Someone Explain Why SC2 Has These Problems

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Slade and GF78 can't do it, their only reason why SC2 is great is "because it rocks cause I said so." Well, not good enough. Here are some major deficiency with the game SC2. And I'd like an intelligent person, who can answer the criticisms to respond, and someone who has played the game(ie, not u Slade!).
-The fighters, half the fighters in SC2 are duplicated characters. Mitsurugi has a duplicate, Astorath has a duplicate, Kilik has a duplicate, Cassandra has a duplicate, on top of that the boss Inferno is just a duplicate of the other fighters covered in flame! Can anyone see past this transparent attempt to provide gaming value? Even the new character Necrid is like inferno, he uses energy weapons from the other characters. DOA3 fighters were all unique, all with unique fighting styles.
-The endings. When u do beat Inferno, congratulations you are treated to a still picture, some text, and a corny story from a mouth piece. At least DOA3 gave you a nice CG movie for your efforts for each fighter. Yes, GF78, I know u hated the movies, but they are a lot better than what u get in SC2.
-The levels. Some have the gall to rave about the "now" 3D backgrounds in SC2. U kidding? They are the simplest 3D levels, the size of the environments is pitiful, there are no multiple levels, breakable walls, or dynamic backgrounds. Compared to DOA3 these backgrounds are extremely bland, and DOA3 was a launch game. How can anyone honestly compare the backgrounds and levels of DOA3 to SC2?
-The fighting, anyone who won't admit that SC2 is a button masher is just not honest. I'm not saying no one can develop skill in the game, all i'm saying is out of all the series, SC2 is the simplest and easiest for anyone to pick up and button mash to some success. Anyone who raves about SC2 really has no right to complain and call DOA3 a button masher. Especially when DOA3 had reversals as well as standard blocks, tag team combo's and better throws. Balance, SC2 is the most unbalanced fighter ever, Mitsurugi, Maxi, Nightmare can overwhelm the other fighters. Everyone knew about this is SC and talked about it, but Namco didn't address anything, its all the same.
-Value, there is no tag team mode, so four people can't play. Forget weapons mode, i'd rather have this. Yeah there are some new fighters, I would hope so after almost 5 years. But these new fighters aren't enough to warrant a sequel with a bad maps, the same exact fighting moves, no movie for the endings, a weak boss. This game is a highly polished port, SC was a good game, this is a good since its basically a copy of the original. But it is not new, does nothing innovative for the genre, and is just a highly polished version of the original.

[slade]

Did this comparison on another thread. I think I'll do it here too:

Tier listings for SC2. Character at the top is the most powerful:

http://guardimpact.com/skill/study.php?edition=ranking_project_sc2

Tier listings for Soul Calibur

http://guardimpact.com/skill/study.php?edition=ranking_project

That explains one of your BS statements.

I'll let others handle the rest.

[Gaming Geezer 78]

Slade and GF78 can't do it, their only reason why SC2 is great is "because it rocks cause I said so." Well, not good enough. Here are some major deficiency with the game SC2. And I'd like an intelligent person, who can answer the criticisms to respond, and someone who has played the game(ie, not u Slade!).
-The fighters, half the fighters in SC2 are duplicated characters. Mitsurugi has a duplicate, Astorath has a duplicate, Kilik has a duplicate, Cassandra has a duplicate, on top of that the boss Inferno is just a duplicate of the other fighters covered in flame! Can anyone see past this transparent attempt to provide gaming value? Even the new character Necrid is like inferno, he uses energy weapons from the other characters. DOA3 fighters were all unique, all with unique fighting styles.
-The endings. When u do beat Inferno, congratulations you are treated to a still picture, some text, and a corny story from a mouth piece. At least DOA3 gave you a nice CG movie for your efforts for each fighter. Yes, GF78, I know u hated the movies, but they are a lot better than what u get in SC2.
-The levels. Some have the gall to rave about the "now" 3D backgrounds in SC2. U kidding? They are the simplest 3D levels, the size of the environments is pitiful, there are no multiple levels, breakable walls, or dynamic backgrounds. Compared to DOA3 these backgrounds are extremely bland, and DOA3 was a launch game. How can anyone honestly compare the backgrounds and levels of DOA3 to SC2?
-The fighting, anyone who won't admit that SC2 is a button masher is just not honest. I'm not saying no one can develop skill in the game, all i'm saying is out of all the series, SC2 is the simplest and easiest for anyone to pick up and button mash to some success. Anyone who raves about SC2 really has no right to complain and call DOA3 a button masher. Especially when DOA3 had reversals as well as standard blocks, tag team combo's and better throws. Balance, SC2 is the most unbalanced fighter ever, Mitsurugi, Maxi, Nightmare can overwhelm the other fighters. Everyone knew about this is SC and talked about it, but Namco didn't address anything, its all the same.
-Value, there is no tag team mode, so four people can't play. Forget weapons mode, i'd rather have this. Yeah there are some new fighters, I would hope so after almost 5 years. But these new fighters aren't enough to warrant a sequel with a bad maps, the same exact fighting moves, no movie for the endings, a weak boss. This game is a highly polished port, SC was a good game, this is a good since its basically a copy of the original. But it is not new, does nothing innovative for the genre, and is just a highly polished version of the original.

First DAMAN, what fighters are duplicates of each other? You tried to say Mitsurugi and Yoshimitsu were the same character and everyone who has played the game knows you are full of crap. Wow-they both have long swords. I guess that makes them the same in your morose eyes, right?
You say Inferno is a duplicate of other characters and you are right to a certain degree. Inferno changes his fighting style 3 times per match with him to mimic the fighting styles of all the various fighters in the game. But I can tell you he is a helluva lot better boss than the mental-midget-designed boss in DOA3 who goes "WOOO!!!" when the match starts. A cheap ass boss fight in DOA3, where the screen is blurry as hell, you have to run to the back to get to the boss and he takes cheap shots with his wanna-be lightsaber and knocks you 30-foot back per attack.
The architecture in Soul Calibur II leaves the bland, crap backgrounds of DOA3 in the dust. Oh look-a beach! And a building! And wow-a neon-lit street! How fun! How impressive! SCII leaves DOA3 eating it's vapor trail.
I've gone over your spew about Maxi, Mitsurigi and Nightmare overwhelming every other character a dozen times already and you still don't get it. I can take your ass down with anyone. I would love to get you in front of the rest of the VGR crew and hand your ass to you after letting you pick my character and yours!
Go play Fusion Frenzy and Obi-Wan since you think they are so great.

[shogun]

Yoshimitsu and Mitsurugi are similar only in their most basic moves. Anyone who takes the time to play them for more than 5 minutes can see that the characters are completely different under the surface.

Same with Cassandra/Sophitia

And no...Necrid plays NOTHING like the other characters...

[folken001]

<div class=\"smallfont\">Yoshimitsu and Mitsurugi are similar only in their most basic moves. Anyone who takes the time to play them for more than 5 minutes can see that the characters are completely different under the surface.

Same with Cassandra/Sophitia

And no...Necrid plays NOTHING like the other characters...</div>

I don't even think Yoshimitus and Misurugi are similar in their basica moves..... Misurugi's has several different stances and there are more combo for that.

I think this is another classic example of Daman talking crap that he knows nothing about....Well, at least, we know he is the same daman from long ago...

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Man, Slade and GF78 you are both so stupid. I forgot you guys were both DC haters, and probably never really played the first. And i'm sure Slade hasn't even played this version. Now I understand why GF78 your dumb arse was raving about Weapons Master Mode. You idiot, that is just story mode from the first game, just as stupid and lame, except wow you get to unlock other characters weapons for use with different characters. You damn fool, the ICE and Quicksand, and Wind levels you were talking about were in the first SC. I didn't know this is what your fool butt was comparing to DOA3, I thought it was something new. You jackazz, those gimmicks were in the first SC, and just as corny as they are in this one.
Next, sure Mitsu and Yoshi have different moves, but they are duplicates, their core moves are the same. And I was wrong about Cassandra and Sophitia, its Sophitia and the reptile that are duplicates, along with Kilik and the other chick with a staff, Astorath and his duplicate. Huang and xiunang. Not to mention Charade is just another inferno. The only real new characters so far are Spawn, Raphael, and Talim.
And the backgrounds, you idiot, you let your pride fail to even recognize the obvious. The backgrounds are meaningless, the platform you fight on is really small, sure they changed the shapes of some of the platforms, but you are still fighting on a platform that isn't even 1/4th the size of some of the DOA3 levels.
And Slade that is just one possible interpretation of the characters skills. If you read what you posted, Maxi for instance they rate low. Everybody who was up on the first SC knew how powerful Maxi was and still is. I can't help it if your a newbie to the game. Your site says Maxi's potential can't be unlocked cause most people won't use his side steps, this is wrong people do and did use his side steps. When you play SC half of the moves in the game are useless, you go through the command list and learn the fastest moves most useful moves, that is how you get good in this game. Trying to do the powerful slow combos is useless against anyone who knows how to play.
You guys don't know crap about this game, I bought the DC a few months after it launched and played this game for a few years. I didn't buy the DC when it was $50 bucks and hop on the bandwagon like u guys did. You and GF78 trying to tell me about this game, is like me trying to tell u about the intricacies of Tekken or SSBM. Now that i've gone through your vaunted W.M.M. which in your ignorance u think is new, i know more than ever this game is just a polished port. The quicksand, ice and wind levels. And GF78 quit talkin crap, you don't have an XBOX, if so, let's see you on LIVE. Your such a big gaming fan, u spend so much money on gaming, then get LIVE. We don't have to wait for this game, there are other games u could challenge me at. Oh but you are just as fake as your boy Slade who doesn't any games aside from SF2, u don't have an XBOX.

[slade]

Heh, me a newbie at fighters. You know you're getting desperate when you fall back on the same old BS you're used to pulling. It's ok though, we all know you haven't played the game and are likely getting your info from reviewers again.

In any case, let me school you a little.

And Slade that is just one possible interpretation of the characters skills. If you read what you posted, Maxi for instance they rate low. Everybody who was up on the first SC knew how powerful Maxi was and still is.

The analysis has to do with move priorities. Now, if you'd read completely, you wouldn't be talking out of your ass so much. Here's what they actually said:

No shocker here. Inability to do damage and then force his stance mix-ups (which he’s based on) kills him. Most SCII Maxi’s hardly use his stances at all, which is again, the core of his game. With his stance game neutralized, he’s left to poking and 6A+B application. Execellence in this art can pay off much better with other characters.

I don't know, maybe all the fighting lingo is too complicated for a newbie like you but they seem to be saying that his stance game can be neutralized. Oh wait, that was just english. Not too much fighting lingo there.

Also, another person from Soul Calibur's top tier that fell to the bottom is Nightmare.

Next, sure Mitsu and Yoshi have different moves, but they are duplicates, their core moves are the same.

Oh goody, all core moves are the same so all characters must be the same. Hey, if you're going by that logic, why don't you go play DOA3 and see that all characters are the same because their core moves are comprised of punch punch counter with an ocassional kick thrown into the mix.

Finally, yeah I hated the DC. Must be why I still own nearly 20 games for it and still game on it. :rolleyes:

It's apparent you're getting desperate.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

Just a newbie at SoulCalibur. You own DC and 20 games, when did you get your DC Slade? When? I'll bet you are one of the many guys who got the system when it was dying and dirt cheap, tell me i'm wrong.
Plus you are the one who are getting your information from reviews, posting crap about move priorities from this site of yours proves that, you aren't playing the game, I just played it earlier this night (9/2) for about 3 hours straight.
You can take your move priorities and stick them where the sun don't shine, cause it is all garbage. Maxi is one of the easiest characters to use, his combos are so easy to pull off, and once you get caught in his whirlwind he doles out major damage. This site of yours and the move priorities are a joke, anybody who knows anything about playing the game knows how powerful Maxi is. Along with Nightmare, Nightmare has strong powerful moves that are easy to pull off and that are quick, plus he has more range than just about anyone in the game save Ivy and Astoroth. Your sites analysis of move priorities is like looking at two teams on paper, things play differently. I already told you, in this game, the majority of moves you can pull off against the PC don't matter when you play someone who knows how to play. When u play someone who knows how to play, you pare down the list of really usable moves quickly, or you get your butt handed to you.
"In ability to do damage..kills him...most..hardly use his stances at all..." This is all garbage, go play the game, use Maxi. You read these reviews and you think they are LAW. Just like you read your reviews for games like RF and they tell you its a 90% game, then u think it is as good as Halo. Go play some games man, quit reading about them. I haven't read one review on this game, but obviously you have. Also, what about your quicksand, ice, and wind levels you were bragging about, what about your weapon master mode, what about the duplicate fighters. You only answered about Mitsu and Yoshi, but never mentioned any of that other stuff. What's wrong are u reading up trying to find answers, or just ducking 90% of the problems I mentioned as usual. Then, like the liar you are, 3 months from now, you'll say, "Daman never played SC, I remember when he said Yoshimitsu and Mitsu were the same." Keep playing your word games and misquoting people as usual, we know u STILL aren't playing these games.

[slade]

I got my DC a month before PS2 launched.

Hell, I'd talk moves with you but in the end, you'd end up BSing all over the place like you're wont to do. In which case, I feel smacking you across the head with a third party source is the best measure.

You can take your move priorities and stick them where the sun don't shine, cause it is all garbage. Maxi is one of the easiest characters to use, his combos are so easy to pull off, and once you get caught in his whirlwind he doles out major damage.

Dude, who would you rather believe. A fanboy like yourself that has only played the game sparingly thus far or a website with gamers that have been playing the game for nearly a year now. Even you should balk at something like this. I hope you never try to enter a tournament with your Maxi because you'd get spanked hard.

Actually, I gotta ask whether you even understand the concept of competitive play?

When it comes down to players of equal skill level, oftentimes it comes down to just which character each player picks.

Along with Nightmare, Nightmare has strong powerful moves that are easy to pull off and that are quick, plus he has more range than just about anyone in the game save Ivy and Astoroth.

Ok, now I gotta ask whether you know what priority is? It doesn't matter if he's got powerful moves if they won't connect. Mitsurugi will punish Nightmare simply because more of his moves are likely to connect then Nightmares. This is even more true when you get in close to Nightmare like with Taki. If you can keep the range close enough, it doesn't matter that Nightmare has more powerful moves. He'll get punished for even trying to use them.

I took your Mitsu and Yoshimitsu comparison because it was the first thing you mentioned. I could just as easily have used your, 'Necrid plays with other characters weapons,' argument. It's all relative. In any case, if you want to know about S. Mina and Kilik, check the tiering list. Apparently priority for them is a bit mixed. That doesn't mean they play exactly the same because you'll need to utilize different strategies against different characters.

Sigh, just go back to your FPS's. You don't know enough about fighting games to even form a valid argument.

[ThaMaskedGamer]

That is your problem slade, everything with you is about Gamerankings, websites, and what other people believe. You believe anything u find on the internet, if its on a website, for you its gospel. Nevermind it could be posted by some 9 year old geek.
I said Nightmare's moves are powerful AND quick, and I do agree that Miturugi is better than Nightmare. Astoroth has powerful moves, but they are too slow. Not Nightmare. Also, u conveniently didn't read when I said, 50% of the moves in this game are useless against an experienced player. And I may not have logged 40 hours on SC2, but i've logged countless hours on SC1, enough to know how similar the two games are.
Just as I figured, u jumped on the bandwagon for DC. Well, at least u had it unlike your boy GF78. Still, don't sit here and lecture me about this game when I had SC1 a year or two before u did, and played it to death.
As far as your move priorities, what does that have to say towards value. This is what we are talking about here, VALUE. Something PS2 users don't ever seem to care about. I never meant that these duplicate characters are exactly identical, but they are basically the same characters in different clothes. And that is just a rip off, cool for DC back then, but now cool now. They may have different moves, but the fact is they are basically the same characters and its just a shameful attempt to make the gamer think their are more characters. At least DOA3 and most other fighters the characters are truly different.
And what is weapons master mode, all u do is fight the same characters as arcade mode. It is completely stupid, one objective says, "team up with the castle's soldier and defeat the enemy" what happens, the match starts and its just 3 on 3 team battle. But to you, this is extra value. The whole WMM mode is filler garbage, they could have easily had you unlock the maps and characters in arcade mode, but then people would see how shallow the game truly is.
Anyway, like I told GF78, i'm done with this topic. You obviously love the game, and I see the game as a shameless port. I still think its a good game, but after almost 5 years the game is not even better than an XBOX launch game. But seeing as how u missed out on SC I can see why u are wetting your pants over this version. So go off to enjoy your little game, I know u are happy u finally got a good game on PS2 this summer.

[slade]

Even more rubbish. Yes, I do take the word of these guys because they import the game/play the game in arcades/participate in tournaments. Not once in this discussion have we discussed scores, so don't know why you brought up Gamerankings except to probably load your own argument. In any case, what I said before still holds true. You've played the game for maybe 3 hours and the guys that came up with the tier listing have been playing this game since before this year. In some cases, even before the final arcade version of the game was released.

I said Nightmare's moves are powerful AND quick,

I heard you the first time. In any event, what I said for Mitsu and especially Taki still hold true even if you're still going by what you've experienced in the first game. The only way for Nightmare to even win a match against a quicker opponent is to keep him/her at bay. In this new game, even slower characters like Astaroth can punish Nightmare which is why Nighty is so low on that list. Ntm, that with some of the characters' longer weapons, like Mitsu's Shamshir, the reach issue is practically nullified. This is why the weapons are more then just for show. They can be very helpful in the actual gameplay as well.

Also, u conveniently didn't read when I said, 50% of the moves in this game are useless against an experienced player.

That really depends upon who you're playing and which move you're countering. Weren't you going on and on and on about the Rock, Paper, Scissors way of fighting games. No move is useless when you've got priority. Which leads us to:

As far as your move priorities, what does that have to say towards value. This is what we are talking about here, VALUE. Something PS2 users don't ever seem to care about. I never meant that these duplicate characters are exactly identical, but they are basically the same characters in different clothes. And that is just a rip off, cool for DC back then, but now cool now. They may have different moves, but the fact is they are basically the same characters and its just a shameful attempt to make the gamer think their are more characters. At least DOA3 and most other fighters the characters are truly different.

Gah!!!!! You really don't know fighters, do you.

Firstly, your whole issue of value is moot because when you mix up priority within a fighting game, you effectively change the characters. Strategies which work in the first game won't work as well now and you've got to relearn the game. Of course, someone like you that probably doesn't even have a friend willing to play such games competitively with you wouldn't know anything about this.

Secondly, DOA3's whole Ninja Squadron had the same basic way of playing. You'd have to be either ignorant or an idiot to compare Mitsu to Yoshi and then go on and say something so ludicrous about DOA3.

And what is weapons master mode, all u do is fight the same characters as arcade mode. It is completely stupid, one objective says, "team up with the castle's soldier and defeat the enemy" what happens, the match starts and its just 3 on 3 team battle. But to you, this is extra value. The whole WMM mode is filler garbage, they could have easily had you unlock the maps and characters in arcade mode, but then people would see how shallow the game truly is.

The WMM/MM/EM mode is one of the more refreshing modes in the Soul series. The mode is obviously for training purposes because even if you start the game at a beginner level, when you get towards the end, you'll likely be at least an intermediate fighter. And the different challenges like where there's an Earthquake and every three seconds something happens to you if you don't jump or block, are good incentives for those of us that actually posess some measure of skill.

Just as I figured, u jumped on the bandwagon for DC.

Actually, the two games that decided me on a DC purchase were Capcom vs. SNK and Soul Calibur. Seeing as how you only showed up on this site in the summer of 2001, during which time, I wasn't even on the boards, I really don't see how you could even know in what light I viewed the DC.

I will leave you with the same advice I left you before. Stick to your FPS's, fighting games may just be a little too complicated for you.

[Zangoose, Furious]

My favorite is how these DOA fanboys whine about the "re-hash" factor in SC2, when they themselves don't even realize that DOA3 is basically DOA2 with a lick of fresh paint and some pretty new clothes. I own both SC and DOA2, as well and SC2 and DOA3. While I like the DOA series, SC is definitely the deeper, and ultimately, the better one. While DOA may not have any "duplicate" characters, so to speak, the total dearth of unlockables makes the game wear thin pretty darn fast, especially when the fighting system isn't worth it to keep playing for months on end. Sure, it's fun, and a great game, but it doesn't beat SC2.

'Goose, over n' out!

[tekbit]

I bought Soul Calibur about a week ago for my gc and when i first fired it up I thought to myself, this is it? You see, I have never played the first one so this was all new to me. I kinda of thought it was over hyped and yes, a bit of a button masher. But, as time went on I began to appreciate every aspect of the game the weapons mode in particular is very cool. I relized yes anybody can play this game but it does take some strategy to really get good. I thought I was getting good too until I tried the survival mode and Astoroth wiped his a$$ with me. So my point is, is that you have to spend a little time with SCII to appreciate it. As you unlock better weapons like Link's biggoron or razor swords (very nostalgic of my OOT days) or maps to play on and the extras, the game picks up momentum. I'm hooked now. As for the backgrounds I have no problem with them their colorful and nice too look at. and the graphics, there is a glinch here and there, i do think their clothing could have blown a little better in the breeze, MK Deadly Alliance did a good jod with that, but thats is very minor and dosen't take anything away from the game. All in all its's a good fighter and was worth the 50 bucks.