More overt sexuality in games????

[Jasmania]

In the FarCry thread that I started the subject of provocative sexual situations came up.
I thought that this might make for an interesting discussion IF we can treat the subject seriously. Both FarCry and Max Payne 2 were cited for titillating seens involving the female characters. I am interested to find out if sexual references or images in games improves them, offends either men or women or is simply gratiutous or irrelevant.
To site some examples- in Freedom Fighters the leader of the resistance movement was a buxom woman wearing a tight tanktop. The game developers decided to create a model that included nipples poking through her shirt. In Tomb Raider-Angel of Darkness, everyone's favorite virtual pinup girl, Lara Croft was modeled with "real world" physics that made her ample bust jiggle when she would jump. The Fallout games had very specific instances where the character could sleep with NCPs in the game. GTA2 & Vice City are also recent examples of sexual material in the game.

Is this a trend that everyone is comfortable with? Will sexual content become the next gaming hotspot for the "censorship" crowd to latch on to?

Again, please be sensitive to our gaming community if you choose to post. Keep the comments above belt buckle level please. I will offer my opinions after I see what others have to say on the subject. ;)

[Aku]

Again, please be sensitive to our gaming community if you choose to post. Keep the comments above belt buckle level please. I will offer my opinions after I see what others have to say on the subject. ;)

Yeah, those two hot lezzies at the nightclub in Deus Ex were great...see I couldn't do it, my mind is already in the gutter. I like some T&A once in awhile in games. It doesn't really add any gameplay value, it's just fun. :)

[Jasmania]

I can't help but wonder if female gamers are put off by sexual references that seem gratuitous or exploitive. Some sexual content in games seems more appropriate while other content seems like a ploy to attract pre-teen boys. to buy the game. The sexual chemistry in Max Payne 2 gave the relationship between Max & Mona more tension and made the stakes higher. In Freedom Fighters it did seem funny that everyone else were wearing coats and scarves in the winter while the "chick" was relegated to the same tight tanktop in the obviously chilly room. Is it simply a case of "Breasts-use 'em if you got 'em" to make a game more fun? I hope that I don't appear to be a prude. :o LOL!
I'm not advocating for the issues in one way or another. I really am curious to see how male & female gamers see this trend in games and if it makes a difference to people.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Well, if you (or female gamers) can't handle those tame moments in the games you listed, you better not be watching Canadian TV. Labatt's has a commercial currently running that has two girls standing in a nightclub, and one is putting on lip-gloss. The second girl says, "Wow, that's some nice lip gloss," to the girl applying it. She responds, "want some?" The second girl nods and then they proceed to open-mouth kiss to swap the lip-gloss. The camera swings away to show a group of guys watching, open-mouthed.

I think this commercial pushes the limits, since it's on public TV. At least the games have ratings, warning the gamer ahead of time. This commercial may be acceptable on a porn-channel for instance, but regular broadcasting? Hmmm... I'm not a prude by any means, but that commercial alone has pushed me into changing my beer brand definitely. The company recently was sold to a Brazilian company, so they must figure that anything can go... not in my books however. It's time I start drinking from all the micro-breweries (Sleeman's, Alexander Keith's, ) up here, and drink Canadian! FAXE however (a great Dannish beer- 10%) remains a favourite.

[Robert-The-Rambler]

In the FarCry thread that I started the subject of provocative sexual situations came up.
I thought that this might make for an interesting discussion IF we can treat the subject seriously. Both FarCry and Max Payne 2 were cited for titillating seens involving the female characters. I am interested to find out if sexual references or images in games improves them, offends either men or women or is simply gratiutous or irrelevant.
To site some examples- in Freedom Fighters the leader of the resistance movement was a buxom woman wearing a tight tanktop. The game developers decided to create a model that included nipples poking through her shirt. In Tomb Raider-Angel of Darkness, everyone's favorite virtual pinup girl, Lara Croft was modeled with "real world" physics that made her ample bust jiggle when she would jump. The Fallout games had very specific instances where the character could sleep with NCPs in the game. GTA2 & Vice City are also recent examples of sexual material in the game.

Is this a trend that everyone is comfortable with? Will sexual content become the next gaming hotspot for the "censorship" crowd to latch on to?

Again, please be sensitive to our gaming community if you choose to post. Keep the comments above belt buckle level please. I will offer my opinions after I see what others have to say on the subject. ;)

One of my favorite gaming moments is in Baldur's Gate 2 a dark elven woman in the underworld basically demands you to have sex with her much like the sultana in Don Juan DeMarco if you've seen the movie. If you tell her you love another she threatens to kill her. I thought that was sadistically hilarious almost in the spirit of Naked Gun. I find sexual humor to be a fabulous way to spice up a game.

Liesure Suit Larry, the franchise dedicated to scoring the big one as a total geek has always brought sex to the forefront of gaming. It is really not that unrealistic to expect to see sexual references in games. My guess is 9 out of 10 games are designed by horny geeks anyhow. (I don't mean that negatively. I think it is truth)

[Hieremias]

In the FarCry thread that I started the subject of provocative sexual situations came up.
I thought that this might make for an interesting discussion IF we can treat the subject seriously. Both FarCry and Max Payne 2 were cited for titillating seens involving the female characters. I am interested to find out if sexual references or images in games improves them, offends either men or women or is simply gratiutous or irrelevant.
To site some examples- in Freedom Fighters the leader of the resistance movement was a buxom woman wearing a tight tanktop. The game developers decided to create a model that included nipples poking through her shirt. In Tomb Raider-Angel of Darkness, everyone's favorite virtual pinup girl, Lara Croft was modeled with "real world" physics that made her ample bust jiggle when she would jump. The Fallout games had very specific instances where the character could sleep with NCPs in the game. GTA2 & Vice City are also recent examples of sexual material in the game.

Is this a trend that everyone is comfortable with? Will sexual content become the next gaming hotspot for the "censorship" crowd to latch on to?

Again, please be sensitive to our gaming community if you choose to post. Keep the comments above belt buckle level please. I will offer my opinions after I see what others have to say on the subject. ;)
Both Max Payne 2 and Far Cry have the atmosphere of cheesy B-movies with gratuitous violence and gratuitous nudity. Those kinds of movies have been around longer than I have. I don't see why videogames should be treated differently. Yeah, some women might not like it, but these would be the same women that wouldn't "appreciate" (heh) a movie with similar content. And let's face it, Far Cry and Max Payne 2 aren't aimed at the female demographic.

I thought the Far Cry bathing scene was perfectly in tune with the mood of the rest of the game--a ridiculous B-grade action flick with a script so awful and campy that it's hilarious. You and the chick are in a jungle filled with monsters and armed mercenaries, there's a madman about to unleash terror on the world, and the only hope is for you to stop him against all odds, yet the chick takes time to strip to her undies to have a bath in a pond. Give me a break. There's no way you can take a movie or game like that seriously. Far Cry makes fun of itself all the way through, and it's wonderful.

[Hieremias]

Well, if you (or female gamers) can't handle those tame moments in the games you listed, you better not be watching Canadian TV. Labatt's has a commercial currently running that has two girls standing in a nightclub, and one is putting on lip-gloss. The second girl says, "Wow, that's some nice lip gloss," to the girl applying it. She responds, "want some?" The second girl nods and then they proceed to open-mouth kiss to swap the lip-gloss. The camera swings away to show a group of guys watching, open-mouthed.

I think this commercial pushes the limits, since it's on public TV. At least the games have ratings, warning the gamer ahead of time. This commercial may be acceptable on a porn-channel for instance, but regular broadcasting? Hmmm... I'm not a prude by any means, but that commercial alone has pushed me into changing my beer brand definitely. The company recently was sold to a Brazilian company, so they must figure that anything can go... not in my books however. It's time I start drinking from all the micro-breweries (Sleeman's, Alexander Keith's, ) up here, and drink Canadian! FAXE however (a great Dannish beer- 10%) remains a favourite.
I find that commercial just plain stupid. I don't pay it much attention though, I usually ignore commercials. But when I, like you, have a kid my views on what's appropriate will probably become a lot more important.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

I find that commercial just plain stupid. I don't pay it much attention though, I usually ignore commercials. But when I, like you, have a kid my views on what's appropriate will probably become a lot more important.

Yeah, exactly. When you don't have a kid, it's a silly commercial, however, when you're sitting there holding a little baby girl in your hands, it's hardly the type of **** you want to have her raised on. Now, I believe that it is on rather late (after 2200 I believe), but we record a lot of very tame stuff that runs past ten, that the kids are not (or would not be) restricted from watching... such a s Survivor for instance. When this commercial flashes past- I find my blood pressure raising at the carelessness of the channel and the actual company (and myself).

[Lord Matt]

I compare this to movies. Some movies have sexuality that advances the story and stays respectful. Others dole out T&A to either lure in teenage boys or to distract you from the fact that it might not be that great a movie to begin with.

I say sexuality in games is good if it's used to make it a better game. The aforementioned Max Payne 2 is a good example. The sexuality between the two main characters was displayed properly, and it's nothing out of the ordinary for a story such as this.

Another good example I'd like to point out is from The Longest Journey (I keep meaning to break that one out again too ), in which we see a supporting character who's a lesbian. She wasn't made into a sex object or a stereotype, instead it was merely an aspect of her character. It was done respectfully and I was happy to see something like that in a game.

The example of the busty tank-top wearer in cold weather goes the other way. That's the kind of thing that gives politicians fuel against the video game industry. It's unnecessary and unrealistic sexuality.

If they were to release a game brimming with sexuality, almost as a gimmick, that would be a harsh blow to the gaming community. We've seen the political backlash brought from such games as Grand Theft Auto, Kingpin, and even older ones like Mortal Kombat. Good games or not, these were all known more for their violent content rather than their gameplay. I could see similar games being released with the focus on sexuality instead of violence. Once the violence factor is accepted, they will need to focus on another area to remain shocking and controversial - what better than sex?

[Hieremias]

If they were to release a game brimming with sexuality, almost as a gimmick, that would be a harsh blow to the gaming community. We've seen the political backlash brought from such games as Grand Theft Auto, Kingpin, and even older ones like Mortal Kombat. Good games or not, these were all known more for their violent content rather than their gameplay. I could see similar games being released with the focus on sexuality instead of violence. Once the violence factor is accepted, they will need to focus on another area to remain shocking and controversial - what better than sex?
I don't think it would amount to much. As the average gamer's age increases and the videogame industry gets more and more profitable the anti-gaming politicians are losing the battle. Years ago Doom was the rage, and the protestors wanted to have it banned. By today's standards Doom's violence is almost comical. Now it's GTA, but despite (or because of) all the negative press it was a blockbuster. The voices of those who call for censorship are getting weaker and weaker. I mean really, what has Joe Lieberman and his kind accomplished? All the games they vilify are readily available on store shelves. They've made a lot of noise but they've lost the war. They lost it years ago, they just haven't figured it out yet.

Comparing games to movies is not an analogy, it's the ultimate goal. As long as gaming remains a niche medium it will be treated unfairly. It is high time that video games are considered to be on the same level as TV and movies, and treated with the same laws and ratings. Many surveys have been released and are continually being released indicating that TV viewing is on the decline while videogaming is on the uprise. The goal will be reached when people realize that it is a vast and lucrative entertainment medium and cannot be treated with kid gloves.

There are and will continue to be games that contain violence and T&A, just as there are thousands of movies that contain these things. If it's permitted for movies, it'll be permitted for games. The money will ensure that it remains this way.

[Lord Matt]

I don't think it would amount to much. As the average gamer's age increases and the videogame industry gets more and more profitable the anti-gaming politicians are losing the battle. Years ago Doom was the rage, and the protestors wanted to have it banned. By today's standards Doom's violence is almost comical. Now it's GTA, but despite (or because of) all the negative press it was a blockbuster. The voices of those who call for censorship are getting weaker and weaker. I mean really, what has Joe Lieberman and his kind accomplished? All the games they vilify are readily available on store shelves. They've made a lot of noise but they've lost the war. They lost it years ago, they just haven't figured it out yet.

Comparing games to movies is not an analogy, it's the ultimate goal. As long as gaming remains a niche medium it will be treated unfairly. It is high time that video games are considered to be on the same level as TV and movies, and treated with the same laws and ratings. Many surveys have been released and are continually being released indicating that TV viewing is on the decline while videogaming is on the uprise. The goal will be reached when people realize that it is a vast and lucrative entertainment medium and cannot be treated with kid gloves.

There are and will continue to be games that contain violence and T&A, just as there are thousands of movies that contain these things. If it's permitted for movies, it'll be permitted for games. The money will ensure that it remains this way.

That's really true Hieremias. They've been complaining for years and the only result is likley higher game sales. Controversy brings profits.

I'm not complaining about sexuality in games either, I only hope it further becomes more serious, a la movies. I can see coming a shock-trend though, I wouldn't be suprised if game companies turn in that direction to sell their products. And as the gamers age, the more games will be respected and treated as something other than toys for kids by the politicians and media. Maybe we'll even see gamers become politicians soon :D

But that's really the key - making the public realize that games are not simply toys. When an older non-gamer sees a violent or mature game, they get scared that these are toys aimed at children, and fail to realize that games appeal to people of all ages. Once they realize that, we might see a better enforcement of the ratings system, a la the film industry. A kid can't get in to see an R rated movie, but he'd have no problem buying mature games. It's all about education and awareness in the end.

You're right about the decline of TV too. Just the past day or so I saw a small article (perhaps on www.imdb.com?) showing that TV was losing a good chunk of its young audience to video games. As TV gets more lackluster (the sitcom is practically dead and they're turning too much to reality TV), the audience is looking for other ways of amusing itself. I can relate; I used to watch loads of TV, and now my spare time is split between gaming and DVD's (and don't get me ranting on the decline of the movie industry either :mad: )

[Aku]

You're right about the decline of TV too. Just the past day or so I saw a small article (perhaps on www.imdb.com?) showing that TV was losing a good chunk of its young audience to video games. As TV gets more lackluster (the sitcom is practically dead and they're turning too much to reality TV), the audience is looking for other ways of amusing itself. I can relate; I used to watch loads of TV, and now my spare time is split between gaming and DVD's (and don't get me ranting on the decline of the movie industry either :mad: )

I don't think TV is getting lackluster, it's network TV that's been lackluster (with exeptions). TV itself is better than it's ever been now that you have so many choices. The problem is with people being stuck in the alphabet network mindset. But that is starting to change, and will continue to change as people start to reach adulthood who didn't spend their youths watching nothing but ABC/NBC/CBS. The minority of my TV viewing time is spent watching the major networks. I'm more likely to watch Animal Planet, Discovery,Cartoon Channel, TLC, Comedy Channel, or TV Land (yes, the old network stuff was great), than the major networks. I watch FOX and MSNBC more than the regular news networks. Overall, I do watch less TV than I used to before I got a computer though, that's for sure!

[Suicides-by-Steve]

I'm more likely to watch Animal Planet, Discovery,Cartoon Channel, TLC, Comedy Channel, or TV Land (yes, the old network stuff was great), than the major networks.

Cheers to that! I do the same thing actually. The only show I watch regularly on a network would be Cops. The majority of my TV watching other than that would have to be on specialty stations, or just keep it simply plastered to CTV NewsNet (Canada's version of CNN) while I work/play on the comp.

[Jasmania]

I think the last couple of network shows I watched were The West Wing and X-Files.
Now that they are both being reprised on cable-(FX & Bravo), I rarely watch network for anything but local news coverage. I also record just about everything I watch because of the weird hours in owning & operating two restaurants. Thank god for the VCR and now the DVD recorder. Sigh....every control freaks dream, watch things when YOU want to.

[Jasmania]

Man! Is this a timely thread or what! There is a preview of a new Sims Style game caled "Singles" at Actiontrip's site that is ALL about overt sexuality in PC game. The premise of the game is you controlling a two roomates and trying to set up conditions to get them to sleep together. When I first saw this I was convinced that it had to be a put-on, but the preview seems authentic and is complete with screen shots. The screens feature nudity and the characters are apparently anatomically correct. Rather than post shots, here is the link-
http://www.actiontrip.com/rei/scrs.phtml?cat=previews&link=singlesflirtupyourlife

Forget everything I said about this "sex"issue. Its all totally irrelevant now!!!! ROTFLOL :p
Check it out...it gives a whole new spin on "Bump Mapping".