Why has System Wars has been slow lately?

[no.1gamer]

I'll tell you why:

1. Most VGR members own more than 1 console. How can you mindlessly bash a console that you own?

2. All the consoles now have well rounded libraries. You can't diss the Kitty Cube because it has several super violent games. You can't diss the PC-in-a-Box because it has several exclusive games. You can't diss the BS2 because it has several games that look every bit as great as the "superior" consoles.

I predict that System Wars will continue to die down for the next year. Then as we get rumors and specs of the next gen. consoles things will pick right back up. And once the next gen. consoles are released System Wars will return to it's mindless console flaming origin. The new consoles will only have a handful of launch titles therefore making them susceptible to insults of their lacking libraries.

Only then will System Wars be returned to all its glory. Flame on my VGR friends...

[Renzatic Gear]

I'd say that it's because the weather is nice outside and everyone is going out to enjoy it.

What the hell am I doing in here? I'm gonna go get a tan!

[The Prince of Darkness]

I'll tell you why:

1. Most VGR members own more than 1 console. How can you mindlessly bash a console that you own?

2. All the consoles now have well rounded libraries. You can't diss the Kitty Cube because it has several super violent games. You can't diss the PC-in-a-Box because it has several exclusive games. You can't diss the BS2 because it has several games that look every bit as great as the "superior" consoles.

I predict that System Wars will continue to die down for the next year. Then as we get rumors and specs of the next gen. consoles things will pick right back up. And once the next gen. consoles are released System Wars will return to it's mindless console flaming origin. The new consoles will only have a handful of launch titles therefore making them susceptible to insults of their lacking libraries.

Only then will System Wars be returned to all its glory. Flame on my VGR friends...

I just knew that one day you would post something that made sense(he he). Seriously though---I can only think of one reason that it has been so slow in here---the release of Ninja Gaiden. That game is so sick and everyone is spending every waking moment playing it and now everyone is finally realizing what I have known all along...that the Xbox is the best console. With the release of Ninja Gaiden there is simply no point in arguing anymore.

[no.1gamer]

I'd say that it's because the weather is nice outside and everyone is going out to enjoy it.

What the hell am I doing in here? I'm gonna go get a tan!

Actually the weather up here in Michigan is still $hitty. It's been snowing and is supposed to continue through this weekend. But I understand what you're trying to say.

I just knew that one day you would post something that made sense(he he). Seriously though---I can only think of one reason that it has been so slow in here---the release of Ninja Gaiden. That game is so sick and everyone is spending every waking moment playing it and now everyone is finally realizing what I have known all along...that the Xbox is the best console. With the release of Ninja Gaiden there is simply no point in arguing anymore.

Whoa there Prince of Darkness! Just because I said your black and green atrocity has a handful of exclusive games didn't mean I was complimenting it. It's still the worst console on the face of the Earth. Well ok maybe it's not that bad, but even the Turbo Grafix 16 puts it to shame. And the Turbo Grafix 16 sucked. I guess it's still better than the Atari Jaguar ever was...

[Cuddly Knife]

Ninja Gaiden doesn't make the XBOX the best console in existance. I'd agree with anyone who says it's the best action game of this generation, but there are still more games that I want to play on the PS2 than the XBOX. That's because of my personal tastes, though.

I might start to change my mind after I pick up a few more XBOX titles. I'll get back to you on this in half a year.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

I think the age of the PS2 is finally rearing its head, with the lack of quality AAA games. And I know the PS2 has indeed recieved some good games, that PS2 fans enjoy, but nothing to shock the industry. Nothing that would make other gamers on other systems covet. There hasn't been anything on the PS2 in a long while that I "wish" I could play. About the only game, recently I would have played was SOCOM, but after Rainbow6 how can you play SOCOM, which is basically an upgraded online version of ConflictDesertStorm, great a few years ago, but after R63 and GhostRecon, just okay now. We will see how Killer7, the next MetalGear, and GT4 turnout(but we already know how GT4 is going to be). And the next MetalGear, well, SplinterCell2 will be here next week, unless it is better than that, it will be irrelevant to all but PS2 fans. I hate to just dump on the PS2 library, but I just don't see it stacking up game for game against the XBOX anymore. And I think this is one reason why you don't have guys in here barking. And poor GC...

So leave it to me to re-start the system wars. I'm not really trying to, i'm just answering the question posed by this post. This year the XBOX has too many quality, online games coming out. And this could very well be the best year ever for any console. Already you have Colin4.0(at $19 bucks)Line of Contact, NinjaGaiden, next week Splinter Cell2. Toca2 has been moved up a week to April 13th, then you have Samuari Jack, Rallisport2, and my gosh, Thief3 all in May. This isn't even counting all the multiplatform games which may or may not be coming before the PS2 versions, Red Dead Revolver, Manhunt, Hitman Contracts, Tenchu, and the usual EA crap like Bond and Fight Night, all these games will be on XBX by May. Then later in the year you have StarWars BattleFront, Halo2, Doom3, Sudeki, TrueFantasy, Fable, Full Spectrum Warrior, IndyCar Online.

It just isn't anything to argue about any more.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

Ninja Gaiden doesn't make the XBOX the best console in existance. I'd agree with anyone who says it's the best action game of this generation, but there are still more games that I want to play on the PS2 than the XBOX. That's because of my personal tastes, though.

I might start to change my mind after I pick up a few more XBOX titles. I'll get back to you on this in half a year.

hey Peanut, aside from the Killer7, GT4, MetalGear stuff everybody knows about, what other big titles are dropping on PS2 this year? Exclusive, of course.

[Deathstroke]

Personally, I'm hanging out more at IGN's Resident Evil boards. There just isn't anything to argue here which hasn't been argued five to ten times already.

I like how the X-bots are out in force pimping the X-box. That was pretty much expected but.... eh, grow up for a minute folks.

Quick Edit: I played Ninja Gaiden and well, whoever said its combat was akin to Onimusha was right. The game is basically like Onimusha with a jump button. It's not so much like DMC because the emphasis in that game was air juggles and run n' gun combat. The combat of Ninja Gaiden is based more on blocking and counterattacking. It's strategic and all but I'd still give Viewtiful Joe the best action game of this generation award.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

Personally, I'm hanging out more at IGN's Resident Evil boards. There just isn't anything to argue here which hasn't been argued five to ten times already.

I like how the X-bots are out in force pimping the X-box. That was pretty much expected but.... eh, grow up for a minute folks.

Quick Edit: I played Ninja Gaiden and well, whoever said its combat was akin to Onimusha was right. The game is basically like Onimusha with a jump button. It's not so much like DMC because the emphasis in that game was air juggles and run n' gun combat. The combat of Ninja Gaiden is based more on blocking and counterattacking. It's strategic and all but I'd still give Viewtiful Joe the best action game of this generation award.

Ohhhh sure Slade...lol.

[Cuddly Knife]

hey Peanut, aside from the Killer7, GT4, MetalGear stuff everybody knows about, what other big titles are dropping on PS2 this year? Exclusive, of course.
Well, I don't usually buy the games that are what everyone wants. I like games that are more suited to my playing styles. Like these:

There Silent Hill: the room, Space Channel Five part 2, DDRMAX Extreme, Onimusha 3, Seven Samurai, Final Fantasy 12, R-Type: Final, Gradius 5. With the exception of maybe Onimusha, all of these are exclusives.

Is Serious Sam also coming out on the XBOX? I've only seen stuff saying that It's going to be on the PS2. Is that game even gonna be played because of Doom 3 and Halo 2 coming out soon-ish?

[EvilSonyCorpHenchman]

Personally, I'm hanging out more at IGN's Resident Evil boards. There just isn't anything to argue here which hasn't been argued five to ten times already.

I like how the X-bots are out in force pimping the X-box. That was pretty much expected but.... eh, grow up for a minute folks.

Quick Edit: I played Ninja Gaiden and well, whoever said its combat was akin to Onimusha was right. The game is basically like Onimusha with a jump button. It's not so much like DMC because the emphasis in that game was air juggles and run n' gun combat. The combat of Ninja Gaiden is based more on blocking and counterattacking. It's strategic and all but I'd still give Viewtiful Joe the best action game of this generation award.

Bashing Xbox is worse than beating a dead horse. It's like digging up a grave. It was a valiant effort, Systems Wars has been officially over for 2 years, and the dead deserve respect. :D

[Deathstroke]

Bashing Xbox is worse than beating a dead horse. It's like digging up a grave. It was a valiant effort, Systems Wars has been officially over for 2 years, and the dead deserve respect. :D

You know what's really funny, all the talking Daman is doing about how innovative Ninja Gaiden is. That's a laff riot, right there. And yeah, System Wars was over before X-box even came out. Hell, the next round may well be over even as we speak what with all the talk of how MS is gutting X-box 2. If it doesn't have backwards compatibility at least, I'm not even going near it.

Oh and Daman, trust me when I say you don't want to get into a DMC vs. Ninja Gaiden vs. Viewtiful Joe comparison with me. You don't know nearly enough about the genre to survive and unlike you, I've played all three games.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

You know what's really funny, all the talking Daman is doing about how innovative Ninja Gaiden is. That's a laff riot, right there. And yeah, System Wars was over before X-box even came out. Hell, the next round may well be over even as we speak what with all the talk of how MS is gutting X-box 2. If it doesn't have backwards compatibility at least, I'm not even going near it.

Oh and Daman, trust me when I say you don't want to get into a DMC vs. Ninja Gaiden vs. Viewtiful Joe comparison with me. You don't know nearly enough about the genre to survive and unlike you, I've played all three games.

Can you please take some time out from your studies of Resident Evil(talk about a dead horse, this is what has been occupying your time, sad), and tell us how awful NG is compared to DMC and Vietiful Joe.

But first oh GamingProphet, can you explain your blasphemous statement, that Ninja Gaiden is just like Onimusha. Cause that statement alone is a crock of BS that makes me think you are lying about playing Ninja Gaiden. Because I played Onimusha from start to end, and i'm only Chapter 11 of Ninja Gaiden, they have nothing in common aside from absorbing souls, and they both carry a sword. Oh did you say, they both can block, and that makes then similar.

Let me tell you how they are dissimilar, Mr.I'mTooGoodToExplainMyself. Onimusha's level's were prerendered 2D background pictures, that the character was superimposed over. Every few steps in Onimusha, a new picture or area had to be loaded. You couldn't even interact with the levels, no jumping on things or going up and downstairs. The enemies, aside from the bosses fought all just about the same. Comparing Onimusha to NinjaGaiden, is like comparing Halo to Doom, or the original Castlewolfenstein. It just ashame though that Onimusha is a current game, while Doom is a classic.

But go ahead oh GamingMaster, and tell us how DMC is just as good as Ninja Gaiden, meanwhile, just about every single media source all collectively agree Ninja Gaiden is the best in this genre ever. Now, independent reviews alone mean little. But when all the media sites collectively say the same thing, then that pretty much means something. Especially when its all the biggest review sites, IGN, GAMESPOT, GAMESPY and so on. But, as usual, nobody asked you, so its not official until you say so.

Oh and save, the comparison to Viewtiful Joe. I wouldn't even compare the two games, and nobody is arguing Viewtiful Joe isn't a good game. But who would even compare Ninja Gaiden to Viewtiful Joe. This is you, trying to make a stretch, because nothing on PS2 even comes close to NG.

But, i'm glad you and Tashi are having a good time, too bad the industry has passed you two by. I mean Tashi lost all credibility with his laments about how great EnterTheMatrix was, that is sad.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

Well, I don't usually buy the games that are what everyone wants. I like games that are more suited to my playing styles. Like these:

There Silent Hill: the room, Space Channel Five part 2, DDRMAX Extreme, Onimusha 3, Seven Samurai, Final Fantasy 12, R-Type: Final, Gradius 5. With the exception of maybe Onimusha, all of these are exclusives.

Is Serious Sam also coming out on the XBOX? I've only seen stuff saying that It's going to be on the PS2. Is that game even gonna be played because of Doom 3 and Halo 2 coming out soon-ish?

No, I don't think Onimusha will be making any more appearances on the XBOX. The first one pretty much tanked on XBOX. SeriousSam has been available on XBOX for a few years now. You can probably pick it up used for about $20 or less, it got good reviews on XBOX, I didn't like it myself, reminded me too much of the old Doom games.

[EvilSonyCorpHenchman]

You know what's really funny, all the talking Daman is doing about how innovative Ninja Gaiden is. That's a laff riot, right there. And yeah, System Wars was over before X-box even came out. Hell, the next round may well be over even as we speak what with all the talk of how MS is gutting X-box 2. If it doesn't have backwards compatibility at least, I'm not even going near it.

Oh and Daman, trust me when I say you don't want to get into a DMC vs. Ninja Gaiden vs. Viewtiful Joe comparison with me. You don't know nearly enough about the genre to survive and unlike you, I've played all three games.

"Here let me get that" *ESCH picks up the gauntlet that was thrown down*

So what's going on on the RE boards? I read RE4 has no zombies, a pseudo 1st person view, no more Umbrella and lots more features like a really tight targeting system to make it more skill oriented. Like if you shoot a guy in the leg, he'll limp. That's gotta be causing a buzz. Oh btw, you gonna get Outbreak?

["The Game"Evolution]

Personally, I'm hanging out more at IGN's Resident Evil boards. There just isn't anything to argue here which hasn't been argued five to ten times already.

I like how the X-bots are out in force pimping the X-box. That was pretty much expected but.... eh, grow up for a minute folks.

Quick Edit: I played Ninja Gaiden and well, whoever said its combat was akin to Onimusha was right. The game is basically like Onimusha with a jump button. It's not so much like DMC because the emphasis in that game was air juggles and run n' gun combat. The combat of Ninja Gaiden is based more on blocking and counterattacking. It's strategic and all but I'd still give Viewtiful Joe the best action game of this generation award.

First off nobody is force pimping the Xbox these days.The games themselves is speaking loud and clear.No game in a long time has ever come along that just about everyone agreed was a kick ass game for any console.But Ninja Gaiden was that game.The only one thats showing very little maturity is you Slade.

Ninja Gaiden is totally above and beyond Onimusha.Onimusha didnt even receive rave reviews like NG did.Not even close.Even the combat of NG is totally ten times tougher than Onimusha ever was.

NG and Onimusha shouldnt even be mentioned in the same sentence.Plus like I said before,if VJ was all that how come I didnt see it anywhere when it was time for GOTY awards to be given? VJ was a flash in the pan.Just like RS III and just about anything else that was on the GC.Its was all about Zelda.

Quietly the best action game of this generation is Halo.And Ninja Gaiden is right behind that.

[EvilSonyCorpHenchman]

But, i'm glad you and Tashi are having a good time, too bad the industry has passed you two by. I mean Tashi lost all credibility with his laments about how great EnterTheMatrix was, that is sad.

I'm having a ball thanks. Bashing Xbox and striking nerves are my favorite hobbies. Care to post the links to what I never said? But it's ok. You make up stuff all the time so no worries that you can't find it.

["The Game"Evolution]

I'll tell you why:

1. Most VGR members own more than 1 console. How can you mindlessly bash a console that you own?

2. All the consoles now have well rounded libraries. You can't diss the Kitty Cube because it has several super violent games. You can't diss the PC-in-a-Box because it has several exclusive games. You can't diss the BS2 because it has several games that look every bit as great as the "superior" consoles.

I predict that System Wars will continue to die down for the next year. Then as we get rumors and specs of the next gen. consoles things will pick right back up. And once the next gen. consoles are released System Wars will return to it's mindless console flaming origin. The new consoles will only have a handful of launch titles therefore making them susceptible to insults of their lacking libraries.

Only then will System Wars be returned to all its glory. Flame on my VGR friends...

There is nothing really interesting in the videogame news these days.Plus Ninja Gaiden has been the biggest game topic since its debut a little over a week ago.Other than that there is nothing on any other system for now worth even talking about.Nada.

You think that System Wars will continue to be like this for the next year? Dont count on it.Its called System Wars is going through a recession thats all.When the right subject comes along that alot of us dont see eye to eye on business indeed will pick up.Right now its all about the games.Thus far only NG shines the brightest over anything on the PS2 or the GC.Thats not fiction,thats a fact.

[Deathstroke]

But first oh GamingProphet, can you explain your blasphemous statement, that Ninja Gaiden is just like Onimusha. Cause that statement alone is a crock of BS that makes me think you are lying about playing Ninja Gaiden. Because I played Onimusha from start to end, and i'm only Chapter 11 of Ninja Gaiden, they have nothing in common aside from absorbing souls, and they both carry a sword. Oh did you say, they both can block, and that makes then similar.

Quick question, you play Onimusha 2.

:::Gasp:::: Yes, there is an Onimusha 2. Go look up the term Issen Counters.

Oh and I'm bringing up Viewtiful Joe because of your rather inane statements that NG is the best action game of all time and has redefined the genre.

Good bye now.

So what's going on on the RE boards? I read RE4 has no zombies, a pseudo 1st person view, no more Umbrella and lots more features like a really tight targeting system to make it more skill oriented. Like if you shoot a guy in the leg, he'll limp. That's gotta be causing a buzz.

You should see the flamewars erupt. LOL!!!!

It's funny watching people get all huffy when they only know about maybe 5 percent of the game and say it is going to be crap. I swear it's like Windwaker all over again. You should see this guy that accused everybody else of not being true RE fans because they wanted the game to change.

My own personal opinion is that this is RE but with the Survival aspects multiplied ten fold. From the IGN writeup, zombies are gone but they have been replaced by smarter enemies who have been infected by something or other. You should really read that writeup and the Gamespot one too. They make few points that are dissimilar but it's all good. The game is looking pretty .... err..... pretty as well.

["The Game"Evolution]

I'm having a ball thanks. Bashing Xbox and striking nerves are my favorite hobbies. Care to post the links to what I never said? But it's ok. You make up stuff all the time so no worries that you can't find it.

So far its got the award for the worst game of 2004 so far.Care to umm talk about that? Since you love striking nerves so much and bashing Xbox games.Since Xbox owners like myself currently has the mega hit Ninja Gaiden to play.What games currently on the PS2 has been making noise thats out right now? Care to comment?(crickets churping)

[Deathstroke]

I'm having a ball thanks. Bashing Xbox and striking nerves are my favorite hobbies. Care to post the links to what I never said? But it's ok. You make up stuff all the time so no worries that you can't find it.

LOL, you know he's probably dipping into the archives to find your nonexistant post as we type. I don't know what it is about this kid but he likes making stuff up on the fly.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

I'm having a ball thanks. Bashing Xbox and striking nerves are my favorite hobbies. Care to post the links to what I never said? But it's ok. You make up stuff all the time so no worries that you can't find it.

No I don't. I really don't care about digging back through past posts just to prove you wrong. You wrote, not unless your dog, hopped on your PC and logged in as you and typed it. But, stranger things have happened. The bottomline is, it is cool that you enjoyed EnterTheMatrix. Do you, if that's your style cool. If Resident Evil is Slade's style cool. If bashing XBOX is your style cool.

But skip all that jack. Let's talk about the games. You say the XBOX was dead 2 years ago, well, that's a closely kept secret. Nobody told TECMO when they dropped a bomb squarely in the genre that you and Slade and guys like you on PS2 just love. But now that the best game in this genre is on XBOX, I know that just pushes your buttons on a deep level, and I love it.

I love it, Slade compares Ninja Gaiden to Onimusha and DMC, I love it. I would tend to garner that guys who even have PS2 and enjoy it, who indeed enjoyed DMC and Onimusha, would have the honesty to say Ninja Gaiden is on another level compared to those games.

I played Onimusha from start to finish, this was the so-called upgraded XBOX version. And I was surprised a next generation game was using pre-rendered backgrounds, this was in 2001, and Slade wants to compare it to NG and say he played NG. Ooookay. Slade is right, this isn't my genre, Ninja Gaiden I love, but i'll tell you, after next week I will be over this game, so long see ya later. But I don't have to be a Japanese action game afficionado to see the naked truth. Ninja Gaiden is the best game in this genre EVER. So just bite down hard and deal with it.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

So far its got the award for the worst game of 2004 so far.Care to umm talk about that? Since you love striking nerves so much and bashing Xbox games.Since Xbox owners like myself currently has the mega hit Ninja Gaiden to play.What games currently on the PS2 has been making noise thats out right now? Care to comment?(crickets churping)

As I recall, you were a big fan of Devil May Cry and Onimusha, am I not correct. So, granted I'm a fanboy, and when I say Onimusha sucks, i'm just being a fanboy. But seeing as how you liked the series. Tell us what you think about Ninja Gaiden compared to those two games, hell you may as well throw in Tenchu and Shinobi on PS2 as well. Where does NG rank amongst those games in your opinion?

And, I played Ninja Gaiden and Onimusha, I don't think they have much in common aside from the fact they both use swords. But ya boy Slade, thinks they have a lot in common. Who's on crack, me or him? I mean level design and interaction, weapons, enemies, combat, can you explain, what he won't or can't?

[EvilSonyCorpHenchman]

LOL, you know he's probably dipping into the archives to find your nonexistant post as we type. I don't know what it is about this kid but he likes making stuff up on the fly.

LOL yeah you'll find that post right next to weapons of mass destruction and the 11th commandment that states thou shalt not say Ninja Gaiden is not the best game ever.

["The Game"Evolution]

No I don't. I really don't care about digging back through past posts just to prove you wrong. You wrote, not unless your dog, hopped on your PC and logged in as you and typed it. But, stranger things have happened. The bottomline is, it is cool that you enjoyed EnterTheMatrix. Do you, if that's your style cool. If Resident Evil is Slade's style cool. If bashing XBOX is your style cool.

But skip all that jack. Let's talk about the games. You say the XBOX was dead 2 years ago, well, that's a closely kept secret. Nobody told TECMO when they dropped a bomb squarely in the genre that you and Slade and guys like you on PS2 just love. But now that the best game in this genre is on XBOX, I know that just pushes your buttons on a deep level, and I love it.

I love it, Slade compares Ninja Gaiden to Onimusha and DMC, I love it. I would tend to garner that guys who even have PS2 and enjoy it, who indeed enjoyed DMC and Onimusha, would have the honesty to say Ninja Gaiden is on another level compared to those games.

I played Onimusha from start to finish, this was the so-called upgraded XBOX version. And I was surprised a next generation game was using pre-rendered backgrounds, this was in 2001, and Slade wants to compare it to NG and say he played NG. Ooookay. Slade is right, this isn't my genre, Ninja Gaiden I love, but i'll tell you, after next week I will be over this game, so long see ya later. But I don't have to be a Japanese action game afficionado to see the naked truth. Ninja Gaiden is the best game in this genre EVER. So just bite down hard and deal with it.

Good post.Way to shove it up the rear of Mr.Slade and rest of the clueless ass-clowns around here spewing such nonsense.

[Deathstroke]

Hey, about RE4, you know that you can actually strike enemies now. It apparently has to do with you rushing up to them after having shot them the first time. I like the feature considering that there are going to be dozens of these thugs coming after you.

http://watch.impress.co.jp/game/docs/20040317/bio10.jpg

[no.1gamer]

Everyone should go check out the Resident Evil 4 thread over in the Gamecube section. Unless of course you don't have a Gamecube, because Resident Evil 4 is exclusive to it. And if you're an Xbot and you can't comprehend what the word exclusive means, it also won't be appearing on the PC.

Resident Evil 4 Details (http://forums.videogamereview.com/showthread.php?t=1990&page=1&pp=25)

Props to Slade for posting all the info. and screenshots from various sites.

And listening to some people knock Resident Evil then continue to hype up any Resident Evil wannabe Silent Hill game is laughable.

[Deathstroke]

As I recall, you were a big fan of Devil May Cry and Onimusha, am I not correct. So, granted I'm a fanboy, and when I say Onimusha sucks, i'm just being a fanboy. But seeing as how you liked the series. Tell us what you think about Ninja Gaiden compared to those two games, hell you may as well throw in Tenchu and Shinobi on PS2 as well. Where does NG rank amongst those games in your opinion?

And, I played Ninja Gaiden and Onimusha, I don't think they have much in common aside from the fact they both use swords. But ya boy Slade, thinks they have a lot in common. Who's on crack, me or him? I mean level design and interaction, weapons, enemies, combat, can you explain, what he won't or can't?

Hey Daman_He_Hate_Games_he_never_played, I have a better idea. Go look at some of the posts in AOE's Ninja Gaiden thread. The combat of this game is very much like Onimusha; reliant on blocks and counters. Not that I count that against the game because I personally love Onimusha's combat but stop hypothesizing about a genre you admittedly know nothing about.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

LOL, you know he's probably dipping into the archives to find your nonexistant post as we type. I don't know what it is about this kid but he likes making stuff up on the fly.

Dude, I learned a long time ago, you two will say anything and never stand behind it. What you just now said about Ninja Gaiden, 6 months from now, you will be saying you never said. I just wanna hear more from you about your opinion of NG. I mean your not making much sense my boy. Exactly what level are you on?

Or wait, I figured it out. You got that special edition Onimusha that nobody else got, right, that post release version they sent especially to you. Either that or you was on some serious chronic when you was playing Onimusha, making you think the game was in 3D or something..man, just say no to drugs.

come on Slade, pleeeeeease tell us more about Ninja Gaiden, please make more comparisons, so we can all see how much BULL you are made of.

[Deathstroke]

Pah, already beat you to it. Now, be a good little boy and go read the post right above the one you just posted.

[Deathstroke]

Everyone should go check out the Resident Evil 4 thread over in the Gamecube section. Unless of course you don't have a Gamecube, because Resident Evil 4 is exclusive to it. And if you're an Xbot and you can't comprehend what the word exclusive means, it also won't be appearing on the PC.

Resident Evil 4 Details (http://forums.videogamereview.com/showthread.php?t=1990&page=1&pp=25)

Props to Slade for posting all the info. and screenshots from various sites.

And listening to some people knock Resident Evil then continue to hype up any Resident Evil wannabe Silent Hill game is laughable.

Heh thanks. After hijacking two threads on this forum, I just decided to create a comprehensive database of info on the GC forums. Much of it contradicts itself but that's the nature of rumors, especially over a game that is being as closely guarded as this one.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

"Quick Edit: I played Ninja Gaiden and well, whoever said its combat was akin to Onimusha was right. The game is basically like Onimusha with a jump button." -Slade

Did you mention, Onimusha2, no you didn't. Oh i'm sorry I didn't read between the lines of your BS. Let me go back and read between the lines, okay, now reading between the lines, I WOULD STILL COME AWAY WITH THE FACT YOU SAID ONIMUSHA. But now, i'm making things up, riiiiiiiight.

So, please, now that you corrected your damn self. Please continue to make an arse of yourself, by telling us how, "The game is basically like Onimusha with a jump button."
Go ahead man, continue, don't let us interrupt your vast knowledge.

I like that quote, "The game is basically like Onimusha with a jump button."

LOL. In fact, i'm going to make that the default quote at the bottom of everyone of my posts.

"The game is basically like Onimusha with a jump button." -Slade's review of Ninja Gaiden

This is too funny. What on earth would make you think I would even want to play Onimusha2. I couldn't wait when Onimusha was coming to XBOX to play that game. I kept hearing how great it was, how it was the only real good PS2 game for a year, aside form Madden. When I played that game, I had to laugh to stop from crying. Pre-rendered backgrounds, no jumping, every three steps load another level, repetitive fighting, stupid lame puzzles. Why would I play Onimusha2, even if I had a PS2, what has the developer done to earn even $5 of my money after Onimusha to make me want to play another one?

Unlike you, who as we speak, sit around dreaming all day about dead franchises like RE, I judge a game on its merits. I guess you judge games based on how cool their names sound. I mean Onimusha Warlords, sounded cool as hell, didn't it. Here is a hint, when a game sucks, chances are the sequel will too.

[Cuddly Knife]

I own Devil May Cry, Shinobi, and Onimusha, and while I love all those games and have beaten them all to death, I can say with confidence that Ninja Gaiden blows all those games out of the water. Better story, better graphics, tons more action, longer playing time, harder difficulty, and unlockables put this game above anything else in the genre. It will be very hard for any game in this generation to beat out Ninja Gaiden. I seriously doubt Onimusha 3 will match up. The only possible contender could be Devil May Cry 3, but that's also a long shot.

[yacobschlomo]

The combat in Ninja Gaiden is much, much more complex than Onimusha 2. I'm up to level 11 in this game and it just keeps getting better. I put significant time into both Onimusha 2 and DMC and I have to say that the combat system, level design, and enemies in those games aren't as good as NG. Don't judge this game until you have gotten deep into it. I rarely use blocks and counters on any enemies. The only exception were those black Ninjas. I prefer quick attacks to take down enemies and then absorbing the yellow orbs to perform more powerful attacks. There are so many different types of enemies in this game and each one requires a different type of strategy to beat.

[Deathstroke]

Well, I am dearly and sorely sorry that I mistook you for an intelligent human being. Yes, I meant Onimusha 2 but I guess Onimusha applies just as well because its core combat shaped Onimusha 2. Now, since we're going around pointing fingers, here's one right back at ya':

From the Midway thread:

And like someone above said, Ninja Gaiden, is different, it genre busting. It does what Onimusha, Shinobi, Tenchu, and DMC didn't do, re-invented the genre from level design, to CG, to combat, to graphics, everything.

Now, this man is talking about a genre he knows nothing about which pretty much invalidates this statement. So, we've got to look at motive. Why would this man say something like this? And the clear conclusion is, fanboyism. You know, I thought we were done with all this but as long as people like you and the Game continue to hang around here, I guess we'll never be completely free of the flaming.

Now please, just because this is an X-box game doesn't mean that it is revolutionary or even that it re-invented the genre. I swear you classify nearly all X-box games you play as some gift from the gaming gods but don't even want to listen to anyone that might know better. In this instance, that's me.

[Deathstroke]

I rarely use blocks and counters on any enemies.

Could be why you were having a hard time with it. I blasted up to stage four fairly quick. And I only used the quick move strategy you talk about once or twice. Saying that, I only got up to stage four, considering that it was on my friends X-box.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

Hey Daman_He_Hate_Games_he_never_played, I have a better idea. Go look at some of the posts in AOE's Ninja Gaiden thread. The combat of this game is very much like Onimusha; reliant on blocks and counters. Not that I count that against the game because I personally love Onimusha's combat but stop hypothesizing about a genre you admittedly know nothing about.

Come on dude, admit it. You said something completely stupid and regret it. Just admit it and move on. Don't deny it. And stop lying about playing Ninja Gaiden.

If you had played Ninja Gaiden, why are you relying on the quoted opinions of others instead of your own opinion. If you had played Ninja Gaiden, you never would of said something so stupid.

To say a game is similar to another just because you have to block or use defensive tactics is stupid. The game relies on wall running and jumping from enemy to enemy, inter-mixed melee and ranged attacks, a variety of weapons, just as well. And there is more to what makes NG good and better than anything else aside from just the fighting. But, tell us Slade, you played the game, exactly what level are you on, what tactics are you using?

Just like before when you talked about RedFaction, claiming it was as good as Halo, then finally admitting you never played it. Ditto with Burnout. You finally admitted, "oh I don't play FPS and Racers." Just like you didn't play those games, you haven't played this one. You don't have to say it, your own words betray you.

Come back next week.

"The game is basically like Onimusha with a jump button." -Slade's Review of Ninja Gaiden

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

Well, I am dearly and sorely sorry that I mistook you for an intelligent human being. Yes, I meant Onimusha 2 but I guess Onimusha applies just as well because its core combat shaped Onimusha 2. Now, since we're going around pointing fingers, here's one right back at ya':

From the Midway thread:



Now, this man is talking about a genre he knows nothing about which pretty much invalidates this statement. So, we've got to look at motive. Why would this man say something like this? And the clear conclusion is, fanboyism. You know, I thought we were done with all this but as long as people like you and the Game continue to hang around here, I guess we'll never be completely free of the flaming.

Now please, just because this is an X-box game doesn't mean that it is revolutionary or even that it re-invented the genre. I swear you classify nearly all X-box games you play as some gift from the gaming gods but don't even want to listen to anyone that might know better. In this instance, that's me.

I'm just going to shut-up and let everyone else pile on top of your stupid comments. So now, its myself, Game, and Yacobschlomo, that don't know what we are talking about. Let's see how many more people are wrong, while only you stand with the proper opinion.

"The game is basically like Onimusha with a jump button" - Slade's Review of Ninja Gaiden

[Deathstroke]

All right, I'm going to go right ahead and ask one question that is going to invalidate just about everybody's argument against me:

So tell me guys, is there only one way to play Ninja Gaiden, combat wise that is? You may have used the run n' gun technique but comeon, take a deeper look at Onimusha and you'll see the combat for NG borrows heavily from that game. Yeesh, now I know why I stuck to IGN's boards.

[Deathstroke]

Good job self, you've shut everybody up.

I'll be back in like three weeks.

[EvilSonyCorpHenchman]

Good job self, you've shut everybody up.

I'll be back in like three weeks.

Wha? It's over?!? Dang... sorry I'm at work, and coincidentally they wanted me to work. Damn the man.

[Deathstroke]

Yes, I'm going to go ahead and declare myself undisputed champion of this thread.

[Renzatic Gear]

I AM TEH WINNAR!

Actually the RE board you were talking about sounds exactly like the Thief 3 board I visit, Slade. Something about new sequels to old games really seems to work everyone into a frenzy and bring out the elitist "I'm a true fan! THIS GAME HAS BEEN DUMBED DOWN!" folks.

Course for Thief 3 everyone is saying that the old LGS team that went to ISA has sold out to Microsoft and dumbed the game down for the Xbox. This is all based on an advertisment and 4 screenshots. Hardcore fans are stupid.

[Gadfly2317]

1.) Everyone has been busy playing Ninja Gaiden
2.) It is spring break.
3.) there's no news to discuss because they companies are holding out for E3 for surprises.

As far as games, I see the xbots are out in force. . . . I'm going to have to join them and add one thing, xbox is going to own June if the release dates stay solid. Fable, Oddworld, AND Starcraft Ghost (best version of multi-plat game.)

PS2 sure isn't putting out anything that's making me salivate.

GC. . . Zelda: Four Swords, Custom Robo (played it today, pretty cool), I picked up Harvest Moon today, its got Tales of Symphonia coming up, Wario Ware GC, Pikmin in July, and Killer 7 and Resident Evil IV towards the end of the year. I'm looking forward to E3 because I know there are several other cool titles we are going to get to see.

Hopefully this should be a good year for both the second place systems. Looking at what's coming out on GC and Xbox this year makes me thrilled to own both, because they both have truly great and unique games, and the two consoles are so different from each other. PS2 and xbox sometimes share so many titles in common that the PS2 is starting to seem like the poorman's xbox.

[Deathstroke]

snip

Yeah, it's crazy especially since you know the complaints are all gonna disappear when the game finally does come out and people have no choice but to accept the inevitable. There's even one fan on the RE boards going around saying that every bit of info we've gotten for the game thus far is false and is a joke by Capcom. I for one am optimistic about the changes especially since RE0 felt kinda like I was just going through the motions. It had some nice gimmicks but they couldn't overcome the gameplay which is beginning to wear thin right now.

Oh and another question to yacobschlomo and Peanut Juice, read Daman's quote about Ninja Gaiden. Tell me if you agree with it and why? Is Ninja Gaiden a reinvention of the genre from all the perspectives he talked about or are you just playing a prettier and somewhat deeper Onimusha or DMC?

Oh and the level design comment, I personally liked DMC's gothic interiors much better. It fit the mood of the game.

Oh and let me just add that the only thing NG has really re-invented has been enemy AI which is a lot better then the one in previous Action games.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

Yes, I'm going to go ahead and declare myself undisputed champion of this thread.

Dude, you are only chapter 4. You've just entered Tairon. Everything you saw in the first 3 levels, just throw it out the window. The game is going to completely change. When you get further into the game, you will be able to answer your own question, and even an pompous self-gratifying person like yourself, should be man enough to admit, how completely wrong you were. When you enter the tomb underneath the church, dude the game is just gonna open up.

Champion of this thread, in case you weren't keeping score, you just got waxed. NOBODY agreed with you. Now crawl back to your IGN boards, and only come back when you get some common sense.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

1.) Everyone has been busy playing Ninja Gaiden
2.) It is spring break.
3.) there's no news to discuss because they companies are holding out for E3 for surprises.

As far as games, I see the xbots are out in force. . . . I'm going to have to join them and add one thing, xbox is going to own June if the release dates stay solid. Fable, Oddworld, AND Starcraft Ghost (best version of multi-plat game.)

PS2 sure isn't putting out anything that's making me salivate.

GC. . . Zelda: Four Swords, Custom Robo (played it today, pretty cool), I picked up Harvest Moon today, its got Tales of Symphonia coming up, Wario Ware GC, Pikmin in July, and Killer 7 and Resident Evil IV towards the end of the year. I'm looking forward to E3 because I know there are several other cool titles we are going to get to see.

Hopefully this should be a good year for both the second place systems. Looking at what's coming out on GC and Xbox this year makes me thrilled to own both, because they both have truly great and unique games, and the two consoles are so different from each other. PS2 and xbox sometimes share so many titles in common that the PS2 is starting to seem like the poorman's xbox.

Where does Ninja Gaiden stack up compared to the other games in this genre Gadfly? I'm guessing you've probably already played DMC, DMC2, Onimusha1&2, Shinobi. Just curious, cause some seem to think the game is "The game is basically like Onimusha with a jump button."

"PS2 and xbox sometimes share so many titles in common that the PS2 is starting to seem like the poorman's xbox" that's funny as hell. Crazy me though, I always thought this about the PS2. But, hey i'm just an XBOT.

[Deathstroke]

Dude, you are only chapter 4. You've just entered Tairon. Everything you saw in the first 3 levels, just throw it out the window. The game is going to completely change. When you get further into the game, you will be able to answer your own question, and even an pompous self-gratifying person like yourself, should be man enough to admit, how completely wrong you were. When you enter the tomb underneath the church, dude the game is just gonna open up.

Champion of this thread, in case you weren't keeping score, you just got waxed. NOBODY agreed with you. Now crawl back to your IGN boards, and only come back when you get some common sense.

Errr, last time I looked, you totally avoided what I called you on. They may not have agreed with me but that doesn't change my opinion and there's no disputing the fact that my opinion is more informed then yours especially as concerns this genre and this game. Oh and I went to bat for this game and I like it and all but this is no reinvention of the genre. Finally, I still say that the combat is derived heavily from Capcom's games.

[no.1gamer]

Wow! You Xbots have brain washed Gadfly! I can't believe he's bragging about multiplatform games in the Xbox's defense?!?! It's a false argument that you Xbots need to stop using anyway. The last multiplatform game I bought was 007 Everything or Nothing, and the WORST version was on the Xbox. Don't listen to them Gadfly! Save yourself!!!

And what is wrong with pre-rendered backgrounds Daman? I think that 2D backdrops can bring a level of photo realism unequaled by full 3D environments. Resident Evil and Resident Evil 0 are the 2 most atmospheric games of this generation. The level of detail in pre-rendered backgrounds is not possible with in full 3D. Plus the lighting effects blows any 3D game out of the water. Am I the only one who feels this way? It's also a nice change of pace from the countless 3D games that have been showing up the last few years. Viewtiful Joe was another welcome change in my book. RE4 will feature full 3D though. Are you guys feeling me on this one or am I alone? I hope developers will continue to use their creativity with 2 Dimensions. It has advantages and disadvantages over 3D of course. But why are you so anti-2D gaming Daman?

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

<b>Oh and another question to yacobschlomo and Peanut Juice, read Daman's quote about Ninja Gaiden. Tell me if you agree with it and why? Is Ninja Gaiden a reinvention of the genre from all the perspectives he talked about or are you just playing a prettier and somewhat deeper Onimusha or DMC?</b> -Slade

Combat & Weapons. I know you haven't gotten any other weapons yet, after chapter 4 you will have nunchuka, axe, broad sword, vigoran flails(chucks with blades), Doku's magic sword, wooden sword, windmill shuriken, bow with 3 types of arrows, explosive shurikens, harpoon gun. Now, equip each weapon, go into the menu screen hit Y, and see all the combinations specific to each weapon. See how different all the weapons play, as far as speed, weight, combos, damage, magic. Tell me how this compares to Onimusha, and DMC.

Maps & Graphics. How you can compare these levels to Onimusha, I know not. Onimusha2, if it changed to 3D, polygon based maps, cool. But are they as big and expansive, interactive, and beautiful as NG? Before you answer that, remember, you just got off the airship, which was probably the worst level in the game. You've just scratched the surface, and the levels become huge. Now, think about all the enemies in the game. Again, if you are on level 4, you haven't seen much of the enemies in the game. And bosses, if DMC had bosses with this many polys and such beautiful detail, then I guess it wasn't the same DMC I saw.

Enemy & Boss AI. I didn't play DMC. But I played Onimusha 1. The fighting was repetitive, the enemy routines were simple and easily defeated. The boss battles were extremely hard, but that is only cause you had to figure out some trick for each one. In NG, the enemies are clever, of course they are routine based, but they attack in groups of varied enemies(mostly) so you can't usually employ one technique. Also one technique wont necesarily be successful against another set of enemies. And there is always more than one way to fight the enemy. Just go over and read the threads and see how everyone was doing things differently. You have over 10 weapons at your disposal.

Graphics and Audio. I hope we don't even have to go there...

Oh and puzzles. While the puzzles are not revolutionary, they are not wicked either. They go with the flow and them of the game, and are logical. There is nothing revolutionary about the puzzles in this game, which is cool with me, just let puzzles break up the pace and action of the game, not be the focus.

Man, you are only on chapter 4. All you have is the dragon sword, the only enemies you've faced, aside from bosses are the sorry soldiers. My boy, you got a looooooong way to go. You don't even have the nunchuka yet, lol.

[Cuddly Knife]

Oh and another question to yacobschlomo and Peanut Juice, read Daman's quote about Ninja Gaiden. Tell me if you agree with it and why? Is Ninja Gaiden a reinvention of the genre from all the perspectives he talked about or are you just playing a prettier and somewhat deeper Onimusha or DMC?


I'd have to say that is is more of a re-invention than an upgrade. When you sit down and actually play it for more than just a few stages, you see that <u>this is not the same old, only slightly updated. It's a new experience, in the same old genre.</u> That's what makes it unique.
1. Instead of having one main weapon and a few others that can be used, but usually aren't because they can't hold their own, Ninja Gaiden offers more than five weapons that the user can master and use throughout the whole game if they wish to master one. Or all of them.
2. The levels are more than just hallways and big rooms. They are villages, churches, military bases, underground caverns, and large cities, a blimp, and more. And the detail in each is amazing. Very small loading times as well. That's nice.
3. The variety of enemies is also impressive. You don't just have three types of enemies and then a bunch of similar looking ones throughout the whole game, there are ninjas, zombies, worms, a number of skeleton beasties, army men, creepy flying things, other creepy flying things, cyborgs, karate guys, and more and more.
4.The combo system that NG uses is so much more than block-and-counter. The amount of combos is more than all those other games combined! For reals. You could take the defensive if you want to, but you could also go in sword(or hammer) swinging, or run for your life. Nothing in this game is used as a gimmick. Especially the wall-run.
5. There is a lot more offered in this game than in most as far as re-playability. Along with the original Ninja Gaiden games to unlock, there are other suits, sound tests, movies gallery and probably more.

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

Wow! You Xbots have brain washed Gadfly! I can't believe he's bragging about multiplatform games in the Xbox's defense?!?! It's a false argument that you Xbots need to stop using anyway. The last multiplatform game I bought was 007 Everything or Nothing, and the WORST version was on the Xbox. Don't listen to them Gadfly! Save yourself!!!

And what is wrong with pre-rendered backgrounds Daman? I think that 2D backdrops can bring a level of photo realism unequaled by full 3D environments. Resident Evil and Resident Evil 0 are the 2 most atmospheric games of this generation. The level of detail in pre-rendered backgrounds is not possible with in full 3D. Plus the lighting effects blows any 3D game out of the water. Am I the only one who feels this way? It's also a nice change of pace from the countless 3D games that have been showing up the last few years. Viewtiful Joe was another welcome change in my book. RE4 will feature full 3D though. Are you guys feeling me on this one or am I alone? I hope developers will continue to use their creativity with 2 Dimensions. It has advantages and disadvantages over 3D of course. But why are you so anti-2D gaming Daman?

Firstly, if you are going to talk about multiplatform games, why don't you talk about good ones or ones that could possibly be good. Bond? Can you say EA? I don't know if what you say is true or not, but it wouldn't surprise me. EA does the worst job with XBOX games cause they don't care, they basically port PS2 games to XBOX with no changes. It ain't like they tried to make it better and failed.

Now as far as 2D backgrounds. They were cool years ago, I actually preferred the 2D backgrounds of Baldurs Gate, Ice Wind Dale, and Planescape, over the 3D version of Neverwinter Nights. But if you are playing an action game, and you can't walk up stairs, or pull levers and switches, or jump on top of things, it really becomes silly in that kind of setting. I mean you have a character who is a Ninja or a Samauri and he can't even utilize his environment. And you say it isn't possible to obtain the same beauty in a 3D game, okay go look at Ninja Gaiden. Of course, that may not be possible on the PS2. But why should the rest of the industry be limited to only what is possible on the PS2. 3D gaming is where we are today, in fact, it was where the industry was in 2000, if you were on the PC 1997. 2D did its job with games like Age of Empires, Command and Conquer, and so many more, like I said, Baldur's Gate. But that was then, most hardware platforms can create beautiful, believable, interactive, 3D environments. PS2 relied heavily on these kinds of games, Onimusha and Silent Hill and who knows how many others, I think gamers expect more now from the hardware, even PS2's hardware. Especially in an action game.

[yacobschlomo]

Could be why you were having a hard time with it. I blasted up to stage four fairly quick. And I only used the quick move strategy you talk about once or twice. Saying that, I only got up to stage four, considering that it was on my friends X-box.

Who said I was having a hard time with it?

[no.1gamer]

Firstly, if you are going to talk about multiplatform games, why don't you talk about good ones or ones that could possibly be good. Bond? Can you say EA? I don't know if what you say is true or not, but it wouldn't surprise me. EA does the worst job with XBOX games cause they don't care, they basically port PS2 games to XBOX with no changes. It ain't like they tried to make it better and failed.

Now as far as 2D backgrounds. They were cool years ago, I actually preferred the 2D backgrounds of Baldurs Gate, Ice Wind Dale, and Planescape, over the 3D version of Neverwinter Nights. But if you are playing an action game, and you can't walk up stairs, or pull levers and switches, or jump on top of things, it really becomes silly in that kind of setting. I mean you have a character who is a Ninja or a Samauri and he can't even utilize his environment. And you say it isn't possible to obtain the same beauty in a 3D game, okay go look at Ninja Gaiden. Of course, that may not be possible on the PS2. But why should the rest of the industry be limited to only what is possible on the PS2. 3D gaming is where we are today, in fact, it was where the industry was in 2000, if you were on the PC 1997. 2D did its job with games like Age of Empires, Command and Conquer, and so many more, like I said, Baldur's Gate. But that was then, most hardware platforms can create beautiful, believable, interactive, 3D environments. PS2 relied heavily on these kinds of games, Onimusha and Silent Hill and who knows how many others, I think gamers expect more now from the hardware, even PS2's hardware. Especially in an action game.

I agree with most of what you said. But you seem to be avoiding my question. Why have you turned your back on 2D gaming. 2D gaming has advantages and disadvantages. You're right in that some action games (like Ninja Gaiden) use the 3D environments well. But the atmosphere created in Resident Evil and Resident Evil 0 are phenomenal in their own rights. And you're right that "hardware platforms can create beautiful, believable, interactive, 3D environments." But 2D games can look just as beautiful, believable and interactive as 3D settings. You'll not find a single review that doesn't comment on how exceptional REmake and RE0's graphics look. I also think that 2D backgrounds in RPG’s work just as well if not better than 3D backgrounds. So why just completely rule out 2D gaming Daman? How about fighting games?

[yacobschlomo]

Oh and another question to yacobschlomo and Peanut Juice, read Daman's quote about Ninja Gaiden. Tell me if you agree with it and why? Is Ninja Gaiden a reinvention of the genre from all the perspectives he talked about or are you just playing a prettier and somewhat deeper Onimusha or DMC?



Saying that it's a reinvention of the genre may be going too far, but this game is vastly superior to Onimusha and DMC. I don't have the time to go into specifics, but overall the combat is much deeper. Once you try using different weapons on enemies you'll see how you can change your fighting technique with each weapon. The variety of different enemies that are thrown at you on each new level keeps the game very fresh. I'm 15 hours into the game right now and I'm only on level 11. I beat Onimusha 2 in a little less than 6 hours and DMC in just over 10. This game has much more depth. NG adds more to the gamplay with its puzzles and platforming so you don't get tired of constant combat.

If you're only up to level 4 then you shouldn't draw any conclusions about this game yet. After the first 4 levels I still thought that DMC was a better game. I think Gamer should have put more time into the game before writing his "review". This game may not have re-invented the genre, but it sure did improve on it. Can't make any comparisons to Viewtiful Joe since I haven't played it, but VJ seems like a different type of game.

[Bob-the-Fish]

You want to start the war again? I’ll fire a few shots.



lot's of long posts

I guess this is as good a time to join the fray as any...

I give Ninja Gaiden props. Team Ninja made a game that is in fact hard, a quality very lacking in the action games of today. They also made one of the most realistic looking games we have ever seen. The combat is developed well enough so that one can learn to master all the little intricacies a whip out some truly badazz combos. The enemies act in ways that make them actually seem semi intelligent instead of mindlessly rushing towards you or standing around waiting to be hacked to pieces.

And now that I've gotten that out of the way-

This game is not teh gr347est g4me EVAR!1!! Notice how I said it had the "most realistic" looking graphics. Not the best. It is very possible to make a game that has outstanding visuals without them being photo-realistic. Games are often more involving when they are stylized because that helps set the tone. There is a certain GC game that did this quite well.

I am still marveling at the fantastic detail of all the environments, and at the same time wondering why my 3 foot long super powerful dragon sword has no effect if I swing at it. All the environments I’ve seen are pretty much just static backgrounds in 3-D. Also, the city looks nice but it is completely empty. A complete ghost town populated only by an infinite supply of black robed ninjas who apparently live on the roof. I know a smart person would hide, but still wouldn't you see a face here or that poor guy who got caught out after dark going for a late night snack at Wendy's there? And how do you stowaway on an airship that has nobody on it? Someone is bound to get a little suspicious if this huge dirigible come flying into town with nobody on it.

But back to the game itself. The levels are completely and utterly linear. There are no variable paths or alternate solutions. Intelligence is not rewarded, only perfection. Everything, absolutely everything, must be done in exactly one way. And that means run down the path and kill whatever gets in your way until you get to that door. Oh wait you can't open that door, you need to find the key first. Man, I've never played that before. That's some real innovation there.
Sure you can shoot the bone zombies before you try and run along the narrow catwalk past the swinging spike balls, but either way you're going down that walkway. And have I mentioned that while you’re running on that walkway, the camera will make sure it points in the perfect direction to make it virtually impossible to jump in the correct direction to avoid the little gap in the bridge? Or those nice shots you get of the wall while a swarm of ninjas is hacking at you?

And that combat is fun guys. Especially when you realize you only need one set of moves to defeat pretty much every enemy you come across. Why bother running on the wall and all that if I can just hold block and then counter at certain intervals? Saves life for those boss battles. Sure in the later levels you need to adapt that strategy a bit, but not dramatically. Hack n’ slash with a block button. No wait, no “hack n’ slash,” that’s wrong. It’s Slice n’ Dice. Some more astounding innovation.

This is getting long, and I haven’t even mentioned that earth-shattering plot that ties all this slicing and dicing together. Oh it’s a real good one. See there’s this village of ninjas that have to protect this super sword. And, OH MY LORD, they’re all killed by this big mysterious demon guy who takes the sword! No doubt he will use it to rain death and suffering on the world so it falls on the “last” survivor, a lower level ninja still learning the ropes who, gasp! is the son of the ninja entrusted with guarding the sword. So he goes off on his one-man crusade to destroy this evil monster and of course meets this girl, wearing the required leather thong, who is also after the demon guy. But, of course, she can’t get him, and it falls on our ninja friend’s shoulders to save her. I swear, I must have just written out the plot line to pretty much every action movie ever made. Let’s just throw in a couple boss battles with life bars that fill the bottom of the screen and a healthy dose of respawning ninja-demons that only jump out when the other three are dead and make a game out of it!

And with that comparison, let’s look at a few more. You know that menu you use to switch your weapons, use potions and set your magic? Doesn’t it look an awful lot like the menu from Devil May Cry? The animation when you pick up an item is just a tad familiar as well. I must be mistaken though, because an Xbox game would never borrow anything from that POS2. Everything on the box is new and innovative…

If you’re still reading this tirade, I applaud you. It really is a complete waste of my time to write it and I hope it was just as much a drain on you to read it.

Oh but I ain’t done yet!

I haven’t played a whole lot of action/hack n’ slash/adventure /slice n’ dice/whatever other genre it’s managed to bust. But I did pick up Shinobi a few weeks ago because I knew this would come up and I played Devil May Cry back when it was the greatest hack n’ slash game ever made. I’m impressed with many elements of Ninja Gaiden, I really am. However, I am not any more impressed than I was with those two games. Devil May Cry took a great, dual handgun toting, massive sword wielding, trench coat wearing, corny line spewing character and gave him a world to play in. Nothing was complicated, the plot was barebones action hero stuff, the combat involved whacking stuff till it died, and you had to find rusty keys to get to the boss battles. Exactly like Ninja Gaiden. See what I’m getting at here? Ninja Gainden is a clean airbrushed copy of Devil May Cry. I don’t know how many times I’ve heard that the Gamecube is king of rehash games, so either stop with that or admit it yourself. Many people mention the variety of weapons in NG makes it superior. DMC features two entirely different close combat weapons and a variety of firearms that are each used in different situations.

Now Shinobi is very similar to Ninja Gaiden. Except it actually almost seems like you’re playing a real ninja character not a tank on speed. You can’t block, you can only kill and you better kill fats because that uber sword you’ve got will eat you if it’s not eating enemies. I have to say the story in Shinobi was actually a nice surprise as well. Similar to the avenge your family blah blah blah line, but they through in enough little things to make it interesting. Like the fact you actually have the super sword from the beginning and all the demons you’re fighting are reincarnated souls of the slain members of your own clan. The ninja in Shinobi, like Dante, is also hella cool. He cuts missiles in half, slides down buildings with his sword and strikes cool poses when he finishes all the enemies off while they disintegrate behind him. There is actually a reason why corpse leave little glowing things behind as well.

Anyway, I will reiterate my previous statements that I am enjoying my experience with Ninja Gaiden (as much as you can enjoy game over screens anyway). I’m just not finding in it the be-all-end-all elements that seem to be in everyone else’s copy.

Just like KOTOR :)

[Daman_He_Hate_Me]

I agree with most of what you said. But you seem to be avoiding my question. Why have you turned your back on 2D gaming. 2D gaming has advantages and disadvantages. You're right in that some action games (like Ninja Gaiden) use the 3D environments well. But the atmosphere created in Resident Evil and Resident Evil 0 are phenomenal in their own rights. And you're right that "hardware platforms can create beautiful, believable, interactive, 3D environments." But 2D games can look just as beautiful, believable and interactive as 3D settings. You'll not find a single review that doesn't comment on how exceptional REmake and RE0's graphics look. I also think that 2D backgrounds in RPG’s work just as well if not better than 3D backgrounds. So why just completely rule out 2D gaming Daman? How about fighting games?

It is just the natural evolution of in technology and progress in development techniques. Recently, before the explosive growth of 3D gaming, 2D gaming environments were used to "simulate" a 3D environment. Of course, years and years ago, 2D gaming environments, were not even trying to simulate a 3D world, this was before the advent of 3D gaming. So basically 2D was used to create a make believe 3D world, because the technology wasn't pervasive or widespread. So games like Baldur's Gate, Resident Evil, and Onimusha, used a these techniques, but their overall impression was saying this is a 3D game. Now, this is different than say an old 2D side scrolling game or an old 2D fighter like StreetFighter, these games werent simulating 3D. Today or in this generation of consoles, a 2D game tries to create a 3D environment, a la Onimusha or Resident Evil, demonstrates a lack of knowledge in 3D gaming and lack of familiarity with the hardware platform.

So, take Onimusha for instance. The PS2 hardware hasn't changed, we know it is capable of 3D environments of course. But when Onimusha was released the developer probably had no experience with 3D programming and how to accomplish it with the hardware. Same thing in the case of Resident Evil and Gamecube. Of course this wasn't the case with so many XBOX games, because the PC architecture and programming status quo, was extremely comfortable with 3D games.

So, to your question, games that use 2D techniques to portray a 3D gaming environment are technologically passe, so now Onimusha and Resident Evil are finally becoming 3D, because the developer now has presumably gained that expertise and level of comfort with the hardware.

Now, to the extent that this is an issue of style or artistic taste, take the Capcom V Marvel games, or Viewtiful Joe, for instance, I can applaud or at least understand this. So, in short, unless it is a style decision, there is no reason a 2D techniques should be used to create a false 3D environment, given the state of the hardware and programming knowledge.

[Nissian X]

I'll tell you why:

1. Most VGR members own more than 1 console. How can you mindlessly bash a console that you own?

2. All the consoles now have well rounded libraries. You can't diss the Kitty Cube because it has several super violent games. You can't diss the PC-in-a-Box because it has several exclusive games. You can't diss the BS2 because it has several games that look every bit as great as the "superior" consoles.

I predict that System Wars will continue to die down for the next year. Then as we get rumors and specs of the next gen. consoles things will pick right back up. And once the next gen. consoles are released System Wars will return to it's mindless console flaming origin. The new consoles will only have a handful of launch titles therefore making them susceptible to insults of their lacking libraries.

Only then will System Wars be returned to all its glory. Flame on my VGR friends...
I don't think it'll take too long for SW to really heat up again, or at least I hope it doesn't.

Think of we debate about on System Wars for a minute.........pretty much just games for all the consoles, right?

Obviously, we originally debate about which console is better, hense the forum name "System Wars", but now we're just backing up are arguments all the time by comparing the games the companies release for their consoles, and I guess the sales of the consoles as well, but not as much.

We haven't had much to talk about because there hasn't been any impact games that are being either released or exposed for all three consoles or at least two simutaneously.

Don't get me wrong, Ninja Gaiden IS an impact game and all, and we have been talking about it, lots of the recent threads are about the game, it's just there really isn't all that much currently happening for the other platforms, once we get some of that going on, there will be more traffic coming through here, guaranteed.

[Darwin]

I love it, Slade compares Ninja Gaiden to Onimusha and DMC, I love it. I would tend to garner that guys who even have PS2 and enjoy it, who indeed enjoyed DMC and Onimusha, would have the honesty to say Ninja Gaiden is on another level compared to those games.

I've played through and beaten both Onimushas and Both Devil May Cry's, and am about 2/3 through NG. So, let's see how they stack up.

At first, especially the first level, NG seems a lot like Onimusha. I made that comparison myself as an initial impression. However, NG really begins to differentiate itself from Onimusha. Firstly, the non-boss characters in NG are much tougher and much more versatile than Onimusha. Secondly, the game allows you to beat enemies in a variety of ways. There are very different tactics to use depending upon your weapons choice, however there seems to be no "correct choice" when it comes to weapons. Go to gamefaqs and see people respond to the "How do I beat _____" posts. You'll get 5 different answers and each person swears their method is the best. The weapons in Onimusha (especially the first one) did not significantly differ in their fighting styles, at least not to the extent that NG does. Thirdly, the fighting engine is far deeper in NG than Onimusha. There are probably 50 different combos that Ryu can perform from his arsenal of different weapons.

Ironically, I had a much harder time with bosses in Onimusha thatn NG. I think it's because NG allows for more diversity to beat bosses, and the non-boss enemies are so challenging that it forces you to become skilled.

[Darwin]

Originally Posted by yacobschlomo
I rarely use blocks and counters on any enemies.

Could be why you were having a hard time with it.

That's pretty funny. Actually, Slade is right. You gotta mix in a good amount of blocks and counters or else you'll be driking elixers like an alcoholic. I use block more than any other move in the game.

[yacobschlomo]

Actually Darwin, the only time I block is when I'm surrounded on all sides. In which case I block for a bit a roll out of the way until I get far enough away to launch an attack. I didn't mean to say that I don't use the block button (I use it quite a bit), but I rarely block and counter.

[no.1gamer]

It is just the natural evolution of in technology and progress in development techniques. Recently, before the explosive growth of 3D gaming, 2D gaming environments were used to "simulate" a 3D environment. Of course, years and years ago, 2D gaming environments, were not even trying to simulate a 3D world, this was before the advent of 3D gaming. So basically 2D was used to create a make believe 3D world, because the technology wasn't pervasive or widespread. So games like Baldur's Gate, Resident Evil, and Onimusha, used a these techniques, but their overall impression was saying this is a 3D game. Now, this is different than say an old 2D side scrolling game or an old 2D fighter like StreetFighter, these games werent simulating 3D. Today or in this generation of consoles, a 2D game tries to create a 3D environment, a la Onimusha or Resident Evil, demonstrates a lack of knowledge in 3D gaming and lack of familiarity with the hardware platform.

So, take Onimusha for instance. The PS2 hardware hasn't changed, we know it is capable of 3D environments of course. But when Onimusha was released the developer probably had no experience with 3D programming and how to accomplish it with the hardware. Same thing in the case of Resident Evil and Gamecube. Of course this wasn't the case with so many XBOX games, because the PC architecture and programming status quo, was extremely comfortable with 3D games.

So, to your question, games that use 2D techniques to portray a 3D gaming environment are technologically passe, so now Onimusha and Resident Evil are finally becoming 3D, because the developer now has presumably gained that expertise and level of comfort with the hardware.

Now, to the extent that this is an issue of style or artistic taste, take the Capcom V Marvel games, or Viewtiful Joe, for instance, I can applaud or at least understand this. So, in short, unless it is a style decision, there is no reason a 2D techniques should be used to create a false 3D environment, given the state of the hardware and programming knowledge.

I just don’t see pre-rendered backgrounds as an outright bad thing. Even the best 3D games can be painfully obvious that you’re looking at computer generated backgrounds. Resident Evil and Resident Evil 0 look like you’re watching a movie or viewing a photograph. There is a level of realism that is just not possible with full 3D environments.

Everyone here knows that the only reason you’re disagreeing with me is because the Xbox doesn’t have any games that can compare to the RE games. And your comments on different hardware for each console shows off your blatant Xbox fanboyism. Are you being serious? Dude, all developers have been designing in 3D for the last dozen years. Way before any of the current consoles were around. You shouldn’t dismiss pre-rendered backgrounds without looking at the benefits first.

[Deathstroke]

Gah, those of you think that this is a reinvention of the genre seriously need to go back and experiment with the combat in Onimusha. As it stands, the pace of the combat in Ninja Gaiden is way too slow to compare to DMC. You can compare it to Onimusha though. As for different weapons that affect strategy, Onimusha and DMC have those too. Or have you forgotten about the spear, the arrows, the hammer, the gun and the variant armors in Onimusha 2. As for length, how many of you actually finished every scenario in Onimusha 2? Ninja Gaiden is done the first time you play through it. Not to mention the various different characters you can get on your side in Onimusha 2. And I'm not even going to go into the different necklaces and their powers.

Sorry, combat may be deeper in NG but it isn't a re-invention of the genre... not even close as the system is heavily based on Onimusha. I know that may seem like blasphemy to an X-bot like Daman but it's time you accepted the truth.

Oh and since you like hanging on my every word Daman, here's something for you to ponder. My original quote:

Quick Edit: I played Ninja Gaiden and well, whoever said its combat was akin to Onimusha was right. The game is basically like Onimusha with a jump button. It's not so much like DMC because the emphasis in that game was air juggles and run n' gun combat. The combat of Ninja Gaiden is based more on blocking and counterattacking. It's strategic and all but I'd still give Viewtiful Joe the best action game of this generation award.

Somewhere along the way, you seem to have gotten it into your head that I was flaming Ninja Gaiden. How oh how could that have happened? But wait, I have an answer for you too. It happened because you're a rabid X-box fanboy that can't see that your favorite games get their influences from games on the PS2. I know it's a hard concept to grasp but grasp it you must. It'll only help you grow as a person and maybe then you can stop putting words into other people's mouths.

Once again, Me=Teh Winnah!!! What is this, the fiftieth thread I've schooled you in?

["The Game"Evolution]

As I recall, you were a big fan of Devil May Cry and Onimusha, am I not correct. So, granted I'm a fanboy, and when I say Onimusha sucks, i'm just being a fanboy. But seeing as how you liked the series. Tell us what you think about Ninja Gaiden compared to those two games, hell you may as well throw in Tenchu and Shinobi on PS2 as well. Where does NG rank amongst those games in your opinion?

And, I played Ninja Gaiden and Onimusha, I don't think they have much in common aside from the fact they both use swords. But ya boy Slade, thinks they have a lot in common. Who's on crack, me or him? I mean level design and interaction, weapons, enemies, combat, can you explain, what he won't or can't? Your words Daman.

Tenchu is the true Ninja game.Period.No other Ninja game can match this when it comes down to capturing the true essence of what a Ninja is all about.I still have the original on the PSX.Best Ninja game ever.Tenchu III looks to continue that tradition.But unlike the PS2's version you'll be able to get online with the Xbox's version.

Not to mention better graphics,extra characters to choose from,and extra levels on top of the use of online play.(Once again the Xbox's version kicks the crap out of the original version on the PS2)Ahhh co-op play with Ninjas? It gets no better than that.

Devil May Cry indeed was a hack and slash game.However the way Capcom combined alot of elements within the game it actually became the new standard of what action/adventure games should be.Onimusha is more a samurai game than a Ninja game.

Dont get me wrong,the first Onimusha was pretty cool.But lets face it the character itself have very little movement.Plus why does a game like this still have drab ass Resident Evil like Pre-rendered backgrounds? This game indeed was cool,but could've been so much better.I had Genma Onimusha on the Xbox.I liked it,but I expected alot more from it.

Shinobi for the PS2 was a joke.From start to finish.The game was a joke.Decent,but did you see anybody around here talking about it? Nope.Shinobi was nothing to talk about.A Ninja with a long ass scarf.LOL! All enemies would have to do is step on it and then kill him.Just like Nightshade,a waste of gamers time and money.Thats two big time games on the PS2 that smelled like pure unwashed ass.Plain and simple.

Ninja Gaiden to me has indeed raised the bar in the action/adventure genre like DMC did a couple of years ago.This game is more like the games of old.Non stop action,big boss battles,mid boss battles,great control,kick ass cut scenes,great graphics,great sound,and really challenging.The fact that Slade is even mentioning Onimusha and NG in the same sentence is indeed funny as hell.Slade is smarter than that though.He said it just to get a rise out of us.Thats all.

In the real world Ninja Gaiden is ten times the game Onimusha is.From start to finish.Yes Slade indeed is on crack and LSD and Angel dust,and speed if he things NG is Onimusha with a jump button.LOL! Hell I didnt see a ton of people talking about buying PS2's just for Onimusha.But we've seen and heard from alot of people when it came to Ninja Gaiden though didnt we? Yep.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

I'll tell you why:

1. Most VGR members own more than 1 console. How can you mindlessly bash a console that you own?




How can I mindlessly bash a console I own? Easy, just be very disappointed in the type of games for it, how the company behind the console has no idea to get and keep good exclusive games, and come to the realization that getting the "unnamed" console was a mistake.

[Rogue Bounty Hunter]

So tell me guys, is there only one way to play Ninja Gaiden, combat wise that is?


I don't think so. There have been a few strategies and advice on how to play it on these boards, but I've stuck to the way I've been playing the game, which is a little different from others yet works just fine. Also, there's a lot more weapons in the game than I thought, so gamers using different weapons will (have to) play the game differently.

["The Game"Evolution]

Good job self, you've shut everybody up.

I'll be back in like three weeks.

Comparing Onimusha to Ninja Gaiden is like comparing a fine New York strip to a tube steak.Ninja Gaiden is ten times the game Onimusha ever was.Not to mention I never saw the guy in Onimusha swinging from poles,running up walls,rallying up to 80 hit combos,or being able to jump on opponents heads.

But then again why are we paying attention to someone that doesnt even own an Xbox to begin with? You may have played it but you're a lloooooonnnnng way from making anyone believe that this game is even in Ninja Gaiden's league.Onimusha is a forgotten franchise.Onimusha 3 will be no different that Onimusha 2.Ninja Gaiden is the creme of the crop for now.Get over it lad.Smell ya later in three weeks.

[mandark]

Bob the Fish makes the best examples and comparisons as to why NG is not the reinvention of the genre and everyone has ignored him. I applaud your honest take on NG Bob just to show that your long arse post has not been in vain.

[Bob-the-Fish]

How can I mindlessly bash a console I own? Easy, just be very disappointed in the type of games for it, how the company behind the console has no idea to get and keep good exclusive games, and come to the realization that getting the "unnamed" console was a mistake.

Hell, I'll even name it. I own an Xbox but that hasn't stopped me from bashing it. I try to refrain from mindless bashing, but on the whole, it is far from my choice of greatest console of all time. I'd bash the PS2 as well. Every game has flaws or things that could have been done differently, some just fewer then others.

The thing about having the greatest game or console of all time and what not, is that it only takes a single new game to make everyone forget about the old one. Case in point, DMC was considered to be one of the greatest hack n' slash action games of all time. NG comes along and all of a sudden people think DMC is a poor excuse for NG's greatness. How long will it take for that next game to show up that becomes teh gratest game ev-ar?

[no.1gamer]

I just better not hear you brag about any PC game with a system requirement of 64 MB of RAM, Gadfly.

[EvilSonyCorpHenchman]

Bob the Fish makes the best examples and comparisons as to why NG is not the reinvention of the genre and everyone has ignored him. I applaud your honest take on NG Bob just to show that your long arse post has not been in vain.

That's true. I think it's because he and Deathstroke are gamers... that play games... as opposed to.. oh say, a technophile, that plays games.

[no.1gamer]

Plus why does a game like this still have drab ass Resident Evil like Pre-rendered backgrounds?

Take a look at gamerankings.com Evolution. Resident Evil has a score of 90.3%. So if this is "drab ass" then I guess Ninja Gaiden is "drab ass" as well with a score of 90.5% right? I guess you've set a pretty high standard then. Or perhaps you and daman both agree that pre-rendered backgrounds were great a year and a half ago. But now they it is completely obsolete.

I'm not trying to take away Ninja Gaiden's claim to fame. Especially considering that I haven't even played it yet. But stop trying to knock pre-rendered graphics.

[yacobschlomo]

Hey Bob, first off, I never claimed that NG was a reinvention of the genre or that it was innovative in any way. I merely said that it was superior to Onimusha 2 or Devil May Cry when considering the entire package. DMC was very good, but it falls short of NG when it comes to combat, enemies, and the level designs. Go back and try DMC again to see how these things compare to NG. Onimusha 2 doesn't even come close in these aspects. DMC was my favorite game in this genre until NG came along.

I think your statement about just using the block button and countering is somewhat incorrect. There are a number of enemies that will eat you alive if you simply stand in front of them and just block. The variety of enemies is one reason that this game is so good.

[Bob-the-Fish]

Hey Bob, first off, I never claimed that NG was a reinvention of the genre or that it was innovative in any way. I merely said that it was superior to Onimusha 2 or Devil May Cry when considering the entire package. DMC was very good, but it falls short of NG when it comes to combat, enemies, and the level designs. Go back and try DMC again to see how these things compare to NG. Onimusha 2 doesn't even come close in these aspects. DMC was my favorite game in this genre until NG came along.

Not trying to put words in your mouth or anything, but I was under the impression that some think that NG offers some serious changes to the hack n' slash action style we're familiar with. I don't see anything that idicates that is true. All they did was take elements from other games and polish them to a nice shine. Just like Halo, although that did bring FPS games into the limelight for consoles. NG is treading the path that DMC pioneered 2 years ago.

That's my problem with people bashing DMC while claiming NG is some amazing game. Considering many of the aspects are so remarkably similar, it seems wrong to dismiss an old classic because a prettier version has shown up.

I think your statement about just using the block button and countering is somewhat incorrect. There are a number of enemies that will eat you alive if you simply stand in front of them and just block. The variety of enemies is one reason that this game is so good.

Which are these enemies you speak of? The only ones I recall are the bone zombies with big axes and soldiers with machine guns. I'm really not seeing this massive vareity of enemies either. There are a couple that show up every once and a while, but other then that it's just various soldiers and those spiky armed guys. I guess it is a better vareity then DMC because that had about three different baddies, but really if you can take all those baddies down with the same combo how are they so different? For all their specatular AI, they seem to attack in very similar pattterns every time. All you need against human sized enemies (against which all you have to do is hold block) is open with a couple of those dive/slash attack, either by running on the wall or just jumping towards them. Then block till you can whip out the air juggle combo. Lather, rinse, repeat. That works against every single human sized enemy.

[yacobschlomo]

Not trying to put words in your mouth or anything, but I was under the impression that some think that NG offers some serious changes to the hack n' slash action style we're familiar with. I don't see anything that idicates that is true. All they did was take elements from other games and polish them to a nice shine. Just like Halo, although that did bring FPS games into the limelight for consoles. NG is treading the path that DMC pioneered 2 years ago.

That's my problem with people bashing DMC while claiming NG is some amazing game. Considering many of the aspects are so remarkably similar, it seems wrong to dismiss an old classic because a prettier version has shown up.



Which are these enemies you speak of? The only ones I recall are the bone zombies with big axes and soldiers with machine guns. I'm really not seeing this massive vareity of enemies either. There are a couple that show up every once and a while, but other then that it's just various soldiers and those spiky armed guys. I guess it is a better vareity then DMC because that had about three different baddies, but really if you can take all those baddies down with the same combo how are they so different? For all their specatular AI, they seem to attack in very similar pattterns every time. All you need against human sized enemies (against which all you have to do is hold block) is open with a couple of those dive/slash attack, either by running on the wall or just jumping towards them. Then block till you can whip out the air juggle combo. Lather, rinse, repeat. That works against every single human sized enemy.

I never did bash DMC, and I still think it's a very good game. Do you believe that DMC is just as good as NG?

As for the enemies (we need to come up with a list of all the enemies in this game cause there are so many of them):

Samurai Horsemen - could you block these guys? Cause I didn't really try to. I just tried to get out of their way completely.

Vigoorian Soldiers with Rocket Launchers- You need to attack these guys quickly. Blocking will do you no good.

Dinosaurs before Tentacle boss dude - You need to move fast against these guys. They'll kill you quickly if you try to stand and block.

Dinosaur Fiends in level 12 in the ice caves and magma caves

Regular Fiends in level 12 that shoot fireballs - these guys grab you and throw you if you just stand and block

Bugs in Aqueduct stage - they'll surround you and jump on you and take you down if you just stand still, block, and counter.

Skeleton Zombies - They'll mount you if you just block.

Purple Skeleton Zombies - Regular skeleton Zombies on 'roids.

Mini-Helicopters - which are pretty easy to kill though.

Floating Fiends in Monastery - if you stand and block they'll use their magic on you to lift you up and hit you

The Giant Fish - don't do much unless you swim in their way.

The Tanks - Do these count as bosses?

Sloth like thing in Ice caves - seemed to easy to be a boss

Electric Worms and Fire Worms - they have an attack that I don't think you can block

Some of these were pretty cheap enemies and some you don't encounter too often, but they still force you to change up you strategy. I don't know if some of these would be considered bosses or not either

[Bob-the-Fish]

I never did bash DMC, and I still think it's a very good game. Do you believe that DMC is just as good as NG?
Actually, yes I still consider DMC to be as good a game as NG. The character design and style of the game is leaps and bounds ahead of NG. Just like Shinobi, DMC offers a different combat style from NG because of the lack of a block button. Because you can't block, you must constantly be on the offensive meaning much more action oriented combat. It's kill or be killed. In NG since you can block most enemies the combat is more about strategy instead of constant mayhem. NG is has very fast combat but in reality it is played much slower pace then either of those two games.

Nice list of enemies btw.

Samurai Horsemen - Yes most of their attacks can be blocked. I think they may still be able to drag you.

Vigoorian Soldiers with Rocket Launchers- Yes blocking rockets with a small piece of metal is not a good idea.

Dinosaurs before Tentacle boss dude - They're so slow it's really pointless to block, but I think you could block thier charge move.

Dinosaur Fiends and Regular Fiends in level 12- Haven't seen em yet. I haven't been gaming much this week with exams an all. I just killed the first worm without taking any damage though so I should be there soon.

Bugs in Aqueduct stage - Yeah, I just Ninpoed em all and dive attacked. They die quick :)

Skeleton Zombies and Purple Skeleton Zombies- and that is really annoying

Mini-Helicopters - The bats of the future... And I think if you're blocking you take only a tiny bit of damage. Could be wrong tho

Floating Fiends in Monastery - But you can block all their other attacks except for that spell thing.

The Giant Fish - You can't block under water anyway can you?

The Tanks, Sloth like thing in Ice caves and Electric Worms and Fire Worms- but they are osses because they have life bars

So it sounds like at least till you get to level 12, most of the standard enemies cannot hit you when you're blocking correct? I'm thinking all the soldier types (who each do have an unblockable move as well), those fiends with their little pointy arms and the ninjas. I'm not trying to say that you can just sit there for two hours and nothing can touch you, the combat is much to developed for that, but you can use the block button quite often to sit back and avoid damage then strike back. Not necessarily with a "counter" but I call the quick attacks when an enemy finshes his move a counter attack as well.

[yacobschlomo]

Actually, yes I still consider DMC to be as good a game as NG. The character design and style of the game is leaps and bounds ahead of NG. Just like Shinobi, DMC offers a different combat style from NG because of the lack of a block button. Because you can't block, you must constantly be on the offensive meaning much more action oriented combat. It's kill or be killed. In NG since you can block most enemies the combat is more about strategy instead of constant mayhem. NG is has very fast combat but in reality it is played much slower pace then either of those two games.

Nice list of enemies btw.

Samurai Horsemen - Yes most of their attacks can be blocked. I think they may still be able to drag you.

Vigoorian Soldiers with Rocket Launchers- Yes blocking rockets with a small piece of metal is not a good idea.

Dinosaurs before Tentacle boss dude - They're so slow it's really pointless to block, but I think you could block thier charge move.

Dinosaur Fiends and Regular Fiends in level 12- Haven't seen em yet. I haven't been gaming much this week with exams an all. I just killed the first worm without taking any damage though so I should be there soon.

Bugs in Aqueduct stage - Yeah, I just Ninpoed em all and dive attacked. They die quick :)

Skeleton Zombies and Purple Skeleton Zombies- and that is really annoying

Mini-Helicopters - The bats of the future... And I think if you're blocking you take only a tiny bit of damage. Could be wrong tho

Floating Fiends in Monastery - But you can block all their other attacks except for that spell thing.

The Giant Fish - You can't block under water anyway can you?

The Tanks, Sloth like thing in Ice caves and Electric Worms and Fire Worms- but they are osses because they have life bars

So it sounds like at least till you get to level 12, most of the standard enemies cannot hit you when you're blocking correct? I'm thinking all the soldier types (who each do have an unblockable move as well), those fiends with their little pointy arms and the ninjas. I'm not trying to say that you can just sit there for two hours and nothing can touch you, the combat is much to developed for that, but you can use the block button quite often to sit back and avoid damage then strike back. Not necessarily with a "counter" but I call the quick attacks when an enemy finshes his move a counter attack as well.

I liked the style of DMC more too. When I'm talking about level design, I mean how it affects the gameplay. I was not too impressed with NG graphically. I liked the way DMC looked more. However, in DMC I often got tired of the combat because it was basically the same thing over and over. NG mixes in a lot more gameplay elements than DMC had.

I think that its a good thing that you can easily block the normal enemies you encounter on each level. The game would have been way too difficult if you couldn't. The game does throw in the occasional enemy in each level to mix things up a bit. I think I've seen 15-20 boss type enemies and maybe another 20 or more other types of enemies through just 12 levels. Each one has different moves and attacks. You'll have to learn what you can block and what you can't block. The game allows you to beat enemies in many different ways (I personally rarely stay in one point and block). For me, this is the main reason I consider it a better game than DMC. It easily makes my top 10 list of next gen games so far. A list which includes DMC.

[yacobschlomo]

I had some free time on my hands because I couldn't sleep so I read some reviews for NG. It seems that a lot of the major gaming sites think that NG is the best game ever in this genre. An opinion that I agree with. Here are some qoutes:

“Not only does Ninja Gaiden feature bleeding-edge graphics and sound, it boasts simply the best pure action ever seen in such a game.” – Gamespot

“Even so, these instances are rare and only deter slightly from what is ultimately the industry's definitive action game.” – Tech TV

“Ninja Gaiden is simply the most polished and responsive action game we have seen so far this generation, and it's my belief it will likely remain so till the end. It fulfills the half-forgotten promise of the Xbox: to provide a gaming experience you can't get anywhere else. Sure, there are some games that you can point at and say, "That wouldn't be easy to do on PS2," but Ninja Gaiden is something the PS2 never even dreamt of. It would be coughing up blood trying to run a game with graphics this good, that moves this fast, at a constant 60 frames per second. And the gameplay backs that promise up, too; rarely have I felt so deeply engaged by an action game, no matter how much I'd been enjoying it. Castlevania had atmosphere, Rygar had level design, and Devil May Cry had cool. Only Ninja Gaiden has the whole package.” – Gamespy


“There is no perfect game, but there are those that come close. Ninja Gaiden sets a new standard for third-person action games in terms of length, depth, speed, and gore.” – IGN

“Get ready fellow Ninja’s, I’m about to tell you why Ninja Gaiden has not only raised the bar for Xbox games, but for almost the entire industry.” – Next Level Gaming

“Take everything you know about action games in the vein of Devil May Cry and imagine that someone held a knife to the balls of the programmers and said, "Come on, you can do better than that." To put it simply: there is no other game so far this generation that moves with the fluidity and grace of Ninja Gaiden when it comes to pure action.” – The Next Level

Is NG a re-invention of the genre? I don't think so. Is it just Onimusha 2 with a jump button? Far from it. What got me into the discussion was the latter statement. It was just something that I can't agree with now. It was actually something I was thinking myself after the first few levels, but I wanted to give the game more time before I drew any conclusions. However, Slade's comments do seem like bait to draw people in for a "discussion".

[Gadfly2317]

Wow! You Xbots have brain washed Gadfly! I can't believe he's bragging about multiplatform games in the Xbox's defense?!?! It's a false argument that you Xbots need to stop using anyway. The last multiplatform game I bought was 007 Everything or Nothing, and the WORST version was on the Xbox. Don't listen to them Gadfly! Save yourself!!!

And what is wrong with pre-rendered backgrounds Daman? I think that 2D backdrops can bring a level of photo realism unequaled by full 3D environments. Resident Evil and Resident Evil 0 are the 2 most atmospheric games of this generation. The level of detail in pre-rendered backgrounds is not possible with in full 3D. Plus the lighting effects blows any 3D game out of the water. Am I the only one who feels this way? It's also a nice change of pace from the countless 3D games that have been showing up the last few years. Viewtiful Joe was another welcome change in my book. RE4 will feature full 3D though. Are you guys feeling me on this one or am I alone? I hope developers will continue to use their creativity with 2 Dimensions. It has advantages and disadvantages over 3D of course. But why are you so anti-2D gaming Daman?


Dude, I am not brainwashed by anyone (except the "liberal media" that keep telling me to vote for Bush.) As much as the xbox made want to puke originally, its pulling its act together. Because of PS2 dominance, both xbox and gc have had to focus on their particular niches, and as a seeker of niche experiences, I'll admit I'm becoming an xbox fanboy.

But there's still the fact that I'm a GC whore because I haven't had this much fun gaming in years. Much as it stings, I'm a truth speaker, and when xbox has praise coming, I'm there. But I still think GC has the strongest, most fun, innovative gaming line-up I've played since the SNES. But yeah, bragging about multi-plats. This isn't a big thing. I've always said if you own one system (GC) buy the GC version--support good third pary games. I still feel that way--like Star Craft Ghost. The graphical difference is neglible, and the game play is the same I made the statement when my most recent gamecube 256 memory card was full. Buying a new gamecube

game (harvest moon) meant $44 plus mem card. I don't mind buying mem cards, but if there are multi-versions, and I can postpone a mem-card purchase. . . . there's no debate.

Let me assure you of one thing. . . of all the things I like about the xbox and its games, I am far from being persuaded away from my proclamation that the GC offers the best, most original, highest quality exclusive gaming experiences to be had on any console.

[no.1gamer]

Dude, I am not brainwashed by anyone (except the "liberal media" that keep telling me to vote for Bush.) As much as the xbox made want to puke originally, its pulling its act together. Because of PS2 dominance, both xbox and gc have had to focus on their particular niches, and as a seeker of niche experiences, I'll admit I'm becoming an xbox fanboy.

But there's still the fact that I'm a GC whore because I haven't had this much fun gaming in years. Much as it stings, I'm a truth speaker, and when xbox has praise coming, I'm there. But I still think GC has the strongest, most fun, innovative gaming line-up I've played since the SNES. But yeah, bragging about multi-plats. This isn't a big thing. I've always said if you own one system (GC) buy the GC version--support good third pary games. I still feel that way--like Star Craft Ghost. The graphical difference is neglible, and the game play is the same I made the statement when my most recent gamecube 256 memory card was full. Buying a new gamecube

game (harvest moon) meant $44 plus mem card. I don't mind buying mem cards, but if there are multi-versions, and I can postpone a mem-card purchase. . . . there's no debate.

Let me assure you of one thing. . . of all the things I like about the xbox and its games, I am far from being persuaded away from my proclamation that the GC offers the best, most original, highest quality exclusive gaming experiences to be had on any console.

Well thank God! I was worrying about you man. I think you need to spend less time over on the Xbox boards and come back to the Gamecube forums.

And for the record I will admit that Ninja Gaiden is a killer app. for the Xbox. It sounds great and I'd really like to play it. But what really sets it apart from the rest of the Xbox library is that it's exclusive. If Microsoft can manage to not get greedy and let it be ported elsewhere, they have my respect. So the Xbox now has 2 games I would like to play (the other being Panzer Dragoon Orta).

And don't worry about the future of the Gamecube Gadfly. I suspect that at this E3 Nintendo will announce its next AAA game. Donkey Kong? Another Zelda? And best of all, we'll be playing it soon after the announcement. Unlike over hyped games that are unveiled 3 years before they're released to retailers (DOOM 3), Nintendo delivers.

Hey, with all my Nintendo fanboyism I'm starting to sound like NintendoMan. Whatever happen to that guy?

[Bob-the-Fish]

I had some free time on my hands because I couldn't sleep so I read some reviews for NG. It seems that a lot of the major gaming sites think that NG is the best game ever in this genre. An opinion that I agree with.

I am tempted to agree. I do like Ninja Gaiden, but I must stand by my original "review." What NG makes up for in with all its splendor, it looses with depth. Not saying most other games in the genre have this depth I speak of, but some make a better job of it the NG.

The biggest downfall in this depth thing for me I did mention in that earlier, ridiculously long post. It is not the combat. That has enough depth, with variable weapons and combos for each and the different combinations of the two on different enemies. Even though it is possible to get by quite nicely with only one of them, there is certainly not a lack of depth in combat if you want it. Nor is it length. Granted they stretch the game out immensely for your average gamer who will die at least a hundred times before even entering the catacombs beneath the cathedral, so an hour of play time requires 6 hours of real time. That's not all bad though, and pretty much every action game does it.

Amazingly enough, it is the actual presentation that Izuu Drops the game right off it's pedestal. The environments look great but they are so stale. Nothing happens or changes. No stir of wind passes through the narrow streets. Shadows don't flicker about in the dark tunnels. Water doesn't even ripple with your passage. You can swing your sword at that wooden table all day, but it ain’t going to make a scratch.
I was blown away by the outdoor sequences on the airship because something was actually happening in the background. You see a rat or a raven here and there, but otherwise it seems the world is only populated by an endless stream of ninjas and demons. At least the few little corridors you get to see of it anyway.

What makes the environments really seem like fantastically painted 3-D cardboard cutouts though, is the fact that you can’t go anywhere. When I think “ninja” I think running swiftly and silently on roof tops looking for the most stylish way to spring down in the midst of a patrol and slice them all into little tiny pieces, before disappearing though a window to pop out and surprise the next batch who shows up to investigate all the blood running down the street. I don’t think jog down narrow street towards enemies while they shoot at me just so I can go through that door behind them. Ninjas don’t use doors! The way the game is designed, you can only do it the way they want you too and everything is scripted out.

This complete lack of environmental interaction in this day and age really takes a lot out of the experience for me. Even more so then the pathetic plot. I know they wanted to pay tribute to the oldschool game and its style of play, but all they ended up with is a side scroller in 3-D. I want an action game that rewards my intelligence as well as the dexterity of my thumbs. I don’t rate NG higher then any other hack n’ slash because all it is is another hack n’ slash.

Wow, that one turned out to be pretty long too. Maybe I should write a book :D

["The Game"Evolution]

Take a look at gamerankings.com Evolution. Resident Evil has a score of 90.3%. So if this is "drab ass" then I guess Ninja Gaiden is "drab ass" as well with a score of 90.5% right? I guess you've set a pretty high standard then. Or perhaps you and daman both agree that pre-rendered backgrounds were great a year and a half ago. But now they it is completely obsolete.

I'm not trying to take away Ninja Gaiden's claim to fame. Especially considering that I haven't even played it yet. But stop trying to knock pre-rendered graphics.

First off Ninja Gaiden doesnt have pre-rendered backgrounds that doesnt move with the character.Resident Evil from the good old days did.Same with Onimusha.I never claimed that pre-rendered backgrounds was cool for me.I mean lets face it Resident Evil Code Veronica was so damn nice to look at.Why? Because finally we had a Resident Evil game that actually looked 3D when your character walked through each and every level of the game. Ever since there hasnt really been many Residents since like that.Hopefully this next installment will bring that back.

Plus you cant take Ninja Gaiden's claim to fame.Because everyone is talking about it.When was the last time everybody was buzzing about a Resident Evil game? Been awhile hasnt it? Sure has.How these games scored in gamerankings has no bearing on this thread at all lad.

[no.1gamer]

First off Ninja Gaiden doesnt have pre-rendered backgrounds that doesnt move with the character.

I knew that Ninja Gaiden doesn't have pre-rendered backgrounds. I've even commented on that in some of my posts. You should read my posts before replying. I'm not trying to diss NG in any way, shape of form.

When was the last time everybody was buzzing about a Resident Evil game?

Actually everybody is buzzing about Resident Evil 4 right now.

How these games scored in gamerankings has no bearing on this thread at all lad.

I was using gamerankings.com to point out that Resident Evil (REmake) scored just as well as the game you're currently bragging about. You're trying to knock a game that is clearly a quality title. Pre-rendered backgrounds can be very effective if the developer knows what they're doing.

["The Game"Evolution]

I knew