picking up Ninja Gaiden now. Screw the Japanese. If they want to be non-tolerant to American culture then why must so much Anime crap come on tv here? How come we, as Americans have to be so tolerant to diversity yet it's perfectly acceptable for Japan to completely crap all over the Xbox, an all American product?

This is a tragedy IMO. MS couldn't have put out better hardware which totally crushes all other comers at this time and many epic style games that are on Xbox will never be possible on the other consoles. And people can claim it's because they aren't into American games, that very well may be the case, but if they aren't into American games so be it...but why don't the people on these boards quit getting so damn hot and bothered when someone says they hate Japanese games?!

No matter how much it pisses people off on these boards...here, in AMERICA, a Japanese game hits the top of the charts HOW OFTEN?! once? maybe twice a year? It does come down to ethnics and people's preference in games...but PS2 fanboys should also remember that their precious GTAs and other American games sell like crap in Japan as well...the only Japanese games that will sell good here in the near future are FFX2, GT4, and MGS3, mark my words.

If this winter goes by and Xbox doesn't sell you can bet I may very well be getting out of consoles forever. People put up with the LAZIEST standards from Sony and they buy it all up like it's crack when to me, who's been a gamer for all his life, considers 99% of PS2 games to be inferior in every way yes, even your precious SOCOM crap. If I wanted this lazy tech, I'd have it, oh nm, I had it 5 years ago, PS2 fanboys think the EYETOY is better than the music mixer. How fReaking retarded is that? A frikkin USB camera with 12 dumb minigames is better than importing mp3s and vids from a pc and making wacky slideshows and karaoke?? Sorry, I've had a webcam for years and I don't see the point in seeing me on the tv while I flail around doing simplistic tasks, I'd rather have a portable karaoke video machine myself.

So all in all according to most posters here, it's ok for the Japanese not to buy Xbox because "XBox has no good games" and "it's perfectly acceptable for the Japanese to be quirky" which is all a load of stinky dump imo...if tolerance doesn't work both ways it's not exactly tolerance is it? THe Japanese are stuck in the dark ages as far as REAL technology goes. How much longer will they sit there and accept AI and linear point A to point B crap before they wake up and smell the online revolution and actually not be secluded losers who only have the mental capacity to play with themselves? People who are denying the online revolution in consoles are denying themselves because 5 years down the road, I guarantee you most to all games will have some online component...excuse me and everyone else with LIVE for being WAY ahead of the mainstream dumbasses.

THe Japanese can buy a billion Gameboys as far as I care but the truth in the matter is the GBA is a Nintendo cash cow that is lazy tech they will milk because in this day and age...seriously, HOW HARD IS IT TO PROGRAM A 2d SIDE SCROLLER? Or port SMB3 an 8 BIT TITLE to GBA?...I actually hope that Sony's PSP DESTROYS the GBA because Nintendo is just too damn lazy.

Gaming Geezer 78

09-07-2003, 07:26 AM

Damn right! I have a good mind to boycott all Japanese games as well. I probably won't even be picking up Ninja Gaiden now. Screw the Japanese. If they want to be non-tolerant to American culture then why must so much Anime crap come on tv here? How come we, as Americans have to be so tolerant to diversity yet it's perfectly acceptable for Japan to completely crap all over the Xbox, an all American product?

This is a tragedy IMO. MS couldn't have put out better hardware which totally crushes all other comers at this time and many epic style games that are on Xbox will never be possible on the other consoles. And people can claim it's because they aren't into American games, that very well may be the case, but if they aren't into American games so be it...but why don't the people on these boards quit getting so damn hot and bothered when someone says they hate Japanese games?!

No matter how much it pisses people off on these boards...here, in AMERICA, a Japanese game hits the top of the charts HOW OFTEN?! once? maybe twice a year? It does come down to ethnics and people's preference in games...but PS2 fanboys should also remember that their precious GTAs and other American games sell like crap in Japan as well...the only Japanese games that will sell good here in the near future are FFX2, GT4, and MGS3, mark my words.

If this winter goes by and Xbox doesn't sell you can bet I may very well be getting out of consoles forever. People put up with the LAZIEST standards from Sony and they buy it all up like it's crack when to me, who's been a gamer for all his life, considers 99% of PS2 games to be inferior in every way yes, even your precious SOCOM crap. If I wanted this lazy tech, I'd have it, oh nm, I had it 5 years ago, PS2 fanboys think the EYETOY is better than the music mixer. How fReaking retarded is that? A frikkin USB camera with 12 dumb minigames is better than importing mp3s and vids from a pc and making wacky slideshows and karaoke?? Sorry, I've had a webcam for years and I don't see the point in seeing me on the tv while I flail around doing simplistic tasks, I'd rather have a portable karaoke video machine myself.

So all in all according to most posters here, it's ok for the Japanese not to buy Xbox because "XBox has no good games" and "it's perfectly acceptable for the Japanese to be quirky" which is all a load of stinky dump imo...if tolerance doesn't work both ways it's not exactly tolerance is it? THe Japanese are stuck in the dark ages as far as REAL technology goes. How much longer will they sit there and accept AI and linear point A to point B crap before they wake up and smell the online revolution and actually not be secluded losers who only have the mental capacity to play with themselves? People who are denying the online revolution in consoles are denying themselves because 5 years down the road, I guarantee you most to all games will have some online component...excuse me and everyone else with LIVE for being WAY ahead of the mainstream dumbasses.

THe Japanese can buy a billion Gameboys as far as I care but the truth in the matter is the GBA is a Nintendo cash cow that is lazy tech they will milk because in this day and age...seriously, HOW HARD IS IT TO PROGRAM A 2d SIDE SCROLLER? Or port SMB3 an 8 BIT TITLE to GBA?...I actually hope that Sony's PSP DESTROYS the GBA because Nintendo is just too damn lazy.

Wow...whine, whine, complain, complain. Do you want some cheese to go along with that whine?

You Xbots just don't get it do you? The power of hardware has nothing to do with the games. And games is what sells systems. Xbox has no games that appeal to the Japanese gamers out there. Japanese gamers not buying Xbox & Xbox games is no more prejudice on their part then not buying PC games. They don't like them. Would you buy a pack of liver at the grocery store even though you don't like it? Quit being a retard.

Your entire rant against PS2 owners & the games on the system is a moot point. In Japan, PS2 has games that appeal to the Japanese audience. In America, PS2 has games that appeal to the American audience. It's as simple as that.

Now you want to cry a river and say you will get out the console gaming when Xbox doesn't sell like mad this winter...which it won't BTW. Your opinions are your opinions. I prefer games on PS2 and Gamecube to most of the Xbox games. In fact, with the exception of Halo and a few others, the games I love on Xbox are Japanese games!

Then you bash EyeToy. What do you care? The point of EyeToy is that it is a new idea. An innovation in the console games industry. Xbox Music Mixer is just a Karaoke machine. Big deal. What's worse, looking like a fool on screen or sounding like a fool? It all boils down to who wants what? Who the F are you to say EyeToy is crap and Karaoke is "da bomb?" Loser!

What is this tolerance crap you are spewing? Nobody tells you to watch anime. Nobody tells you to play games made in Japan. Where do you get off bashing a culture and their tastes you sad, pathetic little whiner? Whether or not online catches on big is irrelevant. Not everyone wants to play online. Not even all the "high-brow," technologically superior Xbots out there. That's why only 8% of Xbox owners are online with Live!

Just like all your fellow Xbots, you cannot see that the quality of a game isn't determined by bump-mapping and pixel shading. Xbox games can look better than anything else out there, but most of the games are soul-less, redundant, cheap boring derivative drivel that tries it's best to emulate what everyone else is doing. Boring, lazy, no-fun games.

I hope you quit console gaming you little ass. Everyone is tired of hearing you whine about Xbox not selling well. Face it, Xbox is #3 behind Gamecube. And that gap only looks to get wider with Xbox selling a whopping 650 systems in a week! LOFL!:eek:

slade

09-07-2003, 07:41 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\">The fact of the matter is not that Japan hates the American made system over there it is the fact that the games for the system are just not apealing to the audiance there. In the same news story it shows that the Gamecube is selling more than PS2 thanks to the release of Tales of Symphonia, a Japanese style console RPG. That is what appeals to them there, Music Games, quirky titles, dating sims, RPGs, Fighters etc. </div>

Agreed. The GC hadn't exactly been selling well either until recently when they picked up two RPG's in Final Fantasy and Tales of Symphonia. The latter of which is apprently one of the top three RPG's in Japan.

If MS wants the same type of sales, they'll need the same brandname RPG's and, no, going to a European developer and asking them to immitate Japanese artstyle within an RPG like Sudeki is probably not going to work.

Gaming Geezer 78

09-07-2003, 07:47 AM

Agreed. The GC hadn't exactly been selling well either until recently when they picked up two RPG's in Final Fantasy and Tales of Symphonia. The latter of which is apprently one of the top three RPG's in Japan.

If MS wants the same type of sales, they'll need the same brandname RPG's and, no, going to a European developer and asking them to immitate Japanese artstyle within an RPG like Sudeki is probably not going to work.

They don't get it that games are what make a system sell well. To them, bump-mapping and HDTV support are "da bomb" and the only reason to buy a game. That's why they have a bunch of tech-demos as Tappy himself called Dead Or Alive 3. Pretty, yet ultimately shallow.

The same reason why Tappy and his bretheren go off on Gameboy Advance games. They can't get it through their thick-ass craniums that gameplay is king. They can't fathom that it's more fun to play Super Mario Bros. 2 on Gameboy Advance than 90% of the Xbox games out there. It has nothing to do with 2D or 3D. But telling them that is like talking to a brick wall. :o

Tappy_Tibbons

09-07-2003, 08:17 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\">They don't get it that games are what make a system sell well. To them, bump-mapping and HDTV support are "da bomb" and the only reason to buy a game. That's why they have a bunch of tech-demos as Tappy himself called Dead Or Alive 3. Pretty, yet ultimately shallow.

The same reason why Tappy and his bretheren go off on Gameboy Advance games. They can't get it through their thick-ass craniums that gameplay is king. They can't fathom that it's more fun to play Super Mario Bros. 2 on Gameboy Advance than 90% of the Xbox games out there. It has nothing to do with 2D or 3D. But telling them that is like talking to a brick wall. :o</div>

You know why I can't fathom it's fun to play SMB games on GBA? BECAUSE I PLAYED THEM 10 YEARS AGO YOU FRIKKIN CAUGHT IN THE PAST MORON! I'll never understand these old school trends...Im sure not everyone has played those games but I have...finished all Mario games excluding Sunshine of course. Why don't you whip out your Magnavox Odyssey and play some frikkin Pong?

slade

09-07-2003, 08:26 AM

Gamer, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Notice how Tappy went on about how you couldn't compare still shots of the game in your thread comparing Soul Calibur and Soul Calibur 2 and then two days later he's posting still shots of GTA and saying they look better then the PS2 version.

There's just no consistency in these arguments anymore.

Gaming Geezer 78

09-07-2003, 08:27 AM

You know why I can't fathom it's fun to play SMB games on GBA? BECAUSE I PLAYED THEM 10 YEARS AGO YOU FRIKKIN CAUGHT IN THE PAST MORON! I'll never understand these old school trends...Im sure not everyone has played those games but I have...finished all Mario games excluding Sunshine of course. Why don't you whip out your Magnavox Odyssey and play some frikkin Pong?

You are truly an idiot. You see, most intelligent gamers don't let the fact of a games age determine whether or not it is a good game. By your logic, there is no reason to watch Close Encounter Of The Third Kind because it is 25 years old. There is no reason to watch Conan The Barbarian because it is 20 years old. And there is no reason to watch any other movie that is old. In your twisted logic, because something is old means it is no good anymore.

If I had an Odysey, I would probably play it. The same reason I play games on my old systems today. What a pathetic, shallow gaming existence you must have to be so wrapped up like a whore over Xbox graphics that you can't see a good game on any other system.

Well, I look forward to making you look like a fool until the holidays. After that, you will be gone according to your post above. After all, Xbox sales will tank even further by then. :cool:

Gadfly2317

09-07-2003, 09:10 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

You know why I can't fathom it's fun to play SMB games on GBA? BECAUSE I PLAYED THEM 10 YEARS AGO YOU FRIKKIN CAUGHT IN THE PAST MORON! I'll never understand these old school trends...Im sure not everyone has played those games but I have...finished all Mario games excluding Sunshine of course. Why don't you whip out your Magnavox Odyssey and play some frikkin Pong?</div>

Hey, yo, I played Chess over ten years ago!!! Damn those oldschool trends. Quit living in the past!

And dude, I'm the one who had the Maganavox Odyssey, not Gamer.

And one other thing about your stupid Go-USA lets boycott the japanese; its not even about that. There are plenty of things Japanese that Americans don't get into. Games, gadgets and Anime, though, are something we dig about their culture. Along with Tea (nothing like a good cup of shade grown Sencha.)

The japanese love our fashion and film, and American Retro items. They come over to California Flea-Markets, swarm them literally with duffle bags, and load up on as much American kitsch as possible to take back to Japan with them. So stop acting like it is Japanese Anti-American xenophobia that is causing the xbox its problems. The problem is the xbox caters to a narrow range of gaming tastes--basically the kind of gun-flag-porn redneck American who would start boycotting japanese things they love because their stupid videogame system wasn't selling well abroad.

Tappy_Tibbons

09-07-2003, 10:18 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\">You are truly an idiot. You see, most intelligent gamers don't let the fact of a games age determine whether or not it is a good game. By your logic, there is no reason to watch Close Encounter Of The Third Kind because it is 25 years old. There is no reason to watch Conan The Barbarian because it is 20 years old. And there is no reason to watch any other movie that is old. In your twisted logic, because something is old means it is no good anymore.

If I had an Odysey, I would probably play it. The same reason I play games on my old systems today. What a pathetic, shallow gaming existence you must have to be so wrapped up like a whore over Xbox graphics that you can't see a good game on any other system.

Well, I look forward to making you look like a fool until the holidays. After that, you will be gone according to your post above. After all, Xbox sales will tank even further by then. :cool:</div>

Intelligent gamers don't play PS2. 2nd of all intelligent gamers evolve with the times. We don't care to play old NES game remakes because we wasted enough of our lives away in the past playing them. And you are putting words in my mouth because games used to be ugly pixelated mess...even movies from the 1920's had images that were lifelike(though black and white) so if all you can do to debate me is go OT then YOU are the idiot. You can't compare games to movies because you don't manipulate the images on movies.

Shallow gaming existence? WTF geezer? What do you consider deep diversity? I think people like you who still play even a PS1 are pathetic. Been there, done that. Im a CONSUMER, I consume one thing then move on to the next, much like a parasite moves from host to host. I don't care for the simplistic programming of AI anymore, it's all patterns. If you'd rather not be playing online then you lack skill and you're ashamed of yourself...why not just admit it? You think I care about graphics? Why don't you go digging in the old vgr forums for ONE INSTANCE where I bring up bump mapping or pixel shaders...can't do it can you? See, if you were a REAL gamer you'd care about something called FRAMERATE. For example...the framerate and POPUP in the ps2 GTAs ruined them for me...you can't aim a frikkin sniper rifle because if you barely move the analog stick to the side you chop about 2 inches further than you wanted to therefore rendering the game UNPLAYABLE simple as that. And I have an Odyssey up in my attic, it runs off of batteries and has 3 knobs on each side of the console with several games built in. Can't get any more old school than that. So I have the oldest and the newest, just goes to show you I'm more old school than you because I have a pong machine you dirty bastard! I don't play it anymore though, what's the point? It only works in 2 player. I'll sell it to you for 10,000$.

This is the paragraph where I'm supposed to act like I won the debate but I don't see the point in declaring anything because you are like a dumb 17 year old...you know everything and nobody can tell you &*$%. You spout nothing but feces and bs off so I always win. The more PS2s Sony sells the dumber the planet gets.

Tappy_Tibbons

09-07-2003, 10:30 AM

and I suppose also "by your logic" I hate old music to eh? Actually, I hate NEW music and all I listen to is classic rock. O, that's OT...kinda like bringing up movies.

sjsharky

09-07-2003, 10:32 AM

The fact that there are no games that appeal to the Japanese audiences only further confirms the fact the Japanese hold a prejudice. If Konami, Capcom, place Japanese game developer here wont support the Xbox in Japan with games that appeal to their own culture, then that is evidence enough of an undermining scheme.

Dont give me the argument that the Xbox is not selling well over there, so they wont develop games for the system. It is the other way around. Game companies begin developing games for systems well before they are on the market without prior knowledge to how well the system will sell. Where were those games, Konami, Capcom, insert company? And with the impressive sales in North America and Europe, it should show that the Xbox is a viable system. But no, the Japanese will protect their own, PS2/GCN, and apparently that is OK. While in America, you will be branded a bigot and a racist to hold those values.

Say what you will about "whining xbots", Geezer, I could care less, I still have all the games that I want and play, this is on another level completely, not about who is in 3rd. Those sales numbers are an outrage. The Xbox is definitely not 1:50 piece of turd, when comparing to the PS2.

As far as I'm concerned this is a culture clash and the Japanese are doing their best to destroy what is not part of their own culture, Xbox,both from the developer side and consumer side, that in my book, is Bulls**t. It is getting to the point that if this persists I may just give up on the Japanese, dont play their JRPG's anyway, and stick to what games I already have, and I have plenty to keep me busy. Why give my money to these "foreign" companies, it seems this is how they think over there.

slade

09-07-2003, 11:32 AM

Dont give me the argument that the Xbox is not selling well over there, so they wont develop games for the system. It is the other way around. Game companies begin developing games for systems well before they are on the market without prior knowledge to how well the system will sell. Where were those games, Konami, Capcom, insert company? And with the impressive sales in North America and Europe, it should show that the Xbox is a viable system. But no, the Japanese will protect their own, PS2/GCN, and apparently that is OK. While in America, you will be branded a bigot and a racist to hold those values.

Capcom, Konami, Namco and Sega have all supported the X-box to some degree and have had sales of their titles flounder. You also need to know that the X-box demographic is pretty much made up of American tastes, FPS's and Racers are in abundance on the console for a reason. Some, like Konami have even given X-box more support then GC. In any case, it's wrong to assume that these companies haven't supported X-box. They have been tentative in supporting X-box but only because it's a new console and has floundered in their homeland.

Now look at what's helping GC's surge in sales, it's an RPG. Just how many JRPG's are on X-box? The closest you can come to something even remotely appealing to Japanese tastes is DOAXBV which is a relationship simulator and other crap all rolled into a game. And lo and behold, when that game came out, X-box beat GC in weekly sales.

Oh and Tappy, this isn't organized religion. Get a grip and stop preaching about the supposed evils of Sony.

sjsharky

09-07-2003, 11:11 PM

<div class=\"smallfont\">Capcom, Konami, Namco and Sega have all supported the X-box to some degree and have had sales of their titles flounder. You also need to know that the X-box demographic is pretty much made up of American tastes, FPS's and Racers are in abundance on the console for a reason. Some, like Konami have even given X-box more support then GC. In any case, it's wrong to assume that these companies haven't supported X-box. They have been tentative in supporting X-box but only because it's a new console and has floundered in their homeland.

Now look at what's helping GC's surge in sales, it's an RPG. Just how many JRPG's are on X-box? The closest you can come to something even remotely appealing to Japanese tastes is DOAXBV which is a relationship simulator and other crap all rolled into a game. And lo and behold, when that game came out, X-box beat GC in weekly sales.

Oh and Tappy, this isn't organized religion. Get a grip and stop preaching about the supposed evils of Sony.</div>

If these companies are indeed supporting the Xbox as you say, then where are these JRPG's for the Xbox, even if it would be cross-platform, where are they? Are you saying MS is telling them they dont want these games for their system? I highly doubt that considering that is the one genre the Xbox is sorely lacking in. So again my point is made, these companies are not putting their most sincere efforts into supporting this system in their home country.

Cugel

09-08-2003, 12:36 AM

Twelve

09-08-2003, 01:35 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\">Your entire rant against PS2 owners & the games on the system is a moot point. In Japan, PS2 has games that appeal to the Japanese audience. In America, PS2 has games that appeal to the American audience. It's as simple as that.
</div>

AND, Sony releases game in Europe that appeal to the European market. Releasing Silent Hill 3 first in Europe was ace, and you can't go wrong if you give Europeans a ton of soccer games.

However, it needs to be said that the anti-American sentiment in Japan is certainly a factor. I think that if the Xbox had better games that Japan can overcome this sentiment, but as it is, it's a double whammy.

When we look at the Xbox in Japan, we're looking at a businees disgrace. Microsoft stubbornly refuses to pull the plug, and so we get to laugh at these embarrassing numbers. It all started in the beginning, with the disfunctioning hardware units. There was a minor peak with ORTA, but it's been major downhill since then. Perhaps Sudeki will give them a bit of sunlight again.

But, you know...who cares about Japan, right?

12

slade

09-08-2003, 04:09 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\"><div class=\"smallfont\"></div>

If these companies are indeed supporting the Xbox as you say, then where are these JRPG's for the Xbox, even if it would be cross-platform, where are they? Are you saying MS is telling them they dont want these games for their system? I highly doubt that considering that is the one genre the Xbox is sorely lacking in. So again my point is made, these companies are not putting their most sincere efforts into supporting this system in their home country.</div>

There will be Factor 5's True Fantasy Online but other then that there are no JRPG's aside from a short pointless Suikoden 3 rumor early this year. Anyways, they don't have to give them J-RPG's to show support. Capcom has given them Genma Onimusha, Steel Battalion, MvC2, CvS2EO and Dino Crisis 3. Konami's given them MGS2 Substance, Silent Hill 2, and Air Force Delta Storm. Namco's given them Dead to Rights, Soul Calibur 2 and various multiplat titles planned for the future. Sega practically gave X-box most of their titles last year and I hope I don't have to point out Tecmo.

In almost all these cases, the games lagged behind in sales and it wasn't the fault of the publishers. Notice that Nintendo had to put up with two years of bad sales in Japan before they got a few RPG's. In their case, the only reason they got one of them is because they were able to use the GBA as a tool against Squaresoft and the other for pimping their characters out to other development studios. MS, on the other hand, has said that they won't be paying for exclusives anymore and lo and behold, Japanese development on that console is grinding to a hault.

Getting Enix support was out of the question for both MS and Nintendo because an Enix spokesperson had made the statement that they would only support the console that was the market leader in terms of sales. And Enix has always been focused in Japan. So, for them to release a game on X-box, the X-box had to do better in Japan first.

Finally, here's the parallel I drew above for you. MS needed to show that it could support sales of Japanese titles in Japan. It showed that it couldn't with comparative titles selling a lot more on the PS2. The surge in sales it usually got died down in about a week and there haven't exactly been a steady stream of releases in Japan. From what I've heard on the Magic Box boards, X-box in Japan is akin to GC in Europe. Both companies are extremely slow in releasing titles in the two territories.

Gaming Geezer 78

09-08-2003, 07:12 AM

Intelligent gamers don't play PS2. 2nd of all intelligent gamers evolve with the times. We don't care to play old NES game remakes because we wasted enough of our lives away in the past playing them. And you are putting words in my mouth because games used to be ugly pixelated mess...even movies from the 1920's had images that were lifelike(though black and white) so if all you can do to debate me is go OT then YOU are the idiot. You can't compare games to movies because you don't manipulate the images on movies.

Shallow gaming existence? WTF geezer? What do you consider deep diversity? I think people like you who still play even a PS1 are pathetic. Been there, done that. Im a CONSUMER, I consume one thing then move on to the next, much like a parasite moves from host to host. I don't care for the simplistic programming of AI anymore, it's all patterns. If you'd rather not be playing online then you lack skill and you're ashamed of yourself...why not just admit it? You think I care about graphics? Why don't you go digging in the old vgr forums for ONE INSTANCE where I bring up bump mapping or pixel shaders...can't do it can you? See, if you were a REAL gamer you'd care about something called FRAMERATE. For example...the framerate and POPUP in the ps2 GTAs ruined them for me...you can't aim a frikkin sniper rifle because if you barely move the analog stick to the side you chop about 2 inches further than you wanted to therefore rendering the game UNPLAYABLE simple as that. And I have an Odyssey up in my attic, it runs off of batteries and has 3 knobs on each side of the console with several games built in. Can't get any more old school than that. So I have the oldest and the newest, just goes to show you I'm more old school than you because I have a pong machine you dirty bastard! I don't play it anymore though, what's the point? It only works in 2 player. I'll sell it to you for 10,000$.

This is the paragraph where I'm supposed to act like I won the debate but I don't see the point in declaring anything because you are like a dumb 17 year old...you know everything and nobody can tell you &*$%. You spout nothing but feces and bs off so I always win. The more PS2s Sony sells the dumber the planet gets.

Intelligent gamers don't play PS2? I would like to see 54+ million people kick your ass for that statement. I guess the world is full of stupid people? What-with them ignoring the "oh-so-powerful" Xbox?

You wasted enough of your life playing NES games? Gee-if it was so painful for you and a waste of time, why did you do it? You are the biggest hypocrite I have ever listened to. "Games used to be an ugly, pixelated mess." Again, you show what a graphics whore you are with your stupid-ass statements. It's all the same with you Xbots-graphics first, gameplay...well, who the hell cares about gameplay when we have bump-mapping! MORON!

And now...anyone who plays anything besides Xbox including PS1 games is-and I quote you-"PATHETIC?" Also, I don't need to look on the old forums to see you are a ho for graphics, you spout enough of it on this new board!:o

Tappy_Tibbons

09-08-2003, 09:49 AM

<div class=\"smallfont\">Intelligent gamers don't play PS2? I would like to see 54+ million people kick your ass for that statement. I guess the world is full of stupid people? What-with them ignoring the "oh-so-powerful" Xbox?

You wasted enough of your life playing NES games? Gee-if it was so painful for you and a waste of time, why did you do it? You are the biggest hypocrite I have ever listened to. "Games used to be an ugly, pixelated mess." Again, you show what a graphics whore you are with your stupid-ass statements. It's all the same with you Xbots-graphics first, gameplay...well, who the hell cares about gameplay when we have bump-mapping! MORON!

And now...anyone who plays anything besides Xbox including PS1 games is-and I quote you-"PATHETIC?" Also, I don't need to look on the old forums to see you are a ho for graphics, you spout enough of it on this new board!:o</div>

so I'm not allowed to have an opinion? I never mentioned ANYWHERE that I think GC owners are pathetic because at least GC has some fun titles...not boring, ugly, simplistic crap with long load times. The only knock I have against GC is that Nintendo won't take it online. And I will always consider the PS2 to be the POS2 because that's just what it is. It's nothing but a hype machine that has sold millions of units due to ignorance. Most people to this day don't even know that Xbox doesn't require memory cards because MS has HORRIBLY advertised the Xbox...while PS2 is the lamest of the lame as far as the actual console, the advertising is much better pulled off...hell, they can even make a steaming pile like Gameday 2004 or numerous other Sony 1st party utter failures look appealing. MS still acts like they are petrified to brag about the features of Xbox like the entire populous who buys video games are geeks who are gonna say "I'd rather buy a memory card" or, "I already have a PC" or, "the XBox is really just a PC in a box" when the truth is the HDD features which were never even brought up are going to be nulled out because Sony is bringing a HDD of thier own...MS's last chance to capitalize on Sony's weakness is to rub in the consumers face that the Xbox HDD is free and the Sony HDD will be expensive and featureless(like you can't even use it to save older games which were designed only with the memory card in mind...PATHETIC). These are all FACTS here whether you like it or not. While you'd rather "spin" all day and bring up sales and opinions, it is a FACT that the Sony HDD will NOT save games for ANY older PS2 games.

Sorry if you have a short attention span and you never get through your new games so you have to go back and try to finish your old ones again. Sorry if I have the ability to buy a single 50$ Xbox game and put 1000+ hours into it which I have already done with at least 3, Return to Castle Wolfenstien, Unreal Championship, and of course Halo. Sorry that PS2 is full of 10 hour games that you finish and never want to play again but I don't have time for those types life it too short I'd rather play something with a point and something that will make me feel as if my $ was well spent. Looking at your collection, you sure have squandered away your money on a lot of crap titles(not only for PS2, but plenty of crap Xbox titles as well). I'll bet you're neck high in debt and work your ass off don't you?.

Maybe I was a bit too harsh on the old school players but IMO I see old school gaming as a complete waste of time as long as the game has already been completed. When I play a game so much that I know what to expect and basically memorize the whole experience it loses it's entire point and it's just not fun anymore. Even Halo itself I don't play anymore because I've seen all it has to offer, point blank, to me, Halo pretty much SUCKS now IMO ok I get nauseated if my friends want to play Halo...unless it's co-op lengendary which exceeds any experience in any other FPS and probably won't be knocked off until Halo2.

sjsharky

09-08-2003, 12:09 PM

From Slade:
Finally, here's the parallel I drew above for you. MS needed to show that it could support sales of Japanese titles in Japan. It showed that it couldn't with comparative titles selling a lot more on the PS2. The surge in sales it usually got died down in about a week and there haven't exactly been a steady stream of releases in Japan. From what I've heard on the Magic Box boards, X-box in Japan is akin to GC in Europe. Both companies are extremely slow in releasing titles in the two territories

Of course the PS2 is going to sell more comparative titles, its been out longer and has a larger installed base. Also in your previous post you said GC only picked up sales with the recent release of a JRPG. So if you need to appeal to the Japanese public you dont give them games they can already get on a machine they already have, you need to give them something else, ie ORTA. Assuming what you said about sales picking up for the Xbox after that was released are true, then once again I ask where are the games that appeal to the Japanese public.

The only game you mentioned that would fall in that category would be SB, but that game cost $200 how many systems is that going to move? Dino Crisis 3 and DTR would be more appealing to the American public that is why the Xbox got those games first/exclusively and all the others were already out on the PS2. Where are the quirky Japanese titles the Japanese so love? I dont care if its a Mad Maestro, a dating sim, Mr Misquito, or JRPG game they are not supporting it the way it needs to be supported in Japan in order to install a user base.

slade

09-08-2003, 12:31 PM

Tappy's filled with rage against Sony and especially their PS2. It's not an uncommon disposition found among former DC owners that blame PS2 for DC's failure.

trebor

09-08-2003, 12:43 PM

650 units? How bad can the Xbox be? Or rather how much more prejudice can the Japanese be toward the "American devil" game system? Give me a break, this has nothing to do with how good or bad a system the Xbox is, there is an inherent prejudice running thru the Japanese culture. How else to explain 42,000 GBA SP's, 35,000+ PS2 and GCN sold and only 650 Xboxes. How utterly pathetic!

I have a good mind to do my civic duty as an American and boycott Japanese games. Microsoft should just disband their Japanese division for all the good its doing to be there.

I know of some neo-conservative, right-wing, fascist, crack-pot websites you might have better luck with, rather than on this particular forum.

Here is something to ponder, the Japanese love American culture - they love our movies, tv shows, music, clothes, etc. So I doubt the Japanese are conciously against the Xbox, merely because it is from America. More likely, the game selection and the size of the Xbox unit itself is unappealing to them. The Japanese love their little gadgets, so the big ugly Xbox probably turns them off.

Oh, and the game library sucks too. Maybe that has something to do with it.

slade

09-08-2003, 12:49 PM

From Slade:
Of course the PS2 is going to sell more comparative titles, its been out longer and has a larger installed base. Also in your previous post you said GC only picked up sales with the recent release of a JRPG. So if you need to appeal to the Japanese public you dont give them games they can already get on a machine they already have, you need to give them something else, ie ORTA. Assuming what you said about sales picking up for the Xbox after that was released are true, then once again I ask where are the games that appeal to the Japanese public.

But the argument from the X-box camp has always been about X-box's technical merits. And neither Konami nor Capcom was stingy about adding extras into games like SH2 and Genma Onimusha. Both of which did very well in Japan on PS2. In any event, many of Sega's games like Gunvalkyrie, Toe Jam and Earl 3, House of the Dead 3, Sega GT2002 and others weren't available on other systems. Neither was Tecmo's DOA games nor Capcom's recent Dino Crisis 3 and the future Group S Challenge nor From Software's Murakumo or Otogi. Even Namco's DTR's was a time exclusive on X-box. Isn't that a suitable enough base for a start? And when Sega's titles on GC sell a hell of a lot more in Japan and in other territories, why would they want to continue this support. Of course, their withdrawal would only entice other Japanese developers away. The failing again lies with MS and the X-box.

The only game you mentioned that would fall in that category would be SB, but that game cost $200 how many systems is that going to move? Dino Crisis 3 and DTR would be more appealing to the American public that is why the Xbox got those games first/exclusively and all the others were already out on the PS2. Where are the quirky Japanese titles the Japanese so love? I dont care if its a Mad Maestro, a dating sim, Mr Misquito, or JRPG game they are not supporting it the way it needs to be supported in Japan in order to install a user base.

SB would be less enticing then DTR and DC3 I believe. Dino Crisis is one of Capcom's popular survival horror series from the PSX days. DTR's is an action title akin to Sega's Rent A Hero series. And these games do enjoy some moderate success.

In the end, MS needs to prove that they are dedicated to this market and cut deals like Nintendo is doing. Tales of Symphonia ended up on GC and not PS2 for a reason.

sjsharky

09-08-2003, 01:40 PM

<div class=\"smallfont\">I know of some neo-conservative, right-wing, fascist, crack-pot websites you might have better luck with, rather than on this particular forum.

Here is something to ponder, the Japanese love American culture - they love our movies, tv shows, music, clothes, etc. So I doubt the Japanese are conciously against the Xbox, merely because it is from America. More likely, the game selection and the size of the Xbox unit itself is unappealing to them. The Japanese love their little gadgets, so the big ugly Xbox probably turns them off.

Oh, and the game library sucks too. Maybe that has something to do with it.</div>

Why dont you post the websites for me, so I can stop wasting my time here on VGR, you a$$? Oh, and the game library sucks too. Where do you live trebor, Japan? Have you even bothering reading thru this thread or did you just pick out what you wanted to reply to with your oh so dim, er, quick-witted comeback?

The Japanese love their little gadgets do they. What does that have to do with it? I didnt realized they had an Xboxwalkman in Japan, last I looked it was a stationary device that you rarely if ever moved, you just put a disc into it and it played it. And if you think they love their little devices so much, why has the GC sold like crap for so long, it has little, teeny, tiny discs, oh they are so cute they should sell like hotcakes in Japan. Whatever.

Now go back and read the rest of the thread and come back with a full report. At least Slade can answer with an intelligent, informed remark. Thank you, Slade.

BTW, Slade and anyone else that wants to retort this thread wasnt about Xbotism or defending truth, justice and the Xbox way. This was about a clear cut bias shown when viewing the numbers from the original posted link.

trebor

09-08-2003, 02:05 PM

Why dont you post the websites for me, so I can stop wasting my time here on VGR, you a$$?

Here you go, moron.

http://www.dynamictruth.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=9

There are some other crackpot, neo-con buffoons for you to get along with. Don't say I didn't warn you, though.

Oh yeah, you need to take a joke when you deserve it too.

Oh, and the game library sucks too. Where do you live trebor, Japan? Have you even bothering reading thru this thread or did you just pick out what you wanted to reply to with your oh so dim, er, quick-witted comeback?

Umm...have you read through this post? I see a lot of "boycott Japanese" and "the Japanese are deliberately keeping the Xbox down by not supporting it" and the like. BS - all of it. The Xbox had enough support from Japanese developers, so when it failed, it failed because of it's own merits. Namco, Temco, Sega and Capcom aren't enough for you?

The Japanese love their little gadgets do they. What does that have to do with it? I didnt realized they had an Xboxwalkman in Japan, last I looked it was a stationary device that you rarely if ever moved, you just put a disc into it and it played it. And if you think they love their little devices so much, why has the GC sold like crap for so long, it has little, teeny, tiny discs, oh they are so cute they should sell like hotcakes in Japan. Whatever.

So are you trying to claim that the Japanese are not into tiny electronic gadgets now? That is absurd. Space is an issue in that country. There are 100's of families stacked on top of each other, because there is no space! So size is an issue for them - even for a stationary electronic device, every inch counts. The Xbox is big and bulky whereas the PS2 can be used upright - so it takes up much less space. The Cube has also sold better in Japan than America, so I don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Now go back and read the rest of the thread and come back with a full report. At least Slade can answer with an intelligent, informed remark. Thank you, Slade.

Yeah, Slade is great. No problem with that.

Why you ignore my point about Japanese loving American culture is kind of lame, given that it is an informed remark. As I said before, I read this thread (as much of it I could stomach - Tappy) and it is valid. As I said before, trying to claim that the Japanese are biased against American products is just stupifying. They love America. America is the #1 tourist spot for Japanese travellers. Get off it.

BTW, Slade and anyone else that wants to retort this thread wasnt about Xbotism or defending truth, justice and the Xbox way. This was about a clear cut bias shown when viewing the numbers from the original posted link.

You think the game library in general had anything to do with it? I do. Do you think that the appearance of the Xbox was a factor, to a group of people who appreciate elegance in form over function? I do.

slade

09-08-2003, 03:13 PM

Gotta agree with Trebor about X-box's size making it a hinderance. This is a country with limited space and a large population. When the Japanese start making Square Watermelons, you've gotta admit that size is an issue.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/asiapcf/east/06/15/square.watermelon/

sjsharky

09-08-2003, 03:26 PM

<div class=\"smallfont\">Here you go, moron.

http://www.dynamictruth.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=9

There are some other crackpot, neo-con buffoons for you to get along with. Don't say I didn't warn you, though.

Oh yeah, you need to take a joke when you deserve it too.

Umm...have you read through this post? I see a lot of "boycott Japanese" and "the Japanese are deliberately keeping the Xbox down by not supporting it" and the like. BS - all of it.
The Xbox had enough support from Japanese developers, so when it failed, it failed because of it's own merits. Namco, Temco, Sega and Capcom aren't enough for you?

So are you trying to claim that the Japanese are not into tiny electronic gadgets now? That is absurd. Space is an issue in that country. There are 100's of families stacked on top of each other, because there is no space! So size is an issue for them - even for a stationary electronic device, every inch counts. The Xbox is big and bulky whereas the PS2 can be used upright - so it takes up much less space. The Cube has also sold better in Japan than America, so I don't know what the hell you are talking about.

Yeah, Slade is great. No problem with that.

Why you ignore my point about Japanese loving American culture is kind of lame, given that it is an informed remark. As I said before, I read this thread (as much of it I could stomach - Tappy) and it is valid. As I said before, trying to claim that the Japanese are biased against American products is just stupifying. They love America. America is the #1 tourist spot for Japanese travellers. Get off it.

You think the game library in general had anything to do with it? I do. Do you think that the appearance of the Xbox was a factor, to a group of people who appreciate elegance in form over function? I do.</div>
Whatever trebor, if I sound like a crackpot, neo-con buffoon, whatever the hell that is, to you, then you must be a hypersensitive bleeding-heart liberal.

I made a personal remark based on my own personal conclusions regarding said link, not a blanket statement that "We as Americans should boycott Japanese products". I dont live in Japan, but from what I see here and on other websites, there are some genres, namely Japanese-loving genres that are not supported. What Tappy says is his own business.

Only Sega and Tecmo have attempted to support the Xbox in my opinion. What have Namco and Capcom put out? Soul Calibur 2 and SB, respectively? A recent cross-platform release and a $200 game. Thats support.

Once again, I do not live in Japan, so assuming you do, you have more info than I do on their culture. Of course, I DO know they are into tiny electronic gadgets. Its not like the Xbox is SO much bigger than the PS2. Not being able to set it on top of the TV sounds like a pretty lame excuse not to buy one, assuming they can make room for all these other "gadgets", large or small. Remember not everything can be made into the size of a wristwatch. So I dont buy that as an excuse.

I'm not necessarily claiming that the general public is biased, though I think they are to a point, I think the developers are biased not bringing the types of games to the system that will draw consumers from their own country. The developers certainly know their own countymen's tastes and have brought plenty of quirky games that would never sell here, and havent, to the PS2 in Japan. Once again I will point out, NO JRPG's on the Xbox, is it MS's fault? I dont know for sure maybe, maybe not

I didnt ignore your point on loving American culture on purpose, but I will address it now. American culture, ie Movies, Disney and the like do not translate to what games the public buys over there. If Slade is telling me that a JRPG is selling GC's now or that a dating sim or another game like Seaman will sell consoles over there, then how does "American Culture" relate to what sells videogames and consoles? The Japanese want to play Japanese culture related games, American want to play American culture related games.

Bottom line: 650 Units is pathetic and shameful for a system that is hardly the 3DO of its time.

Glockstar

09-08-2003, 04:13 PM

... and to the only good discussion going on in this thread (though you gotta give an honorable mention to Vgamer and Cugel), I'd like to put in my two cents:

I'm with sharky on this one (though that's no surprise)... but I am starting to question whether assigning full blame on the Japanese consumers is right. So I'm changing my tune a little bit.

Yes, the Japanese (still) do not buy American products (not new ones anyways), but I do not see how that excuses the poor sales of the American console, the XBox, in Japan when this system is - as all videogame systems are - defined by it's games.

But then again, while I agree that the XBox's failure in Japan is largely due to the lack of appeal it's library has to Japanese gamers, I also see very little, to no, support from Japanese companies. So the horrible sales cannot be all Microsofts fault either.

Or can it? I doubt anyone here can truly know the answer to this, but perhaps MS has just not done what they should have done to secure Japanese support. That could mean a lot of different things; but I would guess that it at least would mean greasing the palms of Japanese developers.

That said, I have never understood why the Japanese publishers didn't - and still don't - take the "initiative" themselves and jump at the chance to fill in the holes of the XBox library with their own games! (Though now that slade mentions it, I do remember Enix saying what they said about who they'd support.) There are still no J-RPGs on the XBox - and I still think companies like Konami (with Suikoden III) are blowing a golden opportunity to make some good money! The only reason that J-RPGs have not sold well on the XBox is because there aren't any!!!

As slade has mentioned, and GG78 before, the Japanese developed games that have been for sale on the XBox have sold quite well in Japan (though anybody could have probably guessed that for themselves). Yes the sales have dwindled after only a short period, but look at the user base! And what should all this tell you? Though it does suggest that Japanese consumers are prejudiced, the lack of sales should also tell you that there just aren't enough games on the XBox that appeal to their pocketbooks.

And without the games we all know that a system won't sell. (Turbografx 16, Sega Saturn, GameCube (jj :p ); etc. etc.) The question then becomes, "why?"... as in "why aren't there any Japanese style games available on the XBox"?

Which is pretty much where we came in at, isn't it? It's a vicious circle. But like a dog chasing its tale - it also doesn't make any sense to me! So before I start getting dizzy, let me try to end this craziness now, and segue into... a worthy effort I'd seen from Microsoft themselves that certainly seemed right up a Japanese alley... the game called N.U.D.E. ...

http://www.xboxsolution.com/article546.html

Seems like a case of "if you want something done right..." (Or is it more like, "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em"?)

Now... do I even need to say it? Do I really need to state for the record that I have no interest in this crap, whatsoever?!? Or why? That's not to say that I don't have an interest in Japanese games, like Suikoden III, Disgaea, Dynasty Warriors 4, or True Fantasy Live Online though... because I do! But this stuff?!? Hey, oh well... to each their own, I guess, right? And I know that if MS really wants to do have successful business over there, then stuff like this is what they're going to have to do.

Though I still think they should just knock it off. Maybe... try again later - once they've actually got a nice, big, selection of titles to offer the Japanese gamer... or something. (I'm of the mind that a company should not spread itself too thin - that it should instead concentrate on what it does best.) Hmmm... sounds like an idea that's parallel to Nintendo's on-line strategy, doesn't it? So I would think that GameCube fans would be agree with me here.

joquito

09-09-2003, 05:38 AM

But they don't feel the need to. The Japanese gaming market isn't the end all be all in the eyes of B. Gates. MS will try to dominate from Europe and the US. I'm convinced, an MS-owned Square Soft would not do as well as it does today because it would be viewed as "Bastardized'. This type of thinking is true for Americans, Europeans, etc. I tell some that people that volvo is owned by Ford and those same people start to question the reliablity of volvos. Brits don't look at Aston Martin the same way.

I'm curious about the sales of the GTA series in Japan. GTA is in all accounts a game made for those in the West and on paper should not appeal to Japanese gamers.

trebor

09-09-2003, 08:46 AM

Whatever trebor, if I sound like a crackpot, neo-con buffoon, whatever the hell that is, to you, then you must be a hypersensitive bleeding-heart liberal.

This is where the "joke" thing comes into play. Learn to take one.

I made a personal remark based on my own personal conclusions regarding said link, not a blanket statement that "We as Americans should boycott Japanese products". I dont live in Japan, but from what I see here and on other websites, there are some genres, namely Japanese-loving genres that are not supported. What Tappy says is his own business.

You have to admit, it sounded rather silly - the whole boycotting Japanese games, or whatever, you mentioned in the first post in this thread. Once again, I was being a bit sarcastic too.

Only Sega and Tecmo have attempted to support the Xbox in my opinion. What have Namco and Capcom put out? Soul Calibur 2 and SB, respectively? A recent cross-platform release and a $200 game. Thats support.

My point was that Japanese developers have attempted to support the Xbox and that there is no deliberate bias against it.

Once again, I do not live in Japan, so assuming you do, you have more info than I do on their culture. Of course, I DO know they are into tiny electronic gadgets. Its not like the Xbox is SO much bigger than the PS2. Not being able to set it on top of the TV sounds like a pretty lame excuse not to buy one, assuming they can make room for all these other "gadgets", large or small. Remember not everything can be made into the size of a wristwatch. So I dont buy that as an excuse.

No, I don't live in Japan. I know a lot about the Japanese, in general, but I don't make any claims to understanding their culture whatsoever. But that is a key point - the Japanese have a very different culture then NA does. Given these very different cultures, who is to say that the Japanese simply just dislike the size/shape of the Xbox? It is just a theory of mine - nothing more. Just because it seems silly to you, doesn't mean it isn't of the utmost importance to the Japanese.

I'm not necessarily claiming that the general public is biased, though I think they are to a point, I think the developers are biased not bringing the types of games to the system that will draw consumers from their own country. The developers certainly know their own countymen's tastes and have brought plenty of quirky games that would never sell here, and havent, to the PS2 in Japan. Once again I will point out, NO JRPG's on the Xbox, is it MS's fault? I dont know for sure maybe, maybe not

But who decides what the developers are developing? Does not M$ have a big say in what is being developed for their system? That is a key issue - the Xbox library is heavily geared towards NA gamers. So when I say "the Xbox library sucks" it is a snide way of saying "the Xbox library doesn't appeal to Japanese gamers" - this is System Wars, you know. Like I said before, we are talking about two very different cultures - obviously the Xbox library is more geared towards NA gamers then the eclectic tastes of the Japanese.

I didnt ignore your point on loving American culture on purpose, but I will address it now. American culture, ie Movies, Disney and the like do not translate to what games the public buys over there. If Slade is telling me that a JRPG is selling GC's now or that a dating sim or another game like Seaman will sell consoles over there, then how does "American Culture" relate to what sells videogames and consoles? The Japanese want to play Japanese culture related games, American want to play American culture related games.

Exactly. All I was trying to say is that the Japanese are not deliberatly biased against the Xbox simply because it's American. They are biased against it because the game library doesn't appeal to them on a cultural level. If there were weird dating sims and JRPG's available for the Xbox, the Japanese would lap it up - but there is not.

Bottom line: 650 Units is pathetic and shameful for a system that is hardly the 3DO of its time.

To be sure.

Chris

09-09-2003, 02:13 PM

In my opinion, it comes down to understanding the market you're trying to reach. I seriously doubt that the number of Xbox's sold in Japan are so low because of some boycott. The issue is not that Xbox games are not "good", they just may not be big hits in other parts of the world like they are here. Games are what drive people to buy a console.

Two good examples of this are NASCAR and NFL Football. While these are the two hottest sporting events in the US, the rest of the world watches Formula 1 and Soccer. Trying to market F1 and Soccer to the American consumer, and you'd see similar results.

Microsoft needs to research the top selling games in Japan and target those consumers with some big name titles if they're serious about reaching the Japanese market.

sjsharky

09-09-2003, 04:31 PM

To be fair, I never once declared the Japanese to have an organized or conscience boycott, I said they were bias. I do see both trebor and Chris' points and believe that to be true, the games are not appealing to the consumer over there. What I am declaring is the Japanese developers are not making games that "appeal to their fellow countrymen", that is what I mean by supporting the system.

The question now remains, Is it MS fault for not researching and knowing the market they were getting into or are the Japanese developers keeping away for "other" reasons? I dont have the information, so I cant say. I find it hard to believe MS would make such a grand mistake when so much was and is on the line. JMHO.

afterthought: If it is indeed the case that MS made this huge miscalculation, then they deserve their fate in Japan.

"The Game"Evolution

09-09-2003, 05:30 PM

<div class=\"smallfont\">Gamer, you pretty much hit the nail on the head. Notice how Tappy went on about how you couldn't compare still shots of the game in your thread comparing Soul Calibur and Soul Calibur 2 and then two days later he's posting still shots of GTA and saying they look better then the PS2 version.

There's just no consistency in these arguments anymore.</div>

Anybody thats seen all three versions playing together clearly sees that the Xbox's version of SC II is graphically the best looking version followed by the GC's version and then in last the lowly PS2's version.

But those screenshots really dont prove jack ####! But believe what you wish smoochers.

Joah_from_Alberta

09-09-2003, 09:53 PM

I would think that Japanese shun the Xbot for several reasons. Foremost for what it is, a blackbox PC. You can imagine that in Japan, space is at a premium. The Japanese are extremely efficient people, highly conservative of their space (among other things). Where the heck are they going to fit a big blob box? Under their bed? Atleast PS2 can fit in a vertical slant. Then there is the controller that is not suited for people with small hands. The s-controller yes, you say, is just a few thumps slow from the start line, enough to hitch public opinion.

There are a lot of factors responsible for why xbot is not selling at all in Japan. I personally think there's still some dust falling from an atom bomb (oops). But it's hard to say. Maybe the Japanese feel that they should be the dominant culture in containing their video heritage. I mean, they have had it for a long dynasty, maybe they feel threatened by MS? Probably the average consumer knows about the business tactics used by MS. What it boils down to is a complete lack of integrity for xbot.

Now as far as old school gaming is conserned. This is very relative. Has anyone ever played a game called Moonstone. This was a 4-player RPG-type boardgame that rocked the early ninties. Some of the graphic elements were very innovative, for the time, and even today are not used (such as the whole background shaking when your character is hit). It's all a matter of perspective. Again I'd like to emphasize diversity and potential difference. Diveristy is the kingdom of man, for without well, uh-hum, yeah, no organized religion ... right. But the bottom line point is that all games are good for you taken in moderation. Good, bad, old and new. Could you imagine ever having an appreciation for all music? This is benefical, for the bad provides an excellent contrast to the good. Go camping for a week, and bring an old gameboy, you'll seriously love it to entropy! The virtue that bad (dated, etc.) games can provide you is similar to what a trip roughing it in the outdoors does for you.

And, beware of (video) saturation, for the transistor's gaze will turn you to a pixellated fool.