Fun on other boards

[Aku]

Let us share fun moments from beyond the insulated world of the PCGR forums. Here's an entertaining exchange between me and a guy who can't figure out how to sneak up behind a guard and club him in Thief.
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Originally Posted by Dobian
Thief isn't unforgiving, you're just not playing it right. You keep saying you 'run' at the guards. You don't run, you walk. You can also use your moss arrows on hard floors to muffle your footsteps. You can hide in the shadows and not be seen even when the guard is three feet away (for maximum invisibility, you can't be holding a weapon). I played Thief 1 and 2, and there is no guard you can't sneak past or subdue.

F**k you.
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Noiw that's what makes forums worth coming to!

[Jasmania]

LOL!!
I guess we can consider that post & reply the forum equivalent of an IQ test.
I take it that the discussion ended there?? ;)

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Here's an entertaining exchange between me and a guy who can't figure out how to sneak up behind a guard and club him in Thief.


Sounds like pro-Spector hype to gain acceptance to his ideals behind implementing more vicious melee attacks from Garrett actually. Some of the boneheaded things going through that giuys' head... I tell ya...

[Renzatic Gear]

Eh, no matter what Spector says none of the old fans would take to the game being turned into a melee fest.

You really should read the Q/A thread topics where the devs answered questions asked by the fans. TTLG did a quick summary with all the fat cut out if you don't wanna skim through the misc. bullcrap.

lol, and cuz I know you fairly wellish, you're probably thinking "eh, the devs just pretended to be posters and answered their own questions"...well...I'm quoted a couple of times in there.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Well, it's of no importance to me whether you can fight better or not- as long as you have a choice of whether or not you have to fight. That's very important to me. If you can get by without fighting, and use stealth entirely, then all the more power to you... However, I'm also beginning to suspect the Stealth Engine (what's the engine called these days- still the Dark Engine, or is it running off the modified Warfare Engine and they're sticking to that name?), may not be up to par hiding the main character too well- it seems they are almost anticipating combat to happen a lot more often. Crappy Collision Detection maybe? Oh well, we'll be seeing soon enough. If the engine is up to par, and is adept at stealth and hiding, and the game ships with an SDK, I'll be a happy camper.

[Renzatic Gear]

Well, it's of no importance to me whether you can fight better or not- as long as you have a choice of whether or not you have to fight. That's very important to me. If you can get by without fighting, and use stealth entirely, then all the more power to you... However, I'm also beginning to suspect the Stealth Engine (what's the engine called these days- still the Dark Engine, or is it running off the modified Warfare Engine and they're sticking to that name?), may not be up to par hiding the main character too well- it seems they are almost anticipating combat to happen a lot more often. Crappy Collision Detection maybe? Oh well, we'll be seeing soon enough. If the engine is up to par, and is adept at stealth and hiding, and the game ships with an SDK, I'll be a happy camper.
The game won't ship with the SDK, I'm almost certain of that. But there is a really good chance that it'll be released afterwords.

And the game doesn't necessarily anticipate more melee combat, it's still possible to get through the entire game without killing a single person...or if you wanna play it Lytha style...not even blackjack em, just slip through undetected.

If anything the game is more adapt at hiding the character. With the Dark Engine all you had to do was stand on dark areas, but in Thief 3 shadows exist in 3 dimensions so you'll have to be more aware of your surroundings.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

it's still possible to get through the entire game without killing a single person.

Sure it is... (heavy on the sarcasm) Just like you can do that in Far Cry or Splinter Cell (make it through the entire game without firing a shot). The only Stealth based game I have seen that actually lives up to what I've quoted you as saying IS the Thief engine based off of the Dark Engine- the new engine could totally throw that out the window if the volumetric fog/darkness isn't exact, or is too unforgiving; I don't think it has ANYTHING to do with awareness... after all, it'll be apparent to me that I'm hiding in the shadows, but to a badly programmed AI, I may as well be standing out in the open.

Start making things more complex, and there's more chances of things breaking down. Thief was fine just the way it was, he's an exceptional thief after all. Seems to me that they are anticipating it entirely that combat will be unavoidable. Even the print ad has Garrett as an unforgiving assassin now- with killing and ambushing being a notable feature they have the fore-thought of stating in the ad. I think they are preparing us in their own way for a let down- as gently as they can.

[Renzatic Gear]

No, they have it set in the gameplay options were you're not allowed to kill a single person..just like in the original Thief games. ISA has just made it easier to take on a lone guard, but if he's joined up by his friends you'll have to run.

The only thing they've made more complex are the shadows and AI, since the shadows move and the AI is far more aware of it's surroundings (so they say) you have to think on your toes a bit more. The game still has the same focus as the original Thief games..which is on avoiding confrontation.

Expert in Thief 3 is exactly like expert in Thief 1 & 2..don't off anybody. If the game was geared towards killing they wouldn't have that option in there.

Course the proof is in the pudding, and neither one of us can really say for certain if it lives up to the originals til we've both played it. But from what I've read we'll still be sneaking around and watching guard patrols...which are more random now, a guard might walk down a hallway 3 times, but on the 4th pass he might change his mind and go into the kitchen for something to eat.

And the advertisments? They really don't mean anything. I have a magazine with an advert for Thief 2 in there showing Garrett with his bow drawn and the caption "don't fear the dark, fear what it hides"..that portrays him as an assassin just as much as the new ones do.

Edit: Even though the gameplay is still up in the air, at least they've got the atmosphere and feel right...

New Screen! (http://users.chartertn.net/greymatt/Thief3_1.jpg)
New Screen 2! (http://users.chartertn.net/greymatt/Thief3_2.jpg)

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Well, that's good that they have the Difficulty options set to something I'm familiar with, but that Volumetric darkness gives me the willies. I've played too many "stealth" games (if it's touted to have "Stealth"-based gameplay on the box- chances are I've played it) to realise that only ONE game has done it right (in my mind)- and the fact that the engine is being overhauled and Spector with his wishy-washy ideals is at the helm makes me jittery.

However, I hope that your enthusiam is closer to the mark, while I fear that my suspicions are actually closer to the truth- but time will tell, like you said. I normally don't play demos, but when this hits the Eidos servers, I'll be there like greased lightening. Any ideas on a demo release date?

[Renzatic Gear]

Like I said before, Spector isn't designing games anymore. His last game was the original Deus Ex, after that he handed the series off to that Smith guy..and...well, we know what happened there. Alot of good ideas gone horribly wrong.

To paraphrase one of his quotes: "I've never understood the appeal of Thief, that's why I've handed it off to people that have lived and breathed the series since it's inception."

It's not so much the design team not knowing or understanding with made the series so special, considering all the old Thief guys have worked on it at one point or another that's not an issue, it's wondering if they're able to get it right with all the new tech, like you said. Considering that they've spent 4 years on the game, Its almost a given that they've at least tweaked it enough so that you're not spotted when you're supposed to be hidden.

And as far as the demo goes, nothing much has been said. That could make a few people suspicious, namely you :p.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Well, he may not be in actuality designing the games, but he's sure as hell the Lead/Executive Producer... And with quotes from him saying such as ... "I mean, everything was like let's make the same game, which is absolutely the wrong thing to do,"* I tend to get a little nervous... especially since he has final say...

*Warren Spector on Deus Ex: Invisible War- Gamespy

[Renzatic Gear]

Not really, a good example of that is the unified ammo. Spector didn't want it in the game and thought it was a little too simplistic, but Smith did thinking that people wouldn't care...so it ended up in there anyway.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Not really, what? Not really that he's the Executive Producer? Well, if they have unified ammo- what's next for Thief? Unified arrows with acquired magical abilities imbuing each found arrow with Moss, Water, or Fire abilities that you get by finding runes? Health Packs? Hidden, spinning, glowing letters that when you spell out Garrett you get a 1Up?!! LOLWarren Spector has rocks in his ****ing head.

[Renzatic Gear]

Don't Hurt My Feeling, Steve!