Poll: what combo makes for a great game??

[Jasmania]

What element or combination of elements make a game great, in total or great in spite of it's limitations.
Lets start with these five elements...Gameplay, Visuals, Storyline, Innovation, Theme.

In what order do you rank the elements that contribute to a great (or even just good) game.

Here are some of my personal illustrations.
HALF-LIFE-a game that hit on all marks-groundbreaking visuals, great gameplay, intriguing storyline, innovative for all FPS that followed and a first in FPS themes.
THIEF-average visuals that didn't matter because the theme and storyline were so original.
Innovative in so many ways and the first of the true stealth based games.
OUTCAST-so-so graphics generated on a voxel graphics engine, but innovative because of the wide open game world. I thought the gameplay and storyline were wonderful...except the ending.
HIDDEN & DANGEROUS-Blocky graphics and a slew of bugs on initial release, an average, episodic storyline, and addictive gameplay paired innovative options for it's time.
(using disguises, picking up & using and keeping any weapon, stealth or run & gun style
and a great squad based combat theme that was among the first of the WWII genre so popular now.
MDK & MDK2-a quirky, hilarious storyline that drove the gameplay in both games Great sniping segments and frenzied combat to balance the narrative elements.
SERIOUS SAM-Graphic-OK, Storyline-what storyline???, Theme-"yawn" another FPS....Gameplay-OH MY GAWD!!.... Innovation-had there ever been a game to put so much on the screen with out crashing your system??? A pure orgy of wanton destruction and desperation. Kill, kill, die, die.
X-COM:ENFORCER-A pure console themed game that has become a guilty pleasure because it's so much fun!!! No storyline to speak of, average visuals, nothing innovative, gameplay that is as addictive as crack..or so I hear.
And the list goes on...MAX PAYNE....DEUX EX....TOMB RAIDER....

You tell me. ;)

[Suicides-by-Steve]

What element or combination of elements make a game great, in total or great in spite of it's limitations.
Lets start with these five elements...Gameplay, Visuals, Storyline, Innovation, Theme.

In what order do you rank the elements that contribute to a great (or even just good) game.

You tell me. ;)

In my order of importance. Gameplay, Replay Value, Sound, Longevity, and then Graphics. Theme is of no importance to me... I play everything from Adventure Games, to Train Sims. If it's a good game, I'll play it. Same goes with innovation (if it's a tried and true, time-tested game), then I don't care if it's a rehash- it just needs to be good.

My all time favourite games. System Shock 2, Thief series, Neverwinter Nights, Doom, Baldur's Gate series, Combat Mission, Morrowind, Silent Storm, and TOCA 2. Thes e games are all wicked, and have kept me up for ages in the past.

[Aku]

System Shock 2: FPS, sneaker, survival, scary atmosphere, upgrade character, specialize character, upgrade equpiment, make things (mix chemicals, etc.), steadily unfolding sotry

Jagged Alliance 2: Tactical turn-based combat, good story, quests, non-linear, upgrade characters, specialize characters, hire and fire mercs, upgrade equipment, cool interface, hilarious dialogue

Rainbow Six series (all): FPS, tactical shooter, outfit your team, draw up plans, execute and refine plans, unique and fun locations, record and watch replays, optional single mission gameplay modes

These games all have multiple elements that make them fun, and allow the player to customize elements of the game (example: drawing up a plan in a Rainbow Six game with waypoints, go-codes, and rules of engagement, then watching your team execute the plan exactly as you drew it up is *cool*). There are other games I've played that have the same qualities, I've just kept the list short.

[Jasmania]

Replay value. Yeh, forgot to list that. Definitely a must for a great game. I've replayed my favorites, like Fallout 1&2 and Hidden & Dangerous at least two or three times so far.

One the subject of THEME, is there anyone that plays a particular theme exclusively, or almost so? I know one guy in my BF1942 clan that pretty much only plays WWII combat sims and old school RPGs.

[ShotgunShy]

In order of importance for me:

Gameplay, Storyline, Longetivity, Replay Value, Graphics, Sound

Couldn't care less about:

Theme, Innovation


Sound is least important to me because some of the best games I've played had no sound at all - besides PC Speaker - (the old Lucasarts and Sierra adventure games come to mind). And I've never asked whether the sounds in a game are good before playing/buying it.

[Jasmania]

Sound is an interesting element for me. It has never been a determining factor in my decision to purchase a game. I'm not overly critical of the sound in game as a general rule, however when the sound is good it does increase the atmosphere, depth and mood of the game. Probably the best example I can think of is System Shock 2. The sound in that game was always creepy and often downright disturbing. Directional sound with a good system is an asset for a tactical standpoint as it often gives you clues to the whereabouts of your adversaries. When sound is bad, it usually is more of an irritation than a game breaker. Bad voice acting is often my most common complaint. The one thing I can applaud about Unreal 2 which I'm playing for the first time is very good voice acting.
Personally I usually turn down the in-game musical score while I'm playing. especially in a more realistically themed game. I find that it can detract from the immersion in the experience and even interfere with the ability to hear the game sounds like footsteps. gunshots and dialogue.

[Aku]

Sound is an interesting element for me. It has never been a determining factor in my decision to purchase a game. I'm not overly critical of the sound in game as a general rule, however when the sound is good it does increase the atmosphere, depth and mood of the game. Probably the best example I can think of is System Shock 2. The sound in that game was always creepy and often downright disturbing. Directional sound with a good system is an asset for a tactical standpoint as it often gives you clues to the whereabouts of your adversaries. When sound is bad, it usually is more of an irritation than a game breaker. Bad voice acting is often my most common complaint. The one thing I can applaud about Unreal 2 which I'm playing for the first time is very good voice acting.
Personally I usually turn down the in-game musical score while I'm playing. especially in a more realistically themed game. I find that it can detract from the immersion in the experience and even interfere with the ability to hear the game sounds like footsteps. gunshots and dialogue.

Most people's attitude about sound seems to be that they don't care as long as the game doesn't have sound problems. Nothing kills a game faster than repeated cracking and popping, or the sound going out altogether. Mafia had this weird problem (also reported by others) where every sound in the game would be muffled except for footstep sounds, which echoed. It sounded like you were inside of a vacuum-sealed tin can. Fortunately, turning down the hardware acceleration fixed it.

I dread few things more than sound problems, because they are so freaking hard to diagnose. Is it the card, the drivers, the speakers, the Windows sound settings, just a bad game? One time recently I flipped when I noticed there was no sound at all when I was in Windows. What's going on? I was checking that the speakers were plugged in, rebooted the machine, checked the volume control....nope, it was just that my wife for whatever reason turned the speaker volume knob all the way down, lol.

Other great sounding games besides System Shock 2 include Undying (one of the best sounding games I have ever played), Baldur's Gate series and Planescape: Torment (for the voice acting), Vietcong (it really sounds like you're trudging through a jungle), and - ironically - Mafia (great ambient sounds really make the city come to life, plus a great soundtrack). I should also mention GTA 3, which deserves a lot of credit for all the music and voicework that went into those fictitious radio stations. Gotta love Pogo the Monkey! :)

[Aku]

I can't believe I left out Thief, as well as Half-Life. Two games that really raised the bar in the sound department.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

it was just that my wife for whatever reason turned the speaker volume knob all the way down, lol.

Those porn clips can be quite loud Aku! LOL ;)

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Yeah, I left out Ghost Recon on my list. Quite possibly the BEST first-person shooter I have ever had the pleasure of playing.

[Aku]

Yeah, I left out Ghost Recon on my list. Quite possibly the BEST first-person shooter I have ever had the pleasure of playing.

I finished GR and GR: Desert Siege last week. I'm only on the second mission of Island Thunder. I put that aside to go back to Rogue Spear, which I never finished. I've finished R6, Eagle Watch, Urban Operations, and Black Thorn, but I never finsihed RS. I was stuck on that annoying opera mission when I last left off (I think it's the hardest to complete of any mission outside of the final mission in R6). I picked it up again and finally figured out a plan to beat it, and am now on the last couple of missions. Raven Shield is now out in a gold pack with the expansion. That will be on my list, but I think I want to get Vice City and VC: First Alpha first.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

I finished GR and GR: Desert Siege last week. I'm only on the second mission of Island Thunder. I put that aside to go back to Rogue Spear, which I never finished. I've finished R6, Eagle Watch, Urban Operations, and Black Thorn, but I never finsihed RS. I was stuck on that annoying opera mission when I last left off (I think it's the hardest to complete of any mission outside of the final mission in R6). I picked it up again and finally figured out a plan to beat it, and am now on the last couple of missions. Raven Shield is now out in a gold pack with the expansion. That will be on my list, but I think I want to get Vice City and VC: First Alpha first.

Uh, I never liked Raven Shield one iota! They may have patched it now, but when I was playing it- it wasn't a problem for the enemy AI to fire through Smoke grenades, nor to make impossible shots with little or no aiming.

It's not too bad, but for simplicity I really liked GR. I'm surprised you actually finished the first mission on IT... man, I was getting pasted left, right, and centre!

As for the games in the R6 series, I've never actually played ANY of them... I wish I did, so I can't compare the two types of games (Raven Shield/R6 vs. GR), but as it stands Raven Shield (which is supposed to be the next in the R6 series- right?) doesn't really stand up to GR IMO. I find it plays more like a sloppy version of SWAT 3.

[Aku]

Uh, I never liked Raven Shield one iota! They may have patched it now, but when I was playing it- it wasn't a problem for the enemy AI to fire through Smoke grenades, nor to make impossible shots with little or no aiming.

It's not too bad, but for simplicity I really liked GR. I'm surprised you actually finished the first mission on IT... man, I was getting pasted left, right, and centre!

As for the games in the R6 series, I've never actually played ANY of them... I wish I did, so I can't compare the two types of games (Raven Shield/R6 vs. GR), but as it stands Raven Shield (which is supposed to be the next in the R6 series- right?) doesn't really stand up to GR IMO. I find it plays more like a sloppy version of SWAT 3.

I bought the original Rainbow Six Gold pack (R6, Eagle Watch, and the Prima guide) years ago at Costco. I brought it home and played it on my old P2 350, and thought it was the coolest game I'd ever seen. Outfitting your team, planning your missions, setting go codes, having your team breach doors and frag rooms. The mission settings were cool - small airfields, dams, amusement park rides, office buildings - and some were huge (some people complained that Rogue Spear had smaller maps than R6, which is mostly true). The fact that you couldn't save in-mission was actually a real plus for this game. When you finished a mission, you felt like you really accomplished something.

Rogue Spear and Urban Operations are both a lot of fun. In RS, you get cool and really tough missions like the opera house, and the 747 mission. Urban Operations has a great mission set in a subway station. Black Thorn is also really good, and has a train station mission that's very similar to the subway station mission.

On the whole, I like the gameplay of the Rainbow Six series better than GR. I like planning the missions beforehand, I like how you can really customize your team and there equipment (GR just has the stock kits). GR is more plan-as-you-go, figure it out on the fly. It's fun, but also frustrating and trial-and-error. It's a very good thing that they have in-mission saves in GR, because you need it (I limit my saves though - I only allow myself to save after I've achieved a mission objective, lol). I also like the settings better in Rainbow Six. Just a preference, but I like indoor settings = with rooms and hallways and catwalks and hidden passages - to large outdoor settings.

The first mission in IT was brutally tough. I finally beat it clean by leaving everyone in the field at the beginning, and sniping guys coming over the hill. Eventually, a whole bunch come over on the left side, and I take them out. Then I take out the ones down the hill to the left, and along the ridge . Then, up over the ridge to the next field, where there are four more. Move across the road to the next field where there are four or five more. Just using the sniper. Then up along the back slope overlooking the farm, snipe some more. Then move my sniper facing the opening to the barn and take out one of the guys inside. Then I send my two teams into the farm. Take control of one of them and lob some grenades inside the barn, flushing the rest of the guys out so my sniper can shoot them. Then controlling the sniper again, move him up along the ridge from the other side and sniper one or two of the guys in the big warehouse building. Then take one of my other teams and launch some grenades through the door. The last guy standing is always to the left of the door, so I peak around it and shoot him and the mission ends. But it took a lot of tries with something always going wrong and someone getting popped before I got it right.

But the toughest mission for me so far was the one in GR where you have to protect the tank as it rides through the town. I kept getting killed because I couldn't take my time and let the tank get ahead, or it would get destroyed. I finally figured out how to handle that one after many tries. That mission also had a bug where it would CTD when you were in town and tried to give orders to the B or C team. So, had to control every team manually, making it even tougher. It's the only GR mission where I expereinced any CTD problem of any kind.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

On the whole, I like the gameplay of the Rainbow Six series better than GR. I like planning the missions beforehand, I like how you can really customize your team and there equipment (GR just has the stock kits). GR is more plan-as-you-go, figure it out on the fly. It's fun, but also frustrating and trial-and-error.

You're talking about the saves and all, but honestly, I never really use them in GR, I find I don't need to. Maybe it's just the way I play... I'm pretty thorough and cautious in GR- but this doesn't really wash with me, nor is it convincing that this is the only reason between you using a lot of saves, and me not, considering you like to pre-plan missions in R6 with utmost precision (presumably). However... realistically, the best laid of plans, can, and often, do go awry, so the pre-planned approach that R6 endorses doesn't really convey perfection either. In GR things can be "pre-planned" in your mind, without needing the long drawn out process of actually doing it in real time. Things are dynamic on a battlefield, and I find that with games (such as Raven Shield ) they tend to get a little messy and slide toward micromanagement if your plans go "off the mark".

But the toughest mission for me so far was the one in GR where you have to protect the tank as it rides through the town. I kept getting killed because I couldn't take my time and let the tank get ahead, or it would get destroyed. I finally figured out how to handle that one after many tries. That mission also had a bug where it would CTD when you were in town and tried to give orders to the B or C team. So, had to control every team manually, making it even tougher. It's the only GR mission where I expereinced any CTD problem of any kind.

I used a couple Fireteams to clear the path for the Engineering Team to safely take out the tanks in the various town squares. There's also a little alleyway that you can enter in order to take out the tanks in the main square- way in advance of rounding the first corner (set of tanks) to the square where the action first heats up. This makes the rest of the level SO much easier, since the alleyway allows you basically unbridled LAW shots against low-amoured tank-skirts (the little metal thingies they have protecting the treads). 2 of the 3 tanks have their sides exposed to you. Only one is facing you straight on, and thats the one that you first encounter when you first round the corner into the square in question. You can take out the 3 tanks in the "final" square with relative ease, even before you hit the "first" encounter with a tank (if you get what I'm saying, and you missed the alleyway ;)).

As for your CTD- I have NEVER encountered a CTD playing that game. I have had other weird anomolies (such as not being able to install the game properly- even after doing so at an earlier time), but never CTD's in-game. Opps! I just remembered... Frostbite DID give me CTD's, but it was an unsupported mod.. Dropping my res to 16 bit, and turning off the mip-mapping solved the problem.

[Aku]

You're talking about the saves and all, but honestly, I never really use them in GR, I find I don't need to. Maybe it's just the way I play... I'm pretty thorough and cautious in GR- but this doesn't really wash with me, nor is it convincing that this is the only reason between you using a lot of saves, and me not, considering you like to pre-plan missions in R6 with utmost precision (presumably).

I didn't say I use a lot of saves, I just save after the completion of a mission objective. That's a lot? Unlike Rainbow Six, GR missions can be very long. If I play for twenty minutes and everything goes right up until the very end, when one of my guys gets popped by a stray tango from behind a boulder, I'm certainly not going to want to replay the whole mission over from the beginning. Things are a little more controlled in Rainbow Six. You know where the entrances and exits are. You know where the terrorists might be hiding. You can switch on your heartbeat sensor and all that. In GR, its very free-flowing. You shoot up that shanty town in Desert Siege, and there's no way of knowing if there's one more guy hiding out down there. So you send your team through there and one of them gets popped, or you go yourself - and careful as you are - you get popped. And like in Rainbow Six, the enemies do seem to have the uncanny ability to fire off the first shot after you've surprised *them*, lol (I suspect steroid use, and lots of coffee and cocaine). So, you can go back to the beginning, or back to the save point from the last completed objective. I prefer the latter, because I'm just impatient by nature. ;)


I used a couple Fireteams to clear the path for the Engineering Team to safely take out the tanks in the various town squares.

I meant the earlier mission, where you protect the tank through the ruined village, and you have to take out the two big artillery on the hills. The one you're talking about - yeah, that one was easy. I was able to take out all the enemy tanks long before my tanks got to the main square. Not all the GR missions need to be repeated over and over.

As for your CTD- I have NEVER encountered a CTD playing that game. I have had other weird anomolies (such as not being able to install the game properly- even after doing so at an earlier time), but never CTD's in-game. Opps! I just remembered... Frostbite DID give me CTD's, but it was an unsupported mod.. Dropping my res to 16 bit, and turning off the mip-mapping solved the problem.

Because it only happened in one mission, and after a certain point, I chalked it up to a game bug. A reinstall might even have cleared it up. No big deal.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

I just save after the completion of a mission objective. That's a lot?

HELL YEAH! You haven't played with me, Renzatic, or Moya yet!

You know where the entrances and exits are. You know where the terrorists might be hiding. You can switch on your heartbeat sensor and all that.

Gamey!! We turn off the radar. Crichton hates the radar feature!! Nothing is more visceral than never knowing where the next bullet is coming from! Now I see where the discrepancies stem from.

I meant the earlier mission, where you protect the tank through the ruined village, and you have to take out the two big artillery on the hills.

Yup, I know it now. RG and I finished that with radars off! Actually, we played it on "Kill All" mode... where we didn't have to do the objectives, but just kill all the enemies. It was a great fact that we could do that! It was hard, but very cool we could communicate through Roger Wilco as a team. That probably helped. However, that brings me to another point about GR... You can configure the game to be played in SO many ways... Co-op Multi-player, Death Match Multi-Player, plus three other modes single or multi-player modes (Recon, Objective, or Kill All). R6 does not do this, does it? :p

[Aku]

HELL YEAH! You haven't played with me, Renzatic, or Moya yet! Gamey!! We turn off the radar. Crichton hates the radar feature!! Nothing is more visceral than never knowing where the next bullet is coming from! Now I see where the discrepancies stem from.

Oh, brother. Even though I save after an objective, it doesn't mean I always need to restart from that save. I've finished missions without having to restart, and I've done a lot of missions where I made it through all the objectives up to the end before getting waxed. Like I said, the "perfect" mission isn't that important to me in GR, since I'm too impatient to go through a half hour's worth of repetition just to do the last part right, lol. And judging by your comments about Island Thunder mission 1, I don't think I'm the only one who has to go through a few tries to finish a mission! :p

Actually, the heartbeat sensor is more of a convenience than anything. It's easy to peak around corners without getting nailed by the enemy in Rainbow Six.

Yup, I know it now. RG and I finished that with radars off! Actually, we played it on "Kill All" mode... where we didn't have to do the objectives, but just kill all the enemies. It was a great fact that we could do that! It was hard, but very cool we could communicate through Roger Wilco as a team. That probably helped. However, that brings me to another point about GR... You can configure the game to be played in SO many ways... Co-op Multi-player, Death Match Multi-Player, plus three other modes single or multi-player modes (Recon, Objective, or Kill All). R6 does not do this, does it? :p

Rogue Spear with Urban Operations has these game modes: assault, lone wolf, terorist hunt, recon, defend, hostage rescue. :p Of course, that's single player. I still don't have the bandwidth for multiplayer. :(

[Aku]

Gamey!! We turn off the radar. Crichton hates the radar feature!! Nothing is more visceral than never knowing where the next bullet is coming from! Now I see where the discrepancies stem from.

BTW, I've NEVER used radar in GR. I've used the heartbeat sensor in Rogue Spear, because it's useful in all those close quarters. But in GR - nope. Although I probably should - with radar, my number of restarts would plummet. :p

[Renzatic Gear]

You're making me wanna play Ghost Recon again....good times, good times.

I especially liked that one time I snuck up on you from behind and kept one of my guys just to the north of you to force you into thinking I was still trying to flank you from that direction. I still remember the way your guy jerked around from you flailing the mouse around after I scared the living hell out of you. Oh man, that was fun..

Or that time we played Capture The Hostage...and instead of actually capturing the hostages I ended up positioning all my troops around them and sat in waiting for you to try and make the grab. Needless to say it was a total slaughter.

[Suicides-by-Steve]

Heh- Whoops, I meant Clancey not Crichton (I was thinking of that awesome helicoptor crash on ER the other day)... Don't watch the program ever, but that was worth stopping for!

The radar is for wimps! BTW Aku, it shouldn't really matter about your internet connection- just use SAWs- I don't care how laggy you are! You CAN'T possibly miss! That's another thing about GR- the weaponry is a tad more "explosive". I don't remember seeing any TOW's in Raven Shield. :p

Oh BTW RG I have the game still installed on my comp! I don't remember that... Must have been someone else. One of the funniest times I remember playing against you was when each of us played as snipers and talked smack back and forth to each other literally hours... Nothing was better than capping the other player when they made a wrong move. I seem to remember the game scores being ultra low.

The only time I jumped was when we were playing SS2 together... Man those model textures were UGGLLYYY! Even the player looked like a zombie!!

[Renzatic Gear]

Nope, those 2 scenarios actually happened..you just managed to convienently forget it so you wouldn't have to face the shame. ;)

Oh yeah! I also remember that time I scared the hell out of you in SS2. You were in the very first security room in the game doing...I dunno...standing there. I walk in, stand behind you and wait for you to turn around. Which you did, and then suddenly your guy started rotating left-right-left-right while you were (probably) smacking at the mouse and screaming like a little girl. :p

[Aku]

Heh- Whoops, I meant Clancey not Crichton (I was thinking of that awesome helicoptor crash on ER the other day)... Don't watch the program ever, but that was worth stopping for!

The radar is for wimps! BTW Aku, it shouldn't really matter about your internet connection- just use SAWs- I don't care how laggy you are! You CAN'T possibly miss! That's another thing about GR- the weaponry is a tad more "explosive". I don't remember seeing any TOW's in Raven Shield. :p

I was wondering what you meant by Crichton. Heh, why not just equip your Rainbow assault team with a tactical nuke? I can see it now, your team standing several blocks away from a big cloud of smoke where an office building used to stand, the female narrator intoning, "All terrorists neutralized, mission complete". ;)

[no.1gamer]

This may be a little off topic, but I'm sure many of you will agree with me.

I'm getting tired of the "you acquired the pistol" in video games. I mean come on, it's time to use a little more detail with the weapons. This worked fine with the original Doom but is this pistol I acquired a 9mm pistol or a 50 caliber Desert Eagle? There's a pretty big difference as getting shot with with a 9mm will be a minor setback but being shot with a 50 cal. Desert Eagle will blow off ligaments.

I mean it's hard to get excited about "acquiring the shotgun" because I've had that experience a dozen times already in other games. Is a 12 gauge? Is it loaded with slugs or what?

Are you guys feeling me on this one?

[Gamer88]

no.1 gamer
This may be a little off topic, but I'm sure many of you will agree with me.

I'm getting tired of the "you acquired the pistol" in video games. I mean come on, it's time to use a little more detail with the weapons. This worked fine with the original Doom but is this pistol I acquired a 9mm pistol or a 50 caliber Desert Eagle? There's a pretty big difference as getting shot with with a 9mm will be a minor setback but being shot with a 50 cal. Desert Eagle will blow off ligaments.

I mean it's hard to get excited about "acquiring the shotgun" because I've had that experience a dozen times already in other games. Is a 12 gauge? Is it loaded with slugs or what?

Are you guys feeling me on this one?

Games can only get so advance this generation. I'd rather them focus on the bigger parts of the game such as story then details like that. As consoles and games get better and better im sure you will get that but for now I don't think so.

[Jasmania]

Many of the recent & current games that are more hardcore combat sims do utilize more realistic weapon specs, real-world physics and ballistic models. This goes for the physics in the barriers and surfaces as well. Even in older games like Swat 3, RB6 and the first IGI game you could shoot through "soft" barriers like interior walls or wooden stairs & platforms. Admittedly, a lot of the sci-fi and straight up action shooters don't really care about these issues. Oh well, in many of these games it doen't matter. Who actually knows what the "real" physics of a Plasma rifle or Rail gun are anyway.... :p

[Suicides-by-Steve]

There's a pretty big difference as getting shot with with a 9mm will be a minor setback but being shot with a 50 cal. Desert Eagle will blow off ligaments.

I hardly think it matters if you're hit with different calibres in a game... The aim is to kill, not injure- it's irrelevant really... If you'd like pieces to come flying off, try Soldier of Fortune... that aught to slake your thirst for blood.

It may be realistic, but I think maybe in games, we should cap the amount of realism eventually. I'm playing for enjoyment, not to get desensitized so it makes it that much easiser to pull the trigger in the next real war...I dunno... I think games could stand to become a TAD bit more realistic, but accurately modelling various calibre vs armour protection for instance, while impressive, is overkill. If Black Hawk Down was made in such a manner, the amount of hollow heads, and missing limbs would be extreme.

However, I don't know what games you're playing these days, but I can only assume it's an Xbox or some other console... There have been HUGE levels of detail and accuracy put into weapon designs and selections. Everything from calibre, flash suppressors, and jacket casings have been modeled in PC gaming for literally YEARS. SWAT 3, R6, Ghost Recon, Silent Storm, Jagged Alliance and so forth have done a great job of mimicking different weapon calibres and ranges etc.

[Friend_Bear]

Gameplay and replayability are prime factors for me, after that goes longivity then graphics, story and least important to me is sound, however if the game is multi-player then to me is more important than graphics, a good multi-player mode can make or break a game.....

Other factors I *used* to consider when I was back in England with my network and gaming friends was multiplayer games since socialising and gaming were kinder important, especially if the games where a great laugh, i'm talking about some great times playing Battlefield 1942 and even Ghost Recon is great co-op, yet these games aren't that great single player.

[Jasmania]

I just got a cable modem about 2 months ago and since I own & run tw4 restaurants I pretty much work 12 -16 hours a day, 6 days a week. Due to these issues I have barely scratched the surface of the mutiplayer phenomenon. I guess that why it didn't occur to me to include it in my list of considerations. I can certainly see why it would be important to anyone that does play on-line.

What I wouldn't give for another 8 hours in each day!!! ;)

[Suicides-by-Steve]

even Ghost Recon is great co-op, yet these games aren't that great single player.

Pardon!? LOL I say **** that statement! GR has one of the MOST versatile, entertaining single-player games out there! Especially as far as FPS's go... I hardly call the mindless slaughter of Serious Sam (for instance), a quality single-player experience...

[no.1gamer]

I hardly think it matters if you're hit with different calibres in a game... The aim is to kill, not injure- it's irrelevant really... If you'd like pieces to come flying off, try Soldier of Fortune... that aught to slake your thirst for blood.

It may be realistic, but I think maybe in games, we should cap the amount of realism eventually. I'm playing for enjoyment, not to get desensitized so it makes it that much easiser to pull the trigger in the next real war...I dunno... I think games could stand to become a TAD bit more realistic, but accurately modelling various calibre vs armour protection for instance, while impressive, is overkill. If Black Hawk Down was made in such a manner, the amount of hollow heads, and missing limbs would be extreme.

However, I don't know what games you're playing these days, but I can only assume it's an Xbox or some other console... There have been HUGE levels of detail and accuracy put into weapon designs and selections. Everything from calibre, flash suppressors, and jacket casings have been modeled in PC gaming for literally YEARS. SWAT 3, R6, Ghost Recon, Silent Storm, Jagged Alliance and so forth have done a great job of mimicking different weapon calibres and ranges etc.

Actually I haven't played the games you've mentioned (except Ghost Recon). I have played Call of Duty and Battlefield 1942 though. Those 2 games obviously have to feature authentic weapons because they're WW2 games.

007 games have always featured authentic weapons as well.